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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-30-06, 08:15 PM (EST) "The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" The last season hardly seems over with Exile Island just around the corner. I hope and expect people who have been diligently gathering information about this season will put their information here in order to help assess how this season may play out with respect to the themes and which players may encompass them the best. We were given bits and pieces by Jeff on the players for Exile Island which sometimes helps in ascertaining their longevity or just give us an idea on how they may fare. As some of you may know, I love dime store psychology along with noting the patterns over the seasons on why people fail in this game as well as why they may win outside of winning challenges or twists in the game. It seems fairly certain every season that there are players highlighted for their "characters" We almost always see storylines build, remain consistent or get noticeable shifts which help assist us. The stories interwoven with the game are fascinating for a lot of us. With the season named "Exile Island" it should most definitely be intriguing. The Game Being Exiled We have and EXTREMELY interesting twist that will no doubt lull us with misdirection. One person has the misfortune (or fortune?) in being "exiled" This twist will be fascinating in terms of psychological game play but it also may hinder some editing patterns that have been consistent. Those who are banished to their own island will no doubt be featured at some point during their banishment. Thus, face time and confessionals can be misleading. We often can pinpoint longevity based on these factors. However, I would expect those exiled to receive their "camera due" It is up to objective viewing to discern if this extra television time is merely showing the situation OR building a story about a long term player In conjunction with this relatively new feature of the game (Janu introduced us to it) there can be benefits and/or detriments to this twist. Psychologically speaking, think of how those who are exiled can use their time alone to wreak havoc on their tribe members even if the hidden idol is NOT found. If the exiled person is always "chosen" by their tribemates, this lends to a whole new dynamic. Is this person chosen BECAUSE he/she is not well received by their tribe OR is this person chosen by a controlling majority for strategic purposes? Initial Tribe Formation In light of the fact that initially the four tribes will only consist of four members, there will probably be EXTREMELY early signs of alliance building. With such a little amount of tribe members, human nature dictates that the contestants will feel they need to form a quick "bond" or "agreement" to further their safety. They have no "numbers luxury" One can't be "under the radar" with only four people in the sense that one can be overlooked with such small company. The personalities of these individuals situated together (if only briefly) would certainly seem to shed light as to whom may stick together after the tribes are reformed and who will then gravitate towards their newly joined members. The Players The construction of the tribes at first is a fascinating breakdown for those of us who try to analyze how age and gender behave. We've seen how older/younger, male/female personalities work on this show and being insulated among their "own" (so to speak) is always interesting to watch. In the Amazon with males and females segregated, the men immediately congratulated themselves on the advantage (which did not bode as well as they thought) and the women were intent on making sure they gave the men a "run for their money" In those tribes, there were breakdowns as well. The women (for the most part) gravitated towards those who were more like them since there were greater numbers and this occurred (for the most part) with the men as well. Though there were a few (Deena, Dave for example) who did not "stick" with their age group, for the most part there was a separation of age amongst the separation of gender. Since this season has already taken care of that, personality and similar interests/backgrounds should play the biggest part in whom bonds with whom. Jeff indicates in his interview that this season's contestants are similar to Palau, eager to play this game. Last season got extremely personal with the blindsiding and turning on alliances; we may want to keep in mind that this season may reflect a more "order of business" where those we see banding together stay together. That, naturally, is extremely speculative with nothing to go on but a guess. Jeff also states in his description "we have the older guys, the older women, they'll love that, the younger guys and the younger women. Sometimes what Jeff does say about a contestant pre-show is telling and sometimes it is misleading. Since I do this every season, these are the comments about the past three winners, which I like to note just to help encompass how Jeff discusses the characters. "Danni is someone that I think people are probably going to get behind. She's in great shape. She's tall and she's got a competition background" "Tom is salt-of-the-earth guy. A father. A firefighter. There's no chance of this guy being a villain. You hope he lasts long enough in the game to be a hero. If he does last for a while, he's the kind of guy who could win it, because people are going to look at him and say, You know what, why not him? Everything about him is good." "If Chris is everything he reports to be, he'll do just fine in the game, that's the question. Is he putting on a really this strong "I'll tackle anything bring it on, you can't beat me kind of guy? I don't know. I think he's one of the guys that could either emerge as really strong or fade fast" Also, a guy you know will play the game like Mariano; super exciting to us....." (Recall this is coming off from All Stars) The Older Men Dan "Survivor is a very interesting model, for long duration space flight. It's exactly what long duration crews are going to have to deal with and that is, how you get along with this diverse group of people in a stressful situation. Being able to tolerate how other people do stuff is a really important skill to have" Jeff: "He's a former astronaut. ASTRONAUT. He's been up. Playing this game, I think he's very well suited" Dan definitely has his finger on the pulse on how to play this game and there is no question that his former career is an asset with respect to close quarter relating, remaining calm and in control. Older men typically do okay in this show PROVIDED they do not go overboard in a leadership role where the other tribe members feel patronized. Dan's appearance and his brief words do not strike me as an intrusive figure. Jeff is positive about him as well but not too in depth about Dan so I'm of the impression for right now that Dan is not a "wave maker" but a steady player. Terry "We were watching Tom get his million dollars awhile back from Palau. And my wife looked over at me... who is even more competitive than I am.... and says, "Would you like to do that?" And I was like, "Hell, yeah." Jeff: "If Terry can get in with the right group of people and keep numbers on his side until he gets to an individual part of the game, watch out. That dude could win it." Terri certainly sounds like a force to be reckoned with by his own admissions (and Jeff's) I know nothing about pilots but the "need for speed" but with that, his snippet and Jeff's comment, he does seem to be a very charged and driven person. He and Dan actually may get along quite well as Dan "appears" somewhat more low key which may mesh well with Terry. Both have some common factors in their professions and are family men. Jeff's deduction about Terry keeping numbers on his side is an obvious assessment as Terry is someone who is a seemingly threatening player. With that, you have someone who can steam roll the competition Shane "I've watched the show since the get-go and I was fascinated by the Machiavellian nature of it all. I really thought that I'd be great for the show and I used to watch the show all the time and yell at people because they were making a vital error. And I was just through yelling at the television. So now I'm here and I'm going to yell at some other people." Jeff :" I like him as a character but if he plays the way he's been showing us, he'll be a short timer. Ah, Shane sounds like he has researched Richard Hatch's style of playing or hopes to be somewhat like him. Shane, by Jeff's own words would indeed be someone that for the duration of his stay may be highlighted in that "character" mode however, it does stand to reason that he may not be in tune with Terry or Dan. His longevity may only be dictated by how well the tribe he is on does. Bruce "I taught backpacking for 19 years. 25 years ago I ran the John Muir Trail and set a record. Karate has taught all of the elements of Survivor for me. When I teach, I like to do about 2000 techniques a night. The knowledge I have for surviving is, I could write a book" Jeff: If Bruce is smart enough to realize, okay, I better quiet down. he'll be okay. Okay, prediction, he won't realize it As I am only privy to the comments made, I do not know exactly where Jeff's remark comes from regarding "quieting down" Perhaps someone can enlighten me? Be that as it may, martial arts takes immense discipline and self control so I'm quite interested in Jeff's opinion as I do believe Bruce would have the control required. With the above group, on paper, Shane seems to be the one who may have the most problems in this small group. However, like the other groups, this is temporary and the tribes will become larger so for longevity purposes it is hard to discern. However if relationships are acquired early in light of the small numbers, it is suggestive Shane may have a problem The Older Women Ruth Marie: "I'm a long distance runner...umm...endurance type thing. I get better as things get worse. I think I'll be perceived on the very front end as the opposite of that. The worse things get, the better I personally get." Jeff: "Ruth Marie is the oldest woman out here and arguably in as good of shape as any woman out here" Well it certainly sounds as if physically, she will be valued in such a small group. At this point, one can only foresee how she may fare in comparison to the other older women. She may be highly valued by them in terms of her athleticism. By her own words, she does well under stress and pressure. Then again, this game is a different type of pressure many people are no accustomed. Tina "I was 10 days from leaving to Guatemala when my 16 year old son was killed in a car accident which obviously prevented me from going. So, I just picked him up in my heart and off we go. I choose to live my life. I started out as a log roller. When I started out, it was in the sixties. Log rolling was the only sport available to women." Jeff: "We said, if you feel like it and it somehow seems like the right thing to do, you're welcome back next season. Tina is a lumberjill. Tina is a very likable Sue Hawk. You can't help but pull for somebody like that." I have no doubt that Tina may be a favorite among the viewers. She sounds like she has a strong spirit and obvious will. Tina, for as long as she is there may be someone highlighted by the editing with such a inspiring back story as unique career. Melinda : I am an entertainer. I sing and dance in production shows. People find out that's what I do and they are like, "oh, sing." And no, I don't. That's just not something that I, (snaps fingers) crank out a tune." I did not see a comment by Jeff and I take care not to peruse too much so as to avoid information I do not want to see. However, based on Melinda's background and those of Tina and Ruth Marie, Melinda may not have quite as much in common. Cirie: "I'm a couch potato and I wanted to do some things before I got too old. I love the show. I wanted to just challenge myself and see how far I can make it. I think I can win. I'm cute and funny but don't play" Jeff: "Cirie represents everybody who's ever sat at home and said, "I could do that." But they never got up off the couch. Cirie got up off the couch and she's on this show. I think her little bubbly-ness is probably a bit of a mask for a player underneath who might be better than we think." From Cirie's and Jeff's description, Cirie sounds like a contestant who will be someone we hear from quite a bit. Good personality goes a long way. Physically wise, she may be in some trouble but as we know, in this game, it is not necessarily something that will cost a player especially if they host a good mental game. If Cirie meshes well with her group, her lack of athletic ability may be forgiven. Out of these four, Melinda may have the most trouble. Cirie's own statement, however about just seeing how far she can make it would initially tell me she is mainly there to see how she does as opposed to the actual win. The Younger Men Aras "The yoga tradition teaches like non-greediness, and not lying and all those things. So it will be a real challenge to me to apply some of those yoga principles to this game where it rewards truly like the Gordon Gekkos of the world." Jeff: "I'm not sure what he's bringing. He's bringing a lot of talk. Does he know how to play Survivor? We'll find out. That's all I've got on Aras. " Interesting commentary by Jeff in that he seems to be somewhat cryptic about Aras or honestly cannot put a finger on him which may not be a bad thing as we discussed last season. Physically Aras would do well and it will be interesting to see how or if his principles are relayed to the viewers. Nick "I'd hate to be over prepared in a way. Hopefully there's someone in our tribe that really knows what they're doing. That would be great. But it makes it more fun, you go through it together. Have some fun with it rather than one or two people really knowing what they're doing. I'll play my game. Whatever happens, happens" Jeff: "Is he athletic? Yeah. Is that worth much in Survivor? A little." I'm not feeling very positive about Nick's longevity based on his and Jeff's commentary. I'm still mulling over his discussion about being over prepared and hoping someone else knows what they are doing. Jeff's comments are also not exactly favorable. Again, misdirection always plays a part but at this juncture, if Nick himself sounds somewhat concerned and blase about his future, then I'm not overly optimistic either. Austin: "In "The Amazing Race Family Edition", my family was one of the finalists for that show. I joked around with the casting director later on, I said, "I don't know what the spark you saw in me was but I'm glad you're under that false misconception." Because here I am." I did not see any commentary by Jeff. Needless to say, Austin certainly had a certain something that enabled him to come to this show. He appears to have a wit about him and could certainly be highlighted in "character" mode. As always with characters, how well they do also depends upon on how grating they could end up being. Bobby "In terms of the survival stuff, I figure the tougher it gets the better it is for me because, you know, I'm a genius and I'll figure it out. I don't know how to make fire but I do know how to destroy people and I'm bringing that to the table. The things that are going to help me are that I'm buff, I'm bold and I'm beautiful. I think the things that are going to hurt me are the fact that I'm buff, I'm bold and I'm beautiful. There's no way for me to fly under the radar. Jeff: He went to Stanford and has a law degree but he walks around talking about it like he's a world wrestler or something. So, I really don't know. Needless to say, I don't know either. I'm sure Bobby will be a regular on our screens as a very highly defined personality. On paper, he may be a bit too overwhelming and unless someone else on this small tribe does something concrete to get voted off, Bobby does not appear to be someone who will be tolerated for very long. The Younger Women Sally "This is my 5th audition tape, actually, so apparently the 5th time is the charm for me. I've seen people in this game that are like, "I don't want to vote this person off." I'm like, "what are you doing? Vote 'em off." Jeff: " Sally, I think, gets the game and she might know that the place to stay is somewhere in the middle, never on the bottom, never at the top. Sally, being a true fan of this show probably could do fairly well. Her method of operation is always a safe one but does this get you to the winner's circle? I would say that in a small tribe of four, Sally should blend in and could blend in well into the game. It is a question of observation from us whether she makes it to the end however. Danielle "Bostonians, we're a different breed of people, you know. We're strong, we're tough. If somebody tries to demean me or piss me off per se, I might have to bite my tongue a little bit tighter than usual. Jeff: "Danielle is definitely the most puzzling going into this game. Cause when we put her on this show in casting she's full of personality and she got out here on the beach and it just went... swooosh. Nothing. Not a peep. Danielle, like Sandra realizes that she would have to bite her tongue. Unlike Sandra, Danielle appears to have done so. This will be interesting to watch as we know people generally cannot change their character. At this juncture, my interest lies in how far Danielle can hold her tongue and whether she succeeds. Misty: "What's helped me develop a little more strategy for Survivor is that, never, not for one second, get comfortable. Everyone is so shocked to hear that I am an engineer. I'm used to being underestimated and I hope that continues throughout this game." I did not see a comment by Jeff. Misty is a beauty pageant contestant as well as an engineer. Which persona will she be based on? In a group of women, being pretty is potentially harmful unless you have solid numbers. Again, however, these tribes will be short lived so it is hard to determine. Courtney: "I dance with fire and I dance on stilts. I do work on a trapeze. I've worked on Cirque du Soleil. So I provide a good time." Again, I do not see a commentary provided by Jeff. Courtney certainly sounds like a very interesting person and I would believe she would provide athletic ability as well. In terms of this foursome, someone who provides a good time will either do just that or be overbearing which remains to be seen. A sketchy blue print to start off on our quest and after the first episode the characters are certainly more defined. Since the first episode is only days away a once over just by face and blurbs is usually how we start out. With this unique set up, however, it is unlikely until the second episode with different tribe formations, will we have a better grasp since these groups do not lastlong. We know that commonly that those who work hard bond better, those who attempt to lead too soon are in danger and those who do nothing are branded as well. Again, with the exiling twist, I will have to remind myself that face time for that person does not necessarily mean longevity either and a typical reason for a boot such as the OLDEST will probably not be the first reason for someone to go. I am looking forward to everyone's posts so my head stays on straight for what appears to be a very original and potentially exciting season with these new twists!   