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"Survivor 37 Player Rankings Ep. 12"
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Aruba 3037 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

12-06-18, 08:14 PM (EST)
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"Survivor 37 Player Rankings Ep. 12"
Seems to me Squonk got bitten by that Big Green Monster called—JEALOUSY. Gabby saying “I’m sorry” to Alison when Alison’s name was first read after the five irrelevant Christian votes were revealed makes that a classic TC moment.

1) CHRISTIAN – He’s owned this season and was the star of this episode. When Davie spilled the beans to him, no one would have blamed Christian if he didn’t believe it thinking that statement was sooooo preposterous. In the end, his non-verbal communication read at TC was dead-on. Well done...now THAT’S how you read players and successfully play the HII! Gollum Girl professing her “love” for Christian could be a nail in Christian’s coffin going forward, but his proactive and astute play has gotten him this far.

2) NICK – Although I appropriately ranked Christian #1 based on Ep. 12, Nick is my pick right now to take the million. I get Davie was with him when he found the clue and Davie was beneficial as a “Lookout” while Nick retrieved the idol, but he did NOT share his idol find with Christian. So, with all the carrying on he did about Christian betraying their trust, it could certainly be perceived as hypocritical. Truth be told, he knows he would have a difficult time beating Christian at the FTC, so probably used it as a convenient excuse. At any rate, a Nick, Mike, Lady Centaur FTC would be an appetizing Final Nick should have no problem sinking his teeth into.

3) KARA – Great effort winning the IC even though I figured she would win even before Jeff said, “This IC is on.” If anyone remaining can go on a challenge run, it’s this cutie...yet no one targets her as a viable threat. Whether she wants to stick with the four Goliaths, or tries to form a F3 all-girl alliance, or continue to paint a bigger target on Christian—she has options.

4) DAVIE – Hey, what do you know...Production has casted someone who can actually apply first grade math. I’m obviously talking about realizing he was #4 in the four-person RC alliance pact and reacted accordingly. It was interesting his mom boasted over how “charming” Davie is. Charm is what a predator may use to lure his victim. Can he “charm” his way to a Survivor title? I doubt it, but it could be interesting to watch.

5) MIKE – I would classify Mike as a player who is playing a great game to get to the Finals, but will have little to no shot at winning. Being able get by the greatest divide in Reality TV and make it to that point would be an accomplishment in itself. I would really like to know who between Mike and Angelina proposed the Gabby blindside assuming Christian might play his idol.

6) LADY CENTAUR – If it was Sequoia-lina who proposed the two votes for Gollum Girl, I’d move her up a little in the rankings for this episode. As it stands, I cannot imagine she could garnish enough Jury votes to win...making her pretty ideal to bring to the Finals. Just when she was beginning to shed some tonnage off the horse-half of her torso, she goes off to pig out at a reward. Oh well, there’s still a lot of stretch in those blubber-compression leggings.

7) ALISON – Irrelevant in the game; expendable with a vote. Not a best combination on Day 31. Had she been voted out, I’m pretty sure Alison would not have spun around and told the apologetic Gabby to “SHUT UP!” HaHa.


BOOTED

GABBY – Well, it was not the misdirection I initially thought. Her turncoat tactic was as bold as they come. I applaud proactivity, but when you’ve allowed yourself to be carried for the first 30 days, sometimes you need to ride the horse you came in on to win. Whereas, I do not advocate that lame approach, Survivor has made millionaires of several castaways who rode coattails; and at the end of the day, their millions were just as green as Tom Westman’s. I do feel jealousy played a part in her turncoat, but she receives high marks for her exit. I got to wonder if her words of “love” to Christian were genuine or purposely said to paint a bigger target on him making the others think she’d give him her vote.

