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Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-12, 10:10 AM (EST) "Survivor: Player of the Season" LAST EDITED ON 12-14-12 AT 10:11 AM (EST) Time to vote for your favorite player of the year! Go here to cast your vote. I hope you ALL vote for MALCOLM! PS. I think there is a way to text your vote for player of the year, but I have no idea how to do that. IF anyone else does know, please post. Thanks!   Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Survivor: Player of the Season dabo 12-14-12 1    RE: Survivor: Player of the Season mimo 12-14-12 2  POTY? michel 12-14-12 3    RE: POTY? garyc 12-16-12 4  POTS.... Flowerpower 12-17-12 5    RE: POTS.... nickrobertssurvivor 01-02-13 6        RE: POTS.... michel 01-02-13 7  Denise kingfish 01-03-13 8    RE: Denise byoffer 01-03-13 9    Denise, perfect? michel 01-03-13 10        RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-04-13 11            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-05-13 12                RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-07-13 13                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-07-13 14                        RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-07-13 15                            RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-07-13 16                                RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-07-13 17                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-07-13 18                                RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-07-13 19                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-07-13 20                                RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-08-13 21                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-08-13 26                                        RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-08-13 27                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-09-13 36                                RE: Denise, perfect? kingfish 01-08-13 22                                    RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-08-13 23                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-08-13 24                                        RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-08-13 25                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-08-13 28                                                RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-09-13 29                                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-09-13 30                                                        RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-11-13 40                                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-11-13 41                                                                RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-12-13 42                                                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-15-13 45                                                                        RE: Denise, perfect? dabo 01-17-13 48                                                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-17-13 49                                        RE: Denise, perfect? kingfish 01-09-13 31                                            RE: Denise, perfect? byoffer 01-09-13 32                                                RE: Denise, perfect? kingfish 01-09-13 33                                                    RE: Denise, perfect? byoffer 01-15-13 43                                                        RE: Denise, perfect? kingfish 01-15-13 44                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-09-13 34                                                RE: Denise, perfect? kingfish 01-09-13 35                                                    RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-09-13 37                                                        RE: Denise, perfect? PepeLePew13 01-10-13 38                                                            RE: Denise, perfect? michel 01-10-13 39                                                                here's one for you all krismiss2us 01-16-13 46                                                                    RE: here's one for you all michel 01-16-13 47

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dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-12, 12:16 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Survivor: Player of the Season" Vote Jonathan! Seriously, can someone cast a Jonathan vote for me? I'm disenfranchised here since I don't sprint, tweet or facebook.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

mimo 523 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-14-12, 01:37 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Survivor: Player of the Season" LAST EDITED ON 12-14-12 AT 01:39 PM (EST) Done!! I don't think you need a FB or twitter account to vote. Just sign up at CBS. Looks like you can vote up to 10 times. Penner was a great character this season so happy to vote for him. Edited to fix typo. Doing this from my phone so don't have a good keyboard!!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-12, 06:00 PM (EST) 3. "POTY?" I'm stuck between Angie and Katie! And I can stay here for a while... Ils sont fous, ces Romains! Oh! You said Player! I thought you meant Playmate...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

garyc 118 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-16-12, 00:15 AM (EST) 4. "RE: POTY?" penner for entertainment malcolm for game play   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Flowerpower 7012 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-17-12, 08:06 PM (EST) 5. "POTS...." Lisa? Really?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

