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"Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-08, 06:59 AM (EST)
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"Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Well last week I "smelt" Anti-Darwin Snydrome...this week it's pathetically apparent with ALL my senses. If everyone is sick and tired of hearing about it, I'm sorry. Believe me...I'm sick and tired of talking about it. But you can thank the stellar CBS casting crew for that!

1) MATTY (6,6,3,1,4) - Way to step up in the IC. Whether you knew it was your only salvation I'm no sure, but get used to it. It's the only way you'll advance among the weaklings and losers this season.

I'm tempted not to rank anyone else. If Matty goes before F4, I'll stop watching this sorry-a$$ season. But since I probably have little time left anyway, I guess I'll finish what I started.

2) KEN (5,4,4,3,1) - Most likable out of the rest. Probably a guy who got shoved in his locker, pelted with spitballs, and whipped with a wet towel in the locker room back in school. Thanks to the morons who cast this show he finally found his niche on "Survivor". Par for the course in recent seasons.

3) BOB (9,5,5,6,7) - Liked his effort in the IC. If the Kota 4 goes to another TC, this boney old man who resembles that freak who narrated "Tales from the Crypt" back in the 1980s will fall victim to the Anti-Darwin Syndrome. Yes, you read that right. Doesn't say a whole lot for the rest.

4) RANDY (3,2,1,4,5) - Don't these simpletons know if you want to flush out the idol AND remove a certain player from the game it doesn't have to be either/or?
When you knew Sugar had the HII, have everyone (except Sugar and Ace) vote Sugar. Sugar and Ace still vote GC. Make Sugar feel paranoid to play the idol and GC still goes home.
With Dan, he dumped his bag at the 2nd TC, but even if there was still doubt, have four votes for Susie and make Dan paranoid (which wouldn't be too difficult) so he plays the HII (if he had it). Weak useless Susie still goes home.
Haven't these idiots ever heard of "Killing two birds with one stone?!" I just thought Randy was a little sharper.

5) SUGAR (4,3,10,7,2) - Did I see tears in your eyes when you were talking to Matty about Ace's boot? What did I say a couple weeks ago if I see you cry unnecessarially? Yep, down you drop.

6) CORINNE (10,8,6,5,6) - Actually she's in a good position purely by osmosis. Acting like a b!tch does not equate to being a good strategist. Being among the numerously casted weak and ganging up on the few strong is no great feat. And stop bellyaching over the fact that Susie thinks you're weak...this season that's a golden ticket to the F4.

7) CHARLIE (2,9,9,9,8) - No gameplay. He'll coast until he becomes expendable.

8) SUSIE (12,10,8,10,9) - Much like Cirie last season with Yau Man's boot (Hey Michel...isn't that when they Anti-Darwined that real "muscular" player...LOL, sorry couldn't resist! LOL) she became the swing vote totally by circumstance and not through any effort of her own. So why should we be surprised when an inept individual targets a solid player in Survivor?

9) CRYSTAL (1,7,11,12,10) - Let's see...she's miserable, she's a deceitful liar, she's a backstabber, she's pathetic in challenges, and her survival skills suck. So what's with the smug smile walking out of TC? OH yeah, she knows she was perfectly casted for this suck-a$$ season.

BOOTED) MARCUS (7,1,2,2,3) - If this solid player ever heard of the Anti-Darwin Syndrome, no way would this have been a blindside. But other than single-handedly winning the IC, not much he could do about it.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 michel 11-08-08 1
   RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 Jims02 11-08-08 2
       RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 garcor 11-08-08 3
   RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 Aruba 11-08-08 4
       RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 michel 11-09-08 7
           RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 Aruba 11-10-08 13
 RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 iltarion 11-09-08 5
   RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 garcor 11-09-08 6
   RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 michel 11-09-08 8
       RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 iltarion 11-09-08 9
 RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 SpotTheDifference 11-09-08 10
 RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 michel 11-10-08 11
   RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7 iltarion 11-10-08 12

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-08, 11:21 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
"Much like Cirie last season with Yau Man's boot (Hey Michel...isn't that when they Anti-Darwined that real "muscular" player...LOL, sorry couldn't resist! LOL)"

Since you're making it personal I'll answer that you don't even know what happened with Yau Man's boot. This is what wasn't aired:

First, you have to realize that Malakal agreed that their players should alternate going to EI so everyone had a chance at the idol.

