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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS"
ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:45 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Against.
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 10:55 PM (EST)
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144. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Ditto.
Foo dogs by tribe.
And that said even after reading the many posts here.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:49 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I'm pretty sure this has been tossed about a few time.I'm mostly against it. Yes, there are a few people so evil and damaged and damaging to others that it is outrageous to pay for them to have shelter, food, access to medical care when so many people who are innocent do not have these things. However, in practice it is not saved for the worst of the worst mass murderers and far too many people who are later proved innocent of the crime have ended up on death row. The only good news is it takes so long to kill them that there actually is time for someone to dig up the truth. The bad news is it usually costs us more to kill them than to just feed and shelter them in a supermax facility. So I feel we should either just stop killing inmates altogether, or make the system much more robust so that fewer people end up in a death penalty trial and the standard of evidence needed to get a death sentance is much higher than just life in prison. The problem is I don't see how to limit it permanently. Once you let the state start killing people it always seems that the direction is to broaden out who will be killed rather than keep it very narrow and focused. 
Tribe sprung my spring!
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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:50 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-07 AT 11:53 AM (EST)On the fence...... Is it a deterrent? No, Eye for an eye/some just will do it again? Yes, Always gets the right person who did the crime? No, Can some be reformed? Yes/No, Worth the cost of appeal after appeal vs. in prison for life? Toss up, Makes the victims family feel good? Toss up. So here I sit with a lot of OT people if I remember the last time we talked about this a long time ago.  
Save the Cheerleader Save the World
sig by Pepe and bouncy by IceCat
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geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:55 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Against.I'd like to say I support it, and I used to. But I've spent too much time looking at the statistics on who gets a death sentence (far, far too many African Americans and far too few Caucasians for comfort) and too many people have gotten out after conviction after years of fighting to prove their innocence that I can't condone it any more. Plus, I don't like that it puts us (just like our wonderful torture policy) in the same company as the most disgusting countries in the world. Personally, I don't want to be in the same club as Saudi Arabia. On anything. They are my enemies. 
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Albert Einstein
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txmomma26 5825 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:01 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*takes puppy and hides under the cover of pudding skins*
A Tribephyl work of art
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J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:01 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Throughout my 5+ years here, I think we've actually talked about execution a few dozen times, but I'll repeat what I always say...I'm against it. That said, I think the prison system in this country is deplorable. Way, way too many victimless criminals are in jail, and it's clogging up the space that could put dangerous criminals where they belong. The costs of the prison system are completely redonkulous. Put the worst of criminals away for life - that, I can agree with. Just make it cheaper.
Step right up.
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brvnkrz 20491 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:07 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-07 AT 12:09 PM (EST)For gay marriage.
Pro choice.
On the fence with the Death penalty.
Pro pudding skins.
Pro browsing the archives.
 
Arkie Rocks!!!
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byoffer 15947 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:31 PM (EST)
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71. "RE: One More..." |
Dead Man's PartyThis sounds like something I should know about. Maybe MCatt can be my date!
Defying death since 02 June 06
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miamicatt 9247 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:44 PM (EST)
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177. "RE: OR???" |
Shaddap, the both o' yas.
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:09 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I KNOW this is one of 'those subjects' but.... I really am interested in opinions. If you read the archives, you'll find lots of threads on almost every single one of 'those subjects'. We have gay marriage, abortion, immigration, the 2000 elections, the 2004 elections, The Clintons, Al Sharpton, Pepsi vs Coke, Cats vs Dogs, etc., etc., etc.  
And before anyone gets all up in arms over Augie being mean to the newbie, I'm just saying that everyone should read the archives, especially our newer peeps. There is lots to learn there.
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:12 PM (EST)
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9. "*gets up in arms*" |
Hi Augie. I just wanted a hug, that's why I'm here... in your arms. *giggle*
But I agree, lots can be learned in the archives. Granted there are new voices here that can be heard, but a perusal of the archives never hurt anyone. I still do it time to time.
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:16 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: *gets up in arms*" |
I sure hope I speelt it right.
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:33 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: *gets up in arms*" |
It's one of those words she and Weltek "thought" they invented this weekend.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:21 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
While I agree the archives can be useful, it is hardly practical due the their size. It's just not always that easy. I like that topics are revisited in new threads because there are usually new people who have a chance to post in them who didn't had a chance before. Also, opinions change, like Geg's, and I like knowing that too. 
Tribe rocked my sig!
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:22 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: LMAO" |
Exactly! Some of my best friends are......
Tribe rocked my sig!
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:30 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Agree new voices and changed opinions are good for revisiting topics.
I just wanted to remind peeps that their "recall" should extend to the archives and not just the last couple of weeks.
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:34 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I guess I was really addressing jbug's "I don't recall any thread discussions about executions here on OT" comment. Have we had any death row threads in the last month? No. But we've had them, and many more.Yes, it's great to get fresh perspective on a topic, but when someone new comes along it's usually a good idea to point them to the archives. And to the guidelines. And that is what I just did.
And now I will be going on my merry way. If you need me I'll be in the Lushie thread.
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SilverStar 6205 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:38 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*points up* What Tahj said. I think it is a bit unreasonable to always be telling new people to read the archives. So, what, they should just read old threads and never be able to bring up the subject again, and not be allowed to participate? That wouldn't make for a very fun message board.I have never read the archives. Do I read certain threads every once in awhile? Sure. Do I have the time or patience to sit there and look through every page to find a thread about abortion or the death penalty? Absolutely not! 
Sigs by Bob! Fear and chemistry keep everyone happy!
That said, I'm not sure where I stand on the death penalty. I think I'm against it. Maybe this thread will help me make a decision.
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zombiebaby 7356 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:03 PM (EST)
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60. "Just wonderin'" |
How'd you get your screen name? Love,
Tiny
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Ahtumbreez 10456 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:27 PM (EST)
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145. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
>older posters have pointed out No such thing.
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:54 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Yes, I've read the archives jbug...starting from page 1 to when I first started posting on OT in 2003. Interesting stuff, I tell ya. But I don't really start threads, so I guess my knowledge of the archives is pretty pointless, eh?And yes, new members are certainly free to post whatever they want -- within guidelines of course -- and old members are allowed to post their opinions. *thinks* Right? Right. And yes, opinions change. In fact, I have an opinion that changed. I used to think Tom Cruise was just a whackjob, but now I think he is a nutcase whackjob cheater freak. So, Jbug, no harm, no foul? You forgive an oldtimer?
