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"NFL Draft Complaining Thread"
Estee 57013 desperate attention whore postings
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05-08-14, 08:52 PM (EST)
 
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1. "ESPN's coverage" |
"We now interrupt our endless debate of Johnny Football in order to reluctantly announce a draft pick."
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Estee 57013 desperate attention whore postings
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05-09-14, 06:59 AM (EST)
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4. "Manziel to Cleveland." |
Oh dear gawds. Let the punishment fit the crime...
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-14, 09:03 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
There are positive results for the Browns for their draft of Manzeil (besides the fact that they got a QB cheap that could take them to the Super Bowl in a few years, and who might actually be the best QB ever to put on shoulder pads), such as the immediate sale of approx. 3000 season tickets and immediate swamping of stores selling Manzeil #2 jerseys and other Johnny Football gear.Go Johnny Football. I can't believe that this guy, who was absolutely the best QB (not excluding Bortles or Winston in '13, IMO) and most entertaining player for the last two years, is on so many people's hate list. And for what? Partying? (who didn't, in college). Signing helmets? His attitude? He was a 19 YO thrust into the national spotlite, on a team which just joined the SEC and who managed to knock off the #1 team in the nation for that and the previous two years, who wouldn't be affected? Lincoln, maybe? Or Ghandi? Mohammad? But a normal kid from a small East Texas town? I think we have to give him a break on that point. I'm used to people in Alabama resenting his success, they really hate him for his defeat of Alabama and basically blowing out the SEC in '12, but really, what has he done to deserve this kind of hate from elsewhere? Why is excellence a reason for resentment?
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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05-16-14, 04:32 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
It's not so much that he excelled in the tough SEC that is the reason for resentment against Manziel. For one, he's abrasive, arrogant, self important and smug -- not the best traits you want to see a locker room leader to possess. There are plenty of QBs out there who don't act like they're the cock of the walk, so I'd rather look up to them. (And yes, I'm aware that there are plenty of dimwits out there, some worse than Manziel, but Manziel comes off as incredibly spoiled)Not defending Dez Bryant as he's a tool as well, but here's a sampling of the difference on the entitlement that Manziel got -- Manziel was caught on camera signing autographs and the companies that brought him on for the autograph session admitted they paid him, but he got a "slap on the wrist" missing half of a game against a creampuff opponent, while Dez Bryant merely had a meal paid for by a former NFL player, which resulted in a 10-game suspension and being labelled as a "bad seed". A lot of what I've seen from Manziel off the field is reminiscent of Matt Leinart - and Leinart was a major tool who thought he was better than everyone else. But good luck to Manziel - he gets to go up against the defenses of the Ravens, Bengals and Steelers six times a year with that questionable offensive line.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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05-20-14, 10:41 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
"For one, he's abrasive, arrogant, self important and smug..."Did you even watch his games? Or his interviews? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't describe him in the interviews I've seen. Exuberant, yes. Young, yes. Smug, well, heck yes, look at what he did, he should have a large share of smugness. But abrasive? Arrogant? Self important? I don't see any more of that in his interviews that one might expect from anyone that has achieved what he has. Especially "abrasive". That's way off, he has always exhibited friendliness, even to the most obtrusive elements of the media. And the media circus he has had to deal with (as a 19-20 YO, mind you) has been intense. I suspect this won't change your opinion of him, but it does present a more humble Johnny Manzeil that the one you depicted. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000351569/article/johnny-manziel-shuns-idea-of-kyle-field-bearing-his-name He seems relatively down to earth and likeable here. IMO.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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05-21-14, 02:51 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
