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"Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
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Conferences The Apprentice: Martha Stewart General Discussion Forum (Protected)
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DrKegel 430 desperate attention whore postings
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11-30-05, 11:44 PM (EST)
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"Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"

What is Jim thinking? Obviously he's not. Master of the game? What?!!!! In tonight's episode he just showed how stupid he actually is. He not only projects, but he has to display his "brilliance" to people that are not there to play games. Earth to Jim: These execs are looking to HIRE someone! Take the D&D outside, buddy! But like all game players that distance themselves from reality, he thought he made a good impression. He had no idea that all he displayed was his arrogance.

Dawna hit the nail right on the head when she said that Jim was the weak one. That really is what game players are all about. They turn things into a game because it dehumanizes the opponents and then there really are no rules since the people are no longer human, but just opponents. The fact that the others are not playing just never occurs to them. Once they drive all the strong "humans" away, it leaves them with their fantasies to "mentor" (manipulate) the weaker minds into doing what they want. Really sickening.

In a previous post about Jim giving Marcella a pep talk, I stated he was doing this and it had nothing to do with Jim being a nice guy. I don't know why viewers continually assign to Jim characteristics that he clearly does not have a handle on. Tonight's episode was proof of this and more. And notice how Jim didn't just leave it that HE was playing a game. No! His fantasies lead him to believe EVERYONE ELSE is playing this game! Right on, Jim! Is that new baby you had in on this game conspiracy? Now when the baby cries, remember he's just manipulating you! Don't fall for it! I swear, I fully expect Jim's fantasies to blossom and explode into wearing vampire teeth in the next episode.

Game players are just so weak and tonight it was evident. It's what always eventually happens. Their arrogance and lack of humanity always do them in.

I now have a winner. I am backing Dawna.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... rayna1 12-01-05 1
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... volsfan 12-01-05 2
   RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... Wacko Jacko 12-01-05 3
       RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... volsfan 12-01-05 5
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... Reeflex7 12-01-05 4
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... DrKegel 12-01-05 6
   RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... Wacko Jacko 12-01-05 7
       RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... DrKegel 12-01-05 9
   RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... volsfan 12-01-05 10
       RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... PagongRatEater 12-04-05 11
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... bitchslap 12-01-05 8
   RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... singer 12-08-05 14
 RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... DrKegel 12-04-05 12
   RE: Jim just knocked himself out of... volsfan 12-05-05 13

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rayna1 20 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 08:50 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
I agree with you. I was really rooting for Jim but I don't think they will overlook his outburst at dinner...didn't Martha already tell him (or was it someone else?) not to think of it as a game?
Even though it is, he really should have piped down!!

I still love him though!

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 09:21 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
No matter how you look at it...this is a game. Now, whether you think Jim is playing the best game can be questioned. Sorry to say that humanity doesn't play a big role in the business setting.

The fact that Jim is still in the game says a lot to the way he has approached the game. We will have to wait and see how it plays out from here.

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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 09:36 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Jim is a nitwit. This is not a game for Martha. She is hiring someone to 'manage' one of her important projects. Martha herself already has an image problem so she wants to make sure whoever she hires is a classy person.

Jim is so stupid to call this a game. It is not a game but a competition. There is a big difference.

That being said, what Jim said yesterday did not matter in the long term. He was not going to win anyways. What Jim forgets is that everything he does is airing on national tv and if this show is like Donald's Apprentice the winner will be shown on live tv so if Jim makes it to the final two he would lose because Martha is without a doubt watching the show.

Jim can brag all he wants about how smart he really is, but he is a moron. It is all too bad because Jim has shown himself to have some smarts and is a very hard worker. This is all overshadowed by his arrogance and his manipulating ways. Jim's chances of winning.........0%.

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 12:46 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Maybe we are splitting hairs here but the definition of game based on dictionary.com is:

Game: A competitive activity

I am not defending Jim but he isn't as much of an idiot/moron than what I think everyone thinks. JMHO.

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Reeflex7 187 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 11:46 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Jim's comments were stupid on so many levels.

He basically just told Charles that he was manipulating them in the boardroom by pumping up weaker players and hammering stronger ones. So in other words, he's been less than honest.

