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"Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-04-19, 07:49 PM (EST)
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"Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
They should have stopped that IC...not because of Lauren passing out, but because of the ridiculousness of that silly challenge. Unless, of course, they were conducting ballerina tryouts. HMMM, I guess I missed that chapter in Robinson Crusoe when Crusoe and Friday were taking Ballet lessons. *snort*

If I numbered my ranking for this episode, 1 – 5 would be appropriately blank. So, for this week, I’ll separate the ranking between the Returnees and Newbies in no particular order.

THE RETURNEES
(According to the season “Theme,” none of whom have a chance…)

DAVID – Good episode for David. He was the voice of reason on a couple of levels. First, with Rick even though he could not get through Rick’s disgruntled resentment. But the full idol is still in his possession. His “pilot and passenger” speech at TC was right on the money. Will any of Production’s newfound debacles for this sad season take note??

KELLEY – Girl, you can’t even imagine how LoserDog has saved your bellyaching piehole. One could ask how you intend to properly thank him, but I’m pretty sure I know the answer—by backstabbing him in favor of an all-girl alliance at the end. I’m sure she’ll create future chaos with the II LoserDog (more or less) bestowed to her. OH, forgive me...I’m sure Dan simply overlooked it due to some “fabricated” military injury.

AUBRY – Nice find of the clue. I would suspect she probably conferred with Joe before choosing to give it to Aurora. Had a decent amount of screen time this episode. Based on the preview at next week’s TC, it appears she may be taking embellishment lessons from Julia.

JOE – Still feeling the understandable sting and frustration of being Anti-Darwined. The imbeciles back at Vata be warned: A motivated Joe is a dangerous Joe!


THE NEWBIES
(Hey, Casting…YOU SUCK!)

LAUREN – Forget the Ballerina audition and stick with Intercollegiate Soccer. The pathetically inept is painting a target on her based on previous challenge performances. This does not bode well considering the bootees already victimized at the hands of the scaredy-cats. But a HII and a groupie partnership with Kelley should provide some sort of an equalizer.

AURORA – Even though it was a lame IC, a win is still a win. In addition to the IN, she also was gifted an extra vote and has her choice of alliance. As stated last week, Joe being Anti-Darwined was the best thing for her game.

VICTORIA – OK, I’ll make it unanimous and agree they are real. But so is the bird poop on her face. HDTV has not been kind to Red. Other than planting an Anti-Darwin seed against Lauren and passing the audition for the New York City Ballet, I’m not feeling it for Victoria...unless she puts that darn shirt over her face and showcases her bikini top more often.

GAVIN – He made a pitch to blindside Ron instead of his partner Eric, but had to know the numbers were too overwhelming against Eric. There had to be a whole lot more than just Julia and LoserDogs conversation to have Kelley AND Lauren BOTH not play their idols. I had hopes for something to materialize from his partnership with Eric, but now we are more than halfway and I sense the season slowly slipping away from him.

RICK – His resentment toward LoserDog was understandable. Displaying his anger toward him in person was dumb. One of the many life lessons my Grandfather gave me...NEVER argue with Losers because it will bring you down to THEIR level...where they will be able to “beat” you with their experience. Rick needed grandpa’s advice last episode.

LOSERDOG – IF Kelley and Lauren take LoserDog to the end, then Dan’s play up to this point will prove to be a fine investment...but I STILL do not think that will happen. I do believe a Kama was getting booted regardless, so LoserDog’s scrambling essentially helped save Kelley and Lauren from playing their idols...idols LoserDog HIMSELF does not even know about. So, what does that tell you...?

JULIA – Not sure what to make of her. She appears athletic enough (not in a Keith kind of way mind you-LOL) to be a factor in future challenges. I’m not going to over-“fabricate” her interaction with LoserDog, but at least she’s making strides to playing the game behind the scenes.

JULIE – It was going to be between Ron and Eric. Gavin wanted Ron gone; we know Julie is closer to Ron. Does an Eric boot mean Julie got her way? Maybe I’m over-“fabricating?” Or perhaps I should brush up on my Homer. LMAO!

RON – How many noose knots can Ron make on his tie? Could his vest be a metaphor for a straightjacket? Firming up an alliance through the Loved Ones Visit? REALLY? Only 7-10 days after those sappy, obnoxious embellishing family reunions they’d be able to see those same loved ones anyway. It really should have been Ron’s torch snuffed instead.

BOOTED
(There’s a “Theme” happening alright...but it’s not “Returnees.")

ERIC – Is Eric a returnee? He must be...after all he got booted and that’s the “theme of the season.” LOL. Seriously, the choice came down to a middle-aged self-proclaimed “puppet master” or a strong challenge performer (ballerina toes notwithstanding.) Perhaps, Vata’s intent is to stock Eviction Island with strong challenge performers to minimize Joe’s chance of returning. If so, then Joe will REALLY have to earn his way back.

EX-STINK-TION ISLAND
(Not counting the Returnees as they were already noted above.)

REEM – Hey Jeff, your “star” of the season was lacking luster.

CHRIS - With Chris, Joe, Eric and any other future bootee as a challenge threat occupying Extinction Island, we could be in store for an epic win-back challenge, unless stupefied Production does something farcical and muck it up with some limp-wristed challenge, i.e. building a House of Cards or some other silly nonsense…

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... michel2 04-05-19 1
   RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... Aruba 04-06-19 2
       RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... michel2 04-06-19 4
           RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... Aruba 04-07-19 6
               RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... michel2 04-07-19 7
                   RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep.... Aruba 04-09-19 10
 My Take: michel2 04-06-19 3
   RE: My Take: Aruba 04-07-19 5
       RE: My Take: michel2 04-07-19 8
           RE: My Take: Aruba 04-09-19 9
               RE: My Take: michel2 04-09-19 11
                   RE: My Take: sj007 04-10-19 12
                       RE: My Take: michel2 04-10-19 13
                           RE: My Take: sj007 04-15-19 15
                               RE: My Take: michel2 04-15-19 16
                                   RE: My Take: sj007 04-17-19 17
                                       RE: My Take: michel2 04-17-19 18
                                           RE: My Take: sj007 04-22-19 19
                                               RE: My Take: michel2 04-22-19 20
                   RE: My Take: Aruba 04-10-19 14

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-05-19, 12:54 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
LAST EDITED ON 04-05-19 AT 03:58 PM (EST)

I won't publish my list before tomorrow but I see you need a lesson in storytelling. I said this season's theme was, FROM THE NEWBIES' POV: "They had their chance, now it's our turn". THAT CREATES A GREAT UNDERDOG STORY because, previously, many viewers shared the opinion that returning players have an unfair advantage. So, from the editors' POV, the viewers are told that the Returning players have to fight a really tough battle. It DOESN'T MEAN they will lose in the end. IF ONE RETURNING PLAYER DOES WIN IT SIMPLY MAKES IT MORE EPIC.

Please note that the caps aren't meant as screaming but to make sure you understand. I know it's useless but I will never lose hope...

Also you wrote: ``...But so is the bird poop on her face.``
Are you still in the 3rd grade?

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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-19, 06:39 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
There’s nothing mature about being silly and having fun. Bashing those who make a conscious and intentional decision to put themselves out there on a primetime Reality Show become appropriate targets to the silliness, fun, and (yes...) immaturity that goes along with bashing.

