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"S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11"
Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-02-10, 08:28 PM (EST)
 
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"S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
I figured I'd get this up quickly to start working on my Summary. The previews during the Sunday football games more than suggested the inevitability of the quitters making the remainder of this season easily predictable. Personally I'm not that disheartened because this season ranks in my bottom five seasons of all time anyway.I've been saying for over a month, Flipper Jane and Flipper Holly darn near assured an under-30 winner this season. And the way I see it now, hard to imagine anything other than a Chase-Fabio-Sash F3. An IC run by Benry would be the only chance of somene else winning their way into the Finals, but Fabio and Chase are no challenge sloutches, so that's a longshot at best. BENRY - Thinking about writing my Summary for this episode, when it became obvious that NaOnka and Kelly were going to walk, I thought of a title, "Winners never quit; Quitters never win." Fifteen minutes LATER Benry remarkably utters those same exact words at TC, making him my #1 for this week. Being the MVP of the RC (the only challenge this episode) solidifies that ranking. FABIO - I could see the final vote coming down between Chase and Fabio. Whereas Chase already has a few votes in the bag, if it comes down to FTC performance--advantage Fabio. Why? If Chase comes off as an idiot, he'll lose votes. If Fabio comes off as an idiot, he'll be endeared by the Jury. CHASE - He should borrow the line from Matt and say "why dig for idols when players will hand them over to you." Is NaOnka giving Chase the HII a prelude to giving him a vote in the Finals? If so, that's three votes for Chase already (assuming Holly & Jane.) If he doesn't pull an "Amanda" at FTC, he's got a great shot at the million. HOLLY - Her maternal instincts and "denmother role" with the castaways will get her more Christmas cards this year...but does anyone really want to sit next to "mom" in the Finals? Hence I do not see her advancing much further. JANE - She's pretty much the only shot of preventing an all-male Final; but I doubt grandma will be able to pull out the necessary IC wins to accomplish that feat. I did catch the last 20 minutes or so of last week's recrap and got a kick of Jill's reference to Jane as "Survivor MacGyver." I might have to put that a tad higher than "Fabio" as my favorite nickame this season. MATT - I'm trying to think of a player who was in a more comatose state for an ENTIRE episode as Matt was this episode. It must be demoralizing being the frontman of the most powerful alliance in the game and then watching it self-destruct. I've been saying Matt's savvy gameplay would allow him to bounce back, but now I'm reconsidering. Although having three 40+ players still in the game and a HII in his pocket should facilitate his advancement. DAN - "No effort but still gets the reward." Golly Gee Jeff, it took you 28 days to figure that out??? Dan better be praying for a silly House of Cards building competition or some ridiculous Chuck-E-Cheese arcade game for a F4 IC.
QUITTERS
NAONKA - The absurd comparisons between Russell and NaOnka are now put to rest. He would have NEVER quit...and spare us the rubbish about Russell's fat cells and body hair. NaOnka's legacy as a person will be that of a despicable human being. And her legacy as a player will be that of a quitter. A sad but truthful double whammy. KELLY - I want to say she's the worst casting decision ever...and she may be. But that's like trying to decide on the worst criminal to be ever sent to Alcatraz; or the worst serial killer on file. I'm sure one could be selected, but what's the use when so many were bad. Obviously I'm not comparing Kelly to a criminal...just using the decision-making process as an analogy. A sad but true refection on casting/production. She was told she'd probably face tougher challenges in life. Ya think? I dunno, Iltarion...that trophy executive wife option is sounding more and more like an inevitable destiny for the Purple One.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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12-02-10, 11:33 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
I assure you the list of castaways "convinced they would have won the game" is WAY long and extends FAR beyond the illusions of just Russell and NaOnka.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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12-03-10, 05:02 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
I have one for you- Rob M in All Stars. Of course, I don't think he really cared that much if he got the million or not, as he said, "or worst case scenario, we'll be spending hers."Kind of unfair to compare Nay's delusions of winning to Russell's considering Russell had made it to the end against two non-players. Somewhat understandable he would feel some confidence. Nay declaring she could win with 9 people still in the game is a different kind of delusion altogether. Russell and Nay used some similar tactics, but the ultimate difference is that Russell wanted to be the greatest player of all time and obviously believed he could be. Being a villian was just what he believed to be the best way to play the game. Nay just wanted to be a villian, period. She never claimed to be a great player nor to want to be perceived as one. I didn't watch all of this last episode. Afterall, why bother? I was totally disinterested in an episode serving Nay's self-indulgence. So, that being said, here is my list.