Cirie wanted an alliance with Yau Man. To solidify that alliance, she told YM about the idol clues and said he should volunteer to be the next player to go to EI. She told him that she liked the way he had played with Earl and felt they could share the idol the same way.

Now, what did YM do? When time came to decide who would go to EI, YM proposed that Jonathan should go. Cirie realized that YM had given her information to Jonathan and was planning to share the idol with him, not her. Luckily, Ami was the majority's choice to go to EI and YM was booted by his own fault. No syndrome, just stupidity.

And Marcus' boot is more the "too many twists" syndrome than anything else!!!


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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-08, 11:33 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-08 AT 11:36 AM (EST)

And Marcus' boot is more the "too many twists" syndrome than anything else!!!

I agree. This boot was based more on twists and strategy than anything else. Even if they voted Bob instead of Marcus, it could still be considered Anti-Darwin Syndrome. But that's just the way the strategy went down, based on the circumstances. Ken/Crystal/Susie knew they were screwed if the Onion Alliance stayed in power. And Marcus was calling the shots more than Bob was.

This may be going off topic, but I've never had a problem with the "Anti-Darwin Syndrome" because the game tends to even everything out. The physically strong have a huge advantage at the beginning of the game, as they are kept around for the challenges. This makes building alliances easier as well. If they build their alliance with people they can trust (and the numbers go their way), then the merge isn't as much of a problem.

A physically weak person, like Kelly from this season, often doesn't have the luxury of building a strong alliance from the start. When people like that go far in the game, it tends to take a lot of scrambling.


Pooky is the Mole.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-08, 01:44 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-08 AT 01:57 PM (EST)

LAST EDITED ON 11-08-08 AT 01:45PM (EST)

1) Matty - Agree he has been scrambling for some time. Credit for competing hard. Wonder if anything will come of his telling Sugar she was duped by Ken before the Ace vote off.

2) Bob - For his IC performance and as this could be his last week if his team loses another IC.

3) Crystal - Have to give her some credit for acting like a human being (wonder how important that good meal was to her mood) and for helping to talk Susie into flipping (though agree Susie probably would have flipped at the slightest excuse. Even Susie had to see through any promises of final three made by Marcus and if your aim is to go as far as possible in the game - and it should be, wouldn't you think your chances are better with the divided, dysfunctional tribe than with the strong, harmonious tribe where you are the sixth wheel. At least if you can give that divided tribe a numbers advantage. (Should move her down some for another fine challenge performance.)

4) Randy - If the remaining Kota on Fang or Fong or whatever it is called can find a replacement for Marcus they might even benefit from his ouster. He looked like he was going to be tough to beat at final TC. Now R/C/C don't have to look bad trying to remove him. If they find out that Matty had been tight with Ace and that Sugar feels bad for voting against him (by talking up the naive Sugar) they might be able to get them to side with them against Crystal, Ken and Susie after merge.

5) Ken - Not a bad player or person.

6) Sugar - After last week, thought maybe she had known what she was doing all along. Apparently not. Still the single most attractive player in the game to me but kind of lost. Would like to see her hang around as long as possible provided she doesn't actually win.

7) Corinne and Charlie - Still not differentiating between the two. Will have to avoid losing another Kota member at TC if lose an IC before merge. Assuming they know Sugar has the II (doesn't everyone?) figure have to approach Sugar and see if they can keep her from playing it. Course that might get Matty bounced which would be a shame.

9) Susie - She made what was probably the smart vote for her, though her bragging about being a power player got real old. Will likely hang around a little longer while Kota/Fang fight for a decisive number's advantage as she is useful as a vote (giving her a chance to flip again?) but not as much else, though sounds like she works some around camp.


Gone: Marcus - Thought him clearly the strongest player of the season and consider it sad that he was victimized by a producer forced twist (at least in Cook Islands they only offered players the opportunity to switch tribes) designed solely to create interest in a not so exciting season.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-08, 03:06 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Having to rebutt something that "wasn't aired" is like having to disprove a negative. With all due respect that's not worth my time. Let's concentrate on what WAS aired that episode. Cirie voiced her concern more than once about others on that tribe targeting a pathtically weak inept player that episode. Even though she herself wasn't the target, she said something to the effect of where does that leave me?