This "strategy" he has does not exactly portray him as a team player and as someone to be trusted within a department or company.

He admitted to taking the "game" aspect more seriously than the "interview" aspect, which has to be insulting to Martha and Charles, who have taken the "interview" process VERY seriously in deciding who to fire.

Finally, his comment as they transitioned away from the dinner...something to the effect of "you guys are all bastards, I'm going to kill you later"...yes, it was a joke, but I still thought it was inappropriate for what basically a chance to impress an executive who'd never met you before.

He shot himself in the foot and his comments WILL come back to haunt him in the conference room. Easily the dumbest thing he's done all season.

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DrKegel 430 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 01:58 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
volsfan

> No matter how you look at it...this is a game. Now, whether you think Jim is playing the best game can be questioned. Sorry to say that humanity doesn't play a big role in the business setting.

No, this is NOT true! You say, "NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT," completely eradicating and obliterating the possibility that someone will see this as NOT a game and as something else. In holding this viewpoint, you are basically doing the same thing that Jim is doing in taking this narrow "projecting" type of view that relies upon EVERYONE seeing and interpreting something as you do. If we expand upon this hypothesis we can go into the absurdities of this, in that, if you vote Republican or Democrat or whatever, EVERYONE MUST do this. Or if you are a certain religion, EVERYONE must be believe this way. Or if you are in love with a certain person, then EVERYONE must find this person attractive and be in love with him/her also. People see things in a myriad of ways.

At the base of this, Jim KNOWS this is not a game and negates that whole hypothesis when he says that "HE IS DOING THIS FOR HIS FAMILY!" Now is his family a game also? Is he playing a game with his wife? Or does he understand that the job one has affects the real and substantial things in his life? If he understands this, and we can see that he does by saying this, then he understands that the other "PEOPLE" (AS IN HUMAN BEINGS) are going to be affected in this way also. But Jim is weak and cannot confront people on their own terms as in going toe-to-toe with them so he dehumanizes the HUMAN BEINGS into being disposal commodities. Pawns in his game! If we look at it in this way, we can see it's all about CONTROL. That's what Jim is really doing. He cannot control human beings, but he believes he can control the game.

>The fact that Jim is still in the game says a lot to the way he has approached the game. We will have to wait and see how it plays out from here.

This is not true either. It's just the way you're viewing this fact through the narrow perspective of this HAVING TO BE A GAME. Jim may be there because he has real talent that is very apparent on some tasks. It may also be because someone else was more to blame for a task failing and therefore eliminated because of their own actions and not his actions. And it may well be that playing the game has now effectively knocked Jim out of being the winner he would have been if he had not played this as a game!

>Maybe we are splitting hairs here but the definition of game based on dictionary.com is:
Game: A competitive activity

Yes, we are splitting hairs because again there may be other "COMPETITIVE ACTIVITIES" that are NOT a game, but a game can be only ONE CATEGORY OF A COMPETITIVE ACTIVITY!

>I am not defending Jim but he isn't as much of an idiot/moron than what I think everyone thinks. JMHO.

Hey, you're just stating what you believe just like everyone else is. That's what makes this a discussion and not a game and is the purpose of this forum. Now if you were saying this just to get a reaction from people, or saying this because you were playing a certain role, then it would not be a discussion and you would be playing a game.

--------------

Reeflex7

>Jim's comments were stupid on so many levels.
He basically just told Charles that he was manipulating them in the boardroom by pumping up weaker players and hammering stronger ones. So in other words, he's been less than honest.

You made so many good points and I agree with all of them. And then there's the very certain reality that when the show stops, Jim's thinking has been exposed to everyone. He'll then have to constantly explain to the people he works with or people he works with in the future if he'll continue this strategy.

Unbelievably stupid doing this!

----------------

Wacko Jacko

>Jim is a nitwit. This is not a game for Martha. She is hiring someone to 'manage' one of her important projects. Martha herself already has an image problem so she wants to make sure whoever she hires is a classy person.
Jim is so stupid to call this a game. It is not a game but a competition. There is a big difference.

Exactly!!! There is a huge difference!

I just wonder when Jim's kids are growing up if he'll like it when people mistreat them in certain situations because "it's just a game!"