nickrobertssurvivor 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 01-02-13, 06:03 PM (EST) 6. "RE: POTS...." wow! what did lisa do on the show? she tried to make two big moves in the game, and failed. the only reason she was still on the show as long as she was, was because she was very beatable. especially in the final 3!!! Way to go fans! Malcolm is better strategically and physically!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-13, 06:48 PM (EST) 7. "RE: POTS...." Welcome aboard! I agree that Malcolm was the better player overall but I can't agree with this: "the only reason she was still on the show as long as she was, was because she was very beatable. especially in the final 3!!!" If that had been the case then Abi would have stayed. Mike and Lisa decided who went and who stayed from F7 on. If they had wanted Penner, Carter, Abi or Malcolm to stay they would have stayed. Mike was also the deciding vote when Artis left.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-03-13, 11:55 AM (EST) 8. "Denise" Sorry FP, can't vote for Malcolm. However, I understand your vote and your hormones, and I hope you can attend the next Survivor function in Fla. and can take him down into the sand. You need look no farther than that muscular mini-mite maven Denise, who understood on day one what it would take for her to win, and laid in a course to that goal that neither miserable weather conditions, nor insects (did I mention the little buzzer named Abi?), nor having to compete against more powerful opponents, nor having to attend each and every TC, nor being the recipient of the ire of island mates, nor the bonding friendships of allies would deflect her from. And topped off with a non-alienating and intelligent final TC speech. Best performance award should go to Denise. I think we might have seen perfection this season. As for eye candy, RC St. Amour. A silent RC St. Amour.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-03-13, 05:27 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Denise" A silent RC St. Amour true dat!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-03-13, 08:29 PM (EST) 10. "Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-03-13 AT 08:30 PM (EST) Hardly. If Mike and Lisa had more jury awareness then she was gone at F5 because she had absolutely no defense, no way out. If Dawson and Katie hadn;t been so hopeless then she doesn't survive the switch to Kalabaw either. Don't get me wrong, she played a good game but hardly perfect. Brian, Tom, Earl, Todd and Kim came much closer. ETA: For the eye candy, RC was more in evidence but Katie was much better looking.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-04-13, 12:40 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Denise, perfect? " If Mike and Lisa had more jury awareness ... But they didn't and so a meaningless dig that basically amounts to an assumption that Denise wouldn't have been able to play through that, except you don't actually know that; we don't know what she might have done had the situation been different. If Dawson and Katie hadn;t been so hopeless ... Again, a meaningless dig. Kalabaw was fractured when Denise joined the tribe and she managed to exploit those divisions; the unknown here being what might have happened had Dana not collapsed -- as the Kalabaw women seemed ready to play the girl-power game, though that was more Dana's thing than Dawson's or Katie's (and I don't believe Denise would have seen that alliance as her best longterm option).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-05-13, 03:30 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-05-13 AT 02:05 PM (EST) Meaningless dig? Absolutely not. It's twelve years of experience watching these stupid players: Abi had much more goat potential than Denise. Even Malcolm was ready to get rid of her. If Skupin, Lisa and Abi decide quietly to eliminate Denise, she goes. Kalabaw was fractured because the women were hopeless. Put just one capable challenge performer and she stays over Denise. It's called tribal loyalty.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 05:24 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Denise exploited the splits in both Kalabaw and Tandang. We've seen umpteen times that tribal loyalty trumps smart gameplay or player weakness, but Denise was still able to find a way to keep herself in the game. That's what a good player does, make herself indispensable to the point where she ought to have been the logical boot but they choose to keep her around longer. And as you said, Skupin and Lisa didn't show strong jury awareness so how can either be considered strong game players then? Denise was the better player of the game in that regard over a delusional in-it-for-himself guy and a constantly wavering and at-odds-with-herself lady. Lest you forget how Skupin was totally in it for himself... http://funny115.com/v1/44.htm   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 08:57 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Denise, perfect? " My point is that Denise and her game weren't perfect as Kingfish claimed. She may have laid a course from day 1 but she was damn lucky that Mike and Lisa were so delusional.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 09:19 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-07-13 AT 09:32 AM (EST) Point is that it's a meaningless dig. Weak players have quite frequently been carried over strong players in the name of tribal or alliance loyalties. Denise was able to defeat this customary way of playing so that makes her a strong and worthy winner in this season. Problem is that you tend to think in terms of how they SHOULD do things but human nature is unpredictable. Abi was the smart play to keep over Denise but everyone talked in-game about how hard it was to tolerate Abi's machinations in the game. We weren't on the island with her for 34 or so days, they were. Not the same approach, no, but it reminds me somewhat of Chris facing the long odds of being up against a group of six women who had stuck together through most of the game as a tribe then after the swap and merge. The women were smarter to get rid of Chris asap but they let him weasel his way in and Chris too kadvantage of where the split was just as Denise did (Pete said Denise figured out where the Tandang split was).   