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"Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"	09-18-03, 11:28 AM (EST)
"Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"
Okay, I've got a couple of thoughts here and we were going off on a tangent in the "near drowning" thread so I figured I'd start a new thread to make everything a little easier to follow. I'd like us to expand our thinking of the "big lie" (known heretofore as BL) I think back to the lie that Jeri told about Kel and the beef jerkey. (okay that wasn't a full out lie, but she did milk it to get him booted). So if we're going to take Jeff at his word (which is most often a mistake, I admit!) then let's look at his quotes: "There is the greatest lie ever told in 'Survivor' this season. It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant...My first reaction was, 'M- - - - -f- - - - -.' " For the sake of the calendar spoilers, this morning on the Emmy Award Announcements Post Show on E!, Jeff Probst announced that today was day 25 (their time) of shooting. He said they had about 20 days left there. He also said two noteworthy 'events' have happened that have never happened on Survivor before. JP said the "greatest lie ever told" was on this season he also said there was "some regret." But emphasized regret. Elliot asked about the Ghandia-Ted incident and JP said this "regret" tops even that because with the Ghandia-Ted thing, you could at least play it off as happening in your sleep. Probst says Dalton, an art consultant from Virginia, takes the prize for "squirreliest" contestant ever. He's responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor," says Probst, who's heard a few whoppers.... It leads to the "biggest regret" and "the most dramatic, impactful twist yet," he says. Hey -- we thought Dalton told the biggest whopper. RRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrr! Looking at these Probst quotes I'm going to put forth some random thoughts. First off we can know from the second Probst quote that the 2 noteworthy "events" happen on or before day 19 (quote: "He said they had about 20 days left there. He also said two noteworthy 'events' have happened that have never happened on Survivor before.") This would mean that the "Big Twist" (known heretofore at "BT") AND the BL have already happened. Since Veruca has brought us the information that Jon is responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor.." we can guess that Jon sticks around for awhile to be able to not only tell the lie but then "regret" it. We're talking about someone getting back into the game. An older woman. The only older woman on Jon's tribe would be Trish. Could we be looking at something that Jon tells his tribemates regarding Trish that gets her voted off (and fairly early)? Something that would cause Probst to say "It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant...My first reaction was, 'M- - - - -f- - - - -."? Then Jon would live to regret it when Trish is given the chance to come back with the BT. Trish is then able to use that BL against him and get his butt voted off. Thoughts? Comments? Additions? Subtractions? --now has a headache from thinking too much
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Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion KeithFan 09-18-03 1

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion AZ_Leo 09-18-03 2

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion FarmBoy 09-18-03 3

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-18-03 5

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 7

           What about the confessionals? princessoftides 09-18-03 11

               RE: What about the confessionals? VerucaSalt 09-18-03 16

                   RE: What about the confessionals? princessoftides 09-18-03 20

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion FarmBoy 09-18-03 34

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Cathy the Canadian 09-18-03 23

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion rnabring 09-18-03 4

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 6

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion smrtNsassybnkr 09-18-03 8

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Amily 09-18-03 13

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion smrtNsassybnkr 09-18-03 24

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion FarmBoy 09-18-03 35

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion tamarama 09-18-03 9

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion AZ_Leo 09-18-03 10

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 12

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion AZ_Leo 09-18-03 14

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Jims02 09-18-03 15

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion smrtNsassybnkr 09-18-03 17

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Rothschild 09-18-03 18

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion FarmBoy 09-18-03 37

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-18-03 19

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Krautboy 09-18-03 21

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-18-03 22

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion smrtNsassybnkr 09-18-03 25

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion kykate 09-18-03 26

                   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion tamarama 09-18-03 29

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion princessoftides 09-18-03 27

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Krautboy 09-18-03 28

                   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Brownroach 09-18-03 30

                   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-18-03 31

                       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Amily 09-18-03 33

                   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 32

                       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion FarmBoy 09-18-03 38

                       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion KeithFan 09-20-03 73

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 36

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion tamarama 09-18-03 39

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-18-03 40

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 41

               RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion TeamJoisey 09-20-03 71

                   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-22-03 88

           How about the other way around? tamarama 09-18-03 42

               RE: How about the other way around? mistofleas 09-18-03 43

                   (off topic) tamarama 09-18-03 44

                   RE: How about the other way around? Brownroach 09-18-03 45

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion ParkGirl 09-18-03 46

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion ginger 09-18-03 47

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion ginger 09-18-03 48

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion silentJ 09-18-03 49

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mistofleas 09-18-03 50

Is Lil really a Troop Leader? colleenwannabe 09-19-03 51

   RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? anninvt2002 09-19-03 52

       RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? anninvt2002 09-19-03 53

       RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? Draco Malfoy 09-19-03 54

       RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? Booted 09-19-03 55

           RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? jkokoj 09-19-03 56

               RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? rnabring 09-19-03 58

   RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? FarmBoy 09-19-03 57

   RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? Quali 09-19-03 59

   RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader? ImNext 09-21-03 76

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Brownroach 09-19-03 60

   HEY! princessoftides 09-19-03 61

       It IS Tijuana, but something smells... princessoftides 09-19-03 62

           RE: It IS Tijuana, but something sm... VerucaSalt 09-19-03 64

               RE: It IS Tijuana, but something sm... tamarama 09-19-03 66

       RE: HEY! Brownroach 09-19-03 63

           RE: HEY! ShowMeTheWinner 09-20-03 67

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Acawap 09-19-03 65

       RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion SnowBunny 09-20-03 68

           RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Debster 09-20-03 69

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion mavsfan 09-20-03 70

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion SnowBunny 09-21-03 74

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion aardvark_3 09-22-03 79

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Joyful 09-20-03 72

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Jims02 09-21-03 75

Random thoughts... PhoenixMons 09-21-03 77

Big Lie about Occupation? Krautboy 09-21-03 78

   RE: Big Lie about Occupation? VerucaSalt 09-22-03 80

       RE: Big Lie about Occupation? Loree 09-22-03 82

           RE: Big Lie about Occupation? VerucaSalt 09-22-03 83

               RE: Big Lie about Occupation? Loree 09-22-03 86

                   RE: Big Lie about Occupation? reckhard 09-22-03 89

                       RE: Big Lie about Occupation? DoodleBug 09-22-03 92

   Big Twist Possibility Chez 09-22-03 81

       JP's words.... smrtNsassybnkr 09-22-03 84

           RE: JP's words.... weltek 09-22-03 85

       Tiebreaker Jims02 09-22-03 87

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Oscirus 09-22-03 90

RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion Acawap 09-22-03 91

   RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion VerucaSalt 09-25-03 93

       Reporter Confession or Coverup? mistofleas 09-25-03 94

           RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? Krautboy 09-25-03 95

               RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? VerucaSalt 09-25-03 96

                   RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? Brownroach 09-25-03 97

                       RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? tamarama 09-25-03 108

                   RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? VolcanicGlass 09-25-03 98

                       RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? tamarama 09-25-03 106

           RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup? TeamJoisey 09-25-03 100

   SF Radio station "big twist" citygirl 09-25-03 99

       RE: SF Radio station "big twist" TeamJoisey 09-25-03 101

           RE: SF Radio station "big twist" LeftPinky 09-25-03 102

               RE: SF Radio station "big twist" Brownroach 09-25-03 103

                   RE: SF Radio station "big twist" mistofleas 09-25-03 104

                       RE: SF Radio station "big twist" Brownroach 09-25-03 105

Starting a new thread mistofleas 09-25-03 107

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Messages in this topic

KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 11:34 AM (EST)

1. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Good logic!
I like your thinking, in that Jon the Great (A$$) is a prime setup for the BT, ala the Mall Rats in S3.

A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
Mitch Ratcliffe, "Technology Review" (1992)

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-18-03, 11:34 AM (EST)

2. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Thanks for pulling all this together. My head was beginning to spin from all the different quotes on this topic. I want to add one more, probably untrustworthy quote from MB posted by VerucaSalt here: http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/cgi-bin/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3991&forum=DCForumID2&omm=16
"I can't give away all our secets, but I can tell you that two of the occurrences on this season will be two of biggest things that ever happend on the show," Burnett tells Star. "I mean, jaw-dropping! And then there's a mid-season twist that's totally unexpected and no one's ever seen before." Was there any truth, we asked Mark, to the rumor that a contestant would come back to the show after being voted off?"
"Um, no we don't bring a contestant back," he hinted."

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-18-03, 11:38 AM (EST)

3. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I hope this is the way it works out!!!

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 11:59 AM (EST)

5. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Okay from everything I am reading (and really great thought mist)
Right now I too get the feeling from the stuff posted that somehow, someway the lie, twist, regret are all interwined in some fashion as mentioned
THE LIE:
Jon is the liar and we also know Jeff can't stand him so needless to say, combining that with the information we have on Jon, this is probably a lie that pretty much envelops his character as it is. We also know that it is a flat out lie, not an embellishment but something he completely lied about, fine.

