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"Blurred lines"
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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 03:58 PM (EST)
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"Blurred lines"
I'm conflicted on the possible mysogeny of this video/song. On the one hand, it seems like it's just a song and people should get over it. OTOH, is there some question as to if the sing/video promote the message that "no" does not mean no?

As a father of a 17yo daughter, I'm not 100% comfortable. But I also hate ovversensitivity.

Apparently, it's pretty controversial so perhaps OT can set me straight here.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Blurred lines dabo 09-09-13 1
   Defined Lines Puffy 09-09-13 10
 RE: Blurred lines Estee 09-09-13 2
 Lyrics. Estee 09-09-13 3
   RE: Lyrics. dabo 09-09-13 8
       RE: Lyrics. foonermints 09-09-13 9
   RE: Lyrics. Brownroach 09-10-13 11
 RE: Blurred lines PagongRatEater 09-09-13 4
   Serious Concerns! foonermints 09-09-13 5
       RE: Serious Concerns! Estee 09-09-13 6
           RE: Serious Concerns! foonermints 09-09-13 7
           RE: Serious Concerns! AyaK 09-11-13 13
               RE: Serious Concerns! Brownroach 09-11-13 14
               That was your opinion. Estee 10-31-13 15
 RE: Blurred lines kingfish 09-11-13 12
 Thicke-skinned? Estee 07-09-14 16
 Weird Al to the rescue! Estee 07-15-14 17
   RE: Weird Al to the rescue! kingfish 07-15-14 18
       RE: Weird Al to the rescue! cahaya 07-15-14 19
   RE: Weird Al to the rescue! Brownroach 07-16-14 20
   I have nothing to say starshine 07-16-14 21
   RE: Weird Al to the rescue! Puffy 07-16-14 22
   RE: Weird Al to the rescue! HobbsofMI 07-17-14 23
       Another word crime? Brownroach 08-06-14 24
           RE: Another word crime? kingfish 08-06-14 25
           RE: Another word crime? dabo 08-06-14 26
               RE: Another word crime? Brownroach 08-06-14 27
 Worst. Copyright Infringement. Deci... Brownroach 03-11-15 28
   RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... kingfish 03-11-15 29
       RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... Brownroach 03-12-15 31
           RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... kingfish 03-12-15 33
               RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... Brownroach 03-12-15 38
   RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... personofinterest 03-11-15 30
       RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. ... Brownroach 03-12-15 32
 Case summary Estee 03-12-15 34
   RE: Case summary PepeLePew13 03-12-15 35
       RE: Case summary kidflash212 03-12-15 36
   RE: Case summary Brownroach 03-12-15 37

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dabo 26693 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 04:05 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Blurred lines"
To be honest, I've not paid attention to the song. Never seen the video, the only performance I've watched of it was on AGT awhile back. It's a catchy tune but I've no idea what he's saying, it's just kind of a snappy pop thing.

Anyway..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/03/defined-lines-robin-thicke-blurred-lines-parody_n_3860969.html

'Defined Lines' Is The Robin Thicke 'Blurred Lines' Parody That Trumps All Others

Hey, it's sparked a conversation, that at least is a good thing.

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Puffy 6654 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 10:20 PM (EST)
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10. "Defined Lines"
Thanks for posting the link to the parody. It's fantastic!
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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 04:05 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Blurred lines"
It's also kind of invisible. Are we supposed to be searching for a video named Blurred Lines? 'cause otherwise, I'm lost.

For what it's worth, I just went through this last month with, of all people ponies oh @#$% it people stupid cash grab movie... characters, Twilight Sparkle.

(I'll tell Moonbaby and Starshine on request.)

And I'm still alternating between seethe and cringe.

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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 04:20 PM (EST)
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3. "Lyrics."
LAST EDITED ON 09-09-13 AT 05:21 PM (EST)

Approach at your own risk.

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/robinthicke/blurredlines.html

For the record, I

A. now hate everyone involved with this song

B. find it to be completely typical for 90% of anything semi-English that gets blasted out of the windows as cars go through my neighborhood

C. Would not censor it, but -- no matter how uncomfortable it makes you -- should your daughter be listening to it, I'd give serious thought to sitting down with her and the lyric sheet, then going over what all of it means. It's not going to be pleasant and she'll not only hate you for it, she won't stop being humiliated for about three years. But if you're worried that she's getting the wrong message, you have to establish just what you feel that message is.

For the record, I feel it's focused on a man trying to get a woman to cheat. Get away from your lame boyfriend: I'll abuse you like I feel you should be abused. There's some unpleasant images here suggesting how he'll treat her, starting with the hair pulling and moving on from there. The sexual ones are neither subtle nor kind. But to me, based on the lyrics, it's more about a virtual order to infidelity made by an abusive egotist than it is rape.

However, I haven't watched the video yet.

