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pax 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-25-05, 03:18 AM (EST) "Suggested rule change" I've been thinking about a way to change the rules to eliminate the dreadful bunching without taking away the drama from a race to the mat each episode. Seems they could do something along the lines of what the Tour de France bicycle race does: everyone starts each leg at the same time, but the time differences on each leg accumulate during the race -- each week, the team with the overall worst time would be eliminated. That way the really slow teams like Meredith and Gretchen, who barely hang on each leg, would be eliminated earlier, leaving the better racers -- who currently can get bumped off for one mistake in one leg -- still in the running. To ensure there's a good race at the end -- since one team (like Colin and Christie) could dominate and have an insurmountable lead -- this system would only be good 'til the Final Three, when the last teams would start off even again -- the idea being that the top three teams deserve to be there and the real winner should have to prove they deserve it by beating two other good teams.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Suggested rule change Earl Colby Pottinger 05-25-05 1    RE: Suggested rule change pax 05-25-05 2    RE: Suggested rule change beausy 05-26-05 7        RE: Suggested rule change Earl Colby Pottinger 05-27-05 9            RE: Suggested rule change beausy 06-02-05 14    RE: Suggested rule change Earl Colby Pottinger 05-27-05 10  RE: Suggested rule change Cleveland Guy 05-26-05 3    RE: Suggested rule change Earl Colby Pottinger 05-26-05 4        RE: Suggested rule change Cleveland Guy 05-26-05 5  RE: Suggested rule change KObrien_fan 05-26-05 6    RE: Suggested rule change pax 05-27-05 8  RE: Suggested rule change seahorse 05-30-05 11    RE: Suggested rule change pax 06-01-05 12        RE: Suggested rule change Earl Colby Pottinger 06-01-05 13  RE: Suggested rule change drtantalum 06-04-05 15    RE: Suggested rule change Cyndimaus 06-13-05 19  RE: Suggested rule change applejack93 06-06-05 16  RE: Suggested rule change beau_30 06-10-05 17  RE: Suggested rule change RageRacer 06-12-05 18

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Earl Colby Pottinger 2597 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-25-05, 12:14 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Suggested rule change" LAST EDITED ON 05-25-05 AT 12:20 PM (EST) ????? Unless I am mis-read you, you just said "Start everyone at the same time, last to finish the leg is eliminated.", or am I missing something? Bunching is needed in the game to prevent the players spreading out too far for the producers filming the race. Not to mention having a team with a two days' lead would not be any fun to watch. My suggestions: 1) Reduce bunching times: ================= Too often we see teams that even after they get lost arrive at the bunch point hours after the leading teams do, but because of bunching they are now on even footing again. This is bad as it suggests travel skills are not needed or important. Instead of a fixed 12 hour rest period make it 12 hours plus whatever is needed so the last team (last three teams?) to leave will arrive at the bunch point just after it opens *ONLY* if they make no mistakes in thier trip there. Thus bunching will occur but only to teams that can get there on time. Any team with poor map reading, poor driving skills ... etc will find the other teams have already gone thru the task/trip and left them behind. In the case of airports and train stations this tends to break the teams into two bunches. Which as we have seen in TAR7 does not seem to be a major problem. The leading bunch is still racing to get the first place prize. The trailing bunch is fighting to prevent themselves being the last team in. 2) Sign-in List: ================ In TAR6 the use of sign-in lists at bunch points helped to prevent mad scambles that can cause accidents. There have been some close calls at bunching points when they open and there was nothing to order the entry into the bunch point. Additionally, we have already seen teams racing each other to get to the sign-in list first when they see another team appoaching it as-well so we don't lost the racing part, just the mad scamble of all teams running at the same time/space. Any other suggestions?   Top

pax 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-25-05, 09:55 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Suggested rule change" No, what I'm saying is that there really would be two races going on at the same time. There would be a race for each episode in which all teams would start out at the same time -- or very close to it -- and the first team to the mat would get a reward. But the team to be eliminated would be based on combined times for all of the legs to that point. It may sound complicated, but it really isn't, and it actually wouldn't detract from the drama of the eliminations -- in fact, it actually could raise that drama. As an example: Let's say it's the second leg. Team A won the first leg easily but made a goof and finished last by minutes in the second leg. Team B finished next-to-last in both legs. Instead of Team A getting eliminated, Team B -- which barely held on both times -- gets the boot because its overall combined time is the worst. So you get rid of a consistently bad team while allowing a good one to rebound from one mistake. You would still have the race to the mat, but two teams would still have to wait to hear from Phil who actually was going bye-bye. And there would be no need for contrived bunching that really penalizes good teams because the teams would either start each leg at the same time or perhaps 5 or 10 minutes apart.   Top

beausy 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-26-05, 03:54 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Suggested rule change" Man this bunching discussion is stupid. Teams who finish first are rewarded, didn't Rob and Amber win like 5 trips? I agree there should be some sort of staggering based on arrival times, but in the end it can't be that substantial. If it does, one team will get so far ahead they will have to rename the Amazing Race to the Worldwide adventures of "so and so"   Top