1. Everyone still playing
Deserving members of Loser's Lodge-
Alina
Marty
Brenda Non-deserving members of Loser's Lodge (should be out on their @ss instead)- Kelly- completely inconsequential- "Bender, you don't even count. If you didn't show up, no one would care." - I'm not going to say she is among the worst casted since she was something to look at during a season that SERIOUSLY needed it. Na'Onka- Let's see. How a DAW can become a Survivor villian- 1) Pick on disabled member of cast. Check
2) Steal food and lie about it. Check
3) Betray closest friend. Check
4) Chose yourself over tribe. Check
5) Quit game. Check Pretty much covered all bases. Very good. Not the first sociopath to play the game nor will she be the last. Considering the heavy edit she got, expect more of her ilk. It irritated me how JP practically begged these two to stay. They should have both been gone, before the reward. Both being allowed to stay as members of the jury is a debacle.
>
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-03-10, 06:50 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-03-10 AT 07:01 PM (EST)>"Russell and Nay used
>some similar tactics..." That's what I'm talking about! "...Russell wanted to be the
>greatest player of all time and
>obviously believed he could be.
>Being a villian was just what
>he believed to be the best way
>to play the game.
>Nay just wanted to be a villian,
>period." Darn! I was so close to converting you into seeing that RussHole was worse than Nay. If it is strategy that differentiates them, then I must say you are forgetting these confessionals by Nay: - “In order to win this game, you must make power moves. You can make a move that can shift the game in a whole new direction. If you make a power move, that’s a move that can push you forward. If you keep on making power moves, everything is going to fall in line.” “Brenda, she’s like my best friend out here but did I come all this way from South Central LA to come back home with nothing? This is a game and Brenda is a threat. So, right now that we have everybody against her, now is the time to get her out.” These show that Nay wasn't playing to be a villain but playing to win, doing power moves just like RussHole. She just didn't repeat it 20millions times (I counted) like RussHole. And RussHole didn't wait for the F3 to think he had it made: Don't you remember one of his very first confessionals: "I'm here to show that winning this game is easy." From the start he believed he had it won. By F9 (ie after Laura's elimination) I'm sure he saw no one in his way.
As for Boston Rob, don't sell him short. He did have a good chance of winning, getting 3 votes out of 7. If only he hadn't made that useless promise to Alicia, who knows. Russell had 2 out of 9 the first time, 0 out of 9 the second!!!!
And Colonel, Stephenie knew she wasn't beating Danni. That's why she couldn't understand why Rafe wasn't voting her out at F4. Steph thought the only person she could beat was Rafe because, as she stupidly said: "We played the same game." As for Matt, I think you are being unfair to the cweep. The guy had no idea how the game worked when he started. He learned on the go from Rob and he was thanking his lucky stars to be facing the brat. I'm sure he wasn't thinking he had played a great game and would beat anyone hands down.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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12-03-10, 10:27 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
At least Thailand had a fun player to watch in Brian. This season has . .? Fabio and Jane are interesting. Na-Onka was at times a fascinating train wreck.1. Fabio: Personally hope he wins. Why not? 2. Jane: Why not? 3. Dan: Because he looks funny in a giant chair. 4. Holly: Could she have given a longer speech taking credit for giving up a non-nutritious lunch that would likely have left her throwing it up and a chance to watch what looks to be a really bad idea for a movie remake. But then I'm not there. 5. Sash: Swing vote destined to take out Jane and Holly? Why not? 6. Benry: Why? 7. Chase: Why ask why?
Think Jeff and company showed Na-Onka and Kelly why you don't quit survivor. They control hours of film and can choose how they will make you look. Na-Onka like the worst person in the world and Kelly invisible except when she's crying or making goofball statements like having sucked it up for 20+ days and having nothing left to suck up.
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Estee 55194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 06:49 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Yeah..." |
Look, if you put the ball on a tee and walk away, someone's gonna hit it. 
