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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Election Day."
Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 08:28 AM (EST)
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"Election Day." |
What I find amusing about our local public referendum: the money spent by some of those trying to stop the minimum wage hike vote from coming out YES, claiming that the answer will increase their expenses to the point where it bankrupts their businesses -- is well into seven digits, which really should have increased their expenses to the point where it bankrupted their businesses.Go figure. Locally, it's all about the state legislature. Christie has the kind of poll lead where the only way he loses is if we move the counting to Florida, so the question is whether it's still going to be a split government: Democrat legislature, Republican executive, which is at least supposed to force some degree of mutual listening. In theory. And not one which operates on the national level.
Going to vote in about ten minutes. And for the record, I am casting YES on the minimum wage hike. Because I am aware that it will in fact cascade a degree of inflation across the board and that increased salary won't buy anything at all --
-- but I'm also aware that inflation was coming anyway, under whatever other excuse could come into existence. If it's inevitable, might as well at least have the very temporary delusion of an improved paycheck. Two hours of being falsely happy. That's worth voting for, right?
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 11:16 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-05-13 AT 11:38 AM (EST)I get the irony of spending more money to defeat the bill than it might cost to pay the increase to the workers, despite the fact that the former is primarily a one-time expense, and the latter is a continuing expense that is very likely the larger bill. And it is an expense that is ultimately paid by you (the general us). Minimum Wage increase. Obviously you do know that these increases are one of the principle reasons why a burger that used to cost 25 cents now costs $4.00? And why a Coke that used to cost 5 cents now costs a buck fifty? And that no matter no matter how much the increase is, or how many time they increase the minimum wage, that it will still be the minimum, and will never more than a barely livable wage? That all other earning levels and costs of living will adjust to reflect this fact? And that the end result is always a wash with respect to helping lower level earners? The concept of a minimum wage job has value in that it offers those that have nothing something. And it offers those entering the work place a place to start. But because of what it is, it will never be a cure for poverty. Inflation may be inevitable in a prospering economy, but adding to it on purpose with no real gain in sight, just to obtain a benevolent moment, is short sighted.
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 11:44 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Election Day." |
Yes, indeed, any increase in the wages paid to a fast food restaurant worker will ultimately be born by the consumer of Big Macs and Diet Cokes with increased prices (or less quantity or quality). It's either that or a decrease in profits for the franchisee and company as a whole.So, being curious, what is the approximate percentage of labor costs in total costs? Typically less than 30%. Okay, so a 10% in wage costs will increase total cost by 2%-3%, which can be quite a squeeze if profit margins are in the single digits. Either that or the price of the $4.90 Big Muck meal just increased to $5.00. Got a dime to spare? But then again, some fast food chains earn well above 10% profit margin. Much of the public debate, however, is focused on raising wages to considerably less than the much-hyped $15 an hour. Wicks-Lim and 99 other economists signed a petition in July to raise the federal minimum wage to $10.50. They say the increase in costs for restaurants would equal about 2.7 percent of sales. Wicks-Lim adds that companies could then make up the difference through price increases (say, a nickel more for a burger), reduced employee turnover, productivity gains, and slower raises for the highest-paid employees. 
And what is the real cost of these people earning low wages? For one, many fast food workers earning these low wages participate in public programs. 
Nearly three-quarters (73 percent) of enrollments in America's major public benefits programs are from working families. But many of them work in jobs that pay wages so low that their paychecks do not generate enough income to provide for life's basic necessities. Low wages paid by employers in the fast-food industry create especially acute problems for the families of workers in this industry. Median pay for core front line fast-food jobs is $8.69 an hour, with many jobs paying at or near the minimum wage. Benefits are also scarce for front line fast-food workers; an estimated 87 percent do not receive health benefits through their employer. The combination of low wages and benefits, often coupled with part-time employment, means that many of the families of fast-food workers must rely on taxpayer-funded safety net programs to make ends meet. So, in reality, you're shelling out more than $4.90 for that cheap Big Muck meal. You're also shelling out money that comes straight out of your paycheck that you never see (assuming you are getting a paycheck) to support low-income workers.