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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
 My Rankings michel2 12-08-18 1
   RE: My Rankings Aruba 12-09-18 2
       RE: My Rankings michel2 12-09-18 3
           RE: My Rankings Aruba 12-10-18 4
               RE: My Rankings michel2 12-10-18 5
                   RE: My Rankings Aruba 12-11-18 6
                       RE: My Rankings michel2 12-11-18 7

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michel2 3149 desperate attention whore postings
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12-08-18, 07:36 PM (EST)
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1. "My Rankings "
LAST EDITED ON 12-09-18 AT 12:02 PM (EST)

They’re so Smart, They’re Dumb

Previously on Survivor, Gabby and Christian voted out a David, shocking Nick, Davie and Angelina.

Now that has to be the shortest recap ever. Strangely, it was meant as a recap for 2 episodes but it seems that the only things that matter these days are what transpire at TC. We’ll soon have a season with only Tribal Councils where the tribes will live, play their challenges and vote. I think that would make Jeff happy. The only thing to note about this TC is that it sort of made Angelina an honorary David because she was part of the trio that was shocked when a David left.

Koka Kola Night 30

The shocked Nick had the first interview: “Tonight’s Tribal Council was a shock. Christian and Gabby voted out Carl and I was blindsided. I don’t get it. I mean, those two, they’re so smart they’re dumb. Like, what kind of move is that?” Nick asked Christian for an explanation, adding that they used three advantages to get the majority and then gave the numbers right back. His interview continued and he was just as irate: “I regret saving Christian. We burnt every advantage we had to get a David lead and now he does this ##### and doesn’t even tell me the vote. Yeah! I’m pretty mad.” Christian tried to convince Nick that they were still good with Gabby and that everyone wanted Alison gone next. That still didn’t stop Nick from saying: “In my mind, the Mason-Dixon alliance is dead. I’m still going to play it up but I’m going to remember this and as soon as I get a chance, I won’t hesitate to blindside Christian.”

The Reward Challenge

What I noted was the way the cameras focused on Gabby when Christian’s girlfriend came on the beach. It was as if telling us that Gabby felt cheated and would be turning against Christian in part out of jealousy.

I also got to understand Davie’s character a lot better by listening to his mom; he’s the reincarnation of Borneo Gervase, using his natural charm to get everyone on his side. At least Davie has learned from watching 36 seasons!

Interestingly, Gabby told her mother: “I’m almost done”. Indeed she was.

Angelina used her time with her mom to point out that she sacrificed her chance at immunity to get rice for the tribe.

With that making it on air, it makes me think Angelina will use that heavily in her speech to the jury.

Even if they had fallen far behind during the first part of the challenge, Nick and Angelina won the reward. For Angelina it was her first reward. Having to choose two players to accompany them, Nick held his promise to Davie by choosing him. Angelina chose Mike.

The Reward: A Floating Platform in the middle of nowhere

Don’t you just love the local charm and culture that we get to enjoy during the rewards these days?!

Davie told his mom he caught an octopus.
Nick told Dad that this could be the Final 4.
Mike told Josh that he was working the middle and that the four present could make a Final Four deal.
Angelina told her mom and Davie’s that this was her ideal group of four.

Angelina had the first interview: “At the Bar-B-Q, we obviously spent a majority of time with our loved ones catching up but we also used this time to talk strategy. The Loved ones visit worked out perfectly for me because the group of four who went was actually the group that I wanted to be in the Final Four.”

Davie had other ideas as he told us during his interview: “Mike, Nick and Angelina; they’re talking about Final Four but they’ve all spent much longer with each other than I have because they were all on the Jabeni tribe together. So I feel a little bit on the outside. I don’t think this alliance is the smartest move for me.”

Back in Camp

Christian was explaining his relation with Emily to Kara who was obviously finding it cute.

The camera cut in on Gabby a few times and it didn’t look like she was finding it as cute.

Alison was bent over and she easily made fire.

Let’s remember this; it could be a hint that Alison wins the Final Four Fire Challenge.

It was time for Gabby to expose her plan: They had to do Christian. She then brought Kara into the mix.

