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"What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 01:51 PM (EST)
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"What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
LAST EDITED ON 10-31-03 AT 04:36 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 10-30-03 AT 02:08 PM (EST)

Edited to change Rhino/Osten:

I was pondering this last night as I re-watched the past 5 episodes. I know it is kind of reverse speculation, but I think you will find it interesting none the less, and it may help us to speculate further into the future.

Here in my opinion is what the Drake tribe has lost since deciding to "throw" the chess/checkers IC. (All speculation below is done with the knowledge that you can not sit out the same players for back to back challenges)

1. If they had not thrown the challenge, would they have won it? I believe that yes they would. It was close even though Rupe, Trish, and Burton sat out and they threw it. But, if they had tried to win it, and had Rupe, Jon, Shawn, Christa, and Michelle competing I believe they would have easily won.

2. So if they hadn't thrown the challenge, would the extra reward for winning the IC to kidnap a player from the other tribe still have existed? I do not think so. I think MB got wind of Drake wanting to throw the IC, so it was added in to penalize them, and to try to show future survivors that throwing challenges is a stupid idea. Not to mention add some strength to the pathetic Morgan tribe.

Edited 10/31 to add the following:
I found this from VerucaSalt in a thread reagarding the press conference:
The producers did not know that Drake was going to throw the chess challenge and therefore did not purposely make that challenge the kidnap reward. Meaning a Morgan would have gone to Drake if Drake had won

So in that case my statement above in 2 would change slightly to say that by throwing the challenge they also screwed themselves out of "kidnapping" a Morgan, they probably would have taken Savage since at that point he was clearly their leader. Or wouldn't it have been funny if they took Osten for his presumed strength? (end of edit)

3. If Morgan had gone to EP4 TC, who would they have voted off? Most likely Darrah, leaving Osten, Andrew, Rhino, and Tijuana.

4. Would Morgan have won the next RC on their own? A resounding NO. RC of EP5 was the boat race/ diving to get the ladder pieces that Rupert practically won it single handedly for Morgan. It would have been Drake (Rupert-paddle & diving, Sandra & Burton- paddling, and Trish-steering) vs Morgan (Rhino- paddling & diving, Osten & Tijuana- paddling, Andrew- steering). Not to mention that Morgan would have had 3 more days without food (since Rupert had provided them with fish), they would have had their shelter ruined by the waves, or at least had to expend energy putting up more sand and log barriers (since Rupert helped them move shelter), and they would have been on a losing streak with demoralized spirit of 7 challenges in a row.

5. So Drake wins the RC of the shower, towels, soaps, raincoats, pots, carrying jugs, etc instead of Morgan. (plus Morgan doesn't get to loot the rice) Drake would also get to loot 1 item. Say Jon goes for Drake, and takes their pot to cripple them (it would have been their last one) or maybe just a canteen or the machete, (I mean what else can you take from them if it got to this point...the pelican ).

6. Would Morgan still have won the EP5 IC of the smoothee bar? If they kept the same rules, that nobody sits out, its now 8 vs 4. That means that all members of Morgan would have to go twice just to complete the first round. Their stomaches have gotten smaller since being out there 15 days, so if all was still tied after going twice through, lets say the tie breaker is between Tijuana and Sandra. Would Tij be able to keep down a 3rd shake? Plus the sardine? I doubt it, Sandra barely lost to Darrah when they each had the same amount in their tummies. Drake wins this in my opinion.

7. Now Morgan has to vote off either Osten or Rhino. I believe Andrew and Tijuana have a very close alliance from all that I have seen. I also believe that if it had gotten to this point in the game and Morgan having to decide between those 2, it would be bye bye Osten.

8. That brings us to last weeks EP6. The RC was shooting the cannons at targets for thick juicy steaks, spices, and lobsters. Drake won this one, and with 8 players their biggest decision would have to be who to sit out.

9. EP6 IC was the one with the weights being put on the bars. With only 3 Morgans, I think they would have had to had a different challenge. Maybe it would have been 2 loaders vs 1 loadee in a standoff. If that was so, then the standoff would have been between Rupe and Andrew. Pretty sure Drake would win this one too.