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 01:42 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Election Day." |
Citation, please? Especially the "over and over” part? And raising the minimum wage won't reduce those costs government, because those earners will still be in the lower income level and will still draw those benefits. As demonstrated with past increases in the minimum wage levels, costs and wage scales across the board go up resulting in no real benefit to the earners. The lowering of the value of the dollar absorbs the imagined benefits.I ask because it's totally unrealistic to think that the costs outweigh the benefits in jobs, taxes, and the of all of the ancilliary business that spring up with and support all of the Walmarts. Just the shipping businesses required to keep their shelves filled keeps a huge number people employed (and off the Gov’t dole), and the Walmart brand products that are in themselves minor industries. It's a good investment for the people (thus the government), they gain more than they lose, evidenced by the fact that in most places, Walmart is welcomed with open arms. Mo Walmarts, mo jobs, mo money, mo prosperity.
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 04:38 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Election Day." |
Thanks for the citations.Those articless point out that Walmart workers earn more than the minimum wage, so raising that wouldn't affect their workers on the whole. And their figures don't balance costs with benefits, that is, do they answer the question, "Do the benefits to the taxpayers as a whole outweigh the costs to the taxpayer?" Or "Is it a bottom line good investment?". They didn't even address the benefits of having a large employer selling at low prices to the taxpayer. Walmart is singled out by many who for some reason think their superior business model is evil. The poor Mom and Pops whose inefficiency resulted in low pay and high prices are somehow a better economic idea. I guess it is easy to get emotional about that. Not a good basis for making economic decisions, IMO. Walmart isn't the only company that is lured to a location thru incentives that are costs to the taxpayer. Just about every large company will negociate with localities for those things, and the local with the best offer will get the store/factory/etc. And all low wage workers for that company will be a cost to the government, just as those for Walmart are. How many people would be immediately unemployed and on the Gov't dole in Detroit if the Walmarst suddenly went away? That's a question that is easy to answer in general terms. Which would be a lot.
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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 10:53 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Election Day." |
The point I was making is a typical Walmart cost us $1 million per store and I do believe if they weren't there they would be other places that would be selling the same goods and services for those people. Plus it's been shown that they make more than at Walmart normally before they move into a town from the mom and pop owners. The Mom and Pop store do have higher prices cause they can't buy on a volume discount like Walmart can. It's been documented that some can't even but it at wholesale for the prices they sell for. Walmart has come in and bulldozed towns and left as there are many examples of that for you to look up, read or watch. Last there is no Walmart in the City of Detroit so your last swipe at Detroit is a miss.    
sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman
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PepeLePew13 26138 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 11:13 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Election Day." |
There's plenty of Walmarts in the Detroit area, even if it's not in Detroit proper (been to a couple of them myself in the Livonia area) -- that's quite common for many cities to not have a Walmart in the immediate core of the city, but to have them located in the suburbs.
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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 07:14 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Election Day." |
Correct and the one in Livonia was fought tooth and nail not to be there as was the one in Auburn Hills by me. I was was saying his swipe at Detroit was a miss.I do think in the burbs Walmart don't have the impacts that they have in rural towns that I've seen here in MI. In Houghton it basically shut down the mall up there and dove out many of the downtown business. Yes, people from all over the Keweenaw Peninsula came to it but the people they hired made less than those business driven out of business and those business were not just in Houghton/Hancock area but all up and down the Peninsula. From reading the studies and seeing documentaries on Walmart (and to be fair other big box super stores) these towns had a huge increase in government program use once they move in. Yes, some of the workers (about 300 in a Walmart store) do make more than min wage but even at just above min wage they still get onto, and are encouraged to get on gov programs by management, because they don't work full time or even if they do it still don't pay the bills. I think it's a microcosm of what is happening in the US. We, the people, want things cheap and disposable thus we shop at places like Walmart that import just about everything from 3rd world counties that pay almost nothing, have no environmental controls, etc. Thus manufacturing jobs that pay good wages are leaving here and causing a lot of the issues here in the US on employment, income gaps, greed, education, medical, politics, etc. I have to get ready for work so if you want more of my soap box you'll have to wait. 
sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 09:17 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-13 AT 09:25 AM (EST)Wasn't a swipe at Detroit (unlike your very biased swipes at Walmart). Lots of respect here and sympathy for what their exmayor and the auto business cycles put them thru. And I have ex-auto industry relatives there. I was just trying to use an example that might hit close to home for you. But you avoided my points, which were how many unemployed would be added to the Gov't dole if Walmart left Detroit (make it the metropolitan area of Detroit)? And what is the net effect to the taxpayer, taking into account what you mentioned and the tax revenues that Walmart (and the supporting industries) make possible, and the lessening of cost to the Gov't due to people making a living off gov't largess. And as a ex-employee of a Mom and Pop store, I can tell you that my and my fellow worker's pay was minimum wage, which put it below that of Walmart (according to your citations).