Kara’s interview: “Oh! my gosh! Gabby wants to blindside Christian. I couldn’t believe it was coming out of her mouth. It blows my mind. I’ve been trying to find a way to get Christian out of the game for a while. He’s a pretty good player so I’m all for this plan.”

The Immunity Challenge

In this endurance challenge, we had Mike, Gabby, Alison and Angelina fell before the fifteen minute mark. That’s when the spectators started giving advice to Nick. No one answered Christian when he asked if he was square.

Maybe one day someone will figure out that it’s smarter to encourage or give advice to the person you’re targeting instead of your own ally.

Despite the advice, Nick was the next to go. That’s when that old challenge bug came bugging Davie. It wouldn’t go away despite Davie’s attempts at blowing at it. Christian was the one to fall though. Davie put up a good fight but that bug got the better of him. So, in the end, Kara who had been solid in a couple of previous challenges won this one.

Alison had an interview as the group headed out: “I like the way Gabby is thinking right now; it’s time to take out Christian. I am cautiously optimistic that this plan will succeed. However, we’ve tried to get Christian out before. What’s to say that he doesn’t pull out something from his hat as well for this third time around again?”

Back in Camp

Sharks were circling the waters, a sign that there would be a big kill coming up soon.

Gabby said it was time to go big or go home.

She wasn’t quite right; it was time to go big AND go home!

Informed of Gabby’s plan, Nick had an interview: “Of all people, Gabby comes up to me to say how do you feel about voting out Christian? I’m like; I’m totally fine with it. I was trying to find a way that I could come up with the numbers for Christian. I’m pissed off; I’ve saved Christian’s butt from going home twice and what does he do? At the last Tribal Council, he totally betrays me. At this point, Christian is dead to me and it’s time he gets a taste of his own medicine.”

The four people who had been together on reward considered Gabby’s plan and when Mike wondered if Christian had an idol, Nick informed him that he had seen Christian’s idol so the two of them should put votes on Gabby. Mike and Angelina really liked Nick’s idea to split the votes.

It didn’t sit as well with Davie who gave this interview: “Nick is totally down with voting out Christian with Gabby has a back-up just in case he plays an idol. But it just doesn’t feel right for me. Even though Christian blindsided me twice, I don’t take it personal. That’s part of the game you know. But Nick is convinced that Christian’s got to go. I’ve shielded myself so far by hiding behind people seen as a big threat but who is going to be my shield if I get Christian out? So, I got to keep Christian in this game.”

While Nick was ready to get the Rock Star band back together for one special gig, Davie was going behind his back and warning Christian of the new developments.

Christian’s interview: “I’m floored. According to Davie Gabby is gunning for me. She feels like she doesn’t have a chance to win unless she makes a move and takes me out. I’m stunned. Gabby and I have been together this entire game. We probably haven’t been separated for more than an hour over the course of this whole month so I’m having a hard time believing it. Apparently, Nick is so burned by the Carl vote that he wants to take revenge on me. I still have my idol that I can play to insure Alison goes home but that would leave me vulnerable at the next vote. The best course of action right now is to try to repair the damage with Nick.”

Mason talked to Dixon on the beach, one admitting his error.
Nick’s interview: “Christian is apologizing profusely to me, saying you know, he took our relationship for granted but I don’t trust Christian fully anymore and probably never will. Now I’m going to manipulate him because, if he’s convinced he’s got the Mason-Dixon back together that is going to make it that much easier to blindside him.”

Christian’s final interview: “Not being immune has put me in a bit of a tight spot. I know I’m getting votes. Fortunately, Nick still wants to work with me. I’m pretty sure I can marshal enough votes to vote out Alison out. I’d rather not use my idol but I’ll use it if I have to but hopefully, I don’t have to and so far, I’ve been right every time.”

Tribal Council

Nick told Jeff that not all big moves are smart moves.

Someone has been listening to us!

He added that he was mad at Christian but that they fixed their relationship.