Naturally there’s a time and a place for everything. Personally, I do not act like a “third-grader” when I enter a place of worship...this Forum does NOT qualify as such. For those who wish to use this Forum as a “middle school” creative writing course or to create Survivor “Monarch Notes” (last time I touched one I was a teenager) then knock yourselves out. Those who choose to engage in other “non-adult” behavior by having fun, being silly and bashing, allow them the fun that goes along with humorous bashing. As one who chooses to engage in the latter, upon entering this BASHER Forum here's some advice:

CHECK YOUR MATURITY AT THE DOOR

And please note MY caps aren’t meant as “screaming” either...they are there to make YOU understand.

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-19, 06:10 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
Basher is a place to blast the show for its bad ideas while the players and the host are roasted for their stupid actions. There's usually a big dose of wit in those flames.

Bashing someone for their appearance is childish especially when it's something as natural as freckles. I prefer debating with mature posters.

PS. I know I bashed Laurel on being fat but gaining weight on Survivor is a cause for bashing. Anyway that started as a joke with Kingfish who objected to a comment I made about Laurel not being responsible for the vote that saved her. He started his comment by saying: "It's not a big thing but Laurel..." So I replied, "Laurel IS a big thing..." I guess Kingfish never got or accepted the joke and he blasted me all season for calling her fat when I was mostly trying to be witty.

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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-19, 10:30 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
The sheer inconsistency you bring to these Boards where you establish one set of standards for the castaways you favor and another set for the castaways you dislike has now, not surprisingly, extended on a personal level. When you bashed it was “wit;” when I bash it is “childish.”

Your meager attempt to backpedal on your Laurel bash becomes the latest and another pristine example of your “childish” spinology. And you drag Kingfish into your spin by stating he, much like myself, just doesn’t “get it” merely because we may not always share the interpretation of your “Monarch Notes” on Survivor or your personal opinions where you inconsistently establish two sets of standards for obvious reason.

Simply put, Laurel did NOT “gain weight on Survivor.” Stating that is either a figment of your imagination, or yet another lame effort to justify YOUR actions you so ignorantly criticize me for doing. Without hesitation, I will lean toward the latter.

Unless you are able to share the actual Patent Number you have on “Bashing” from the Patent and Trademark Office, you need not lecture me on what “bashing” is and what “bashing” is not based on your own personal spin and interpretation.

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-19, 12:36 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
Bashing should always be witty. That's simple, isn't it? It shouldn't be about someone's appearance but when I wrote that I remembered that I had an exchange with Kingfish about Lauren's appearance so I felt I needed to explain. You may not like my explanation but deal with it. And maybe she didn't gain weight on Survivor but she certainly didn't lose an ounce!

And also, bashing should concern itself with important stuff and my post was mostly about your misuse of the season's theme which you ignored. My comment about your childish insult on Bird poop was only a postscript.

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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-19, 07:25 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Survivor 38 Player Rankings Ep. 8"
Simply put, BASHING IS BASHING...whether a reader wants to regard it as “witty” or if someone is unable to “check their maturity at the door” and they get their nose twisted a little out of joint.

It continues to be VERY sad Production gives little (if any) regard to castaways survivalist skills in a game called SURVIVOR. The same CANNOT be said for one’s appearance. Much consideration is given to appearance an overwhelming majority of the time when casting. SO, if a castaway is overweight, i.e. Laurel...or a “Butterface,” i.e. Victoria...they are fair game in the Basher Forum.

I’ll wager WHATEVER you wish to challenge your claim that Laurel “certainly didn’t lose an ounce!”
At the last Reunion Show, Jeff mentioned weight losses for various castaways during the game and even went on to say Big Tom (Africa) holds the record for the most weight lost during a season. That certainly suggests to me Production has been keeping records with before and after weigh-ins going as far back as S3-Africa, thus it shouldn’t be impossible to verify.

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-06-19, 05:58 PM (EST)
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3. "My Take:"
Previously on Survivor, Hey! Ha!

It looks like we’re witnessing the extinction of another Survivor tradition. The Luxury items are long gone, the fallen comrades aren’t shown anymore, the naming of the merged Tribe doesn’t make the final cut and now it appears that the “Previously on Survivor” segment is on the endangered species list. Two weeks in a row without one and this time it wasn’t because the editors were anxious to show us their season’s gimmick. Well, I do appreciate hearing a little less from Jeff but the summary was usually a good tool to analyze the edit; it sort of extracted all the superficial stuff and gave us the story’s essentials.

I guess we’ll have to keep our own records.

As for the upcoming episode, I thought its theme was:

A Pilot Wins in the End.”
Or
A Dog at War

Vata Night 19

Aurora had the first confessional of the evening: “Well, after my first Tribal, there were two idiots; one was Joe the next one was me! We were the only two out of the original Kama that were in the dark about tonight’s vote so that pretty much sucks right now. If I have to work with Kama and play nice, I can do that but I have no allegiances, I don’t care how I go at this point but I’m only going with the numbers.”

After receiving thanks from David and Rick, Ron gave an interview: “By saving David and Rick, they trust me, they’re loyal, they owe me a major one. I really wanted Rick and David to be so angry with the members of Lesu because I don’t want them for a second thinking of going back to work with them and the chasm that I built within Lesu is so strong that they are not going to cross it. War Dog, Wentworth and Lauren are on the bottom and they know it.”

Hearing that confessional, I figured Ron was heading for an epic fall in this episode. Well, I didn’t miss by much. Indeed, Ron was going to be blindsided but it was his friend Eric leaving for Island of Extinction. While he was less visible than Ron, he was the one pushing the “Family Visit” as if it was the “Nec Plus Ultra” in this game, the ultimate goal. Only a fool should fall for that non-sense. Strangely, there was a fool listening to Eric at that point and I’d never have guessed that it would be Rick as we were about to find out.

Kelley, War Dog and Lauren felt humbled by the big move pulled by their rivals. War Dog wisely figured that Aurora had been left out of the loop so all they had to do was to get Rick and David back on board, pull in Aurora and then threaten to go to rocks.

The real mastermind of this season had been quiet at the merger but he was now back and he’ll be working it throughout the episode.

War Dog’s interview: “Right now we need each other for the next few votes otherwise we’re all done. So, if we patch those wounds with Devens and David and bring Aurora in we can say we have nothing to lose, maybe we can go to rocks.”

The Island of Extinction segment showed us Joe in tears, counting the days left in the game. It was a moment for Joe to share with his fans.

The Reward Challenge

Personally, I have always said that we are cheated out of a lot of interpersonal dynamics when the editors don’t tell us who were the captains and their draft order. It would only take 5 seconds to inform us so don’t tell me it’s a question of time. This time though, it was the worst I’ve ever seen it; the challenge started and we didn’t even know who was on which team. We had to find out as the challenge evolved. Would you go to a ball game if you didn’t know who was playing? Of course not so why do we still watch this crap?

I’ll be kinder than those editors and tell you:

On the Blue team, we had War Dog, Devens, Aurora and Eric doing the swimming and retrieving. We would eventually see that they were teamed with Victoria and Julia, handling the puzzle.

(I noticed that there wasn’t a lot of difference between Aurora’s free style form and Franziska van Almsick’s. They even look a bit alike!)

