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"Historical Mistake"
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Gaelraven 64 desperate attention whore postings
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04-22-04, 09:34 PM (EST)
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"Historical Mistake"
Just wanted to correct Fiona's mistake. Nineteen people did not die by hanging at Gallows Hill. It was eighteen. One was pressed to death.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Historical Mistake Deonna 04-22-04 1
   RE: Historical Mistake Gaelraven 04-22-04 2
 RE: Historical Mistake silentJ 04-23-04 3
 RE: Historical Mistake Swami 04-23-04 4
   RE: Historical Mistake mistofleas 04-23-04 5
       RE: Historical Mistake Gaelraven 04-23-04 6
           RE: Historical Mistake mistofleas 04-23-04 7
               Total of 19 executed, including 1 p... AZ_Leo 04-23-04 8
                   RE: Total of 19 executed, including... Gaelraven 04-23-04 9
                   RE: Total of 19 executed, including... mistofleas 04-23-04 11
                       RE: Total of 19 executed, including... AZ_Leo 04-23-04 13
                           RE: Total of 19 executed, including... mistofleas 04-23-04 15
                               RE: Total of 19 executed, including... AZ_Leo 04-23-04 16
       Fiona's Flower I_AM_HE 04-23-04 10
           RE: Fiona's Flower mistofleas 04-23-04 12
               RE: Fiona's Flower Swami 04-23-04 14
                   RE: Fiona's Flower Gaelraven 04-23-04 17
                       RE: Fiona's Flower mistofleas 04-23-04 18
                           RE: Fiona's Flower Swami 04-23-04 19
                               RE: Fiona's Flower Morgannon 01-14-06 21
 RE: Historical Mistake Deonna 04-23-04 20

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Deonna 2425 desperate attention whore postings
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04-22-04, 10:08 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Historical Mistake"
Thanks for the info. Can you tells us more about what happen at Gallows Hill or provide a link or reference to read about it?

Thanks

Deonna

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Gaelraven 64 desperate attention whore postings
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04-22-04, 10:20 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Historical Mistake"
Can you tell I drive up to Salem every year? LOL
This is one of the better websites. can explain better then me. It even has a timeline an a transcrips from the trials.

http://www.salemwitchtrials.com/

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silentJ 336 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 03:27 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Historical Mistake"
And how many drowned as a result of the hangings?
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Swami 5883 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 08:37 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Historical Mistake"
On the show, I thought the "hanging" was a pretty cool stunt. The hanged went straight down, without a splash in sight. I may have to go over to SciFi next to see if I can find out how they did that!

Even ripping into water feet first makes some splash. I noticed everyone kept their hands tight to their sides as they went down, so some coaching was involved. And the other contestants sure looked doubtfully concerned when the person beside them disappeared. My guess is that this stunt was demonstrated to them first so they would have some confidence in the process.


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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 10:49 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Historical Mistake"
Mr.Fleas watched for the first time last night. He asked if I was getting online after Survivor and I explained I had a new vice, MMH and needed to watch that first. I explained the premise and he said he'd give it a whirl. After the previews and the first segment, he just looked at me, laughed and said "Damn, I love America!". "This is stupid, inane, ridiculous, wierd and just plain dumb...I love it!" The trial came up and after the first hanging he again looked at me and said..."That's it? That's the hanging? Pfft...not interested anymore."

I think it was the "drama" that Fiona tried to put into it and failed at doing. Also, while it was cool the way they did it, there really wasn't any "fear" that would be involved, other than losing privileges. They knew they weren't going to be hurt so the "hanging" was kind of lame, IMO.

As far as the historical significance, I'd have rather Fiona chose something other than Salem. The Salem witch trials were towards the end of the burning times. Men (though only about 25% were men), women and children were executed starting as early as the 12th century all over Eurpoe. There were relatively few executions or accusations for that matter here in the colonies. Besides, the people hung in Salem were most likely NOT witches anyway. Give a Puritan a cow that dies and someone, somewhere is gonna cry witch!
(and actually Gaelraven, Fiona was correct, 19 were hung. 1 was pressed to death, quite a few more died in prison. Source: List of names), as well as from the link you used in your post #2 Salem Witch Trials. Not that I believe anything that Fiona says cuz frankly she's about as intuitive as a rock, but gotta give the research team credit for at least giving her the right information.

Also, what the heck is up with Ta'Shai NOT asking people about the mindset before just jumping to conclusions. Jamie is helping clean the bathroom because she thought Ta'Shai looked tired and needed rest so didn't want to disturb her. So, as opposed to just asking Jamie why she didn't join her in the bedroom, Ta'Shai just "assumes" it's because Jamie doesn't want to get to know her and gives her a necklace. Sorry but that didn't make me feel good about Ta'Shai. Especially in light of her not talking to Noel about stuff either. I gave her Noel, but the Jamie thing, that showed that she's more willing to listen to her own counsel than give people a chance to explain. Not too enlightened in my book.


--won't even mention Fiona and the flower/note fiasco

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Gaelraven 64 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 11:50 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Historical Mistake"
Well acording to the many museums in Salem. 19 all together 18 hanged one , Giles Corey was pressed to death.

I thought the hanging thing was a bit tacky. People(many innocent people and not just in Salem died that way)
They could have done something else.

Ohh and what was with Fiona getting made a Loana for not giving her flowers!?!

