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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Everything is propaganda."
Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 10:47 AM (EST)
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"Everything is propaganda." |
After having a very long argument last night which concluded with my being systematically assaulted by a storm of 'God bless you!' substitute curses -- you know: the verbalization of 'you' is consistent with having a vulgal reference for sex preceding it -- I want to pass along the following belief from a member of what I choose to call the Religious Reich, coming soon to a protest line near you. Ready?All works of both fiction and non-fiction should (and indeed, must) be presented with the exact religions of all people involved openly identified for the reader, so as to eliminate the possibility of distorting or contaminating Christian beliefs.
You may be wondering how far this is supposed to go. I'll tell you just how far it's supposed to go. For a novel, every character must have their religion (or lack thereof) indicated in the main text and in a quick-reference index at the very front of the book, so a prospective reader (especially a parent) can browse through the faiths of the fictional before considering the book, just to give them an idea of how offensive it might be. Characters with completely fictional faiths must have all major beliefs of that faith explained in detail. For some books, that'll probably take an extra index. With non-fiction that involves actual people, the religions of all people discussed in the book must be identified in the same fashion. There can be a little bit of leeway here for those long-dead in that it's hard to identify exact sects for certain people and most branches stop existing if you go back far enough, but a general statement must be made for each individual. The religion of the author must be identified on any and all texts. Any and all. Textbooks, pamphlets, essays, letters to the editor -- the works. Office memos were not mentioned, but are hopefully exempt. Again, this is to show any bias/attempts at corruption that might exist. Having to indicate the sexuality of the author and all attendant characters was not mentioned, but that's probably just because I was no longer at the point of trying to reasonably advance the argument. And of course, no author of the true faith would ever object to revealing both their own religion and those of the people they write about, because they have nothing to hide. Anyone holding back the information clearly cannot be trusted enough to have their works in the hands of the innocent. The 'discussion' I was in talked about applying this to text as a first stage. Television would be the second phase. We didn't reach any details, but presumably there could be a new code added to the current one, so we would then have M-14 VSL followed by AJ to indicate the presence of atheists and Judaics. At one point, I did ask why, if she was so worried, she didn't just shop exclusively in Christian bookstores. Since we were still at the point where she thought she had a chance to get through to me, she patiently explained that such was the reason for identifying subsects, so as to be careful -- and in the end, they would all be Christian bookstores... Discuss. On the plus side, I don't have to turn on my air conditioner for the next two weeks. The chill will take at least that long to subside.
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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 10:55 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Wow. The thing is, I can see either a fanatical person of faith pr a fanatical non-believer taking this stance for very similar reasons. I'm still in shock that this person was actually serious. Perhaps there is another country she would be more comfortable in. 
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moonbaby 17120 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:05 AM (EST)
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2. "At first" |
I laughed because I thought you were joking.Now I'm afraid you weren't. 
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:10 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Wow, the lady trying to get Harry Potter banned in Georgia has gotten around to S:SI?You must be so proud, you should have told us you were having a book signing, 
Summertribe and the living is easy!
I do not want to know how the heck you got into this lecture discussion in the first place. May the Flying Spaghetti Monster touch you with His Noodly Appendage and bathe you in His Sauce forever,
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:15 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-30-07 AT 11:15 AM (EST)I do not want to know how the heck you got into this lecture discussion in the first place. Reading a book she didn't approve of in public. When did you ever get to Yanini?
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 12:07 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Add me to the 'not surprised' camp. Imagine the culture shock at first, though, after moving back here to the States after living overseas for 20 years. Things have changed, perhaps imperceptibly day by day, but so much more obviously after two decades.I'm also a 'head of household', not by choice, but because with an alien wife within a certain category, Uncle Sam says I am on Form 1040. Now, there's an argument I don't even want to delve into.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 02:59 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
More in the category of the Pottah Harria. (The main problem with the Kama Sutra is that if you've got a definitive edition with helpful illustrations, it winds up weighing about forty pounds.)i'm in a raging debate over 'head of household'
Oh, that one's easy! Just tell them you should never win it until and unless the alternative is going on the block yourself, because all it really does is encourage people to seek vengeance against you! Geez. Have they watched the show?