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 01:33 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Point is that in this iteration of the game Denise did what she had to do to in order to survive and prevail in the end. To whatever extent there were things that she did not do, obviously she did not need to do them. To whatever extent she exploited the failings of other players in order to survive and prevail, that's part of the game. If that satisfies someone's definition of a perfect game, that's as reasonable a criteria for a perfect game or a perfect player as anything, if not more reasonable than most.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 02:05 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I don't disagree with what you're saying. I, for one, do not believe there is such a thing as a "perfect" Survivor game as so much depends on tribal dynamics and the luck factor in having a certain immunity challenge or two go a certain way, plus it depends on the mood of the jury. Impossible. When we think of well-managed games such as Kim's in One World or Earl's in Fiji, they were about as perfect as you could get but they still had anxious moments where a mistake or the whims of an alliance partner (i.e. the handling of Kat and Dreamz) could easily have gone a different way. There have been people who played about a perfect game as you could, better than the eventual winner but were simply outnumbered or targeted as a threat. Some need to take the bull by the horns and lead the way to a win (i.e. Rob, Kim) and others sense that it's in their best interests to stay out of the way and let the alphas butt heads in a war of attrition (Sandra epitomized this better than anyone else, also Natalie in letting Russhole run roughshod), and yet others mix in some moves and some let-the-alphas-run-themselves-into-the-ground game play in the same season (this is where I see Denise fitting in). To me, the best winners are the ones who recognize they have to shift alliances or strategies on the fly because of circumstances coming up, and make moves accordingly as it all depends on who they're playing with.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 06:47 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I like the fact that you agree with me that there is no such thing as a perfect game. That's my point!! Chris certainly didn't play a perfect game but I would still rate his game higher than Denise's. Why? Because he made the deals that helped him find those cracks. Remember the F8 IC? Twila stood on the pole as long as she did because she knew Chris would be voted out if Chad won immunity. She trusted Chris because he had made a F2 deal with her. She fought for Chris, making sure Chad would go. Chris also had a F2 deal with Julie so that's why she backed the idea of keeping him over Eliza and why she told him that Eliza was going. It was her way of apologizing for reneging on their deal! Denise didn't make any of those deals. Kent brought her in to the men's alliance because the other women were pathetic. Malcolm made the F6 and F4 deals for her. That was damn lucky. Then, on top of that, we had Skupin and Lisa's fatal miscalculation. In addition, look at how the cracks presented themselves: In the Philippines, everyone knew that Abi and Mike weren't friends. Nothing to do but let him vote against her. In Vanuatu, the split was between Eliza on one side, Scout and Twila on the other. To win, Chris had to get those three to work together. Much harder, much funnier, much more memorable. Leann's elimination was the perfect blindside. Abi's? Absolutely nothing special. Just like Denise's game post-merge. PS. I resent the fact that my opinion has been called meaningless by both you and Dabo. I haven't attacked either of you personally so I'd like to keep it a debate of ideas instead of an argumentum ad hominem.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 10:42 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Your opinion wasn't thought to be meaningless - the fact that the ladies were pathetic is meaningless. Big difference. Like I've said, in most seasons the weak were taken along to the end while the strong were booted. It would have been easy for Kent, et al, to boot Denise first and then take care of the ladies after that, but no, *something* about Denise convinced them that this stranger who is stronger should be kept around as a bigger priority than tribal dynamics which has been the case more often than not. That's why the point about the ladies being pathetic is meaningless. Not "your opinion" ... and you've rejected plenty of my own thoughts (and other people too) over the years so you might want to get off your high horse for a change.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-07-13, 11:46 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Denise, perfect? " How can it ever be meaningless to point out that half the cast was pathetic? It certainly makes Denise's win less impressive. It's the same reason that reduces the value of Brian's win. "Meaningless dig" refers to my motives rather than my argument. I'm not saying this because I dislike Denise so don't assign me a motive that I don't have.