So as the swing vote purely by circumstance the more solid and easily most popular among the fans is booted compliments of the Anti-Darwin Syndrone.

If there's one thing I dislike (as much as the horrible casting crew's pathetic job) is when players try to back into reasons after the fact and/or blame it on "editing"...Yadda, Yadda, Yadda...Blah, Blah, Blah.

Another perfect example that comes to mind is in China when bubble-headed Jaime plays the fake idol and then says afterwards she "knew" it was fake all along...she just wanted to see JR's reaction. Yeah...Right! One of many examples which are lame attempts of self-preservation. They're getting old and are totally ridiculous.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 02:51 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
So, it's "If I don't know about it, it doesn't exist"!!

BTW: What I wrote came from Cirie AND Yau Man who admitted making a mistake.

And, about what was strictly aired. Parvati and Amanda were smart to offer Cirie Final 3 while Jonathan and Yau Man stupidly refused to give her any guarantee. The smarter players won.

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Aruba 1891 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-08, 07:25 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Now where in the world did I say it "doesn't exist"??? If anything I'll acknowledge that you probably did hear it, but "after-the-fact" sources can be questioned. Especially in light of the fact that you rebutted an accusation of "flimsy conclusions" by stating your involvement in the Spoiler Board.

Let me say I have never been in the Spoiler Boad and I never will. First off I want to find out about it first when watching the episodes. And secondly, if my projections are correct I want to credit my own intuition and problem-solving ability, not some guesswork based on leaks from the show. Even so, I would question its validity. Kinda makes me want to cancel my subscription to the Wall Street Journal and start picking-up the National Enquirer to justify my conclusions in real life.

What's even more disheartening about the Spoiler Board is when leaks may be valid, those same posters go into Fanatics and Bashers and act like smarty-pants throwing around this newfound knowledge. But I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 03:10 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-08 AT 03:30 AM (EST)

The mostly loath list....
Ah, okay, I'm back. Been busy as all hell, but I just went thru every episode marathon-style. And anyway, since I'm back, I see not much has changed: the love list is still here, Aruba is still making Darwin spin in his grave, Michel is still reaching conclusions supported by evidence flimsy enough to make Oliver Stone take a pass, Survivors are still committing all the classic blunders (seems like being disingenuous is the only thing players have improved at), and the crowd in here continues to dwindle as Survivor devolves more and more into the worst part of high school.
Seems like another season lacking truly likable players. I think if you look at the trends close enough, you see it isn't a matter of casting so much as a matter of what the game has become; the days of Tom and Yul are over. This game is now the game of Parvati and Todd.

1. Matty - no one has done Bobby Jon so well since Bobby Jon. Every chip has been stacked against him from the beginning. Heroic effort to single-handedly win the IC and keep himself in the game. I love how the IC was throw-proof. Matty will not likely benefit from his victory beyond a week or two, when indeed anti-Darwinism will claim him, but his win could be the game-changer of the season. Think about it. Bob wins. Matty is voted out. Suzie never flips because it is 6-3 Kota. The Kota 6 walks into the Final 6, and Corinne, Marcus and Charlie walk into the F3.
2. Corinne- Mostly here because her sheer hotness is one of the best things this mediocre season has going for it. (Yeah, her mouth is big enough to make the alligators jealous, but I'm not that picky.) She is a player, an alliance-builder, and pretty good at challenges. I was thinking she had the chance to be one of the best women ever on the show, until she went Lex after Suzie suggested she might vote for her. How dare her? The GALL of that woman! Vote for YOU! God's gift to Survivor! Voting out Dan was a disastrous move that may spell the end of her alliance.
3. Sugar- At the beginning, I thought she was nothing more than a tool. She is still kind of a tool, but she seems nice enough. She deserves some credit for finding Survivor's least secret idol, and among a bunch of fakes, she at least seems genuine. Getting rid of Ace was another Survivor classic blunder: never vote out your closest ally unless it is for the Finals. If you thought Ace was a snake, you should have thought about that before you made your bed. At least Matty let her know it was all a lie, and at least she seemed genuinely upset about it.
4. Randy- Just a flat out mean old cuss who has the lack of giving a rat's a$$ enough to call everyone on his tribe an idiot on national TV. BUT, he plays hard and is somewhat entertaining. The rest can't say the same.
5. Ken- As it turns out, a bigger snake/liar than Ace. No social game, no challenge skills, but lying and manipulating, check. In today's Survivor, that's good enough to make him a better player than most. Sitting in a good position now. Doesn't exactly have the kind of story line to make the end though.
6. Bob- The loyal and hardworking older guy. These are great qualities, but in Survivor, it gets you about as far as Butch and Pascal.
7. Charley - who? If you say so. Extraordinarily ordinary. Apparently wants to be Todd to Corinne's Amanda. Problem: he's no Todd, Corinne's no Amanda.
8. Crystal- Gets called unstable by Kelly and then proves it. Knocks over rice and then throws a fit over Ace and Matty sharing a look. Lying within the game is somewhat forgivable. Using someone outside the game to deceive is not game play. It shows low character. Sorry, those are my funny rules.
9. Suzie- Other than some willingness to work, pretty much another wasted cast member, which seems unavoidable in every Survivor cast. Another classic blunder to allow the floater to gain power. You eliminate the floaters before they sell their vote to the highest bidder.