When people feelings are involved, it's not a game. When people's families are involved in terms of putting food on the table, it's not a game. Further, it's not a game until all the participants have agreed it's a game and are playing by the same rules. Playing a game with someone that is not even playing a game is stupid, cruel and reflects badly on the person inflicting the game upon others.

Oh, and one more point on this entire subject, the reason that businesses are so dehumanized is because behavior like this often drives people not playing games and having strategies out of the workplace. Remember Dawna crying for having to castigate someone in the boardroom? She stated she doesn't like to do this. And she didn't lie or make something up about them as part of a strategy. Just told the truth. This is an example of someone that is human and not playing a game.

>Jim can brag all he wants about how smart he really is, but he is a moron. It is all too bad because Jim has shown himself to have some smarts and is a very hard worker. This is all overshadowed by his arrogance and his manipulating ways. Jim's chances of winning.........0%.

Exactomundo! Like I said earlier, Jim is talented. He has a lot to offer, but who the heck would care? Jim could easily make it on those very real skills he possesses and that is why I feel he's still in the running.

------------------

Now as to that task last night ... what the he!! was Leslie thinking?!!!!!!!! That table did look like an unmade bed! I thought they'd use a little bistro table with a chandelier hanging down over it. A menu on the table that would actually be an advertisement for the car. Maybe have a little coffee maker/cappucino (like that one they just sold - must have more than a few left over) to serve the customer. Then the table could have been used for the salesperson to sit down with the customer and give the sales pitch. But as it was .... ??????

Didn't Leslie also design that horrid hotel room? She has no taste whatsoever. I also get the feeling that Martha wanted Ryan to take control even if he isn't project manager. Probably that's what did Amanda in also. That if the project manager is weak, a strong player should just take the reins and make the team into a winning one. I'm finally getting this. DUHHHH!!!!

And Marcela? I felt like Martha was talking to an errant child and not someone interviewing for a job. Marcella is a mess as far as being a leader goes. She really is adorable and has a lot of charm, but come on! She contributed nothing. And Leslie was mealy-mouthed. When Martha said playing on the internet was petty, Leslie should have piped up with, "It would normally be petty, but when you have just two days to complete an enormous task, it becomes crucial to a team winning or losing as how a team member uses their time." And why didn't Leslie bring up the fact that Marcela couldn't even manage to pick up carpeting? What was Marcela doing exactly? I didn't notice any carpeting in the showroom so was this task completed? The other team had it. So if Marcela couldn't FIT THIS INTO HER VERY TIGHT SCHEDULE (sarcasm), why the he!! didn't Leslie say that when Charles asked about giving her tasks to keep her off the internet?

I feel that Leslie was thrown off her game by Alexis, Martha and Charles agreeing Ryan's idea was a good one. I think that Leslie was going to try to go in that direction. That's why she hadn't thought through all that Marcela didn't do. And why she said to look at her record when it was the same as Marcella's. She didn't really collect her thoughts and it came out wrong when Marcela actually was as horrendous on this task as on the others.

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Wacko Jacko 2434 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 02:43 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
LAST EDITED ON 12-01-05 AT 03:19 PM (EST)

The whole game thing is an interesting question. It really depends on ones role in the show. For Jim it may be a game, but it aint a game to Martha Stewart or anyone working at her company. THe person that is selected will be an executive for her company....it is not simply a cash prize. For Jim it may be a game, that is if he doesn't really view working for Martha as a career. That tells you all you need to know about Jim.

See, in Survivor although people's feelings are involved it is still a game to everyone involved. You can chose to treat it as one. Some have won using that approach. But on the Apprentice...it is not a game for all those involved and Jim fails to see that it is not a game to those making the final decision.

Let's just say this is Survivor, even there by announcing your strategy to everyone would still be considered stupid. Jim has said more than once that he is invinceable. He is really starting to believe this and has ultimately done himself in. Again Jim could have a 20% chance (or better) to win at this point but instead it is now 0%.....he has no chance in hell of winning now. Since this is all taped I hope Jim is shaking his head now in regrets watching himself act like a nitwit on national tv. He blew it and embarrassed himself....the guy had talent and didn't have enough confidence to let his talent do the talking instead of his mouth.