When Jeff asked if anyone wanted to play an idol, Christian let the seconds tick and just when Jeff was about to open the urn, he asked Jeff for a second.

Jeff could have said sorry, too late but he knows good drama when he creates it... I mean sees it.

As for Christian, he did something that we’ve been advocating for a long time: He observed his rivals, looking for clues about their intentions. He must have seen something because he pulled his idol from his shoe and played it.

The votes cast on Christian by Gabby, Alison, Kara, Nick and Davie were nullified.

Christian voted for Alison which made Gabby think her plan was going to sink her friend. She apologized to Alison but soon found out there was another layer to the plan.

Mike and Angelina voted for Gabby sending her to face the grim reaper.

The Story

The Loved Ones visit episode used to be an occasion to learn more about the castaways through the eyes of their family members. It was also an occasion to visit a spectacular area of the land hosting the game. Now? It’s reduced to some sort of talk show hosted by Jeff. His attempts at his own show having failed miserably, he’s using his tribune on Survivor to interview people and joke with them. There are enough late night talk show on TV we don’t need Jeff’s pathetic imitation.

As for the episode itself, I usually like to find the quote that fits best them theme of the evening myself but this time Nick’s line was just perfect that I used it as well. These players are smart and understand the game very well but it seems to confuse them, to make them hesitate or to push ahead too quickly. The way they forgive each other for votes received is admirable but the old rule of playing with someone until that person proves they can’t be trusted is still the smartest way to play.

The Characters

7- Alison: For someone who was almost voted out during the previous episode, she didn’t do a lot to guarantee her safety. She let the game come to her even if it had almost run over her. It almost got her this time and it could be argued that Nick’s plan would have been better if he had told Mike and Angelina to vote against Alison.

6- Kara: She was rock solid during this challenge and has done well in a few previous ones but she’s now left with only Alison on her side. She’ll need another switch in the game if she wants to make it to the end but she has been quite shy about initiating any move other than her failed attempt at getting Dan out.

5- Davie: So Davie managed to keep his shield but will that really help him win this game? What if Christian wins immunity at the next challenge? Or what if Christian finds another idol? With the stupid format that this game has adopted Davie should have realized that a solid Final Four is all you need. There are no votes at F4 or at F3 anymore so get a Final Four deal and then practice making fire! Gervase thought he could win Survivor by being the most charming person in Borneo and 36 seasons later, his doppelgänger hasn’t yet accomplished anything more substantial.

4- Angelina: She walked to the merger and quickly lost everyone’s trust but she quietly managed to create the necessary conditions to be in the strongest Final Three deal out there. Interestingly, it’s her old Jabeni alliance that almost got her out of the game BEFORE the merger. It’s unlikely that the jury would reward her in the end but if she makes it there it will be a nice accomplishment especially considering she proactively rebuilt that alliance during the reward. She helped create the Final 4 deal so she wasn’t carried by it.

3- Mike: Rarely has a player been pushed out and pulled in to alliances as often as Mike. Right from the start he was pushed out of the Goliath alliance when Jeremy was eliminated but he was pulled into a cross-tribal alliance almost as soon as the Jabeni tribe was formed. That got him in the Strike Force but that alliance didn’t survive the first vote after the merger. He was pulled back into the Goliath tribal alliance but the clever play of the Davids forced him to abandon that sinking ship. He first went with Christian and Gabby to blindside Carl and shock Nick but then he was pulled back into the Rock Star alliance when Angelina chose him to partake in the reward. Now it looks like he’s in the alliance that will make it to the end game but how much respect will he have gained from the jury? Rats and cockroaches are well suited to survive cataclysms and this game has been close to cataclysmic but the jury would prefer to vote for a more worthy survivor than the rat that played the middle.