And I am now rather reluctant to do so.

ETA: Okay, I now have a few words for the rated version of the video. Starting with 'cheap', 'poorly-shot', 'undirected', 'boring', and to finish off, 'self-indulgent crap'.

On the other hand, I'm sure it's a really great advertisement for AutoTune.

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dabo 26693 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 08:19 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Lyrics."
I see. It's a "bad boy" song in which Thicke's adopted persona is something of a misogynist hedonist hounddog who thinks highly of his own sexual abilities. Not exactly appropriate for a pre-teen audience, but what's the point? If it celebrates the adopted persona, promotes this as a norm that should be aspired to, that would be wrong. If it simply exposes this character as someone who exists in the world, is somewhat a norm though not one that should be aspired to, wouldn't that be getting out the word?

Robin Thicke himself doesn't seem like the Charlie Sheen character the song reveals or revels in.

Anyway, if Madonna could have a hit with "Material Girl" and that song's adopted persona (which, yeah, may not have been that much of a stretch for her), why not let Thicke reveal reality in his own way.

That said, still haven't watched the video and I'm not certain I would want to.

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foonermints 13061 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 08:34 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Lyrics."

»That said, still haven't watched the video and I'm not certain I would want to.«

You won't be missing anything, that's for sure.

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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09-10-13, 01:24 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Lyrics."
I'd give serious thought to sitting down with her and the lyric sheet, then going over what all of it means.

Such as "hey, what rhymes with hug me":

Bug me
Mug me
Slug me
are the only possibilities that make a modicum of sense. Suggest she go with #3.

And tell her never to be tolerant of false rhymes.

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PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 05:12 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Blurred lines"
I had no serious concerns until I saw the video. For the unrated version click below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwT6DZCQi9k



A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

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foonermints 13061 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 05:51 PM (EST)
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5. "Serious Concerns!"
LAST EDITED ON 09-09-13 AT 05:56 PM (EST)

I agree. That freaking Robin Williams Snickers add makes me feel like I had a bad bowl of borscht.

The rest? Just goes to show you can never stop objectifying women. Possibly good strip club music. I'll never know..

Pretty trashy. Terrible bad form in the lyric department. Foonermints gives it: FAASAP. "forget about as soon as possible"

eta: It's a heck of a good candidate to push out of the C130 over North Korea.

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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 06:04 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Serious Concerns!"
LAST EDITED ON 09-09-13 AT 06:30 PM (EST)

Possibly good strip club music.

No. No, it is not.

Because it is a classically bad idea to play any song which extolls an abusive male control freak power trip around potentially drunken patrons.

You're already waving red flags in front of bulls while saying 'No charging'. You do not need to add 'Welcome to Spain'.

And that's before we get to the repeat of 'good girl', the horrible backbeat, the total lack of music, the dubious rhythm...

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foonermints 13061 desperate attention whore postings
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09-09-13, 06:47 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Serious Concerns!"
Ah well, what do I know? Never been in one.
I see your point though.

That Robin Williams Snickers ad still has me sick.

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AyaK 10337 desperate attention whore postings
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09-11-13, 04:47 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Serious Concerns!"
The song borrows from (but doesn't plagiarize, in my opinion) Marvin Gaye's "Got to Give It Up",

Did anyone actually have any doubts as to what Marvin wanted given up?

But this song feels the need to spell it out in the rap.

The naked girls in the video don't bother me. The dumbing down of the song does.

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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09-11-13, 08:01 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Serious Concerns!"
I don't even hear it borrowing anything directly. You could say the two songs have the same general "vibe" but that's about it. When I first heard "Blurred Lines" I didn't even think of the Marvin Gaye song.

But of course, the legal actions are commencing:
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5672563/robin-thicke-vs-marvin-gaye-is-blurred-lines-a-sound-alike-poll

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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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10-31-13, 08:04 AM (EST)
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15. "That was your opinion."
The song borrows from (but doesn't plagiarize, in my opinion) Marvin Gaye's "Got to Give It Up",

The Gaye family feels differently.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57610110/marvin-gayes-children-sue-over-robin-thickes-blurred-lines/

Commerce entertainment.

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kingfish 18107 desperate attention whore postings
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09-11-13, 09:41 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Blurred lines"
FWIW, young girls often don't get into what the lyrics are actually saying.

I remember cringing back when Madonna had "Like a Virgin", and watching at a neighbor's house while her daughters, 8, 9 & 10YO, did their version. Three little girls, singing and dancing "Like a vir-r-r-gin, touched for the very first time". But as far as I could tell they were just singing the lyrics phonetically.

The Mom was beaming, proud of her girls talents, but it was a little uncomfortable for me.

It may be a "head in the sand", or a "sand in the head" way of dealing with it, but what'cha gonna do? It's part of the real world that we all and they have to learn to deal with.