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DrKegel 430 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 05:09 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Wacko Jacko

>The whole game thing is an interesting question. It really depends on ones role in the show. For Jim it may be a game, but it aint a game to Martha Stewart or anyone working at her company. THe person that is selected will be an executive for her company....it is not simply a cash prize. For Jim it may be a game, that is if he doesn't really view working for Martha as a career. That tells you all you need to know about Jim.

Completely concur.

>See, in Survivor although people's feelings are involved it is still a game to everyone involved. You can chose to treat it as one. Some have won using that approach. But on the Apprentice...it is not a game for all those involved and Jim fails to see that it is not a game to those making the final decision.

I suppose I need to explain about this "feeling" thing. What I meant was that even if all parties agree it's a game, hurting someone's feelings in the process of playing the game is not nothing. In other words, the feelings are real and should be validated and not negated by saying, "Well, they can't really have been hurt because it's a game godd!!m it!" Yes, they can be hurt and often are. Now amplify this to someone playing a game with someone unaware a game is being played, like a man that preys on lonely, rich ladies so that he can bilk them. The whole purpose is to use their feelings towards him in order to do it.

And I would agree that Survivor, Big Brother, The Mole were games. And I am well aware some people's boundaries in playing these games vary. Some feel the lying is all right and others don't. I don't really have a problem with this as long as people take responsibility for their actions in the game.

>Let's just say this is Survivor, even there by announcing your strategy to everyone would still be considered stupid. Jim has said more than once that he is invinceable. He is really starting to believe this and has ultimately done himself in. Again Jim could have a 20% chance (or better) to win at this point but instead it is now 0%.....he has no chance in hell of winning now. Since this is all taped I hope Jim is shaking his head now in regrets watching himself act like a nitwit on national tv. He blew it and embarrassed himself....the guy had talent and didn't have enough confidence to let his talent do the talking instead of his mouth.

Completely agree again. There's no real reason that Jim was not qualified to be hired. He has talent, he's a hard worker, and he has lots of energy.

You know something has just occurred to me. While Jim has stated it's a game, I notice that when he chooses to not make it a game, it's somehow alright. Like when his baby was born. Remember him showing that guy the ultrasound? He didn't react for a moment and Jim said he probably wasn't interested in that sort of thing, but then he said that he was and that the ultrasound was just amazing. Now what if the tables had been turned on Jim? What if Jim revealing this Achilles' heel had been used to skewer him by trying to get under his skin by saying something nasty about the baby, Jim's wife or other child? Why wasn't this fodder to be used in the game if indeed it is a game? And why can Jim and no one else turn this game thing on like a faucet?

----------

bitchslap

>If Jim were smarter, he'd have heeded what Martha's said before about it NOT being a game, rather an interview process. It doesn't really matter whether or not there's game happening -- Martha has made it pretty darn clear that this is serious business to her. If Jim were smarter than the average used car salesman, he'd at least take his "game" way under the radar. Deep enough that Martha couldn't easily find it.
Everything he does is game. Even that heartwarming little pep talk. He believes he is king of this game, and it's easy to be magnanimous with people you view as subordinates.

Completely agree here also. If he just listened and attuned his game to the person deciding the game wanted it would have made more sense.

It's funny though that Dr. Will did the same thing in Big Brother. Remember how he almost blew the whole thing by giving that ridiculous summation of how he outsmarted everyone and the strategy he used to do so? He should have saved this for AFTER the prize was awarded! It's that bragging rights things that gets someone in trouble. Now Tina of Survivor has NEVER publicly stated how stupid Colby was and how she mentally whupped him. Now she's a true gamester and knows there will be no more games for her (or limited games) if she owned up to this. Therefore, people are probably pretty much sitting pigeons for her mental karate.

>He's played out more like either a guy who seriously needs some therapy before he's allowed to interface with customers again -- or a guy who's really serious about maximizing his 15 minutes of fame (what, TV whoring in reality shows?).

If this were a real-life interviewing process in any way, Martha would've written his letter a long time ago. No way a bull like that is getting into HER china shop.>

Well said.


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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 06:31 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Wow! You really like to analyze don't you? I like your ability to hypothesize how Jim and I view things in life just by my statement about this being a game.