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... Flowerpower 01-30-06 1  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... DRONES 01-31-06 2  woooooooooohooooooo emydi 01-31-06 3    RE: woooooooooohooooooo VerucaSalt 01-31-06 4        RE: woooooooooohooooooo emydi 02-01-06 11  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... michel 01-31-06 5  RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... Outfrontgirl 02-01-06 6    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... Flowerpower 02-01-06 7        RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... VerucaSalt 02-01-06 8            RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... Outfrontgirl 02-01-06 9                RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... vince3 02-01-06 10                    RE: The Players, The Game, The Edi... Outfrontgirl 02-01-06 13            JP on the women players Outfrontgirl 02-01-06 12                RE: JP on the women players Flowerpower 02-01-06 14                    First Episode VerucaSalt 02-03-06 15                        RE: First Episode: all action or al... michel 02-03-06 16                        RE: First Episode PepeLePew13 02-04-06 18                        RE: First Episode Whole Lotta Rosie 02-04-06 19                        RE: First Episode MDSkinner 02-06-06 21                        RE: First Episode Surviette 02-07-06 23                        RE: First Episode DRONES 02-09-06 25  ! applejack93 02-03-06 17    downloads Outfrontgirl 02-04-06 20        RE: VerucaSalt 02-07-06 22            RE: Flowerpower 02-08-06 24  Episode 2: Headgames michel 02-11-06 26    RE: Episode Two VerucaSalt 02-11-06 27        RE: Episode Two michel 02-12-06 28            RE: Episode Two VerucaSalt 02-13-06 29                RE: Episode Two Whole Lotta Rosie 02-13-06 30                    RE: Episode Two Surviette 02-14-06 31                        RE: Episode Two michel 02-14-06 32  Nothing to add except thanks! CutsyTootsy 02-14-06 33    RE: Nothing to add except thanks! VerucaSalt 02-15-06 34        RE: Nothing to add except thanks! emydi 02-15-06 35            RE: Nothing to add except thanks! MDSkinner 02-15-06 36                RE: Nothing to add except thanks! Brownroach 02-15-06 37                    RE: Nothing to add except thanks! architecturegirl 02-15-06 38                        RE: Nothing to add except thanks! Brownroach 02-15-06 39                            RE: Nothing to add except thanks! Flowerpower 02-15-06 40                                Discussion VerucaSalt 02-16-06 41  Post Ep 3 Flowerpower 02-17-06 42    RE: Post Ep 3 VerucaSalt 02-18-06 43        RE: Post Ep 3 Flowerpower 02-18-06 44        RE: Post Ep 3 knuckles487 02-18-06 45            RE: Post Ep 3 michel 02-18-06 46                RE: Post Ep 3 VerucaSalt 02-20-06 47                    RE: Post Ep 3 architecturegirl 02-20-06 49                        RE: Post Ep 3 VerucaSalt 02-20-06 50                            RE: Post Ep 3 michel 02-20-06 51                    RE: Post Ep 3 Outfrontgirl 02-22-06 54        RE: Post Ep 3 Surviette 02-20-06 48            RE: Post Ep 3 Whole Lotta Rosie 02-22-06 53        RE: Post Ep 3 critter42 02-21-06 52            RE: Post Ep 3 michel 02-22-06 55                RE: Post Ep 3 Outfrontgirl 02-22-06 56  Preliminary thoughts on Ep r Outfrontgirl 02-24-06 57    RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r Flowerpower 02-24-06 58        RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r mockingbird 02-24-06 59            RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r Outfrontgirl 02-24-06 62                RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r emydi 02-24-06 63                RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r Scarlett O Hara 02-26-06 76    RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r Brownroach 02-24-06 60  Post Ep 4 thoughts emydi 02-24-06 61    RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts VerucaSalt 02-24-06 64        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts emydi 02-24-06 65        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Brownroach 02-24-06 66            RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts michel 02-24-06 67                RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Outfrontgirl 02-25-06 68                    RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Brownroach 02-27-06 78        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Outfrontgirl 02-25-06 69            RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Flowerpower 02-25-06 70                RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts mockingbird 02-25-06 71                    RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts michel 02-25-06 72                        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Flowerpower 02-25-06 73                            RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Karchita 02-25-06 75                    RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Brownroach 02-27-06 79                RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts emydi 02-25-06 74                    RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts VerucaSalt 02-27-06 77                        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts michel 02-27-06 80                            RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts I_Contheminion 02-27-06 81                                RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Outfrontgirl 02-28-06 83                        RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts Surviette 02-27-06 82                            RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts VerucaSalt 03-03-06 84                                RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts Flowerpower 03-03-06 85                                    RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts michel 03-03-06 86                                    RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts miyagimayday 03-04-06 87                                    RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts saucydiva 03-04-06 88                                        RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts Surviette 03-04-06 89  Tribal Dynamics michel 03-05-06 90  Post Ep 5 thoughts Velcrohead 03-05-06 91  Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island Whole Lotta Rosie 03-05-06 92    RE: Comments VerucaSalt 03-06-06 93        RE: Comments Brownroach 03-06-06 96    RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island michel 03-06-06 94        RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island architecturegirl 03-06-06 95            RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island Surviette 03-06-06 97    RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island emydi 03-06-06 98        RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island Brownroach 03-06-06 99            RE: The HII in Terry's pants montanagirl 03-06-06 100                RE: The HII in Terry's pants Brownroach 03-06-06 101                    RE: The HII in Terry's pants montanagirl 03-07-06 107                        RE: The HII in Terry's pants Brownroach 03-08-06 109                            RE: The HII in Terry's pants montanagirl 03-09-06 113        RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island Whole Lotta Rosie 03-07-06 108  Coconut chopping... redciv23 03-07-06 102    RE: Coconut chopping... VerucaSalt 03-07-06 103        RE: Second Viewing architecturegirl 03-07-06 104            RE: Second Viewing Flowerpower 03-07-06 105                RE: Second Viewing redciv23 03-07-06 106                    RE: Second Viewing VerucaSalt 03-08-06 110                        RE: Second Viewing Brownroach 03-08-06 111                        RE: Second Viewing Surviette 03-08-06 112                            RE: Second Viewing VerucaSalt 03-14-06 114

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-30-06, 11:54 PM (EST) 1. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" LAST EDITED ON 01-30-06 AT 11:58 PM (EST) Woooo HOOOO! VS, I've been waiting and watching for you and I'm thrilled to be the first one in! I've been getting the SOTS for the first ep prepared and thus have done some reading on all of these daws, and I do have a few things to add. As always I must say your intro to the season is right on target with your impressions of the tribal breakdowns and specifically the numbers within the tribes and how that may affect the game. It's really going to be fun to see how the exile thing impacts the game, and as us spoilers suspect, it may have a drastic impact on the first exilee, as they are one of 4, and we know that the dynamics will be changed as in ep 2 they will form 2 tribes. So here's my take so far.... First of all I've noticed that there are indeed ALOT of good athletes in this bunch, alot of division 1 college players. Moreso than I think I've noticed in any other season.....also alot of gymnasts and marathoners. Las Minas: Jiffy noted in the TVGuide preview tv show that typically the older men and the younger ladies fare the best. Dan is a real stand out figure and probably is the semi celebrity of the season, imo. He's not striking as an athlete, but what drives him from within is fascinating and I don't think that he comes across as omnipotent or intimidating. I think his social skills are going to work for him here, his body language in the tribe shots speaks volumes to me. He's resting his hand on anothers shoulder, or has his arm around another. I really like this guy. He'll be a genious at puzzles and mental challenges and a hard worker to boot. He was well liked by Jiffy and by the press corps. Terry: A fighter pilot and retired reservist, now an American Airlines Pilot. An allstar athlete in high school and played D1 baseball at the Naval Academy, now does Pilates. Very disciplined and driven as well, but notes his wife is even more competitive. Seems very genuine and easy going with his tribe, from the pics I've seen. I'm sure he'll be a serious competitor. I like him! I think he'll do well in the first three days with his all male tribe... Bruce: Has alot to offer the game with the years of backpacking experience, and he was an eagle scout. Wants to be the Mr. Miyagi of Survivor. He just could be....seems pleasant enough, I'll wait and hold judgement on him concerning Jiffy's worry that he may not keep his mouth shut. Oldest Survivor there. Shane: He's definately a wild card. Chain smoker(3 packs/day),and habitual coffee drinker as well....he's in for some serious trouble out there with withdrawel from nicotine and caffeine....wonder how that will affect his first few days out there with his all male tribe? Wants to be a schemer, let's see if he can live up to the Rich Hatch standards.... Casaya: Ruth Marie: I think she's awesome, a very serious marathon competitor and she makes us 40 something babes look GOOD!!! Should be a great physical asset to the tribe. Doesn't seem too verbose, looks like a worker, I like her! Tina: Tina does have the sympathy card right off the bat....and you never know what all that isolation out there could do with your head. She definately has the personality and seems level headed and a hard worker. She'll be more of an asset to the tribe, but compared to the young girls and Ruth Marie, I don't think she's one of the most athletic women out there. I have mixed feelings regarding her longevity. I think she may or could come across as bossy out there, and if she does that at all, she could be toast. Cirie: Definately a fun character that alot of us can relate to. She hired a personal trainer, ran and swam to lose 30 pounds before coming on the show.....says she's really strong. But, as with Tina, compared to the young babes and Ruth Marie, she's not going to be remembered for her athleticism. I'm with Jiffy, I think there will be more to her than she's showing. Melinda: Singer, has fake nails on, says she jogs...doesn't look like she jogs too far, imo....she would be my pick for first to be out of the girls tribe....but she could be saved if she makes it to ep 2(I'm betting she will), with the extra numbers. Press corps also thought she'd be out first of the older girls. Viveros: Aras: Jiffy thinks he's still looking for "who he is". I think he must be pretty grounded with all that yoga, amoung other things. Very well schooled to be a yoga instructor....somehow doesn't quite fit. Serious athlete, basketball player, now doing the Yoga....doesn't seem too verbal, I get the impression from the vidcaps that he'll be the one the others flock to in his tribe....just what I see. Nick: "Frat boy", very athletic and buff, trying to go to law school, in his bio he mentioned "his boys", is he a dad at his age? If so, did he ever marry? I agree, I don't know about him either..... Bobby: Refers to himself as Bob Dawg, and is a serious talker and is the first one to tell you all about himself. College Baseball player. Not long for the game imo...seems very driven and ambitious though, just too in your modern day cave man face... Austin: I like him, seems like he's charming. A D1 soccer player, well schooled and thinks of himself as an author. Don't know if he will have what it takes to deceive though...could be an under the radar type perhaps... Bayoneta: Danielle: Top notch athlete, D1 soccer player and gymnast. Says she doesn't think any one can touch her physically. She's going to be our beyotch of the season. Seems kind of cunning and cold from her preseason pics. Out of all of the women in this cast, she strikes me as the alpha-female....more like an alpha-wolf. Courtney: wild and free spirit of the group but she definately knows what competition is all about. She was a world class gymnast that trained with Bela Keroli(spelling?). She'll be a huge asset to her tribe with the challenges. May find some harmony on the tribe.... Sally: "Survivor Sal". Coached soccer and taught for a while,ran a marathon, now is divorced with kids. I agree with Jiffy's assessment, don't know if she has what it takes to go all the way, but knows to go to the middle of the pack... Misty: the beauty queen rocket scientist....she looks like a fish out of water. Could come across as condescending, trying to prove herself out there. Don't know how she'll fare with the others in her tribe, I think she's in trouble. Interesting to note that the only 4 survivors that are currently married are Dan, Terry, Bruce, and Cirie.....all others are currently single. I don't see any of these daws playing the romance card....Jiffy thinks that the bonds formed in the first few days are going to last... Thrilled to see you back, VS and looking forward to a fun season!   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 01-31-06, 05:37 AM (EST) 2. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" I was starting to get worried Glad to see you've got us started with your usuall pre-game analysis. It usually takes me a few weeks to get a feel for the various characters before I chime in with any sort of strong opinions on these daws. I always take pause when Jeff uses the word character. Almost instinctively I take them off of my list of potential winners. This makes it easy for me focus on other players. Shane is a character. Jeff also gave the kiss of death to Terry by saying That dude could win it. My question is could he really? I don't think so. I've also learned that negative comments about a contestants by Jeff isn't necessarily a bad thing. See his comments about Chris for an example. Nice job VS, and FP for adding your thoughts as well. DRONES   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-31-06, 02:08 PM (EST) 3. "woooooooooohooooooo" I thought you forgot about meus....but then I thought no way...you'd never do that!! No time to read yet but hopefully tonite or tomorrow nite and will respond!! Glad to see you here VS.... I want the golden goose now Daddy!!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 01-31-06, 04:18 PM (EST) 4. "RE: woooooooooohooooooo" FP, DRONES and emydi (would I forget about you ) so glad you chimed in prior to the show starting and I see emydi already has claimed someone for her signature line FP, great observations on the characters and am looking foward to comparing/contrasting notes and you certainly have done your pre game research as you always do, and DRONES, indeed the word "character" "spoke" to me as well and more times than not, those who are identified as such or are completely personified that way are highlighted to their full extent but never quite claim the prize. It will be interesting to see in what context Jeff believes Shane to be a "character" since we have either seen those literally pigeon hold to a "type" (identified specifically by some aspect and kept that way) OR someone who literally is quite a character (someone whose personality is quite colorful and therefore a character) We should be able to tell the difference by the first couple of episodes (or we hope to do so!) I will be looking for that golden goose from you emydi after you have had a chance to catch up   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 07:51 PM (EST) 11. "RE: woooooooooohooooooo" I'm going to need a few eps to get my bearings and how EPMB et al edits these "characters" From what I've read, ( enough for now), I think based on the comments from Jiffy et al, if I had to pick now I think Shane and Cirie will be the "narrators" and will last a long time...and I agree VS, Cirie may not get to the end and may not proactively play, but all the stars will align to let her go far and make some good connections with people, maybe with the older men... Shane is def. our "playa narrator" ala Rob C and Rafe from all I've read. I hope he is worth all the hype, I love this kind of playa (heck I even liked JFP as far as his game went...as a person in real life...blech) And vince--there is no way that Shane quits Survivor...I think he lack of cigs will be an issue but no way would Jiffy say this if he actually did quit. I am def. going to be looking at these two in the first two shows...if they end up on different tribes after week 2, def. they will be their respective tribe's narrators. EPMB I think will love these two... Those I think are in trouble early on what I've read (and others have put the quotes, etc. in this thread) are: Misty--Nick--Bobby and Tina. Tina I think will not be able to not talk about her son..it's so close...I think people will like her but may say...hey she'll get everyone's vote if she makes it to F2...soooo... The others I'm not too sure about I know that I like Aras and Danielle from what I've read...let's see how the editing depicts them. YOu all know how much I despised Tom W esp bc everyone said how wonderful he was...(p.s. drones, remember JIffy said Tom might just win it too and he did!) so Terry is already on my "list"...I don't see EPMB editing Terry differently than Tom... I'm think I may like Dan though...the more laid back "tom/terry" I'll be looking forward to your analysis VS (and everyone else's too) after ep 1, you nailed Danni last year after ep. 1...we may have to wait until Ep 2 bc of the tribes switching from 4 to 2.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-31-06, 07:13 PM (EST) 5. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" LAST EDITED ON 02-01-06 AT 09:13 PM (EST) Hello Veruca, so nice to hear from you! As far as I'm concerned Survivor Exile Island started today with your thread. Jeff had a roundtable with Dalton Ross and other journalists about the survivors. Here's a bit more info from Jeff on the players starting with the ones you had no comments on originally: Melinda: "She thinks she's ready, we think you couldn't be less than ready. The first 3 days will tell, will she protect her fake nails or tear them off? Could be there just for TV exposure since she is a performer." Austin: "He seems vanilla which isn't neccessarily bad. He has strong principles and will need someone to do dirty work" Misty: (doesn't say much) "She talked about her beauty. She might not fit in" Courtney: Jiffy doesn't know if she is comfortable with who she is. (Look at all the different jobs she's had). "She still seems to be trying to find out". For the rest: -Bruce likes to talk a lot about his experiences, that's what Jeff alludes to in his "quiet down" comment. He compares with Dan who certainly has as much experiences to tell but tries to create a setting where they're sharing the survivor experience. -Jeff thinks Shane is well prepared in a nonchalant sort of way. -Sally is seen as mentally tough and should hang around for a while. -Ruth, he compares to Tina Wesson in good physical condition. As Tina W., he sees her as bright but probably not as strategic. - He has no concerns for this Tina who is super strong willed and should lead the tribe and help Cirie to settle in. -Cirie is one of his all-time favorites. She seemed like an unlikely candidate but her personnality won them over. "You just like her" -Aras: Could cross the honesty line very easily. -Bobby could throw Bob Dawg out the window, unless he's there to get a wrestling contract!" Not much on Nick at all and the others were consistant with what you wrote. About Exile Island: It could be a very useful editing tool. I think we'll see 2 kinds of edits from our exilees. The complainers and the ones that are planning a successful return. I'd keep an eye on the the planners. Lets hope it is a great season! EDITED to correct Ruth's description. I hadn't heard that she was maybe as bright as Tina W BUT maybe NOT as strategic. Sorry.