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 01:17 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Gosh, I hope I didn't traumatize you. Because I certainly didn't intend to traumatize you. I mean it. Because had I intended to traumatize you, boy oh boy would you ever be traumatized, totally dev-a-state-ed. That's me, I set out to traumatize I don't hold back, I just bring out the big guns and go all out, call out the trauma team to pick up the pieces. But since you misrepresented what I said, allow me to clarify in most certain terms. What I did and do say is that it is meaningless to assess a player's game on the basis of realities which were not a factor in that game. I said that in terms of alternate realities you supposed in regards to certain players in S25 who could have perhaps been better but weren't, but I will further make that in regard to comparing one player in one iteration of the game to other players in other iterations of the game. To put all that in positive terms: The only meaningful way to assess a player's game is to assess it under the conditions in which that game was played, anything else is meaningless. As for your opinion of S25, I know you were considerably less satisfied with the season and the outcome than was I, and I have pretty much left that alone no matter what trash you put out. However, when you take issue with another poster's opinion, when you do so in an argumentative manner inviting argument in return, when the arguments you present are in my opinion preposterously meaningless, and if no one else bothers to call you on it and I feel like doing so, get ready for the paintballs coming your way. All just in good fun, though, paintballs not nukes.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 09:05 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Denise, perfect? " >Gosh, I hope I didn't traumatize >you. Because I certainly >didn't intend to traumatize you. > I mean it. >Because had I intended to >traumatize you, boy oh boy >would you ever be traumatized, >totally dev-a-state-ed. That's me, >I set out to traumatize >I don't hold back, I >just bring out the big >guns and go all out, >call out the trauma team >to pick up the pieces. > Traumatized? By a guy sitting at a computer? Hardly. I've dealt with some of the biggest a-holes over at Sucks. Big guns!! A petard at most. >But since you misrepresented what I >said, allow me to clarify >in most certain terms. > >What I did and do say >is that it is meaningless >to assess a player's game >on the basis of realities >which were not a factor >in that game. The F5 decision was certainly a factor in the game. All Skupin and Lisa had to do was listen the what everyone was saying about Denise's invinciblity and vote her out instead of Abi. An alternate reality would be asking what happens if Dana doesn't quit because that brings in too many variables. But the F5 vote was only between Abi and Denise. 1 variable. Skupin and Lisa didn't even have to tell Abi about it. >I said that in terms of >alternate realities you supposed in >regards to certain players in >S25 who could have perhaps >been better but weren't, but >I will further make that >in regard to comparing one >player in one iteration of >the game to other players >in other iterations of the >game. To put all >that in positive terms: >The only meaningful way to assess >a player's game is to >assess it under the conditions >in which that game was >played, anything else is meaningless. That's exactly what I am doing. In THIS iteration, Denise was damn lucky. >As for your opinion of S25, >I know you were considerably >less satisfied with the season >and the outcome than was >I, and I have pretty >much left that alone no >matter what trash you put >out. See how you misread me: The outcome was the only good thing of the season. The cast and the presentation were awfully boring. >However, when you take issue with >another poster's opinion, when you >do so in an argumentative >manner inviting argument in return, >when the arguments you present >are in my opinion preposterously >meaningless, and if no one >else bothers to call you >on it and I feel >like doing so, get ready >for the paintballs coming your >way. All just in >good fun, though, paintballs not >nukes. Preposterously meaningless?! You can use all the superlatives you want but it makes you sound like Denise's fanboy.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 09:31 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-08-13 AT 09:51 PM (EST) LOL. But I used an emoticon even!! So glad you weren't traumatized, though. Supposing Dana hadn't been injured on day 1 (three players suffered approximately the same injury at the same time, Dana just happened to get the worst of it and wasn't able to play through the pain as did Jeff) and wound up as a quit/medical evacuation is, yes, one form of supposing an alternate reality, just as is supposing various players in a game were better/more savvy/sharper whatever than they actually were. Had Dana not been injured and stayed in the game, perhaps Kalabaw wins that immunity, in which case Abi or RC would have been booted. Abi (the third of the injured) had only Pete for protection (and her HII), and had become the sit-out queen because she was such a challenge liability, whereas RC was a challenge asset -- and basically first chance they had they wanted to resolve the Abi-RC conflict (or at least get it out of camp). But if Kalabaw loses and goes to TC Denise has to decide which Kalabaw faction to back, and while Dana would be a valuable ally, Dawson From Planet Dawson is imperceptible while Katie is a challenge liability, so Denise probably doesn't join the female alliance; and Dawson probably gets the boot simply because she has annoyed Jeffkent way too much. Not that any of this really matters in terms of evaluating the game that was played because, of course, none of it happened that way.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 10:42 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Denise, perfect? " If we only go by what happened then there's only one conclusion: All the winners were perfect, none made a single mistake.