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-10, 09:41 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-04-10 AT 09:47 AM (EST)Agree Galu had serious divisions that would have eventually split them up but Russell took advantage of immunity idols and those divisions to bring Galu down before his own tribe was reduced to one or two swing votes. Left his alliance in control of the game. Perhaps Russell could have allied with Boston Rob at the start of the season, but he would have been taking orders from Rob, not the other way around. Russell's whole game was built around being the leader of an alliance. And he would have had no alliance if he had waited for Rob's alliance to take out Parvati, and perhaps Danielle afterwards. Instead he talked Tyson into voting himself out of the game and played on Gerri's and Coach's confusion to get their votes. Sure there was some luck after the merge but Russell, and Parvati, were smart enough to take full advantage of it. While Parvati might have had no chance to win the million because of her alliance with Russell, she wouldn't have made merge without him.
Holly was disaffected when the switch occurred. Not a surprise she switched sides. Not saying Na-Onka wasn't an effective alliance member early on, but most of what earned her screen time was random acts of craziness like hiding the flower and stealing Fabio's socks. In the end she weakened, not strengthened, her alliance.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 01:35 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
"Russell took advantage of immunity idols..."You mean the idols that Burnett stuffed in his pockets! (That's mostly for Aruba!) Call me a purist but I don't see playing idols as the mark of a great strategist. Needing to use it underlines the fact that you put yourself in a bad position beforehand. "Russell's whole game was built around being the leader of an alliance." Exactly why he isn't a good player. Game Theory tells us that a good player should know when to lead and when to follow. Earl, Danni, Tina, Todd and Chris mastered both aspects of the game. Let Rob lead and take him down when you van gain control of the game, not depend on luck like Russell did at the merge. "Holly was disaffected when the switch occurred. Not a surprise she switched sides." Holly was on the outside with Marty and Jill but she had nothing against Danny, Yve and Tyrone. If Alina had realized that Na'Onka was still gunning for her she could have easily flipped to Holly and given the older tribe the advantage. Seeing how Alina was still thinking Nay was her friend when Nay showed her the hidden food proves how successful Nay had been at deceiving Alina. That's the key to Survivor: Make all the others think you are with them when you are really with no one. Nay certainly didn't do that with KB or Fabio but she managed to do it when it counted most.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-10, 03:13 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
NaOnka really lucked out a few times during the game. By all rights she should have been the first booted from La Flor, the bus was heading squarely for her. Alina and Kelly B. changed the course by trying to take out Brenda, Shannon didn't even try to get them on board with a slam dunk NaOnka boot, all three of them suffered for that mistake. Later still Brenda allowed NaOnka to have the HII when she should have taken possession of it herself. Not that having to play an HII is a great thing but having it, keeping it from others, is a no-brainer.In New Espada NaOnka could easily have been blindsided, and she created a ready-made reason for it by pulling the quit drama. Even without knowing she had the HII they could have blindsided her, they only had to keep it from Chase and coax him with their reasons afterwards. Much as I do despise Russell, he at least had a sound strategy for his bullying game, and he knew when he burned socks and hid machetes and so on that he would be at risk if he was found out. NaOnka, in comparison, went on a terrorist campaign, openly stole Jud's socks (after she had accidently ruined her own), wanted credit for her terrorist actions, wanted everyone in fear of NaOnka. Thought nothing of assaulting Kelly B., fear as a tactic. And, really, that was pushing the rules of Survivor, assault is not generally allowed, she only got away with it because production inadvertently created the situation under which it occurred with the placement of the HII clue. She was even able to use her camp theft to her play into her game, though that wasn't thought out in advance. Russell would never have gone to the extreme of taking away so much of the food and supplies because it would have caused too much trouble and he would have been in too much danger of being found out, but for NaOnka's terrorist campaign being found out was not a bad thing. She would have lost the game had she not quit even had she gotten to final, I'd have been surprised had she gotten even two votes as Russell did his first time around. She'll never admit it, of course, but I think that's really why she quit, so she could maintain the delusion she would have won and the world should cower and fear NaOnka. But screw that. Ultimately it is a game, a television show, she isn't worth hating. I hope she grows up some day and realizes how horrible she's been, but she's really not worth the effort and energy of hatred.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 05:58 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
Nice intervention Dabo. Let me analyze your arguments and show that they reinforce the Nay/Russell parallels:>NaOnka really lucked out a few
>times during the game.