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 05:19 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" Hi Veruca! Wonderful opening post, makes me feel more oriented already! I thought I would add JP's new comments on each player from his teleconference, good to have "JP says" collected so we can always recall the exact quote. He runs on a bit but I'm not editing his paragraphs for what I think is interesting, rather presenting it all for others to cull out impressions. I've sorted them out into the groups/tribes like you guys did, but FWIW here is the order JP brings them up. (In tribal groups I've also kept the order they came up): First group: in response to "who are the stand out people this year?" Shane, Cirie, Terry, Dan, Bobby, Tina (3 Older men, 2 older women, 1 younger man) Second group: in response to hearing they're running out of time and he needs to cover everyone. Aras, Austin, Danielle, (Cirie), Misty, Melinda, Bruce, Courtney, (Bobby), Ruth Marie, (Shane), (Tina), Sally, Nick. Older men Shane (gets first mention) Shane, homerun. Shane's the guy that if he walked in every season and looked different, we'd put him on every season. He opens his mouth and you go, oh what's he going to say next? This is a guy that smoked for 20 years, three packs a day and I think half the reason he came out here was he wanted to quit. And he goes cold turkey on day one, day one. Shane is going, "what the hell did I get myself into?" He's also got a neat story in that he's a single dad and he really loves his kid a lot. 2nd ref: Shane is the guy that owns the entertainment marketing company and he's the guy who smoked three packs a day and I referred to as a homerun. Dan We have an astronaut, did like three spacewalks. Literally went up into space. And from the beginning he kept saying that 'Survivor' to him was very similar to the kind of model that you would use to train for a spacewalk in terms of getting along with people and the strategies involved. He was looking forward to that. Terry We've got a guy kind of like Tom Westman, Terry Deitz who's a fighter pilot and reminds of Tom a lot in that he's really athletic, he's in his forties, he's a dad. He's a hero, a guy who's flown these jets. Got a big target on his back. Bruce Bruce, karate instructor and high school art teacher. Bruce is probably the most emotionally honest person that's ever played 'Survivor'. He just, he can't help himself. He's gotta tell you how he feels and he's gotta tell you how he feels about you. And he's gotta tell you what he's doing. And he's gotta tell you what it means to him while he's doing it. And it's a tricky thing because that can be enjoyable for awhile but it can be annoying if it goes on for too long. And that's going to be Bruce's dilemma is how does he stay true to himself and not bug people because he's a really nice guy. I keep saying this and you guys are going to see it later and next season you're gonna say, "you're right, this was a good group of people." But you have to monitor how much you give people of yourself. Older women Cirie (gets second mention) For me, one of my top 5 people ever on the show is Cirie. Cirie is, I think I said this somewhere, Cirie represents every person that watches Survivor and sits on their couch and says, "I could do that" but they never get up. Cirie got up and that's what makes me love Cirie. She is the least likely person you'd ever expect to see make it on the show. And our casting director fought for her. She said, "I'm telling you, trust me, Cirie will deliver. She'll be dynamite out there." Cirie on day one doesn't want to pick up leaves. She's like, "I'm going to but I tell ya, I know there's things in those leaves. I don't like to build the shelter because every time you tear down a branch whatever was living in there is looking to get even." She's just wonderful. Ref #2: She's one of my favorite all time Survivors. And I think people are going to absolutely adore her. Tina One of my emotional, sentimental favorites is this woman, Tina Scheer. I don't know if you guys know this story or not but she was gonna be on 'Guatemala' and about six weeks before we left for the show, her son was killed in a car wreck. It was tragic and obviously she couldn't do 'Guatemala'. But obviously we said, "if next season you think it's appropriate and it feels right, we're going to hold a spot for you and you just let us know." She thought about it and she said, "you know what, I'm packing my son up with me inside my heart and let's go do it." She's a lumberjill. She's a very likeable Sue Hawk. This woman will tell you everything she's thinking. And she's a hard worker and she's good outdoors. And it's going to be hard to get rid of her because she knows what she's doing. Question: Her tragic background, does that come into play in the game at all? JP: I can't tell ya. It comes into play, I can't tell you in what regard. And that was her...we didn't tell anybody, obviously...we don't say, like same with Dan. Dan didn't want anybody to know he was an astronaut unless he decided to tell them. Misty was a rocket scientist. She didn't want anybody to know that either. So, it was Tina's choice as to how to share it or if she wanted to play it as a strategy or keep it to herself. 2nd ref: Tina is the logroller. Ruth Marie Ruth Marie is, I think the oldest woman. She's only 48. She's in really good shape, she's a runner but she's really lean. We've seen this a lot. People come in already lean, if they last long, it's hard on their body. They don't have enough fat to live on and they get small fast. That's what worried me about her going into it is: if they don't find a way to eat will she be able to keep her stamina up. Melinda Melinda, one of the older women. She's 32, even when I introduce them as older I know Melinda was over there going, "what?" But she is interesting because she's the antithesis of what you normally see on the show in that she's got her fingernails and her hair's colored and she's a singer and entertainer. But she kept telling us, "Give me a chance. Let me show you what I can do." And so we did and we will see. Younger men Bobby no lie, refers to himself in the third person more than anyone I've ever seen. Bob Dawg likes to do this. Bob Dawg likes to do that. Bob Dawg likes to say this. At a certain point, you're kind of like, 'you're talking about yourself.' "Yeah Bob Dawg is me. Bob Dawg is my alter ego." He's got this big deep voice and the guy is huge. Physical wise he's an imposing threat but I'm trying to imagine him around camp. "Bob Dawg's gonna go get some wood." He's a funny guy. 2nd ref: Bobby Mason we talked about, that's Bob Dawg. Bob Dawg gonna do this. Bob Dawg gonna eat a hot dog. Aras He's a yoga instructor. Aras is a really well-intentioned guy. He wanted to do the right thing and that's not always easy to do on 'Survivor'. It's not easy to do in your daily life. But Aras really appealed to me because I think he comes from a good family and I really liked him. I liked what he was trying to achieve. It's a nice change of pace to see so many people try to play the game with integrity, still play and play hard. But play it with some sort of honor and decency, it was so, made me feel so good about you know, vanity. Austin Austin, he's a part of the young guy group. And another very likeable guy. I think women are really going to find Austin charming. You know, he's an attractive guy. He's in good shape. And he, too, has a backbone that's built on ethics. The game is gonna prove difficult for him because of that but his goal is how far can I get and play in a way that my parents will be proud of me. And it's not boring, it's fascinating. Nick Nick, financial sales from Tempe. Nick didn't show a lot coming in. I couldn't gage him at all. He's an athletic guy. He's on the young guys tribe and he seems to be a really smart person but very reserved. I don't always know if that's a true person's nature, a person's true nature, or if they're playing the game already. People have gotten really wise to the fact that I'm a part of the game. So, they only show me certain things as well. Nick's a big question mark for me. Younger women Danielle Danielle. Danielle is one of the young girls. She's a medical sales rep from Florida. Danielle is puzzling to me because when we met her she was the cockiest, smack-talking, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm an athlete. And she got out there and on day one, I was thinking, wow where is this person. Because she was somewhat quiet. I was really curious about the real Danielle. I was also aware that maybe Danielle was playing. And maybe what she's playing is this game of hiding in the middle somewhere which I've always felt is the best strategy if you can figure out how to do it. Danielle definitely appeared to be wanting to hide in the middle. Misty Misty, a rocket scientist and engineer, also a beauty queen. Her deal was, she said about herself, she's a very bright person but she's not necessarily sure she's going to let anybody know that. And as she said, it might not even come into play in the game. She's also been in beauty pageants so she knows a little bit about that competitive angle that you have to take to win these things, to get along with people. And I have to say, Misty is a gamer. She's willing to go for it. And within the first 12 or 14 hours she is eaten alive by the bugs and it doesn't seem to bother her at all. Courtney Courtney, a performance artist. Once again, this is a girl who firewalks and she is very spiritually based. And Courtney came out trying to solve some things. Courtney had some stuff to go through with herself out there. Courtney is another person who, she sees a dead fish and she's torn. Should we eat it or give it a burial? You know when you're hungry and you're Cirie, that's gonna drive you nuts. But Courtney is going to be somebody that you will definitely remember. Sally Sally Schumann is a social worker. She's 27 and she has a really appealing quiet confidence about herself. She's a smart woman for her young age and she's very composed. That's something that I think people sometimes forget about on 'Survivor'. They're so quick to react and I think Sally is one to sit back and let others act and kind of just access and not panic and know that there's always another day and if not well that's the way the game went.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 07:37 AM (EST) 7. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" Thanks for doing that, OFG. One can't help but to wonder if the chronology of the presentation is significant at all...I'm sure he mentioned the most memorable characters first, such as Shane, Dan, Cirie, Tina, and Bob "Dawg", but once the characters are discussed, could the presentation of the others be significant....For example, does he note the longer lived cast members first working down to the earliest out.... This teleconference happened the day before yesterday, so the show had played out in it's entirity. Just a curious observation....   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-01-06, 11:50 AM (EST) 8. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" michel and OFG, so nice to see both of you as well Thank you both for the updated information since I am not often able to get this information readily and these comments most definitely shed further light on our upcoming contestants. So it appears that Shane is most definitely someone that Jeff found very memorable and it may be more than just a one dimensional character type. He obviously sounds like someone who is colorful. This may be a contestant that is "great tv" but it is not necessarily someone that others will be able to tolerate when they are getting hungrier and more tired. There is a subtle difference between someone who can entertain without exhausting. Let's see where Shane falls Thank you for the expansion on Jeff's comments about Bruce and "quieting down" Being emotionally honest and open is a double edged sword depending on who you are surrounded by. Generally speaking, a man who is open emotionally and honestly and descriptive may be well received by the older women the most. However, males (stereo)typcially do not emote in abundance and Jeff may be right that there may be a point where a group will become intolerant. Bruce could do well surrounded by the older women, tolerated by the mature men and may get a few eye rolls from the younger sect. Cirie sounds like a breath of fresh air from Jeff but I do not see her as a "proactive" player simply based on how she is described. Jeff's high praise of her may indeed bode well for her longevity but I suspect it won't be from any hard game playing but perhaps the right circumstances she is surrounded by. Again, all guesswork but anyone who doesn't want to pick up leaves and so forth is not someone who I see excelling at the physical and environmental part of the game. Her disarming nature, however, is another story From what is stated about Courtney we may have a contestant who we see in the eyes of a journey progression. She may do considerably well but in terms of editing, we may see her gaining something out of this experience as opposed to playing to win. This development doesn't usually occur immediately but it does start to stand out about the mid way point. Frankly I am surprised that someone like Melinda would get selected and the whole selection may be JUST to see how far someone who is "less than ready" gets. On paper, she doesn't appear to have "legs" but we are all well aware of how some contestants can surprise us. However, I still believe that out of the four women in her group, she may be the one who doesn't mesh quite as well. Jeff's commentary about Nick also is interesting. He has in the past (more or less) commented in similar terms about past players that did not do too well. I'll be interested in seeing if Nick is a short term player as Jeff tends to relay those comments, or some aspect of them (big question mark, couldn't gage, etc.) to those who do not stay for any length of time. We will see if he is consistent. Wonderful start with the characters everyone. OFG everything is important so putting the commentary in the order is useful to determine if anything comes from it this season. We already know that the recaps and what is gleaned out of the Insider comments do play a role; this may as well also!   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 06:46 PM (EST) 9. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" Thanks VS and Flowerpower-- yes, I felt the order was important, and that with a couple of the last people he was reaching for something to say. Here are some of the comments that jump out at me. These are just the teleconference because I haven't amassed all the quotes into one doc I can keep in front of me: First, a quote I didn't include above: This is the quote: So, we put them in four tribes to bond them then we change them in episode two to see if the bonds would stick. And I think it's pretty interesting because there is a label about being the "older women" and the "younger guys" and "younger women" and the "older guys". And that tends to stick. Suddenly it's okay that four older guys are going to stay together no matter what. And then they get split up, now what do you do? JP is pretty much telling us these designations will factor in much longer than the initial tribes exist as units. I think it may be telling that JP mentions the older guys. I think Terry, Dan, and Bruce (military, astronaut, karate master) come from backgrounds where pledges are a big deal. Terry and Dan's professions would tend to form male bonds. This quote makes me think that two or more of these four will keep a first day alliance together post merge in spite of being on opposing tribes pre-merge. Shane, homerun... He opens his mouth and you go, oh what's he going to say next? ... I think half the reason he came out here was he wanted to quit. And he goes cold turkey on day one, day one. Shane is going, "what the hell did I get myself into?" He's also got a neat story in that he's a single dad and he really loves his kid a lot. I read this that Shane is the biggest TV "character" of the season. JP says in his telecon that Shane is a candidate for quitting (withdrawal), BUT obviously he hangs in there or he wouldn't be the memorable guy. JP mentions he has a "story" and I expect to see a story. JP mentions him as someone who came out there not so much to play the game as to deal with his demons (addiction). Usually personal journeys don't bode well for winning, and I doubt he will. However, as one of the four older men he may find an anchor there. Although his profession is far from the other three, and he's professed to be "Machiavellian" rather than "ethical"--he's a dad. While I'm trying to keep spoilers at a distance here, I can't ignore the rumor that a "small man" (Shane or Bruce) supposedly gets given a family visit. JP hints that the dad/kid story is big with Shane, so obviously if Shane gets to visit his son on the show that would be a "fact" of the show that would open the door for Shane's story to play out in a compelling way. Dan from the beginning he kept saying that 'Survivor' to him was very similar to the kind of model that you would use to train for a spacewalk in terms of getting along with people and the strategies involved. He was looking forward to that. A guy with a strategy. Here's someone the producers would want to hang in for awhile so that the "astronaut" hype isn't negated by the guy being first boot. JP doesn't say much about him but the emphasis on having a strategy and being a people person shows that JP sees him as having a good solid approach to the game. Doesn't sound like the old guy who will let himself get marginalized the way Willard did. Neither will he look like a threat with Terry acting as the "Tom"-"Gary" shield for Dan. Terry We've got a guy kind of like Tom Westman, Terry Deitz who's a fighter pilot and reminds of Tom a lot in that he's really athletic, he's in his forties, he's a dad. He's a hero, a guy who's flown these jets. Got a big target on his back. Well, comparison to Tom doesn't bode well for Terry winning. "target on his back" for strength almost always comes into play post-merge. Again I can't ignore the spoilers that say Terry will win numerous challenges. Put that together with Jeff's intro, and I get that we'll see a lot of Terry dodging bullets. JP isn't saying a lot about Terry's game (just his CV)--considering he's quite the score in casting. I have no doubt Terry goes far in the game, so maybe JP is holding back a little on one of the stars for the sake of not spoiling it. Bruce Bruce is probably the most emotionally honest person that's ever played 'Survivor'... He's gotta tell you how he feels and he's gotta tell you how he feels about you ... And it's a tricky thing because that can be enjoyable for awhile but it can be annoying if it goes on for too long. And that's going to be Bruce's dilemma is how does he stay true to himself and not bug people because he's a really nice guy. I keep saying this and you guys are going to see it later This "see it later" and the whole tone of this quote tells me the Bruce story goes on for awhile, long enough for him to wear thin on his fellow players. That tells me he's not such a challenge-liability to his tribe that they boot him early. He's "nice." That differentiates him from Kimmy who was too honest and not all that nice, and the second boot from her tribe. Bruce is also in the older guy group, and I get the feeling the older guys make it to the merge so that the "stick" of the early bond can come into play. One thing to remember is that Bruce talking too much isn't necessarily the kiss of death if Bruce is with a strong alliance: Eliza didn't hold back, annoyed people, and wasn't "nice" and she still made it a long way. Aras first up after JP listed those who are memorable as "characters." My take on that is Aras isn't a hugely talkative colorful character, nor is he the guy with the amazing resume, so he didn't belong with the first group. But he is important enough to lead off the rest of cast assessment. Plus, if he does do as well as I hope (lust, lust), it would be prudent of JP to bury him and hold back on hyping him up. I liked what he was trying to