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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-14, 09:39 AM (EST)
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16. "Thicke-skinned?"
http://www.mjsbigblog.com/robin-thicke-not-winning-the-internet-as-hes-trolled-during-twitter-chat.htm

http://www.rickey.org/robin-thicke-hashtag/264063/

When you think about it, his achievement is kind of impressive. Given where he was already starting from, mot just anyone would be able to raise their creep-out factor.

The Internet is for porn. And snark. Looks like someone forgot about the second part.

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Estee 57046 desperate attention whore postings
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07-15-14, 02:44 PM (EST)
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17. "Weird Al to the rescue!"
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kingfish 18107 desperate attention whore postings
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07-15-14, 05:06 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Weird Al to the rescue!"
Give Weird Al a collapse on the back. And a congrat or 2. Prop him up if u want.

However he could have commented on the chronic misuse of "Absolutely". It rhymes with not astutely. And Dumbassatutely. He could have worked it in.

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cahaya 19284 desperate attention whore postings
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07-15-14, 07:10 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Weird Al to the rescue!"
Nice clip, a bit too fast at times, it still would have scored On the Lot.

Weird Al is ancient!

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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07-16-14, 02:58 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Weird Al to the rescue!"
LAST EDITED ON 07-16-14 AT 03:04 AM (EST)

"some cunning linguist"

Heh. That comes closest to the spirit of the original. Along with Weird Al's Big Dictionary.

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starshine 129 desperate attention whore postings
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07-16-14, 09:15 AM (EST)
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21. "I have nothing to say"
So have a Cheese Sandwich

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Puffy 6654 desperate attention whore postings
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07-16-14, 10:40 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Weird Al to the rescue!"

Love it! I'm glad all the words were printed out.


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HobbsofMI 16048 desperate attention whore postings
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07-17-14, 01:24 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Weird Al to the rescue!"
I think he wrote it for me.


sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-14, 01:15 AM (EST)
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24. "Another word crime?"
So I just saw a preview for Tea Leoni's upcoming new show "Madame Secretary", in which she plays the Secretary Of State. She responds to another character's query (I think the Chief of Staff) that she accomplished something by "circumnavigating your authority".

Now I know "circumnavigate" means "to go around" but I always thought it was used strictly in a geographic sense, i.e. to physically travel around a location -- "circumnavigate the globe"; "circumnavigate a war zone". It seems to me that the correct word here would be "circumvent", which also means to "go around", but in the sense of bypassing/ignoring regulations, red tape, other abstract obstacles etc., possibly through trickery, and has no geographic connotation.

So is Tea correct to use "circumnavigate"? It really sounded odd to me. Grammarians of OT, weigh in...

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kingfish 18107 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-14, 08:55 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Another word crime?"
LAST EDITED ON 08-06-14 AT 10:53 AM (EST)


Disclaimer: I am a Grammarian in my mind only.

I am an advocate of word coinage and the inventive uses of words and phrases. I hate stodginess in language usage. It's an interpretive and creative skill.

But I agree, the use of circumnavigate seems unnecessarily clumsy and slightly inappropriate. Circumvent does seem to be closer to what she was reaching for.

Is she correct? Technically, probably so. Would circumvent have been more correct? I think so.

I like Tea Leoni though; the dialog (word usage notwithstanding) was sharp in the trailer, so I will give it a chance.

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dabo 26693 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-14, 10:26 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Another word crime?"
Odd as it sounds, Tea was correct. It was in the script! Unless she went off script, in which case it was an odd way to try to say the same thing. And it really makes no sense because if you circumnavigate you end up in the same place from which you began.
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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-14, 12:38 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Another word crime?"
I didn't mean to blame Tea; I'm sure it was in the script.

I also agree with Kingfish: the show looks like it might be good.

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-15, 00:53 AM (EST)
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28. "Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
LAST EDITED ON 03-11-15 AT 01:23 AM (EST)

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/robin-thicke-and-pharrell-lose-blurred-lines-lawsuit-20150310

No way should Marvin Gaye's estate have been awarded anything. "Blurred Lines" does not "steal" anything copyrightable from "Got To Give It Up". The Thicke/Williams team is right, this sets a horrible precedent for music and creativity.

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kingfish 18107 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-15, 10:53 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
Bieber Bash:

Justin Bieber has already set the musical and creative "horrible precedent" bar.


"The decision, which hinged on the fact that Gaye's family owned only elements of the sheet music to 'Got to Give It Up'".

Elements of the sheet music? How do they divide up sheet music into elements? Do they just own a few of the notes, or words? Or just page one and not page two? Chord progressions GCD, and not ADE?

They kept some elements and sold off others?

This had to have been a tough technical trial for a jury to deal with. And with Marvin Gaye estate on one side, it was emotionally weighted in their favor, I guess.