2- Christian: Like we noted last week, breaking up the Mason-Dixon alliance was a bad decision and it has forced Christian into his last entrenchment. His survival depends on finding an idol, winning immunity or finding a way to turn the game back in his favor. For some, all three methods are equivalent but if outwitting still means something Christian would need to find new allies if he still wants to be considered one of the best winners ever. The other two methods rely mostly on luck and while that could still bring him the million we wouldn’t forget that he made it despite making a dumb move.

1- Nick: The public defender found a way to turn a bad situation into a positive. Winning reward played a role in creating the perfect conditions to rebuild the Jabeni alliance but that was only a catalyst. The alliance of Nick, Mike and Angelina took over the game because they had been tested by the vote and because of Nick’s charm. Mike said it; playing with Nick is fun and that kind of fun plays a role out there. Last week, it looked like Christian could go on to win if he survived Gabby’s betrayal but the battle cost him too much. The way that the beginning of the episode focused on Nick’s feelings and how it showed that Christian was wrong in not telling his friend about his intentions are good indications that Nick will not only make it to the Final Tribal Council but will win the vote.

Booted - Gabby: We can understand the need to build a case but it was much too early to turn on your closest ally. Christian wasn’t going to vote against her any time soon so she would have been stronger with him than against. I liked Gabby because she was a fun character but her game was weak.

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Aruba 3037 desperate attention whore postings
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12-09-18, 11:34 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: My Rankings "
WOW...what an elaborate assessment! I have to admit I’m kinda jealous. Jealousy I haven’t really had much time lately with being out of the country; then out of the State; our Thanksgiving Holiday in between; and now our year-end Holiday season looming. It’s been crazy to say the least.

Overall, I pretty much agree with your assessments. Had I projected the remainder of the season when ranking castaways, I would have ranked Nick #1 as well; but I focused more on Ep. 12.

A few comments/observations:

I was going to make the same exact assessment on Alison about being rather complacent after finding herself very much at risk after the prior TC. I guess a natural tendency (even if you are on the chopping block) is to figure with the idiots Production makes a habit of casting, someone in the next three days is bound to do something dumb or outlandish to put a bigger target on themselves, so why not just sit back and let it happen? This is a big reason for Alison’s advancement, but even in a best-case scenario should she make FTC, it gives her zero chance to win.

NOOOO way anyone can make me believe Carl had the “genius” to write Dan’s name on the nullifier on an educated assessment that he had a second HII. No one will convince me Kara did not slip that information to Carl before he wrote Dan’s name on the back. If what I’m saying is correct, then Kara was quite successful in getting Dan out.

Not only Davie, but EVERYONE should be practicing fire-building EVERY opportunity they can! At this stage of the game, that flint would be an eleventh finger on my hands for crying out loud!! Once again, stellar job by the CBS Casting crew. *snort*

Lady Centaur shot herself in the foot coveting a coat over allegiance solidarity on her swapped tribe. She proceeded to shot herself in the head at the first post-merge TC. Putting it all together, she has no chance to win...and the rest of the castaways know that making her a PRIME candidate to sit next to at FTC. Given those occurrences, I’d be shocked if she DIDN’T make the Finals.

Your assessment of Mike is dead-on. He friggin’ sucks at challenges, and his age makes it difficult to be a colorful social butterfly among the 20-some year-olds. Being the situational guy in the middle is really the best card he has to play and he’s played it quite well to his credit. But you are also correct in saying it will not be a recipe for victory this season. Dan is the only Jury who has been chomping at the bit during these TCs making him the only Bitter Betty candidate from my observation. All the others appear they will vote within the true spirit of the game at FTC.

I can’t imagine anything Christian can do that will make him the “Best Winner Ever” in my mind. But if he does pull it out, it would be a satisfying and deserving victory. Sorry, but it’s not bad “luck” if you decide to sleep...or pow-wow in the ocean...or flutter your wings as social butterflies back at camp while others are PROACTIVELY searching for advantages/idols to help control their fates. Sure, “Outlast” can be dumbass luck, but “Outplay” is more proactively taking matters into your own hands. “Outwitting” would mean more to me if it was achieved without “outlying” or “out-backstabbing.”