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 12:25 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Denise, perfect? " "I like the fact that you agree with me that there is no such thing as a perfect game. That's my point!! So, your point is just semantics? The definition of "perfect"? I would beg to differ, even though admittedly this becomes a subjective discussion. In my subjective opinion, A "Perfect" Survivor performance is one in which there was a winning strategy formulated early on (day one by Denise as far as I could tell), and with no waivering from that strategy. None of the deviations we so frequently see of these people who although sometimes very intelligent often (usually?) allow personal feelings, animosities, friendships, and local conditions to cloud their thinking. How often have we sat at home, watched an episode, and thought "That dummy!", or "<head slap>The rational decision is so clear...", or "What does 'integrity' “(substitute ‘honor’ if you like) “have to do with winning a game?", and watched them make totally irrational decisions? Denise played a perfect game of Survivor, and that has rarely if ever happened before. Hats off, Denise.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 12:57 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-08-13 AT 12:57 PM (EST) I agree that she played about as good a game as you get - thing is, if Abi wasn't so reprehensible then Denise probably doesn't make the end game, which just goes to show that there perhaps is no such thing as a "perfect game" since there's an element of human nature and luck that factors into one's ability to play a perfect game. Ditto, if Tandang went to Tribal Council at some point early in the game, who knows how the game would have unfolded since Lisa would have been the likely early boot and RC would have stayed longer in the game.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 08:39 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Some philosophers say that everything is about semantics! To be honest, part of it is that I feel that nothing is ever perfect. It gives off an air of divity to what is usually just an above average performance. But to address your point, I agree that the best players are those with an overall strategy that gets them to the end. The problem is that everyone does that. Even a dimwit like Dawson had a strategy to get to the end: Stick with Kent and then reveal his bank account. So, what else is needed? The obvious answer is that the player has to adapt to the circumstances and come up with tactics, original if possible, that will help them overcome the difficulties. No doubt, Denise did that pre-merge. Her adaptability and her integration skills were remarkable. The same can not be said of her post merge game. Just a few examples: - She made what could have been a grave error when she voted against Penner. If Jonathan had accepted Lisa's final 3 deal, Denise gets lost in the wash. -She let Malcolm make the decisions for her and if he had won the F4 IC she was dead. - If Skupin and Lisa weren't extremely dumb at F5 and had kept Abi, Denise would have gone to Loser Lodge. Denise benefitted from way too much luck post merge for her game to be considered excellent, let alone "perfect". We have seen many excellent games: Hatch, Tina, Brian, Tom, Danni, Earl, Todd, JT, Rob and Kim. PS. I really appreciate that you kept the argument about the game. Thank you.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 08:56 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Denise, perfect? " If Skupin and Lisa weren't extremely dumb at F5 and had kept Abi, Denise would have gone to Loser Lodge. Actually, Malcolm forced (dictated) the Abi boot by convincing Lisa and Mike he would use his HII for Denise if necessary; it was to his and Denise's benefit to get Abi out of the way at F5. Pretty savvy of Denise to get Malcolm doing her dirty work as long as it was to their mutual benefit.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-13, 11:45 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-08-13 AT 11:52 PM (EST) But Malcolm didn't give his HII to Denise, did he? Since he and Denise were voting against Abi, Mike and Lisa had everything to gain by voting against Denise. Anyway, didn't that come out only in an interview afterwards? Malcolm had just made a F3 deal with Mike and Lisa so I doubt he could have been very convincing in saying he'd save Denise.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 00:24 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Denise, perfect? " http://www.realitytvworld.com/news/exclusive-malcolm-freberg-talks-about-his-time-on-survivor-philippines-%28part-2%29-14209.php -- I honestly believe that if I hadn't said that, they would've gotten rid of Denise right there. If I didn't have the idol, they would've gotten rid of Denise right there, and then they'd get rid of me on this next one and it'd be Lisa, Skupin and Abi at the end -- Point is, he used the power of the idol to control that vote, get the goat out at F5 which he absolutely knew he had to do, thinking he could get Denise out of the way on the next round. What he didn't count on was Denise being able to sway Lisa and Mike because they were more afraid of Malcolm at FTC than of Denise at FTC. These were two sharp players who made it to F4 together by manipulating others when they had to, and then it became a matter of which one could out-manipulate around the other.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 08:32 AM (EST) 30. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I answered too quickly and should have stayed on topic: How is Denise's game improved by pointing out Malcolm's fatal error? Malcolm HAD to know that he was getting to the F3 ONLY by winning F4 IC and HE should have been proposing Denise's elimination. Like I said though: Threat or not, Mike and Lisa had nothing to lose, everything to gain by voting Denise. But, as Abi put it: As for: "Denise being able to sway Lisa and Mike", that is only embellishment. Denise pleaded her case, sure, but she said it herself: You guys decide. Mike and Lisa weren't swayed, they made their stupid decisions all on their own.