achieve. It's a nice change of pace to see so many people try to play the game with integrity, still play and play hard. The word "try" jumps out at me. This creates the question of whether Aras succeeded in "doing the right thing." Seems to be a storyline there. "So many people" indicates the "integrity" strategy isn't just owned by Aras. This makes me wonder if we'll see an alliance based on shared ideals of doing the right thing--Allies of Integrity in control as opposed to Guatemala's Axis of Evil? "Play hard" tells me these people are a force to be reckoned with rather than poor innocent lambs to the slaughter. However, all this about "trying" seems to say he did not wholly succeed in his goal of going far while doing the right thing. Question I have, did he not go far enough, like Ian or Rafe, or did he go all the way but he was unable to be 100% well-intentioned/ethical on his journey? Austin he, too, has a backbone that's built on ethics. The game is gonna prove difficult for him because of that but his goal is how far can I get and play in a way that my parents will be proud of me. And it's not boring, it's fascinating. Anytime a goal is mentioned that falls short of winning, as in "how far can I get" doesn't bode well for getting to the end. Also Jeff says his way of playing ethically makes the game "difficult" for him. OTOH, JP is pointing to a fascinating story, so it appears to me Austin will be in the game for a bit and won't be an early boot that we barely get to know. When we see the real tribes and alliances shake out, we will see whether Austin is a "lone" ethical or an "allied" ethical. I feel that Aras, Terry, Dan, and Bruce may be the other "ethical" players among the men. (Shane, Bobby, Nick--not so much?) JP indicates women will like Austin. If the older men do form an alliance, my question about Austin is whether he's left on the outside of the male bonding and bonds with the women, or whether he and Aras connect early on as they are initially together. Or maybe Aras migrates to the older side and leaves Austin. TBD. Bobby CHARACTER with a capital C. No other hints of a story, except that his shtick might wear thin at camp. Physical wise he's an imposing threat Makes Bobby sound like the classic strong guy you keep around until the merge and then take out at earliest opportunity. No hint in his description that Bobby bonds, makes it sound like Bob's primary relationship is with Bob Dawg. Overall impression is Bobby sticks around long enough to be a memorable Survivor character but isn't a force in "playing" the game, as Jeff doesn't say a word about strategy. Nick Nick didn't show a lot coming in. I couldn't gage him at all. He's an athletic guy. He's on the young guys tribe and he seems to be a really smart person but very reserved. I don't always know if that's a true person's nature, a person's true nature, or if they're playing the game already... So, they only show me certain things as well. Nick's a big question mark for me. Sounds like he never got to know what Nick's game was. Jeff mentions that Nick didn't show Jeff much information, so that might indicate Jeff saw him at more than one TC, being reserved. Nick is athletic, and after this many seasons the players should have learned to keep athletic guys around until it gets close to merge, at least in mixed-gender tribes. So unless he's a first boot (highly unlikely that the young male tribe comes in last for first IC)--he should be around as the useful-in-challenges guy for a little while, especially if he doesn't make waves. However, I see no indications that he develops a story, and "reserved" isn't typically a great strategy for a guy. Kel comes to mind. But Kel's boot cost Ogakor challenges, almost cost them the game had not Skupin gotten burned, which provides a history lesson. Jed in S5, another lesson. I don't think a strong young guy SHOULD get booted that early even if he doesn't find a social niche. OTOH, Nick could be another Kel, Jed, Hunter, or Blake, Colby/Ethan in ASS or any of the young bucks in Vanuatu ... if his tribe decides they don't need him to get each other to the merge, he could be fairly early toast. Definitely getting a short-timer vibe from JP on Nick, AND he mentioned him last, seemed to struggle to find anything to say about him. I was going to go through the list but I think I'll end this post here, and try to do the women separately.   Top

vince3 17341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 07:04 PM (EST) 10. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" LAST EDITED ON 02-01-06 AT 07:04 PM (EST) Shane, homerun... He opens his mouth and you go, oh what's he going to say next? ... I think half the reason he came out here was he wanted to quit. And he goes cold turkey on day one, day one. Shane is going, "what the hell did I get myself into?" He's also got a neat story in that he's a single dad and he really loves his kid a lot This might have been taken out of context by you thinking he's thinking about quitting the show. He supposedly smokes 3 packs a day and drinks tons of coffee. That is a pair of major addictions to try to quit at the beginning of a reality show. Because 3 Vinces are better than one.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 08:20 PM (EST) 13. "RE: The Players, The Game, The Editing - Exile Island" Hi Vince, actually I had a context for the "quitting" spec from Jeff, just wasn't quoted in this thread, and yes the core reason Shane's name came up was the cold turkey aspect: Question: Do we have any quitters this season? JP: I tell you who would be a quick candidate is Shane because three packs a day for 20 years aint gonna be easy. Then Jeff goes on to say that once people make it through the beginning they can pull it together. I was just observing that clearly Shane is going to get through it or he wouldn't be memorable and JP wouldn't like him and say they'd cast him every season if they could. Jeff is making us appreciate that Shane could well have been a quitter at quitting. Personally I think Osten had some "habits" going on and didn't realize how tough it would be, was in denial about any addictions, and that's why he wanted to quit so badly, to get back to his comfort zone. Shane OTOH WANTS to use the isolation as a way to quit.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 08:07 PM (EST) 12. "JP on the women players" LAST EDITED ON 02-02-06 AT 05:51 AM (EST) Part II of my "what I get from JP" post: Cirie and Tina were the only women that JP highlighted in his "memorable characters" list. ETA that Danielle is the first woman mentioned as JP moves to the rest of the cast. Cirie (gets second mention) For me, one of my top 5 people ever on the show is Cirie... She said, "I'm telling you, trust me, Cirie will deliver. She'll be dynamite out there." Cirie on day one doesn't want to pick up leaves. She's like, "I'm going to but I tell ya, I know there's things in those leaves. I don't like to build the shelter because every time you tear down a branch whatever was living in there is looking to get even." She's just wonderful. ... She's one of my favorite all time Survivors. And I think people are going to absolutely adore her. There's got to be longevity there. One of top 5 people in 12 seasons has to go to at least F6 I would think. No matter how much of a character you are, if you don't make most or ALL of the episodes you will not rank like that for memorability. OK, Jerri, Jeff V, and Skupin are an exception, but that was S2. Therefore, if Cirie is not all that physical, plus a little tentative with embracing the camp chores, something like an alliance must see her to the merge, as it did Lydia. I expect she gets in with the right people and doesn't get killed by a swap the way Amy did. At which point no one will bother to target her until she gets close enough to hit the "no way that Cirie gets before the jury" mark. A great F4 type candidate, which would allow her to be in every episode. Tina One of my emotional, sentimental favorites ... She's a very likeable Sue Hawk. This woman will tell you everything she's thinking. And she's a hard worker and she's good outdoors. And it's going to be hard to get rid of her because she knows what she's doing. Question: Her tragic background, does that come into play in the game at all? JP: I can't tell ya. It comes into play, I can't tell you in what regard... we didn't tell anybody ... it was Tina's choice as to how to share it or if she wanted to play it as a strategy or keep it to herself. Hard to get rid of her. But at some point they will? At least two ways that could come about: 1) Pre-merge, her tribe could get down to either cutting her or cutting someone from dominant alliance. 2) Post-merge, an alliance decision. My take on JP's tone is that unlike Twila, Tina is liked, but it doesn't sound like she has a gaming strategy other than "hard worker/provider." This rarely carries anyone to the end. Re her tragedy, well, if it comes into play I think she has to share it at some point and it's going to be interesting enough that JP wants to hold it back so as not to spoil it. Ruth Marie Ruth Marie is, I think the oldest woman. She's only 48. She's in really good shape, she's a runner but she's really lean. We've seen this a lot. People come in already lean, if they last long, it's hard on their body. They don't have enough fat to live on and they get small fast. That's what worried me about her going into it is: if they don't find a way to eat will she be able to keep her stamina up. I would say she sounds like she lasts long enough for her stamina to become an issue, but JP says "they get small fast" so who knows, could be an issue in the first six days. There are rumors of both tribes not eating well for extended periods, that would tie into "if they don't find a way to eat." The rumor describes "tribes" so sounds like a pre-merge hunger problem. Ruth Marie could be a pre-merge mercy boot? No other hint of a story or a strategy. Sounds ominous, possibly even the traditional Ep 2 mercy boot. Melinda Melinda, one of the older women. She's 32 ... is interesting because she's the antithesis of what you normally see on the show in that ... she's got her fingernails and her hair's colored. But she kept telling us, "Give me a chance. Let me show you what I can do." And so we did and we will see. LOL at a 32 year old getting put with the old ladies! boy, this is a tough one, because on one hand sort of sounds like a Morgan or Brianna type where Jeff has little faith in them and they in fact go early. BUT "we will see" implies there is a story, I think. (Of course it could mean, we will see and nya nya nya she fell on her face like Brianna.) Danielle Danielle is puzzling to me because when we met her she was the cockiest, smack-talking, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, I'm an athlete. And she got out there and on day one, I was thinking, wow where is this person. Because she was somewhat quiet. I was really curious about the real Danielle. I was also aware that maybe Danielle was playing. And maybe what she's playing is this game of hiding in the middle somewhere which I've always felt is the best strategy if you can figure out how to do it. Danielle definitely appeared to be wanting to hide in the middle. Sort of resembles JP's issues with mystery Nick, but with a difference. JP has a lot more curiosity and awareness and also strategy speculation about Danielle. I think she is a long-lasting mystery. The words "best strategy" leap out, even though tied to an "if." When JP talked about Danni having good strategy, he was talking about a F2 player. At any rate, it appears she hid in the middle, even though she's a major athletic type. Again, this is sort of what Danni did. Danielle sounds like another long-range stealth bomber, but someone who doesn't deliver with the expected big personality. I wonder if she will be our person who goes far and gets UTR editing like Danni. Misty Misty, a rocket scientist and engineer, also a beauty queen. Her deal was, she said about herself, she's a very bright person but she's not necessarily sure she's going to let anybody know that. And as she said, it might not even come into play in the game. She's also been in beauty pageants so she knows a little bit about that competitive angle that you have to take to win these things, to get along with people. And I have to say, Misty is a gamer. She's willing to go for it. And within the first 12 or 14 hours she is eaten alive by the bugs and it doesn't seem to bother her at all. I think this could be a first boot description. 1) He gives her all the props for being game and a good people person and smart and gorgeous. 2) His comments about her strategy are hypothetical and he says "it might not even come into play in the game." "She's willing to go for it." But ... she doesn't get a chance? 3) He says a bunch about what happens to her in the first episode (bug-eaten) and she's the only player that he gives a time frame like that to his comments. Probably because she's only in the first episode. It's important to give the first boot their due, as they are pretty much robbed of a chance to play or to be memorable. Talk up the potential and the spirit, if the person had those qualities. That's how JP describes Misty. Courtney she is very spiritually based. And Courtney came out trying to solve some things. Courtney had some stuff to go through with herself out there. Courtney is another person who, she sees a dead fish and she's torn. Should we eat it or give it a burial? You know when you're hungry and you're Cirie, that's gonna drive you nuts. But Courtney is going to be somebody that you will definitely remember. Note: Cirie and Courtney are older/younger, so if this isn't a hypothetical, this hint about Cirie/Courtney is a post pickem incident and they end up on same tribe. Another person on a quest, not a player. Possible conflict with Cirie over eating fish ... another Kimmie/Alicia except between nice people? I would say early boot, but the "definitely remember" indicates she'll be around a bit, maybe longer than Misty, Ruth Marie, Nick. Not necessarily enough to point towards jury. We remember Amy and Margaret, even though they didn't make merge. Sally Last young woman mentioned. Sally Schumann is a social worker. She's 27 and she has a really appealing quiet confidence about herself. She's a smart woman for her young age and she's very composed. That's something that I think people sometimes forget about on 'Survivor'. They're so quick to react and I think Sally is one to sit back and let others act and kind of just access and not panic and know that there's always another day and if not well that's the way the game went. So Danielle and Sally (big Survivor fan) are both trying not to be COA. Sounds like Sally stays out of any early drama. Reminds me of Brooke. NOT listed as memorable, makes me think she is not a big personality and goes pre-merge. They're so quick to react and I think Sally is one to sit back and let others act Possibly Sally could be on tribe with Courtney and Cirie? Or she is staying out of the way of some of the Type A personalities? "know that there's always another day and if not well that's the way the game went. Sounds like a "toast" comment to me, like she has the potential to make it UTR with her strategy but just doesn't, for whatever reason. But, unlike with Misty, JP doesn't talk up all her qualities and her behavior during Ep1, so I'm inclined to think Misty is getting the first boot treatment rather than Sally. I sure get the feeling that the men are dominating the screen this season, apart from Cirie. The theme of "ethics" that I hear from Jeff is absent from his assessment of the women. The women are variously nice, hard-workers, spiritual, unusual, cocky, athletic, thin, strong, determined--but nothing about integrity or ethics, which are often big issues in the end game. Only with Danielle and Melinda do we hear the possibility they will surprise us with some real game. Cirie, I think is a shoe-in to go deep, but how much of that will be game I don't know. Re Danielle, I can't see her as being the nice UTR person like Danni. Instead, she sounds like the bitch of the season who managed to shut up early on. Hard to imagine her making it into an ethics-based alliance, seems more like Shane's Machiavellian type. Will look forward to seeing what her trip is.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-01-06, 09:25 PM (EST) 14. "RE: JP on the women players" Wow OFG, your pregame assessment of what Jiffy had to say just blows me away! I can't believe how eloquently you have organized the group. I really like it! I think you've really got Jiffy figured out, can't wait to see how it plays out now! We will really have to refer back to this thread to note it. It seems as though Misty is the strong favored boot choice, with Ruth Marie in second and that's what you have assessed from this as well. Excellent deductions, well done!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-03-06, 03:59 PM (EST) 15. "First Episode" And so the first episode is done I must say despite the somewhat overly dramatic portrayal of (heavy dramatic pause) EXILE ISLAND, I did find the cinematography very arresting visually. I have a tendency to appreciate over the top effects I am looking forward, as always, to hear your thoughts on this episode as the first episode is the most important in creating first impressions for the viewers, i.e. immediate likes/dislikes and so forth Thereafter, longevity impressions come into play. Again, while I am not naive enough to believe that information may come into play into people’s thoughts or opinions, I only ask that they are not specifically stated as such as I truly love reading everyone’s insight and would hate to have to not read it as (as much as we would like to believe it doesn’t) information can color our perceptions We obviously would have to start the show on this island since according to Jeff: ”...on an island that will play a dramatic role......” It stands to reason that we can perhaps assume (which naturally is only an assumption) that the twist involving this island perhaps DOES INDEED change the outcome of what may have been a different result. Jeff “Each week, at least one Survivor will be banished. The silver lining that could help one Survivor win a million dollars (a shot of a lone male searching the ground then follows with the talk of the hidden idol) Will be interesting to see if a male contestant does indeed find it considering the figure shown. Note also that Jeff says “at least” The Arrival I am sure I was not the only person to see the blatant camera work reflecting what appeared to be Aras look at Courtney with Courtney winking supposedly at him Camera work such as this is normally intended for a purpose Obviously that purpose is unknown to us now but it is interesting that Aras was the manufactured recipient of this wink. Why not Austin since he later told us that he is a flirt and wanted to be with women. Again, these shots need to be “back burnered” as they could mean something important later in the game. Austin confessional “I would certainly prefer to have some females on our team. I can’t help but flirt with any female I come into contact” (I expected there to be some comment by either male or female about the men/women split as usually at least one contestant counts on some female/male connection in their strategy so at its whole, this may mean nothing but a throwaway comment as to the makeup of the tribes since we also hear from Cirie and Bobby about the tribe formation as well) Cirie was immediately established on our television screens with her pronouncement of surprise being in the “older” women’s group along with her confessional about same. In fact, Cirie was probably the most embellished character during the entire show which I’ll talk about later. Bobby confessional “....Beefcake crowd, I’m a charter member. We have the Loveboat Men, Golden Girls and the Spice Girls. It will be interesting how things shake out” I usually (more for fun) take note as to where the camera goes during Jeff’s commentary (as most of you know ) Whether it ends up having any bearing is the amusement for me as I look back to see if indeed his comments had merit Jeff “This is Exile Island. (shot of Dannielle and Bobby) Nobody to watch your back (shot of Ruth Marie) You don’t know what is going on (shot of Dan) Hidden somewhere is an individual idol (Bruce is showing exclaiming with a shot of Nick, then Aras) You can