One question I have is according to Jeff, he did not know about this lie at first - so it must have been something that screening their background didn't show b/c Jeff states he didn't know it was lie and then when he found out he claimed his MF expletive. So it wasn't something that he could have easily seen was contradictory to Jon's screening or he would have known it was a lie at the moment Jon spoke it (this is obviously spec) Now the OTHERS according to Jeff don't know either or he doesn't believe they do, hence his comment about them finding out watching with us.
THE REGRET
How does one feel regret if no one knows about what the person is regretting? Does he feel regret solely because he ended up screwing himself out of the game? I can see that considering what "type" Jon appears to be OR he has regret which is shown in a confessional that the other contestants don't know about but by that time, Jeff does.
The bottom line for me is that while I do believe this may have been ballooned out by Jeff, etc. I do feel this lie had to be significant enough (and I think we can come up with little lies that don't deserve this embellishment) for this huge propaganda put forth.
THE TWIST
How this relates to the twist. Like misto said, could this lie have managed to get someone out of the game, i.e. Trish? The problem is Trish coming back and calling him out on it means then they learned the lie and according to Jeff, he doesn't think they know.
I even thought b/c of the lie, he ends up getting ejected from the game which is why they have the twist to replace him as a player but then wouldn't, again, the contestants know - unless they were not told WHY he was ejected?
My biggest issue is I can't see how they wouldn't know about the lie until viewing it on television

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 12:06 PM (EST)

7. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

My biggest issue is I can't see how they wouldn't know about the lie until viewing it on television
Yup, I hear you. This is the thing I'm trying to figure out too.
There's the possibility (like you said VS) that something that Jon lied about gets him ejected from the game and allows someone else to come back in. If this BT happens during the merger, the pre-jury people wouldn't know about it only the jury people.
Could those be the ones that don't know, that Jeff is talking about?

--wants a mojito

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princessoftides 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-18-03, 12:50 PM (EST)

11. "What about the confessionals?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 12:52 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 12:52 PM (EST)
>My biggest issue is I can't
>see how they wouldn't know
>about the lie until viewing
>it on television
>
Jeff hasn't told us *when* he realized a lie had been told, just that when it was *first* told he didn't realize it. So his realization could have been anytime from later that day to after the end of filming.
If Jeff was later present at, or watched a clip from, a confessional where the liar admits his/her lie, that would account for his MF reaction. And none of the other players would know what was in those confessionals until the episode actually aired....

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 01:24 PM (EST)

16. "RE: What about the confessionals?"

Agreed Princess which is why I stated that is a possible reason for Jeff to know and not the contestants (re: confessional)
As far as him not lying vs. being responsible for the greatest lie..... very true regarding that, in fact, he may not have been the one to actually tell the lie but rather be the catalyst of sorts for this lie to happen. Although I remember it said, someone told a flat out lie.
With that, he could then have lied about something Trish or whoever says, does, is, etc. which then makes him responsible for that person to leave the game as opposed to lying about himself. Certainly that should cause Jeff to react amazingly at what he himself found out to be a lie; like that MF'r told people that VICTIM OF LIE did this or something. That MF'r caused him/her to be booted out and it was a bold face lie.
Still working on this.

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princessoftides 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-18-03, 02:04 PM (EST)

20. "RE: What about the confessionals?"

Sorry, Veruca - I must have missed what you said before.
Your scenario makes a lot of sense - the thing I have trouble with, though, in all of this is trying to imagine what could be a lie of such whopping magnitude that it achieves "never before seen" status. And a bold-faced lie that gets someone kicked out of the game just doesn't seem that unheard-of (beef jerky/granola bar, for example). People have lied about alliances, promises, what they said to other people, what their strategy was, who they planned to take to the F2, etc., etc. - none of those things would be unprecedented.
That, together with Jeff's tendency to talk about it alongside the long-term expectation that someone would lie about their background, is making me lean towards the "something personal that escapes the initial screening" camp. It seems to be something with "sleaze" factor (based on Jeff's MF comment and his analogy to Ted/Ghandia), BUT something that no one would realize in the course of playing the game.
I am drawing a complete blank trying to come up with something that fits all three of those criteria, though.....

--who is really spending far too much time thinking about this today...

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-18-03, 03:43 PM (EST)

34. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Maybe the lie would have ruined the game. It would have to be kept secret so JP/MB came up with the twist to get Jon out and some one else (Trish?) back in.

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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Cathy the Canadian 599 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
09-18-03, 02:23 PM (EST)

23. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I'm also thinking that the BL and the Twist have nothing to do with each other.
This is a game where you are supposed to lie, bluff, whatever.
Rob told some BL's during his tenure. He felt no repercussions.

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rnabring 54 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-18-03, 11:56 AM (EST)

4. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

After reading all of the drowning information, lie information, and twist information, I still do not understand why people think that Jon tells the lie. It just seems to be too big of a leap in judgment.
I personally also think that making any argument about Jon vs. Trish isn't substantiated by anything.
I truly think that someone just lies about his or her occupation and comes off in a totally different way than they normally are. For instance, lie about your job being all about out-doors stuff, when you really have only worked at a mall. OR lie about sexual contact OR lie about someone's sexual orientation.
Truly, I'm surprised that sexual orientation hasn't been brought up whatsoever in any of these threads, cause frankly, some of the single people could be gay or lesbian or straight...and they could somehow lie to use this to their advantage.
I think that we can figure out the lie to some extent after watching the first episode (if they give any clues whatsoever), but making leaps in judgment at this time appear to be severely misguided.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 12:01 PM (EST)

6. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I still do not understand why people think that Jon tells the lie. It just seems to be too big of a leap in judgment.
Honey pie did you read my post? Here is the Probst quote that VerucaSalt found:
Probst says Dalton, an art consultant from Virginia, takes the prize for "squirreliest" contestant ever. He's responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor," says Probst, who's heard a few whoppers....
Dalton, Jon Dalton.
I don't think it's that much of a leap to take it to the next levels of thinking since Probst says Dalton is responsible for the lie.

--speculating, spoiling, spewing since 2001

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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-18-03, 12:40 PM (EST)

8. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 12:42 PM (EST)
What if the "BL" was something like Jon has some terminal illness (ie: cancer). Nothing contagious, just terminal. He tries to play the sympathy card so as not to have to work hard around camp, and elicit "sympathy" votes from future potential jurrors.
Perhaps he then starts to get sick on the show....which many people do because of the lack of food etc....but the survivors THINK it is due to this illness, therefore giving him the "Mercy" boot.....and he lives to regret it?

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Amily 88 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-18-03, 01:00 PM (EST)

13. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Classic!!! I love your theory - how funny would that be?

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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-18-03, 02:39 PM (EST)

24. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

It certainly seems to fit all the criteria, and would be easy to conceal from the other contestants because they have no way of telling what is true and untrue outside the game. Lying about yourself, job, health, etc.....unless you personally 'slip up' on your own lies, The lie itself would be virtually undetectable within the confines of the game. Thus the other survivors would have NO opportunity to find out until the game is over and it is disclosed on TV.....

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-18-03, 03:45 PM (EST)

35. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Excellent theory! Got my fingers crosse for this one, too.

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-18-03, 12:45 PM (EST)

9. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I posted similarly on one of the other threads, so please forgive duplication.
I'm not ready to buy that Jon is the liar.
Probst is usually really careful in his comments, and he hasn't mentioned who the liar is to any other journalists...
Plus, the journalist restated Jiffy's comments, putting quotes around a phrase here & there. The whole statement is not a quote.
This journalist sounds (at the top of the article) like they're not a reality fan, so may not be too worried about understanding and wording these phrases as precisely as possible.
It sounds to me like JP made a few of his stock S7 teaser comments, and the journalist compressed them into one interrelated event.
Is there anyone with press contacts that could talk to the reporter?

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-18-03, 12:48 PM (EST)

10. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

To get very nitpicky, the wording on the above quote struck me. It says that Jon is "responsible" for the lie not that he tells it. Granted that part may not be a direct quote from Jeff since it isn't in quotes but it opens up other possibilites. What if some action or attitude Jon takes causes another player to lie?

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 12:54 PM (EST)

12. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I can see what both Tamarama and AZ are saying.
That's why I started this new thread, so we can discuss ALL of the possibilities.
I'm certainly not reserving all my discussion for Jon being the liar only, I want us to (as I said it my opening post) keep an open mind about all the possibilities.
Going with the Jon as the liar from Probst quote was as good a start as any.
Do either of you have any examples or thoughts on what Jon might has said/done that would cause someone else to tell the BL?

--is getting ready for lunch

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-18-03, 01:03 PM (EST)

14. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

It sounds like Jon is arrogant and can't keep his mouth shut. It could be that he expresses some attitude or opinion such as "I will get rid of anyone who is or believes such and such and make their life miserable." Then the person says they are not whatever Jon is railing against. Could be sexual orientation, relationships religious beliefs, etc. Then the liar would regret having to deny something important to them just to stay in the game.