Booted

1. Sweetie- gone too soon, don't even remember your name.
2. Gillian - the old lady is the archetype second boot, right after the most annoying goes
3. Paloma- little girl with the mouth... tired act
4. Jackie- Victim of the tribal switch and moronic Kelly..sad to see her go
5. GC- Among the biggest losers of Survivor history. Props. Tough strategy: being the leader. Beyond idiotic strategy: being elected the leader and refusing.
6. Kelly- annoying and idiotic... not even great to look at... nothing positive to say
7. Dan- Suzie is more trustworthy than Dan? To quote a famously stupid player- "Stupid players!" Horrendously misplayed by Corinne. She pulls a Parvati and lures Dan into her circle, and she is almost untouchable.
8. Ace- Horrible play by Sugar, who votes out her closest ally after a couple easy lies by Ken. Ace was the main entertaining figure for the first half of the season. Arrogant and overconfident, sure, but a smart guy willing to speak his mind.
9. Marcus- Unfortunate turn of events for a good player. Sounds like he offered everything he could to Suzie. Mistake was not getting rid of her last episode.

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garcor 432 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 02:38 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Agree that the qualities required of winning players appear to have changed; challenge and leadership ability being replaced by adaptability and the kind of social skills that enable a player to make alliances quickly with a number of different players. I don't have a particular preference for one style or the other; I'd rather see different styles win in different seasons. But it would be a shame if a Tom or Yul could no longer win this game because of two many producer twists. And I think it's a real problem when one part of the game (e.g. tribal switch) undermines another supposedly important part of the game (team challenge performance.)

Perhaps the producer's could make a couple of changes to get some balance back. Pretty sure this has been discussed before with similar, or different, suggestions:

A maximum of two II's per season. Make them challenging to find but allow the finder to play it after votes are read so that it is truly an advantage, not something that makes you a target week in and week out. Guess wrong one week and you are gone.

Second limit the number of twists made in a season. Maybe two per season. Announce in advance there will be two twists so players will know to expect another and play accordingly if only one twist has occurred. And try to avoid the random reshuffling of teams. Prefer allowing players to rechoose teams if reshuffling is desired.

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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 03:00 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Hello Iltarion. I am truly happy to see you back, I thought we had lost you.

As far as the winners of today, I'd say that Todd and Parvati are great improvements on Brian and Jenna!!

And to address this: "Michel is still reaching conclusions supported by evidence flimsy enough..."

I'll say that I use a lot more evidence than you are aware exists. There is a lot more in depth analysis on the spoiler board where the real speculation happens. I also had the chance to read and respond to many past Survivors that post on different boards. To name a few: Jenna M, Lil, Eliza, Jonathan, Adam, Shane, Cirie, Kathleen, Erik, Mikey B. Their insight help my conclusions.