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-11-13, 02:27 AM (EST) 40. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-11-13 AT 02:50 AM (EST) Malcolm's fatal error? Um, let's list Malcolm's mistakes. He (along with everyone else) allowed a situation at Survivor Auction where Abi could buy an II advantage, and then win II. He made an F3 agreement (well, forced upon them) with Lisa and Mike at F5 reward. He didn't really trust in that agreement as long as Abi was in the game, but he did rely on it after Abi was eliminated, though he should have known better. He under-estimated Denise's Jedi mind control abilities, or over-estimated his own. Well, as close as you can get in reality to Jedi mind tricks -- powers of persuasion. He didn't give Denise the HII to play for herself at F5 TC, which if she had had it and had played it when she didn't need to would have possibly hurt her chances of winning. Getting rid of Abi at F5 was not a mistake, though. He totally knew he was toast as long as the goat was in the works.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-11-13, 08:30 AM (EST) 41. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-11-13 AT 06:00 PM (EST) Jedi mind control?!! So, she's not only perfect but she has supernatural powers from the future? Good grief...   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-12-13, 09:47 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-12-13 AT 09:50 PM (EST) Oh please, even you couldn't misread this one. Besides, Vulcan mind melds are just too dangerous.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-15-13, 08:14 PM (EST) 45. "RE: Denise, perfect? " What I read are the words of a fan.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

dabo 25344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-17-13, 03:25 AM (EST) 48. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Gosh, so many points I could make here. Which ones to make, which ones to not make? Where to start? Decisions decisions. Well, okay, first off... 1. This is a fan forum. Even if it weren't there is nothing wrong with being a fan. 2. If, however, you are employing the word "fan" here to mean "fanboy" (which you called me in post #26 in this thread) you should really jettison that part of your repertoir. "Fanboy" -- as you know or should know if you don't -- is a putdown, a way of calling someone unreasonable, a form of namecalling, and pushing the limits of what is permissable here. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big boy and can take it, whatever you want to dish out, and would not file a complaint with TPTB about that, so no worries, this is all in good fun after all. But it is pushing the limits. There are any number of places in this thread alone where I have thought you yourself were quite unreasonable, I haven't said so directly, but if I were to do so I would do it directly saying "I think you are being unreasonable about (whatever)." The "moron" thing in post #30 gave me a big chuckle, by the way. 3. It actually amuses me no end that you misunderstand, misread what I write, and subsequently misrepresent what I wrote, and I don't always feel a need to point it out when I see you have done that. It's actually something to be expected in any argument. Still, when you clearly misrepresent Star Wars as taking place in the future when it was blatantly established in the very beginning of the original movie that it takes place in the past, well that's just too funny to pass up, even though it is actually meaningless otherwise in this thread. 4. I will now clarify for you something you do not seem to understand. In post #36 you wrote (after the headslap graphic): If we only go by what happened then there's only one conclusion: All the winners were perfect, none made a single mistake. Pretty straightforward post, nothing wrong with that, and I didn't even mind the effort at diminishing what I said with the graphic -- discussion, argument, whatever, I can take it, no biggie. But I have not taken any position in this thread or any other that anyone was a perfect player. Nor that anyone wasn't. Nor whether a perfect game is or is not possible. I haven't concerned myself with any of that. The only position I have taken in this thread in respect to perfection was to acknowledge that a particular definition of it was a reasonable defininition of it if someone wanted to adopt it. I did not say I agreed with that definition. If someone wanted to adopt a position that a perfect player would be one who won with a unanimous jury vote in the end, I would acknowledge that as well as a reasonable definition of perfection without necessarily adopting it myself.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-17-13, 08:57 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Denise, perfect? " 1. You can be a fan of the show without being a fan of Emil Skoda...err, I mean Denise. 2. Now you're the one misunderstanding me. All I was saying is that I was done arguing. 3. I only ever saw the first 2 Star Wars episodes and that was a long time ago. Much too Cartoonish Cowboys and Indians for my taste. Still, I know that there was supposed to be 9 episodes and figured that the imaginary narrator was living sometime after the events that would have occured in episode 9. For us here on XXth century Earth, it was still future events. In any case, I was afraid that, by saying she had Jedi like mind control, you meant that Denise had evolved into a superhuman. 4. You were saying that "what ifs" are irrelevant, that only what happened matters. If we cannot question the players' decisions, if we can only look at end results then every winner would be perfect. But perfection doesn't exist. 5. I can also post toilet pics:   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 10:38 AM (EST) 31. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Touché', in. re semantics. We are not using the term “perfect” in the same way. And I'd like to find another more exactly appropriate description than “perfect”, but I can't. Well, maybe “Flawless”? Admittedly, if one's idea of a perfect game is one in which the player controls every aspect of every other player's game, and always makes the others do what they would have them do, then Denise's game wasn't perfect. Her self-control was flawless, but she couldn’t control the others, she could only try to influence them. But if the idea is to always react to circumstances that aren't in anyone's total control, and always make the more rational decision, and on occasion even make a brilliant maneuver, and if the series of ensuing events results in a win, then that person's game has to rank somewhere close to perfection. And I did not see Denise make a mistake. I regard her efforts to evade the enmity of most of the jury and blunt the hatred coming from Abi as semi-brilliant. The final vote was evidence of her effectiveness in that regard.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 11:42 AM (EST) 32. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I think many of us thought that Denise made a mistake when she was too brutally honest with Abi in those middle TCs when she used counselor-speak to evaluate Abi as a "not nice" person. At the time this felt like Denise finally breaking by not holding her tongue and that this might come back to haunt her. As it turned out Abi still voted to give Denise the $1M, and perhaps (probably?) Denise even gained favour from the rest of the jury by honestly smacking Abi around. We'll never know if this was a good or bad move at the time. All we do know is that it didn't end up a bad move. You guys will never prove perfect/flawless/etc because there is no way to know what is good or bad. Even some of the dumbest moves in Survivor history may have been made in desperation and in reality better than doing nothing. There's no UNDO button in Survivor!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 03:07 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Denise, perfect? " That (Denise's Convo with Abi) was a delicate situation, admittedly. It could have worked against her, but as it turned out, she actually did a pretty delicate and successful tight wire job there. Attributable to her training and professional talents, I suppose. There (and in other instances, most notably in her final pleas at TC to the jury) she showed (to me) how important her professional skills as a counselor were to her on the island. Even in her talks to and about Abi she showed restraint, the "not nice" comments were clearly restrained versions of what she could have said, or even what was probably echoing in her head. Given the circumstances surrounding that, and the prodding by Jeff and Abi, her self-control was remarkable. When she felt that it was no use trying to communicate with Abi, she shut up. Smart. No yelling or vituperation, she just shut it down. I guess that I just feel that for once, after watching a season of Survivor, that I finally watched a Survivor progress thru 39 days where I didn't think I needed an "Undo" button. That's probably as close as I'll ever come to witnessing a "perfect" performance.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

byoffer 15808 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-15-13, 09:52 AM (EST) 43. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I thought that Kim Spradlin played pretty (and pretty!) close to a perfect game. She always seemed in control, did well in challenges, was liked by most, and in the end they just couldn't not give her the $$. She managed her foot soldiers pretty well, and always seemed to know what was going on. IMO, Kim didn't have to get as lucky at the end as Denise did re having two unlikeables (Mike and Lisa) get to the finish. It seems that there was no way those two could ever win a jury vote, and yet they controlled to the end. If Malcolm had been kept over Denise, would this thread be called "Malcolm, perfect?"??   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-15-13, 03:07 PM (EST) 44. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Kim played a very good game too, arguably a perfect game. And they did end up giving her the money, right? Those are two pretty smart and effective women. Malcolm played well too. But Denise did what he could not do, which was argue sucessfully that she should be in the final three. Maybe she would have been taken anyway, Malcolm was seen as a jury threat, but I feel that her "counselor speak" was just more persuasive. She convinced Lisa and Mike that she was less of a jury threat than Malcolm was. And maybe she was right, but she still won over them. Denise did have some luck in that Mike made the final three decision, and Mike was more intimidated by Malcolm that he was by Denise.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 06:03 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Denise, perfect? " I would still not agree that Denise played a flawless game. It was flawless only pre-merge but it became an ordinary display of UTR skating post-merge that included some mistakes. You say you didn't see any mistakes but what about the 3 I suggested? - She voted against Penner, losing his trust. If Jonathan had accepted Lisa's final 3 deal, then we'd have a whole new Final 3 because they had the votes to eliminate Malcolm and Denise. It would have been much better for her to vote against RC. -She let Malcolm make the decisions for her and if he had won the F4 IC she was dead. - If Skupin and Lisa weren't extremely dumb at F5 and had kept Abi, Denise would have gone to Loser Lodge.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