Let me see if I understand this show:

1)People are competing for a job with Martha Stewart.

2)There are rules laid out by EPMB and the producers to make sure it is a fair competition.

3)The teams/people compete each week in tasks.

4)There is clear cut winner/loser each week.

5)There is going to be a final winner that will WIN a job with Martha Stewart.

You can call it what the heck you want to but I call it a game. I made the mistake by saying it "no matter how you look at it"...sue me. What do you call it?

I went over to dictionary.com and got the definitions for game and competition:

Competition: The act of competing, as for profit or a prize.

Game: A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules

I don't think I have come across you on the forums before so I will say WELCOME!


I finally blogged

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PagongRatEater 12973 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-05, 01:21 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
Well said Vols. Whether or not it is good to let the gamemasters know that you are playing a game is a different issue, but this competition is by definition a game. It could be more than that as well.

The only reason that nomenclature would bother anybody is if they thought that it being a game is a BAD thing, which I would certainly say is not the case at all.

Jim has probably destroyed his chances at winning not because he is willing to acknowledge out loud what every knows is true, it's a game and they are all playing it; that is obviously and inherently true. Just how many job interviews do you go on that involve creating and selling salad dressing or seeing if you can sell more than the other TEAM to take a step closer to getting the job? How many job interviews have you ever been on that involve teams at all?

This being a game is not a bad thing nor an endorsement or Jims view of the world. What WILL hurt Jimbo is his manipulation of the game, unethical strategies and a total lack of ethics AND bragging about said "skills." Still, he was right on one thing - this IS A game.

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bitchslap 5 desperate attention whore postings
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12-01-05, 03:27 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
If Jim were smarter, he'd have heeded what Martha's said before about it NOT being a game, rather an interview process. It doesn't really matter whether or not there's game happening -- Martha has made it pretty darn clear that this is serious business to her. If Jim were smarter than the average used car salesman, he'd at least take his "game" way under the radar. Deep enough that Martha couldn't easily find it.

Everything he does is game. Even that heartwarming little pep talk. He believes he is king of this game, and it's easy to be magnanimous with people you view as subordinates.

He's played out more like either a guy who seriously needs some therapy before he's allowed to interface with customers again -- or a guy who's really serious about maximizing his 15 minutes of fame (what, TV whoring in reality shows?).

If this were a real-life interviewing process in any way, Martha would've written his letter a long time ago. No way a bull like that is getting into HER china shop.

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singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings
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12-08-05, 08:07 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
LAST EDITED ON 12-08-05 AT 08:21 AM (EST)

In total agreement. Jim is annoying, not terribly smart, and certainly without class. What a dweeb.

Clearly, the process is a job interview, because Martha Stewart said that it is a job interview. Making the candidates think on their feet and win challenges is an excellent test of their mettle. It also helps Stewart figure out if the contestants are natively intelligent, which goes far beyond merely knowing how to write a budget or a business plan.

Contestants may use game theory to figure out how to impress her and to figure out how to win on tasks, but the entire process is simply a job interview--an unusual one, but nonetheless, a job interview. Stewart certainly reserves the right to set the parameters of that interview in any way that she chooses.

If she decides that Jim's cloying for advantage disqualifies him for the job, then it is her right to do so. His boorishness may not provide a proper fit for her organization. Somehow I am glad that this appears to be the case.

On another point, I get the impression that this show is not as staged as Trump's Apprentice has become. I'm not completely sure, but that is my impression.

--Singer

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DrKegel 430 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-05, 03:07 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"

From:

http://www.realitytvmagazine.com/blog/2005/10/the_apprentice__4.html

quote

Back in the conference room, Martha Stewart, alongside Charles Koppelman and Alexis Stewart, reminds them, "this is not a game, this is a job interview...remember that."

unquote

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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-05, 09:12 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Jim just knocked himself out of the game - And he is weak"
LAST EDITED ON 12-05-05 AT 09:13 AM (EST)

Martha and anyone else can certainly state what they think this is but I think PRE said it best here:

Just how many job interviews do you go on that involve creating and selling salad dressing or seeing if you can sell more than the other TEAM to take a step closer to getting the job? How many job interviews have you ever been on that involve teams at all?


I finally blogged

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