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Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 01:18 PM (EST)

15. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Here's my theory.
(I don't post pre-Survivor usually, but I'll post today, I guess)
Jon tells a lie about Trish. I don't know what this lie could be. It doesn't really matter right now in terms of spoiling.
Somehow, Trish comes back into the game. Jon is still in the game. Trish exposes Jon, and Jon is booted. Hence, the regret.
This would also explain Jiffy's M***** F***** comment. He figures Trish was booted for some reason, but a DAYS later, when Trish comes back, he finds out the truth.
Just throwing that out there.

Good thing I'm summarizing Ep7...

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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-18-03, 01:51 PM (EST)

17. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

There is one part of Jeff's quote that many are NOT taking into account, and that is that Jeff says "The SURVIVORS do NOT know about this lie, and will probably find out when WE do" Hence....I believe this has nothing to do with Trish, or anyone else. It probably has to do with Jon himself. I don't believe this "Big Lie" will Impact anyone's boot....unless it is the Liar himself (which of course is the "Big Regret" associated with the lie).

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Rothschild 496 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
09-18-03, 01:55 PM (EST)

18. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Just thoughts
Jon -- wants to be first to have sex on survivor. likes the
girls. ???? Red Flag -- a straight art dealer ???? See
Burton, Shawn, Osten, Rupert, Andrew naked or in underwear in
many postings -- not Jon ????? Shy ???? Anybody want to
connect the dots.....................

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-18-03, 03:48 PM (EST)

37. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Guess we better keep an eye on who's standing by whom without boxers.
(Have I got the grammer right?)

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 01:58 PM (EST)

19. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 02:03 PM (EST)
>Somehow, Trish comes back into the game. Jon is still in the>
>game. Trish exposes Jon, and Jon is booted. Hence, the regret.
The only problem I have with that scenario Jim is Jeff doesn't think the contestants found out about this lie and they will find out when they watch the show so if she exposes him, everyone will know about it.
Back to the responsible wording. Jeff says the greatest lie is ever TOLD. He then says Jon is responsible for this doozy as opposed to Jon is the one who lied. I really think Jeff is just saying Jon is the one responsible for it, period. We know a lie is told, he says so and now he is just letting us know Jon is the guilty party. If he said Michelle is responsible I may be able to tweak it where she was responsible for A lie to be told but considering this guy Jon is not exactly America's sweetheart, I have no problem believing that Jon is the liar therefore responsible for it.
So either the lie is something he says about someone else (causing them to get the boot) or a lie about himself enabling him to further himself in the game OR resulting in him leaving somehow?
It does sound an awful lot like the Beef Jerky as misto stated if he proclaims something about someone else although in this instance, if indeed the back from the dead player, it blew up in his face b/c they got to come back?
Wonder if the lie happens when the booted players are allowed a chance to get back in the game as opposed to lying the first time around, hmmmm

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
09-18-03, 02:09 PM (EST)

21. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

>
>>Somehow, Trish comes back into the game. Jon is still in the>
>>game. Trish exposes Jon, and Jon is booted. Hence, the regret.
>
The other problem is according to the current "tips" and spoilers, Jon doesn't last to the merge and the person who returns to the game returns at the time of the merge or shortly after.
So, it's unlikely that the a lie to the early boot who returns would come back to bite him when that "older woman" returns to the game...Jon will already be long gone.

Krautboy

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 02:20 PM (EST)

22. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

This quote I am trying to see if anything else can be cleared up due to the question as to the liar lying about themselves or someone else or whatever.
A "very, very regrettable event happens," Probst says. "And I think the person to whom it happens is going to regret it, and I think they're going to regret it more than they have any idea (they will) right now. I couldn't believe it when it happened, and I can't wait for it to play out."
This sounds a little different than other scenarios because I am getting from this:
LIAR tells a lie and due to this lie a regrettable event ends up happening to LIAR causing LIAR to really regret they lied because LIAR ends up getting screwed as opposed to screwing someone else.

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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-18-03, 02:46 PM (EST)

25. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

"LIAR tells a lie and due to this lie a regettable event ends up happening to LIAR causing LIAR to really regret they lied because LIAR ends up getting screwed as opposed to screwing someone else"
VS....Exactly! Could said LIAR tell a lie about another player and end up regretting it if other players NEVER find out about said lie until after the game? I think not. Said LIAR would have to be somehow lying about himself! Ulitmately, he thinks the lie will get him ahead in the game, but ends up screwing him.

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kykate 45 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-18-03, 02:46 PM (EST)

26. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

This quote may mean a different thing from the BL.
A "very, very regrettable event happens," Probst says. "And I think the person to whom it happens is going to regret it, and I think they're going to regret it more than they have any idea (they will) right now. I couldn't believe it when it happened, and I can't wait for it to play out."
Jeff seems to be talking about an ACTION here as opposed to the telling of the brutal and brilliant lie. I agree with someone (sorry - don't know who) that it is probably a sexual event. Since Jeff was asked about the Ghandia-Ted regret and stated that at least that could be passed off as sleeping, I really think this is some sexual event that can't be explained away. It makes sense - the person (married or engaged) regrets the action "right now", but he thinks "they're going to regret it more than they have any idea".
What do you think?

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-18-03, 03:01 PM (EST)

29. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

>>Jeff seems to be talking about an ACTION here as opposed to the telling of the brutal and brilliant lie.<<
That's my thinking too.
(For now) I'm still of the mind that we're talking about 3 separate things.
The Big Lie
The Regrettable Action
The Big Twist
If someone did something, and regrets it, but will regret it more as it's aired....this does sound like sex.
Or, how about the buzz about Christa's racism? If those rumors are true, maybe she burns her cross a little too brightly?

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princessoftides 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-18-03, 02:47 PM (EST)

27. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Veruca, you're right - this does sound different than the other scenarios. Where did this quote come from?
Here's what I'm getting so far. The lie:
* Is a big, whopping, unprecedented lie
* Has a certain "sleaze" factor
* Probably consists in someone misrepresenting him/herself personal background, profession, etc.)
* Was not obvious at the time it was told
* Was not discovered by the other players during the course of the game
* Is probably still unknown to the other players
* Set something in motion that royally screwed the liar, although he/she doesn't know it yet
Is that what everybody else sees, or am I off track? And does it get us anywhere new? I'm still drawing a blank, mainly because I'm having trouble imagining what would constitute a truly unprecedented lie, at least in the context of Survivor.

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
09-18-03, 02:49 PM (EST)

28. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

>
>A "very, very regrettable event happens,"
>Probst says. "And I think
>the person to whom it
>happens is going to regret
>it, and I think they're
>going to regret it more
>than they have any idea
>(they will) right now. I
>couldn't believe it when it
>happened, and I can't wait
>for it to play out."
>
>
Does this mean "it happened" during the game, but JP is still waiting for it to play out, as in at the post finale show? Or will "it play out" during the post boot interviews when the contestants can comment about what they find out watching the show?

Krautboy

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 03:09 PM (EST)

30. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I think he means the latter, KB. The wording here is very weird, and as everyone is noting, different from the other quotes.
First of all it's odd that JP says the regrettable event "happens" to someone, as if he/she were not responsible for it. Yet Jeff thinks he/she is going to regret it "more than they have any idea right now." I believe the person causes the event, and JP was trying to be murky about how he phrased it.
And the other difference is that it sounds like the person hasn't begun to regret it yet, but presumably will as he/she watches the game play out on TV.
I'm inclined to think this is all wrapped up with Jon's lie, or it IS the lie. I think Princess of Tides is probably right that Jon exposes the lie in his confessionals, ergo JP didn't know it was untrue at the time and neither do the contestants now.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 03:12 PM (EST)

31. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 03:17 PM (EST)
Sorry guys, I should have posted the link
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/09/18/Artsandentertainment/_Survivor__returns__a.shtml
You guys who posted after me just made me think of something. Didn't Jon say he wanted to have sex on this show?
How this may work, I can't think straight right now. But say somehow he did sleep with someone (the event) and either there is some huge lie about it or lies that he did when he didn't and somehow this ends up turning into a regrettable event for himself that, as KB notes, ends up playing out b/c it will be shown to the contestants as we watch it unfold and no one knew he lied about it until they see the show?
Tweak this with me people or point me in another direction. Cuz again, didn't JP refer to Ted/Ghandia in the context of all this talk stating in response to whether it was T/G, no not like that. But maybe it is ALONG those lines?
ETA: JP said the "greatest lie ever told" was on this season he also said there was "some regret." But emphasized regret. Elliot asked about the Ghandia-Ted incident and JP said this "regret" tops even that because with the Ghandia-Ted thing, you could at least play it off as happening in your sleep.