So, do you like Coke or Pepsi?
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:59 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I saw a very interesting image of Tom Cruise last week. His head is "hung" in your honor.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:03 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
PEACE!
Like I said, I WAS really trying to ask/make points WITHOUT offending anyone, and I would NEVER want to do anything like that to an 'oldtimer". BTW, in 2003, how long had these boards been around? 
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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motormouth 4507 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:27 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
The answer is in the archives. 
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:59 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Given the range of topics discussed on OT I think it would be safe to assume that pretty much every one of those type of topics has been brought up sometime in the past several years. The way you phrased the original post did kinda bother me. Like maybe we were too something or other to have ever bothered to talk about it before. Tinged with a bit of I don't care enough to find out, and that could set people off no matter which end of the pool the topic was floating in. It is OK to revisit topics, I just like when it occurs sort of organically. What was it about the article you posted that brought the subject to mind? Or did you just stick an article in there to justify asking the question? Sometimes starting a topic the way you did can feel like to me like you are just going to stir the pot with a touchy subject just to see what erupts. 'Cause you know with this many peeps on the board we ain't gonna agree on nuttin'. Just a word of warning, parking places for families with kids. ooooh boy, do NOT start that conversation.
Tribe sprung my spring!
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:08 PM (EST)
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42. "Yup" |
Good points.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:33 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Well I'd have started with why this was in my thoughts even if I was confliceted and solicited opinions from there rather than just toss it out there kinda all bare and nekkid.I can't know what your intent was, but the way your post hit me felt a little like a "just to stir the pot" post. Sometimes our intent doesn't shine through in our words very well. No one can predict how another will see those words. I'm sorry if I shouldn't have mentioned how I felt reading your words, I thought it might offer some insight into the reaction you got.
Tribe sprung my spring!
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greenmonstah 10761 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:03 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Let me try to type out a response as I eat my salad nicoise. My feeling has always been, don't like a subject heading of a thread, then don't open it. Keeps my life simple and it means I save my emotional energy for my children and husband. So, no Ms. JBug, I would imagine no topic is ever really closed for discussion/debate. With that being said, you picked a divisive one and one that probably would be better received if maybe you just took your finger off the cap loc for the subject line. That is my hunch. Also, from what I understand the only required reading around here is the guidelines. I don't spend much time trolling archives. But I also understand that some topics need more consideration, in real life and in my on line life. Personally, I would not start a thread with just a link and call for others to state their positions, without stating my thoughts or feelings. But welcome and have fun.
 
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 10:39 PM (EST)
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143. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Yup, likewise. If anything, I've learned to keep an open mind about positions as people share new experiences and viewpoints.
Foo dogs by tribe.
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PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 00:56 AM (EST)
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147. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 01:00 AM (EST)>1. Is there ANYONE who
>really has time to read
>50 million threads and posts
>on the chance that the
>subject has already been discussed? I've posted on about 90% of the pages in the archives and I've scrolled through most of the other threads I haven't posted on, but I still find stuff that I didn't remember seeing before or realizing that we've discussed a topic or two. Truthfully, I don't remember too many capital punishment threads so I was a bit taken back to see some of the old-fart posters above mention that "it's been discussed ad nauseam," etc. Wait. Did I just call myself an old fart? My first post on OT is somewhere around page 10 of the archives, that's how far back I go.
>2. Are any of 'those
>subjects' not worth repeats or
>further discussions? Especially in
>light of a "today" story
>on the subject?
Nahh, don't listen to the other old farts. If you know there hasn't been any recent threads (i.e. nothing on the current 15 pages) on a particular subject and you feel it's an important topic to discuss, don't let anyone stop you. The worst thing that could happen is that nobody decides to reply to the thread. If you can actually post something that 100% of OT denizens would agree on, we'll stop the earth from spinning and give you a plaque documenting the historic moment. *Not.gonna.happen.in.our.lifetimes*
>3. I don't think anyone is
>picking on me as a
>newbie, but if these boards
>are open to new members,
>then shouldn't those new members'
>opinions of "old" subjects be
>welcomed? maybe another newbie
>has not yet shared his/her
>opinion on this. Did anyone give you a noogie on the head? No? Line up, folks. Fresh newbie. Like I said, if there's nothing recent, go ahead. Every major subject has been approached, and even the old farts here re-post some of the same kind of threads again. Ask PRE. He's posted the same kind of threads about 400 times by now, but that has never stopped people from knocking each other down to rebut a point or two.
>4. Do any posters ever
>change their positions on 'those
>subjects' ( alright - leave
>comments about "positions" out -
>or not )
Yup, I've changed positions on certain topics over the years. Once upon a time, believe it or not, I was violently anti-skin on pudding, but now I can tolerate it. I'm still very much against tapioca, though.
  
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:31 PM (EST)
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190. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Tapioca pudding ROCKS!!
 
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Hokiebird 10 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:34 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
A big against. Not a deterrent, more expensive than life imprisonment, and I still try to obey the big ten, so that "Thou shall not kill" thing does kick in. A big PRO for an entire re-haul of what I feel is a horrible penal/justice system. Money should not buy justice. Drug addiction is not a crime. Horrible overcrowding and execreble food do not spell rehabilitation. Oops, the soapbox is cracking now, time to jump off. On a new topic, I'd like to make an exception to my against stand for the guy who thought up those "peel here" cheese twist sticks. I just spent five minutes, using a knife and then scissors, to give DS a snack. I also split a nail. That's grounds for lethal injection, right?
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:39 PM (EST)
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24. "*snort*" |
On a new topic, I'd like to make an exception to my against stand for the guy who thought up those "peel here" cheese twist sticks. I just spent five minutes, using a knife and then scissors, to give DS a snack. I also split a nail. That's grounds for lethal injection, right?
I hate when that happens! Stupid peel here packages. grrrrr
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J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:40 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Reason #7862 why I don't eat cheese:string cheese.
Step right up.