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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 10:24 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
Ah, come on, don't belittle me. I am aware of what's out there, for the most part. I spend a little time on the Spoilers board, though not much by choice. We have already much discussed the value of all those postgame interviews. Some of it is informative, and some of it is just history being rewritten and unreliable. I was joking with those two cracks anyway. You still have your props from correctly reading the editing to Fans vs. Faves (and that unfortunate result).
Neither Parvati nor Todd touch Brian in the game of Survivor, but everyone already knows my views on that. Parvati and Todd are two great players though, and two of the better winners. I would not say otherwise. I am just saying I would prefer to see people who play a upfront and loyal game win. I am not saying that is true for everyone. I know Parvati and Todd have their fans, (michel being one), but their style is not for me.
The constant tribe switches lessen the human drama by not allowing the same groups of people to stay together. It brings more luck into the game, which TV producers would call interest, but not me, and it devalues the importance of the tribal part of the game, which is half, or in this season, more than half the season.


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SpotTheDifference 906 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-08, 11:14 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
1. Matty (10, 7, 3, 2, 2, 3) - Did a great job in the IC, but is still in a losing position over at Fang. He remains to be the most likeable player out of this group, though.

2. Bob (2, 8, 8, 6, 4, 6) - Terrific performance in the IC, but has been invisible strategy-wise. He seems to be the extra vote, and that's not going to get him far now that he's in the minority.

3. Ken (1, 2, 7, 4, 1, 1) - This episode was more Crystal than Kenny, but I still think that, at least to me, he's the most relateable person in the game.

4. Sugar (15, 3, 4, 5, 6, 5) - So the good vs. evil theme is now emerging, and I still can't figure out where to place her. Props for recognizing her bad move in the last episode, but it may just be too little to late for her.

5. Crystal (6, 1, 10, 11, 11, 10) - I can't put her any lower for saving her ally

6. Randy (9, 5, 2, 3, 7, 7) - Here by default.

7. Susie (16, 13, 11, 12, 12, 9) - I consider vote-swinging a valid strategy, and while it doesn't earn her any favors from the Onions, I think it still improves her position in the game, even if it's only a place higher.

8. Corrinne (11, 9, 6, 9, 8, 4) - She and Charlie have been overshadowed by Marcus as the "face" of the Onions. Maybe now that Marcus is gone, they can both show that they can step up and make waves in the game.

9. Charlie (4, 10, 5, 7, 9, 8) - see Corrinne.

Booted: Marcus - Sorry to see him go. He seemed to be a better player than almost the entire cast.


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michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-08, 06:18 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
I guess I should write my list!

1- Corinne(4,1,3,6,4,1): I like her since she's always planning ahead. Next week will need to be her best effort. I can't wait to see her reacting to Jeff's: "Fang, getting their first look at the new Kota, Marcus voted out." We should have to take a drink every time one of her words gets bleeped!

2- Matty(10,7,6,5,1,6): He got his miracle. What will he do with it? The game is in his hands.

3- Sugar(13,2,4,4,5,2): Eve is still in Eden.

4- Randy(3,3,1,1,3,3): Having reminded me of Hatch from the start, Randy reminded me of Earl with his "King of Gabon" speech. It's only to tease us, isn't it?

5- Bob (1,9,5,7,5,5): He showed great determination in the IC. Too bad he didn't use his influence on Susie.

6- Ken (12,9,11,11,10,7): He may be a player but when we hear: "Kenny being safe tonight depends 100% on Susie" it isn't a good sign.

7- Charlie(6,4,8,9,8,8): If the plan was to throw the IC then he had to let his poles drop before Marcus just to discourage Matty a bit.

8- Crystal (13,13,12,12,11,9): She's a very opportunistic player. It's hard to believe she ever was a world class athlete!

9- Susie (15,12,14,13,12,10): At least she's thinking of winning.

Booted- Marcus(2,5,2,2,2,4): Thinking he had it made, he stopped playing the game.

PS: Sorry Iltarion, didn't mean to belittle you but your "reaching conclusions on flimsy evidence" didn't look like a joke and I reacted too strongly.

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iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-08, 07:22 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Survivor Love/Loathe List v17.7"
LAST EDITED ON 11-10-08 AT 07:24 PM (EST)

No need to apologize. There is some truth in every joke, or it wouldn't be funny. You go ahead and react however you want. We both know where you're coming from, and I expect you to keep bringing it. Things wouldn't be the same if you didn't.


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