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"BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
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molerific 56 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-02, 11:17 PM (EST)
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"BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
LAST EDITED ON 08-06-02 AT 11:19 PM (EST)

Were you surprised by any of the sabotages?
It was interesting that the producers told Bill to take the exemption and end the "hit the ball all night" game. Looking at it now, it seems obvious that he was the mole, but at the time, after two other folks had gone to bed, it seemed normal. It was interesting that Bill was NOT told who was lying in the "who is lying?" game after Anderson's Fun House. It was funny to see Bill's face fall in the clip that showed his reaction to Dorothy opening the greenhouse lock. Hah! I'm sure the producers also told him NOT to take the dossier, and to increase the pot. I wish they'd tell us more about what and why the producers did what they did.

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  Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage ejm92 08-06-02 1
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage DaSaintFan 08-06-02 2
   Exemption Lie Femme 08-07-02 8
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage Wild Eel 08-07-02 3
   RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage BunsTsukino 08-07-02 4
       RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage DIZWIZ2002 08-07-02 5
       RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage TheBoredGuy 08-07-02 7
           RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage Bebo 08-07-02 9
               RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage sittem 08-07-02 13
 Bill Vs. Kathryn Jims02 08-07-02 6
   RE: Bill Vs. Kathryn TheBrilliantHen 08-07-02 14
       Hiding in plain sight AyaK 08-07-02 15
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage Serendipity 08-07-02 10
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage ENiGMa0221 08-07-02 11
 RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage ejm92 08-07-02 12

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ejm92 2221 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-02, 11:25 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
Sounds to me like Bill knew what he was doing more so than the producers, that episode made the producers sound pretty dumb for some of the things. I wish they had shown how Bill didn't sabotage the most, though, because others out-sabotaged him.
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DaSaintFan 47 desperate attention whore postings
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08-06-02, 11:26 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I missed episode 2, so I was shocked to learn that Bill had suggested the others lie to say they had gotten the exemption..

And yeah, Bill's face when Dorothy got the lock had me chuckling... "Dammit! I was this close to making sure they didn't get that one!"

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Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 09:41 AM (EST)
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8. "Exemption Lie"
I remember there was debate about this. Everyone had different opinions about WHO had suggested they go back to the bar. Glad it's been revealed and glad that it turned out to be part of the sabotage. What a nice, tight little detail. I like that!


Femme

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Wild Eel 3 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 00:09 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I think i was surprised that all the sabotages this year were all fairly out in the open. I was expected some of the sabotages to be along the lines of what Kathryn did in the dice game season one. Also, I have a feeling they left out a lot of the more subtle sabotages, like pointing the wrong dirrection in the pizza game.
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BunsTsukino 23 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 00:19 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I still have to say, as much as Bill did, he didn't take much money from the pot. He wasn't a very good mole. I was so hoping for Dorothy or Heather. Such a disapointment!
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DIZWIZ2002 33 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 07:50 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I guess I see it a little differently. I think Bill was a good Mole (after all, only a few of the executed players suspected him) but he didn't have to sabotage the pot all that much because the players were oing a fine job of that on their own. Dorothy, as it turns out, really WAS physically inept. Katie really DIDN'T see that missing G. We at home were fed a whole lot a Bill clues, so he seemed obvious to many of us...but not all of us. A lot of people still had their doubts about Bill. I, personally, am just so happy that Dorothy was the big winner. She played a good game. I loved the way she was all bubbly afterwards, leting her real personality shine through. DIZWIZ
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TheBoredGuy 49 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 09:33 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
>I still have to say, as
>much as Bill did, he
>didn't take much money from
>the pot. He wasn't a
>very good mole. I was
>so hoping for Dorothy or
>Heather. Such a disapointment!

I think that's attributable to the skill of the players. Bill had the right idea in the first two episodes, putting Rob and Al into challenges that they'd have trouble with. But unfortunately for him, they both came through. The fact that the group worked together a lot more this season than last makes the mole's job that much harder... in Kathryn's case, she just had to wait for the group to start their bickering, and she could do her thing. Not so in this season.

The mole's job _has_ to be hard, because a) he can't do too much or he'll be obvious, b) he has to spend a lot of time looking like a player to keep his identity under wraps, and c) sabotage relies on the actions of other players. And again, this time, the players as a whole were much stronger than season one.

I thought Bill did a great job with what he could do.

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Bebo 20880 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 10:10 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
>I thought Bill did a great job with what he could do.

Well said. Two of the things I really liked:
- That from day one he was tuning in to the other players to try and exploit their weaknesses. Someone on this board had pointed out how Rob was put into the biathlon challenge even though he said he was no athlete and was dead on target that it was sabotage.
- How Bill handled the pool challenge. He made an obvious goof that most people dismissed as Bill trying to convince the others that he was the Mole. Sometimes subtle isn't the way to go - just put the obvious out there and see who dismisses it as being "too easy". The huge amount of debate on this board about that one is proof in my mind of his success.

Since we all have different ideas of how we would play if we were the Mole, or how we would like for the Mole to play, we're going to disagree on whether or not Bill was a good Mole. Mark me down on the list that liked him as the Mole - not because he was my pick, but because I liked all of the different ways he tried to sabotage. Some were successful, some weren't, but I liked his strategy.



Big Blowser 3 profile
Bebo: Age 23. Female Human. Lingerie Model & Bartender. Rude, mean, snotty, etc. Major breast augmentation, wears thong bikinis every day. BB3ís eye candy.
"You're an evil, evil woman Ms. Bebo. I'm sure you're used to those kind of compliments" - katem
I scare people. Hmmm.