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Amily 88 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-18-03, 03:42 PM (EST)

33. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

When I heard about the big regret, coupled with the comparison to Ted and Ghandia, I immediately thought of Jon and his desire to have sex on TV. I don't think, if he gets his wish, that it would be Jon that regrets it - but the girl who he has sex with? Maybe the lie is linked because she denied it, but its caught on camera, hello, and now this girl will be forever known as the sleaze who had sex on Survivor (with America using the double standard and not necessarily caring that it takes two to tango). Just a thought - I was typing ideas as soon as they popped out, so therefore I know I must be completely off base.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 03:15 PM (EST)

32. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I couldn't believe it when it happened, and I can't wait for it to play out."
That's what I picked up on too Krautboy. I'd really like to know from where this quote came and in what context Probst is speaking. I think that will help us in determining if he's talking, about that he can't wait "for it to play out" in the show sense or for him to see the reactions of the players during the reunion.
Of course there's always the crazy wacky possibility that the voting on the final 2 doesn't actually take place until they're in NYC (or where ever the heck it's going to be) for the finale and boy howdy if someone had done something bad they sure as heck would regret it because it would effect how people vote.
And I think the person to whom it happens is going to regret it, and I think they're going to regret it more than they have any idea (they will) right now.
Why would they not know they're going to regret it unless the "regreter" doesn't realize that all will be brought to light during the playing of the show on TV?

--put those last comments in teeny tiny print because she's sure to get groans and also adds a disclaimer that she doesn't really believe the above scenario, is just putting it in to fuel more possible ideas

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-18-03, 03:54 PM (EST)

38. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I think this could happen because JP says "how it plays out.".

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-20-03, 11:43 PM (EST)

73. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

LAST EDITED ON 09-20-03 AT 11:44 PM (EST)
You didn't have to put that in small letters Misto- I think it is a real possibility. Just look at our last 2 winners:
Brian- Most would think that he wouldn't have won if everyone had seen his cocky, arrogant confessionals, and
Jenna- Many would have found out about her not being as bad off as people thought.
This would eliminate a lot of the "heat of the moment" votes.
The only negative I would see in it is the Jon angle. I can't see him in the final 2 (although who would have seen Clay or Matt there) and according to Probst he is wrapped up in it.

Edited to add: Hey I just turned 400!

A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in human history - with the possible exceptions of handguns and tequila.
Mitch Ratcliffe, "Technology Review" (1992)

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 03:47 PM (EST)

36. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I found this on Zap2it that adds a little more to the "m---er f---er" quote and thought I'd add it here to help flesh out our thoughts.
For a time, he says he fell for "the greatest lie ever told on 'Survivor.' "
"It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me," says Probst, who, naturally, won't divulge who told the lie or what its ramifications were. "My first reaction was 'Motherf----r,' and then my second reaction was 'Wow, that's amazing.' "

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-18-03, 04:09 PM (EST)

39. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

>>For a time, he says he fell for "the greatest lie ever told on 'Survivor<<
This sounds like it's more along the lines of who a contestant is (name, occupation, age, education, hometown, sexual orientation) rather than regarding a specific event (we didn't have sex). More ongoing, not one isolated instance.
Even taking into account the typical hype, "we didn't have sex" just doesn't sound big enough to be the Big Lie. (people still don't believe Colleen & what's his face about them not having sex -- and ultimately, who cares?)
>>It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me," says Probst, who, naturally, won't divulge who told the lie or what its ramifications were.<<
Just 'cause it's my day to be a stinker -- why would he tell ONLY the Toronto Sun? I think the Toronto guy screwed up. I don't think Probst said it was Jon.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-18-03, 04:19 PM (EST)

40. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Okay so maybe then it is the sexual orientation as mentioned (couple of you mentioned it and my darn connection keeps going out to name you guys specifically sorry)
If Jon told a big lie that he was gay, a regrettable event came out of it which ends up at some point biting himself in the ass which Jeff can't wait to see how it will end up playing out because the other contestants don't know yet that he lied to them about this.
Could that be plausible? Could this lie turn into a regrettable event for himself. Certainly this is something that could be lied about and Jon used it somehow to get himself further into the game (perhaps using some sort of I'm an ostracized person where I live scenario)
My only problem with this is that he "strikes" me as a real ego fed guy; would he lie about being gay if he thinks he is such a stud?
Just not sure, kinda thinking while I am typing (sigh)

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 04:29 PM (EST)

41. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Just from the things that we know about Jon so far, I cannot imagine him saying he was gay even if he thought if might get him farther in the game.
He lists Hugh Hefner as his hero and one of his hobbies as girls.
I just can't see someone like this going the "I'm gay" angle.
I can see him saying or doing things overtly sexual to the woman that might bite him in the ass though.

--has 3 1/2 hour to wait

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TeamJoisey 3558 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-20-03, 10:16 PM (EST)

71. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

>I can see him saying or
>doing things overtly sexual to
>the woman that might bite
>him in the ass though.
>
>
Misto, which was the woman that might bite him in the ass?
I want to send her antibiotics.

These reality show contestants need a reality check!

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 03:28 PM (EST)

88. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Misto, which was the woman that might bite him in the ass?
I want to send her antibiotics
Dammit Joisey! You know how easy it is for me to go all OT!!
You're enabling me!

--hopes that their island has willow trees so that can use the bark to make asprin

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-18-03, 04:36 PM (EST)

42. "How about the other way around?"

Or, as someone else hinted, maybe he's gay & lies about being straight?
(if Jon's the liar, that is)
(I'll try to get more sleep tonight so that I'm less argumentative tomorrow!!)

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 04:42 PM (EST)

43. "RE: How about the other way around?"

You're not being argumentative tamarama! You're being devils advocate girl and I for one like to have more ideas thrown out there!
If this is you with sleep deprevation...drink some more coffee!

--is having a blast

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-18-03, 04:48 PM (EST)

44. "(off topic)"

(I stayed up too late last night watching that Reality TV doc from Bravo)(wanted to see it before tonight)
(I'm way too old to stay up late)

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 04:54 PM (EST)

45. "RE: How about the other way around?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-18-03 AT 04:58 PM (EST)
The "brilliant" lie would theoretically be something designed to win people over, by making them --
a) have profound respect and admiration for Jon, or
b) feel sorry for him, or ideally
c) a combination of both
-- with the notion that it will help get him further in the game. I can't see someone thinking that simply lying about sexual orientation would accomplish this.
Curiouser and curiouser...

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ParkGirl 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-18-03, 04:56 PM (EST)

46. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

With so much talk of "having sex on TV", the "Ted & Ghandia Incident" what if the BL is that a contestant who is now a male was once a female or visa versa? You would have to admit that would be one whopper of a lie and if I found that out I might just say M----- F----- too!
A regret may be that another contest got a little close to our she/he male (who lead them on) and now regrets doing so. Many regrets & consequences could come from this senario.
Bash me if you want, just my two cents. But it would make for good TV and thats really what important.

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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 05:22 PM (EST)

47. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

"It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me," says Probst, who, naturally, won't divulge who told the lie or what its ramifications were. "My first reaction was 'Motherf----r,' and then my second reaction was 'Wow, that's amazing.' "
Just wanted to repost the quote for study purposes. While the gay v. straight (and, I suppose, the he/she) theorems are intriguing, they don't seem to fit the "brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me" part of Jeff's statement. (Jeff, by the way, should be pretty hard to sucker by this time).
I think I'm leaning toward the faux terminal illness strategy.
Or, thinking about BB Robert, maybe he poses as a single, poor father?
>

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ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 05:23 PM (EST)

48. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Perhaps he feigns deafness?
Again, we are all assuming it's Jon we're talking about.
>

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silentJ 336 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-18-03, 06:46 PM (EST)

49. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Personally, I was leaning towards a "I need the money to help my dying parent," scheme that worked so well for Jenna last season. Then, that parent shows up for the loved one challenge, healthy as can be. The other players boot him at the next tribal council. The others that were voted of ahead of him might not yet know.
But after reading this thread, I'm thinking that the lie might actaully get someone else booted and that person won't know the real reason they lost until after the show airs.
Suppose Jon and Christa start hanging around together. Jon brags to Andrew and Burton that he had sex with Christa, even though he didn't. Andrew and Burton arange for Christa to be booted to break up her "allience" with Jon (as Jon would be more of an asset to the premerge tribe). Jon feels horrible that his lie led to his friend Christa's ouster. Christa, however is never told any of this, so her reaction has yet to play out

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-18-03, 07:02 PM (EST)

50. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Suppose Jon and Christa start hanging around together. Jon brags to Andrew and Burton that he had sex with Christa, even though he didn't. Andrew and Burton arange for Christa to be booted to break up her "allience" with Jon (as Jon would be more of an asset to the premerge tribe). Jon feels horrible that his lie led to his friend Christa's ouster. Christa, however is never told any of this, so her reaction has yet to play out
Hi silentJ, nice to meet you.
The scenario you outlined above isn't bad. Not bad at all. If in fact it's Jon who tells the BL, I could see him saying something like this. He's said that he wants to have the first Survivor orgy, he lists Hugh Hefner as a hero, his hobby is girls...he's just arrogant and cocky enough to think something like this would work for him and not think of the consequences for the woman he is lying about.
Taking this scenario, it doesn't even have to be Jon that is the liar. It could be that since Probst says Jon is "responsible" for one of the biggest lies, Jon might tell one of his tribemates that he "heard" two people having sex and THAT could lead to say Shawn (or whoever) saying "Yeah, I had sex with her, but don't tell anyone okay? She's got a boyfriend." or something of that ilk.