use it any time up to the final four (shot of Shane). You can hold onto it (another shot of Aras) until after the votes have been revealed at Tribal Council (Dan is shown such as “Oh!” then a shot of Terry smiling) The person with the next most votes goes home (shot of Cirie looking troubled by that news) With that, Jeff announces an immediate Reward Challenge Danielle confessional “That’s (athletics) is my forte..... I’m an athlete” (Question as to whether this is just irony in light of her losing the RC or a much needed win later on) The Reward Challenge Short and simple and obviously meant to get the exiled person twist starting. Austin, Terry, Ruth Marie and Danielle were the designated runners which were probably determined by their stating that they are decent runners I would assume at this time. The only item of interest was the aftermath with who stayed behind. Danielle’s offer to stay behind in light of her “losing” the challenge with the murmurs that she shouldn’t (This really should not be surprising, I consider this an automatic reaction to comfort someone for feeling responsible. I might add that this may not have occurred should the MEN have lost lol) Misty confessional “No one wanted to make a decision in our group.... I don’t want to start off Survivor on the losing end” (These comments I do always find interesting to hold onto as it may very establish the fate of the tribe this person is on. Again, however, this simply may be in relation to the events that followed in their subsequent immunity challenge win) Exile Island - The First Victim Again, my speculation is solely based on what I am watching and how it affects me and how it holds up against various editing patterns and character development throughout the seasons. With that said, we already ascertained that the person exiled will be shown in light of the event that happened to them when normally that person would not or should not be highlighted. Ultimately, we may not understand their face time until after but I would hazard a guess that IF the person exiled is also one who has potential end game longevity there would be something that makes us pause. Bearing that in mind Misty good sport that she was, was indeed shown as a lone figure looking out to the boats, discussing that she feels vulnerable and her impending search for the idol. We then left her for some time for the development of the four tribes. Thereafter, we came back to Misty, being shown at night with the thunder and lightning and a nice shot of a snake slithering by quickly cutting to the morning. Misty “....worst nightmare.... My other tribemates are hopefully doing better... for immunity challenge... ...been digging for the idol. Huge advantage..... ....I’ll trick them into thinking I found the idol at the Immunity Challenge” Obviously, we will be able to compare her stay with others as the episodes air so my assessment on Misty’s stay is purely from just watching her and perhaps what I expect from someone with a long stay in the game considering that Exile Island could be pivotal in the outcome of this game. Misty was given very obligatory face time within the context of her situation. She was shown bothered, she was shown searching, she was shown at night and shown during the day. I did not get a concrete feeling that Misty is important enough for the end game at this point. I choose to believe at this juncture that someone meant for end game would have been reflected more than the obvious events they were made to participate In my viewing of this show over the seasons, it would seem (to me) that with this brand new dynamic of the game and the dramatic presentation of same the person on Exile Island (especially if she/he were the FIRST person) there would have been a bit more. However, this is something that we can’t guarantee for a couple of reasons. 1. The person who actually ends up finding the idol will obviously be highlighted in some aspect since they found it. 2. I would hazard a guess that if the ultimate winner is exiled at some point there may be a concerted effort to focus on their stay as well. 3. I would think also that someone who ultimately precipitates a game changing moment and DIDN’T find the idol would get some extra depth to their face time on the island. With that said, Misty, being the first person exiled appeared to get obligatory due but without an unnecessary footage so this may be indicative she is not an end game player although she did come out of the situation established as someone who has her head into the game and all ended well. The Tribes Being that these tribes will end as quickly as they formed, I spent the evening probably reflecting more on who made an impression and in what manner. The Older Women Poor Tina. She herself stated what we know about human beings. One cannot change their character. Despite the general knowledge that an overt leader should tread carefully, she could not (and would not) change that about herself. One has to wonder if she would have confided about her son’s tragedy, what the outcome would have been. As previously discussed, the tragic circumstances that occurred were definitely highlighted as assumed which the editor made sure to be Tina’s story ALONE. However, all the other dynamics surrounding Tina were more about Cirie than Tina Cirie I would surmise in one viewing that Cirie was a main focus on the show. This is not entirely unusual since her tribe did indeed visit Tribal Council so events dictated that she and her tribe would take up a fair amount of time. However, Cirie was a main focus in the ultimate outcome despite the fact that there seemed to be no showing of disagreement by Ruth Marie or Belinda in getting rid of Tina With that said, more came later with Cirie that had a nice parallel to her story this episode which appears to be something to build upon. Ruth Marie The most “seemingly” low key quiet but certainly a hard worker and someone who readily understood a main component that can cause issue in a tribe: ”The older women are performing well.... .....Tina stepping forward as leader... ...I was more than happy to step back....” While there is still a way to go to determine any longevity, Ruth is obviously capable and was part of discussions. At this point, there is really little to go on with Ruth as I did not get any sense one way or another which is neither good nor bad. Melinda Cirie seemed to command the performance but there was an aura around Melinda that she also would have no problem being overt in her communications. I don’t think it is any stretch that she herself would be concerned about her stay and had no problem with reinforcing what Cirie was handing over. While there was nothing overtly negative coming off from Melinda, I caught a whiff of perhaps a troublemaking vibration that may come into play later. As a whole, this group was shown to be decisive and ready to go. How much of this was due to Tina however? The Older Men Another grouping that was decisive and ready to work with, in actuality, the most potential storylines pending. There would appear to be something down the pike with Dan and Terry and Shane and Bruce in some aspect. Dan “Can I trust you?” (to Terri) (And with that, my eyebrow went up to make mental note that a potential issue of trust or betrayal may come into play with these two men) What else was interesting is how we heard Dan mentioning Terry that he is a “great guy” One aspect of analyzing the editing of players is the discussion that we hear ABOUT the players by OTHER players. Generally speaking, those with longevity not only talk but are talked about Terry”Yeah” Dan “I’ll never lie to you; I’ll expect you not to lie to me” Terry “I’ll shake on that” (Ultimately, we should keep a keen eye on this, shaking hands, swearing on (fill in the blank) and so forth are usually significant) Be that as it may, it was no surprise that Dan and Terry should have an early relationships as we discussed prior to the show in light of their similarities. Dan was what he appeared to be, low key, hard working, affable. He was shown in the presence of all four of his tribe. Terry The selected runner, one who was sought out by Dan, a nice little confessional about the state of their camp and he made a pleasant appearance on our screen. Nothing to set our haunches up but nothing relegating him to being unforgettable. At this time, there may be NO issues surrounding Terry but with the handshake to Dan, we may have a longer term story in the process Bruce and Shane I am combining the two since Bruce was seen more visually with emphatic sound bites but Bruce’s importance on our screen seemed tied solely to how Shane was feeling Let’s look at his realistically, Bruce was a camera vision away every single time Shane narrated how he felt. Other than that, Bruce’s presence was not notable. Shane confessional “I already want to call out people because they are moronic” (shot of Bruce) Shane (to Dan) “..... can’t worry about people’s feelings; we are all capable...” (Bruce shown yet again) Shane confessional “I’ve got to get through this detox. I can’t lash out at anyone, I can’t. This is unbelievably hard” (Yet again, Bruce is shown chopping wood) Shane has two issue storylines here Obviously, the pressure and stress he is feeling with not smoking and an obvious annoyance with Bruce. Shane stated “I don’t really fit in all that much....” yet visually his only object of derision was shown to be Bruce; we saw none of this about Dan or Terry It would seem then that there is something brewing with Shane and Bruce along with Shane and his stress. Whether these “stories” are long term or short term is not something that can be determined after on episode but there was emphasis on both these situations that one cannot believe aren’t fleshed out to some degree As a unit, there was an efficiency with these men though Shane’s contention of not fitting in was evident. Shane certainly had the “break out” story of the four and this tribe in actuality seemed to have the most to build upon for now The Younger Men Somehow, I was not very surprised to see the younger men enjoying ball playing and as a whole, seemed to be the tribe who appeared most unconflicted socially together despite some differences. Aras was notable obviously due to his mental exercise he enlisted Nick and Austin in which Bobby appeared to sit out from. Important enough to show us this mental exercise when in context, it was not important? I’m not sure but it was not received negatively with the exception of Nick’s one comment which was not even negative. In addition, neither Austin nor Bobby commented on it so there was no reinforcement. Nick The interesting observation about Nick was not necessarily obvious; it was completely subtle. First as stated, Nick was the only one to comment on Aras’ mental exercise being “harebrained and grandiose”. Was it received by the audience negatively? Not necessarily but in terms of this show, when only ONE person comments about someone else’s actions or behavior with NO reinforcement, it tends to bode better for the person being discussed. Tina’s actions were commented on by Ruth, Melinda and Cirie. Courtney’s actions were commented on by both Sally and Danielle. Bobby and Austin were not found in commenting on Aras. Second Nick’s performance at the Immunity Challenge (in the water) caused them to fall behind and Aras got them out of their predicament. Nick was never shown thereafter being condemned (since ultimately it didn’t matter) but in terms of editing these two events (and with a nice visual touch of his face bleeding along with Austin’s foot bleeding) it is something to note. Bobby surprised me somewhat. Upon his initial confessional regarding “beefcake, etc.” I expected a continuous implementation of this personality. This may not have happened because he was with all men (it will be interesting to see his behavior around the women) His first confessional obviously made him recognizable and thereafter he was included with the group in playing ball and I noticed that after the initial RC, he hugged Austin saying “That’s my boy” Bobby’s first confessional, mind you, was good t.v, it was a great comment so I am not surprised it was included and may have absolutely nothing to do with anything but a good comment Austin I think we were meant to like Austin. There was, again, a vibration from him that was meant for the audience to generally like him. Whether that has any bearing on his long term outcome remains to be seen. His original confessional about flirting was a nice fluff comment considering the tribe makeup and his tribe comment about not having a clue about what they are doing were harmless, essentially meant nothing but I do think he was meant to be shown to us. This group, while appearing completely inept (in a humorous way) seemed to be the tribe that was cohesive personality wise with no real problems other than the inability to “have a clue” The Younger Women Another group that highlighted one member not assimilating, this group had one less person to showcase their dynamics as a foursome but the audience was certainly meant to see that Courtney was the “odd man out” This does not mean Courtney will end up on the short end of the stick, however, as I still cannot quite forget the wink deliberately shown. For as much as Courtney thrives on this show, I’m sure her “character” will be featured. Courtney Both Aras and Courtney were shown to the audience visiting upon beliefs they had (Aras with his mental exercise and Courtney with her spiritual thoughts on the turtle) but unlike Austin, Courtney’s tribe mates both were put off by what she was doing Courtney confessional “Started off like underdogs.... ....so back and forth about the shelter, we were being women; unsure and indecisive” (This was reinforced by Sally) Sally confessional “I started to get frustrated, just a waste of time” (Like the younger men, these confessionals are reflecting the makeup of the tribe and how they are faring. They do not know what they are doing) Thereafter, we see the three of them happen upon the turtle Courtney confessional “It (the turtle) seemed so significant to me; it was like a symbol....” (with her comments on Mother Earth) In contrast: Sally confessional “I can’t fake that I’m deep into this, it’s a turtle” Danielle confessional “Courtney overdramatizes things...” The visual reaction both gave Courtney and the questioning remark Danielle made back to Courtney about rolling the turtle back into the water was a direct contradiction to what Aras wanted to do. Despite Nick’s comment, they joined Aras. We did not see Danielle or Sally join Courtney in what she wanted to do (if it was even done) Sally Sally was shown to be practical but obviously not as highlighted as her counterparts (events dictated Danielle be shown since she ran the RC and lost it for them and Courtney had a connection with the turtle) With only four members (and in this case, three present) each person merited a comment. It is too soon to tell what impact Sally may have in terms of longevity but there was no overt negativity or overt showing. Danielle Obviously shown initially in light of her failure at the reward challenge. One item that I always look at is how the reaction is after someone loses a challenge If you will recall both Katie and Rafe lost challenges for their tribe and we never heard from anyone negatively about that Danielle lost this challenge, offered to be exiled and was told no by her tribe. She commented herself that her tribe was “cool” about the situation and told her not On the boat it was commented that Misty (obviously) did not want to be on Exile Island with Danielle agreeing and smiling. Danielle was not “punished” for her losing the reward challenge. She was not even “punished” by Misty who would probably be forgiven if she did comment negatively about Danielle. Like past players, if a character is not “condemned” by a failure, it usually bodes well for them To further this, Danielle and Sally reacted negatively to Courtney offsetting even further anything Danielle had caused. Without Misty, the above group’s dynamics were not complete but it stands to reason, like the younger men, the younger women were not ready to begin their tribe and also were shown to lack a unified feeling. The difference though was once Misty came back to the IC (hugged by Courtney) as a foursome they were able to win that challenge Immunity Challenge The fun stuff continues with commentary: Jeff (showing the idol) “There is nothing more powerful than what?” Aras “Immunity” (Again, perhaps nothing but Aras was shown saying this) Jeff “Melinda watching them, trying to get a clue; that could be costly” Shot of Nick and Austin bleeding and ironic shot of Tina being the last to jump in over the barrier The Aftermath I won’t discuss too much of the events precipitating what occurred at Tribal Council but it was wholly apparent that Cirie had her sights set on Tina. Of note: Cirie (to Ruth) “I’m trying to win; I’m trying to go as far as possible (In light of her own admissions of what she is capable of and her comment at the TC, interesting to keep note that her “win” turned into “far as possible” Emphasis was made by Melinda in confessional that “Cirie is the weak link” We then are made sure to see Cirie being shown as the person “moving and shaking” the tribe to instigate a Tina boot. Tribal Council What a beautiful setting it was! An attempt was made for a bit of surprise but the overall presentation of Tina being shown loudly at times and a edited horrific comment about the other women not doing as much as herself was conclusive of her demise. Cirie “For the people on the couch, stay on the couch. (Jeff shown to laugh) But now that I’m out here I want to do more Cirie does certainly reflect a story building with the showing of her fear of leaves, her acknowledging that she is the least physically capable and her telling us she wants more does tend to reflect well on her building to something. Regardless of this, it is doubtful, Cirie will certainly be someone we hear from in light of her personality. At this point, I'm am still processing everything that occurred and since the tribe formations will be disbanded, the characters and their editing may go in different directions which should hopefully assist in their longevity since the dynamics should be very different, it will be interesting to see how their edits may change and how new relationships may appear and/or old ones may be embellished. Looking forward to everyone’s thoughts on the players, the game and, of course, the editing!   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-03-06, 06:14 PM (EST) 16. "RE: First Episode: all action or all talk" VS : Great analysis to get things started. I saw the episode as an opposition of the “Doers” versus the “Thinkers”. The Active Players For the old men tribes, I saw 3 players doing the job that was necessary to do at camp and at challenges: Terry: Won the RC. Took the map from Jiffy and assumed leadership quietly. He commented that “WE feel good” and he wanted to be sure the fire they built would be seen from the other islands to get an edge over the competition. He’s in game mode and his game will be physical. Dan: Very affable and good nature. He was almost always shown working. If Shane was shown opposing Bruce, Dan was shown exchanging with all. His alliance with Terry reminds me of Tom and Ian, (Ian must have aged fast after Palau!) except that it was revealed. We know what that means! Bruce: A workhorse. It’s too bad that at 58, spending 39 days out there might be too difficult to maintain that pace. However he is going to be very valuable to his tribe. We had many reaction shots and exclamations from him during Jeff’s talks so he should be there a while. For the older women, the only one remaining shown as hard worker is Ruth Marie. She had a good idea about standing behind Tina but then was absolutely silent when it came to keeping her shield and the only woman that could be on her side. All her work will have to be started over on her new tribe. For the young women, there wasn’t much work accomplished! For now, I see Danielle as a “doer” since she volunteered for the first RC and she wanted to accept responsibility for her own failure. Saying “Courtney overdramatizes” is very diplomatic in the context it happened. She seemed leading the tribe at immunity challenge, at least in guiding the raft. The Thinkers They fall mainly in 2 categories: The spiritual players or the scheming players. For the Spiritual Players: First we have Aras and his “energy creation” concepts. I never figured out what he wanted to accomplish but he got 2 of his tribesmate into it. Then of course we have Courtney and her “Mother Earth” turtle. I think that the wink we were meant to see these 2 exchanging is to prepare us for their connection somewhere down the line. (Those 2 could be related to Scout!!) For the Schemers: The most active was Cirie. She saved herself by convincing Ruth to vote against Tina. She may not help her teams in challenges but with that friendly personnality, she could make alliances easily and then place the target where she wants. Shane will also turn into a schemer when necessary. Is target was already set on Bruce. With comments such as: “they’re moronic”, I’m sure his game will be to convince people where to direct their votes. The Others I did not get a good fix on Misty and Bobby so I’m not sure where to put them yet. I did like Misty’s comment: “I hope they’re doing well so they’ll be strong at IC”. Finishing first was certainly more than she hoped for! Her timid bluff of finding the idol makes me hope she plans on being a physical player. As a schemer, she will be eaten alive! Bobby could be a Basher! He certainly gave our posters ideas for nicknames. Will he start working or is he just talk? Sally, Melinda, Austin and Nick didn’t fit in either categories. They all had some comments, especially Melinda and Sally but nothing very decisive. Finally our booted player Tina. It’s only coincidence, but isn’t it interesting that she was the only player that could fit in both the active and the spiritual category. (She even looks like a young Scout!). Usually in Survivor, you pay for sitting on the fence of alliances. This time it was a behaviour fence. In conclusion, I think we'll see a showdown between the Active Players and the Thinkers. They will be our long term players. It doesn’t bode well for the ones that are in neither categories. Sally, Melinda, Austin and Nick don’t fit in yet and Misty and Bobby better start playing.   Top

PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-04-06, 11:05 AM (EST) 18. "RE: First Episode" Thanks for the great analysis to get the season off to a great start, VS! Some of your Exile Island comments and also from others caused me to go back and take another look at the entire opening sequence with the RC to see if I could notice any further hints about where the II is. One thing that seemed to jump out to me was when Jiffy was explaining the use of the II, any time until there were 3 left in the game. He said "If someone has the most votes at Tribal Council and then pulls out the II, the person with the second most votes would then be booted from the game." The camera then panned to Cirie and focused on her for a few seconds as this was sinking in. The reason why I bring this up is that there's a potential spoiler lurking out there that Danielle and Cirie go head-to-head in a tiebreaker at F4 (depending on whether you believe Wickchix or ChillOne). There's also rumblings that at the family reward visit, Danielle spent time on Exile Island and missed seeing her family member. So. What if Danielle found the II during her time on Exile Island and tucked it away until she needed it in F4 ... and Cirie was the victim as she was the only other person besides Danielle to get votes at F4? Check out my Survivor Guatemala Finale episode summary A Tribe siggie "Tsk, tsk. Pepe's messing with the newbies again." Spidey, 3/30/05   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-04-06, 05:42 PM (EST) 19. "RE: First Episode" VS, it is good to see you in your usual exceptional form. Just wanted to throw in my two cents on the tribes, editing, and general themes. Older Men Overall this seemed to be the most organized tribe, especially when compared to the other tribes. I found it interesting that they were the last tribe to be showcased and the contrast was interesting. Don’t have a lot to say about this group that VS didn’t already say. I would like to add that Shane does have the potential to be the pre-merge narrator. He fits the profile. If he is I expect his elimination from the game will come from the OM group, specifically Bruce. However if someone else emerges as a pre-merge editor the friction between Shane and Bruce could end in another manner. Younger Men At first glance Aras appears to be the star of this tribe. His little “fire building” exercise was superfluous, and that early wink from Courtney are usually structured edits that represent some form of longevity. Austin could emerge as a narrator if he does it will help his longevity. Based on the pre-show buzz I expected Bobby to be much more of a character. That we did not hear more from him concerns me in regards to his longevity. Also his obvious exclusion in the Aras “fire building WTF” may put him on the outside of this group. I can’t say I got very much from Nick. Part of the problem is I keep confusing him with Austin. I have some concerns with both Nick’s and Bobby’s stay in this game. However, I did like the musical shift when they went from the Old Women to the Young Men. There was definitely a more fun upbeat tone. As a group the young men could do relatively well especially compared to the Old Women. Older Women I am not optimistic about the older women’s chances in this game. While Cirie is definitely long-term I did not get a very good vibe about anyone else in this group. My impression was that their decision to boot Tina was edited as a poor one. JP had a nice quote during RC Older Ladies you better kick it into gear; this is about over. We were able to see more of this tribe because they went to TC this week and as a result it is very difficult to determine what a long term edit versus a weekly edit is. I am going to watch Melinda closely. My first impression was that she was edited as a little bitchy. If she is developed in to a full character than she has a shot a making it a tad bit farther. I don’t have a ton of high hopes for Ruth Marie. Because this episode focused on the Older Women there was an opportunity to showcase her a bit more that they did. That they didn’t could hurt her. But it is still early. Young Women Because of Misty’s exile this was another group that received a bit more exposure when compared to the two male groups. We saw a lot of Misty because of her exile. I have to admit I did respect the way she handled it. But VS is correct, we are definitely going to have to adjust are perceptions of those on Exile Island as we see how different players are edited while there. Courtney had a very interesting edit. She was tied to Aras twice in this episode, once with the wink and once with the spiritually. I do not like that she was shown as outside her group, but with two ties to another player it is significant, although whether it is good or bad is tough to say. I don’t have much to add regarding Danielle. She received enough focus that I expect she may have some longevity. I am not a positive on Sally. Once again there was an opportunity to showcase her but we didn’t see or hear much from her. Overall, the most interesting aspect of episode 1 was the absence of any dominate themes this season. The one thing I did notice was the emphasis placed on the tribe interaction. With the Old Men Shane was out of the loop, with the young men it was Bobby, with the young women it was Courtney (although based on the preseason buzz I would have thought is was Misty), and with the Old Women it was Tina. In preseason interviews Jiffy alluded to the bonds forged in the first few days would be the bonds that would be the most important as the season progressed. How players react to next weeks merger will be significant. I expect the players with the strongest bonds within their groups and those with the ability to work with others outside their core group to be the most successful. The second theme is the spirituality displayed by Aras and Courtney in the first episode. Show me something once I am willing to say it is chance, show it to me twice it is a trend. Based on Jiffy’s pre-show interviews I think this will fit into a theme this season. Unfortunately, I have no clue what the theme will be. :^) Looking forward to another season.   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 02-06-06, 03:00 PM (EST) 21. "RE: First Episode" Great Post VS! This is my favorite part of each season of Survivor. The one thing that stuck out to me in the editing this first week was that we really only saw 3 people displayed as playing the game. Those 3 were Cirie (the most obvious and out in teh open) and then Terry and Dan (hand shake, discussion of their own personal strategy for keeping their secrets). Perhaps that is not abnormal, since there are 4 tribes and only so much time can be spent on each one, but I found that to be particularly interesting and perhaps a sign of things to come. The only other "game" comment that was made by any other player was Aras spouting off "Immunity" at the IC. This showedt that he was keenly aware of the game of Survivor, but I believe they all should be at this point. It seems significant that he was shown making the comment though, much like I believe it is significant that these other three were shown actually playing the game right away. Again, great post. Can't wait to see what else is in store.   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-07-06, 04:46 PM (EST) 23. "RE: First Episode" As one of the Older Women, I am concerned about the whole dead sea turtle incident. I'm wondering if the potential foreshadowing refers to the end game? Besides the turtle, there were several other spiritual references. As mentioned, the meditation circle is a spiritual exercise. Also, I think the space Tina found to connect with her son is very spiritual. Jeff's clue, "Why did fate choose you to be the first one here?" is spiritual bc fate is a spiritual concept. Note there was no word "behind" in Jeff's clue and so the technology engineer did not appear so brilliant. Also, at TC, Melinda stated "Survivor is very difficult bc it is all encompassing: physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually". So, either that statement was included bc of the spiritual reference, or just bc it is a valid statement. There were also many different skulls present, which might also represent the spirits. Another possible subtheme, at least for this episode, came with Tina's in-your-face "ALONE" comment. Obviously the word "alone" ties in with Exile Island. Also, premiering with small tribes, caused an emergence of more loners than usual. Shane, Courtney and Tina stood out as loners and as characters. Interestingly, Bobby was clearly out of the loop, yet he was not really featured, in fact he appeared as a silent observer LOL. Cirie and Aras stood out as characters, but not really loners. Terry and Dan had the only obvious alliance-type bond,(Tom & Ian?) and I think Danielle stood out as the potential jockett(Steph?). Misty, although the only one who was truly alone, was rather forgettable. So, I wonder whether the spiritual trend will continue and whether the alone theme will be woven throughout the season, with solo efforts and struggles? Will Exile Island serve as agonizing punishment, or as a spiritual retreat for those who find it difficult to cope with the others (Janu)? Reminder: If VS reads the "S-word", she might not read the rest of the post! Great analyses VS & Co.   Top

DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 02-09-06, 03:54 AM (EST) 25. "RE: First Episode" LAST EDITED ON 02-09-06 AT 03:54 AM (EST) I really don't have a lot to add, so I'm going to keep this short. THEMES The only real theme that I picked up on was spirituality. As VS already pointed out, the wink by Courtney and then the shot of Aras, coupled with the turtle and the spiritual exercise give us a hint that spirituality will play along. The fact that there is a skull on Exile Island and the breaking open of the skulls in the 1st RC just reinforced my impression. Something That Jeff Said Remember in the pre-show interviews given by Jeff how he said that because these tribes are small in number to start out with that the bonds formed will be stronger. This caught my attention. Even though there will more alliances formed after the merge, I believe that there will be smaller alliances within the large ones. Characters Shane, and his stress of not being able to smoke. Courtney and the turtle. Alliances Alliances revealed never work. Since only one was shown to us, that being between Dan and Terry we can rest assured that something will happen down the road between those two. Alliances can also be seen in voting during TC. Melinda and Ruth Maria appeared to be the deciding factors in the Tina boot. Longevity Althoug Dan and Terry are in an alliance I believe they are both going to be in this game for awhile, along with Danielle, Misty, Sally, Cirie, Aras, Austin and Bobby. All the rest I believe will be gone before the game goes to individual play. DRONES   Top

applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 02-03-06, 10:09 PM (EST) 17. "!" LAST EDITED ON 02-03-06 AT 10:29 PM (EST) Hi VS and everyone! SOrry I have been SO absent lately, but life just picked up a notch after christmas - I really haven't had much time to do anything! Basically, I'm not sure when I'll be able to join in on your discussion because I STILL don't know the premiere date for s12 in australia...If anybody could help me that would be great! Basically I'm just gunna do as much as I possibly can without actually seeing the episodes... It actually kind of stinks... HAve fun! ETA: I'm going to try to download some episodes... but I really can't do much without a premiere date for Australia - any help please? I wanna get into it!   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-04-06, 05:44 PM (EST) 20. "downloads" hey applejack, missed you! Not that I'm into pimping CBS products BUT I think their new download offer could solve your problems, 1.99 per episode pretty much right after the episode airs, straight from www.cbs.com, on the left side of the page. Unless you have a format compatibility problem due to your location? My experience with "purchased" downloads is they are much much faster than the free ones. Haven't downloaded cbs but have bought Lost episodes through itunes and was really happy with the download speed and quality. PS. If you haven't checked your inbox and board email lately, you should!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-07-06, 04:37 PM (EST) 22. "RE: " Great thoughts everyone; keep them coming! applejack - I do hope we can get you to see the shows. I had, while watching the first episode, keyed in on some very dramatic music and was tempted to post but had figured you would do the honors so let us know how you make out michel and WLR - always nice to get a feel for the characterization of how the themes may go and we definitely saw active players and thinking players and spirituality most definitely was thrown into the mix. We need to keep the proverbial eye on whether they run over to this episode in some fashion. With Survivor and themes/stories, the progression is there, if not subtle. I usually do not compare past players to present ones in order to determine longevity but I do like to revisit the prior season to see if MB and company attempt to “tweak” how they edited the show. In light of the very subtle editing of Danni last season, we may have a season with more bold features but first and foremost, if I can identify the “story” that is trying to be told, the end players usually fall into place. As we all noticed, there was unnecessary and heavy emphasis on both Courtney and Aras’ spiritual (earthy) type mind sets. Was it NECESSARY to the outcome of the episode? Absolutely not especially in light of the fact that their tribes didn’t even go to Tribal Council. In light of this, these two (or their practices) may have been shown to further establish what the story may try to unfold at some point. Again however, that is not necessarily to mean that either/or these two players have longevity. I won't revisit everything I said about the contrast that Aras and Courtney had in the way their practices were edited to be received. That is where editing comes into play. The fact that Courtney and Aras were also deliberately shown to be related (with the wink) can’t go unnoticed either. One can speculate in some aspect this spirituality may be integral to the full story. Exile Island as it is, has an aura of mystery as well with a nice little nod at "fate" that Jeff mentions In revisiting this episode, I wanted to watch without taking any specific notations and the show did resonant with those who appeared to “do” and those who appeared to “think or feel” as michel and WLR were discussing. MDSkinner your comments on those you keyed on as “playing the game” is also always important as well because those people either tend to do pretty well or they are setting up a story for another person or their tribe. Again, however, the tribes will be disbanded in short order so this upcoming episode should be very telling since we have old and young merging and male and female merging and those with completely different mindsets merging. There is no question in my mind however that Terry and Dan’s exchange, Shane’s issues (with himself and Bruce), Aras and Courtney’s “spirituality” and Cirie’s methods left the biggest imprints on my mind at the end. Longevity at this point is a slippery slope with only one episode and four temporary tribes but I do remind myself that the first boot (and this is a first boot of sorts) is usually the one who is too bossy or loud (the Debs, the Johns) too lazy or sick or old (the Sonya's, the Diane's, the Janet's) or too (perceived) antisocial/different (the Peter's, the Kel's) with the always safe boot of who cost us the win in conjunction with a personality issue. Other than that, I won't begin to attempt to focus on who would be booted other than to say that those potential themes and stories we are seeing born will need some of those players in order for them to happen. Also to watch for are those who may be playing clinically, under the radar (which can mean different thingg (as I had explained last season to my thoughts on that label) and the head of household in some aspect.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-08-06, 01:09 PM (EST) 24. "RE: " Here, here VS, you are so dead on with your thoughts, it's scary to me. I agree the things that stuck out, like the spirituality of Courtney, Aras and the wink, the methods of Cirie, Shane's issues, and Terry and Dan's agreement were edited in to play out later, to set the stage, so to speak....So with that, I am fairly certain that none of these characters are very early boots. I have really enjoyed reading all of the posts and want you to know that I am indeed here, but RL is a bit busy for the next week or so, so don't have too much to add. Keep up the great thoughts!   