On the Yellow Team, we had Kelley, Lauren, Julie and Gavin out in the ocean so that left David and Ron acting as their landlubber.

With three guys handling the physical part of the challenge, Blue was off to an early lead and the puzzle was relatively simple so Yellow wasn’t able to catch up.

To think, some people see these silly games as the highlight of the evening while I’d be happy with an episode, maybe even the whole post merger, without a single challenge!

Ron had the post-game interview: “So we lost and everyone’s upset but I’m sitting back thinking this is awesome because the last thing I want is for Wentworth and Lauren to be strong. I want them to feel lost and lonely because I’m the puppet master and I’m trying to break them down.”

Now that’s it’s surfaced, it seems that the man’s arrogance has no limits. It’s too bad that they went for his ally Eric instead because sending Ron to the island of Extinction still holding bits of string in his hands would have been perfect. Notice also that, on a second level, the editors really played a nasty trick on Ron by including a confessional in which he says he wants to break Lauren down and she was soon going to actually break down physically. Viewers could ask: Would he have been happy if she had died out there?

Vata Day 20

Lauren gave us an interview when half the tribe was enjoying Chinese take-out: “I just needed some sort of food and some sort of win. I am so freaking hungry.” Quite cruelly, the editors inserted a scene where the victors had just finished enjoying their reward.

Kelley seized the occasion to apologize to David for their votes against him. David was very receptive and he apologized himself.

Kelley’s interview: “At this point, I’m kind of on the bottom with War Dog and Lauren. I don’t know where Rick and David stand completely but we’ve got to bury the hatchet. It’s dumb; unless the group is totally going after each other and forgetting that there’s this whole Kama situation. It’s exactly what Kama wants and they just run the game. If the Lesu Five come together and ... (See below) if the Lesu Five come together and pull in Aurora, we have six people to try and vote one of these Kama people out.”

There was a funny image that interrupted Kelley’s confessional: There was a bug in Kelley’s plan, literally! She forcefully swatted that troublesome fly away and it wound up right on Ron! Well, we saw Kelley swatting the fly towards the right side of our screen and then the next image had another fly coming in from the left side of our TV and landing on Ron’s knee. So I thought the imagery was clear: Kelley was going to get rid of her problem and it was going to land squarely on Ron’s lap. We know that Kelley has learned how to play from the bottom so now we’ll have to see how Ron manages it.

Even if Kelley told him that they had a shot at grabbing Aurora, David realized they’d only be six. Kelley countered that Kama would probably split their votes if they thought they had 9 people going against the three Lesu.

David’s interview: I’m really excited about what Wentworth is proposing because the Kama tribe is in control of this game. I’m not in control of anything. I’m just a piece in their game, especially to the people who are in charge of it like Ron and Eric. We need to band together and flip this game on its head. I just have to pull in my strongest alliance member which is Devens. That should be no problem.”

Right then War Dog was talking to Devens who proved to be a huge problem by using sarcasm: “I’m dying to get back with the old Lesu now that I know that I can trust you guys. I really want to get back with you all. Except that I don’t F___ing want to get back with you guys at all.” The sound of a cymbal crash underlined the finality of Devens position. War Dog pointed out that the game had to be played to win so he couldn’t understand why Devens could be playing so emotionally.

Rick’s interview: “That was so stupid: Don’t come out here and War Dog at me. Don’t yell at me how I’m not playing the game that I should be playing. I don’t like to be barked at, I’m not going to play with them. If I know I can’t trust Lesu then let’s do everything I can to get in with Kama. They just saved me at the last tribal so don’t bark at me about how I’m playing the game just because I’m not doing what you want me to do. He needs david and I to swing with them but like it’s just not going to happen.”

With this confessional, Rick showed the limitations of his game. He closed a door on his own, locking himself with a group that didn’t even count him as one of their own.

I liked David’s comment to Rick: “You always remember one conversation on Survivor...” I’m sure Rick was remembering this conversation when he saw the episode play out on his screen.
David explained that they’d both be puppets if they went with Kama. David’s logic didn’t shake Rick’s obstinacy.

David’s interview: “There’s nothing more important than breaking Kama but unfortunately, Devens is not on board; 100% opposed to it. Devens is letting emotions run his game so the last thing I want to do is give him half of the idol I have so that he could do something even more irrational with it. It is so frustrating to have found someone that I can trust as much as I can trust Devens and realize I have to find another path to day 39. I wanted it to be with Devens but the way things are shaping up right now, I don’t think there’s any hope for that.”

Edge of Extinction – Day 21

Chris had messages for everyone. They were going on a hunt. Aubry was determined to get the prize first and she did. It was a chance to practice for their next challenge and an extra vote to send to someone.

It was interesting hearing Aubry saying that she had to be sneaky, sneaky like Kelley Wentworth to get the clue that was under everyone’s nose.

The Immunity Challenge

We had a funny moment When Devens fell off fifth: Jeff had labeled the first four players out of the challenge “four of the fittest” so Devens added: “Five of the fittest”. David commented that Devens probably fell off just for the joke.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he did.

That challenge didn’t favor the men at all as we soon wound up with Lauren, Veronica and Aurora facing off for immunity. That’s when the cameras gave us close-ups of Lauren saying she felt dizzy. We could see her eyes loosing focus so we knew something was wrong.

If the filming of this scene was from actual footage then I’d accuse the cameraman of criminal negligence. It was clear that Lauren was in trouble so why didn’t he call medical right away? I counted a full minute of air time between the time Lauren said she felt dizzy to the time she collapsed so that’s the minimum amount of time that the cameraman had time to react. Instead, she had to faint and fall to the ground before any help came her way. Was he waiting for her to die out there? Of course, those close-up images were probably recreated a few hours after the end of the challenge to give viewers the full sensation of someone about to collapse. At least I hope they asked Lauren to recreate the unfocused look. While it was less sickening than someone filming a young woman’s distress without intervening, what we saw and heard from Jeff and Aurora was also in bad taste.

After calling medical to Lauren’s aid, Jeff told Victoria and Aurora to continue with the challenge. That’s when Aurora started pleading for Victoria to give it to her. The pleas went on for a while but Victoria held up for some time before eventually falling off.

Jeff should have stopped the challenge right there and then to focus everyone’s attention to Lauren. That challenge could have been resumed afterwards or they could even have settled it with a tie-breaking question or even simply a coin flip because it was all very distasteful. At least, when Lauren said she felt embarrassed, Jeff said it proved she was a warrior.

I have another question to ask Jeff: Why was he standing behind the contestants? Was it to get a good look at the women’s butt?

Lauren’s interview: “It was really scary when I passed out but I was even more pissed that I was on the ground because that means I didn’t win and it leaves me very, very vulnerable but playing my idol is the absolute last resort.”

Vata Day 22

Aurora’sinterview: “There’s not as better feeling going into Tribal knowing that you’re a hundred percent safe especially when everything around you has told you lately; you are not safe. So I get back to camp and I’m happy but then i go in my back and there is a parchment and I’m pretty sure I don’t have a parchment. So I immediately sneak away. I went from feeling not accepted to this; having the power of an extra vote to cast at any time. It’s amazing but right now, I’m going to stick with the numbers and hold my tongue until it’s time to make a move.”
On the beach, Ron led a cheer for the 7 “Kama Strong” players. He added that they’d see all their loved ones if they stuck together. Eric seconded that feeling.