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:36 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-07 AT 12:53 PM (EST)I think that the Constitution is pretty clear in stating that capital punishment is neither cruel nor unusual. I personally do not like it and would have a hard time if on a jury to impose that penalty. I think that it should be rarer than it is today, but I also think that there are cases when it is just, when it serves the public interest and when it potential saves lives. I don't think that it is a deterrent, however I think that the deterrent factor would increase if we had swifter implementation of such sentences. When a jury sees fit to impose the death penalty, it is inconceivable to me that it should take 26 years (in this case) for the convicted to be punished. Are mistakes made? RARE-ly. I am quite sure that for every highly publicized case of an unjustly imprisoned person there are thousands of people who are getting exactly what they deserve. Should the system be reformed to be more accurate? Yes, but I don't believe that it is broken beyond repair. Perhaps I am niave in my trust of our system of justice. Our prison system overall has the titular purpose of reform, correction and deterrence of future crime. Of course, this rarely happens. While the hopeful purpose is deterrence, the actual result is punishment and I do think that there are times when that is the only punishment that makes sense. ETF: gramma 
And puh-lease do not compare these horrible killers who have had 20 years worth of trials, appeals and free meals to innocent unborn children. There is no contradiction in wanting to preserve innocent live and wanting to punish guilty killers.
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:38 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
That should be a "nor" in that first sentence there with that "neither."
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:54 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
People who are locked up forever have the possibility, however remote, of getting out at some point - legitimately or otherwise - and hurting other people. And I don't see a real purpose to allowing certain people to be drags on the taxpayer indefinitely.I would definitely say that I am not an ethusiastic supporter, but I do think that it is a legitimate decision for a jury of peers (which is not specifically 'authority') to make that decision. As I understand it, except in military instances, there is no other way to execute someone other than through a jury trial.
I don't like that federalization of mostly anything, but there are times of national emergency when federally driven responses make sense. It would have been helpful in the case of Katrina to be sure, but it should only be temporary and almost never in times of war.
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Ante Bellum 3762 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:16 PM (EST)
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62. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Splitting up the responsibility for killing someone between 6 or 12 people doesn't reduce the level of responsibility below "murder" level. Plus we all know that juries are infallible.
Handcrafted by RollDdice So, you're going to start protesting the way this war is being run?
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Ante Bellum 3762 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:15 PM (EST)
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101. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I think it's pretty clear that splitting up the responsibility across a jury doesn't reduce it below murder is an argument from the "capital punishment is murder" perspective.
Handcrafted by RollDdice This would be a separate argument from the one above... I guess you have to decide if it's more important to you to "support the troops" (half of whom are supposed to be helping tornado-victim-types, not fighting a damn WAR) or keep the government honest and within the bounds prescribed by the Constitution.
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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:26 PM (EST)
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173. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
well i think it's state sanctioned murder but look at a death certificate of someone executed: cause of death is HOMICIDE
And that's funny your claim that the Constitution says death penalty is not cruel and unusual...i must have missed that part in law school...but even so...it says blacks are just 3/5 a person too..
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:52 PM (EST)
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181. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Maybe I'm missing something, but the 5th Amendment's specific mention of capital crimes seems to imply that there are crimes for which capital punishment is an acceptable legal remedy. Certainly it's much more clear than a constitutional right to abortion. And obviously the Constitution was amended to eliminate the 3/5ths compromise, so the Constitution doesn't say that at all, anymore.
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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:02 PM (EST)
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185. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
no you said the constitution says dp is not cruel and unusual...that is different than stating that dp is mentioned in the constitution...otherwise there would be no 8th am jurisprudence....and the last part was just to show that the constitution is not an infallible text and things written in 1790 maybe don't apply the same today...
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:06 PM (EST)
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187. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
The Bill of Rights was all enacted at once and that same single action enshrined both the ban on cruel and unusual punishment and the existence of capital crimes. I would say that pretty clearly does define capital punishment as not fitting that description.Not to say that there isn't a legislative remedy, but the document and history seem to indicate pretty clearly that the 8th amendment does not prohibit the DP.
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:40 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
For.I guess I should at least give my opinion since I'm here.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:44 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I've said it before and I'll say it again - someone who commits cold-blooded murder thinks that there is no value in human life. Let's prove him wrong by sparing his.
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Hokiebird 10 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:07 PM (EST)
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61. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I like you, Zipperhead.
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:20 PM (EST)
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64. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Mom?
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Hokiebird 10 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:23 PM (EST)
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66. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
You did remember to brush your teeth this morning, didn't you dear?
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:30 PM (EST)
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70. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*fidgeting* Um...yeah...I always do. *looking around* Right before ...I mean, right after breakfast.
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 12:59 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Well, since I brought this up, I guess I'll add my own opinion.
Can I be on the fence?
There are some that I think should be executed immediately (Bundy?) when there is no doubt about guilt and when the crime is almost unspeakable. Then there is this Philip Workman. Convicted of killing a cop (probably what has made this such a high profile case in TN). For YEARS his defense has been that 'maybe' just 'possibly' it was not HIS bullet that hit the cop that died. Yes, there was no doubt that he was there; yes there was no doubt that he did shoot back; yes, he was caught nearby with this gun. So....?? Now, what about the snipers in VA and DC a few years ago?
Just more thoughts.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:20 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
It is undisputed that Workman entered the restaurant at 3275 North Thomas about 10 p.m. Aug. 5, 1981, ordered the employees and a customer into the manager’s office at gunpoint and took nearly $1,200 in cash. Responding to a silent alarm, Oliver arrived just as Workman was exiting the restaurant, they struggled as other officers arrived outside, Workman broke away, shots were fired – including by Workman -- and Oliver was hit in the chest and died. Workman wounded a second officer and shot at a third. The robber was found minutes later hiding in nearby underbrush with a .45-caliber pistol.As you said, no doubt to all these things. There is also no doubt that had Phillip Workman been anywhere else doing anything else (not illegal), then Lt. Oliver would not have died that day as a direct result of Workman's actions. IMHO, whether is was Workman's bullet or not doesn't really matter. It was his actions, his decisions that day that directly led to the death of this officer. 
Sigs by Bob! For the discerning palate!