>By all rights she should
>have been the first booted
>from La Flor, Russell really lucked out that the other Villains didn't know him except Parvati. By all rights he would have been the first booted from the Villains' tribe. At least Nay depended on her own actions to save herself. >In New Espada NaOnka could easily
>have been blindsided, and she
>created a ready-made reason for
>it by pulling the quit
>drama. In Yin Yang, Russhole could easily have been blindsided and he created a ready-made reason for it by pulling the women's alliance drama. All the Heroes had to do was believe Sandra.
>Much as I do despise Russell,
>he at least had a
>sound strategy for his bullying
>game,
Sound strategy implies you are playing to win. Russell never had a chance. Neither did Nay who probably thought Russell didn't do enough scare tactics to win! That's why she pushed the envelop further. >But screw that. Ultimately it
>is a game, a television
>show, she isn't worth hating.
> I hope she grows
>up some day and realizes
>how horrible she's been, but
>she's really not worth the
>effort and energy of hatred. That, I completely agree with, It has been my point all along. Russhole on the other hand is responsible for this mess so I do feel he deserves hatred. He changed for the worst how people play and view Survivor.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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12-06-10, 04:05 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
I don't hate either of them, actually. It isn't as if they killed anyone. Hate the way they played the game, and both had a fundamentally flawed view of the game itself. And both seem to be pretty despicable people. Russell may be the slightly better player, he may also be the slightly more despicable person, certainly the worst example of a poor sport we could ever expect to see.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 06:22 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
>The idols were there for anyone
>to find. Doubt they
>were passing secret clues to
>Russell telling him where they
>were. Although true on the surface, there was a difference between Russell and the others: He decided to start looking before receiving a clue AND he told production he'd do it. The help came from the fact that the idols COULD be found without clues. I'm almost sure someone somewhere said: "It would be great TV to have this idiot find an idol just like that". Take this season's idols: No one could have found them without clues. That is true for most seasons except the one were the creep announced he would start looking. If that isn't help what is? Also, for the idol hidden under the bridge, the idol was placed there while the ones receiving the clue were having the reward. Russel was the only one who could look for it and it was placed in the most obvious place. Also, you have
>to know how to play
>them. How many
>players have wasted them in
>one way or another? How many idols did Russell waste himself? Thing is, he had them coming out of his ass! Notice that Sandra didn't waste hers, didn't even need it. That's the way to do it.
>Don't see how you can
>say Russell put his tribe
>in a bad position. With water in his canteen, Mike doesn't suffer from the dehydration that nearly killed him and cost Foa Foa 2 players at 1 council. Isn't that proving that he hurt his team? Also, he was the only one that could have reasoned with Ben, calmed him down. Insted, Russell encouraged the "outlaw", found it to his advantage. Losing Ben's muscles finished off Foa Foa's chances
>Matter of opinion as to what
>makes a good player.
>Some very good players like
>Tom, Boston Rob, Yul and
>Ami might not have the
>temperament to ever be followers; Game Theory isn't an opinion, it is a well established way to behave in non-cooperative game situations. Did you see what happened to Rob and Tom when they didn't have sheep following them? Ami actually was able to follow. She followed Jonathan first and later Ozzy. It's the perception that she was a leader that did her in.
>Would they have
>been able to take Rob
>down after they had control
>of the game? Russell was gaining Coach's trust and, trough him, Jerri, Tyson and Courtney would have followed. Sandra wanted to cut Rob's throat also so Russell had many other ways to go.
>Agree Na-Onka helped her alliance for
>much of the game.
>She may have even intimidated
>people like Fabio, Kelly and
>Alina and kept them on
>the defensive. But she
>sure hurt her alliance at
>the end. At some
>point you have to look
>at results. Russell had
>no shot at winning but
>he sure gave the winner
>of Samoa a great shot
>at it and he kept
>Parvati in the game (and
>let Sandra remain in it)
>long enough to make the
>final. Na-Onka's helped turn
>Sash from the most powerful
>player in this season into
>a likely swing vote.
>And she helped do it
>by quitting; something Russell certainly
>never did.
