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Wolfcat 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-17-04, 01:44 PM (EST) "In defense of Wes" First off I really don't think he'll win. More on that later. It seems to me that most negative comments on Wes are based on his entertainment (or lack of) value. His character doesn't stand out. Also, he lost his challenge as a PM. Well, here's my thing. 1. I don't want my managers to be entertaining or fixed on their image. 2. I think a lot of guys were more than happy to see JenM play with there dog. That challenge could have gone any way to either team IMO. Additionally, it was the most we have seen of Wes and I came to a few conclusions that lead me to defend him. a. His ideas were sound (though it's a shame that they couldn't get a better charity - the idea was good). b. He didn't dismiss StacyR's photo idea out of hand for her bad presentation. He dismissed it due to cost. THAT was good decision making. b. Last week He WAS correct in saying that Kelly should have been with the area they were weakest in (marketing) and not trailing Sandy around. She knew what she was doing and didn't need managing. c. He's level headed. Iv'e yet to see him look defeatest, or just not contribute. I HAVE seen him put ideas forth that were rejected but he didn't pout about it (we have seen a lot of that from others) and got on doing what he could. I also didn't see him completely revert to a teenage hormone on the Model task. He smiled and moved on, but didn't go gaga stupid. Of course "Mrs Wes" would be watching too! heh Basically, I think he's one of the VERY FEW who could have done well in season one. He's articulate, well tempered, reasoned, sound business assesment and decisive. He kicks in where needed and does what he can to win. His largest weakness professionally (driving ability with standing) is he doesn't do more to put himself out front. Again, I can see that as a negative too. I have to think about last seasons winner, Bill. Wes shows many similar qualities other than he doesn't fight as hard. Bill's one clear example of difference was in the Boardroom when Kwame's education was noted by DT and Bill was VERY outspoken to say he felt HIS own ed was at least as good if not superior! I just havent seen that fearlessness in Wes. However, again, his temperment seems by far the most well managed of anyone. More similar to Kwame's, but I didn't see Wes get run over in his task as I did see Kwame in both times he was PM last season. That again leads to his management skill's I feel are under rated. As close to apples to apples as I can give here. Remeber Omorosa completely destroyed Kwame's chances in his PM (final task)? Remeber what a PAIN in the rear StacyR was in the Dog wash task. The difference was Kwame went operationally dead, but Wes "handled" the little lawyer as well as any "laywer" could "handle" anyone. Again, he didn't make it personal and that probably saved him in the Boardroom. He explained it was not personal but due to cost. The "Board" all had to acknowledge that was a fair reason and why it turned on to Stacy's inability to "sell" the idea better. Like I said, I doubt he'll be in the final two (I could be wrong). The show is for entertainment first and formost. Wes is a manager, not and entertainer. I'm Wolfcat and I appove this message.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: In defense of Wes madkata 11-17-04 1    RE: In defense of Wes lrlr1 11-18-04 2        RE: In defense of Wes lrlr1 11-19-04 10  RE: In defense of Wes speardefense33 11-18-04 3  Why I don't like Wes djandy 11-18-04 4    Catch Me If You Can, Part 2 Olympic 11-18-04 5        RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2 Wolfcat 11-18-04 6            RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2 speardefense33 11-18-04 7                RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2 kindergentler 11-19-04 8                    Wes was cool Olympic 11-19-04 11            RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2 lrlr1 11-19-04 9  Evem if Wes was a great leader and ... Oscirus 11-19-04 12    RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader ... Wolfcat 11-19-04 13        RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader ... Olympic 11-19-04 14            RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader ... ginger 11-19-04 15                RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader ... Ricky 11-19-04 17            RE: Even if Wes was a great leader ... Oscirus 11-19-04 16                RE: Even if Wes was a great leader ... Olympic 11-19-04 18                    RE: Even if Wes was a great leader ... Oscirus 11-19-04 19                        RE: Even if Wes was a great leader ... Olympic 11-19-04 20  RE: In defense of Wes Kelly_Smith 11-19-04 21    RE: In defense of Wes RangeRover 11-19-04 22