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:41 PM (EST)
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75. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
..........Lt. Oliver would not have died that day as a direct result of Workman's actions. IMHO, whether is was Workman's bullet or not doesn't really matter. It was his actions, his decisions that day that directly led to the death of this officer.Oh, I agree with you there, Wayne. I was just stating what his lawyers were using as a reason for all the appeals all these many years. Yes, Workman's actions were the direct cause of the officer being killed that day. However, *he* wanted to get somebody, a judge or jury - anybody - to see it *his* way to avoid the death penalty.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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Ice 9 288 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:00 PM (EST)
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38. "Against" |
It is not fair in its application. It is not a deterrent. It does not "undo" the crime. It does not give closure. Most importantly, it does not represent our society at its best. I'm not a big 'eye for an eye' fan. That said, sentences should be longer. Somewhere between 10 years and death the truth lies. It's probably a lot closer to 'life without parole', though each case deserves to be looked at individually. I would also be in the camp of people who think the whole penal system needs a serious overhaul. I guess you could say I'm more of a 'forfeiture of liberties for an eye' fan.
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bystander 4968 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:16 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Going against my better judgement of posting a serious response to this thread I'll say I'm for it in general.As far as archive searching goes...I've tried that in the past... and I've always gotten a server time out and an error message...so I stopped doing it. 
So advanced apologies for the next Beer thread I post.
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arkiegrl 9421 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:23 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*wades into deep end*This is one of those issues that I can't decide on what side of the fence to come down.
On one hand, I do believe there are people out there that do such horrible, vile things that they really don't deserve to live. And I resent my money (as a taxpayer) being used to support such people. But on the other hand, like others have already pointed out, there are people wrongly convicted and sentenced to execution. One person being put to death for a crime he/she didn't commit is one person too many. Plus, if we put someone to death (which sounds so much better than we kill them), then aren't we guilty of committing a crime? I know, it's state sanctioned, and therefore not a crime, but morally, I just have a hard time differentiating between the two.
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dragonflies 8051 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:37 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*floats around next to Arkie*
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:24 PM (EST)
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51. "For." |
Forfeit your humanity, expect your life to follow.
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:53 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: For." |
I honestly don't believe that killing someone in cold blood is "forfeti(ing) your humanity."Otherwise, you would be saying that every bomber pilot or battleship cannon operator is inhuman. Those guys kill pretty indiscriminately and we still award them.
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:46 PM (EST)
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77. "RE: For." |
I would argue that you have to be cold-blooded in those positions to do your job right. When you're lining up your sights and firing off a rocket or shell, you are following orders with the full understanding that what you just did is going to kill people. And you had better be clear-headed about it, or you're going to be off your target and potentially kill many more people. The distance from your target and lack of personal contact with your victim is what makes you cold-blooded. In this instance, I would not equate "cold-blooded" with evil, or inhuman, or anything like that. Cold-blooded just means calm and calculating while harming someone you intend to harm. Like the executioner in a death chamber.
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J I M B O 6839 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:45 PM (EST)
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178. "RE: For." |
I've often pondered the application of "do unto others" in reverse for those who commit crimes. If there were a way to strip the criminal's rights in the exact measure they took from others...that would be justice.So you take away someone's right to life, you forfeit your own. Makes some sense, but unfortunately the golden rule is for each of us to live out on our own. Then "do unto others" actually makes me against killing. Even if I had committed horrible crimes, I wouldn't want to be executed. A tormented soul probably wants a chance that tomorrow will bring a better existence...at least I would, so that's how I would want others to treat me and therefore must treat even the worst of the worst accordingly. May as well lay out my other thought here, which is that prison should be MORE of a deterrant on its own. Particularly for high-security places where the inmates are all severe offenders. No TV, no basketball court, and I see no reason why in the PRISON system there is any place for drugs or gang activity.
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Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-07, 09:57 AM (EST)
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197. "RE: For." |
May as well lay out my other thought here, which is that prison should be MORE of a deterrant on its own. Particularly for high-security places where the inmates are all severe offenders. No TV, no basketball court, and I see no reason why in the PRISON system there is any place for drugs or gang activity.And ultimately, this is the reason I am against the death penalty. I am for, however, far worse. I favor dividing up offenders into five "categories." Needless to say, this mainly covers crimes at the state level or below. Anything randing from theft to speeding to murder. Needless to say, the worse the offense is, the worse we make a person's life. Category 1, just like a hurricane, is the lightest. Steal a shirt, cause a minor traffic accident, etc. Your probably pay a fine and it goes on your record, but no real infringement on freedoms. Category 2 is for people who can't stop committing Category 1 offenses. It's also for stronger offenses, like assault or drunk driving. Selling a product that causes someone to become ill goes here as well. Maybe prison, but likelier, probation and maybe limited house arrest. Category 3 is when it starts getting serious. Manslaughter goes here, as does any form of accidental homicide. Non-sexual and non-lethal domestic abuse goes here as well if it's repeated; if it's an isolated incident, it's treated as normal assault and goes to Category 2. Category 4 is, well, you'd think I wouldn't get into murder here, but I am. Amy Category 4 offense carries a minimum sentence of 25 years in a serious prison. And I mean things here like ordinary rape. Child molestation carries more, and murder is an automatic life sentence without the possibility of parole (to freedom, anyway. There's a chance that the old lifers, if they live that long, would be transferred to a high-security assisted care facility. Kind of like prison, but a little nicer.) Category 5 is for the worst of the worst. I'm talking serial killers, terrorists, serial child molesters, people who keep escaping from high-security prisons, etc. And these people would be subject to the worst conditions. It starts with being in a remote location guarded by the U.S. military itself, and it continues with solitary confinement, no human interaction, a cell that has only a sink and a bucket, a new issue of clothes every week, a shower every month if you're lucky (and even that's done with the prisoner isolated, blindfolded, and at gunpoint,) no windows in the cell, bread and water twice a day through a mail slot in the door that otherwise remains locked, and my personal favorite - subjecting these scum to experimental treatments and testing. Forget testing on animals. We test on prisoners instead. Or we make them donate blood. Or a kidney if we need it. Now that's robbing someone of their humanity. Of course, if we put an innocent person into Category 5, that means serious trouble, but for the offenses that have to be committed to get that far, it's almost certain that only the guilty would go that far. 