kingfish 16088 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 09:43 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Denise, perfect? " 1. Not a mistake. She may not have been liked by Penner, but she managed to get his vote. Success. She was smart enough to capitalize on his idiotic non-decision, and with his ego, what else is he going to say about her? Voting for or against RC turned out to be irrelevant. 2. Certainly not a mistake by her. In fact it turned out to be great strategy. And a "what if" isn't a mistake either, it's simply a hypothetical that didn't happen. Finally, she maneuvered Malcom into making the decisions, and he still votes for her. Success, and great strategy. 3. Again, a "what if" circumstance is not a mistake. How can that be a mistake on her part. I mean, what if a volcanoes had erupted and wiped out the cast? Then her mistake would have been applying to be on Survivor? There are no "if"s in Survivor, just strategy and results. She had both.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-09-13, 11:19 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Denise, perfect? " Survivor, like life, is a continuous series of ifs. If you only look at results then all the winners were equally perfect and we are left with nothing. The path and the decisions made along the way would mean nothing and we wouldn't even have a reason to talk about them. I refuse to consider that absolute philosophy, that unconditional reality. Put it another way: You are saying that because Denise walked blindly across a minefield without being blown to bits then her strategy was good. Let me tell you that there are better ways to proceed! 1- You missed the point: Most players in Penner's position would have agreed to Lisa's F3 so Denise would have been the one on the jury voting for him. 99% of viewers facepalmed when Penner said "no thank you". Denise wasn't even aware that she had just been given a reserved seat in the F4. (All those mines were avoided by mere inches) 2- Malcolm was the best challenge performer and Denise was pathetic in that final challenge. Since Malcolm wasn't about to take her to the F3 then she should have pushed to eliminate him earlier. She was damn lucky that Mike won the F3 IC, that Malcolm had shaky hands. (That atom bomb in her path turned out to be a dud) 3- She had no say in Mike and Lisa's decision to boot Abi so it was only luck that got her passed that TC. Maybe a better player would have realized that earlier and made the alliance with Penner and Carter for example. Or with Abi and Pete. I see Denise and Malcolm siding with Lisa and Mike as an error in judgment that only turned out right for Denise because Mike and Lisa made a bigger error. (Lisa and Mike stepped on the last few mines when they should have let Abi clear them.) Volcanoes, you can't control or predict but in this game you have to control and understand people to predict their moves. Denise had very little control after the merge.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

PepeLePew13 24731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-10-13, 01:56 AM (EST) 38. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-10-13 AT 03:22 PM (EST) >3- She had no say in >Mike and Lisa's decision to >boot Abi so it was >only luck that got her >passed that TC. Maybe a >better player would have realized >that earlier and made the >alliance with Penner and Carter >for example. Or with Abi >and Pete. I see Denise >and Malcolm siding with Lisa >and Mike as an error >in judgment that only turned >out right for Denise because >Mike and Lisa made a >bigger error. You could argue that Denise had 'some' say here - she made herself likeable in a way that Stupin/Lisa were willing to keep her around over a reprehensible Abi, even when they knew that keeping Abi was the better play. Consider this: Lisa, in particular, and Skupin both developed a relationship with Penner and they still voted him out. They didn't do that to Denise. Bottom line... it's Outwit, Outplay, Outlast, and Denise did these better than Stupin/Lisa/Malcolm and anyone else. Ergo, she played a great game. You rail on her 'following' Malcolm but we were shown strategy sessions between these two and it *is* a valid strategy to let someone else be the lead in order to potentially take the bullets if any were to come. Plus Denise was the one who cultivated relationships with the Kalabaws (Malcolm was over on the Tandang tribe, so naturally Denise didn't do any 'following') that allowed her to get votes from the Kalabaws plus she scored more votes from Tandangs on the jury than original Tandangs Stupin/Lisa did in order to win. Whether she followed or not, Denise made the relationships work in order to allow her to win, so she is a very deserving winner.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-10-13, 08:35 AM (EST) 39. "RE: Denise, perfect? " LAST EDITED ON 01-10-13 AT 06:46 PM (EST) I agree with this, Pepe. She Outwitted, Outlasted and Outplayed Mike, Lisa and Malcolm and played a good game. That being said, she was damn lucky in too many occasions for me to say that she is among the very best winners ever. Edited to amend my early post: While Denise played a good game, she personally didn't Outplay anyone as far as challenges go. The stupid format of the final IC enabled Mike to Outplay Malcolm who would have won the game if he had won that IC. As for Outwitting, I feel Mike and Lisa Outwitted themselves more than anything. Listening to Mike say that he never figured out the jury is astonishing coming from a veteran. It makes me wonder if they were misled: They certainly could have counted the number of jury members like we did and figure there had to be a Final 2.   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

krismiss2us 768 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 01-16-13, 04:29 PM (EST) 46. "here's one for you all" If I were to go on survivor, would ya'll bash me too?   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

michel 10812 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-16-13, 07:28 PM (EST) 47. "RE: here's one for you all" We'd root for you, laugh at you, bash you...but mostly envy you!   Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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