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:28 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Oh, I poked around S:SI a bit.Not nearly enough, and it is on my list of things I intend to get around to someday.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-31-07, 07:40 AM (EST)
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48. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Come to think of it, I did identify the general faiths of a few characters and the specific sects of others, so I'm already heading towards compliance. Wheee!Good thing she wasn't blonde or it would have been a total Connie Moment.
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dragonflies 8051 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:15 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
*boggle*
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:16 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
That's what I was thinking.
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 12:28 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
You see, we're not supposed to think.
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RollDdice 5949 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:18 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Swastika not included. Your goose-stepping mileage may vary.
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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:19 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
At one point, I did ask why, if she was so worried, she ...Thanks for changing the gender to protect my this person's identity. 
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:30 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Ha. Ha. Ha. I want to believe you don't support this particular piece of potential legislation, but I'd be very curious to hear if (and why) you would.
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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:46 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
No, I would not. Because it is stupid.
No offense meant for stupid people.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:57 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Like having something be stupid has kept you from supporting it before.And before you say a word in protest, I know where your Howie sigpic is and I'm not afraid to use it.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 12:28 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Technically, sigpics are made of energy.
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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:28 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
I guess she couldn't figure out what an author was trying to say and assumed nobody else could either. It wasn't Tipper you were talking to was it?OTOH, I hate it when I go along reading some mindless fiction and the author trivializes, bashes, and is openly hostile to my core beliefs. Not that I'm worried about indoctrination, but I probably wouldn't have supported them by buying their book either.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:47 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
But there's already self-entitled watchdog organizations that go around checking out every last form of media and rating them as offensive for content: don't read this book, graphic novel, magazine, much less watch this show, movie, or news channel. Shouldn't the decision to investigate whether something is offensive to your beliefs be a personal one and not imposed on a full scale, especially since others might not share those beliefs?Of course, that last part is the hole my debating partner wanted closed.
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 08:21 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Weird diatribes can be found anywhere:http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?columnist=maisel_ivan&id=2885334 Among those not rallying are many members of the Razorback family in Springdale, just north of campus and home of the 2005 state champion Springdale Bulldogs. The defections of Mustain, Williams and their high school coach, Malzahn, raised doubts about Nutt in his backyard, the burgeoning economic base in a state where power always radiated from Little Rock at its center. Northwest Arkansas includes the headquarters of Wal-Mart, Tyson Foods and J.B. Hunt Transport as well as the University of Arkansas campus. The rise of Springdale High as a state power mirrored the region's increased clout. When Malzahn brought his no-huddle offense to Arkansas and Mustain signed, too, their fans thought their storybook rise would continue. But the leap from Friday night to Saturday is always wider than it appears on signing day. The number of coaches and quarterbacks who can make that leap in their first year is at least two fewer than the people of Springdale believed. The Springdale fans blamed Nutt.... Not long after the "Springdale three" left, a self-described supporter of Arkansas athletics acquired Nutt's cell phone records through a Freedom of Information Act request. Media members across the nation, including this one, received pdf files detailing Nutt's communications. The innuendo came at no extra charge. Nutt's detractors have put him in the impossible position of proving a negative -- he must have cheated on his wife because there is no proof that he did not. It is a maneuver borrowed from national politics, Rovian in style and execution. Karl Rove, the chief political advisor to President George W. Bush, made his career on attacking an opponent's strength. In the 2004 presidential election, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth eviscerated Sen. John Kerry's stature as a war hero. Kerry's candidacy never recovered. Rove had no visible affiliation with the Swift Boat Veterans, except that a tactic he made famous benefited his candidate. Three years later, the tactic has been imported to Arkansas and used against Nutt. Among the information made public: the fact Nutt had exchanged 1,063 text messages from Nov. 30 to Jan. 11 with Donna Bragg, a local TV news anchor. So, in this article on the head football coach at Arkansas, we're treated to an anti-Rove and pro-Kerry diatribe for free. I'm still trying to figure out how revealing the fact that the coach exchanged 1,063 text messages in two months with an attractive female news anchor is "attacking an opponent's strength."