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Ante Bellum 3762 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 01:30 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Against. Killing in defense of self or others is one thing, but once you've got them "at your mercy," (and the risk to life and limb is or should be completely eliminated) killing them is murder, plain and simple.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:17 PM (EST)
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63. "This thread" |
Really made me miss Misto. *sigh*
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:31 PM (EST)
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72. "Against" |
Misto is the very reason I'm now against the death penalty. She presented way too compelling an argument, and way too many fact regarding innocent people's executions, for me not to change my views.
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bystander 4968 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:54 PM (EST)
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86. "RE: Against" |
Misto's a peach?!?!? When did THIS happen?Geeze....first CoachTater and now Misto. I think we need to have a peach and banana thread.
Cuz I'm NOT searchin the archives!
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:43 PM (EST)
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176. "RE: Against" |
Misto is not only a peach, she's a HOT peach.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:29 PM (EST)
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189. "RE: Against" |
That turns me on like you would NOT believe!!
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Mon Cherie 1813 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:51 AM (EST)
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149. "*Raises hand*" |
I, too, was a Misto convert after being on the fence on the issue. C'est Moi.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:33 PM (EST)
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192. "RE: *Raises hand*" |
Speaking of hot peaches, Hi, Mon.
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SherpaDave 8326 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:07 PM (EST)
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96. "RE: This thread" |
Exactly what I was thinking.For the record, I'm vehemently against the death penalty: Morally
I believe it's wrong to kill. Period. I believed that as an Agnostic, as a Deist, and I believe it as a Christian. And guess what? So did Jesus. That whole "eye for an eye" thing? Let's read it in context: Matthew 5:38-39
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Any time I hear an alleged Christian spouting "an eye for an eye" when justifying the death penalty, I pretty much assign them mentally to the Dubya sect of mouth-breathers. Logistically
Even assuming that it's okay to kill the most heinous of criminals, it doesn't work that way right now. The overwhelming majority of executions are done to minorities in poverty. Are they the ones committing the overwhelming majority of the most heinous crimes? I doubt it. And there's the fact that we have executed people innocent of the crimes for which they were convicted. Financially
But let's say that our record is and has always been perfect in carrying out the death penalty, that class and race play no part in it and that we'd never executed an innocent man. The actual cost in dollars to the government to perform an execution, from beginning to end of the process, is greater than the cost to incarcerate for life. The death penalty is barbaric and unfairly applied. It is the stuff of Leviticus, the very kind of thing Jesus came to overturn. It should be recognized as the evil and primitive act that it is and abolished accordingly. We are all less human for having it carried out in our names.
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Prof_ Wagstaff 4196 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:55 PM (EST)
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114. "Thank You..." |
...very much.You said everything that I feel about the death penality, but you said it with greater clarity and less emotion than I could have mustered. The death penalty is barbaric and unfairly applied. It is the stuff of Leviticus, the very kind of thing Jesus came to overturn. It should be recognized as the evil and primitive act that it is and abolished accordingly. We are all less human for having it carried out in our names. I particularly like that part.
 
Tribephylanthropy!
When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.-- Sinclair Lewis (1885-1951)
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PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 01:10 AM (EST)
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148. "RE: This thread" |
>Exactly what I was thinking.
>
>For the record, I'm vehemently against
>the death penalty: Maybe not so vehemently, but I'm very much against the death penalty as well. Why give the murderer an easy way out of his predicament? (Personally, I would hate the idea of spending the rest of my life behind bars, having my freedom restricted, so I wouldn't want to live out my years that way)
>Financially
>But let's say that our record
>is and has always been
>perfect in carrying out the
>death penalty, that class and
>race play no part in
>it and that we'd never
>executed an innocent man. The
>actual cost in dollars to
>the government to perform an
>execution, from beginning to end
>of the process, is greater
>than the cost to incarcerate
>for life. That's interesting about the cost from start to end of the process. I've always thought it was insane to spend so much on a criminal. It's one thing to provide a victimless criminal with means to further hir education and give them some basic amenities of life before they're released back into society, but I've always believed that victimizing and hardened criminals should have all 'rights' stripped from them and be forced to live a hard life in prison. One meal a day, limited time outside of their cell, hard labour without interaction with other prisoners, no opportunity to further their education, etc. The cost of incarceration would go down. As far as I'm concerned, committing a hideous crime means you've forfeited your right to a decent life -- if you truly are innocent, let your lawyer work it out to prove the case, but until that happens, you're outta luck.
A Tribe siggie
"Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:01 PM (EST)
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116. "RE: LOL" |
Your blondeness can remain intact, as long as you don't know what it *means*.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:44 PM (EST)
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123. "RE: LOL" |
*smooch* You make my heart smile.
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J I M B O 6839 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 05:24 PM (EST)
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194. "RE: LOL" |
different phonetic spelling...dyke-auto-me gee, wonder why you'd like that word?
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agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:41 PM (EST)
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76. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
There seems to be two aspects of the discussion to address. The first being is it okay to revisit past discussions, the second what is our opinion on the death penalty.
I'll start with the first because I think *fingers crossed* it is the less controversial of the two. I am definitely in favor of any topic(previously seen or not) which elicits a response from brvnkrz, his posts always make me laugh.
Now for the tough question. Am I for or against the death penalty. I have splinters on my butt from sitting on the wooden fence about this one. I change my opinion all the time. Right now I am leaning against it. I would rather see tougher prison reforms and sentences for violent offenders. I just don't see the death penalty as much of a deterent because it takes too long to carry out. I believe the one in question here was over 20 years. 
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HistoryDetective 9516 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:46 PM (EST)
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78. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I am definitely in favor of any topic(previously seen or not) which elicits a response from brvnkrz, his posts always make me laugh.That's why I let him write his own vows at our very special ceremony. 
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:50 PM (EST)
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81. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*snort*
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:07 PM (EST)
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95. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I can understand why agman is confused...you act like a 13 year old boy.Rolly?
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:57 PM (EST)
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87. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*gasp* He lives and breathes! *head tilt* Have you switched sides? Boner will be so disappointed.
Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies.
Shar's World
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:48 PM (EST)
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80. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
pssst... brvnkrz is a peach not a banana.Shar's World
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:57 PM (EST)
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88. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Geez!! Don't tell me you're the one switching now. It's so fricken hard to keep track.
Tribe rocked my sig!
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agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 02:59 PM (EST)
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91. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
sorry about the post! obviously I've either offended someone or made a huge mistake. I simply meant that I happen to think his/her posts are very witty and hilarious......
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:08 PM (EST)
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98. "RE: smooch" |
Yeah, bunch of trouble makers.*sits on the good list of course*
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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arkiegrl 9421 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:15 PM (EST)
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102. "RE: smooch" |
If agman ends up higher on the list than me, I will start posting my photoshop pics on OT.*smooch*
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arkiegrl 9421 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:40 PM (EST)
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110. "RE: Arkie and Boo" |
>I didn't say which list.
>You really want me to post that pic, don't you?
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:04 PM (EST)
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94. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
No, no, no Agman. Don't misunderstand. No one is bashing you, were just playing with you. Knockers is/was? female. No way you would know that. It's all good.
Tribe rocked my sig!
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:10 PM (EST)
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99. "RE: Although" |
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:15 PM (EST)
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103. "RE: Although" |
Hey Augie! Sorry that kinda turned into a minor bashing about the archives. I get ya and would never bash ya. *smooch*Bravie, But it would be so much easier if you just unlocked your profile! I know, I know. Peeps thought I was a *Yikes!* female, too.
Tribe rocked my sig!
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:19 PM (EST)
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106. "RE: Although" |
Tahj, there was nothing about your post that even remotely resembled bashing...at least to me. You and me? We're good.*thumps fist on chest and points to Tahj*
Or whatever the cool peeps do.*big wet sloppy smooch*
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:17 PM (EST)
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105. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I knew it! I always thought *she* smelled like teen spirit!
Tribe rocked my sig!
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brvnkrz 20491 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:21 PM (EST)
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107. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*snort*
Arkie Rocks!!!
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Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:17 PM (EST)
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104. "Against" |
This is actually one of those rare issues that I'm unwavering about. As a pacifist Christian, I simply cannot condone the practice.
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Max Headroom 10069 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 03:41 PM (EST)
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111. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
This one's too deep for me to elaborate, but suffice to say that I'm on the fence. I used to be strongly in favor but my views have changed to where I'm generally opposed.
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:15 PM (EST)
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118. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Don't know that I can list every apology I need to make to try to 'right my wrong' in starting this, but I'll try to hit a few:Sorry for not looking in the archives before starting a new thread about a previously discussed subject (yes, I did go back and find one that was a discussion of "hot' topics that included capital punishment - & I was around when it happened - just forgot - memory & all that you know) Sorry for not stating my position on the issue in my initial post. I didn't know that was expected. Sorry for putting the title all in caps when regular type would have done. I know that all caps within a post is like "screaming' but I didn't know that counted for titles. Sorry for not making it clear that the reason for the initial post was that an execution happened today - not that I was just wanting talk on the subject randomly. Sorry for offending when I truly did not mean to! I guess I just can not figure out how to get ya'll to read between the lines so you know exactly what I mean to say. Sorry for getting something started that caused Agman to call someone a HE that is really a SHE (or was that backwards?) again I know I missed some, but please trust me that I really am not here to cause any problems. Just want a place to discuss issues and have fun on other topics as well.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
Does OT have mentors?
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:56 PM (EST)
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132. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Careful. Sumbody might break out a chainsaw.
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geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:25 PM (EST)
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135. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*yanks on pull cord*BRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! Timber!!!!!
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Albert Einstein
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:29 PM (EST)
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136. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
You know in cartoon world, at this point the tree would fall and the limb would stay up in the air.Your uppance has come!
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:34 PM (EST)
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138. "two words" |
Meep.Meep.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:49 PM (EST)
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125. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
& I was around when it happened - just forgot - memory & all that you know)Gettin' old sucks. Sorry for not stating my position on the issue in my initial post. I didn't know that was expected. It's not. In fact, many folks DON'T post their stance in the initial post in order to not bias the thresd one way or the other. I guess I just can not figure out how to get ya'll to read between the lines so you know exactly what I mean to say. Ah, screw 'em if they can't take a joke. I really am not here to cause any problems. Where's the fun in that?!?!
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:52 PM (EST)
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129. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
*smooch*
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 09:01 AM (EST)
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151. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
## clunk ##I almost just fainted! I think this is my very first *smooch*.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
running off to get a cold cloth and the smelling salts****
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geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:51 PM (EST)
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128. "*takes jbug by the hand*" |
It's fairly easy, but you've gotten off to a rough start, I must say.First, realize that you're going to offend some people here, no matter what. Believe me, we all have at one point or another simply because we're such a diverse group. And some of us are quite outspoken. Some advice from someone who regularly pisses people off: 1) Never apologize for someone else's mistake. No need. We don't blame you. 2) Using all caps is like shouting. It doesn't matter whether or not it's the subject line. It's still shouting. 3) I'd suggest that when you have a topic like you did today, you have a link in your post to whatever it was that inspired the post. That way, we have automatic context. 4) I, like many, have always had trouble searching the archives. So I don't do it. And, I have to admit, with this particular subject, my views have changed over time. Part of it is from discussions here on OT and part of it is just other research I've done that was often inspired by what someone here on OT has said. So, I wouldn't worry much if the topic's been discussed. Some things are Big Subjects and should be discussed over and over and over. I think most of us are okay with that. Those that aren't, I'm sure, will just not open the thread. 5) Believe me, you'll never get everyone here to read between the lines to your meaning. I know that from personal experience. But if you are as up front about exactly what it is you're getting at as you can possibly be, you can avoid some misunderstandings. Just don't expect to avoid them all. You're fine. And you'll catch on. I, for one, am glad to have you here.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Albert Einstein
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 04:55 PM (EST)
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131. "RE: *takes jbug by the hand*" |
And some of us are quite outspoken. *slaps hand across mouth* Mmmmmphphphph. 3) I'd suggest that when you have a topic like you did today, you have a link in your post to whatever it was that inspired the post. *points up* There is such a link.