We both seem to think the F3 could be Nick, Mike, and Lady Centaur for good reason. If we are both right, at least one good thing could come from it—we won’t be subjected to that horrendous tie-breaker at the Reunion Show!

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michel2 3149 desperate attention whore postings
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12-09-18, 02:19 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: My Rankings "
Thank you, Aruba, I'm glad you enjoyed it. This has actually been my format for analysing the stories since Exile Island and I have posted it in the editing thread for all those years. I was even lucky enough to post this as a blog on Rob Cesternino's website for many years. Double posts weren't allowed so I used to edit my post to the character portion in order to discuss the episode with you, Iltarion and others over the years but there isn't anyone left to make rules here anymore so, if you have time, you'll have my lenghty posts to read each week! I'm never sure if it will be pleasure or torture for the reader but I always try to be entertaining.

You are right in saying that Alison isn't the first person to let someone else hang themselves but, like you, I prefer the proactive approach. I disagree that it's because of poor casting choices because I've seen the same in on-line games. It's the very nature of this game of trust that makes people change course so often. Very few players have been able to see the right path to the end and keep to it.

I totally disagree with you that Kara told Carl to write Dan's name on the nullifier for the simple reason that she didn't even know such an object existed. When she discussed the plan with the Davids she did say that Dan COULD have another idol so that they'd need to split the votes but then she backtracked and recommitted herself to the Goliaths so she doesn't deserve any credit for Dan's elimination.

The editors wouldn't show people practicing their fire making skills. That would make for boring viewing and could even blow the suspense of the F4 challenge. We simply do not know how much time they put in making fire.

Yes, Angelina would make for a good goat but I wanted you to appreciate the efforts she's making to get there. She's been pushed aside many times by both sides but she's still ticking and is in a much better position that Alison for instance.

Mike is a smart person and he has a strong social game but he's been all over the place as far as strategy goes. I'd even say that playing the middle is a wrong description. Except for the Carl vote, he's never been "in the middle"; he's either been on the right side or the wrong side of every vote and only his non-threatening status lets him jump from one ship to the other.

In last week's assessment, I wrote that I could rank Christian as the best winner ever if he was able to sniff out Gabby's plan and figure a way to counter it. He didn't sniff it, he needed Davie to betray his alliance. He didn't counter it, he simply saved himself with an idol and didn't even get Alison voted out. For me, winning challenges and finding idols is pure luck. Outwitting, even if it means lying and betraying, is what makes this game great. It's the machinations that I want to see and it's why I'd rank Kim Spradling and Todd Herzog as my favorite winners ever.

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Aruba 3037 desperate attention whore postings
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12-10-18, 07:51 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: My Rankings "
You were rubbing shoulders with THE Rob C?! I never realized I was interacting with a celebrity! Kudos to you. One’s personal insight is never really “torture.” Even if not agreeable, it’s always good for some entertaining chuckles. “Iltarion”-now there’s a name from the past. Wonder if Kingfish fell into the big black hole along with him? HaHa

OK, back to the subject at hand...
I do not see the correlation between Production’s ineptness with casting and people who play games on some computer. An NFL coach who is up by three TDs would not call for an on sides kick. An NHL coach up by two goals would not pull his goalie with a couple minutes remaining. They would be regarded as acts as idiocy and the teams would be appropriately criticized for selecting such coaches. Hence my appropriate criticism of Production’s selection of players who do outlandish things when not necessary.

I never said Kara knew about the nullifier. Maybe she did; maybe she didn’t. What I said is I believe Carl knew Dan had that second HII before he wrote Dan’s name on the back. Kara made it blatantly clear she would be better off in the game without Dan. Kara was the only one who knew about Dan’s second idol, so in some way, shape or form she shared that info making her very much responsible for successfully eliminating Dan. Now if Carl never got any info from Kara, then Carl’s read would have to go down as the greatest in Survivor history.