Ron’s interview: “Eric and I are working together to control everybody and we’re using the Loved Ones visit as a threat almost by saying; don’t we all want to have our Loved Ones here? By saying that, it makes them not flip and have another alliance. It’s genius.”

Eric’s interview: “I know this Kama alliance won’t last forever. Things are going to get crazy and when it does myself and Ron have David and Devens in our pocket to make the big move but it’s not a worry for today: Let’s use our numbers that we so craftily acquired and let’s split some votes and let’s get some of those Lesu players out starting with Kelley.”

I’ve often said that splitting votes is the best way to turn a minority into a plurality but it seems Eric never listened to me!
Kelley’s interview:
“The original Kama people along with Rick Devens are all this big voting bloc and they are going to vote probably for myself or Lauren tonight and it’s a scary thing. Luckily, Lauren and I have idols. When you have an idol it’s just like a gut feeling and hoping that you are right.”

That’s when the Dog went to War.

It started with War Dog talking to Julia, telling her that he could be going home or Kelley or Lauren but that the seven Kama weren’t going to be the Final 7. He rightly surmised that Ron and Eric’s plan was to use Devens and David.

Did he really come to that conclusion on his own or did David inform him of that plan? If David told War Dog that Ron and Eric were working to get them on board then it takes a bit of shine off War Dog’s image but shown this way it paints him as this great player, the only one able to see through the deception.

War Dog’s interview: “You know you got to go out there and find cracks. You can’t just say: Oops, I tried but it didn’t work. You keep fighting in this game. My best strategy is to convince these younger Kama people that they need soldiers for a war because, once that war starts, who is Devens and David siding on?”

Notice that the editors used the same montage as they did with Aubry in an earlier episode. We saw and heard War Dog making the rounds, talking to Julia and Gavin and repeating the same exact words to both. That earlier scene told us that Aubry was going to get played by these players but here we have the opposite impression. Why? It’s because we didn’t hear any Kama player laughing at War Dog’s attempts. Instead, they heeded his advice. That’s a huge difference in the editing world.

Julia’s interview: “War Dog was breaking down his perception of the dynamics of Kama saying that Ron and Eric are trying to pull in David and Devens and eventually make a move on Gavin, Victoria and myself. War Dog might have a point and I didn’t realize it until he said it. So, I’m going to have to test Eric by trying to push a David or Devens vote and that will be the true testament to who is working with whom?” Julia went to Eric, asking if they should vote for David first. Eric’s reluctance told her all she needed to know as we heard when her interview resumed: “War Dog was right; they are going to try to use David and Devens down the road to flip on us Kama members. It might be my time to make a big move.”

Gavin’s interview: “Eric and Ron saying we’ve got to get to the family visit was like an epiphany; it hit me, like I’m going to win for my family. That’s why I’m stepping my game back up and coming in guns blazing.”

Interesting choice of words considering we heard that War Dog was Doc Holliday and his Lesu allies were the Earp brothers. I’m not sure Gavin has the skills to defeat those gunslingers.

Victoria was hesitant when they brought her in on the plan. She thought it would be best for them to wait for one vote before making the move.

Since Victoria has been portrayed up to now as a slightly more skillful player than Gavin and Julia, it suggests that this plan will indeed fail to get the young Kama players to the end.
Julia’s confessional:
“Every decision, every option carries some risk in this game. Tonight, we can stay Kama strong and it can be an easy vote, taking out Kelley or we can pull in the people at the bottom and we can make a big move now and target Ron or Eric. They’ve taken advantage of the power that this alliance has gotten but the bad part for them is that we realize it and they might be on the wrong side of the vote at Tribal Council.”

Tribal Council

Eric told Jeff that the Kama 7 made a group decision. He said the Lesu players come in packages.
That made War Dog laugh, saying one package may have gotten more attention than his.
Devens was completely up front saying he wasn’t with the Lesu Five. He was trying to get on board the Kama train.
After saying that Kama saved Devens and him, David said that everyone had to decide if they wanted to be a Pilot or a Passenger adding that a “Pilot Wins at the End.” David called himself a “passenger”.

We’ve had numerous discussions about this, an idea that is front and center in the Nash Theory of Survivor. That states that a “pilot”, or really a leader, is more likely to win in a season when there aren’t many leaders while a “passenger”, a follower in the Nash terminology, is most likely to win in a season where there are many leaders who set out to kill each other. Since we know that Jeff and his team have a great fondness for Nash’s theory then winners have often been portrayed obeying that law. (S1 Hatch the only leader going against a leaderless tribe. Vecepia, a follower, won in Marquesas, a season that featured Hunter, Rob, Sean, Kathy and John all trying to lead. In S9 Chris, the leader of the fat guys’ alliance, won over a tribe of women which was split between Ami and Mia before the merger and then between Ami and Scout after it. The examples abound.) Here however, the Theme is simple: “A Pilot Wins in the End.” I apologize for the tangent.

Ron said they had to avoid that type of panic, Eric adding that they all want to see their Loved Ones.

War Dog asked: “Are we playing for the Million Dollars or for the Loved Ones’ visit?”

David, to his personal (faked) dismay, agreed with war Dog. He nicely added that most players had blank résumés with only an address that read: 404 Edge of Extinction Drive.
Jeff asked Victoria if it was just a question of “When do I make my move?”
Victoria hinted that with 12 people still in the game shooting your shot could mean shooting yourself in the foot.
Aurora said that everyone had a chance to take control of the game but who was going to decide to do it.

It was time to vote.

When Jeff asked if anyone wanted to play an idol, Lauren and Kelley stayed put.

Eric and Ron voted for Kelley.
Julie and Devens voted for Lauren.
War Dog, Kelley, Lauren, David, Julia, Aurora, Gavin and Victoria voted against Eric.

The Story

Finally these new players are showing that they are game savvy. Our early impression that they weren’t good players was mostly due to the fact that so much time had to be spent on the fan Favorites but now the game is in full motion and it looks like it will be an interesting ride. My favorite seasons are always the ones edited to follow the Nash Theory so hearing an indirect reference to it piqued my interest. If we were to count the different pilots, I’d say we’d have to include Ron, War Dog, Julia Kelley and Devens so there should be enough fireworks to favor a follower but the Nash Theory only states that a type of player is more likely to win under a certain condition. Maybe we should limit ourselves to what we heard on the show: A Pilot wins in the End.” So who will it be?

The Characters

The Fallen Pilots: The Edge of Extinction offers a shot at redemption that wasn’t given to past Fallen Leaders.

Eric: His portrayal before the merger was so thin, so impersonal that it would take a huge redemption edit to give us a satisfying winning story. I’ll eliminate Eric for good.

Ron: His arrogance was on full view and his attempt to sell the family visit was so pathetic that I don’t think Ron could ever present a winner’s résumé no matter what he does from now on. The “Fogs of War” imagery didn’t let us down.

The Passengers – According to the Theme delivered by David, these players don’t stand a chance, yet, according to Nash they’d be favored.

Aurora: She wasn’t even riding the Kama Train, just running along the tracks so flipping didn’t improve her standing much. It certainly didn’t give her the command of the game. That advantage will need to be used in a way to dazzle the jury if she’s going to have a chance.