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madkata 54 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-17-04, 11:09 PM (EST) 1. "RE: In defense of Wes" I completely agree with you -- Wes is really underrated. He's the most level-headed of the bunch (except when driving... the guy looked just a tad bit silly -- over-tired perhaps?). He's good interpersonally and I'm hoping he'll get the chance to really step up. I'm not sure he'll win, but that doesn't mean I don't want him to! I think he'd be a great employee for Mr. Trump and a fine manager of an area that's not all glitz and glamour (like what he does now). Go Wes!   Top

lrlr1 512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-18-04, 12:07 PM (EST) 2. "RE: In defense of Wes" Wes is a hack and he'll never make it to the final 2   Top

lrlr1 512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-04, 01:29 AM (EST) 10. "RE: In defense of Wes" >Wes is a hack and he'll >never make it to the >final 2 Told you Wes was a hack!   Top

speardefense33 76 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-18-04, 01:27 PM (EST) 3. "RE: In defense of Wes" There's a fine line between under-the-radar and just plain absent. Wes does not take a leadership role and doesn't step up. He was extremely reckless last week with the truck and was downright giggly about it. I wanted to backhand him, chuckling about his wreck like a 16-year old girl. If you want to compare him to anyone from last year, I'd say Ereka. Just kind of there, semi-annoying and doesn't do anything memorable.   Top

djandy 1711 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 11-18-04, 02:42 PM (EST) 4. "Why I don't like Wes" LAST EDITED ON 11-18-04 AT 03:08 PM (EST) I don't like Wes because he's smirky and cocky (without reason to be). In the first episode he toasted everybody by drinking out of the champagne bottle which was uncouth and rude. In the ice cream episode he was trying to sell to vendors on the phone, and he wasn't getting anywhere. Then when someone couldn't meet until tomorrow and the team had to point out to him that that wouldn't do them any good, he just hang up on the vendor in the middle of the call. How hard would it have been to take 5 seconds to graciously wrap up the call and thank them for their time? The one time Wes was PM he did not do a good job as a leader. He was so set on using a charity (because that had won for them once before) that his team couldn't get set up until after the peak dog grooming hours were over. This shows a lack of organization and leadership, and an inability to react to changing circumstances. Another example of Wes using yesterday's ideas for today's challenges was in Wes's failed pricing in the fashion challenge. Since they thought that increasing the pricing won the QVC challenge for them, Wes decided to do it again and overpriced their women's fashions. But Wes failed to take into account one of the basic rules of supply and demand: if you increase the price, you reduce the demand (and may very well reduce total sales as well). Wes also showed poor decision making skills in picking his team by keeping Andy over Kevin. If he was so high on Andy, why did he say that he had to babysit Andy and micromanage him the next day in the Boardroom? Wes was also in charge of the marketing campaign last week that left off the phone number of the blast e-mail. Everybody blamed Maria, but Wes was equally in charge and didn't catch it either. Inattention to detail can kill you in business. Wes's reckless driving and accident also showed that he just barrels into something without thinking things through. You'd think that if you weren't used to driving a huge truck in an unfamiliar city that you'd take it slow to make sure you're safe. Instead he just put the pedal to the metal no matter the consequences. He got into a wreck and knocked over the inventory which could have ruined the dresses and ruined the task for Mosaic. Yet another incidence of bad decision making. Other than that, he really hasn't contributed to his team in any way. He's been invisible and UTR. He doesn't come up with creative ideas like Andy, and he's not a really hard worker. The only time we've really seen him is making mistakes: inability to sell, inability to lead, inability to make good decisions, inability to use new ideas in changing times, ignorance of basic economics principles, and inattention to detail. Wes is my 2nd least favorite candidate (behind Maria) for all of the above reasons. djandy S8 ABC Red Ink Champ, S7 ABPABC Red Ink Champ, CMY FOMO Red Ink Champ   Top