Bob Crowley was shown practicing fire-making and I did not regard that segment as “boring” whatsoever. It was that practice that allowed Bob to win the tie-breaker with ease and go on to deservingly win the season. Conversely, when we’ve watched countless players fail miserably making fire, we know bloody well they were either not practicing or not spending much quality time trying to master a necessary “survivor” skill. Afterall, the name of the game is “SURVIVOR.”

I not going to spend more time naming all the former players who sat at FTC because they were dragged there as perfect goats. The list would be lengthy. Furthermore, I wouldn’t give any of them props for their so-called “efforts” getting dragged there, thus my opinion regarding Lady Centaur potentially being dragged herself as a perfect goat this season will remain consistently the same as the others before her.

When I referred to Mike as a “middle man” I didn’t mean he was the swing vote at every TC. LOL. Obviously, I know that’s not true. I meant Mike was successful in being able to straddle himself in the middle between the two themes this season: David and Goliath. Anyway, we both seem to agree it could get him to the Finals but will not translate to victory.

I will always contend it continues to be very unfortunate that most players casted must INITIATE lies and backstabbing tactics to compensate for their ineptness. My point is you can still “outwit” with lying and deliberately backstabbing. I’ll end my reply with come comic relief:
Imagine an individual being charged with perjury and the defense lawyer making an opening statement, “But your Honor, my client was not ‘lying’ under oath...he was merely ‘outwitting’” LMAO!

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michel2 3149 desperate attention whore postings
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12-10-18, 10:34 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: My Rankings "
I thought you knew I was a blogger on Rob's site. If you're interested, here's my pages from his archives:

http://robhasawebsite.com/author/mtrudeau/

I played Survivor with some very savvy players, probably much better than your average castaways, yet even there, I saw people do things that got them voted out. With all the paranoia, the lack of sleep and the lack of food, people do things that they wouldn't do othrerwise.

Funny fact, I once played a Survivor on-line game in which Michelle Schubert from Millennials vs GEN X participated.

Like I said, Kara hinted that Dan could have an idol when she approached the Davids so, in that sense, she helped Carl's decision but you wrote:
"Kara was quite successful in getting Dan out."

By the time they went to TC, Kara had changed her mind and was back working with Dan so she didn't want him gone. Saying she was successful is like saying someone who was indirectly responsible for an accident was succesful in getting someone killed. The choice of the word "successful" is completely wrong.

I do agree with you that many players never even tried to make fire, relying on others and that is pathetic but with only 44 minutes shown out of every 3 days of action, WE cannot be sure who practices and who doesn't.

I still maintain that Angelina was a big part of making the F3 alliance happen so she deserves a lot more credit than someone like Will Sims in "Worlds Apart" who just slid into the end game.

The only way someone can make it to the end without lying and backstabbing is by winning all the immunities. That means they didn't "Outwit" they just "Outplayed". In my book, that's not a great winner. If you aren't going to rely on immunity wins, then you have to make many people believe that you are with them but you have to get rid of some of those. Even Tom had to backstab Gregg, Jen and Caryn because he never had any intentions of going to the end with them even if he made them believe they were "Koror Strong".

The Laws of the game of Survivor aren't the same as the Laws of Real Life. Comparing the two may be "comic relief" to you but it's simply not pertinent.


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Aruba 3037 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

12-11-18, 08:15 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: My Rankings "
>"With all the paranoia, the lack of sleep and..."

REALLY??? They sure are sleeping mighty soundly while the proactive players are successfully finding advantages/idols!!

Unless I’m shown or proven otherwise, I will not credit Carl with the game savvy and overall mastery to have figured out Dan had the second HII. As much as you like to mince words like “hint” and “success,” there’s only one way in my mind he could have known Dan had the second HII to write his name on the nullifier—and that was through Kara. That’s a whole lot more than just being “indirectly” responsible in my book.