I think you get the picture that when Drake threw the challenge they really screwed themselves out of a real pagonging of the remaining Morgans. Maybe MB would have thrown something else in to shake up the balance if indeed Drake continued to win, but who knows.

I also believe that the big twist with the GT was going to happen no matter what, but how that would have played out with 8 Drakes, 2 Morgans, and a GT made up of 6 Morgans, I'm not sure. So from a watching standpoint, I am sooooooo glad Drake threw the challenge.

So what does the future hold for Drake now that they can't turn back time? Going into the merge after losing Shawn and Osten tonight and resurrecting Lill and Burton, we will have the following 10 players:
Andrew, Rhino, Tijuana, Darrah, Lill, Rupert, Christa, Sandra, Burton, and Jon. (5 of each original tribe)

Andrew and Tijuana are tight, Rupert, Christa, and Sandra are tight. That leaves Rhino, Darrah, Burton, Lill, and Johnny Fairplay as outsiders that need to bond with somebody.

Rhino and Darrah would remain loyal to the Morgan's. Burton could easily side with them too since he may not like the way he was cast off. Lill seems like maybe a forgiving person who might not hold a grudge against Andrew since he is real good about selling himself. I see Johnny Fairplay as the first boot from the merged tribe and doesn't make the jury. After that I see them going in about this order:
Rupert, Burton, Christa, Rhino (because Sandra won IC), Sandra, Tijuana, Andrew, Lill (UTR), Darrah (UTR- and picks Lill because she thinks would have a better chance to win rather then Andrew, she already had beat Lill in EP3 voting after all).

IMO- The Drake throwing of the challenge will go down in Survivor history as one of the biggest game blunders. The Drake tribe will make the survivor hall of shame.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... LeftPinky 10-30-03 1
   RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... frisky 10-30-03 2
 Wow...Great Job anninvt2002 10-30-03 3
   RE: Wow...Great Job KObrien_fan 10-30-03 4
       Yes... anninvt2002 10-30-03 6
           RE: Yes... KObrien_fan 10-30-03 11
 RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... PepeLePew13 10-30-03 5
   RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... LeftPinky 10-30-03 7
 RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... Blow by Blow 10-30-03 8
 RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... Brownroach 10-30-03 9
   RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... KObrien_fan 10-30-03 10
       RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... Brownroach 10-31-03 13
 RE: What did Drake lose so far by t... Spanky68 10-31-03 12

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LeftPinky 4150 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 02:39 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
Interesting to read the way you look at it... I think you are fairly close to correct! At this point, there should be 8 Drakes and 2 Morgans and it would be a significantly different game. It just goes to show that lack of food seems to effect everyone's brains. Even if they profess to be big Survivor fans, they don't understand how to play to win.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 02:57 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
>It just goes to show that lack of food seems to effect everyone's brains.

...and how the experience of winning can improve performance in future challenges. Jiffy was trying to explain this phenomenon to the Drunks, but they (minus Rupert) rejected the notion, agreeing instead with Michelle who said "that's a load of crap."

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anninvt2002 86 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 03:03 PM (EST)
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3. "Wow...Great Job"
Couple things.....
1. You either are very wealthy and do not work, therefore having an abundance of time to rewatch all 5 episodes or...\

2. You are MB in disguise, afterall, halloween is tomorrow....

Great thought process. You should sign up for SOTS...Great Job.

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 03:12 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Wow...Great Job"
Thanks Ann! Actually, I do have a very nice job, but this season is a fun one to really get into. I usually watch each episode 3-4 times each week before the next one comes out. I had a sleepless night last night so I put the tape in the VCR and just ran through them all again.

I did consider putting my name in for SOTS, but figured there were way more experienced spoilers who would get the nod, and my time varies extremely from week to week.

And no, I am not MB in disguise, lol...though I wouldn't mind meeting JP

Do you live in VT?