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geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:16 PM (EST)
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133. "RE: *takes jbug by the hand*" |
>*points up* There is such a
>link. You're right. But this isn't the first time she's been misunderstood. So......I guess I'm just giving general advice. I don't think she has always had a link and it has sent the thread in directions she didn't mean it to go. Anyway, I totally got what she was after in this thread. But not everyone did and some of that may have been because of previous misunderstandings.
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." Albert Einstein
*pfffffffft*
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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:38 PM (EST)
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140. "RE: *takes jbug by the hand*" |
Definitely agreed on #4. I simply don't search the archives any more because when I do, I get a timeout error everytime. Plus, on hot button issues like this, opinions can and do change.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 06:31 PM (EST)
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141. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Sorry if I was hard on you.Just it helps sometimes to have a little context (you don't need a whole thesis written out about it) it helps people see where you are coming from. Particularly when it concerns topics that deeply divide people.
Tribe sprung my spring!
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 07:09 AM (EST)
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150. "Jbug..." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 08:04 AM (EST)And to follow Snidget (because she truly hit the nail on the head in her post #37 as to what I was trying to say but couldn't express very well)... Please consider that if people are consistently misunderstanding your messages or your intentions, it's probably not so much the readers of the message, but the delivery of the message. Joining an established community is hard. We've all been new. Takes a while to find the right "voice", the right way to settle in. You have to understand that most of us have been here for a long time -- take a peek at those DAW counts. When I first got here in 2003 no one was over 10,000. No one. Geez, I don't think anyone was over 5,000 at that time. My suggestion to read the archives is just a way for newer folks to learn about us oldtimers, to learn about the community you and they have chosen to join. I think your initial comment about "not seeing this anywhere else on OT" struck me wrong and, like Snidget said, made it seem like you just assumed it had never been addressed. Like you didn't take the time to bother to learn about us. We are quite a diverse group of people who have been through a lot of bad times--deaths of loved ones (personally, my Mom died this past December), disasters (did you know one of our members lost everything in Katrina, including his brother?), we've lost members of our community --greeneyes, SkyRaider-- job losses, divorces, loved ones deployed to Iraq, etc. Good times too--marriages, births, adoptions, new jobs, new homes, vacations, graduations, etc. As a community we have chosen to travel and meet each other...the pictures of the peep meets are in the archives and are some of my favorite threads. Personally I have had the great pleasure of meeting many members of this community and it has brought much joy to my life. I can't imagine my life without these people in it. New people are always welcome because it brings a new energy and perspective to this already established community, you included. So, enjoy OT, Jbug. I hope you come to love it as much as the rest of us.
In fact, I predict one day soon you'll be gently nudging some new poster towards the archives. edited for spelling
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foonermints 14531 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:22 PM (EST)
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134. "RE: death" |
Yes. We have somewhat of a military background. No problem with killing people. Harsh? Yes.
You are standing where I am about to shoot.
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AugustGirl 11534 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 09:09 AM (EST)
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155. "RE: death" |
"New Bern used to be the home of the nearest Costco...now we're preparing to be attacked by them. This day can't get any weirder."Best line so far.RIP Johnson
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Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 05:35 PM (EST)
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139. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-09-07 AT 05:41 PM (EST)Generally against with exceptions. I will not support the death penalty unless the following qualifications are met A) The crime committed is either murder (meaning coldblooded, pre-meditated, and unrepentant), or in specific cases, treason. Basically, if the crime does not cause a death or has rammifications that would cause death, then the punishment would outweigh the crime. As horrific as rape is (personally, if you remove ALL context, I think it's the worst of all crimes. I see no realistic justification for it), it isn't at the level with context added. B) The person doing it was not under outside durress at the time. C) The person has been shown to be rational and mentally stable. D) The person has the capability to influence such people from within a jail cell (max. security) as to threaten the lives of others by proxy (such as some significant mob bosses, those with classified information, etc.). Basically, they have to show me they are a threat from within a jail cell. If it could be proven that every criminal who is i) Eligible for the Death Penalty
and
ii) Is not executed) has an average of 1.0 deaths committed after he is incarcerated, then I'd be more receptive. E) The person has to be, 100% without any doubt, guilty as charged. I would want witnesses to the crime, DNA evidence on a weapon, tape recordings (audio for treason or video for murder), or some sort of irrefutable evidence. We'll never really be able to inflict the death penalty on people at a 100% guilt rate, but it has to be minimized. There are degrees of likelyhood too. A terrorist or serial murderer would be more prime for such punishment than would a man who kills another in the heat of a fight. Basically, I don't feel like the government (any branch) should have control over whether a person lives or dies, but I can make such a sacrifice for special cases. And for what it's worth, I don't consider the Death Penalty cruel. It's probably less cruel than what most people will go through when dying. I just have a personal issue with one human killing another.
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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 08:09 PM (EST)
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142. "Against" |
I used to be for it, but I had a hard time justifying it with my pro-life stance. I do, however, believe they should get life, without parole; and bring back hard labor. 
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mysticwolf 10692 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-07, 11:40 PM (EST)
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146. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
I'm also sitting with a fencepost in my a$$. But, I lean against. For all the reasons that others heve given... unfairness of application, unreliable juries/testimony, eventual proof of innocence in many cases, yada yada.But, mostly, I keep coming back to Manson. It may not be the best reason, so sue me. But, if Charles Manson is still alive and well, his welfare paid for with taxpayer dollars, his sentence commuted after he was sentenced to die because of a change in State law - reversed at a later date, bt his sentence not reinstated... If any man in this country deserved to die for his crimes it was him. If he got a second chance, and gets to keep running his hate-filled, manipulative, mouth, the others should get the same consideration. Talk about double-standards.  Tribe sent springtime flowers! blogging's scary
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aquariaqueen 2616 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 10:11 AM (EST)
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158. "Hmmm....." |
So many of you would allow a serial killer/rapist/child abuser to live, but you don't have any problem killing an unborn child?Hmmm.... 