Earl Colby Pottinger 2597 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-27-05, 03:43 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Suggested rule change" No, it is not. The suggestions here are not written in stone, people are trying to come up with ideas on how the bunching can be reduced or modified. No-one says there is one solution, we are just batting ideas around to see what may work and to see what problems others may find with them. I don't know if TAR listen here or not, but it is clear that they are open ti ideas about how the game can be improved. The Chip & Kim rule is clearly a good one, it has made little change to the race but does force the players to think about who does what. The same for taking money for the second to last racers. We don't like the begging, but the idea that coming in second to last is a problem makes the race a little more competitive. Massive bunching with *all* teams milling around waiting for the gate/door to open just slows down the game. Note: However, just waiting at the airport without spending time checking of flights is dumb. It seems late arrivals get ahead because they get the latest flight information. If you are stuck at the airport for the next 4-6 hours waiting for your flight, check out the other planes/flights/airlines every hour or so to see if there are any changes. There is nothing dumber than waiting six hours for your flight and while you are sleeping another plane get diverted to your airport that could have cut three hours off your trip.   Top

beausy 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 06-02-05, 12:39 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Suggested rule change" you right about the begging...that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. That has to go-   Top

Earl Colby Pottinger 2597 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-27-05, 03:46 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Suggested rule change" I don't agree that the timing should be like the pitstop. The idea of bunch is to reduce the gaps between the teams so one time can't get days ahead of the others. Additional note on sign-in sheets: If only because it will get rid of some of the dangerous scambling we see sometimes when a location opens. And if a task can only be done one or two at a time, the time to do tasks still spreads people out so the last to arrive is still some time behind the first to arrive. The Rocket Bunge is a good example. I figure it took between three to five minutes per person. The first team to arrive leaves first, the second team to arrive now leaves only five minutes behind the first team, even if they originally were an hour behind, but they still leave BEHIND the first team. By the time you get to the last team they are 30 minutes plus behine the first team so there is a reason to try and get to the bunch point as soon as possible even if you know there is going to be bunching.   Top

Cleveland Guy 153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-26-05, 08:49 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Suggested rule change" I think the idea would be confusing, cause I team could be in 4th, but really in 7th, or in 6th, but really in first. I have suggested before, and I think it has a similiar effect - is that the 12 hours STARTS when the first team arrives. Then can also adjust it to more than 12 hours if needed, but for example, the next leg starts at 6 AM. If team #1 arrives at 5 PM - they have a 13 hour pitstop. If team #2 arrives at 7 PM - they have an 11 hour pitstop. etc.etc. etc. If team #8 arrives at 3 am - the have a 3 hour pitstop, and if a team arrives AFTER 6 AM - they just keep racing. I think it would help cause only the early teams get the extra rest, and you could reduce needless bunching during the legs.   Top

Earl Colby Pottinger 2597 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-26-05, 10:23 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Suggested rule change" I follow your idea, but don't like the fixed 6 am start time. We still could see massive if the next stop takes only an hour to get to but does not open till 12 noon. What I would like to see is the exit time from the pitstop adjusted to take this accounted. Additionally your suggestion could have poor players driving to make up time while having little or no sleep. This would be very dangerous, I believe that is why there is a 12 hour stop in each leg, without it there would players trying to race who had not slept for two, three or more days - major accidents would be sure to happen.   Top

Cleveland Guy 153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-26-05, 01:45 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Suggested rule change" >I follow your idea, but don't >like the fixed 6 am >start time. We still >could see massive if the >next stop takes only an >hour to get to but >does not open till 12 >noon. > >What I would like to see >is the exit time from >the pitstop adjusted to take >this accounted. > >Additionally your suggestion could have poor >players driving to make up >time while having little or >no sleep. This would >be very dangerous, I believe >that is why there is >a 12 hour stop in >each leg, without it there >would players trying to race >who had not slept for >two, three or more days >- major accidents would be >sure to happen. I see your points. I was just using 6 AM as an example - it could actually be a different time for each pit stop - based on the next tasks. So 6 AM the first time, 10 AM the second, 3 PM the third - etc. Also - about teams not sleeping for 2-3 days. First off - who cares about safety - as long as it makes for exciting TV (KIDDING) But more realistically - how often is the 2nd last team (last in a NEL) really 12 hours behind? 4-5 is more realistic most times, enough that the shorter rest will hurt, but not kill.   Top

KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-26-05, 01:51 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Suggested rule change" I like your idea Pax, it makes sense and has merit. If only they would look at it as a possibility... Now taking applications for TAR online season 2 GAME   Top

pax 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-27-05, 00:29 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Suggested rule change" tnx KO; i love the show, but i just don't see how they can really call it a real race anymore with all of the contrived bunching. i feel they can add the drama that they need with just some tweaking.   Top

seahorse 14337 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-30-05, 01:20 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Suggested rule change" I agree that your idea would make for a race where the best racers are ultimately rewarded. But this would make teams like Gretchen and Meredith not have a chance. They would lose time every leg without sgnificant bunching. Handcrafted by RollDdice   Top

pax 56 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 06-01-05, 02:29 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Suggested rule change" Well, I already know what the answer will be for most people, but the question is: Do you want to milk drama from people who have no legitimate chance of winning the race and don't DESERVE to win, or do you run a real race (it is called The Amazing Race, after all) that still can have good drama but doesn't allow bad teams to just limp along? It's gotten to the point where teams EXPECT bunching to help them. would rob and amber (and other teams they convinced to take the same strategy) have taken a four-hour hit at the gross food challenge if it really meant they'd fall behind the leaders for four hours and wouldn't get a chance to catch up at some point because of bunching? what kind of strategy is it to `just not finish last' in a race for $1 million?   Top

Earl Colby Pottinger 2597 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 06-01-05, 07:28 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Suggested rule change" Expecting the bunching is not the problem. Too small a delay (8 hours or more would have been better) or shorter bunching is the answer. If bunching delayed the leading team no more than a hour for example other leading teams would still catchup, but a four hour delay would kill the trailing teams.   Top

drtantalum 36 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 06-04-05, 12:22 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Suggested rule change" I don't mind that idea at all. It would actually even allow for some bunching points and those bunching points may not be nearly as annoying. All I know is that a team that 12 hours behind on the last leg of the race should not be able to win thanks to a stupid bunching point. Heck I'd be satisfied if they kept all those other bunching points but left the final leg as a pure racing leg as it should be. Again not anything against Uchenna and Joyce...I don't mind seeing them win but I don't think they should have been able to.   Top

Cyndimaus 3117 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 06-13-05, 02:34 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Suggested rule change" >Heck I'd be satisfied if they >kept all those other bunching >points but left the final >leg as a pure racing >leg as it should be. I agree with you there. I don't think there should be non-elimation in the final leg either. (have they had that before? I thought once it was down to the final teams they just raced) I was rather surprised to see the non-elim. in the finale.   Top

applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 06-06-05, 02:07 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Suggested rule change" I don't really like that idea, to tell you the truth. Partly because if teams like Meredith and Gretchen, Flo and Zach, Linda and Karen etc. didn't stay in the show would not be anywhere NEAR as interesting. None of these teams were uber-competitive, but the fact is they stayed in and never made a mistake big enough to get them ousted (except for the NE legs - but THAT's a whole different kettle of fish). I think the idea is too complex, I like that a team can survive for ages without ever being top dog, and I like seeing supposedly 'strong' teams fall to supposedly weaker ones (case in point Ray and Deana losing to M+G). Whilst bunching is annoying in that it allows some teams to slip through the cracks, I think the race would lose alot without it. I actually think TAR7 was pretty good with it's bunching - it was nowhere near as excessive as TAR6. The real problem lies in those pesky non-elimination legs.   Top

beau_30 952 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 06-10-05, 01:26 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Suggested rule change" That wouldnt be fear to any of the weaker teams. Like the person above me stated its better to see a stronger team loose to a weaker team. You cant stop bunching. If a person is slow on a roadblock, it will pick up with the bunching. You can't help with airline or train or bus times, but checking would work. Even if they all started at the same time, people could still fall behind, Bunching will happen even if you didnt want it to.   Top

RageRacer 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 06-12-05, 06:40 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Suggested rule change" Having times be done like the Tour de France, I think would be too confusing for many viewers and might take away some of the enjoyment viewers have while watching. But the principles of it are right on, as I have found myself asking myself "How in the blue hell are they (place team here) still in this race?!?!" My suggestion would be as follows: -This would be only for hours of operation situations and not transporation scheduling -If a team arrives ahead of the next team by 3 hours or less, then let the leading team have the amount of time as a lead (e.g. so if the leading team arrives 1 hr ahead, then the lead is 1 hr before the next team is allowed to advance) -Let there be a 3 hour maximum waiting period, so even if a team arrives 6 hrs later, that team gets to go ahead after 3 hrs. This would still allow for bunching (especially early on) among the teams. Note: It doesn't necessarily have to be 3 hour max time, it could be one hour, two hours, or 45 mins, etc. Something producers could determine based on the difficulty of the Road Block that follows the opening of the location. Overall I think this rewards the skilled racers that built a lead (keeping in mind that they can still lose, maintain or increase the lead with their performance in the Road Block). It also keeps bunching among teams and possible drama to the finish.   Top

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