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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03-12-15, 00:19 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
LAST EDITED ON 03-13-15 AT 01:35 PM (EST)

"The decision, which hinged on the fact that Gaye's family owned only elements of the sheet music to 'Got to Give It Up'"

That's a clumsy way for them to have worded it, but it refers to what aspects of a musical work are actually included in the work's copyright protection.

When you apply for a copyright registration on a musical work, you have to submit a "deposit" that represents a tangible version of it (since actual music is intangible). In 1977 when the Marvin Gaye song came out, the Library of Congress only accepted a notated version of a musical work (a lead sheet, published sheet music, musical score, etc.) as a deposit, so the sheet music is likely what the Library of Congress has on file for that work. I'm guessing that was a factor in the judge instructing the jury to consider the elements of the sheet music only. Much later on, the L of C started accepting audio recordings as deposits, which is probably what the "Blurred Lines" creators submitted.

Either way, the issue is what exactly the copyright protection covers. For a pop song, it's generally agreed that at a minimum the melody is covered as well as the lyrics, if there are lyrics. Beyond that, things can be subject to interpretation.

The harmonic progression - which may include, for example, the bass line - is usually considered as within the coverage when used in conjunction with the melody and lyrics, since a melody generally has to be supported by some harmonic underpinnngs -- but it is not generally considered covered as a separate entity of its own. (Otherwise three-chord rock songs like "Louie Louie", "Get Off My Cloud", "Hang On Sloopy", even "Summer Nights" from Grease would all be infringing each other since they have the same basic harmonic pattern.)

Nothing is cut and dried though, and that is why these situations get litigated (or, more often, settlements are finessed outside of court). I'm surprised this one went this far. I think you're probably right that sentiment toward the Gaye estate influenced the verdict. But I just don't feel there's any infringement of the actual material that would be covered by the Marvin Gaye copyright. The newer song is suggestive of the older one in its way, but that's as far as it goes.


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kingfish 18107 desperate attention whore postings
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03-12-15, 08:42 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
Thanks BR, that does clear up my muddlement. I learned something here, no sarcasm intended.

So the comparison was between a notated version of the song and an audio recording.

A very tough comparison to make, I would think, seeing as how few jury members could probably sight read the music expertly enough to make that kind of comparison. It seems to me to be pretty impossible, in fact, to do that and come to the decision that they did since both sides would inevitably present different interpretations of the melodic side of Gaye's song.

This precedent is going to make a lot of music industry lawyer rich. Richer.

Aside: I had a friend who when inebriated would always bring out his guitar and bang out "G.L.O.R.I.A Gloria". It was another three chord progression, but I swear, I think he only used one. We, also being inebriated, would sing it at the top of our lungs.

Dam fine music back then.

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Brownroach 15092 desperate attention whore postings
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03-12-15, 10:57 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
LAST EDITED ON 03-12-15 AT 11:13 PM (EST)

So the comparison was between a notated version of the song and an audio recording.

As I understand it they were looking strictly at the sheet music for both songs -- "Blurred Lines" was eventually published in sheet music form even if the LOC deposit was the recording (you can buy sheet music for both songs online).

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personofinterest 187 desperate attention whore postings
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03-11-15, 02:44 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
The Sam Smith camp had to include others with his hit "Stay With Me" recently. I don't even remember the details but do remember thinking "huh, I would never have come up with that similarity."

Our university encourages the use of a plagarism tool online for papers. Then you have to talk some good students off the ledge when their scores come back and the problem areas are commonly used phrases, etc!

And what is with artists wanting to copyright certain phrases that I have heard repeatedly way before their time!

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03-12-15, 00:31 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Worst. Copyright Infringement. Decision. Ever."
LAST EDITED ON 03-12-15 AT 00:32 AM (EST)

The Sam Smith/Tom Petty agreement seems fair to me. The melodic phrase is exactly the same, with the same rhythm and the same chords underneath, and in both songs it's used for the title lyric, so it's the hook that you remember. And the Tom Petty song was a Top 12 hit, so it's not exactly obscure, it did get radio play (though I personally didn't remember it).

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03-12-15, 01:54 PM (EST)
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34. "Case summary"
http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/know-your-7-4-million-beef-robin-thicke-pharrell-and-blurred-lines-vs-the-estate-of-marvin-gaye/

So if I'm interpreting this correctly, Thicke basically lost because the jury took one look at him and collectively thought Someone has to hurt this jerk.

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03-12-15, 03:34 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Case summary"
*poke*

You've been missed around here.

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36. "RE: Case summary"
Very much so.
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03-12-15, 10:42 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Case summary"
The Thicke/Pharrell team apparently did handle the whole affair jawdroppingly badly. I thought that by reviewing the sheet music alone, it would be so clear that the copyrightable elements of the songs are not the same, whereas using the recordings would have been more likely to push the jury in Gaye's direction. But, they blew it anyway.
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