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smokeysmom 184 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:30 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Wow.Props to you for enduring a long argument with this person, I'd probably have been getting the curse-toned God Bless Yous before being able to learn the gory details, and I appreciate your patience and your post. (Though I also feel cold, very cold...) Did you get a chance to ask if fictional "non-human" characters would also have to wear a Star, Pink Triangle etc.? I'm not sure what sect Shrek is from, or for that matter Bugs Bunny (though he does seem partial to Bach). As a German person whose parents lived through WWII, I have to temper my nervous desire to make fun of this (I sometimes laugh or act inappropriately when shocked or upset). My parents told me that the power of propaganda and blame to influence their families, their neighbors, the whole country was insidiously strong. They said even when Germans KNEW better, the messages were so cleverly packaged that they could understand how people were sucked in. One of the many things they told me about was Hitler's "a VW in every driveway" plan. They explained that they had just come out of WWI and a Depression (earlier than the US one) that left Germans crushed -- starving and desperate. (My mom learned how to gather non-poisonous mushrooms in order to survive, neighbors died from incorrect i.d.'ing.) So the promise of a car was unbelievably appealing. If it meant that a few neighbors had to be singled out and have their religion identified (this was before the killing started)... well... it was a car after all. I do have a feeling, and it may be totally unrealistic -- but hey, I'm a German immigrant so I get to say it -- that we in the US are not as unquestioning of authority, etc. as Germans are (even to this day) and that there would be enough outrage to prevent something like this. Then again, I didn't see "Intelligent" Design coming either. As a total babe-in-the-woods noobie (lurking for about a year) I'm probably treading on thin ice here -- but I'm just going to say it: The oldest, best, and possibly only way to combat this kind of stupidity is education. Yes, that's right -- stupidity. I don't think Conservative Christians are automatically stupid, but the one you talked to and the ones who dreamt this up are. Their children may not benefit from a mind-expanding education, but as a society we should make sure that the majority of our children do. Of course, this will have to be applied to TV -- because I'm sure this audience isn't doing a lot of reading. Meow.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:42 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Did you get a chance to ask if fictional "non-human" characters would also have to wear a Star, Pink Triangle etc.? I'm not sure what sect Shrek is from, or for that matter Bugs Bunny (though he does seem partial to Bach).No, but I was wondering about Bugs myself after the argument ended, and I had no idea how she'd want Watership Down explained... American culture has always had some undercurrent of resentment against those who question authority, growing stronger at some times than others. Right now, it's really strong.
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:42 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
They said even when Germans KNEW better, the messages were so cleverly packaged that they could understand how people were sucked in. *Nods* I read a book about how the thought process/propaganda was used to get the medical profession on board with developing better ways to kill people. The way the history and philosophy of how they got there was well written. As I was reading it was kinda shocking just how logical and reasonable things sounded before I remembered just where those logical and reasonable assumptions led to. You start with societies are like organisms which have interconnected parts and the health of one part effects the health of the whole (which isn't that bad) and pretty quickly you get to well if you have to amputate a leg when it has gangrene so the patient doesn't die and use the same analogy to the organism of society...
Summertribe and the living is easy!
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Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:56 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
YIKES!That whole what makes us good humans is that we take care of the poor and disadvantaged thingy keeps getting in the way. Just can't get to the just let the lions kill the weak as long as I get to breed another day mentality.
Summertribe and the living is easy!
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smokeysmom 184 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:56 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Estee -- I know what you mean, it seems that the attack on the Trade Center and subsequent "terrorists are everywhere and everyone" furor (as well as the Iraq war to some degree) has led to a certain groupspeak that doesn't allow for questioning authority. It disappoints me greatly, I'm the one who is always telling my family overseas that protest is one of my favorite things about the US. (You do have to see a group of Germans standing rigidly in place as a stream of hundreds of Manhattan pedestrians flows around them against the "Don't Walk "sign! My cousin said: "but, it says don't walk"...).Snidget -- so, so true -- it's all so well documented and still happening all the time. (Bosnia, Dafur...) It's scary if you take out the eventual result of their "logic", how sensible and sometimes similar to many things going on today the pre-WWII hatred could sound.