Olympic 168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-18-04, 04:48 PM (EST) 5. "Catch Me If You Can, Part 2" If there's a sequel to the movie "Catch Me If You Can", then Wes would be the perfect choice for the leading role. I just think Wes does an excellent job making us believe that he is careless when in doubt that he is deliberately making a few of those mistakes. If Wes was given the responsibility to do the e-mail and somehow forgot to include the phone number, I'm sure Sandy would have taken that as carelessness instead of sabotage. Immediately after the incident, Sandy would forget about the whole situation and Wes would be forgiven. Wes is a nice person and always has been in peoples' good side. I believe probably only half of what he does is careless, while the other half looks very suspicious.   Top

Wolfcat 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-18-04, 07:10 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2" I Just cant seem to appreciate the "Conspiracy Thery" ideas during this show. Regardless of who. Omorosa was a FREAK, but thats about the closest to sabotaging their own team I've seen in any one. My views on Wes are a Glass 1/2 full vs 1/2 empty approach and could be wrong. I only have the viewed content of the episodes to go by like everyone. My point is not to change anyones mind about him, but to offer some different viewpoints. I appreciate the points others have made, especially JDandy. I'm Wolfcat... yada yada yada....   Top

speardefense33 76 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-18-04, 07:25 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2" Well personally, I just wanted to thank you for presenting your points calmly and intelligently and more importantly, not flipping out when others disagree with you. That's very important and extremely rare around here. That being said, no, Wes isn't a bad or negative character or worker, that's the thing, he's just nothing. He's not good, he's not bad, he's just nothing. Some take a glass half-full approach with Wes, some take a glass half-empty approach with Wes, I say there's nothing in the damned glass to take any approach on Wes with.   Top

kindergentler 74 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-19-04, 00:26 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2" wes is a wuss. He got punked.   Top

Olympic 168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-04, 01:47 AM (EST) 11. "Wes was cool" Maria screwed up Wes's photo-shoot of the levi-jean. For her to say to Wes,"I understand...I understand...I understand...Do not stand in front of my freakin face!....BACK-OFF!...I understand!"...that was the beginning of the end. Andy told Wes that you're the PM and you got to take over, but Wes being a nice guy hesitated too long and lost control. After the photo-shoot, Sandy took charge and called Maria a "Controlled Freak" which sums up everyones notion of Maria. Maria didn't want them to see the layout. Maria saying,"I'm constantly reminded that I don't have friends."...that was sad for me to hear as she cried somewhat. She apologize to Sandy. During their presentation, Maria just couldn't pull herself together and delivered poorly. In the boardroom, I just want to know if Trump broke protocal again by firing both of them? I'll take back what I said about Wes. He was rarely in the scene and when we do see him it was usually something he's doing wrong or careless. He may have sabotage a little, but overall, he was just being careless.   Top

lrlr1 512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-19-04, 01:22 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Catch Me If You Can, Part 2" >I Just cant seem to appreciate >the "Conspiracy Thery" ideas during >this show. Regardless of who. >Omorosa was a FREAK, but >thats about the closest to >sabotaging their own team I've >seen in any one. What the heck does this mean.... or have to do with this Season?   Top

Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 11-19-04, 08:34 AM (EST) 12. "Evem if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " he should have been fired for one reason: Hes the nimrod who gave up both Kevin and Kelly.   Top

Wolfcat 84 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-19-04, 10:34 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " >he should have been fired for >one reason: Hes the nimrod >who gave up both Kevin >and Kelly. > > OH MY GAWD!!! It was over in the first five minutes for me last night. WHY WHY WHY give up Kelly???? IF he'd sent Maria over to Apex, can you imagine the difference? As I said, I only had the bits and pieces of Wes shown in the series to go by. I STILL think he's smart, articulate and well tempered, BUT MAN, he really needs a montor for a while or at least a strong right hand person in fire for fire control experience. He just didn't get it done! SENDING KELLY AND KEEPING MARIA!!!! What the........???!!! I'm very dissapointed. It's official Wolfcat conceded Wes's election at 9:06 EST Thursday 18 NOV 04   Top