Everybody has their opinions, and everybody is entitled to them. But you really twisted Flacco's remark. To quote your reference; Defending Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco took the Manzeil controversy in the other direction over the weekend, commenting: “I don’t know if I’ll be too popular for this … But I don’t know how I really felt about Johnny Manzeil, but I feel like now everyone hates him. He’s quickly becoming my favorite player in college football.” This sounds like admiration, or a compliment of sorts, not nearly as negative as how you portrayed it. Every interview I've seen of Manzeil has been of an articulate young man, not humble maybe, but also not abrasive, not arrogant, willing to share of credit with teammates, and complimentary of opponents. Basically, a decent young man. Football is full of players that show enthusiasm on the field after a play or a win. And they do it different ways. Tebow took heat for his dropping to a knee after a win. But those things are part of the game on all levels. In fact, that’s part of all sports at all levels. Even chess champs might pound their chest after a win. If you’ve played sports, or even had an occasion where you did exceptionally well at anything, I would bet you felt like a victory dance or some sort of exuberance. There’s a lot adrenaline flowing in these moments, too.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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07-29-14, 12:22 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
Two sports Op-Ed pieces. Two preseason early training camp Op-Ed pieces based on (surprise surprise) the news that the Cleveland Brown’s veteran quarterback is the presumptive starter. So far. By two writers with an anti-Johnny football bias because this 20-21 YO Heisman trophy winner (first college freshman in history to do that) who has been thrust into the NCAA and now the NFL spotlight has done some partying in his personal time.Shame on him. How dare he enjoy life. He should have been in church. He has sullied the reputation of all athletes, all American’s, and apparently a few Canadians. Two Op-Ed pieces that aren’t worth their electronic digital weight. OK, these guys have to write something, deadlines and all, and that’s where they went. Understandable, and they probably did Manzeil a favor, it’s when they stop writing about you that worry should set in. Hoyer’s a veteran, and has talent. But he’s a journeyman at best, as his stats, QB rating, and travels thru the NFL show. The odds on bet is that Cleveland will start him, but I bet they will also be anxious to put Manzeil on the field. He’ll get a chance to show if he can get a pass over the NFL defenders and do some of the amazing things he did in college. From a potential point of view, Manzeil is Cleveland’s best hope. And realistically, their only hope. Hoyer couldn’t do for them. So far, Manzeil’ s jersey is the hottest item in NFL merchandising, so if for no other reason than that we soon will see what Johnny can do. It would be nice to see a reemergence of the Browns, they have a proud history, although it’s been a few decades since their heyday.
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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12-23-14, 11:42 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 12-24-14 AT 10:45 AM (EST)So how did Johnny Football do this year? ? And he just came out this afternoon and said, "I have to take this a lot more seriously." Really? Let's see: - Falling in the draft a lot further than expected
- Getting less money to sign than expected
- Getting caught in inappropriate situations a few times
- Being scolded by the coaching staff and ownership for his behaviour
- After this scolding and then being seen on Instagram with a rolled up $100 bill, declaring: "I'm not going to change who I am for anybody"
- Caught on camera giving the Redskins bench the finger in pre-season and saying he regretted the move
- Not getting the starting job over Brian Hoyer
- Continuing his behaviour throughout the season that got him into trouble earlier
- Not getting a start until Week 15, weeks after Hoyer had already started to wilt
- Defensive players knocking each other down to taunt him with the money rubbing hands
- Getting knocked out for the season on an innocuous play ... And NOW he realizes he has to take it a lot more seriously? I'm not ready to buy his comments yet, because he was seen laughing it up with a teammate on the bench after he left the game with the injury while the score was 30-0 against his team. Any other guy would be pissed beyond belief and studying the game pics to see where he went wrong and start thinking about the next game. Don't believe me? Check out the losing team's sideline any time it's shown on TV. Hey, Ryan Leaf? You've got company.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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12-30-14, 03:15 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 12-30-14 AT 03:29 PM (EST)Not yet my friend. His first game start, with starters (esp. the receivers who had no time to coordinate timing and patterns with him) was disappointing. He was looking better in his second start before being hurt. Give him the preseason to work out timing kinks and Johnny Football will do much better. They came close to the playoffs with a so-so journeyman QB, Hoyer, with JM they will make in. If they keep him. Hoyer would make a decent backup. He was a first round pick. Not too shabby. But his draft position was also disappointing. However that wasn’t his decision, I thought Houston should have taken him, and I think they may regret passing on him, like Cleveland they are probably just a good QB away from being a playoff team. And I have faith that in time he will learn the baseball slide. I also think it’s more than likely that the most dynamic quarterback that the NCAA has seen in many years, the freshman who led a team who had just joined the SEC and that season led the Aggies to a win over the number one NCAA football team in the nation as well as other heavy hitters in the SEC, and who became the first freshman in history to win the Heisman, will also shine in the NFL. IMO, future HOF. So let’s not jump the gun on the crow, the denouement still awaits. If Cleveland trades him, and they