I'm not sure what to make of this except to say that there are no assists in Survivor. RussHole gets no credit for helping Natalie win because that certainly wasn't his intent. If Nay quitting hurt anyone it his their fault for relying on her. She didn't owe them anything.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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12-05-10, 09:55 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
You could also say he took the initiative to look before other players did. Again, you're still assuming Foa Foa wins enough immunities to have a numbers advantage, rather than disadvantage, at merge. Game theory might not be an opinion, but effectiveness at playing survivor is. About the only objective way to measure is how far they go and how far they take their allies. He should as Natalie's chances of making final TC without him weren't nearly as good. Sounds like you're saying it serves Na-Onka's allies right for allying with her in the first place? How does this make her an effective player then? She hurt herself by quitting and she hurt anyone who allied with her by quitting as well? More than wipes out anything she did earlier in the game to help herself or her allies, unless Chase using the idol he gave her to win.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-05-10, 01:29 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-05-10 AT 04:15 PM (EST)Yes, he took the initiative but he told production that he would. If the idols had been buried underground 10 paces away from a landmark rather than in plain sight, he'd have no chance of finding them no matter how hard he looked. Did you see the tree where the first idol was hidden? It almost had a neon sign on it, saying "Look Here!" Due to production help (letting them off the hook after Swan was medevaced and merging for the first time at 12 instead of 10) Foa Foa needed really only 1 immunity win to merge at 7-5. If that had happened then I'd give Russell credit for overturning Galu. All he'd need was Shambutch flipping and his idol. Merging at 8-4, Galu killed Galu, not Russell. Think about it: Merging Galu at 8 was an invitation for it to crumble. 8 is simply too large an alliance. Natalie had the line of the season when, after suggesting they eliminate Eric, she told Laura: "You have so many." Laura falling for it was like opening Pandora's box.
You may have missed some parts of the "Na'Onka was Russell's daughter" discussion. My point is that Na'Onka was inspired by Russell's "success", played a lot like him. I have a lot of fun seeing how he was voted Fan Favorite while she is almost universally hated for doing very similar things. Russell played proactively, Na'Onka was a bitch. Double standard?
Anyway, I certainly see that she was effective in getting foolish people to align with her. That's what SHE needed to accomplish. Without allies, she goes first. She didn't. What others decided is irrelevant. They shouldn't have aligned with such an unstable person but they did. Good for her, bad for them. Survivor isn't a team sport. I don't think Russell's way of playing Survivor is smart despite his claims and what his fans say. You wrote that Nay didn't help her alliance, I pointed to two instances where she did. Do I think she was effective? In the end, certainly not, but neither was Russell because he could never win. The players who were smart enough to use him were effective. (Note that Natalie was ready to jump ship and join Laura, Monica, Kelly and Brett if Russell hadn't been given that second idol. Would she have made F4 with them? We'll never know but she was prepared in case Russell was leaving.)
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-10, 05:53 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
RussHole called everyone Dumbasses, zombies, puppets, he showed that he was a misogynist, a racist and the poorest loser in history but instead of being disliked he was voted fan favorite...twice!!! Incredible."most winners are members of successful alliances who find ways to eliminate rival alliances." Most, yes but individuals have often won: Vecepia, Jenna, Sandra (twice), Chris, Danni, Bob and JT all won despite seeing their alliances outnumbered or even being completely on their own. Add Natalie and that's 8 out of 20. Not bad at all.
"Russell's game seemed based on building and maintaining a strong alliance..." That is so wrong. Russell's game was based on surrounding himself with weaklings and puppets. All his sabotages and mind games were designed to weaken his alliance, make them follow him. The Villains had a numbers advantage because of Boston Rob. As soon as Russell took over, they lost their numbers. "Russell did talk Tyson into changing his vote" Not if we believe Tyson. He said he talked himself into making that stupid move. I give Tyson more credit than that: I think production convinced him it would be smart to vote Parvati and gain Russell as an ally. "Rocket John's difficult position within Galu" John's difficult position within Galu was TOTALLY due to John and Eric's own stupidity. Electing Shambutch as leader showed the women that they weren't part of the Galu alliance. Deciding to go after Monica at the merge opened the flood gates. Then he wanted to align with RussHole because he figured he could win against that perfect goat. I know Na'ONka was shown as emotionally unstable, I do not contest that, but I also know that she was part of the deciding alliance. She was in a very good position to make it to the end. That's not surprising when everyone sees you as the winning lottery ticket, the goat, the RussHole of this season.