--is throwing more wood out there to see if anyone needs a fire

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colleenwannabe 455 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
09-19-03, 00:26 AM (EST)

51. "Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 00:52 AM (EST)
What if Lillian isn't really a 11 year veteran with the Boy Scouts? It seemed like she had to think hard to remember the troop name. It isn't hard to make your own uniform. There is a scout store here in Austin where you can totally outfit yourself with shirt, shorts, patches, and other types of gear.
Just a thought.
Edited to say:
I've had a look on the net, and I can't find a single official Boy Scout site that lists a Troop 617 in Cincinnati. Hmmmm....

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anninvt2002 86 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-19-03, 09:12 AM (EST)

52. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

I had the same thought...Here is the ohio list of troops from the web....THERE IS NO TROOP 617 in Ohio
Ohio
Boy Scout Troops
on the
World Wide Web
TROOPS 400 to 9999

All of the links on this page were last tested and found to be active on 07/10/2003, or marked otherwise.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ohio Troops 1 to 99 - 100 to 199 - 200 to 399
Troop 400, Wadsworth (inactive link)
Troop 401, Steubenville
Troop 402, Coshocton
Troop 405, Coshocton (inactive link)
Troop 405, Rittman (inactive link)
Troop 406, Mt. Carmel
Troop 414, Wellington
Troop 415, Milford (inactive link)
Troop 424, South Euclid/Lyndhurst
Troop 428, Powell
Troop 445, Cincinnati
Troop 452, Cincinnati
Troop 456, Seville
Troop 461, Highland Heights
Troop 466, Vandalia
Troop 476, Cincinnati
Troop 483, Cincinnati
Troop 484, Tarlton
Troop 501, Ashland
Troop 502, Westerville
Troop 511, Cincinnati
Troop 513, Brunswick
Troop 516, Centerville
Troop 519, Brunswick
Troop 520, Cambridge (inactive link)
Troop 526, North Royalton
Troop 530, Centerville
Troop 536, Senecaville (inactive link)
Troop 542, Byesville
Troop 548, Cambridge
Troop 551, Perrysville (inactive link)
Troop 553, Hilliard
Troop 555, Columbus
Troop 555, Madeira
Troop 559, Atwater/Randolph
Troop 560, Westerville
Troop 561, Pleasantville (inactive link)
Troop 562, Willoughby Hills
Troop 575, Lancaster
Troop 586, Ashland
Troop 586, Tipp City
Troop 588, Columbus
Troop 591, Cincinnati Troop 613, Columbus
Troop 621, Loveland
Troop 622, Columbus
Troop 633, Reading
Troop 641, Cincinnati
Troop 662, Shaker Heights
Troop 664, North Olmsted
Troop 674, Montgomery (inactive link)
Troop 700, Westerville
Troop 701, Strongsville
Troop 734, Columbus (inactive link)
Troop 741, Owensville
Troop 759, Barberton (inactive link)
Troop 763, Sabina

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anninvt2002 86 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-19-03, 09:28 AM (EST)

53. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

bump

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Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-19-03, 09:29 AM (EST)

54. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 09:51 AM (EST)
Wow, interesting... are we sure this is EVERY troop in Ohio?
This could fit in great with Jiffy's quote about someone who's (paraphrasing) a frickin' genius coming in and playing the game as a milkman from Montana. What if Lil is really a very smart cookie, playing the local yokel, complete with goofy uniform?
Edited to add: Ok, after actually seeing the link, I think that all it is is a listing of Troops' Web Sites. It's possible that Troop 617 just doesn't have a site, and hence wouldn't be on this list.
Start Weight:339 Last Weigh-in:321 Loss To Date:-18
I guess one person can make a difference, but most of the time, they probably shouldn't. - Marge Simpson

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Booted 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
09-19-03, 09:40 AM (EST)

55. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

From the Cincinnati Post
"The Dan Beard Boy Scout Council is proudly aware of Morris, who is the leader of a long-time troop of some 80 boys that covers the Kings Mill, Landen and Deerfield Township areas. "
Boot Ed

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jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
09-19-03, 10:03 AM (EST)

56. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

Troop 621, Loveland
I believe this may be one of her troops. I will try to find out more. I just don't see this being the big lie.

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rnabring 54 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-19-03, 10:20 AM (EST)

58. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 10:23 AM (EST)
Originally from Ohio, I can attest to the notion that the following link IS incomplete.
http://www.boyscouts.com/troopstates/oh.html
My hometown is not listed as having a troop, and I know that we have one.
However, anninvt2002's post above is interesting.
In addition, 621 is a different troop for a neighboring area. I read that her troop has 3 different townships (including Kings Mill...that's what I remember right now), and Loveland (a town of a little over 10,000), which is troop 621, should have its own troop.
Also, her council exists and numerous news sites in Cincinnati have quotes from people in the council who like her. So, this is probably not the lie, despite the fact that it would be genius. Unless, of course, Cincinnati newspapers have butchered this thing so bad (they're not exactly known for their wonderful newspapers)...but that's seriously doubtful.
(Editted to 621 info)

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FarmBoy 2618 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
09-19-03, 10:16 AM (EST)

57. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

I wondered the same thing after her evasive response to Jeff at TC.
What would the BS of America do about this "lie"?

Bovinated- An Original Draco Masterpiece

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Quali 9 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
09-19-03, 10:23 AM (EST)

59. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 10:25 AM (EST)
She's listed here, but that doesn't mean much - it's copyrighted 2003 and is very basic.
http://www.troop617.org
I don't think this could be the BL about which JP says "Mother F*****" though...

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ImNext 99 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-21-03, 12:47 PM (EST)

76. "RE: Is Lil really a Troop Leader?"

Speaking from knowledge of Girl Scouts, I can tell you that more than likely, they won't just let any adult off the street come in and purchase pieces of an adult Scout uniform. Before the people in our Scout store really got to know me, I was required to show my training card so they could verify I was actually a Girl Scout leader. I don't know anything about Boy Scouts, and many of their procedures are already vastly different from Girl Scouts, so who knows...

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-19-03, 10:40 AM (EST)

60. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 10:47 AM (EST)
Thinking about this some more...
It sounds like JP first hears the details that constitute the lie when the person tells it to his tribe, not before then. And we've heard him describe the lie as "brutal", "brilliant", and "amazing."
This suggests the liar concocts a fairly detailed and imaginative, yet plausible, story. It's not just general misinformation about occupation, where he's from, sexual preference, etc., some of which details JP would know before the game starts.
I think it may play out like Sook Jai's heart-to-heart campfire chat, where Robb Z., sensing he was on the outs, tried to make amends and talked about being alienated from his father, and how he'd grown while in the game. He reduced the others to tears, and they came to like and respect him more (even though they did vote him out).
But Robb Z. was sincere. The liar could tell a similar story about something in his past or in his life, gaining the sympathy and respect of his tribemates. Except in this case it's all total BS.
It may not even directly affect the game, ultimately. JP may just be impressed that the liar was able to concoct this amazing story and convince everyone, including himself, to fall for it.

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princessoftides 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-19-03, 11:27 AM (EST)

61. "HEY!"

BR, I'm thinking along the same lines, although I was imagining a story told to another individual or maybe a couple of people to create a bond/alliance - a la "oh, your mother died when you were young, mine did too"...
(few minutes later) HEY!!!!! I just went to CBS's site to find out which player's mother DID die - I remember reading that in the profiles and wanted to see if that person was on Jon's team... and I CAN'T FIND IT! Unless I am hallucinating (which I suppose is possible), there WAS a profile of one of the women that said her mother died of cancer when she was in high school or college. I was thinking it was Tijuana or Sandra. But now NONE of the women's profiles mention a mother that has passed away. Is it there and I'm just not seeing it? Or did I dream reading it in the first place? Or could THIS be the big lie?
It would fit - it would be brutal, brilliant and amazing!

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princessoftides 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-19-03, 11:39 AM (EST)

62. "It IS Tijuana, but something smells fishy!"

OK, I've been combing through the bios trying to figure out if I'm going nuts, and I finally found this in Tijuana's:
"She is most proud of her mother's ability as a single parent to raise her and her brother, as well as the love and lessons her late mother taught her."
But Guys, I SWEAR I distinctly remember words to the effect of "she is no stranger to tragedy", and talking about the strength it gave her to nurse her dying mother - I think it said she dropped out of college, or delayed college to do it.
Am I nuts? Does anybody else remember this? And WHY would they put one profile up, then change it?

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-19-03, 12:15 PM (EST)

64. "RE: It IS Tijuana, but something smells fishy!"