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 12:20 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Historical Mistake"
Okay, I don't mean to be pissy here, but according to the site that you yourself listed in your post #2 Salem Witch Trials, they have listed 19 people hanged. The site I listed in my post #5 List of Names lists 19 people hanged. Then you said "Well acording to the many museums in Salem"...18 people hanged, Corey Giles pressed to death. So, with the thought that perhaps the Salem museums may be listing it differently I went to several Salem museum websites. The first one:The Salem Witch Museum it lists 19 people hanged. Then the Witch History Museum lists 19 hanged "one old man crushed to death. (though it's not a great site and it's hard to read, yet it is written there).
Then there's the Witch Dungeon Museum listing 19 hanged, 1 pressed to death.

What I'm getting at is while it seems a silly point, to press that it was indeed 19 people hanged, I think it's number one, important to make sure everyone that died is honored and number two, give credit where credit is due, that Fiona (or her research team) was correct.

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 12:42 PM (EST)
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8. "Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
LAST EDITED ON 04-23-04 AT 01:02 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 04-23-04 AT 12:54PM (EST)

Here's an edu site that includes original source material. It lists 19 people executed, one of whom was Giles Cory who was crushed to death.

In addition, it lists 5 having died in jail, 1 an infant girl.

This site has a lot of interesting source material

http://etext.virginia.edu/salem/witchcraft/

I few other details I remember from when I studied this in school:

It actually took place in Salem Village which is now called Danvers.

There was a great deal of tension between Salem Village and Salem Town and if you look at the location of the accusers and accused you see that one set came primarily from the town or had links to the town and the others came from the village (I'm not 100% sure but I think accusers were villagers trying to keep their way of life and accused were town trying to be more progressive).

A few decades later, a group of youngsters exhibited very similar symptoms but the mood of the country had changed and it was interpreted as being touched by god not the devil.

eta: OOPS. According to the memorial site, there are 20 memorials so it does seem to be 19 hanged and 1 pressed.
http://www.salemweb.com/memorial/stonesintro.shtml

Also, here is a site with a lot of non-tourist links for further research.

http://www.17thc.us/index.php?id=12

ETA: another page of links
http://womenshistory.about.com/cs/salempeople/

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Gaelraven 64 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 12:47 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
"It actually took place in Salem Village which is now called Danvers."

Yes, many people don't know that. Acually there are alot of locations to see in Danvers as well.


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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 01:14 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
Thanks for the link AZ, it's a very interesting site. I love looking at old court documents. Maybe it's the lawyer in me!


--needs to eat lunch now but has kind of lost her appetite from all this death talk

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 01:56 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
History has always fascinated. I took a history of witchcraft course when I was in college. The gist was that persecution of witches (and others) had little to do with religion, that was simply the weapon. It was all about maintaining and increasing control.

Have you heard the theory on how the deaths of millions due to plague can be attributed to the witch trials? In addition to the women and men who were executed there were mass executions of cats because they were considered familiars. In some places cats were completely wiped out. No cats meant there was nothing to keep the rat population in check. More rats meant more plague carrying fleas which meant more plague.

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 02:38 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
More rats meant more plague carrying fleas which meant more plague.

I've always been very opposed to the theory that fleas caused the plagues!

The gist was that persecution of witches (and others) had little to do with religion, that was simply the weapon. It was all about maintaining and increasing control.

Yup, I agree completely. I believe it started with the Catholic church as a way to have control over the poor pagan peasants, but grew way beyond that into a political nightmare. The burning times were a big black spot in our history. Starhawk wrote of it in her book Spiral Dance in an appendix called "The Burning Times". If you get a chance, read it, it's wonderful.


--has read Spiral Dance so many times she's had to replace the book

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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 03:44 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Total of 19 executed, including 1 pressed."
I've always been very opposed to the theory that fleas caused the plagues!

But these are good, karmic fleas that really did the world a favor. As horrible as it was at the time, it led to many, many good things including, possibly, the renaissance and a serious change in society as a whole, away from the whole serf-master thing. We should be thanking these fleas and you can be very proud.

All persecution is based on control. I do have the book and started reading it based on your recommendation but I have gotten busy with all the school reading. I'm looking forward to a couple of weeks from now when I can stop reading about instructional design and learning theories and writing and go back to something more enjoyable.

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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 01:05 PM (EST)
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10. "Fiona's Flower"
May have been the most hysterically funny segment of this show!
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 01:20 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
Totally agree HE. Man, Fiona made an ass out of herself. Then she took it out on Loana. Talk about anger displacement!

I'd think that Eric not piping up and saying that it was him would have raised Fiona's ire more than the fact that Loana didn't give it to her. I mean, he's the one that let her just go on and on about Loana giving her the flower. He could have said something at anytime but didn't.

They're all losing face in my book.

Except Art. I really like art.


--wouldn't want him hanging on her walls though

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Swami 5883 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 02:13 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
(back online for 5 minutes)

Agree on Art! He is not judgemental at all. Avocado is not judgemental either, but he seems a little preachy. Art keeps his own counsel appropriately.


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Gaelraven 64 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 03:46 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
Don't everyone get their panties in an uproar!!!
I just like picking on Fiona. That stunt was in very bad taste.
She looked like she was enjoying it. It's like "Yeah people were falsely accused and hanged as witches, Let me do it to you now!"

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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 03:55 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
Don't everyone get their panties in an uproar!!!

There's no uproar here as far as I can see.

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Swami 5883 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 05:52 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
Besides--who wears panties?

Not that there's anything wrong with panty wearing...

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Morgannon 4 desperate attention whore postings
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01-14-06, 09:34 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Fiona's Flower"
I'm originally Scottish, so nobody, heh. Wee bit draughty i'd think.
Anywho, I digress...
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Deonna 2425 desperate attention whore postings
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04-23-04, 06:32 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Historical Mistake"
I want to thank everyone who took the time to provided a link.

Thanks again,

Deonna

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