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Jep 380 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 11:35 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
I really don't know what to say... All that I can picture myself doing is removing my shoe, holding it by the heal, and *whacking* that person in the forehead.Oh mon dieu... 
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zipperhead 3442 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 12:28 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-30-07 AT 12:28 PM (EST)I would like to see this person apply this to the Bible. Any version. If you can't get God (the author) to put all of His personal beliefs into the appendix, then you couldn't publish the Bible. etfix spelling
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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 03:01 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
How can a bookstore be Christian...?
>Issued by "Q" and RollDdice
Charter Member, April 2001; Club Anti-DAW
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 03:07 PM (EST)
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35. "You're kidding, right?" |
The bookstore must accept Jesus into its shelves as the one true savior. Duh.
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 03:34 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: You're kidding, right?" |
Don't forget the lacy white christening tarp.
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cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 03:57 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: You're kidding, right?" |
But they do accept various denominations...... of ones, fives, tens, twenties and even fifties.
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Lisapooh 12664 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 03:44 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-30-07 AT 03:51 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 05-30-07 AT 03:45 PM (EST) I have a writer that does Christian thrillers in my critique group now. My main problem with him isn't his religious beliefs. it's that his writing is so very very bad.
well, and also his book is set in the porn industry, yet there's no sex. And the girl trapped in porn just dances. And not even nekkid dances. She just gyrates. And she doesn't, you know, fornicate at all. Which is an issue, what with it being porn and all. And the PI investigating these shenanigans is kinda like Opie Taylor, and I think most porn-hunting PIs would be a little bit smarmier than that. This writer is also pretty passive aggressive and a horrible dresser with weird eating habits. But that's neither here nor there.
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smokeysmom 184 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 04:06 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Gyrating? OKBad dressing PI? OK Weird eating habits PI? OK Passive / Aggressive PI? Oh no you dint! the writer (or PI) could be sentenced to one weekend with my MIL (or prolly alot of peoples' MIL's) to take part in the passive/aggressive Olympics.... Hey! it may actually push the writers' Christian Kindness to the limit ... I know it works for me... and for using the word "shenanigans"... love ya.
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mysticwolf 10692 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 06:13 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
I'm impressed. Really. You. Estee. Will actually stop reading what you are reading in order to engage in a discussion over your choice of reading material? And then it turned into a debate?Better than I'd do. If that had happened to me it wouldn't be the air conditioning in my house that was turned off. They would be the ones still wearing a sweater in August.  Tribe sent springtime flowers! blogging's scary
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 06:56 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
I couldn't leave the area just then and it doesn't take much with me for the morbid fascination to kick in. And I did not make her happy with my responses to her proposals. Not in the least. Don't forget, she repeatedly God blessed me. You really have to annoy someone to get that.
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EMTBGRL 2514 desperate attention whore postings
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05-31-07, 00:29 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
>Don't forget, she repeatedly God
>blessed me. You really
>have to annoy someone to
>get that. Or you have to sneeze-- a lot. Maybe her imaginary friends were sneezing, and she thought they were you? just sayin'
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EMTBGRL 2514 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 06:44 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
Authors of reading material offensive---Hmmmm..Time to ask, "Didja find the authors of the books of that particular Bible that yer holdin' to be suspicious characters?" *squinty-eyed* Well? I'm waiting... That's when you say something asinine like, "Ya know, you have an excellent point. Since all the main characters of my Bible at home are Jewish, I will have to go find it, and throw it into the fireplace (or garbage can) immediately! Thanks for doing so much to save me! *squinty-eyed* What do you MEAN the Bible isn't what you are talkin' about? It's a BOOK, ain't it? Or, I like "whack them with your shoe." (at least that made me laugh.) I kept picturing the Diary of Anne Frank as I read your story, Estee. You know, the part where they have all the kids in the classroom throw away books with Jewish authors, and then Jewish characters, and then the SS came to the school to take away the Jewish kids... eerily similar....I wonder if your debate partner has ever read the Diary of Anne Frank? Prolly not. Good time to suggest it, methinks.
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qwertypie 9776 desperate attention whore postings
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05-30-07, 07:11 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Everything is propaganda." |
All I can say is WOW.
I've danced with Tribe! 2007
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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