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 11:30 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Election Day." |
Not really. The costs to the taxpayers were reported in terms of dollars. So what were the benefits in terms of dollars including those related to lower unemployment? What were the net results? I can promise you that in the large majority (if not all) of cases, it was a net positive effect for the taxpayer, thus a wise investment for the government. Reporting the costs without noting the benefits is only half the story.There’s no other way to explain why most locales give tax breaks and land use benefits to companies and manufacturers in order to lure them to locate there. As for what individuals were paid, I would contest the assertion that Mom and Pop's paid entry level workers more than Walmart does, based on my personal experience in a Mom and Pop, and your citation of pay at Walmart. Admittedly though, minimum pay at Mom and Pops could vary, but since they are more vulnerable to the vagaries of the market place, I would assert that they are more likely to skimp with the basic worker wages
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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 01:05 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-13 AT 01:06 PM (EST)You are thinking if the people are not working at Walmart they are unemployed. They are not....they work for the mom and pop shops so there is no net effect to compare. The one I'm thinking of had I think 150 people who worked for them plus wholesalers, suppliers, etc. The total would be more than the 300 jobs that an average Walmart employes. Again you need to see the other studies and documentaries that have covered that on Walmart. Why do locals give tax breaks....simple the land right now is taxed at a farm/vacant so even giving them tax breaks they are getting more in most cases. Plus if they don't Walmart will just build it the next City or Township over thus that CVT misses out. But then as Walmart grew other learned that having them there had a negative effect on the local business, wages, employment, etc. and thus why they were fought tooth and nail to not build. Again you are missing the point that mom and pops are locals who own the store and thus pay more cause they feel connected to the community and they put people on full time. In the one Walmart documentary they had a 3 generation grocery store that had 3 stores that they had to shut down due to two Walmarts. They paid better, had better benefits and full time for most of their workers who that was their only job. They could live off of that job only. The kids and grand kids were most of the part time workers. But due to that cost and their cost of the products that they bought they couldn't compete and people went to Walmart to save $2. Even if they cut their wages to minimum wage and drop their benefits they still couldn't compete. So they were forced to close even with big pushes by those in the community to try to "shop" there to keep them open. Now most of their ex-workers are at Walmart part-time, no benefits and either had to get a second job or went on government assistance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jazb24Q2s94 See about the 44 minute mark.
sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 01:47 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Election Day." |
Still looking for the net benefits include tax and lowered unemployment benefits which can be translated into positive results for the tax payer to weigh against the cited negative effects. If all the Walmarts disappeared, there would be immediate jobs for the unemployed? No way Jose. No, there would be a negative effect on the locality until new jobs opened up and who knows how long that would take, or how many would not become reemployed. Again, the auto industry comes to mind - there is a large group of unemployed ex-autoworkers still out of work in spite of the fact that the industry is recovering. Not a perfect analogy, but it is an example of what a whole scale loss of employment can do to a locality, and of the long term effects of that loss. And you are missing the point that in real life, and in general, Mom and Pops do not pay more, they simply can't (in general) afford to. Again, with up close and personal experience I have seen and understand why they can't. I'm not quite gullible enough to be persuaded by that video that Walmart is an evil entity. I'm sure that, like most companies (or like any sort of organization), there are valid criticisms from ex-employees, and I'm sure that Walmart doesn't exist with helping humanity as it's principle goal (in an economic system based on capitalism, who in their right mind would expect that?). But localities don't offer tax benefits and land benefits to lure large employers without reasons that have been generally proven to be valid, or that would cost more than they receive. It's always a risk of some sort for these people when they try and lure large employers to their area that it might not work out the way they think it will, but it seems to pay off, because they keep doing it. Bottom line, you think the minimum wage should be raised for all (including small business, the Mom and Pops too) because you disapprove of the way Walmart does business? If so, don't you see that that cost increase would be passed onto everyone, including the minimum wage earners, and that the effect would not help those workers one bit?