Olympic 168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-04, 11:51 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " >OH MY GAWD!!! > >It was over in the first >five minutes for me last >night. WHY WHY WHY give >up Kelly???? >IF he'd sent Maria over to >Apex, can you imagine the >difference? > >As I said, I only had >the bits and pieces of >Wes shown in the series >to go by. I STILL >think he's smart, articulate and >well tempered, BUT MAN, he >really needs a montor for >a while or at least >a strong right hand person >in fire for fire control >experience. He just didn't get >it done! >SENDING KELLY AND KEEPING MARIA!!!! What >the........???!!! > >I'm very dissapointed. > >It's official >Wolfcat conceded Wes's election at 9:06 >EST Thursday 18 NOV 04 > The show wasn't over when Wes sent Kelly to Apex. Kelly wasn't even a factor last night for Apex therefore if Kelly did stay with Mosaic, he still wouldn't been a factor and they would have lost. Kelly is not a factor period. Mosaic won 3 in a row without Kelly's help. Wes's inability to lead his team was the downfall for Mosaic. Wes was cool, but he needs to do what he suppose to do.   Top

ginger 22512 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-19-04, 11:59 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " And the poor schmo didn't even rate his own cab.   Top

Ricky 1106 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 11-19-04, 12:22 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Evem if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " >>And the poor schmo didn't even rate his own cab. LOL. Yes!! That was the most amusing part of the show.   Top

Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 11-19-04, 12:02 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Even if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " Kelly might not have affected Apex last night but Maria sure as hell did serious damage to the mosaic task last night. So his choosing to send Kelly over Maria did indeed lose the game for him.   Top

Olympic 168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-04, 12:36 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Even if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " >Kelly might not have affected Apex >last night but Maria sure >as hell did serious damage >to the mosaic task last >night. So his choosing to >send Kelly over Maria did >indeed lose the game for >him. not necessarily. Wes should have easily contain Maria. I'm sure Sandy and Andy would have no problem containing Maria and they would have probably won. Remember, Maria wanted to sabotage Andy's project in episode 8 , but Andy who was PM said,"no" to Maria." Maria in episode 10 almost sabotage the e-mail by removing the phone number, but Sandy caught Maria red-handed and Sandy was able to include the phone numbers just in time. Sandy and Andy are great examples of people who can resist Maria and win. Wes made zero effort to contain Maria and therefore Wes was unable to do what he was suppose to do.   Top

Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 11-19-04, 12:45 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Even if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " True but the fact of the matter is that If he would have sent Maria over to Apex. Maria's abrasiveness wouldn't have been an issue.   Top

Olympic 168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-04, 01:16 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Even if Wes was a great leader and they failed this task " >True but the fact of the >matter is that If he >would have sent Maria over >to Apex. Maria's abrasiveness wouldn't >have been an issue. > but Maria's abrasiveness wouldn't have been an issue if Wes contain Maria, but since Wes made zero effort to contain her, then that became an issue that should have easily been a non-issue. The REAL issue was that Wes did nothing to contain Maria and he should have learn from Sandy and Andy from the previous task how to contain Maria. Obviously, Wes is not learning from the previous task. If Andy and Sandy could contain Maria and still win, why can't Wes? For Andy and Sandy, Maria's abrasiveness was a very small issue that was easily dealt.   Top

Kelly_Smith 169 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-19-04, 01:23 PM (EST) 21. "RE: In defense of Wes" Wes seems like a nice guy but he was very weak in every challenge. And I don't necessarily mean ideas. He's just a little slow and too soft sometimes. He shoulda been a lot stronger with Maria this week and instead he stood back and kept quiet. I was very surprised by that but he's just a wuss it seems.   Top

RangeRover 262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 11-19-04, 01:48 PM (EST) 22. "RE: In defense of Wes" I always thought of Wes as a useless tool and he pretty much validated that last night as he sat back and watched the catfight. Intervention is not just applicable to addicts. He could of done something instead of sat back and watched. Maybe he thought they were going to go at like the Bud girls or something.. I have no idea. But evenso... the guy deserved HIS OWN CAB!! He redeemed himself when he said that line at the end. Stuck in cab with Maria, her blinking and both their suitcases!!! Nobody deserves that - not even Omarosa.   Top

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