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-11-06, 01:56 PM (EST) 26. "Episode 2: Headgames" LAST EDITED ON 02-11-06 AT 02:07 PM (EST) Looks like I'm getting things started this week. This episode could've been titled: "HEADGAMES" Not only the Zombies needed to have their heads put back on straigth! But first, I’ll start with La Mina who appears to be a well oiled machine. Almost all the players identified as “doers” last week are on this tribe: Terry is definitely playing as leader, trying Tom’s recipe for success. He wants to be Head of Household by being the father figure of his tribe. The major problems I see in his edit is that we already see him complaining about Sally. Worse, he was the only one to express his complaint. And we are seeing him forming alliances too openly. It can’t be too good down the road. We saw more of Misty during her exile than Bruce this week which could be a good sign for her. She’ll have more impact on the game than him. She took much of the stage for La Mina. We had great visuals of her throughout the episode. We saw she suffered during exile but still, she is very positive. (Give the girl more papayas please!). She showed athletic moves on the bars to retrieve the snakes and was the one grabing the immunity idol! Her comment to Sally about not worrying for the loss of the spear was needed comfort. She could be taking the role of the sister to some and the seductress to others. It could be a dangerous combination. The idol bluff can be her demise. Sally, Nick, Dan ( no mention of an “Astronaut on Survivor” during the promos isn’t a good sign) and Ruth are going to play as followers. They may have success but won’t be the impact players. Austin may be a clinical player, not wasting time on feelings getting hurt in this tug-of-war but I don’t see him deciding the votes. Without having seen this tribe react to an impending TC makes it difficult to determine what will happen. The characters presented make me think a showdown is going to happen to control the followers in this tribe. Did Terry make a mistake by forgetting to include the women? Can Misty, with Sally’s help, get Austin and Nick away from Terry? Booting Dan would deprive him of support. Will they stay united, call a truce and start by booting Ruth when it comes to it? Casaya is a tribe living on the edge. They have the schemers and the spiritual players. No wonder they were inept and going backwards at IC! Melinda said they had that cool, meditative, California new-age attitude that she couldn’t fit in. Shane is a wreck waiting to happen. We saw his attitude towards working hard at camp in his comment about the old men’s tribe. He will be hated by many, loved by the fans of drama and cause a lot of problems to his tribemates! Watching him, what started like despair, may have turned into strategy. Seeing he was alone from La Mina on Casaya, he did want to go home but when he saw Aras and the others rallying him, he may have seen it as a way to get power. Dangerous play but he could be going “all or nothing”. An outsider without power finishes somewhere in the middle, like BJ did. Shane is not BJ! He won’t lead camplife but will decide that “if you don’t go now, you will go next!” Aras is playing a dangerous game. He takes leadership of the tribe and makes decisions without consulting his alliance. His move ressembled that of a head coach who forgives one player’s poor performance and sends another away without good reason. Being already questionned is a bad sign, coaches get fired quickly! Danielle is playing quietly, behind the scene. She was seen comforting Melinda after Aras dropped his bomb. Her words during the vote was that Melinda knew “how I felt and that I was outnumbered”. Was she trying to guide votes towards Shane or Cirie? A conflict with Aras is going to happen down the road, especially if she didn’t agree with keeping Shane. Courtney showed her new-age psychology to Shane: “Don’t fall down on this moment”. The whole Casaya story was seen through her eyes and judged by her comments. She was the one that let us know Aras’ comments came as a bomb and that it was a “stupid move”. She also realizes that all this “instability means that he won’t be there for us”. Cirie, our other schemer is in a difficult situation. We didn’t see who finally decided it would be Melinda instead of her. That means she has an ally. Can she latch on to that person? Being already in a desperate situation means Cirie will not be an impact player. She will always be seen and have her share of confessionals but the action will be around her and about her but not coming from her. I thought the camera was said to add 10 pounds. To Bobby it seems to have taken 250 pounds away. As a big guy ever been so invisible? The next IC should be right up his alley. Is CBS waiting for that performance to introduce him? If not, then he will go quietly without any impact. Bruce, as an exiled player wasn’t seen much. He will be a valuable worker on his tribe but it won’t be HIS game. In conclusion, last week we had 5 “doers”, 4 “thinkers” and 2 who we couldn’t decide on. The shuffle made some gameplay come into focus and showed that some of those will not be impact players. The impact players will be Terry, Misty, Shane, Aras and Danielle. Their actions will be the ones that will shape this story. Austin, Courtney and Cirie will be the ones narrating it. The others are followers who will tag along. Feels a little lonely here... I know a boot order has been set but it should never be taken as gospel. There is a story that is being told that a booting order can't reveal. It more fun to analyze it this way than by saying: "IF C1 is right then..."   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-11-06, 08:25 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Episode Two" michel, I am so glad you chimed in and please forgive me if I repeat anything you may say as I make it a practice of writing out my thoughts first then posting them. As far as information you speak of, as you know I stay away from that arena since I feel it subconsciously can change opinions as we are, like the contestants, only human So onto yet another LONG post ahead. Another interesting episode and this time Shane was the star no doubt. He was the main narrator throughout the episode. The fact is that as a “character” he stands out but there is more involved with his story. For example, the heavy emphasis on his son could not go unnoticed yet while this may be shown to evoke some understanding of Shane, by no means is he a sympathetic character The Recap Obviously the scenarios of the new season were discussed and naturally the booted player, Tina, was discussed. We also saw how the younger men and younger women struggled (Sally shown frustrated) and we saw as well, again, Dan and Terry’s handshake. Shane’s issue was brought forth to no surprise and we saw Misty with respect to her exile. Naturally Cirie was also shown feeling vulnerable and campaigning along with Melinda at TC responding to Tina’s comments about working. Melinda Briefly to discuss our boot……I don’t think it was too much of a surprise considering who was on that tribe. Discussing last week, we knew Courtney and Aras’ spirituality had a current of a longer term story, Shane’s issues were no doubt there to evolve and Cirie was clearly shown to be playing a game of which she wants to see how far she can go. Danielle, Bobby and Melinda were potentially the only three who did not have as much invested in the first episode (Danielle needed to be shown as she ran and lost the RC for the young women. I’ve mentioned before that someone who loses a challenge though and no issue is set forth about it tends to bode well for that person so she wasn’t in any immediate danger, Bobby was not much of a presence in the first episode except for his memorable confessional and Melinda was edited to appear more as Cirie’s “second in command” than anything of major substance) It was nice to see Melinda and Cirie’s bond so early on though; I enjoy seeing that as Survivor often doesn’t showcase women “bond” nearly as much as male “bond” The Elements The storm held a major impact on the beginning of the show and really was the star of the first portion. What was interesting to observe was how each of the four tribes were shown. Interestingly enough, the male tribes were shown during the storm and the women tribes were shown the day after. Whether this means anything is neither here nor there but I never take Survivor editing for granted With the older men featured during the storm, Shane was the primary focus, narrating the events about the shelter and the storm along with a statement that people who love editing would fine intriguing Shane “This place breeds bad luck” (One has no choice but to wonder if this is foreshadowing; consider where he said this at the older men’s camp; does the bad luck being bred follow Shane or does it happen at the older male’s camp now LaMina?) The younger men weren’t faring any better in the storm; the group briefly shown and probably only Austin’s comment merited notable attention. Austin “We’re dying fellas” (Again, perhaps an interesting foreshadow; since Austin and Nick are together now, would that reference them or does it reference the young men as a whole?) The older women were shown in the aftermath of the storm with the three women trying to get the fire started. Much like the rest of the episode Ruth Marie was virtually non-existent whereas we saw a new and improved? Cerie making the fire. Melinda was shown verbally as well which would not be surprising since she is AND she left this episode. The younger women were shown in good spirits with Courtney and Sally getting papaya. Visually the camera focused more on Misty with her enjoyment over the papaya. At this time, we can’t be sure if visuals pay as much as a part as some other seasons but the scene revolved mostly around Misty’s enjoyment which may bode well for her. The day after again showed the older men again with Shane being the focus in narration: Shane “I think about everything I’m missing now…. my kid, football practice…. I miss him so much; no reason for me to be doing this. I don’t know why I did this to myself. My life is very busy…. (As with many seasons, this type of confessional is very reflective and “journey” like. Generally speaking, it does bode well for someone this early on as we are meant to see a journey by this person; the fact that Shane is also shown in a strategic mode (not necessarily a good one, but one nevertheless) also bodes fairly well. I must say that the editors intent to “soften” Shane by the music behind this confessional as well as his statements, probably did not work quite as well as with someone else because Shane, although did show a sympathetic moment, fell short later with his shenanigans. We aren’t meant to root for him in totality but it is impossible not to ignore the fact he DOES love his son. Regardless, Shane has been set up in both these episodes as someone who is making an impact on this season in some form and we may see him reach full circle when he is shown to make peace with various issues) Shane “No more torrential down pours Sir God” (I think where Shane is concerned the downpours have just begun) The Twist Like all twists in this show, we are meant to see the impact it has thereafter. This twist was also helpful because we saw a selection. Much like Palau, there were hints of alliances in the making, relationships forming which we may see here as well. Terry picks “green sweats” = Sally Sally picks “the fast guy” = Austin Austin picks “Exile Island over there” = Misty Misty picks “Nick” = Nick Nick picks “Lady in pink tank top” = Ruth Marie Ruth Marie picks “This young man right here” = Dan Naturally we know Dan was one of two left, i.e. Bruce but let’s not forget that Dan was extremely grateful to Ruth Marie. Terry being the first picked Sally, a potential future partnership or a future potential odds (in light of the spear incident?) Sally notes Austin as the fast guy which is self explanatory. Interestingly, Misty knew Nick’s name and said it without reservation which may be interesting in terms of what we see Misty employ for the next show with her flirting. Not surprising at this point, Nick would pick Ruth Marie since the selection was narrowed down. Danielle picks “the cool guy with the Boston tattoo” = Shane Shane picks “You right there, little lady” = Courtney Courtney picks “Red shirt” = Aras Aras picks Cerie (with pronunciation issues) = Cerie Cerie picks “This guy right here” = Bobby Bobby has no choice but to select Melinda Interesting how the selection ended up firming up the alliance, Danielle, Shane, Courtney and Aras were selected right in a row. What I found interesting was Aras’ selection of Cerie most of all. And then there was Bruce “My own tribe” (Potential for that underdog edit, not part of any real group, will people root for him, time will tell) Bruce ”I would be very disappointed (if he had to go home) because I came here to win” (This statement means nothing since he was featured as a lone person and it needed to be said) The reaction shots, however, were focused on Courtney (contemplative) and Cerie (shocked) Those visuals are what we need to remember more than what Bruce said as I am sure others were reacting as well. The Reward Challenge LaMina wins this challenge and nothing extremely relevant in terms of the challenge occurred except Shane falling, however, it happened. We may never know if OTHERS fell; if others did fall, Shane’s fall could be important but it may not be. Shane’s fall wouldn’t matter any way; his “character” seems clearly important to the show right now. After the loss, however, Melinda shown disappointed, Danielle shown stating that it sucked and Aras shown looking very disappointed Jeff “You guys worked well together; I don’t even think you were out hustled, you just lost” (a shot of Danielle was shown immediately after) And Sally was last shown holding the LaMina flag upright in victory although with her back turned toward the camera. The Tribes Casaya I think it is fair to say that Casaya showed more dynamics but this is not surprising in light of their going to Tribal Council along with losing the challenge. Shane(to Bobby and the women) “We didn’t stop working like those dues were just like we are fifty and we are gonna show you how to survive and I was just like no, older guys, I’m 34 going on 12” Shane (confessional) “I’m in a much better mood than I was this morning; I always related better with younger people…. When I was with the older tribe I was thinking every single minute about when I was leaving, I haven’t really thought about leaving” (Note that this confessional continues with him discussing about who he picked for his alliance; the setting was the same but it obviously needed to be broken down in light of the fact the alliance discussion came later) During the brief introduction about the shelter, Bobby was shown but extremely quiet and “hanging” back. This essentially was what happened with Bobby the ENTIRE time. While we know Bobby was part of the group that voted with Melinda, we also know he was not part of the four person alliance and was seen with Cerie and Melinda. Bobby is in a precarious situation not only in light of the fact he was not made part of the dominant alliance but he LITERALLY was not shown and this is someone who appeared to have a very strong personality. Unfortunately, like Ruth Marie (as discussed later) Bobby is not integral to this season’s story Courtney was shown chatting away and it was made a point to show Cerie’s reaction with her confessional Cerie “Oh my God we have been invaded; some of the people like Danielle, she’s okay but Courtney…. (We then see the funny exchange of Cerie saying “like” and cutting to Courtney saying “like”) Melinda “It’s like that game where you have to figure out what doesn’t belong (It is just then a shot of SHANE is shown walking with his back to us) in a group and Cerie and I are the ones that stick out.” and then “If we lose the upcoming IC, I think Cerie and I are screwed” (a nice little dramatic drum of music with a shot of Danielle) “Yep, we’re screwed” (Obvious foreshadowing) Casaya’s Alliance As we all know, something laid out neatly to the audience is destined to fail. We were at court side listening to Shane advise Courtney and Danielle that the three of them and Aras were going to the final four Shane “The three of us and Aras” Danielle and Courtney “Totally” Shane “Can we not make it dramatic (this coming from Shane?) and cheat each other five people in; just the four of us go to the four, done. No more discussion about it” (Editing rule of thumb, announcements such as this are doomed to fail, these four will not go to four and as some of you may know, when I hear a number, it makes me suspicious; the number “five” had me raise an eyebrow; will one of these people be let go in five more boots? Time will tell but quite often a number stated does have meaning) Shane (confessional) “If I can just get through this part and do well in the challenges, we are gonna be fine. I got on the beach and I was right there, you, you, you, you, let’s lock in right now (This was the rest of the confessional that started with Shane discussing how much happier he was) Shane “I swear on my son’s life, it’s us four….. if any of you screw me I’ll find you and kill you” (The other signs of doom, swearing is never a good sign that it will work out but interesting how we see Shane advising them about what will happen if he is screwed. This is a bit different than how Twilla’s “swear” was shown. Twilla swore but SHE did the screwing, Shane is swearing but letting them know how he will feel if HE is screwed) While Shane is discussing this, we see Bobby, Melinda and Cerie walking in the background. Considering Melinda is gone and Bobby shows virtually no signs of longevity, I would suspect this foursome may be usurped due to Cerie Danielle (confessional) “In the first five minutes, he was like us four, the people who don’t talk and communicate and see what’s going on and see how people are feeling and look people in the eye, they are the ones who get voted off” (Strategic confessions again usually bode well in terms of longevity; it’s a bit soon to tell with Danielle but it is never a BAD thing when we hear someone discussing the game) LaMina Definitely a less dramatic tribe, there are hints of issues yet to come. Dan “I was thrilled…. Ruth Marie did pick me; this was the team I definitely wanted to be on.” Note Sally already dubbing Terry “fighter” (There is definitely some connection between these two, his selection, the nickname and the spear events; it remains to be seen as to whether it becomes positive or negative) Dan “Terry and I have a fantastic relationship and strategy that will take us all the way so it’s great” (Important comment considering the handshake between these two and ultimately something may impede on their progress all the way. At this point Dan does seem to have some narrator possibilities which is usually good. There is a strong connection between Dan and Terry which was furthered by Terry’s discussion with the two younger men and it is interesting to note that TERRY is the one that actively approached the men, not Dan. Dan, however, played a role narrating his thoughts on his and Terry’s efforts) Terry “Dan and I were talking, we’d like to make a bond with you guys; look each other in the eye, shake hands and say we are going to do our best to get everyone to the merge but if we have to start dropping people it’s not going to be one of us four guys” (This was FULL of potential foreshadowing; the word “bond” used instead of “promise” is interesting; the term “do our best” instead of guarantee; “merge” used instead of final four, all FULL of situations that may occur. Somehow, some way, one or more of these four may not see the merge and somehow, someway, this bond is not written in stone) Austin “It’s in our best interest, probably” (Probably is right) Terry “You have my word” (The word that you have a bond and you will your best to get them to the merge?) Nick “It makes a lot of sense” Nick (confessional) “Terry just laid it out there that him and Dan are together and they want Austin and I together with them; I think him and Dan are strong players…”(I have stated before someone being discussed by someone else is usually a good sign for that person. Both Dan and Nick discussed Terry and Nick also mentions Dan) The handshake with the three of them is shown and noted Nick (confessional) “It makes sense for the short term in the tribe; the four of us really have nothing to worry about with the majority over the three women but you never really know what’s going to happen” (Good comment but you then ask what did Austin say? What did Dan and Terry say? Nick is perhaps shown for a reason, editing dictates that his discussion that it is “short” term and “nothing to worry about” and “majority” over the women and “you never really know” is too good to pass up. The fact that it comes from Nick may indicate he is the consequence from his confessional however it is hard to determine longevity on his or Austin’s part since this tribe was not visited as much in light of their winning later. I would suggest that Nick’s comments may be those ironic statements that could come back to haunt him) Sally “Let’s talk strategy for a minute. I talked to Misty, we were thinking the four of us stick together, me, you and (pause then both say) Nick. We would have the numbers and and it feels even, two guys and two girls and we can figure it out from there. Talk to Nick when you can” Again, another discussion of an alliance, needless to say the combination of Sally/Misty/Nick/Austin and the combination of Dan/Terry/Nick/Austin will probably NOT come to fruition and we may see another combination occur. Notable also is the exclusion of Ruth Marie, much like we saw with Bobby also unfortunately suggesting that Ruth Marie does not have longevity. Two episodes in and both Bobby