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 10:25 AM (EST)
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160. "RE: Hmmm....." |
Pro-choice for me doesn't include having no problem with the death.I'd prefer no one ever have an abortion, but I understand that there are circumstances where someone ends up having to make that choice. I'd rather have rare safe and legal abortions then rare unsafe back alley abortions. Making them illegal won't make them go away, I'm not sure it will change the abortion rate all that much. Desperate people who can't get one legally will still find a way to get them. Those that are rich will have safer options than those that are poor. It's like I have a problem with drugs, but I think that legalizing them and regulating them is better than having them distributed by criminals. Making drugs (or alcohol back in the day) illegal hasn't really done much to stop people from doing it. I always wonder why some who are opposed to abortion are also sometimes opposed to all things that would reduce unwanted pregnancy.
Tribe sprung my spring!
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SherpaDave 8326 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 12:13 PM (EST)
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161. "RE: Hmmm....." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 12:16 PM (EST)It's not a child. It's a fetus. One in three of which aborts naturally (i.e., miscarries). It's a fallacious comparison. And to say that those of us who are pro-choice "don't have any problem" with abortion is, in and of itself, completely false, not to mention hugely offensive. (edited to change a word that doesn't actually exist; dammit, fallacial sounded good at the time)
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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 12:16 PM (EST)
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162. "Ditto" |
*clinks beer mugs with Dave*
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 12:20 PM (EST)
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163. "RE: Hmmm....." |
One in three of which aborts naturally (i.e., miscarries)Not to get into a whole new issue, but do you have real evidence of this '1 in 3'? Just saying, tho in the realm of people I know there have been some miscarriages, there have not been anywhere near 1 in 3. Guess people I know are just lucky; fortunate; BLESSED.
Handcrafted by RollDdice
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 02:29 PM (EST)
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168. "RE: Hmmm....." |
FWIW - this is what my doc told me when I had a miscarriage 10 years ago. He said that actual documentation is skewed because of the number of miscarriages that go undetected as you described. My sister is also a labor/delivery nurse (now heads the women's health department at her local hospital) and she concurs with this statistic of 1 in 3 pregnancies ending in miscarriage.I'm not supporting abortion but those stats are correct according to the health professionals I have come in contact with.
Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies. Shar's World
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 02:50 PM (EST)
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171. "RE: Hmmm....." |
From what I was able to find, the rate of 20% only applies to older women who get pregnant. The incidence of pregnancy loss is around 2% for women 31 and under. Without doing the research, I would guess that well over 50% of pregnancies occur in people in that demographic.http://www.ohiorepromed.com/miscarrg.htm
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, hear the lamentations of their women.
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:50 PM (EST)
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180. "RE: Hmmm....." |
Those statistics don't seem to match any of the other sites that I have found and what I have read and heard from doctors and nurses over the years."INCIDENCE — Miscarriage in early pregnancy is very common. Studies show that about 10 to 20 percent of women who know they are pregnant have a miscarriage some time before 20 weeks of pregnancy; 80 percent of these occur in the first 12 weeks. But the actual rate of miscarriage is even higher since many women have very early miscarriages without ever realizing that they are pregnant. One study that followed women's hormone levels every day in order to detect very early pregnancy found a total pregnancy loss rate of 31 percent." http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?file=pregnan/5386
Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies.
Shar's World
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:03 PM (EST)
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186. "RE: Hmmm....." |
They used a particular group of patients. I followed the links from your linkhttp://tinyurl.com/3822kp "PATIENTS: One hundred eighty-six previously infertile women 20 to 43 years of age undergoing ovulation induction. " "We analyzed 201 clinical pregnancies in which cardiac activity had been documented by transvaginal US 35 to 42 days after ovulation in a previously infertile population" I think most of the 1 in 3 is from the moment you can detect a pregnancy, which is much earlier than 35 days. The earlier you start looking at the pregnant woman, the higher the rate of failure. I think I remember that when very early detection of pregnancy was possible they were pretty shocked by how many woman lose the pregnancy in the first few days to first few weeks. This includes woman who normally wouldn't know they were pregnant because they lost the baby early enough that without the early tests they would have just thought their period was on schedule to a few days late.
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agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 02:53 PM (EST)
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172. "RE: Hmmm....." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 02:54 PM (EST)>You obviously didn't get the memo.
>We're a bunch of baby
>killers. Or so we've been
>told.
I don't know if this will mean much comming from someone who until yesterday thought you were a dude, but....I am one person who does not share that opinion and I'm sorry that people have that attitude.... 
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:55 PM (EST)
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183. "RE: Hmmm....." |
The short answer is - lots.
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 04:11 PM (EST)
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188. "RE: Hmmm....." |
Aquariaqueen says "So many of you would allow a serial killer/rapist/child abuser to live, but you don't have any problem killing an unborn child?"PRE's response "The short answer is - lots." I haven't been a part of many of the discussions on this forum concerning abortion so I don't know all that has gone before. But I do know that some very harsh words and characterizations have been exchanged in the past. FWIW - I consider myself pro-life. But I also know that there are sometimes circumstances to be considered in making the choice to have an abortion such as rape, incest, health of the mother, etc. I would venture to guess that none of the women on this board who have either considered or had an abortion "had no problem". I know that when I was faced with the choice it was agony. I did not make the choice to have an abortion but I have met plenty of women who did and it was not a decision that they came to lightly. I just don't like what is implied about people on this forum when discussions like this begin. I may not agree with them but I certainly have gotten to know them well enough to respect them and their reasoning.
Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies.
It's time to save the world. Shar's World
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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 05:48 PM (EST)
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195. "RE: Hmmm....." |
Thank you, Sharnina, for such a civil and thoughtful reply. I truly appreciate it. I find the statement by AQ really quite insulting and inflamatory and I have no respect for someone who would toss a grenade like that out and then disappear. It's cowardly.
Tribe rocked my sig!
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sharnina 3083 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 02:30 PM (EST)
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169. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-10-07 AT 03:39 PM (EST)I suppose I should add that I support the death penalty in some cases. Others have stated it better than I can so I will leave it at that.
Save the cheerleader, save the world.
Are you on the list? Someone flies, someone dies. Shar's World
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mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings
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05-10-07, 03:55 PM (EST)
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184. "RE: DEATH ROW - EXECUTIONS" |
Opposed except in cases of incontrovertible proof. Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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