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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12-06-10, 07:59 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-06-10 AT 08:31 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 12-06-10 AT 08:30 AM (EST) Don't think Natalie was a weakling or a puppet though a number of people have suggested it. Same with Jaison and Mick, though they might not have been good players. Jaison was certainly articulate enough when he wanted to be and never seemed intimidated by Russell. And Sandra, and at times Parvati, weren't weaklings or puppets. Agree Russell was very divisive for the audience. If they had had an audience vote for fans least favorite he might also have won that. Think even many of the people who voted for him didn't much care for him as a person and that he was an acquired taste to many who ended up liking him. You make it to the end you have a chance to grow on people. Na-Onka had a couple of episodes where she looked better. The fact she quit doubtless convinced Probst etc. to show her in the worst light. No argument that a number of Russell's allies stayed with him because they were sure they could beat him. The Sash/Brenda alliance was the deciding alliance. Not any more thanks in part to Na-Onka.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-06-10, 07:13 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
Gary, it isn't what we think that matters, it's what the players think. Russell saw Natalie as a weak woman who couldn't do anything. Even when she assured him she had flipped Galu into voting Erik, he was convinced they had played tricks on her weak mind so he wasted an idol. Russell called Jaison whiny, weak and lazy. Everyone saw how weak a leader Mick had been. Feckless Shambutch called him and that was the one time I agreed with her. Look at who Russell eliminated, Marisa, the one he called the strongest, Betsy, the dangerous one and Elizabeth, the one that proved she was strong. While others wanted to eliminate Ashley because she was weak in challenges, Russell first went after her when she targeted Ben, showing she had a mind of her own. He'd have done the same to Jaison but he needed him...until F5 when Jaison paid for his crime of lèse-majesté. Note also that, at first, he hated Shambutch and tried to align with Laura but when he saw how strong-minded Laura was, he didn't want anything to do with her. Dumb soldier Shambutch was much more used to following orders. In the Villains' tribe, Russell didn't have it so easy because of Rob's presence but he certainly didn't see much strength in Sandra and he perceived her threat-level as negligeable. Your second paragraph is a tribute to the power of editing. If you look beyond the edit, you would have realized that Russell was seen as a clown by almost everyone in Samoa while Na'Onka was liked by some. I enjoyed Russell's antics during Samoa but would never have voted for him as best player or even simply as my favorite. Then his behavior during the reunion show really bothered me. It was so horrible that I cannot believe anyone still liked him during HvV. But seeing how Na'Onka's weekly edit made her jump in some rankings amused me.
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garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings
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12-07-10, 07:42 AM (EST)
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44. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
Agree editing makes a big difference in how you are portrayed on survivor. And quitting guaranteed an unfriendly edit for Na-Onka and Kelly.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-10, 09:04 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
My unofficial guess of the number of castaways who've played Survivor is probably over 350. Let's face it; the timid, meek, shy, and those with inferiority complexes would not even APPLY nevermind be selected to play Survivor. That being said, most are DAWs who think the world of themselves. Some may go so far to use adjectives like egotistic, vain, or conceited.So it should go without saying that most with overinflated opinions of themselves truly believe they are most deserving of sole Survivor and the million dollars. Anyone who watches Survivor with any sort of regularity and does NOT see it that way is completely and totally naive. Do I have an exact number for you? Sorry, I don't. But I'll stake my life that it's a hellava lot more than two. Although I consider myself a big fan of the game, I'm not as fixated on post game interviews as other diehards. I also generally do not engage in "Nostradamus Studies" and listen to backpeddling from players after the fact, or their meager attempts of self-preservation AFTER they whine about bad editing. Therefore I may lack the concrete examples you covet, but you did issue a "dare" so here are a couple I recall off the top of my head: Both of these players were crushed during the "coconut chop" RC where players have to answer questions about each other. They received the most votes in the negative categories. COURTNEY (Exile Island) - The player everyone saw as the perfect goat and dream F2 partner. She knew she was unanimously voted "most annoying" in the RC. Yet when explained why she was voted out and that Terry seriously considered taking her to the end, her dilussional reply was, I'd have beated Terry...they were scared of me because I would have beaten anyone in the Finals. LMAO JENNA LEWIS (S8 - the season they had the audacity to call "all-stars") - In a similiar coconut chop RC that season, Jenna knew she received the most votes in some negative category. On the Reunion Show she continued to whine about not losing the final IC to Rob. She went so far to believe she would have beaten Rob in the Finals. Jeff conducted his patented "straw poll" confirming Rob would have beaten Jenna if it came to that. Jenna STILL acknowledged SHE would have beaten him because she would have had a better FTC than Rob. LOL...whatever Jenna. Now I'm sure you'll do your best to spin these examples so I will not engage in a silly back-and-forth banter here. But I will stick to my original claim that MANY players truly THINK they were most deserving of the million dollars (even though in reality we can justify they were not.)
