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PepeLePew13 26140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-15-07, 09:57 AM (EST) "How to shake up Survivor?" I'm seeing a lot of posts on how boring this season is or how terrible it is, etc. We need ways to shake up 'Survivor'! Perhaps the CBS lackeys are trolling the online sites for fresh new ideas. What does 'Survivor' need to be fresh and interesting again? My thoughts: - Go back to strictly casting contestants based on their application videos and interviews - no recruits - and cast people who don't mind jumping alliances (remember how Candice and Jonathan made things interesting last season?) - No buffet food rewards (other than staples such as rice and maybe a reward prize of spices) - Get rid of gimmicks such as the hidden immunity idol - Make all challenges tough but gender-equal. More puzzles or something that requires thinking together as a team (in the early going) or using clues to figure out answers A thought... would it work to have one camp without tribes for a whole season? It'd be a voting free-for-all and alliances might collapse easily if one person decides he or she is disgruntled about the way things are going, then hops over. They could have 'tribes for the day' events when they have challenges to keep one side immune or conveniently away for the day while the losing side goes to Tribal Council. And if they're ever going to do an All-Stars type of thing again (hope not), at least make it one where there are 10 former winners on one tribe and 10 former first-boots on another tribe. Even better if they put the former first-boots on a nicer camp than the former winners. A Tribe siggie "Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Ripley 03-15-07 1    RE: How to shake up Survivor? SatHizFakShon 03-21-07 23        RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-28-07 28  RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-15-07 2    RE: How to shake up Survivor? PepeLePew13 03-16-07 5        RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-16-07 6            RE: How to shake up Survivor? Colonel Zoidberg 03-16-07 8                RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-16-07 9                    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Colonel Zoidberg 03-16-07 10            RE: How to shake up Survivor? emydi 03-16-07 11        RE: How to shake up Survivor? SatHizFakShon 03-21-07 24            RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-28-07 29  RE: How to shake up Survivor? Colonel Zoidberg 03-15-07 3  RE: How to shake up Survivor? Jims02 03-15-07 4  RE: How to shake up Survivor? jbug 03-16-07 7    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-16-07 14        RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-16-07 15            RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-16-07 17  RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-16-07 12    RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-16-07 13        RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-16-07 16    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Ahtumbreez 03-17-07 18  Casting vs Recruiting KObrien_fan 03-17-07 19    RE: Casting vs Recruiting iltarion 03-17-07 20        RE: Casting vs Recruiting Ripley 03-17-07 21        RE: Casting vs Recruiting Aruba 03-18-07 22  RE: How to shake up Survivor? anotherkim 03-27-07 25    RE: How to shake up Survivor? iltarion 03-28-07 26    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Aruba 03-28-07 27    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Colonel Zoidberg 03-28-07 30    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Ripley 03-28-07 31        RE: How to shake up Survivor? Colonel Zoidberg 03-29-07 32  RE: How to shake up Survivor? michel 03-29-07 33    RE: How to shake up Survivor? Ripley 03-29-07 34

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Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-15-07, 01:59 PM (EST) 1. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" I always thought this would be a great idea,it may get a little crowded but have Survivor and The Amazing Race combined.Have the Survivor game yet instead of individuals they would have couples.When there came a time for voting off the island they would have to vote off the couple.So imagine you really like the husband of the team but couldn't stand the wife,or the wife was a great competitor yet the husband was a big clumsy oaf.You would have to make a hard decision keep or eliminate.   Top