LAST EDITED ON 09-19-03 AT 12:19 PM (EST)
Wow, aren't we busy trying to figure out this mystery. I was glad to see this right back up near the top cuz I'm still intrigued by this
As soon as Jon did his dish on getting action, it confirmed my thoughts he is too ego fed to pretend he was gay.
The bottom line to me is that this LIE is gonna be big enough that they are selling it but not enough (obviously) that it cost him from getting to Survivor.
The consensus seems that he lied and we know about it and Jeff finds out b/c of a confessional. We already know he is NOT going to play fair; that comment about Johnny Fairplay was put in for a reason and we know why.
The lie instilled comments of an almost like "awe" of Jeff so I'm thinking it can't be so despicable that Jeff would comment almost like he was impressed in a way (but that is just the "feeling" I get from what Jeff is saying)
new thing to add to the puzzle:
www.survivornews.net/news.php?id=127
Quote:
As for his dislike of Dalton, Probst says he eventually developed a grudging respect for the 29-year-old contestant. "Here's where it gets twisted: That same guy you're hoping falls on his face, the moment he does fall on his face, you instantly want him to get up. And then you're pulling for him."
Okay, first off, he tells a whopper of a lie and Jeff develops a grudging respect for him, Jon falls on his face somehow and Jeff feels empathy. If this has to do with the LIE, I can't conceive that it would so horrific for another contestant if Jeff ends up feeling some compassion SO I am speculating on my earlier post that the LIAR LIES and which ends up in a REGRETTABLE EVENT for LIAR b/c the way Jeff speaks; the only person this LIE ends up screwing is the LIAR.
Edited to fix a goofy thing on my part

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-19-03, 01:49 PM (EST)

66. "RE: It IS Tijuana, but something smells fishy!"

>>As soon as Jon did his dish on getting action, it confirmed my thoughts he is too ego fed to pretend he was gay.<<
Agreed --
Plus, yesterday I didn't want to jump on the "Jon's the liar" bandwagon, and after seeing him in action, I REALLY don't think he's the liar.
He's a very juvenile, 'class clown' guy -- his pre-show bio & comments, the "art gallery" he works for, being a drunken motormouth...
I think he's trying to do a Rob C -- not strong, etc, so I'm gonna be the funny guy. I don't think he's subtle enough to be the liar.
I can see where JP's other comments might come from though -- Jon's obnoxious as a get out, but doesn't seem actually evil. So I can see how he'd maybe grow on you like a fungus.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-19-03, 11:51 AM (EST)

63. "RE: HEY!"

I don't recall seeing that at all, princess -- not to say it didn't exist. Maybe if someone else remembers it they'll find and post it.

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ShowMeTheWinner 962 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
09-20-03, 12:47 PM (EST)

67. "RE: HEY!"

princess is right.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/Entertainment/Columnists.nsf/Gail+Pennington/451B8302598FD8D586256DA400613DB8?OpenDocument&Headline=Pirates+had+better+not+mess+with+Tijuana+Bradley
"Bradley also has the strength that comes from tragedy; at age 21 she lost her mother, then just 44, to a brain tumor, nursing her through her final days. She returned to college with new determination, those who know her say, and, after graduating from St. Louis University, quickly landed a job selling pharmaceuticals."

Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor! (I'd rather be delusional)
Hail the purple rock! Hallelujah..... Oh glory!

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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
09-19-03, 01:23 PM (EST)

65. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Here's my 2 cents of why it CAN'T be some of the above theories:
-- the sex/sexual orientation thing: This would have created a regrettable action, but how could this be BRUTAL and brilliant? Brutal indicates that somebody lied to harm somebody else in the game.
-- the non-scout troop leader theory: Again, this would be brilliant, but it sure wouldn't be brutal.
-- Tijuana's mother DIDN'T die of cancer, but she tells everybody that she did: brutal and brilliant, and could cause a regrettable reaction, but how is this info used in such a huge and shocking way to make it suck a big deal?
So here's what REALLY happens;
Personally, I like the terminal illness theory... Maybe Tijuana mentions the dying mother, Jon is in danger of being voted off, so claims he has cancer or lupus or something to gain sympathy.
Then he uses the sympathy to sleep with Lillian, who is so devastated by the event that she realizes that she's a lesbian, which causes her to lose her scout troop, and she leaves Ohio to become a pro wrestler with Jon.

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SnowBunny 79 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-20-03, 01:36 PM (EST)

68. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

This discussion thread has been intriguing indeed. I have been puzzling over the possibilities for a couple of days, and here are a few thoughts I have:
- Originally, I thought the dying family member suggestion was a good one because we have seen empathy/sympathy from others on the show when something like this is revealed. But, I wonder how this could get twisted around to work against the liar without the rest of the tribe knowing he had lied. It's not like the tribe would say, "Oh, he/she doesn't need a letter from home or a visit from a loved one because ..." Or, "We need to vote him/her out because of ..."
- Then, I wondered if this liar portrayed himself/herself as a 9-11 victim of some sort (lost family member, lost job, etc). That seems brutal (although I would argue it's not brilliant), but again I can't see how he would live to regret it without the tribe knowing he lied. Unless, of course, his conscience gets him.
- The same scenario would apply to a number of similar possibilities: war veteran with post traumatic stress, cancer victim, etc etc.
I think the key lies in the regret. How does the person live to regret it if the tribe does not know they had lied?
I love the Lillian is not a Scout Leader idea, but sadly that seems to have been debunked. Imagine showing up to a game like this looking the part of one to be trusted (a la Andrew's reaction when it was her word against Nicole's) only to turn out to be someone entirely different.
The sexual intercourse idea might be a good one. Man claims to have had sex with woman, who is then alienated by the tribe or voted off because they worry about her alliance with him ... He might regret the lie, again because of conscience. Or, perhaps he is voted off for fear of an alliance with her. He'd certainly regret it then.

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Debster 9 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
09-20-03, 05:48 PM (EST)

69. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

YAY, I finally got my account going!!!
Anyway, first, a question....How in depth are their medical exams?? Are we talking completely naked? OK, I'm grasping now, but could someone have lied about their sex?? Or somebody in the process of a sex change, and Jon saw something he wasn't supposed to and spilled the beans and then he got voted off for being a big mouth. I know.....WAAAAY to much of an imagination

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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
09-20-03, 06:15 PM (EST)

70. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

If I understand all of the above, then JP & The Survivors didn't realize the BL was a lie at the time it was told, and that the Players STILL DON'T KNOW IT WAS A LIE.
Knowing how JP likes to put folks on the spot at TC, the only way the other players wouldn't become aware of the BL is that JP didn't find out it was a lie until the game was already over. IE. when JP/MB started to edit the show, going thru hours of tape, JP/MB see somthing that Proves player X told the BL. Thus JP's exclamation.
JP/MB then have how they edit player X at their mercy. Player X can be edited to brilliant or a idiot, a puppet master or a heartless. Possibly giving us the regret.

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SnowBunny 79 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
09-21-03, 10:57 AM (EST)

74. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Wouldn't it be great if the person who tells the Big Lie reveals they lied in their confessional at TC after they are booted?

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aardvark_3 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
09-22-03, 02:47 AM (EST)

79. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Hey everyone - virgin poster, everyone's gotta try it sooner or later!
Anyway, I like this comment by mavsfan as an explanation re BL. I have only watched last season and the begining of this one, so I'm still learning some of the quirks of JP and MB. However, JP's MF comment seems pretty strong for him so it seems to me the MF was not only the whopper, but the fact is was missed until the editing room. By then, its WAY too good to pass up! Talk about regret...
just some thoughts.

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Joyful 232 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
09-20-03, 11:36 PM (EST)

72. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I'm getting the feeling that the lie and the regret are not related. I can't even speculate on the BL there are just too many plausible possibilities. I do think the regret will come from someone having sex with someone else and one or both parties have significant others back home. (that's why they will regret it more when the show airs, and why Jeff is anxious to see "it play out" as if he's saying "let's see if that person gets dumped") Just the way the quote reads makes me think that the regret is separate from the BL. But I have been known to be very wrong when it comes to predicting reality TV

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Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-21-03, 12:00 PM (EST)

75. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

Mavsfan reminded me about this angle, in another thread.
There was a little discussion about the missing speargun piece. Some have thought maybe Shawn had something to do with it.
Somehow, though, Jon is "responsible" for the lie.
We have 2 parts, regarding supplies.
1. One team pillages another team
2. Part of the spear turns up missing/broken.
If Morgan won the RC, why wouldn't they take the fishing spear? Three reasons:
A. They didn't win the RC in the first place.
B. Someone hid it (or at least the spear part) beforehand, in an effort to stop Rupert from catching fish.
C. The spear was already broken.
This equipment situation is getting weird.

A 2003 IceCat original

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PhoenixMons 4696 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Stuff Magazine Centerfold"
09-21-03, 02:46 PM (EST)

77. "Random thoughts..."