Devens: He had an option to go back with Lesu but he slammed that door shut. That puts him in no man’s land, a place where the trains don’t go so how can he pilot anything. He can’t even get his idol back. If he wants to make it to the reunion he will have to walk.

Julie: Last week, she had been spared from the “Fogs of War” smoke probably because she was reluctant to eliminate Joe so early. Who can say that wasn’t a mistake now? Joe is a great passenger and he would have voted with Kama no matter what. Unfortunately for Julie, the “smoke monster” (!) caught up to her this week as we saw her engulfed in the camp fire smoke just when Julia and Gavin were thinking of voting against her alliance.

Gavin: This vote gave him a chance to steer the ship but it was only for a moment. We even heard him say that he wanted to eliminate Ron before Eric because he was much closer to the Firefighter than he ever was to the Teacher but he didn’t even get his way there.

Victoria: With the theme in this episode stating: “Pilots win the game”, Victoria’s chances of winning are dwindling. She was a pilot in the early days of Kama but her game was too relaxed so she fell out of the driver’s seat. Ron was first to take her place but he was swiftly shoved aside by Julia. Victoria was slow to adhere to the plan of her young tribe mates and that could be an indication that her position should have been heard. As is, I think she did shoot herself in the foot.

Chris: His portrayal on the Island of Extinction was promising for a few episodes but now his role has faded back into the background. I don’t think his story is leading to victory.

David: He called himself a passenger, in direct contradiction to his definition of what it takes to win so I’ll eliminate him.

Julia: She jumps up in the peloton of racers chasing the front runners because she was portrayed as the “Pilot”, the one that guided the young Kama half into making a big move. Unfortunately for her chances, the edit also showed that her piloting lesson was accomplished under War Dog’s guidance and she has already ceded the wheel to him.

The Contenders

Aubry: At first, I noticed a certain quality in Aubry’s interviews: Where the players interviews are usually filmed in such a way that we see the person sitting and we have a view of their surroundings, all Aubry’s confessionals were done in close-ups but then i realized that the same applied to Reem and Joe so it’s nothing special. Still Aubry’s chances cannot be completely dismissed and she’d have a strong case to present to the jury if she beats Joe, Chris, Eric and whoever else comes her way.

Joe: With such a clear path to the end game we’ll never be able to eliminate Joe but I would prefer not seeing an outcast win, especially if it’s a returning player.

Lauren: If a passenger is going to prove David wrong (proving that Nash was right after all!) then it would be Lauren. She was called a warrior and her idol could certainly impress the jury if she plays it right. She could profit from the jury’s perception that the returning players have had their chance already. I can imagine her sitting between Kelley and Joe at the end and wouldn’t that be a wild throwback to her quote at the season’s opening? She wanted to play with Joe and Kelley but what if she beats both of them in the end. Joe could be penalized for having been an outcast while Kelley could be seen as just another passenger so the jury would be happy to reward the woman that had the roughest ride of them all. Was she a Passenger? Yes, but it was quite a bumpy ride.

Kelley: I simply loved the montage that the editors did with Kelley’s confessional when she was assaulted by that fly. Survivor is often compared to the “Lord of the Flies” and there is even a theory that was popular among viewers for a while. It went back to the image of the pig’s head covered in flies in the famous book and it stated that “A Winner Has Never Been Shown With a Fly on his Body.” I’ve contested it but, to be honest, I’ve never had an example to refute that theory. This season, we clearly saw Lauren with a fly on her foot during a challenge, she even commented on it tickling her so that would eliminate her but what about Kelley’s fly? Kelley was in terrible danger, close to the Edge of Extinction but, just as she swatted that fly away, she escaped once more. I think it was even more significant that, after Kelley swatted the fly away we saw a fly landing on Ron’s knee. WShile that would eliminate Ron if we go by the “Fly Theory” what I enjoyed most was the perfect coordination of the fly’s path: With her hand. Kelley swatted the fly to the right of our screen and when the image changed to Ron and Aurora in the shelter, we saw the (or rather “a”) fly traveling from the left side of the screen to the right before resting on Ron’s lap. The angle of the fly’s trajectory was perfect; it gave us the impression that Kelley not only got rid of her problems but sent them directly on Ron’s lap. Can he deal with it as well as she’s done? She's done such a good job that I doubt Ron can handle it!

War Dog: In an episode titled “I’m the puppet master” the editors showed us clearly that the real master was War Dog. If a “Pilot is Going to Win” then it should be War Dog. It was extremely telling that the editors showed War Dog talking to Julia and Gavin using the same words for both to the point that his sentences were spliced together between screen shots of both listeners. Such a montage had been used to discredit Aubry but here it underlined War Dog’s mastery of the game. Such portrayal is usually reserved to the winner.

The only thing holding me from declaring War Dog the Sole Survivor is that all the attention, all the doubt is cast on Kelley. From the start, what we’ve heard has constantly been “Let’s get Kelley out.” It started with David, Reem, Wendy, Chris and now it even spread to Eric while absolutely no one has mentioned the need to get rid of War Dog. Is it to show that his game is truly exceptional or is it telling us that they won’t respect his game? Would the jury, most of which will be comprised of players who thought that returning players had their chance already, vote for a returning player over a new one like War Dog or Lauren?

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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-19, 10:10 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: My Take:"
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-19 AT 10:52 AM (EST)

Perhaps a reason why “Previously on Survivor” was not aired is because even those who miss the Wednesday telecast still have countless opportunities to view the episode over and over again allowing more chances to conjure up different conspiracy theories forcing those who focus on actuality the impossible task of having to “disprove an unproven.” So why bother??

UFO enthusiasts have been “keeping records” on Roswell, NM for the past 70 years. Those refusing to accept the Lunar Landing been “keeping records” for the past half century. Why should a certain sector of Survivor fans be any different over the past 20 years?

I'm going from recollection, but I do not believe the teams on the RC were designated Captains followed by a draft order. If it was, then I am in agreement with your disturbance by omitting that scene. I thought both teams in their entirety were assembled by random draw. In that case, why even show it if the conspiracists are going to cry "foul" over the randomness of the teams?

Funny you regard the RC as “silly” yet not comment on the obvious absurdity of the IC. As for the RC, swimming, lifting, carrying, and working as a team are all essential elements to being a “Survivor” on an island...as opposed to the ballerina toes needed to excel at the IC. With the overabundance of ridiculous and obnoxious embellishment plaguing the game of Survivor, to accuse cameramen of “criminal negligence” is as preposterous as ridiculing other posters for “childish” behavior. You must probably think CBS cameramen are also members of the American Medical Association. Even if they were, no one knew how Lauren felt more than Lauren herself...and she had ample time to call medical on her own.

You “bash” Jeff and Aurora for wanting to continue the challenge after Lauren fainted, yet there was ANOTHER involved...non other than Miss Butter(but-her)face herself in a standoff with Aurora. How convenient (yet, not surprising) you omit Butterface in your “bad taste” bash.

Good call on Jeff’s position during the IC. With no plastic lolos to gawk at this season, I won’t fault him. Afterall, bikini butts are nicer to look at than bird poop.

If the “Nash Theory” had any teeth, NO WAY the greatest Survivor of all-time wins Palau. That season was stockpiled with leaders and wannabe “pilots” almost assuring a “passenger” to win that season...according to theorist Nash. But the “cream” (Westman) rose to top, proving how a “theory” took backseat to a factual homogenization process. How’s THAT for “imagery!” Ha-Ha!!