SatHizFakShon 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-21-07, 08:42 AM (EST) 23. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Always thought the two persons teams would be a great idea....add a twist to it....nobody knows who is who's partner.... Look what God's done to us   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-28-07, 05:17 AM (EST) 28. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" CBS tried that in Big Brother 6. Problem was the partners who went into the game teamed up suspected that they were not the ONLY players who were teamed; and they were right. By the second or third episode everyone pretty much figured out who was who's partner and the "secret" didn't last long. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-15-07, 03:02 PM (EST) 2. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" >- Go back to strictly casting >contestants based on their application >videos and interviews - no >recruits - Recruiting is nothing more than a company investing in a job fare or head-hunters to find new employees. You can get very interesting candidates that wouldn't walk through the door if all you do is post a job offer on the internet. So I don't think it is something I'd suggest. >No buffet food rewards Agreed wholeheartedly. Using natives like Da is much more interesting. >- Get rid of gimmicks such >as the hidden immunity idol I agree. >- Make all challenges tough but >gender-equal. Not something I'd do: If you don't need strength then the strong guys will be booted right off the bat. Choose more players that can hold their own in challenges. Maybe make some post merge immunity challenges so that players have to pair up. If you don't have HII, why not have a man and a woman immune during the first few post merge challenges? >would it work to >have one camp without tribes >for a whole season? >It'd be a voting free-for-all I thought that was what was going to happen when we heard the premise of Palau. I still think it would be a good idea. Another idea could be to have no merge until F4. Start with 2 teams of 8. Reshuffle them 6-6 once you are down to 12 and do the same at 8. Mainly, I think less is best: Start with 2 teams, switch them up to keep the bonds from being too solid. Have them fight against the conditions and each other to survive and see what happens. Survivor is fun, it doesn't need tampering.   Top

PepeLePew13 26140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 06:06 AM (EST) 5. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" > >>- Go back to strictly casting >>contestants based on their application >>videos and interviews - no >>recruits - > >Recruiting is nothing more than a >company investing in a job >fare or head-hunters to find >new employees. You can get >very interesting candidates that wouldn't >walk through the door if >all you do is post >a job offer on the >internet. So I don't think >it is something I'd suggest. If you think back to the first four seasons, these people were almost exclusively picked from application videos and casting interviews -- and there were a lot of entertaining and interesting people in those seasons that stick in our memories. Dicque, Rudy, Soozin, Dr. Sean, Greg, Jerri, Colby, Lis, Rodger, Big Tom, Lex, Rob M, Kathy and so on. I'm not sure at what point when it became more of a recruiting show than an application show, but the last two seasons have been heavily recruited because of the number of minorities required. This season with many people saying it's the worst cast? Every single one of the contestants -- except Gary -- were recruited this season. Let's go back to strictly casting from videos and interviews! We had lots of interesting people that way who actually WANT to be on Survivor. A Tribe siggie "Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 09:11 AM (EST) 6. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Yul, Jonathan, Ozzy, Cao Boi, Flica, Shane, Yau-Man, Rocky, Dre and many others were recruited. Even Gary had applied for TAR but got recruited to Survivor. We can get interesting characters through recruiting also. Back in the first 4 seasons, there wasn't as much competition for contestants. Now a days, you can win a million by picking a numbered suit case. Many prefer that route to suffering for 39 days. I also have a feeling that many of the rejects that applied for those first seasons are still the ones submitting most of the applications. I don't say we abandon applicants like they did this season but they shouldn't limit themselves there either. Recruiting fans would be ideal but since about 5% of the population watch Survivor, I'm guessing there are many interesting people outside of the fan base. As a last resort, they could open applications to us, north of the border. We'd show them we can be weird on a beach!   Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-16-07, 12:00 PM (EST) 8. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" About half those names are people who deserve to be on Survivor. Yul, Jonathan, Ozzy, Cao Boi, and Yau Man were endlessly entertaining. Flica had no business on Survivor. Shane was entertaining but had no business on Survivor. Rocky and Dreamz are, sadly, the cream of the Fiji crop, which is a little like saying they're the best clumps of horse manure in a bag. Recruiting can be very problematic - though it shouldn't be cut entirely. The fact that this entire cast was recruited indicates how problematic it is - though at least Gary applied for another show (and probably should have gone on that show, you know, to avoid those damn bug bites. Papa Smurf should get a chance on TAR.) Survivor needs to encourage its fan base. Some of the best players are either Survivor fans would would be if they ever watched it. Rob Cesternino comes to mind. It's people like him who make me say the following: Don't stop recruiting, but damnit, go easy on it. Sure, bring in some minorities here and there, but don't go nuts with it. Cook Islands had an awesome cast. Fiji has a terrible cast. I can think of several Cook Islanders who deserve to be All-Stars. From Fiji, no one but Yau-Man is an All-Star. It proves this - recruiting only gets you so far. And people might surprise us. Look at Cirie. Hell, even Cassandra shows some moxy. (I'm assuming Tom Westman applied - look at him.)   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 12:51 PM (EST) 9. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Sorry to have induced you in error Colonel. I should have specified Gary Hogeboom applied for TAR. Papa Smurf did apply for Survivor but I'd forgotten that his true identity was also Gary!!   Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-16-07, 01:05 PM (EST) 10. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Ah, I understand now...though it might have made sense if Papa Smurf applied for TAR as well. I knew Papa Smurf applied, but I guess that applying for another show and being placed on Survivor counts as having applied on some level. And it's still a far cry better than the recruits that are on this season. I wonder how Gary "Hawkins" Hogeboom would have done on TAR...and if he would have told anyone he was actually a quarterback.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 01:27 PM (EST) 11. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" The recruits should at least know something about the show ...survivor trivia...easy stuff like name all 14 winners in order ...KT could write the test...no, then only she would pass And if they pass then make them read Nash's book and quiz them on that... And quit reusing the same EXACT challenges...at least change it up when you do. And maybe think a little more about using Sumo at Sea with two tribes that are so different strength/nutrition wise. GET RID OF HAVES camps...go back to basics on food, etc. Use more word/no. puzzles instead of always putting together puzzles (I'm a bit biased, I do so much better with nos and words than spacial puzzles ). I loved that anagram challenge in TAR this year. And one of my favorite challenges was the "Boggle" one that Burton won then lost after they saw he spelled liaison incorrectly. Survivor Suduko anyone when 9 people are out..use their faces instead of nos. 1-9   Top