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 02:14 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
First of all, I was not talking about what they think prior to the season starting or on Day 1. Nay still believed she would win on day 28. That's RussHole-type delusion. Did you not hear Russell telling Natalie she wouldn't get a single vote? That's not mere misunderstanding of the jury, that's total blindness just like Nay showed. If you want to add JLew and Courtney Marit to the little group of Russell's daughters, be my guest. It doesn't improve his standing in my eyes. But I don't agree with you. JLew had a shot and Courtney had reason to think she could beat Terry: I asked for two because I knew you'd come up with Courtney Marit but you have it wrong. She mentioned she could beat Terry because Casaya had made a pact that they would vote for ANY Casaya member facing Terry if Terry won his way to the final tribal council. They didn't believe that Survivor was simply Outplaying and that's a valid point. That's why Danielle hesitated between Terry and Aras. That's why Aras had to tell her that he and Cirie would vote against her if she CHOSE Terry. Since Casaya had the numbers advantage on the jury, Courtney would have won if they had held their word. Of course, her delusion was in believing them, but that's not the same as believing yourself to be the best. I do not recall the quote you attribute to Courtney: "I would have beaten anyone in the Finals." Are you sure it's accurate? As for JLew, she would have had at least 2 votes against Rob: Lex, and Alicia. That's not delusion, that's a good base. Rupert and Shii Ann aren't sure to vote for Rob and Big Tom hated both Rob and JLew so no one knows how he would have voted. Straw polls are completely meaningless, this one in particular. Don't forget that there was talk that All-Star would determine the best Survivor ever. That partly helped Amber win because the jurors knew Lamber couldn't be considered the best ever. If she isn't the best ever then they still can claim that title! Rob winning would have seen him crowned "Best-Ever" by Jeff at the reunion. Lex and Tom wouldn't have liked that at all so they could have promoted the idea of voting JLew.
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-04-10, 05:07 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
But Russell is the greatest player of all time. A bald guy in a fedora just told me that.One thing for sure, he would love that people are still determined to talk endlessly about him. Forget harsh conditions, the only thing that would have ever made Russell quit is taking the cameras away.
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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12-05-10, 10:05 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
This is precisely why I don't like giving actual examples to you because you get fixated on exact verbiage and wave your PhD in Spinology.When Courtney was being questioned she was responding to the fact that other players that season wanted her as a goat and to take her to the Finals. The two players most vocal with that strategy were Terry and Shane. It's hard to open up Courtney's skull and try to guess what she means or thinks (as if anyone would really want to,) but when she made her I can beat anyone claim perhaps it was in reference to those who specifically stated they wanted to take her to the Finals??? It was determined that Terry would have beaten Danielle or Aras in the Finals..so you think Courtney had a shot? Oh that's right..."only if they held their word???" You've GOT to be kidding..."holding their word?" LOL LOL LOL Whereas I can see one's point in saying the straw polls are not absoluely Gospel, I wouldn't go so far to say they are "meaningless"...but I suppose they would be "meaningless" when the poll verifies MY point that you so hotly contest. I've stated before, I'll state again now, and I'll continue to state that the average castaway is so full of themselves that they think they were worthy of Sole Survivor and should have won. If you are unable to grasp that obvious concept, Im pretty much done with THIS debate (but certainly looking forward to future ones as I'm sure there'll be.)
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-10, 01:44 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
LAST EDITED ON 12-05-10 AT 01:44 PM (EST)Where I spin, you twist! I never said Courtney had a shot. I said that Aras, Cirie, Shane, Bruce, Danielle and Courtney made a pact: "If Terry wins his way to the Final 2 then we vote for the Casaya member that sits next to him." That's what Courtney was counting on. BTW, I still haven't found that quote you attribute to Courtney that she could beat anyone. I think it's part of your twist again! Sure, all the players believe they are worthy of winning Survivor but how many had the nerve to say it out loud? I'm not talking about inner pride, I'm talking about total blindness. No one was as blindly sure of themselves as Russell. Na'Onka is the one that came closest! That's the parallel. Didn't you see Jeff's face? I know you did, you said it was like when Billy said he found love in Candice during Cook Islands' second tribal council. But, like I said, if you want Courtney to join that select group, be my guest. Are you really helping your case for Russell's greatness?