might, they will live to regret it (IMO), and another team with a QB deficiency will be forever grateful that they did. As far as partying goes, so what? Let’s count the number of 20YO newly minted first round pick in the NFL millionaires not from BYU - Oh wait, Jim McMahon, didn’t he define after hours partying a few years ago? - who didn’t party. And see if you even need two hands to do so. As to the most recent episode, it’s become a tradition for quarterbacks to wine and dine their teammates after games, esp. their linemen. As a rookie making his first starts, it was even more important for him to do so. True, they need to show up on time for walk-throughs the next day, but if they don’t that’s on them. Being injured, apparently JM had an excused absence. As a 20 YO newly minted millionaire, he kinda has a right to live life. I would be willing to bet that there haven’t been many if any HOF QBs that didn’t grab for the gusto at 20 or so (speaking of Jets, anyone heard of Broadway Joe? Class of 85? Anyone? Anyone? Also ridiculed for brashness? Not only partied but actually bought a bar? Remember him?). Nor will he be the last.
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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12-30-14, 05:22 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 12-30-14 AT 05:35 PM (EST)Re: As to the most recent episode, it’s become a tradition for quarterbacks to wine and dine their teammates after games, esp. their linemen. As a rookie making his first starts, it was even more important for him to do so. True, they need to show up on time for walk-throughs the next day, but if they don’t that’s on them. Being injured, apparently JM had an excused absence. By all accounts, he was NOT "wining and dining" his teammates and he was hitting the bottle pretty hard at a very late hour when he knew he was supposed to be there at the team's facility the next morning. As documented in other posts below, other injured players were professional enough to show up for all walk-throughs and treatments on time, Manziel chose to not show the respect for other members of his team in this regard. Manziel is 22, not 20. And today's quarterbacks are expected to be a team leader to set the tone for the rest of the team - Cleveland sure went into the tank down the stretch, didn't they? It was a thing for guys to party and get away with being a bit out of shape back in the 1970s and 1980s, but it's a very different story in today's football environment. Even so, using Jim McMahon as an example is a poor one. He had that one great season in 1985 (he was still only the 11th ranked QB that year), but did not have a very good career otherwise. Look at the number of games started after his second season (when he started in 13 games): 9, 11, 6, 6, 9, 11, 0 (when he went to Philly), 11, 1, 12, 1, 0, 0. Not a single full 16-game season, and the most he ever started in these years was 75% of a schedule (12 of 16). Likewise, McMahon's ranking amongst QBs in these years: 17, 20, 11, 36, 20, 27, 22, 58, 21, 55, 25, 56. Gee, maybe partying too much wasn't such a good thing for McMahon's career after all, eh? As for Joe Namath, yes he had a terrific first five years in the league, then could not stay healthy after that. He had a below .500 record for his career as a whole. Take a look at today's top 20 QBs, can you tell me if any single one of them have a reputation for partying? The closest one is Kaepernick - and he's already got some whispers of losing some trust from his teammates and his team just had a pretty crappy year.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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12-31-14, 11:01 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
Hitting the bottle is wining and dining in the lower 48. You're making a distinction without a difference there. And Pepe, he just turned 22 earlier this month. I will admit I made a 2 year mistake, he isn’t 20, he is 22. I’ll try to be more precise in the future.Joe Namath was in the 1985 class of inductees into the NFL Hall of Fame after a 12 year career. And he did that on wobbly knees, injured while he was at Alabama. In college. He wasn’t healthy for those first 5 pro years either. His big year was Super Bowl III, but he also played on three division championship teams. He persisted long after he should have retired as many greats do, and brought down his stats and QB rating considerably because of that. But you know, it really doesn't look good to besmirch the career of an NFL great just to make a really misplaced point about someone you've taken personal offense to. He is an undeniably apt example of my point; he was criticized pretty much along the same lines as JM (Joe Namath is the NFL epitome of Brashness and Partying), yet he’s an NFL icon, and if that isn’t your opinion, then it’s at least the opinion of the HOF voters. McMahon was a successful NFL QB for 15 years, and also serves as an apt example of a young QB that was criticized by critics for his brashness and off field partying, and who went on to have a successful career (1985 Superb Bowl XX win? Not mediocre by any definition, except yours perhaps). If Johnny Manzeil has the success of Joe Willie or even McMahon, he will have had a great career, and will have served as another example of misplaced puritanical criticism. And gee, maybe getting older and sustaining injuries isn't a great way to enhance an NFL career either. Maybe all NFL players should be criticized for that too. BTW, so what was OK in the 80’s is castigated now? Your metrics seem to be on a sliding scale.