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anninvt2002 86 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 04:39 PM (EST)
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6. "Yes..."
Yes. Home state of the BEST survivor player and proud of it. I think she should have won. We are about the same age and I admire her for going as far as she did. Seriously, you should sign up for SOTS. You write very logically and organzied. BR and Krautboy would be proud of you and of course MIsto...only if include a pelican in your bio...
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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 06:48 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Yes..."
I too am from VT and though I haven't met KO yet, I know that some day soon I will email her again and buy her a beer and talk to her. I want to know one thing. In the challenge where they had to answer questions and then chop the ropes of the bags of the other players (in which the Rotu 4 showed their hand), did she realize what was up and answer the questions wrong so that she wouldn't have to offend anybody? I think she did, the questions weren't that hard and she is smart and missed practically all of them...

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 04:00 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"

>IMO- The Drake throwing of the
>challenge will go down in
>Survivor history as one of
>the biggest game blunders.
>The Drake tribe will make
>the survivor hall of shame.

I'm way behind on my spoiler reading, but I'm wondering if this might have something to do with the Big Regret? A Drake openly expresses his/her regret at how control of the game has gotten away from them? Just a thought...

Nice analysis, KOB!


Click here to rank all 96 Survivors!

Heidi: My biggest assets to the tribe are my athletic skills and my intelligence. I've lost one of them.
Jiffy: Which one?

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LeftPinky 4150 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 04:56 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
Very interesting thought on a big regret...

Had the challenge not been thrown and things fell into place as listed above, a Drake had to have won the whole thing (with 8 Drakes and 2 Morons at the merge, no Moron had a chance to win). And it is something that they would regret more and more as time went on - assuming that they were bright enough to put together the scenerio above - not realizing what they had done until it was way too late.

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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 05:15 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
Wow, that's a damn exhaustive analysis. Get a life (kidding, I tend to write mega posts too).

Rupert going to Morgan for two days, helping them win their first legit challenge and showing them how to fish and otherwise be productive was the defining event of this season of Survivor.

I can't completely agree that Drake would have won the checkers challenge if they had only tried, but it's likely. More importantly, if they hadn't talked of throwing the challenge, MB wouldn't have rigged the game to allow Morgan to steal Rupert. With no discussion of throwing the game I'm absolutely certain that twist wouldn't have been added.

Which takes us to the rest of your speculation and I agree that Drake would have kept rolling through the other ICs. MB would have done whatever he could do to get Drake to lose an IC or just merge early. With a decimated Morgan tribe, MB probably wouldn't have had a tradition gross-food challenge. He probably would have allowed Morgan to pick one Drake member who had to participate and Drake would pick the other three. That way full bellies wouldn't have had such an impact.

Anyway, great analysis. If Drake's don't make f2, this will truly be a legendary screw up.

-P

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 05:32 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
I think you're spot on with what would have happened up to now if the Drakes hadn't thrown the IC. Given your scenario, Burton may have been able to put his strength alliance together post-merge after all, by pulling in Rupert and Andrew, and possibly Ryan O or Osten if they returned to play. Ironic.

I do think the Twist would have to be reworked somewhat if there were such an imbalance between the tribe numbers at this point.

I have a feeling the tribal alliances are going to melt away after the merge. The friendly relationship between Andrew and Rupert will cause them both to be targeted early, I suspect.

And I agree with anninv that you would write a good SOTS.


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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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10-30-03, 05:40 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
>And I agree with anninv that
>you would write a good
>SOTS.

Thank you BR, thems powerful words from a veteran spoiler that I accept humbly. Unfortunately looks like the slots for the SOTS are full for S7...so keep me in mind for the all star edition, I'd like to have my DAW level up to a respectable level by then too

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-03, 05:04 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
so keep me in mind for the all star edition

Just be sure to tell Sleeeve when he starts his thread asking for volunteers.


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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-03, 12:05 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: What did Drake lose so far by throwing the challenge?"
Thanks for taking the time to write this down. I had seen bits and pieces of this picture, but hadn't sat down to put it together or thought it through this far.

Until the episode last night, I was SURE that the thrown challenge would be the big regret. And though I'm pretty sure JP was talking about Osten's quitting, I think that this still fits the scenario better.

I agree with you 100% that things would likely have unfolded this way unless MB started rigging challenges to keep some Morons around. Of course, he could also have reshuffled the tribes like S5 & S6, too.

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