SatHizFakShon 38 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-21-07, 09:08 AM (EST) 24. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Cast one season with all contestants over the age of 40. Look what God's done to us   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-28-07, 05:34 AM (EST) 29. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" >Cast one season with all contestants over the age of 40. AHHHHHH, I like the way you think! Casting ALL contestants over 40 may be a case of overcompensation...but certainly having more castways over 40 would be great. POSITIVES: Over 40 age Survivors have historically fared well. They are much harder working and most fit the "survivor" mode since they don't treat it like a summer camp or frat party. Less chance of having to subject the viewers to immature nonsense. NEGATIVES: Certainly there are many 40+ good-looking people, but fans who tune in to see younger male model types and 20-something bikini babes with their fake boobies would be disappointed. Also with 40+, you'll have less chance of those silly sappy showmances. I, for one, wouldn't shed a tear; but there are lots of viewers who eat that junk up with a spoon. > > > >Look what God's done to us > "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-15-07, 03:37 PM (EST) 3. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" The biggest thing they need to do is to CAST INTERESTING PEOPLE. There has to be something that will get people's attention back, and once that happens, Survivor may experience a resurgence not unlike how Saturday Night Live goes through cycles. It doesn't have to be all downhill. Twists are good, and tools of the trade that make the show less predictable are excellent. Pagongings are bad. Seeing one tribe constantly lose, unless it's because of hilarious incompetence, is bad. Seeing Ulong get whipped because they were ridiculously incompetent was fun. Seeing Raro get stomped on by a bunch of scrappy underdogs was also fun. Seeing Ravu butchered week after week due to food deprivation is frustrating. The idol is the tool of the oppressed minority in Survivor, and it should stay in some form. However, the execution should be altered a bit - the Fiji season has the right idea, but instead of asking for the idol before reading the votes, players should play the idol while they vote. The voting urn should come with a side pouch that people can put immunity idols inp; the idols would have a small piece of parchment inside upon which the player can write their name, indicating that they are immune (or, in theory, another person's name; my example is, of course, Estee's Society Islands season. Under Estee's rule, Alex simply slipped the idol to Gardener, and he played it after the vote. Under my idea, Alex goes up to vote, plays the idol, but instead of writing her own name, she writes Gardener's. Everyone still thinks she's playing it for herself, as anyone would, and she speaks nothing to Gardener about it. Same jaw-dropping effect.) I would do away with Exile Island, though, and introduce a way similar to Estee's for the idol to be at camp. However, unlike Estee's one-round idol, this idol would be good for as long as the player holds it (or until it has to be turned in, whenever that is...Fiji states that it's no good once they're down to four.) One more thing - the opening needs to be 90 minutes no matter how loudly Mark Burnett has to shout at the CBS executives, and it needs to develop every character. I had no idea who Jessica was when she was voted off. I knew very little about Erica. All I knew about Liliana was that she was a flirt. And all I know about Rita is that she's obnoxious. There has to be more stand-outs. A couple of UTR players who aren't well-known is OK. When half the cast is a bunch of cardboard cutouts, there's a problem. Also, think the experimentation through a bit - rich vs. poor was kind of a cool idea, but it doesn't always work. Especially when the rich tribe lives like they're in Beverly Hills and the poor tribe would be envious of Sekou's low-income housing. Also, cast from all around the country. Enough of this business of having half the cast from California.   Top