Oh boy...I've always been a what if-er, so I've been pondering the various possibilities of the BL, BT, and BR (I am quite confident that they are three totally separate issues based upon the quotes I've seen).
Here are my initial thoughts:
BL
1. while I agree that the wording is iffy, I do think the lie is told by Jon. I definitely believe it's something about him and not someone else. My first thoughts were that it was a lie from his application, a lie that could have gone unnoticed (not sure how much "checking" they do at CBS since beforehand to verify info) which would result in no one knowing that it was a lie until sometime during the show (a confessional, maybe even some "oops" on his part in not keeping up with the lie. It would seem that this lie would have to be something that could be deemed as beneficial in the game (otherwise, what's the point). I am thinking maybe this lie is a totally concocted "Jon Dalton" character...maybe he's not even Jon Dalton (well, the Jon Dalton he says he is anyway) - Survivor's first stolen identity? bwaaaaahaaaaa.
2. supposing the lie could belong to anyone, my first thoughts were a lie about some need for the money (pulling on the heartstrings of the teammates) or a lie about some accomplishment (something big) that would have your tribe in awe of you.
BT
1. I think the twist relates to voting in some way...I don't think they would really "resurrect" a player, but something might happen (a tie vote) in which the player who loses the tiebreak comes back if the other person involved in the tie break is injured shortly after TC...I don't see any way that someone would be resurrected beyond one TC...that would just be a whole different game and totally unsurvivor-like...once your torch is snuffed, you are history. I'm thinking maybe some new twist to voting post-merge. Maybe there is "team" immunity and you must chose another player to give immunity to in addition to yourself? It has to be something big in order for people to be talking about it a year from now (read that in some quote, somewhere...) - I suppose there are a million possible twists, but I'm still trying to figure out something that would both maintain the history of survivor (no resurrected players) AND tie in a pirate theme. Haven't figured that out yet...
Crap! I just saw an article that leads me to believe the twist may in fact be a resurrection. UGH! Here is the link and quote:
The Survivor host told fans to expect even more twists and turns for the contestants on the road to the grand prize, and even a few strategic mistakes.
"I think somebody did something they're going to regret for a long time," he said. "And expect a twist midway through that's either going to have the audience excited or really angry."

http://www.wltx.com/fyi/fyi.asp?storyid=13456
I suppose depending upon how the resurrection is done, it might not be THAT big of a disappointment. I still think it's totally NOT survivor-like to have any possibility of returning to the game, but I guess maybe in this special "pirate" season an exception could be made since the players wouldn't know it was coming...and then they wouldn't be able to do it again (just like no more girl vs. guy tribes) for a while to maintain freshness...
BR
1. I'm pretty convinced that the regret is something different from the lie (and it's NOT related to Jon, at least not directly). I don't have that much speculation about the regret other than that it might be sexual (Ted-Ghandia comment...there have been plenty of regrets throughout Survivor...why bring up THAT one if not somehow correlated/related?)...it could be possible for the regret to be impactful because it directly caused the departure of the person (or someone else) and not some sort of moral regret or what-have-you. But would it be a "huge regret" that would impact them after the game? I guess it might if it was, say, someone who takes up the opportunity to switch tribes and then is voted out the next TC? I think that might be stretching it though...it's likely some sort of moral regret.

I *heart* my ©2003 GeorgiaBelle Creation
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it" - Mohandas K. Gandhi

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
09-21-03, 11:50 PM (EST)

78. "Big Lie about Occupation?"

From a radio interview posted at SS:
http://pub207.ezboard.com/fsurvivorsucksfrm2.showMessage?topicID=16341.topic
Probst on The Big Lie: "Well, I'm in danger of becoming Mark in over-hyping the lie, but I'm out there actually believing this thing, and when I find out that its really a lie, it surprises me! Is it like Ted and Ghandia? Not really . . . its a flat-out absolute lie that one person tells everybody else, and they believe it. In fact, I'm sure that they still don't know its a lie and won't find out until they watch the show along with the audience."
"We've been waiting for something like this to come along since we started this thing. We don't tell the Survivors anything about having to tell the truth about their occupations or anything else for that matter. (Pauses) You know, I've always said that if I did one of these things, I would come up with some off-the wall profession and tell everybody that my mother is deathly ill and my father is about to die."

Krautboy

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-22-03, 07:59 AM (EST)

80. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

Yeah KB, that stuff is already floating around here somewhere (sigh) and all this is doing is making me more confused lol. Glad you put it in here if it isn't cuz there were about four threads until misto consolidated it.
That quote had me wondering about the occupation etc. but somehow the lie about what they do or something has to be so wacked that it affects the person, the game, Jeff and ultimately the contestants once they find out. What on earth could something like that be? I think that is why people questioned Lil's occupation as well.

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 12:54 PM (EST)

82. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

But what occupation would you think helps you in this game. If everyone thinks you are too successful that hurts you. So does someone lie and say they have a lowly job when they are really rich and successful? Is someone hiding what they really do, or trying to sound like they have a job that is helpful to a team when they don't have that job. Hmmm?
Should we be keeping track of who mentions their job on the show? It would not be interesting to the TV viewers when it is revealed if they didn't even realize what the person did. The average audience doesn't pay attention to job titles.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-22-03, 01:07 PM (EST)

83. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

That's the problem Loree, I have no idea. And I certainly can't imagine what it could be that would garner such hype. Even if this was inflated in the classic MB/Jeff way, there is still enough that it has to be somewhat a big deal. Personally I'm gearing towards a pity me story that makes everyone look at Jon differently and feel for him which may save him a boot or two and he confesses he lied about it (maybe when someone else gets booted before him) when he votes for that person. No one will know about it until they see it on television and see his confessional and Jeff didn't know either until he saw it.
From all indications, this Jon sounds like a real jerk from the things I am reading; would not surprise me if he was slimey enough to play on sympathy. I tend not to think it is a lie about someone else b/c from the short time we have seen the Drake tribe I would suspect people like Rupert, Sandra etc. would be more DOUBTFUL about a lie Jon says or at least check it before blindly believing him (and we know they don't know it is a lie per Jeff) I know I'd be more inclined to check Jon's statement about someone rather than just blindly believing him.
That is why I'm more inclined to think the lie is about him by him and whatever it is are probably going to make people feel like idiots for believing him.

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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 01:57 PM (EST)

86. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

Jeff seems to really dislike Jon to the extreme. So I wonder if the lie added to his disgust with him. If Jeff already didn't like the loudmouth and then later found out he had been fooled by him then I could see him wanting to expose the lie to make Jon regret it later.

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reckhard 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
09-22-03, 04:20 PM (EST)

89. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

My gut feel about the Big Lie is that it has to be something that ellicits sympathy and the timing would be such that it is a 'last straw' move. If we assume it's Jon and his entire psyche is centered on sex (and by the time he pulls out this lie he's probably figured out he isn't getting any from the ladies on this show) - I think his big lie is to claim he has AIDS. He would state that he needs the money for treatments etc. This is pure speculation but would fit in with what we've seen so far...
I've been a long time lurker - this big lie thread looked like too much fun to pass up.

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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 05:13 PM (EST)

92. "RE: Big Lie about Occupation?"

Welcome to the boards!

A Kyngsladye Original

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Chez 777 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
09-22-03, 12:54 PM (EST)

81. "Big Twist Possibility"

This is regarding the 'big twist'. There's speculation, fueled by some spoiling, that one or more players are resurrected after being voted off. There's also a fair amount of sentiment that this is totally against the basic premise of Survivor, namely that when you "voted off the island" you are finished for good. Therefore many feel this would ruin the theme of the show.
But let's look at this in the Pirate theme context. Maybe JP will at some point refer to the people voted off as having "walked the plank" or "tossed into the clink". In such instances, the person would not really be "dead", and resurrection (or escape) is still a possibility.
They would have to rationalize the resurrection in some way, and maybe this is how they do it.
Just a thought. We should listen carefully to see if JPs words at TC allow this ambiguity.

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smrtNsassybnkr 332 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host"
09-22-03, 01:30 PM (EST)

84. "JP's words...."

I watched the 1st episode again Sunday night, and specificially listened to what JP said at TC when Nicole was voted out. He said you can always save yourself...remember that over the next 36 days
This may be his "Out" as far as rationalizing the return of the booted player.

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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 01:46 PM (EST)

85. "RE: JP's words...."

I also thought those "you can always save yourself" words were out of place and not par for the course. I would bet money that those words will come back to haunt them.

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Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-22-03, 02:05 PM (EST)

87. "Tiebreaker"

Maybe Mark Burnett is going to send 5 of their exes, in what would be a shocking twist, called The X Factor!!!
Seriously though, I'm betting that it has something to do with a tiebreaker. A lot of people didn't like the drawing rocks idea, and it lead to less stressful TCs. Remember how Helen sided with the boys in S5, so she wouldn't force a tie?
I'm wondering if perhaps BOTH the people who tied are gone, and then a booted person comes back. A penalty to the tribe that they can't make up their minds. It would certainly keep the timeline straight. And it would also give a plural meaning to "whoever has the most votes will leave."
The only problem is some of the logistics of bringing a person back. Would they come back the next episode, or do they have challenges waiting, just in case?
If this did happen, I'd guess it would be during Ep7, like in Survivor: Outback.