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sittem 4186 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 06:35 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
Bebo - astute comments regarding Bill. I have more positive feelings about him and his work after last night. I have more respect for his moleness now and how he carried himself and how he worked.

My only complaint now relates to the hidden clues and the way to obvious (though I and many others discounted them because they couldn't possibly be that obvious!!) clues that spelled it out. The ships, pisces, Mickey D's, even the telegram were good hidden clues. Spelling out "Bill is the Mole" just grates on me as a "hidden" clue. Hidden to the vast majority, but hardly open to interpretation for those who could capture it unless one was an ardent antibillfomo like me.

So, maybe I'm just bitter about being wrong. But, I'll guess I'll be back for M3. And, as an aside - thanks for all you do to keep these boards moving in the right direction!

2002 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.

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Jims02 7328 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 08:28 AM (EST)
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6. "Bill Vs. Kathryn"
These two, in my mind, were complete opposite moles.

1. Kathryn was suspected by the players more than Bill this season.
2. Kathryn fooled more message boards (poll results), while Bill lead the poll.
3. Kathryn was a luckier mole/cost more $ than Bill IMO.

I do think Kathryn was a better mole. My reasoning is just that first of all Bill got so unlucky most of the time with his sabotage. Secondly, they never mentioned all the games that he did win, which seem to outweigh his losses IMO. Remember: 100K was lost by Heather alone.

These are most of my opinions though.

By the way, one more observation:

Looking back on the Lotto Clothes and the Ice Cream, I now see why ABC chose NOT to show what completely happened. If Bill wasn't the mole, they would have showed it, raising suspicion to him.
-----------------------------------
Quotes of the week:
1. "Al, do you think you could move just a little?"-Myra
2. "Ewww... Patrick, no... I don't want to see that."-Heather
3. "I really hope Darwin doesn't realize I have a coalition with Dorothy, or... that could be bad."-Lisa
4. "Gas station attendants... They no NOTHING about flat tires... Let's ask these tourists!"-Darwin
5. "I swear, Rob, if this freaks me out I'm gonna punch you."-Anderson
6. "Those hills are a b!tch."-Anderson
7. "Um, thanks guys for not liking me!" (waves the $ at them)-Elavia
8. "They do look like piercing blue eyes, Heather, but I don't get it. He's totally making out with (that girl)."- Bribs
9. "I was a little surprised when Anderson came into my room in a suit. He usually just comes into my room in his pajamas, just his bottoms usually."-Darwin
10. "Man, I'm screwed."-Dorothy
11. (creepily) "Tiny bubbles... In my wine... Makes me happy."-Anderson

12. "I'll tell ya... I don't understand a thing, but I enjoy riding!!! " -Bill

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TheBrilliantHen 28 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 08:53 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Bill Vs. Kathryn"
Hm, yeah his luck was bad...that first biathalon challenge was a good example. I'm more of the opinion that Bill did better overall, though. I didn't watch last season, mind you, but from what I've read, Kathryn won a fair amount of money herself, including a similar big money win in the last challenge. The mole has to play team player sometimes, or even be a hero.

For how many players were in the game, I think under Bill the pot lost as much or more money over time. Way way rough math:
500K divided by 10 players = 50K "made" per player
600K divided by 14 players = 43K "made" per player
To be fair, that may be connected to the difficulty of challenges between the seasons (I don't know).

Meanwhile, who thought the mole was the mole at the end, after watching the tapes?
4 out of 10 players = 40 %, without final 2, 2/8 or 25%
5 out of 14 players = 35 %, without final 2, 3/12 or 25%

That's actually pretty impressive, considering that Bill had to maintain for a much longer period of time with a more closely knit group, especially since they had the chance to watch a season of the show. I was shocked more of them didn't choose Bill, then flipflopped and wondered if Bribs, Bob or Rob, had surveyed the internet as part of their decision making process.

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AyaK 10083 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 09:10 PM (EST)
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15. "Hiding in plain sight"
The thing I found impressive about Bill was this: in the first quiz in Mole 1, three people pegged Kathryn as the mole, and two of them ended up as the final two without ever changing their pick. But even after Bill's blatant sabotage in the second episode in Mole 2, NOT ONE person picked him to be the mole -- he didn't get his first vote as the mole until E3, from Bribs, and the final two didn't vote for him as the mole until E9.

Kathryn's sabotage may have been more blatant, but Bill stayed hidden in plain sight for MUCH longer.

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Serendipity 525 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 10:25 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I rather liked Bill's low-key approach to the sabotage. One of the things I never noticed was how Bill reclining poolside really bothered Darwin & Bribs. And poor Lisa got the blame for suggesting that Bribs & Ali fool the others by claiming they took an exemption.

I know one of the jobs of the Mole is to keep money out of the pot, but I think the most important task is not to be suspected. And Bill succeeded very well at that.

Also importantly, Bill had something very nice to say about every executed player as they left. That has to help remove any bad taste in their mouth about being fooled.

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ENiGMa0221 2 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 01:09 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I think that on the lie/truth game the producers told Bill who was gonna lie and who was gonna tell the truth but told him to get it wrong to keep suspicions on sum1 else. But bill was a good mole indeed. sad that it had to end.
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ejm92 2221 desperate attention whore postings
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08-07-02, 01:16 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: BIll's Undercover Sabotage"
I think Bill was a better Mole, mainly because he wasn't as suspicious to his fellow players, he did his job. Kathryn was more suspect than the others, as we've heard, most people figured who she was in episode one, but Steve/Jim misdirected them later on and saved the whole premise of the game.
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