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-04-10, 02:59 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
Worst episode ever. But they made it easy for me this week.1. Benry. Didn't quit. 1. Chase. Didn't quit. 1. Dan. Didn't quit. 1. Holly. Didn't quit. 1. Jane. Didn't quit. 1. Jud. Didn't quit. 1. Sash. Didn't quit. Good-bye Purple Kelly. I think they did her a favor by giving her an invisible edit, she's somewhat ditsy. Good riddance NaOnka. I think they did the rest of us a favor by not giving her the invisible edit, we'll know to run like hell if we ever see her coming down the street, lock up the goodies, hide the children, warn the helpless.
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Toban 110 desperate attention whore postings
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12-04-10, 05:58 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
1. Holly: I'm not sure that forfeiting the reward did her any favours in the game but it was still a nice gesture. Her pep-talk to Purple Kelly was genuine when really, it may be in her interest to have her gone. I'd like to see her win but sadly, I don't think it's gonna happen.2. Fabio: He's in a great position now with both Chase and Benry being seem as bigger challenge threats. 3. Chase: A genuinely nice guy. I don't think he's as dumb as some others make him out to be. 4. Sash: He's more pleasant as an underdog. I'd like to see him in the finals. He may actually have a shot at winning, albeit at outside one. 5. Dan: Meh. But at least he's putting in an effort. 6. Jane: Great survivor skills. Great physical effort. I still think she's an idiot and a bit of a shrew. 7. Benry: A tool without a strategy. While his comments about PK and NaOnka were somewhat warranted, has this guy actually had a positive thing to say about anyone. Quitters:
Purple Kelly: Would not likely have received much more airtime had she not been a quitter. She's a total ditz. NaOnka: Ugly human being
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-10, 03:59 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
After all this talk, I guess I should put up my list!1- Fabio: Will his happy place include the seat closest to Jeff at the reunion? If so, he will prove a contrario that it is easy to win this game, you just don't have to be a creep to do it. 2- Chase: He should have been on the outs after being so close to Brenda but he's managed to stay in the key alliance. That's knowing how to position yourself. His loyalty is being rewarded. 3- Sash: How did he finagle his way with Holly and Jane? They've given him a lot of power. I just don't like the fact that we've never gotten to know Sash. All we hear is about his strategy. 4- Jane: I think a little more compassion and a little less lecturing could have been better during TC but winning jury votes shouldn't be her main problem. Getting there will be. 5- Holly: Her speaches and confessionals sounded very preacher-like to me. She didn't quit on day 5. Big deal! It doesn't make her a survivor expert. 6- Dan: No effort, all the reward? I certainly hope not. But how come he isn't in tight with Holly and Jane instead of Sash? He must have been sleeping when that alliance formed. 7- Benry: People placing him high on their list are forgetting something: Alina, Brenda, Na'Onka and Kelly were HIS targets yet he's STILL an outsider, STILL a target. How can someone be so clueless at positioning? He's the Anti-Chase in every way imaginable. OH! I forgot. He's good at carrying Gulliver over an obstacle course and he knows how to utter meaningless clichés! What a player!! Gone - Na'Onka: Unbelievable that she thought she could win and didn't owe anyone an apology. The most self-centered, "the-whole-world-revolves-around-my-belly-button" player since you know who! Kelly: I think her confessional at the start of this episode was very intelligent: "Having Na’Onka, Sash and Chase turn on me put me at the bottom of the totem pole of any alliance I would be a part of.” That and not being the only one to quit explains her decision. Why stay if you don't have a shot? To offer viewers more bikini shots? 
Ils sont fous, ces Romains!
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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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12-05-10, 11:45 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
"Why stay if you don't have a shot?" Good thing your boy Chris and Jenna didn't think that way.
"To offer viewers more bikini shots?"
In short, yes.
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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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12-06-10, 00:30 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
I'm not saying I agreee but that seemed to be part of her thinking.
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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings
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12-06-10, 04:52 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: S21 Love/Loathe List Ep11" |
That's really why she didn't have a shot, she didn't give herself a chance. Her chances of winning were slim and it would have taken some stellar game play for her to have had a shot at winning, she'd have had to get to work to make it happen.
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