Cute assessment on Kelley swatting the fly, but the fly should have landed on LoserDog’s bonehead to present a more accurate “imagery” by foretelling how she may swat Dan out of the way for playing the role of the fool after getting duped by Kelley (and Lauren.) HMMMM, I may be giving you ammunition to use on me...but there may just be something to this "imagery" crap... LMAO!

Also, an agreeable call on (probably) David providing his former tribemates with enough assurance that Kama would definitely be turning on Eric. Whereas, LoserDogs interaction with Julia was commendable gameplay, I’m not believing for a second Kelley AND Lauren would BOTH put all their faith in LoserDog’s scramble to NOT play their idols and run the risk of being Aubry’d to Extinction Island. ESPECIALLY from someone both have not shared their idol possessions with.

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-07-19, 01:46 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: My Take:"
LAST EDITED ON 04-07-19 AT 01:59 PM (EST)

>Perhaps a reason why “Previously on
>Survivor” was not aired is
>because even those who miss
>the Wednesday telecast still have
>countless opportunities to view the
>episode over and over again
>allowing more chances to conjure
>up different conspiracy theories forcing
>those who focus on actuality
>the impossible task of having
>to “disprove an unproven.” So
>why bother??

That's not the tenor of my comment. It's another Survivor tradition that may be on its way out and there's been too many of those. But yes, the POS segment has been uselful at times for editing analysis.

I'll skip the second paragraph since it is totally useless.


>I'm going from recollection, but I
>do not believe the teams
>on the RC were designated
>Captains followed by a draft
>order. If it was, then
>I am in agreement with
>your disturbance by omitting that
>scene.

Jeff did say we'll pick captains and get started. In the old days we used to see the draft but not anymore. This time what was completely ridiculous was that Jeff didn't even bother informing us of who was playing with whom so even if it had been random it was a ridiculous omission.

I thought both teams
>in their entirety were assembled
>by random draw. In that
>case, why even show it
>if the conspiracists are going
>to cry "foul" over the
>randomness of the teams?

My opinion is that there's rarely anything random in Survivor.

>Funny you regard the RC as
>“silly” yet not comment on
>the obvious absurdity of the
>IC. As for the RC,
>swimming, lifting, carrying, and working
>as a team are all
>essential elements to being a
>“Survivor” on an island...as opposed
>to the ballerina toes needed
>to excel at the IC.
>With the overabundance of ridiculous
>and obnoxious embellishment plaguing the
>game of Survivor, to accuse
>cameramen of “criminal negligence” is
>as preposterous as ridiculing other
>posters for “childish” behavior. You
>must probably think CBS cameramen
>are also members of the
>American Medical Association. Even if
>they were, no one knew
>how Lauren felt more than
>Lauren herself...and she had ample
>time to call medical on
>her own.

I wrote: "To think, some people see these silly games as the highlight of the evening while I’d be happy with an episode, maybe even the whole post merger, without a single challenge!"

It was challenges, plural. For me they are all "Mickey Mouse" games so it wasn't that the RC was silly and not the IC. Both were and, for me, Survivor would be just as good without ICs after the merger. But now that you mention it, this particular IC was an endurance challenge and since we never have typically "Survival" challenges (Find your reward in the jungle using a map or a compass for example) then endurance challenges are the only ones that I appreciate.


>You “bash” Jeff and Aurora for
>wanting to continue the challenge
>after Lauren fainted, yet there
>was ANOTHER involved...non other than
>Miss Butter(but-her)face herself in a
>standoff with Aurora. How convenient
>(yet, not surprising) you omit
>Butterface in your “bad taste”
>bash.

Read more carefully, please. I bash Jeff for continuing the challenge. It was NOT up to either Aurora or Victoria to end it as they were told to continue. I bash Aurora for the distasteful bargaining. Actually most of the tribe bashed her for that, not only me. So it was DEFINITELY not a question of protecting Victoria, I simply had nothing to say about her.


>Good call on Jeff’s position during
>the IC. With no plastic
>lolos to gawk at this
>season, I won’t fault him.
>Afterall, bikini butts are nicer
>to look at than bird
>poop.

Bad little boy!

>If the “Nash Theory” had any
>teeth, NO WAY the greatest
>Survivor of all-time wins Palau.
>That season was stockpiled with
>leaders and wannabe “pilots” almost
>assuring a “passenger” to win
>that season...according to theorist Nash.
>But the “cream” (Westman) rose
>to top, proving how a
>“theory” took backseat to a
>factual homogenization process. How’s THAT
>for “imagery!” Ha-Ha!!


On the contrary, S10 went exactly according to the Nash Theory. Watch episode 1 again to see how it applied: At their first TC, Ulong, by the words of James, said they didn't want a leader because they were a democracy, they didn't need a leader even when urged by Jeff to nominate one. On the other hand, everyone in Koror deferred to Tom for making the crucial decisions, from what to carry during the IC to which island to choose after the win. That made Ulong a Leaderless tribe and Koror the ideal N-Tribe, the 1 leader tribe.

S10 Palau's main theme was: "You Have To Make the Tough Decisions" and it was introduced right at the start of the season when Jeff challenged them to make the right decision regarding the first Immunity challenge. Stephenie and Ulong were constantly shown making the wrong decisions while Tom made the right ones (or so we were led to believe! Choosing the new island was a terrible mistake but they managed through it!)

By the way, I watched episode 1 of Palau again and I'd say that Jolanda didn't win a swimming competition as she mostly ran through the water to get that first necklace!

If you want more on how Nash Theory was first applied to Survivor here is the original post made after season 5!

http://www.tapatalk.com/groups/survivorsucks/john-nash-s-survivor-t10010.html


>Cute assessment on Kelley swatting the
>fly, but the fly should
>have landed on LoserDog’s bonehead
>to present a more accurate
>“imagery” by foretelling how she
>may swat Dan out of
>the way for playing the
>role of the fool after
>getting duped by Kelley (and
>Lauren.) HMMMM, I may be
>giving you ammunition to use
>on me...but there may just
>be something to this "imagery"
>crap... LMAO!

Thank you very much. It's fun when we can agree on something. I wish it could happen more often.


There is a LOT to this imagery stuff. The most memorable one came from the Pearl Islands episode where Rupert was voted out. In that episode we had several cuts away from the action to watch a snake first approaching a big chameleon then attacking it and slowly swallowing the much bigger animal just like little Fairplay killed the huge Rupert. The imagery fit perfectly even selecting a chameleon as prey; a multi-colored animal that fit with the Pirate's tie-dye shirt!

>Also, an agreeable call on (probably)
>David providing his former tribemates
>with enough assurance that Kama
>would definitely be turning on
>Eric. Whereas, LoserDogs interaction with
>Julia was commendable gameplay, I’m
>not believing for a second
>Kelley AND Lauren would BOTH
>put all their faith in
>LoserDog’s scramble to NOT play
>their idols and run the
>risk of being Aubry’d to
>Extinction Island. ESPECIALLY from someone
>both have not shared their
>idol possessions with.

I'm not sure but I fugure that Lauren and Kelley had a talk with Julia and Gavin that was simply not shown. I think they knew how the vote was going before entering TC.