Jims02 7407 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-15-07, 08:57 PM (EST) 4. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" - Go back to strictly casting contestants based on their application videos and interviews - no recruits - and cast people who don't mind jumping alliances (remember how Candice and Jonathan made things interesting last season?) I completely agree with this. This is one of the biggest problems with reality TV right now, in my opinion. Shows like The Amazing Race and Survivor have decided that beautiful people are the only types of people that viewers want to see. So they go out and cast lots of models and people like that. Unfortunately, many of these models are just boring people to watch, and don't say anything remotely interesting. What they really need is more comedians, people like Rob Cesternino who could entertain us in confessionals. This show is just so deathly serious every episode... It makes the show kinda boring. Bring in some clever and witty people already!   Top

jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 09:11 AM (EST) 7. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" >>>If you don't have HII, why not have a man and a woman immune during the first few post merge challenges? Each tribe could pick a MVP from the other tribe according to their contributions to the challenge - the MVP would be immune. Course it would have to be solid that the MVP was really the best at the challenge - not the weak person the other tribe wanted to keep safe to hinder that tribe, (am I making sense? I understand me) Handcrafted by RollDdice   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-16-07, 04:11 PM (EST) 14. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" You're making sense, and I understand. Problem is you'd be relying on outcasts most of whom are lying, deceiving and backstabbing players to HONESTLY pick MVPs for immunity. You'd have a better chance getting served a pork chop at a Bar Mitzvah. If there was a way you could OBJECTIVELY select the true MVP for immunity, I'm all for that. But since our "wonderful" Selection Committe casts far many more whimps than solid players, the "Anti-Darwin Syndrome" would prevail where the weak will gang up on the strong and SUBJECTIVELY pick the weak person so the solid performers get booted. As for "a man and a women" being immune post merge???...Hey, here's a concept--Howabout the most deserving be immune REGARDLESS OF GENDER!!! This equality fixation nonsense is partially the reason why the show has been going downhill lately. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 05:46 PM (EST) 15. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Better that than have watered down challenges that anyone could win. They have done only 2 of those challenges, I think: The opening of Palau and the first All-Star challenge after merge. It made for interesting competition. Isn't that what we're looking for?   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-16-07, 06:54 PM (EST) 17. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" I've never been an advocate of "watered down" challenges. If anything, have challenges that live up to the name of the show and award immunity to the most deserving REGARDLESS of gender. IMO the opening challenge on the Palau premier was primarily to see who would be among the first to jump in the water and put a target on themselves more than which male/female would be the first to shore. In part it served it's purpose with Jonathon being targeted and being sent home on Day 2. As for the "all-star" challenge...I honestly forgot what that challenge was. And actually have no interest to remember since I'm only concerned with REAL seasons. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-16-07, 03:46 PM (EST) 12. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" All the suggestions have merit; but it all comes down to the one issue most touched on--CAST! Simply said...Go back to basics. Back when the casts were far better when selecting among APPLICANTS. Yea, Yea...I know Corporate America and Fortune 500 companies use head hunters and job fairs as a recruitment tool. That is to reach out to prospects who may not know that a particular company is seeking certain positions. I won't guess what percentage of Americans WATCH Survivor and how many are true fans, but one thing is for sure, unless you have lived in a cave for the past seven years, everyone KNOWS OF Survivor. And with all reality shows, contestants APPLY to be on the show. That being said, cast playes who KNOW the show, LOVE the show and are willing to put out 100% to ensure the show's continued success. If you want to include a few token recruits, that's OK. Let the cast be diverse throughout the ENTIRE country; not just concentrated in the state of California. And select the BEST 16, 18 or 20 Survivors each season. None of this bogus politically correct affirmative action crap. Finally, whether the selection pool is via application or recruitment, it all comes down to the "stellar" Selection Committee choosing the best outcasts. THAT'S where the show has failed in recent seasons. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-16-07, 04:05 PM (EST) 13. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Doesn't that selection committee include that girl who almost won Big Brother All-Star? Not too stellar, I'd say. There could be the whole problem!   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-16-07, 06:37 PM (EST) 16. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Point very well taken. Having a horny female toad like Erika on the committe would explain casting some pretty boy off the cover of GQ with his 70 IQ, swapping 30 days of morning breath with some Ho who probably got casted by stripping in front of an all male casting crew. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