Crabman
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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12-31-14, 12:15 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 12-31-14 AT 12:36 PM (EST)Oh, so if my metrics are on a sliding scale, then why is the owner (Haslem) publicly castigating Johnny PartyAnimal if it's a normal thing for quarterbacks to do? Why is there already doubt within the Browns organization that Manziel is the answer? (Hint: Teams tend to frown on mediawhore QBs who put their self-interests above the team's interests) Why are no other quarterbacks partying like it's the end of the world? Oh, right, because they're responsible and they want to win. Johnny PartyAnimal puts himself first before the team, does not apparently care much about winning or he'd be doing all of the little things to make sure he improves his team's chances of winning. It's called professionalism. It's hard to take the Hall of Fame process seriously when they induct Joe Willie Namath with a below .500 career winning percentage and more interceptions thrown than touchdowns. Sorry, while Joe Namath is indeed a legend, he's a legend more for what he did off the field and for that one Super Bowl boast than for anything he did on the field - he got in because he was a media superstar more than an on-field superstar. (Disclaimer: I'm a Bama fan and Namath played for Bama). Even today, many people think of the Suzy Kolber incident when Joe Namath's name is brought up. Meh, if you want to call it a "15-year successful career" for Jim McMahon based on one Super Bowl season and little else, by all means go ahead. There were dozens of QBs better than him and few would put his on-field exploits over his off-field exploits when you look back and talk about Jim McMahon. He's better remembered for his mouth and for his Pete Rozelle headband protests than for anything he did on the field. And it's not a surprise in the least bit that McMahon is one of the few to publicly support Manziel - I guess the documented case of dementia that McMahon is currently battling is worse than I thought! The best you seem to say is that Johnny Manziel is best compared to two guys with injury-ravaged careers more memorable for what they did off the field instead of being compared to other guys who go on to have legitimate, respected careers such as the Mannings, Andrew Luck, etc. These guys let their performances speak for themselves instead of being jackasses (Manziel's own word to describe himself) off the field. I'll take the respected, responsible QBs any time over a self-described jackass, thank you very much.
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kingfish 17983 desperate attention whore postings
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12-31-14, 06:18 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 01-06-15 AT 11:09 AM (EST)
It's revealing that you place your football judgment over the football professionals that voted Joe Willie in.
More revealing of your judgment than theirs, IMO.
McMahon went 15-1 and won a super bowl on an all time great team. Admittedly with one of the best defenses, but you don’t score without an offense. And lasted 15 years in the pros, mostly as a starter. Yeah, that's a successful NFL career. And you can't be serious if you think that no other newly minted first round draft picks in the NFL aren’t partiers. Or even the veterans. This is planet earth, Pepe. Pro and amateur athletes alike are always making those kind of headlines. Maybe they don’t make the headlines up there, but they do here. All.
…The.