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HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 04:56 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Election Day." |
Your autoworkers is apples and oranges that is true cause if all the Walmart went bye bye people would still need a place to go to buy food and clothes vs. you could import (as we do) car and trucks to buy. All the stuff maybe imported but you still need a store to go and get it. If you made your example all the car dealerships then it might be more in the same ball park but still in way way left field.One's one time experience does not out way the data that is out there that you are choosing to not look at. Keep your head in the sand all you want kid but it is what it is. We have had some long discussions on Walmart on here so you can go and look them up if you want for even more info. Please note that I said in my post that to be fair it's almost all big box stores that do this and thus it's why the US is falling in the world. Walmart is just the one everyone does their study on due to the business policies and how the operate. I'm in government and see up close why tax benefits and land benefits get handed out so if you want me to trust you on your one time experience then trust me on my many years of experience. It's taxes and jobs mainly (which every politician thinks will be new which is a lie in most cases) and a few other things like relationships, donations, etc. Last I never said anything about the minimum wage but my first post was the cost of each Walmart stores to all of us. Yes, I do agree that the cost increase of labor would be passed on but it's not as big as people think as Cahaya first stated thus not the sky is falling chicken little that people opposing it dance they do.
sig Syren, bouncy by IceCat, bobble head by Tribephyl, and snoglobe by agman
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 09:27 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Election Day." |
So you choose to ignore a real life example when it contradicts your theory (half baked IMO), and you accuse me of head in the sand? Find a mirror.Yeah, my analogy wasn't perfect (as I said), but it did serve the serve to support the point I was making (as I also said).
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 02:43 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-13 AT 03:27 PM (EST)No mirrors in your house, obviously. The personal experience is real and is directly applicable, and is representative. Sorry, but it really is. The analogy is also applicable, as explained. As an example of the effects on a community of massive loss of jobs, and the attendent cost to taxpayers, the recent history of the auto industry in Detroit is an outstanding example. Sorry you can't see it.
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foonermints 14531 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 02:02 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Election Day." |
Thank you UC Berkeley!
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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 01:43 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: So Basically" |
Keep a stack of those in the bathroom.
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 03:42 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Sadly" |
So whatcha sayin' is, Obama isn't Charmin?
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 05:23 PM (EST)
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12. "NYC Mayoral" |
Meanwhile, in the (until Congress gets off its collective #@@) 51th state, it turns out that as a student in 1983, the man who will most likely be mayor toured Russia on a student visa. The Post referenced Reagan and the Evil Empire, stuck the old red flag on the front cover with the next mayor's face added on, then decided to see just how far they could go with the story without actually calling him a Commie and asking Senator McCarthy for additional investigations.The Post has not had a subtle year. Today, the News countered with a picture of the same man carrying a large bag on his shoulder. Because if you're a career politician, heading out to do your own laundry is a crime which far exceeds touring the Evil Empire, right? Clearly a sign that he intends to bleach and whitewash the city.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 06:10 PM (EST)
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27. " Mayoral results." |
*takes long, slow look at voting percentages*I can't decide if the city is that sick of Republicans or just that fed up with Michael "What do you mean, you won't let me amend it for a fourth term?" Bloomberg, who will now try to bankrupt the boroughs on his way out in revenge for a multi-million middle finger salute.
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PepeLePew13 26138 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 08:36 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-05-13 AT 08:38 PM (EST)Too bad it isn't Election Day up here for another 11 months or so. The mayor of the big city near us came out today and admitted to smoking crack cocaine while on drinking binges and blamed it on the media for "not asking the right questions" when it was brought up that he denied doing so last May. Then he called a news conference this afternoon and apologized while not really apologizing for anything and saying it's back to work as usual and if the voters don't like it, they can vote him out in October of next year. http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/world/americas/canada-toronto-mayor-crack/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
ETA: Quite a history here... http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/rob-ford-timeline/
I think the people of Toronto were smoking crack themselves on the day they voted Ford into office.
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IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 08:53 AM (EST)
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18. "... and you just know" |
... that the smouldering hatred that the entire rest of the country has for the city of Toronto just got a little more deliciously schadenfröhlich.
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ARnutz 13937 desperate attention whore postings
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11-05-13, 09:53 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-05-13 AT 10:36 PM (EST)Not sure which ads you got in your area, but in my neck of the woods, I got the sob story from the boardwalk business owner about how after Sandy, and then the fire, he couldn't afford a minimum wage hike for his employees! I say 2 things: 1. Most of the employees of his and other Seaside Heights businesses are paid under the table and likely don't have green cards. (Basically, many of them don't speak English!) and, more importantly... 2. How many employees does he have if he already lost everything? Twice?  I voted YES to increase the minimum wage! etf: typo!
