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Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 05-12-02, 06:13 AM (EST) "Jesus Stuff " I actually have enjoyed the faith aspect that has been edited in the show, and was wondering if anyone else has. I think that it has been pretty cool throughout the Survivor series that religion has been addressed in so many diffrent ways. I'll try and point out some of the ways that I remember. S1 1. Dirk's bible 2. Rudy's needing toilet paper. S2 3. Kucha prays after the Skupin incident. 4. Tina's confessing of her Christianity both on the show, and after. S3 5. Linda's "Mother Africa" rants 6. Frank's political rant (based on Christan right thinking) 7. Tom's "He's a Jew" comments about Ethan. S4 8. Sean's beach prayer 9. Vee's constant "Thank you Jesuses" 10. Nelleh's leading of prayer Survivor is actually an anthropological experiment in the extreme. It is a good study of how people interact together when they form societies. A big part of society is religion, and it has been cool to see how people of diffrent beliefs interact with each other. Any other thoughts....   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Jesus Stuff Survivorerist 05-12-02 1    RE: Jesus Stuff Naked 05-13-02 5        RE: Jesus Stuff Survivorerist 05-13-02 11  RE: Jesus Stuff smiles 05-12-02 2    RE: Religion and Survivor Teddy_Bear 05-12-02 3  RE: Jesus Stuff JeffGator 05-13-02 4    RE: Jesus Stuff smiles 05-13-02 8  RE: Jesus Stuff JohnMc 05-13-02 6  RE: Jesus Stuff Ra_8secs 05-13-02 7    I say leave Jesus at the alter. snoocharoo 05-13-02 9        RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter. Teddy_Bear 05-13-02 10            RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter. corcam 05-13-02 12                RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter. spartan 05-13-02 13                RE: Let Them Lick My Mint Teddy_Bear 05-13-02 14                    RE: Let Them Lick My Mint corcam 05-13-02 15            RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter. snoocharoo 05-14-02 17  RE: Jesus Stuff sittem14 05-14-02 16    RE: Jesus Stuff Fast Eddie 05-14-02 19    RE: Jesus Stuff smiles 05-14-02 20  It's offensive Fast Eddie 05-14-02 18

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Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-12-02, 01:02 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Jesus Stuff " One note to add, naked. Like you did, I also noticed all the different ways that religion was portrayed in the show. Wanting to know more, I ended up asking my religion teacher about it, since he too watches the show. I asked him, "How do you think religion is being portrayed on Survivor?" and he said, "I don't really think religion is being portrayed all that strongly at all." Granted, this was after episode 7, but what do you think about that? ======================= Survivorerist - Oh where oh where did my sig pic go? "I mean to see that we had just turned around like that at the last second and beat 'em at their own game...I think it's just hilarious! Like, I just laughed my head off! Ah ha ha ha..." -Neleh Dennis "Oh for cute!" (Courtesy of Strider )   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 05-13-02, 09:00 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Jesus Stuff " "I don't really think religion is being portrayed all that strongly at all." I would have to disagree with your religion teacher. I think that the faith of the contestants has been pretty well established this season, as well as seasons in the past. Another thought that I had was that although not prodominant, the religious beliefs of the culture that the game is played in has always been addressed. In S1, they where always talking about the "island spirits." in S2, Aboriginal views where portrayed. in S3, We had the "baptism in blood" by the Samburu tribe, and in S4 I'm sure that we will see something at the end of the game.   Top

Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-13-02, 05:51 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Jesus Stuff " >>>I would have to disagree with your religion teacher<<< Yeah, I could see that too. But that's why I noted that I asked him this after episode 7. While the faith aspect of the game may have been established, I don't really think it was elaborated very fully until after the merge. There was the odd-moment or so (Sean and the raft episode 1, Neleh's switch prayer episode 5, Vee's reading the Bible on occasion (episode 3 I think is the time I really remember)) but I could see someone at that point in time saying that the portrayal isn't all that strong, especially for someone who is looking at the show as a viewer rather than someone like us who sits back and analyses the show afterwards on boards like this However, I would definitely agree now that religion has been a major focus of the series at this point in time (episode 11 to put a timestamp on this post) ======================= Survivorerist - Oh where oh where did my sig pic go? (Courtesy of Strider ) "I mean to see that we had just turned around like that at the last second and beat 'em at their own game...I think it's just hilarious! Like, I just laughed my head off! Ah ha ha ha..." -Neleh Dennis   Top

smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-12-02, 07:39 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Jesus Stuff " I think S4 has had more religion than the other installments and I have enjoyed it. In S1 Dirk's religious aspect was viewed negatively, but I think that was because he tried to convert everyone. I remember Rodger having a bible in S2, but that still was not as prevalent as in S4. I wonder if the religious focus has to do with the backlash of 911?   Top

Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-12-02, 08:43 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Religion and Survivor" Hey Naked, you forgot about his holeyness. >I wonder if the religious focus >has to do with the >backlash of 911? I believe it had everything to do with it, Smiles. I recall watching numerous shows discussling the topic of 911 vs. Reality TV. The general consensus was that people had enough REALITY to deal with, also people could not tolerate all the lying and the back-stabbing. Of course, even though s3 majorly sucked anyway, it was never-the-less one of the most poular shows in Canada. In Canada, you don't have to choose between "Friends" and "Survivor", you can watch them both. As far as how MB has portrayed religion this season; I was extremely disapointed that we didn't get to see a whole lot more about the General's luxury item--the voodo doll; it would have made for great television, n'est pas? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Vee: God is still good. The Cream rises to the top. So does the scum. | Light a Virtual Candle Eleanor Roosevelt: No one can make YOU feel inferior without YOUR consent!   Top

JeffGator 1401 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 05-13-02, 04:51 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Jesus Stuff " The aspect of religion on Survivor that I like is that many different religions have been represented (even though many have not). I think it's really neat for us to see a Survivor with the same religion as the one we have. My roommates are pretty hardcore christians who watch the show, so they like it when Sean and Vee talk about Christianity. An ex girlfriend of mine is Mormon, and she feels like Neleh is doing a good job representing her religion. Being Jewish, it's been interesting to see Sean Kenniff and Ethan. I personally am not a big fan of when people preach on about their religions on the show. And I think Sean R. and Vee have done a lot of that. On the other hand, I respect Neleh a lot because even though she is a strong Mormon, she doesn't throw it in people's faces. And I don't think Sean K. or Ethan ever even mentioned being Jewish. I know that Dirk did talk about Christianity, but I think he did it in a pretty respectful way, so I respect that. Although, someone else posted that he tried to convert people. If that's true, I might lose a little respect for him. I do like it when MB shows us about the Survivors' personal lives because it makes them seem more human and I just can feel closer to them. So I guess that showing them talk about their religion is just one way of doing that.   Top

smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-02, 02:02 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Jesus Stuff " JG, I am confused. When did Sean and Vee "preach"? I only saw them reference Jesus (in a confessional), say a prayer, or say thank you Jesus. I never saw them try to explain Christianity or tell someone else about it. Dirk did much more "preaching" so to speak. I remember Susan and Rudy complaining about it.   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-13-02, 01:03 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Jesus Stuff " Does this mean that Ethan wins?   Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-13-02, 01:30 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Jesus Stuff " This is a nice thread, ty Naked. And Smiles and Teddy_Bear make good points. I think all the Survivors have made reference to religion and especially the site's aboriginal spirituality. But S4, because of the post 9/11 reality-check for us all, seems to have displayed things more openly. I'd like to make a point about the difference between religion and spirituality. Religion is a social club. Spirituality is one's own appreciation of whatever one wishes to call "God(s)." We've had it all in S4: Peter's Holy Yoga stuff. A tiny poke at Rob's voodoo doll. Sean's baptism. Both Neleh and Vee have led prayer groups Vee's the typical black church type, yelling all around Neleh's the typical mormon, calm and quite (OMH) John's crucifixtion pose at the waterfall Paschal has demonstrated his faith So has Robert, in his own way Kathy has the beautiful "whatever you want to do, babe" attitude In sum, as Naked said, there's a lot more of the social bonding anthropological analyses this S4 than in the past. It's a little hidden, but I'm glad it's made it past the usual filters of liberal censorship on the broadcast media. I like it. and hugs and sunshine for all, Ra   Top

snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-13-02, 04:37 PM (EST) 9. "I say leave Jesus at the alter." I am glad that someone brought up the religious undertones of this show because IMHO it's all BS. Survivor is about 16 DAW playing a game and utilizing every backstabbing, coniving, scheming strategy possible to win $1M. What a bunch of hypocrites! The very fiber of this TV Reality Game is contrary to what organized religion teaches (remember the whole "money is the root of all evil" and "do unto others..." non-sense they brainwashed you with in Sunday school?). What does god have to do with the game of Survivor? NOTHING! This religious angle is only being used by EPMB to appease the kinder,gentler, blissfully ignnorant post 9/11 masses and suck their Reebok wearing, Sierra Mist drinking, Dorito munching butts in for another episode (and Survivor Buff purchases on that VISA card). There is no socio-anthropological analysis here...it's just a case of good timing and competent marketing. IMHO please leave Jesus at the alter this is a TV GAME SHOW not the 700 Club. Hope no one takes this personally, just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions.   Top

Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-13-02, 05:05 PM (EST) 10. "RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter." Snoocharoo, I must disagree with you--partially anway. I could definatly do without all of the annoying Veejus rants. However religion like anything else expounded on in this game, is a legitimate part of Survivor. When I heard inVEEsible praise Jesus--for the umpteenth time, I did not get a sudden urge for either Snickers or Sierra Mist. However you may feel about Burn-it representin' religion, please don't confuse that with all the shameless product placement. I vehementally disagree with you about the sociological aspects of Survivor. I'm not saying that they're not media whores--of course, they are; that does not mean that Survivor and any "quality" Reality TV Show, doesn't reveal to the viewers a microcosm of society. The subject of Sean, is a perfect example of this. When he originally started his racially based complaining, I thought that HE had the problem; when I surfed the net and all the different Basher boards (ours is the best, BTW!!!) re-acting to it, I realised that maybe, just maybe he might actually have a point. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Peter: Me and Sean, we're sittin' here, just chillin'. The Cream rises to the top. So does the scum. | Light a Virtual Candle Eleanor Roosevelt: No one can make YOU feel inferior without YOUR consent!   Top

corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-13-02, 06:40 PM (EST) 12. "RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter." They make religion a big part in Survivor, kind of like Big Tom and his ranting about Ethan at the food auction and him not eating pig meat due to his religious beliefs. They make it in some ways funny, serious, a tad bit to extreme (hence Vee), and everything in between. In a quote from Little Nicky "Jesus this, Moses that, Abraham hit me with a wiffle ball bat"   Top

spartan 280 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-13-02, 06:55 PM (EST) 13. "RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter." I've enjoyed the religous elements of the show, as they have been presented, but I have to say, Vee's act is wearing thin for me. When she did her little post-IC win scream/speech about/to Jesus, it put me over the edge. If I end up in Heaven, and I find that God is overseeing reality TV shows, I'm going to be one pissed off puppy. If God is moved to be influencing events, I'm hoping that S/He is dealing with oh, I don't know, cancer and not Immunity Challenges. Before anyone steps up to point it out to me- I'll admit that sports stars do exactly the same thing - and get the same reaction from me. A small Kevin Costner quote from "For Love of the Game": "Lord, I've never asked you for help in a baseball game. It always seemed kind of silly. You probably have better things to do..."   Top

Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-13-02, 07:47 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Let Them Lick My Mint" Corcam, I'm so glad you're on this board. When I saw this pic of "Neleh Antoinette," It had me holding my sore tummy (from chat, last night), ROTFLMAF!!! Somwhere there's an edgy over-the-top, sarcastic mag that desperatly needs you! First you bring us the pic of the pink General in drag, now this--C you really rock girl! If you keep this up, I might need help getting off of the floor! BTW Spartan, I fully agree and relish (don't get any ideas, Dianetic) your baseball quote. I fully agree; they should also heed that advice at award shows. They should say something to the effect of: "I want to thank my mother and father for having me, and making all of this possible." LOL. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Sean (about neleH in the waterfall): I can already hear her big mouth from here. The Cream rises to the top. So does the scum. | Light a Virtual Candle Eleanor Roosevelt: No one can make YOU feel inferior without YOUR consent!   Top

corcam 374 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-13-02, 10:59 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Let Them Lick My Mint" I can't take credit for the Neleh picture I got that I think at Survivor Sucks but Robert I drew the dress with my own little hand LOL.... when I saw that pic of Neleh I about lost my lunch I couldnt stop laughing.   Top

snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-14-02, 11:28 AM (EST) 17. "RE: I say leave Jesus at the alter." I vehementally disagree with you about the sociological aspects of Survivor. I'm not saying that they're not media whores--of course, they are; that does not mean that Survivor and any "quality" Reality TV Show, doesn't reveal to the viewers a microcosm of society. TB, I agree that Survivor in and of itself does give us a snapshot into a micrcosm of well screened and selected portion of society and the reactions of the individuals residing there, I don't agree that religion is a motivational factor behind what you see and therefore shouldn't be in the equation at all. Religion plays a small role for some but for the majority religion is no motivating factor. Let's be honest here and drop the polysyllabic theories, it's about the benjamins and the recognition. The money is the true element that drives the action of the individuals on this show regardless of whether they believe in God, Budda, Alah, Visnu or Confucious. Take the money out of the game I think then you get an accurate, polerized view of human behavior in a Survival situation where sociological issues like religion, mores and norms take a staring role. Excellent argument TB by the way...I always enjoy your P.O.V. even if it differs from my own.   Top

sittem14 112 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-14-02, 08:13 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Jesus Stuff " Naked, "any other thoughts".. you ask..well, just a few. However, I do feel a little like Jimmy Carter visiting Cuba - thankful for the opportunity, but just a tad bit cautious. Thank goodness this is fanatics and not bashers. It'll be a refreshing change to discuss Jesus over here. First, your anthropoligical paragraph is right on - to me this is by far the most interesting aspect of the show. I'm really more interested in how people do interact together in a stressful situation like this than I am about the $1M. And, by extension, being a person of faith, I am most interested in the faith expressions I encounter on the show. Faith expressions are foundational in all societies and cultures and this microcosm of culture would be much less interesting (to me) without it. Many of those commenting before me made excellent observations in addition to N - Smiles, JG, RA, TB. I don't always agree with all of what you say, but this has been a very nice little discussion thread. I was gonna make observations about S1-S3, but many other good ones have already been made (how about the changes Michael S. has made spiritually because of his Survivor experiences? I could go on about that, but this'll already be to long). This thread gives me a chance to respond to my friend Fast Eddie (thanks Naked for the opportunity!!) who stated in his Gofu on Bashers - #2 gofu - "Vee and her (supposed) Big Guy ally. Surely not even Sittem still believes that she is merely expressing her beliefs rather than asking (or thanking) for intervention." Sorry, Eddie (and many others of you). I'm with Vee on this one. Vee is the type of person who thanks the BG in the morning for a new day, for just waking up and being in her right mind (which you may dispute!). And, when she get's the boot she'll still be thanking the BG because she knows He loves her and cares for her in all circumstances, win or lose. Life is not about winning or losing or $1M anyway. It's about living faithfully and above all glorifying the BG. The fact that S, Vee and any others that confess JC make mistakes, don't always play with integrity just proves that they/we are human. None of us confessing christians are perfect (I have a sense you know that!!), but we know we are forgiven and it's impossible to not be thankful for that - constantly. Now, I don't expect Fast Eddie or many others of you to believe that or understand that and I'm not surprised it's constantly bashed. Finally, of any of the christians on the S shows, I think S and V are the most out front about their faith (can't represent Dirk here - I saw Survivor for the first time the night he was booted). In my experience as a white person, that's more out front than most of us feel comfortable with. Even in church most whites cringe at joyous, loud outward expressions of worship (I've seen many paniced expressions from white folk at our church when we really get going!). It's just not our style. I think we're dealing with a cultural expression most whites (whether spiritual or not) feel uncomfortable about. Ultimately, most of us feel S and V are hypocrites and disengenous by being so out there with their professions when they obviously don't have it all together - integrity, honestly, anger, etc. Well, if we waited to praise the BG until we were perfect, then the very rocks themselves would cry out in praise because God will be praised. Oh, oh - I'm gonna preach here. Ah!! - for your devotional today, just read Psalms 145 and 150. There's just never enough time or space to say what I want. Also, check out Psalm 8, 19, 30, 65, 84, 96, 100, 136. Naked - you shouldn't have gotten me started!!   Top

Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-02, 01:29 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Jesus Stuff " > Surely not even Sittem >still believes that she is >merely expressing her beliefs rather >than asking (or thanking) for >intervention." > >Sorry, Eddie (and many others of >you). I'm with Vee >on this one. I thought you were going to tell us why you felt this way, but the remainder of the paragraph was not relevant to the incident. I'm sure Vee does all those things you said, but the issue was her motivation in her actions at winning immunity. Do you really believe she would have rejoiced like that if she'd lost? Do you really believe she was not thanking Jesus for giving her the win? If so, may I respectfully (since you can't see my face, I'll simply tell you that I mean that word) suggest that you are wearing blinkers, a blindfold and earplugs. > I am most interested in the faith expressions I encounter on the show. Would you feel the same way if the faith expressions were of Islam, Judaism, aetheism, etc? Or are you so interested because it happens to mirror your own? (To be fair to my friend, I put the same question to myself. In principle, I'd still speak out against it, but I have to admit, I'd feel a lot more positive if they reflected my beliefs instead.) All Americans should be thankful to their Founding Fathers for mandating the separation of church and state. Unfortunately, there is no requirement to separate church and game show, though all other game shows have respected this.   Top

smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-02, 03:34 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Jesus Stuff " LAST EDITED ON 05-14-02 AT 03:35 PM (EST) I'm with you! I understand. You (and David) said it the best! I guess I too have a hard time understanding why people get so offended by other people referencing God. I am a Christian and when bin Laden was praising Allah, it didn't bother me. I knew what I believed and was secure in my belief (faith), so I wasn't threatened or offended. It is funny though, after 911 everyone was so quick to say "God Bless America," but before that God forbid that you would mention his name in school or in government entities. But after 911 we had a "National Day of Prayer." I think that is why S & V's faith is being highlighted so much in S4. In S1 Dirk was a virgin because of his beliefs, but I think that was only mentioned on one or two episodes. And you didn't hear too much about him before that. I too am with Vee and I do say thank you Jesus for everything. Because if God takes care of birds and the grass, then He takes care of every little thing in my life too, win or loose. (Luke 12:22-28) Sittem14, why did you get me started?   Top

Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-02, 01:05 PM (EST) 18. "It's offensive" >I think that it has >been pretty cool throughout the >Survivor series that religion has >been addressed in so many >diffrent ways. I'll try and >point out some of the >ways that I remember. "So many different ways"? All you listed were Christian fundamentalist, except Linda, and that wasn't exactly religion. > A big >part of society is religion, >and it has been cool >to see how people of >diffrent beliefs interact with each >other. What different beliefs? The two who were Jewish never said a word about it and S3 almost completely ignored religion. 98% of what we've seen has been fundamentalist Christian. Put a Catholic, an orthodox Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, a Hindu, a Taoist, an aetheist, an agnostic, a pagan, a Jehovah's Witness and a few others together. Then it'll be cool to see how people of truly different beliefs interact. Let me ask you this: if Vee were Muslim and went around saying "Praise Allah" all the time and jumping up and down yelling "Thank You, Allah" when she won immunity, would you feel the same way? The insertion of people's personal religious feelings into a game show started out as mildly annoying, then very annoying and is now downright offensive. She left it 35 years ago, but my wife remembers vividly the overt and covert discrimination she suffered as a child, teen and young adult Jehovah's Witness. The show is bringing it all back and causing her to turn against it. I'll bet Ethan is sure happy he wasn't in this crowd. He wouldn't have stood a chance.   Top

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