I acknowledge not EVERY castaway can be shown trying to make fire EVERY minute of the season. Yet, when we’ve witnessed those struggling pathetically to make fire (the #1 essential SURVIVOR discipline) it’s pretty convincing to me a lack of practice or quality time learning that necessary skill.

Yes, I would rank Lady Centaur higher than some slug like Wil for the reasons you stated. But bottom line, players will want to sit next to Sequoia-lina at FTC much more for what she’s done to make herself the perfect goat than any morsel of credit you feel inclined to throw her way.

You say my choice of word “successful” was “all wrong.” That pales by comparison to your choice of word “backstab” when bringing up the greatest winner ever. Westman did more than have Koror BELIEVE they were strong; as the leader and MVP of the team he was most instrumental in MAKING them strong. When that dominance eliminated all the Ulong members and only Koror remained, he (and the remaining castaways) had no choice but to vote out their own. He had every intention in the world to stay true to his F3 alliance made on Day One with Ian and Katie.

Players like Gregg and Ian targeted Tom first. They INITIATED (I guess I needed to underline and put it in boldface this time) the “backstab;” Tom REACTED accordingly. I’m sure nothing would have pleased you more than having Westman just roll over without a reaction or fight so one of your inept castaways could steal his victory...but to his credit, Tom would not let that happen.

I’m baffled by your accusation that Tom backstabbed Jenn. Tom voted to take Jenn to the F3 after Ian (that’s right) INITIATED a strike against Westman. Jenn was eliminated not by any “backstab;” she failed at fire-making. OH, I forgot...I’m sure she practiced a whole lot but Production simply decided not to show it. *snort*

Laws in Survivor and laws in the courtroom do differ because of the punishment or repercussions that may or may not be enforced. OK, let’s get away from “law” and go to ethics and morals. Obviously, morals are subjective and differ from individual to individual. With THIS individual it’s pretty clear-cut and straight-forward.

I will ALWAYS and in ALL INSTANCES covet the values and attributes I try to live my life by and would encourage all parents to raise their children by: Positive work ethic and proactively carving a path for oneself to ensure self-confidence and success. What I do NOT advocate is initiating lies, intentional deception, or other dastardly acts to compensate for lack of those stated positive attributes/morals. But hey, that’s just me...to each their own. Different strokes for different folks.

I have Holiday parties to attend tomorrow and Thursday nights, so will not get to watching this week’s episode until the weekend. Catch you then as we wind down this season.

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michel2 3149 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"

12-11-18, 09:34 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: My Rankings "
Many contestants have commented that they can't really sleep out there. Try sleeping outdoors on bamboo for a month and let me know how you manage.

In his exit interview, Carl said that the Davids thought that the "steal a vote" advantage would be enough to flip the game but Carl said he's the one that said they'd also need his nullifier. The nullifier was indeed needed.

Here we go again on Palau! First, let me draw attention to your own words: "(Tom) had every intention in the world to stay true to his F3 alliance made on Day One with Ian and Katie." Right there, you have proof that Tom was planning on backstabbing Gregg BEFORE Gregg said anything about going after Tom. But there's more: Just like Tom had a gentleman's agreement with Ian to go to the F3 together, the deal with Gregg was for them to go to the Final 5 and then battle it out. AND you'll remember that Gregg was sticking to that deal: When he went on that fateful reward with Jen and Katie, they were still going to vote Caryn at F6 and then hoped Katie would join them to boot Tom at F5. Tom backstabbed Gregg and Jenn by getting Caryn on his side and voting Gregg out at F6. Then, right after promising Caryn safety if she voted with them, he voted her out at F5.

Look, for me those were GOOD moves by Tom, his only strategic ones of the season, so it's strange that you try to deny them!

Sruvivor is not real life. In real life, you constantly try to build team spirit, in Survivor you have to break down the team that you just built. So ethics don't apply to Survivor. It is an amoral game.

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