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 06:16 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Election Day." |
Gosh, maybe we should have put in a 'just in case you get hit by a hurricane and fire in one year' exception. Because we all know that happens all the time, or it will as soon as that exception goes in and business owners use the prospective savings to rent wind machines.At any rate, the minimum wage hike passed, with future increases automatically tied to the cost of living. The other public referendum -- allowing veterans to get some of the cash from bingo game revenues -- also went through. The counter-ads on that second one must have been fascinating.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 11:13 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-13 AT 01:38 PM (EST)Interesting results. Just right of center Republican Christie sailed to an easy victory in a blue state, while White House Democrat McAuliffe numerically defeated conservative wing Republican Cuccinelli in Virginia. Look at the map though. http://www.politico.com/2013-election/results/governor/virginia/ The cries of "not conservative enough" and so on have probably already begun as battleground Virginia gears up for next year's US Senate contest. New York City goes for a Democrat mayor for the first time decades. Did Wall Street just not turn out to vote? Or has Wall Street lost that much cred?
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-06-13, 06:09 PM (EST)
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26. "Jersey results." |
Christie ran away with it -- but the Democrats still control the legislature. So our own compromise government continues, and Christie used his victory speech to take a shot at Congress, noting that it's been more or less sort of sometimes in a dim light working here, so what's wrong with you bozos?The Star-Ledger put an asterisk next to 'four more years'. It's not that we're expecting him to be caught in a crack house any time soon: it's just that 2016 is looking -- interesting.
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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 09:25 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: Jersey results." |
The Star-Ledger put an asterisk next to 'four more years'I'd be interested in your opinion on this. Hate to see him go, but wish him well? Glad to get rid of him? Think he could handle the job? Basically, any local opinion on the man would be appreciated. 
surfkitten siggie and board shop 2007
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 03:13 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Jersey results." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-13 AT 05:03 PM (EST)I'd be interested in your opinion on this. ...oh, thank you. It has been a completely miserable shin-kicker of a day and I truly needed that laugh. But let's pretend you were serious for a second, because it's even funnier that way. As far as your own party goes, I already know what the battle cry will be, and it's the one Dabo provided above: Not Conservative Enough. The Tea Party will declare him RINO, and they'll have company. His surrender on marriage equality will do him no favors. He's negotiated here and there with the legislature: that wins him calls of 'traitor!', although not as much as his open thanks to the President after the hurricane will. Some of his views arguably move towards centrist. Basically, everything I might see as a positive will become a negative in any and all debates and ads. (But then, we all know how corrupt and America-hating I am.) In order to 'balance' him out and keep appealing to the fringe, the VP would have to be Cruz. And there goes my vote -- possibly all the way to Canada... As far as the run goes, public image is a problem. Appearance can be too much in politics. You can make jokes about how he fits so well in NJ because this is the only state where he looks like the guy in charge: quasi-Mafia in a sort of decent suit. And guess what? There's a tiny bit of truth in that. But get him out of the state and he's not exactly a glamour candidate. He'll be stereotyped. A lot. The political cartoonists are dying to get ahold of him, and so are the ad composers for every opponent. Handle the job? He wants to give off the appearance of a straight shooter with very little filter between mouth and brain, along with something of a temper. (In addition to his numerous YouTube appearances, the Christie-curious should track down his radio shows on NJ 101.5, also known as 'all the traffic news you need, two hours after you needed it.') In the best view, that gets you Theodore Roosevelt II. In the worst, he's a diplomatic crisis in the perpetual middle of happening. But that's the part of the job I'd be most worried about for him. With domestic issues, I believe portions of the country would understand him -- eventually. If he got in. And I do think he could manage that part about as well as most candidates. My feeling on his performance as governor... There are some areas where he's failed. A number of those are fiscal. Ask a state resident about property tax -- from a distance. His education stance and battles against teachers would be deadly on a national scale. Job growth is a tricky issue as well. However, he's proven he can handle a crisis situation to a large degree, and do so better than at least one who had the White House already. He has backed off after reading the tides -- as above, something which will be used against him. He at least gives the appearance of pretending to listen now and again. And gawds help us, he has charisma. It's an odd sort of charisma and maybe you do need extended exposure to him before it's picked up -- but at this point, even the illusion of saying what you mean combined with, if not total sanity, an insistence on at least running thought instead of dogma now and again, is downright refreshing in a Republican. He is, in many ways, a jerk. However, for a good part of the state -- and that includes a number of Democrats who jumped the line on this one vote -- he has become our jerk, who speaks very loudly and carries two sticks. I don't know if I'd hate to see him go, as he and I still have many contention points. I'd have to wish him well, for whatever that's worth. If paired with a formidable foreign policy adviser, boosted by the strongest diplomatic core in generations, and equipped with a seven-second delay button, I think he might make an interesting President. I just don't know if he can survive his own party.