Also, I'd like to get back on how this show is scripted. I don't mean that the castaways are provided with a script necessarily but that the editors splice their comments and use their words to create dialogues that are simply not real. You remember how I wrote that Kelley saying that Devens was the last person she wanted to see didn't make any sense. Well, she never said that. What we heard was the editors using her phrase from a secret confessional that went: "When I saw Reem, Keith, Chris, Devens, Aubry and Wendy walk in that was the last thing I wanted to see because I had a hand in voting most of them out." They cut it so that we only heard: "When I saw /cut/ Devens /cut/ walk in, that was the last thing I wanted to see." See how easy it is.

They could use the phrase: "I do not like you." and turn it into I /cut/ like you." That's your reality TV.

If you want to read more on how editors splice and dice the footage to create their stories, I encourage you to read Veruca Salt's incredible analysis of Panama's Episode 4, the episode I call "The One that Never Happened":

http://community.realitytvworld.com/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/rtvw2/community/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=6259&forum=DCForumID2&archive=yes#64

I hope you appreciate this post because the Nash Theory and Veruca Salt's editing analysis are the two main reasons why I enjoy Survivor.


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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-19, 07:16 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: My Take:"
>I'll skip the second paragraph since
>it is totally useless.

Any accurate comparisons I use to drive my point home you will regard as “useless.” No surprise there.

I didn’t catch Jeff saying “we’ll pick captains and get started;” so I stand corrected. If you have any crumbs left on your plate from the roasted crow prepared for you last week, you can send them my way. Ha-Ha

The “silliness” you referenced fell under your heading “THE REWARD CHALLENGE,” so that’s why I replied as I did. If you eliminated ALL challenges, you’d have an MTV Real World on an island and very, VERY few would want to watch that nonsense. Still, I’m OK with incorporating survival disciplines, i.e. swimming, carrying, teamwork, etc. as opposed to the absurdity we witnessed with the IC. And if you’re going to make it an endurance challenge at least use the WHOLE body and not ballerina toes.

I noticed no response to my defense of the cameramen for not possessing the mind-reading ability to differentiate between melodramatic embellishment and real-life reaction. At the risk of being erroneously called a "3rd grader” again, I can remember my elementary school teacher telling us the story about “The Boy Who Cried Wolf,” to teach the students the perils of faking it. It’s the same lesson that needs to be taught to those who come off as complete jackasses by “crying wolf” with their obnoxious theatrics.

>On the other hand, everyone
>in Koror deferred to Tom
>for making the crucial decisions

Absolutely not! OK, I’ll give you casting joke, Janu, who was perfectly contend to lazily allow Tom to be the “Pilot.” Caryn, during a confessional, flat-out resented Tom as a leader and wanted to pull on the reins herself. She said so. Ian threw the gauntlet Tom’s way as a challenge to be a better provider. After Ian retrieved a large clam, Tom slew a shark prompting a distraught Ian to lament, “What do I need to do...bring back a humpback whale?!” Coby carried his resentment over Tom leading the season right to the end as the sole vote against Tom at FTC. Gregg was not all in on Tom piloting the tribe and on a number of occasions stated he wanted that role. Even on Ulong, an early power struggle ensued between Jolanda and Stephanie with Steph getting her way at the first TC.

I’ve read the Nash theory years ago. Sure, you had instances when after the season played out you were able to Nostradamus the final results and back into the Nash Theory. But in Palau...Nash was SMASHED!

Why you continue to try to pull me into the Spoiler Forum I’ll never know. Listen, if you get your jollies there, God Bless you…to each their own. I made a personal decision years ago to not engage in those circle jerk sessions...and (no offense) I will still choose not to do so now.


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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-09-19, 09:27 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: My Take:"

>I didn’t catch Jeff saying “we’ll
>pick captains and get started;”
>so I stand corrected. If
>you have any crumbs left
>on your plate from the
>roasted crow prepared for you
>last week, you can send
>them my way. Ha-Ha

I'm not into serving crow or into "I told you so". I'm content knowing we agree.


>The “silliness” you referenced fell under
>your heading “THE REWARD CHALLENGE,”
>so that’s why I replied
>as I did. If you
>eliminated ALL challenges, you’d have
>an MTV Real World on
>an island and very, VERY
>few would want to watch
>that nonsense.

It would be a game of pure strategy so it could be more fun than having 92 idols and a dozen advantages in play.

>Still, I’m OK
>with incorporating survival disciplines, i.e.
>swimming, carrying, teamwork, etc. as
>opposed to the absurdity we
>witnessed with the IC. And
>if you’re going to make
>it an endurance challenge at
>least use the WHOLE body

>and not ballerina toes.

I'd love Survival challenges but alast we have these Mickey Mouse games. But endurance is endurance and that involved the leg muscles as much as the foot.

>I noticed no response to my
>defense of the cameramen for
>not possessing the mind-reading ability
>to differentiate between melodramatic embellishment
>and real-life reaction. At the
>risk of being erroneously called
>a "3rd grader” again, I
>can remember my elementary school
>teacher telling us the story
>about “The Boy Who Cried
>Wolf,” to teach the students
>the perils of faking it.
>It’s the same lesson that
>needs to be taught to
>those who come off as
>complete jackasses by “crying wolf”
>with their obnoxious theatrics.

Sorry, I forgot to address this in my first reply. First of all, I hope you'll admit that Lauren isn't using melodramatic embellishment. Next, I'll remind you that she said she was feeling dizzy and was blacking out. Then we all saw her eyes losing focus. I'm not a doctor anymore than that cameraman but I knew something was wrong and I would have known something was wrong even if we hadn't seen previews. All it would have took was for the cameraman to attract a doctor's attention. He had time but, apparently, he prefered waiting for the fall. Inexcusable voyeurism.


>Absolutely not! OK, I’ll give you
>casting joke, Janu, who was
>perfectly contend to lazily allow
>Tom to be the “Pilot.”
>Caryn, during a confessional, flat-out
>resented Tom as a leader
>and wanted to pull on
>the reins herself. She said
>so. Ian threw the gauntlet
>Tom’s way as a challenge
>to be a better provider.
> After Ian retrieved a
>large clam, Tom slew a
>shark prompting a distraught Ian
>to lament, “What do I
>need to do...bring back a
>humpback whale?!” Coby carried his
>resentment over Tom leading the
>season right to the end
>as the sole vote against
>Tom at FTC. Gregg was
>not all in on Tom
>piloting the tribe and on
>a number of occasions stated
>he wanted that role. Even
>on Ulong, an early power
>struggle ensued between Jolanda and
>Stephanie with Steph getting her
>way at the first TC.

Jolanda was gone after episode 1 so she hardly posed a threat. Amyway, a leader needs to be charismatic and Jolanda certainly wasn't. Neither was Caryn. It's not all to say that you want to do something, you have to get people on board and those two never did.

A leader also need to know what he's doing and, in that regards, Stephenie was a joke. Her voting record proves it.

Gregg and Ian were closer to actual leaders, I'll give you that BUT BOTH DECIDED TO FOLLOW TOM!! That is an undisputable fact. Yes, Gregg said he would make a move but he waited too long and he revealed his intentions to Tom. As for Ian, when it came time to act, he simply buckled.