… …Time. The sliding scale you seem to be using is your approval of antics in the 80s that for some reason you think are no longer worthy of approval. Read what I wrote. It’s OK, then, but not now? I enjoy this discussion, but try and be a little more consistent with your criticisms. Haslam is an owner who is frustrated that his team barely missed the playoffs. Don’t read too much into what he says now, he also had some choice things to say about Gordon (and the team in general), and there is no way he’s going to do anything about him either. IMO. My guess is that Pettine is closest to the exit because of his extremely questionable handling of the QB situation this year which ended up with a second rate starter who basically blew the season for Cleveland. I don’t know for sure what their record would have been under JM, but they failed without him. So if they had to go back and do it all over I’m sure they would have started JM in the beginning. Actually Conner Shaw (the third string Cleveland rookie QB) would probably have done better than Hoyer. Shaw was impressive in preseason, even accounting for the fact that he was probably playing against 2nd or 3rd string opponents. Pettine just screwed up. Look, I can’t foretell the future any more than you can, and I admit I’m biased in JM’s favor. That’s mostly because I want to see him (or anyone) tear up the NFL with the electrifying performances that he had in the SEC. It’s that kind of entertainment I seek, and I’ll stand here all day and argue that that’s a good thing, something to be fervently wished for, and worthy of forgiveness for juvenile off-field peccadillos. The NFL is a business, not a church. I think it’s unfair and unwise to judge him or anyone’s football ability based on no, or on just very limited performance data, or (especially) on his lack of “proper” attitude. If Haslam is going to judge him on that, that’s his right and if he wants to trade him because he acts like any other young man might act, then so be it. Johnny Football is neither the first, nor the worst, nor the last millionaire athlete to show that he’s not the epitome of a mature, well rounded young man with perfect judgment. He probably has missed a Sunday service on occasion, too. But the guy does have exceptional talent, and IMO can be a great NFL QB. Give him time to wise up before passing judgment.
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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12-27-14, 08:54 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
LAST EDITED ON 12-28-14 AT 01:43 PM (EST)Well, that didn't take long. Four days after saying, "I have to take this seriously," Manziel apparently forgot his New Year's resolution before the New Year even started -- he showed up late for treatment and got fined by the team. ETA... and another report says he missed the pre-game walk-through along with Josh Gordon, who has just been suspended for tomorrow's game. New deets from ESPN: ...Manziel had to be present for either the walk-through or, since he was on injured reserve, treatment for his injured hamstring. When he did not show for either, the team had to search for him. Browns security on Saturday morning visited Manziel's home in Cleveland to check on the rookie quarterback about his treatment, sources told ESPN's Jeremy Fowler and Pat McManamon. Because Manziel was late, he was fined, a source said. Other Browns this season attended walk-throughs while on IR, including Miles Austin, who did not miss one after being declared out for the season with a lacerated kidney. ETA again: The news get even better: Manziel hosted a huge party on Friday night that several Browns were at, which ultimately led to Manziel getting fined, Gordon suspended and a couple of other players also getting some form of discipline: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/johnny-manziel-reportedly-throws-big-party--leading-to-more-trouble-165709375.html Let's hear it for leadership! Johnny PartyAnimal is leading the team right into the ground...
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michel2 532 desperate attention whore postings
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12-28-14, 06:50 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Manziel to Cleveland." |
For Josh Gordon, that suspension could be very costly. Since I won't have played a minimum of 6 games, it seems he would have to wait an additional year to become eligible for free agency.
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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05-11-14, 07:11 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Ha-Ha Clinton-Dix" |
Sounds like something Monica Lewinsky might have said back in 1996.
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PepeLePew13 25501 desperate attention whore postings
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05-12-14, 02:13 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Finally..." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-19-14 AT 04:42 PM (EST)Good for Sam, still looks like he's a backup to Chris Long at best, but at least he's getting a legit shot at making the team. Of personal interest is Adham Talaat who is getting a tryout with the Seahawks. He's a product of Gallaudet University and if he should make the Hawks, they'll have two Deaf players on the same team with Derrick Coleman already there. ETA: Talaat was one of two defensive players that earned a mention from Pete Carroll as standouts. http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/6217/rookie-minicamp-ends-with-deja-vu
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