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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 03:55 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Jersey results." |
Funny or not, I was completely serious. I wasn't thinking about how Republicans would treat him on a national scale. What I wanted was your personal opinion of him as a governor and a leader. Positives and negatives, from your point of view. I think I got some of that opinion in there, but I'm not sure. I'll have to read it again a couple more times.Also, sorry to hear you are having a bad day.
surfkitten siggie and board shop 2007 NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks... GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine. (signed) G. Washington
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 11:09 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Jersey results." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-13 AT 11:16 AM (EST)You ask a reasonable question, and I wish I could give you a clear yes or no answer. In a national election today I think Christie would poll very well, for a number of reasons. For one thing, even for a conservative (yes he is, let us make no mistake about that), he is not an irrational ideolog. He is a pragmatic roll up the sleeves and let's get stuff done guy, and that is very attractive in today's national climate. He is also a realist who knows which fights to fight and which to skip. He's not going to get bogged down in insane sodomy laws like that dumdum in Virginia. But 2016 is going to be a free-for-all, both parties will have whole slates of contendors turning out making presidential bids, attracting those cross-over voters to win the nomination is going to be tough. Personally, I would be willing to cross lines and vote for the guy to win the primary where I live, because liberal as I am I am pretty fed up with most Democrats as well -- if he still would have a numerical chance. It would, of course, mean giving up my chance to decide things in local elections which basically get decided in the primaries, but whatever. Anyway, the 2014 elections will set the course for 2016. The Tea Party candidates will either abysmally fail next year or not. Any other political movement would have received the last nail in the coffin after shutting down the government with no road to victory, but these persistant ideologs don't know when to throw in the towel.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-13, 07:48 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: Jersey results." |
I am one who at this time would cross the primary line to vote for Cristie, but I do want to see what he does to pander to the far right that generally tends to own the primaries here in the South, first. (assuming at that time my vote would mean anything anyway given how late our primary is, and if my vote would matter in the local races on the Dem side)There are a number of people where I either liked what I had heard before the presidential run or was neutral about them until they started campaigning in this neck of the woods. I know all candidates pander, but when people have always voted one way and will give all that up for a couple of delegates from South Carolina, how do I really know what they are going to do once they get in office. Who is the real candidate, the more moderate voting record (which may just be what they needed to do to get elected where they are from) or the extreme right version of them. I hear a lot more of the local extremist pandering on the Republican side given where I live than the local extremist pandering in more liberal parts of the country. Not sure what local news to follow for the how far off the deep end the Dem candidates go.
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kidflash212 5051 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-13, 04:18 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Jersey results." |
"Not sure what local news to follow for the how far off the deep end the Dem candidates go."You could try NY1. Bill DeBlasio did lots of left wing pandering. What I'm scared about is that he might actually believe what he saying.
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Max Headroom 10069 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-13, 09:02 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: Election Day." |
No surprises. Christie rolled a no-name opponent while yet another Tea Party wacko lost in a general election, just like they always do.
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-13, 10:55 AM (EST)
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39. "RE: Election Day." |
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-13 AT 10:55 AM (EST)Tea Party candidates that have won races that the Republicans were expected to lose: one (Ron Johnson, Wisconsin). Tea Party candidates who have lost races that the Republicans were expected to win after winning the Republican nomination in an upset: at least six (Sharron Angle, Nevada; Christine O'Donnell, Delaware; Ken Buck, Colorado; Ken Cuccinelli, Virginia; Todd Akin, Missouri; Richard Mourdock, Indiana). The interesting thing here is that Chris Christie is every bit as conservative as Ken Cuccinelli, despite his reputation as a moderate. Why does he have the reputation as a moderate? Because he's willing to work with Democrats, a process generally known as governing.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-13, 08:09 PM (EST)
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41. "Amusingly" |
 For some reason this cover is a controversy. http://news.msn.com/us/time-magazines-cover-of-nj-governor-raises-outcry First of all, some noted that with Christie's landslide win this week, he is not the proverbial elephant in the room — everyone is well aware of his presence. I thought that was what it meant. Plus a correct usage of the Republican animal symbol. And second, wasn't this just a cheap fat joke .. Well, eh, I guess I can understand why some people would react that way. Silly though. Time .. explained that the three Christie pieces in the magazine .. are about "Christie's outsized influence in his party and the discomfort he causes some fellow Republicans who consider him, well, the elephant in the room." Christie's spokesman had no comment.
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