>I’ve read the Nash theory years
>ago. Sure, you had instances
>when after the season played
>out you were able to
>Nostradamus the final results and
>back into the Nash Theory.
>But in Palau...Nash was SMASHED!

Nash's Theory of Non-Cooperative games won a NOBEL PRIZE for economy so whatever happened on Survivor isn't going to smash it. Yul, in Cook Island's actually refered to a variation of nash's theory, talking about the "Prisoner's dilemma".

Nash Theory is a study of how to behave in a game where your decisions are influenced by what the other players do so it's a fun way to analyze Survivor. We don't have to back into silly predictions but to analyze events and how they played out.

It's a fact that Tom was a strong leader that dominated his tribe while Ulong was a pathetic leaderless tribe.

>Why you continue to try to
>pull me into the Spoiler
>Forum I’ll never know. Listen,
>if you get your jollies
>there, God Bless you…to each
>their own. I made a
>personal decision years ago to
>not engage in those circle
>jerk sessions...and (no offense) I
>will still choose not to
>do so now.

I'm not sure you know this but Panama ended almost 13 years ago so a trip into the archives wouldn't spoil anything!! You should actually enjoy reading those old posts because you'd see how often we were wrong. Of course, you'd also realize that the best posts ever written on these boards were located there.


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sj007 21 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"

04-10-19, 09:52 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: My Take:"
LAST EDITED ON 04-10-19 AT 09:52 AM (EST)

Some of both of you guys posts are really long so I don't read the whole thing. So what is this Nash theory you're talking about? How does it apply to Survivor? I've seen season 10 more than once and I agree Ulong being a leaderless tribe had a lot to do with them losing almost every challenge. They were a younger tribe and needed a leader for direction. That could've changed things who knows. That was strange when Lauren passed out. You could see when the camera zoomed in on her and see it in her eyes. How many times did they show her like that before she finally passed out? How long was that in real time?

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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

04-10-19, 04:17 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: My Take:"
John Nash was an American economist and the movie "A Brilliant Mind" was based on his story. He wrote a paper on Non-Cooperative Games that won a Nobel Prize. A poster way back in 2002 wrote how that theory can apply to Survivor. Here is the link to that post:

http://www.tapatalk.com/groups/survivorsucks/john-nash-s-survivor-t10010.html

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sj007 21 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"

04-15-19, 10:59 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: My Take:"
Lol I guess I should've known who he was. Thanks for the link. I think some of his theory does apply but it's more complicated than that. Also when it comes to these reality shows luck has a lot to do with the outcome. Who did you mean is the greatest Survivor winner? And nothing beats the Stanley Cup playoffs!
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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

04-15-19, 06:21 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: My Take:"
The theory is sufficiently sophisticated to answer all situations but people aren't always choosing their best options either through ignorance or in order to please the host. As for the luck factor, most of it comes from production interference (swaps, idols and secret advantages).

I guess you missed it but I ranked the winners here:


http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID1/4635.shtml

I don't have a particular number 1 because there are too many variables to come with a definitive answer.

Maybe seeing the Canadiens winning all those cups when I was young has jaded me but those interminable series are too much to handle. The playoffs have been going on for over a week now and still no one has been eliminated. Compare that to March Madness where there were 68 teams in the brackets on a Tuesday and only 16 were left the very next Sunday. Now that's action!!

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sj007 21 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"

04-17-19, 04:09 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: My Take:"
I agree that winners that had advantages and idols don't get as much cred. So earlier winners should be at the top. I definitely agree with Tom being in top 5. Sandra should be in top 10 because if only she won twice. 2 for 2 is pretty good. Was it Aruba who said something about the greatest survivor ever? Look what just happened in Stanley Cup. The best team during the regular season who tied for most wins in a season and they get swept, nice! As for the Canadiens, they finished with 96 points and didn't make the playoffs. Something is wrong that.
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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

04-17-19, 05:53 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: My Take:"
Well, Sandra is now 2 for 3 but i only rate winners in their first game. Survivor is a game designed to be played by strangers. Its completely different when you involve real life friends.

Also about Sandra, I really enjoyed her wins but it has to be noted that in both cases she won because her strategy failed. In Pearl Islands she wanted to eliminate Fairplay and Lil but would she have won if she had succeeded. Likewise, she entered the merger in HvV wanting to eliminate Hantz but he took her to the end.

For Aruba, nobody equals Tom.

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sj007 21 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"

04-22-19, 01:49 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: My Take:"
I can't argue against Tom. In his win at Palua would've loved to play with him, not so much in H vs V. The heroes played like a bunch of idiot amateurs. Don't know what happened there. I think Sandra would've won easily against assplay. Darrah would've been closer vote. It will be interesting to watch survivors vs big brother on amazing race. But I think I accidentally know who won which does make sense.
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michel2 3338 desperate attention whore postings
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04-22-19, 06:55 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: My Take:"
Yes, the Amazing Race is usually spoiled by Georgia Peach and her people at RFF. At least the F3 is usually always spotted when they arrive in an American Airport for the finale.
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Aruba 3106 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

04-10-19, 06:52 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: My Take:"
I thought my baby sister was the fussiest eater in the world. Move over sis...we found ourselves a bigger fusspot north of the border.

If the game ever lowered its standards to one-hour of social butterflies fluttering their wings, Bashers would become a Forum where you’d be talking to yourself.

David has stronger leg muscles than LoserDog, Rick, Gavin, and Eric? LMAO! Actually, I’m being insensitive to Dan because he probably injured his toes on the battlefield. *snort*
No Michel, that lame IC was all about ballerina toes in relation to one’s body weight; not “leg muscles.”

Agreed, NO WAY I believe Lauren was faking it. Once again, you unfortunately missed my point. Because of all the OTHER obnoxious embellishment that is pathetically allowed to occur, you run the risk of not taking a situation seriously when someone is not faking it and is actually real. Such is the danger of “crying wolf.”

There’s also NO WAY you’ll convince me that you don’t believe medical is RIGHT THERE at each and every challenge, thus the onus is not on the cameramen. That being said, I don’t expect medical to possess any greater mind-reading ability to differentiate between a real situation and just another annoying over-exaggeration.

Everyone is Palau “decided” to let Tom own the season is another amusing example of your silly nonsense. Tomorrow golf’s first Major of the year (Masters at Augusta National) will begin. At the end of the tournament the “cream will rise to the top” for one golfer who will become Masters Champion. HMMM, I guess the player who walks away wearing the green jacket will be the one the other golfers “decided” to let win. LOL. Nash Theory did NOT apply when the greatest Survivor of all time dominated the season on a tribe stockpiled with leaders and wannabe leaders. And to ignorantly criticize anyone who endures a challenge for 12 hours as someone who “simply buckled” is SOOO reprehensible it is an utter waste to even respond other than saying pitiful Production should cast more players who “simply buckle.”

I’ll preface my statement again by saying to each their own...but personally I prefer to not put a whole lot of stock into anything that goes on or is discussed in any Spoiler sites. I was never a fan of Monarch Notes when taking Advanced Placement Honors English in High School. I will consistently follow that same approach when discussing Survivor. Sorry, if some regard that as offensive but I’ll stay true to my approach.

Opening night for NHL Hockey; probably will watch today’s show tomorrow. Catch you on the Episode 8 threads...

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