Ahtumbreez 10456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-17-07, 03:13 AM (EST) 18. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" I agree that this season's main problem is that ALL of the contestants are Booorrringgg! But as far as recruiting vs casting is concerned I'm undecided. Only because last season was totally cast and it was one of my favorite seasons. Though, I do wish they'd go back to selecting the majority from the videos because of diversity in regional attitudes instead of ethnicity. Their casting dept needs a good shake up, but whoever it was that fought to keep Cirie can stay.   Top

KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-17-07, 08:37 AM (EST) 19. "Casting vs Recruiting" I don't necessarily think that recruiting is a bad thing. I think that like any other thing it comes down to trying to predict/project how each person will play the game once you get there. Survivor has always cast the show with archetypes in mind. They want all applicants to have at least 3 of the 4: sex appeal, interesting character, conflict, and humor. The more you have of the mix the better. In any given season there is room for 1 old guy, 1 old woman, several young beautiful women- including alpha types, several young good looking men- several of whom are alpha, a hot headed pyscotic, a religious zealot or two, a token gay, a token redneck, etc. But MB is a true control freak and part of the problem in casting survivor fans this late in the process, is that survivor fans think they know it all and therefore are harder to "scare" or "control". By using recruits that aren't all that familiar with the inner workings of the show, they get to control them each step of the way. They do "try" to select a cast that will be a hit, heck it is in their best interest to, but Stephanie Dill is a great example of someone that looked great in her viedeo, had an interesting story, claimed she would do anything to win, and was a total bomb on the show. Survivor ASS trivia champion, Survivor 1-13 trivia champion   Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 03-17-07, 12:21 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Casting vs Recruiting" The problem with recruiting is you get too many of the actor/actress wannabe's. Let the fans play! They know how to play and they are committed to it. Cook Islands was an anomoly that was greatly helped by circumstances that revealed peoples' character. If you really think about it, who really had an entertaining personality on Cook Islands? I would say Jonathan, Nate and Cai Boi, maybe. That is it. It was the circumstances of the game that made Yul, Ozzy, Sundra and Becky endearing characters. I don't think any of them had personalities that would jump out at you in an interview. Tribal switches might make the game more interesting, but I find the tribes that have been together the longest become the most interesting tribes. I want to see people who actually care something about each other play this game. Lying and disloyalty, and playing this game is a lot easier when you have no attachments and don't care about anyone. I think giving out the male and female immunity immediately after merge is the most useless time to do so. Women are almost never booted first after the merge. It is virtually always a man. It made no difference in All-Stars since Lex was the main target anyway, for instance. What is a good idea is allowing the winning team of the IC, premerge, to protect one member of the opposing tribe, or grant them immunity. This has been done a number of times, and has largely been useless, but if it is done immediately in the show, like after the first or 2nd IC, than the decisions would be less individual-based and more tribal-based, meaning, the less athletic or challenge-inclined tribemembers could be granted immunity and thus have a better chance of advancing past those first couple weeks when the weak are typically axed, (unless it is Marquesas or Vanuatu). I like the HII because it can stop pagonging and cause a tribe to eat itself, ala Exile Island. I think the challenges are fine. You can always complain about the challenges. It is impossible to make the challenges equal for everyone or every tribe. I would recommend that the final IC always be endurance; however, as giving an easy gender-based advantage, for the men in Vanuatu and for the women in Exile Islands, is unfair and can practically determine the finals.   Top

Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-17-07, 10:28 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Casting vs Recruiting" That's why I thought a "Cook Islands" type of family Survivor would be great.Families always have personalities in them.Also when a tribes merge the original tribes always seem to act like family and try to eliminate other tribe members who weren't in the original alliance.The producers will always find a way to make it interesting.   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-18-07, 11:00 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Casting vs Recruiting" Good job, Iltarion. Once again, a well thought-out post. I agree with everything except the immunity part. I am totally against "handing-out" immunity to someone who will remain safe via dumb-a$$ luck. Early bootees were not voted out ONLY because they were weak and challenge deficent, but also because they were useless around camp and were taking the route of coattailling UTR to advance in the game. Rob C. (Amazon) was about as weak and girly-man as they come, but helped around camp (he even dubbed himself "Butch's deputy wood retreiving b!tch", or something like that) and more than made up for his deficency by excelling in other facets of the game, hence was not at risk early on. Also one or two ICs does not a Survivor make. In Guatemala, Rafe's spaghetti arms couldn't even hold his own weight on the spider web cargo net early in the season and was looked upon as challenge deficent. Granted Guatemala had some of the most unphysical individual ICs, but Rafe went on an impressive immunity run despite his early futility. Chris (Vanuatu) kept sliding off the balance beam like a greased pig and single-handedly lost the first IC for his team. Grant he beat all women in the end, but even post merge was able to hold his own in future ICs. Even despite those exceptions, I disagree with giving some loser a new lease on life that early in the game. Bottomline, immunity should be EARNED either by winning a challenge or using your brain to decipher clues and find the HII. No handouts or gifts should be given to some pathetic player would shouldn't have even been casted to begin with. "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-27-07, 06:27 PM (EST) 25. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Never, ever, in the history of reality television, should they do the have vs. the have not thing. It is beyond painful and boring to watch. When I can't even remember that Survivor is on television on a Thursday night, there is a big, big problem. Don't have untying knots or sorting through a ring of keys be such a central part of every other challenge. Survivor should be about more than undoing a big wad of rope. Make them swim more. Make them jump from really high things. Make them dive more. Make them climb fake trees. Do something remotely uncivilized. Fire central casting and get some people that are more interesting. Stop giving them so many THINGS in rewards. They don't need soap or a hibachi. Make them survive. I loved it when they were only allowed to bring the clothes they were wearing and a bathing suit. Mix the tribes up more often. Let them swap around and really get unsettled OR don't have any swaps at all a la the early days. Devise more challenges that will help reveal boot order earlier. Let them put targets on themselves as early as possible. at the very least, make the first episode 90 or 120 minutes. I still don't feel as if I know these people. Mainly because they are so dull, but also because I was totally lost after the first episode and couldn't keep people straight. Hook me in from the get-go. Kimmah Says --I do like the way they segue from the recap each week straight into the action for the current week. That's a good change.   Top

iltarion 1791 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 03-28-07, 01:07 AM (EST) 26. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" LAST EDITED ON 03-28-07 AT 01:15 AM (EST) AK, best comprehensive post on this topic so far. If the producers would follow your suggestions, Survivor would get back to the things that made it great TV. Great point regarding the challenges with knots and key rings. Aruba and I have posted many times on how no challenge with knots can be completely fair. Some knots are always going to be harder to undo than others, and the key ring thing is like basically saying they who is luckiest wins. Plus, what the ell does picking the right key have to do with surviving? Exactly.   Top

Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-28-07, 05:10 AM (EST) 27. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Great post, Kim Yes, Yes, Yes and YES to all your points. I'm sure the reason the show has unphysical and unsurvivor types of challenges, where luck is a huge factor, is to try to prevent a "ringer" among the group. In Palau you had Tom Westman, the most perfect Survivor in every sense--a quintessential "ringer"...which was followed by Guatemala which arguably had the most unphysical challenges of any season. Coincidence? I Dunno. Last season we had Ozzy the "Dominator"...followed by this season of "knots and key rings". Coincidence? Perhaps. I can understand the shows perpective of wanting challenges with the result less predictable to keep the viewers on the edge of their seat. How do you do that and keep the challenges survivor-like? Answer: CASTING! Cast the best of the best. When you have only a select few who TRULY fit the mold of Survivor surrounded by a majority with the IQ of 60 and/or the desire and effort of a slugg, of course that has the makings of a ringer emmerging. When you cast some pretty-boy who's more interested in scoring with a floosey instead of playing the game, that's a problem. When you recruit some beauty pagent contestant who needs 1 1/2 hours to start a fire, that's a problem. Bottomline...the show's success begins and ends with CASTING! "Let's go to the videotape"   Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-28-07, 07:54 AM (EST) 30. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Never, ever, in the history of reality television, should they do the have vs. the have not thing. It is beyond painful and boring to watch. When I can't even remember that Survivor is on television on a Thursday night, there is a big, big problem. I thought it was a cool idea at first, but it just doesn't work. Maybe if they repeatedly switched up the tribes every couple of episodes, it would work. That's about it, though. Don't have untying knots or sorting through a ring of keys be such a central part of every other challenge. Survivor should be about more than undoing a big wad of rope. Make them swim more. Make them jump from really high things. Make them dive more. Make them climb fake trees. Do something remotely uncivilized. Completely agreed. Or tax their brains at the same time. And nothing that's simply based on luck. That's ridiculous. Fire central casting and get some people that are more interesting. And that means EVERY season. Not every OTHER season. I hardly knew most of Vanuatu's cast. Palau was cool. Guatemala had some good players. Exile Island was full of jerks. Cook Islands had some of the best casting in a while. Fiji's cast is, largely, a bunch of dolts. They need to put Estee in charge of casting. I'll even be her assistant. And not just because I want to see what happens when Alex from her season goes against Maria from mine. Stop giving them so many THINGS in rewards. They don't need soap or a hibachi. Make them survive. The early rewards should be basic - fishing gear, a few comfort items, necessities, etc. Make them earn it. Then later on in the season, the big food rewards can be brought out. When I wrote my season, I had absolutely no food rewards until the merge. On purpose. That may be a bit excessive, but it can be done. I loved it when they were only allowed to bring the clothes they were wearing and a bathing suit. For one season, I would enjoy seeing them shipwrecked with only a bathing suit, their sneakers, and the clothes on their backs - and Ravu-style accomodations, with a single pot and a single machete. And no obvious shelter, like a cave. Pearl Islands was a cool idea, and the market scene was a nice touch, but they could have made it harder. Mix the tribes up more often. Let them swap around and really get unsettled OR don't have any swaps at all a la the early days. Exile Island didn't have a swap, episode 2 notwithstanding, and La Mina was damn near Pagonged. Of course, simple tribe swapping doesn't eliminate Pagongings; look at Guatemala (yes, yes, Danni won, but her tribemates had no chance, and Nakum fvcked around.) I would go for more tribe swapping - maybe two pre-merge tribe swaps. Devise more challenges that will help reveal boot order earlier. Let them put targets on themselves as early as possible. An idea I have, and if anyone intends to write any Survivor fiction, feel free to use this one, is an auction pre-merge where people buy as individuals. The idea is this - let's say it's six to a tribe. Each player gets $500 in increments of $20. The tribe, as a whole, gets $1,000. Players can spend their own money or tap into the tribe's to buy things. The catch? Unless Jeff says it's OK, players can't share items. So, although a player can tap into the tribe's money to buy something, they cannot share what they win. That'll bring out where people stand in no time. at the very least, make the first episode 90 or 120 minutes. I still don't feel as if I know these people. Mainly because they are so dull, but also because I was totally lost after the first episode and couldn't keep people straight. Hook me in from the get-go. Fiji should have been a 90-minute opener. Even Cook Islands would have benefitted from a 90-minute opener. Episode 1 of both series was boring; Cook Islands didn't get good until the second episode. Every Survivor season should open with a 90-minute episode, CBS's 10pm time slot be damned. Expand CSI to 90 minutes, too. I do like the way they segue from the recap each week straight into the action for the current week. That's a good change. I hate that. It drives me nuts. I don't know why...call me a purist, I guess.   Top

Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-28-07, 06:18 PM (EST) 31. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" LAST EDITED ON 03-28-07 AT 06:21 PM (EST) I think that instead of Exile Island that the chosen person should have to spend that night with the opposing tribe, so that person can get a little acquainted and get an idea of what to expect.Then when they merge, then send the person who is "immune" to Exile Island or not let the person who has won immunity a chance to vote.   Top

Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-29-07, 01:55 PM (EST) 32. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" Then when they merge, then send the person who is "immune" to Exile Island or not let the person who has won immunity a chance to vote. That wouldn't work, because it penalizes an alliance for having an immunity winner. Think about all the 5-5 deadlocks we've had going into the merge. Picture, for argument's sake, the Australia season. If the person who's immune can't vote, no one wants it; the vote was more powerful than immunity. if Keith wins it, Colby goes home because Keith isn't there to cast that fifth vote against Jeff. Then, the same way Ogakor pagonged Kucha, the opposite happens. Also, in a situation with an underdog, such as one tribe being down 4-3, it doesn't work there either. In the Amazon when Alex spilled to Rob that he was cutting Rob loose at F4, the vote ended up turning against Alex 4-3. If Rob wins immunity, that vote isn't there, and there's a deadlock, leaving a 50-50 chance that Alex's statement makes no difference. Or if, say, Matt won immunity, Rob might fear the tiebreak enough to stay with his alliance and vote off Butch. Immunity would actually work against people in that situation. Well, it works for people but against alliances. As hard as people work in immunity challenges, it should be a reward, not a trade-off. As for Exile Island...well, they need to do something different with the idol. Estee had an ingenious idea for it. There are other ideas that would work as well. As it stands, Exile island serves less as a chance to stay in the game and more as a way for all OF EPMB's twists to work out.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-29-07, 03:01 PM (EST) 33. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" LAST EDITED ON 03-29-07 AT 03:04 PM (EST) One thing that should be changed is the timing of the merge. Before, a season was split half and half with the merge happening in episode #7. Last season, the merge happened in Episode#10! Some seasons are more interesting before the merge like Australia but often the post merge is more interesting. Borneo, Africa, Amazon, Vanuatu, Guatemala, and Exile Island were more interesting post-merge. Besides Outback, All-Star and Palau are the only other seasons when the pre-merge was much better. Marquesas and PI were very well balanced, Thailand was boring throughout, Robb's craziness before and Brian's game after merge were the only things to see. Cook Island got very good after the mutiny and for a couple of episodes after the merge but it was bland at the start and end. With a balanced season, neither of the 2 Acts of the play gets too stale. If they continue to go with more than 16 players, a merge at 12 would balance the season, would force the tribes to look for bigger alliance than 5 which in itself could offer more chances to break up.   Top

Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-29-07, 04:10 PM (EST) 34. "RE: How to shake up Survivor?" That would defiantly shake up alliances if the merge happened sooner,especially with two hidden idols out there,if they ever find them,and if the person admitted to having the idol like Yul did.   Top

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