A 2003 IceCat original

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Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-22-03, 04:45 PM (EST)

90. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I think we could have possibly seen it already; when Andrew called out Ryan S at the council it appeared to be a lie if you watch the challenge. Ryan S quits which is a decision he comes to regret
And the winner of survivo 7 is Andrew Savage

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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
09-22-03, 04:56 PM (EST)

91. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

I've been thinking about the resurrection of a player thing -- the tribes are on separate islands. The pirate theme plays into a pillaging motif -- so maybe when somebody gets voted off one island, they actually go to the OTHER tribe somehow -- like they have to vote to bring one back.
And maybe the big lie is that Rupert is actually JPs long-lost half brother. His regret is that he wins, but finds out after they announce he just won, and they tell him he's ineligible --- that would be pretty regrettable!!!

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-25-03, 07:34 AM (EST)

93. "RE: Big Lie, Big Twist Discussion"

VG from Sucks:
Just as a follow-up, the reporter confirms that he misquoted Jeff as saying that Jon was the liar. Jeff did not say that.
Jon could be the liar. Someone else could be the liar. Jeff did not say that Jon was the liar.
That is all.
And so the liar is NOT necessarily Jon

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 08:39 AM (EST)

94. "Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

Veruca, do you think it's possible with all the discussion and theorizing about that particular JP quote that the reporter is being pressured to say he/she "misquoted" Probst?
I'm just wondering because it seems a little fishy to me that after writing an article with a "quote" like that and then he/she, 2 weeks later is recanting what he/she wrote.
From this:
Probst says Dalton, an art consultant from Virginia, takes the prize for "squirreliest" contestant ever. He's responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor," says Probst, who's heard a few whoppers....
To this:
Jon could be the liar. Someone else could be the liar. Jeff did not say that Jon was the liar.
????
The above may be the "greatest lie ever told!"
I haven't any clue about the reporter for this so I don't necessarily disbelieve the recantation, I'm just curious about it.

--can't believe she's up and spoiling so darn early in the morning

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
09-25-03, 10:50 AM (EST)

95. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

Hi Honey!
Here's the retraction from the Reporter (at Phoenix)...
http://resources.survivorphoenix.com/postnuke/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=712

Krautboy

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
09-25-03, 12:09 PM (EST)

96. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

Now with his retraction, I'm not sure what to think, the whole thing smells a little to me anyway. He jots down Dalton is the liar but says he may have gotten confused due to this Ontario election; sounds strange and how many stories is he working on while he is interviewing Jeff

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 12:24 PM (EST)

97. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

I'm with Misto, it seems really odd. What, did JP call him up and say "I did NOT say Jon was the liar?" It sounds like it. Whatever.
Anyway, I have a feeling that when the lie is told, it's going to be very obvious, because the person is going to say it was a lie in a confessional 2 minutes later.

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-25-03, 04:03 PM (EST)

108. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

>>What, did JP call him up and say "I did NOT say Jon was the liar?" It sounds like it. Whatever.<<
I think it's more likely he's had a whole mess of Survivor fans & spoilers calling him.
I seriously doubt he actually interviewed JP one-on-one -- so JP probably doesn't even know who he is.
Just think of how many newspapers must have run Survivor articles. There's no way JP did that many interviews, and no way he (or MB or CBS) checked that many newspapers by hand. And if JP/MB/CBS are getting their press from a clipping service, they probably haven't even seen the article yet (clipping services take AT LEAST 2-3 weeks to get clips to you -- it's part of my job).
It's most likely that if JP/MB/CBS found out about the Toronto article, it was via the websites rather than actually seeing the paper.

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VolcanicGlass 428 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
09-25-03, 12:36 PM (EST)

98. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

I wrote to Bill Brioux and asked him if he was sure about the quote.
I don't know if all the reporters got their talking points that way, but most of them participated in conference calls, so the reporting ought to have been the same for all articles that came out around the premiere. This reporter was the only one to write that Probst had named Jon as a liar, hence the quote was suspicious to me.
The reporter checked his notes and has now posted a retraction. It does NOT mean that Jon is not the liar. He may well be. It just means that Jeff never said that it was Jon.

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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
09-25-03, 03:52 PM (EST)

106. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

>>but most of them participated in conference calls<<
This is what I found out from some of my co-workers.
(I work with several folks that have journalism backgrounds -- print & TV)
Most reporters will have the conference calls or feeds, some may go on junkets & get their 5 minutes with Jiffy, and a few of the biggies will get interviews (maybe TV Guide, EW)
So unless the Toronto Sun is big enough to warrant their own interview, he was listening to the same thing that everyone else did.
It was pretty apparent in the initial article that he was not really a Survivor fan, so wouldn't really care or be aware of the importance of keeping the details straight.
From the get-go, it sounded to me like he heard the 3 or 4 major S7 teasers that JP & MB have tossed out there & compressed them into one event.
To me, it's far more likely that some reporter listening to a feed in Toronto screwed up than that JP told this ONE GUY who lied.
(I hate to say I told you so.....)

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TeamJoisey 3558 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-25-03, 01:00 PM (EST)

100. "RE: Reporter Confession or Coverup?"

He's responsible for "the greatest lie ever told on Survivor," says Probst, who's heard a few whoppers....
Let me speak from the perspective of a newspaper editor with lots of reporting experience. I think the reporter is being coy, and is somewhat accurate in both stories.
That first sentence does not say Jon tells the lie.
He is "responsible for" the lie. Which just might means he triggers the conversation or circumstances that lead to the lie.
The retraction says that he wrote down "Jon is the liar," which he may have written down. But in writing the story, he actually remembered Jeff's phrasing to be "responsible for the biggest lie." So that's what he wrote.
I don't think Jeff told the reporter what the lie was, or who told it. I think Jeff chose the wording "responsible for."
Now the reporter doesn't know any more than that, and he wants the readers to stop bugging him for more info. CBS flacks have reached out the reporter to clarify what he wrote. So he writes a simple retraction saying "I know nothing" and tries to put it behind him.

But there are plenty of scenarios that involve Jon, a big lie that the others won't learn until the show airs, and then big regrets.
Perhaps, for instance, Jon has sex with Christa. He brags and Christa denies it, brutally humilating him in the process. But CBS basically proves her to be lying. Christa is the liar, Jon is "responsible," and the regret would be obvious. The girl is supposed to be married soon.
Jeff did say he is waiting for it to play out, but that the other contestants still do not know about the lie. This means there will be some strong reactions when the truth is revealed in one of the episodes. Maybe Jeff is waiting to see if Christa's fiance forgives her.

These reality show contestants need a reality check!

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citygirl 35 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
09-25-03, 01:00 PM (EST)

99. "SF Radio station "big twist""

I am relatively sure I heard on my local radio station that the big twist is that EVERY time you win a challenge, you get to raid the other team's camp. Now, it's my first week without coffee at breakfast (what was I thinking) and it all happened really quickly. But it was a promo for tonight's shows and I'm pretty sure it said, "The big twist on Survivor... every time you win a challenge, you raid the other camp". Not a very big twist if you ask me and it doesn't explain any of the other spoilers about someone coming back, etc.

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TeamJoisey 3558 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
09-25-03, 01:03 PM (EST)

101. "RE: SF Radio station "big twist""

I heard the same thing on a commercial on WCBS-AM in NYC this morning.
"Every time you win a challenge, you raid the other team's camp."
There's a twist.

These reality show contestants need a reality check!

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LeftPinky 4150 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
09-25-03, 01:28 PM (EST)

102. "RE: SF Radio station "big twist""

Bad news for the Drakes.... after one visit to Morgan, there isn't anything else to get!

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 02:50 PM (EST)

103. "RE: SF Radio station "big twist""

Rupert could always take Osten's shorts, his girth should hold them up. And poor Osten would be left permanently naked.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 03:17 PM (EST)

104. "RE: SF Radio station "big twist""

And poor Osten would be left permanently naked.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Oops, how OT of me!
*smacks her nose with Morgans map to the water source*

--is trying, truly she is

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 03:29 PM (EST)

105. "RE: SF Radio station "big twist""

Osten probably would think it was a good thing, now that you mention it.
And if Rupert took Osten's shorts, would Andrew and Ryan O. have to hand their shorts over as well, since they promised Osten they'd get naked whenever he did?

Give Morgan their map back, Misto. You know they won't remember where the well is without it.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
09-25-03, 04:01 PM (EST)

107. "Starting a new thread"

Since this ones getting big and we're going to "hopefully" have some new ideas and information regaring the Big Lie/Big Regret after tonights episode, I'm going to start a new thread with a link to this discussion so we can keep things neat and tidy.
mistofleas --omits her sig pic to be helpful to the diap up peeps

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