and Ruth were practically forgettable does not say much for their presence in the story Austin (confessional) “It is definitely Austin and Nick in the middle of a tug of war. It lets me know the game is serious; this isn’t just fun and games, somebody is going to have to get hurt out there” (Being in the middle can often backfire on someone, the TC this group has to attend should be interesting and it stands to reason that Ruth Marie may have one safe TC and either Nick or Austin are in trouble) We then hear from Terry discussing the fishing gear and bringing in fish which is obviously a story set up for what is to come with Sally and Terry’s disapproval of the occurrence and of course the notable remark of: ”Just remember to hold onto it” Sally “I’m such a valuable tribe mate” (naturally this is being sarcastic in light of losing the spear) We know Nick and Sally were on the boat and Sally lost the spear. Situations such as this are shown because it is an event occurring outside the normal realm of the daily camp life. They are ALSO shown when it potentially sets up the dynamic of relationships between players. In this instance, the ones that we were meant to appear focused on were Sally and Terry perhaps in light of a relationship that will develop with them. As a comparison, Shane’s confessionals in episode one clearly showed Bruce as the visual partner to his verbal discussions. With this occurrence, while Nick and Misty were shown to “comfort” Sally and Terry and Dan were shown slightly “annoyed” by the situation, clearly Terry was the focused person in providing reaction to the events. Again, the situation occurred but the manipulation of who is providing the most memorable reaction and the tension it creates may be the intent to come. The Exiled One We are only at the second exiled person which we indicated that the exiled person can give off a misleading aura of longevity since they will no doubt be featured. Now Misty was in full context of her tribe this episode and she was shown as a neutral character and on the positive side which is not harmful but not necessarily anything terribly long standing. She was only briefly shown at Exile Island and I did not feel her time there was portrayed in any unnecessary way. I would think after a third person was there we may have a better idea how the time on Exile Island may showcase a longer term player but onto Bruce Bruce “It will clear my mind (martial arts), focus, get my mind ready for battle” Bruce is shown, like Misty, discussing the idol and clue and since he received flint, attempting fire “It’s all worn out” We see him during a storm also…. Bruce “This place… …evil… …not good to be here… I would not wish this on my worst enemy” In comparing Bruce’s stay with Misty, I can only say that what stood out was the absence of the game by Bruce. He was featured more as a person per se but in light of the fact that we have never seen a martial arts expert, I am not surprised that this was featured. My concern for Bruce as far as end game is there were no confessionals shown about the game or his strategy; at least, with Misty, we saw evidence of her attempts in utilizing her stay at Exile Island; with Bruce, we did not hear anything. Yes, Bruce did not NEED to worry about being voted out but we heard nothing from him in terms of the tribe he was joining, who he may be replacing, who he may seek information from. This does not mean that Misty is an end game player either because I found her stay at EI a little short also. I think that our third exiled person who is still vulnerable at their Tribal Council may help us the most and I firmly believe that if someone is an end game player and is exiled, there is going to be a notable difference. At this early juncture, Bruce is probably not considered end game with the lack of game discussion and Misty I have doubts about because she was the FIRST exiled. The Immunity Challenge Ah, trust Shane to tell it like it is in his state of withdrawal. Misty “We are upbeat; kind of our rule, don’t get down and out, just be thankful and stay positive” and then….. Shane “I’m not gonna lie; we are in a dire situation, the whole Ooh let’s act like we are doing alright so the other tribe thinks we’re fine… …we are NOT in a good way (heavy thump and Courtney shown) …physically we’re wrecked (heavy thump and Cerie shown) (Note that the shot of Cerie was inserted on purpose; again manipulated camera shots is intended for reasons. Cerie’s stance was the same angle as when she was looking over and listening to Misty. She couldn’t have been looking at Shane with the way she was standing and where her eyes were going and the reaction on her face; Cerie is EXTREMELY expressive, her face would never have shown that type of neutral reaction if she was listening to Shane’s discussion. This was intentional because the audience is meant to feel Cerie’s reaction as well as Courtney’s reaction thus reinforcing the earlier premise that the four person alliance of Shane/Danielle/Courtney and Aras will be broken down by Cerie) The challenge ensues and Jeff makes no bones about Casaya Jeff “Casya’s going backwards” Jeff “LaMina is in the lead but only because Casays is absolutely inept” Naturally Shane’s lack of challenge help was “called” out by Jeff. Couple that with Shane being shown falling at the reward challenge is interesting. Shane seems to do things hazardous to health and may be hazardous to his tribe The Start of theEnd Shane “Whenever there’s a competition I hate to lose… I’m beat… I wanna call my kid… This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life… I am not well without him… (and he becomes emotional) Again, Shane is NOT a sympathetic character though the editing “attempts” to soften him with multiple discussions about his not holding up well and how much he needs his son. There is an “attempt” I should say to try and soften him as much as humanly possible which in actuality may be good for his longevity BUT there is no question we were meant to feel WORSE for Cerie and Melinda because not only does Shane behave quite unlikeable, both women in his alliance felt badly for Cerie and Melinda. We then see a long discussion involving Shane’s wanting to quit his stay on the island Danielle “It only gets better from here” (possible foreshadowing?) Courtney”You’re dropping on us too” Courtney (confessional) “Shane is letting us down.. …Come on man, pick it up!” Naturally Melinda telling Cerie and Bobby needed to be shown since, of course, it involves their standings. Cerie “You have people begging to stay here and somebody wants to quit, let him quit!” We then see Aras counseling Shane and mind you, this happens LATER as opposed to immediately after the water scene. Both Aras and Shane’s hair are dry in this encounter suggesting this is closer to the looming Tribal Council Aras “You have my word on that” “I’ll vote you home.. my word and believe me, everyone will be down with it” “So, who do you want to vote out to leave” Again, this was a somewhat strange conversation, I think we may have jumped a time segment since it does occur later in the day but the main intent was to show Aras being the person to actively attempt to change the outcome and be extremely pointed and emphatic with Shane Aras “Shane wants to stay; I just want to do this with honesty and openness and where I stand here I want to try to be as physically strong as possible so I think for me, I’m going to go with my vote for either you or you” (Obviously Cerie and Melinda) Courtney “You just dropped a bomb over here” Courtney (confessional) “Aras came over… not speaking with anyone else what they want to do and he said Cerie or Melinda are going to go home tonight. It was so stupid….” (the confessional then continues after we see Shane tell Cerie and Melinda that the four have an arrangement) …”then Shane piped in and literally just said right out loud we have an alliance; you don’t tell everyone what’s going on! If the total instability continues, it’s going to be very hard to know he’s going to be there for us” In the midst of the confessional: Shane (to Melinda and Cerie) “Whoever doesn’t go now is going next” (And we KNOW these types of statements never come to fruition) Courtney was focused quite a bit showing her disapproval of what occurred and a big narrator of the events that happened although she ultimately did vote out Melinda. Interestingly enough, Aras, was never shown discussing his rationale or reasoning on the events that he was a main instigator and I don’t think we were meant to agree with how he handled the situation in light of Courtney’s disapproval, Danielle’s hug to Melinda and even Shane telling the two women that Aras’ approach was a little cold. While we did not hear anything directly from Danielle in terms of how she felt we know she felt bad. Obviously this “happy” foursome is not going well already. I don’t think the audience was meant to approve of how Aras handled this situation despite that his INTENTIONS were admirable enough (being open and honest) Shane “Cerie or Melinda are gonna go, 1,2 whatever. They’re the first two to go. The thing I don’t feel safe about is my brain. I have this part of me that wants to go to TC and say clip me out” (Again, statements such as this rarely ever come to fruition, Cerie is almost assuredly NOT going next with all that has been presented in the editing and this foursome will be broken down) Again, let’s not mistake an edit of someone who has potential to grow as to someone who is not privy to the story. Bobby had absolutely no voice in this episode. We heard nothing about his thoughts on who was going despite the fact that he appeared rather close to Cerie and Melinda and while we know he ended up voting Melinda, we saw nothing in terms of how he felt about any of it. Bobby gives off absolutely nothing in terms of longevity but I do feel that we will see an incline of some visibility by him just prior to his leaving Tribal Council Shane “Worse thing that ever happened to me in my entire life… couldn’t get out of my mania of dehydration… …psychotic bad idea detox…” Cerie “Everyone was okay with everyone else until today… …told it us four and one of you all are going home today…” “…disappointment my family would have is bad… ….I would be disappointed, part of the reason I came here was to help them” (Recall Shane’s earlier words about questioning why he was there when they didn’t need the money as opposed to Cerie being there to help her family) Jeff “This tribe seems a little all over the map, curious how it will play out” The first show introduced us to concepts that were shown to be stories in the making with certain people that definitely stood out among the rest. At the older men’s tribe, it was all Shane all the time; this did not change. The younger men, while shown to be fairly harmonious did focus on Aras’ unconventional methods of concentration, Courtney was shown at the younger woman’s tribe being observed by the other women as extremely strange in terms of her spiritual nature and the older women featured our first boot which is normal and Cerie, a woman clearly out of her element who narrated the camp’s situation and was shown to be the main player in ousting Tina. It is quite ironic that these four are now thrown together on Casaya. Regardless, the Casaya tribe will now receive Bruce as a member How will this shake up the dynamics? Recall Bruce and Shane’s first episode parallels; will that story pick up now and how will that affect the four person alliance and the vulnerability of Cerie and Bobby? At LaMina, Terry and Dan’s first episode alliance is furthering its stay and now we have a very interesting situation with Nick/Austin/Dan/Terry vs. Nick/ Austin/Misty/Sally developing. Ruth Marie really has no “legs” in terms of longevity BUT she may be used as a catalyst to throw a wrench in the four vs four situation before she leaves and there appears to be a potential situation brewing between Sally and Terry While I’m still pondering the end game players, my confidence in some of the players is questionable but many times I go back to my “check” list. If players are discussed by other people (whether bad or good) it actually is not a bad thing. If players are shown discussing the game, it can fairly positive for longevity as long as they are not overshadowed by another player doing so. If players are consistent with their face time or get an increase that isn't suspicious, it is positive as well and if the players appear to be integral on how a story is playing out, this also can be positive though it doesn’t necessarily mean they win. Characters with journey’s usually do fairly well but if their journey overshadows the game than I would suggest the person does not win. I would love to hear from everyone and michel, I enjoyed your thoughts and the “head games” you spoke about. I certainly see these “head games” occurring on both tribes and frankly also find it fascinating that the audience has literally been slapped with alliances this abruptly. It seems that they can only result in a complete meltdown in some way, shape or form.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-12-06, 02:33 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Episode Two" VS, you never have to apologize to me since this is your thread. I only contribute a point of view and I thank you for your feed-back. You never cease to amaze me with your reconstruction of quotes, putting them in the right time frame and pointing to their hidden meaning. Your analysis of the storm edit is very interesting and certainly the first storms came from the men, Shane and Aras and not the women. If I'd been more patient, I may have given less importance to Misty. I may have put too much importance in her exile edit, the visuals we had during the challenges and her being in the middle of Austin and Nick during the tribe selection. I may also have been influenced by the previews! Maybe Sally is the impact player that will try and get Nick and Austin away from Terry. When Terry said to Nick and Austin that we would try and get everyone to merge, I don't think he meant only all 4 of them but rather everyone in La Mina as Koror had done. That is why I didn't think his using the merge rather than final 4 was a bad sign. The fracture in La Mina comes from Terry making an alliance with Austin and Nick without including the women. We know Austin likes to flirt and Nick's bio tells us he came on Survivor to meet women! He should've gotten to know his alliance members! Saying that Shane is Hazardous to his tribe made me laugh. Maybe one of his tattoos is a warning like they have on cigarette packs! His crisis has shown him he can trust Aras, Danielle and Courtney. That's power in this game. Despite Courtney's comment on instability, they don't have that assurance from Shane. He's the one that said he could make friends and cut throats!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-13-06, 11:11 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Episode Two" Actually michel, in terms of editing observations, putting too much importance on something is only something to be recognized in hindsight as anything can mean something so your observations on Misty should most definitely remain of importance. Exile Island as we already discussed will be a new situation in terms of the person being exiled. Misty's showing on Exile Island will only become important when we see others exiled. However, when I watched her exile, everything that was shown seemed consistent with what I perceived an exile would show. My concern over Misty being at the end game was simply in light of the fact that there didn't appear to be any real manipulation to her stay. Her strategy discussion was actually a good thing but I do wonder if we will not see that with virtually every exiled person. Bruce was not necessary because he was safe that evening but my concern for Bruce was that essentially NO strategy was shown at all and even worse, we didn't even hear from him about how he felt going to this new tribe. Misty is obviously someone who was shown for the preview next week as using her methods of persuasion so she indeed may have the impact over Nick and Austin though in terms of those who are "stuck in the middle" as Austin implied to us, I actually get more concerned about the those who ARE in the middle as playing "both sides" is potentially dangerous and I question whether Nick may pay the price for it. Although Ruth Marie's virtual invisibility certainly does not bode well for her and she may get only face time during her episode boot, more times than not, there is a little more "due" given to someone prior to their leaving. Misty's actions may be more about Nick's demise than end game play on her part but this remains to be seen This episode will be almost as if it were the second episode since the tribes formed only last episode and the dynamics will be fleshed out a little bit more (though I am still taken aback how quickly we learned of the various alliances and I don't need to repeat how I feel about those admissions ) Also interesting will be Bruce's entrance to his tribe and how this may fare with those who are aligned (and not) as well as the tension that was showed through Shane's eyes at the older male camp. I see no reason to believe that Shane's annoyance at Bruce (visually) is just done and over with. Shane told us that he didn't fit in with the entire tribe yet Bruce was shown as the main subject of his annoyance; this obviously makes sense since they ended up together. It will be interesting to see if it is furthered or not.   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-13-06, 09:28 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Episode Two" VS, Michael, it appears we are the only three here. I guess that is what happens when the spoilers think they have something . I am really trying to stay away from the spoilers this season and I know I can always count on VS for her always unbiased presentation. You guys have done a great job breaking down the episode, so I am just going to add a few thoughts. The Recap Bruce was emphasized by his Karate chop. This seems to be a trend with his editing. We saw it several times in the first episode, plus his pre-show TC, and when he was alone on EI. I do like that it shows his spirituality, but otherwise his edit has been very one-dimensional, if not a tad bit stereotypical. I was not thrilled to see Misty’s plan regarding “pretending she had found the idol” recapped. IMHO this must be an obvious thought to an exiled player. Bruce did not receive a similar confession. In her pre-show TC she confessed that she “must hide her intelligence” from the rest of the players. This just may be a situation of a player being too smart for their own good. Otherwise I though she had a nice edit this episode. She received a good amount of positive face time. She is by far my favorite character this season. This does not bode well for her. On to Other Thoughts The location as a character appeared to emerge this episode. Both of the older and younger men’s reactions to the storm were emphasized strongly. In the two seasons we have been in Panama the elements were never a primary theme. Even last season, after the initial hike, the location was never stressed to this point. And trust me, I was in Guatemala while they were filming last season and it was miserable. In does tend to tie into the in hostile environment of EI. The pick-um was fun, as always and VS has done an incredible job with her analysis. I agree that Aras’s pick of Cerie and Terry’s pick of Sally were very interesting. Casaya I don’t have much to add here beyond what has been said. This episode was dominated by Shane and to an extent, Cerie. MB has a great deal investing in these two characters. I agree with Michael that we are in LaMina this week. We have been presented with two conflicting alliances early, and of course, in is unlikely that either will succeed. VS, I strongly agree with you take on Terry and Sally. This will be important. While RM’s edit has been non-existent and she may take the heat in the short run, I am more concerned about Nick and Misty. Should the men’s alliance fail, he is the one most out of the loop, and the same can be said for Misty. Sally and Austin appear to have the stronger inroads, and better edits, into their core alliances. And finally I am curious to see how the EI selections pan out. I find it difficult to believe that the choice will belong to the tribe who has the evictee; they usually have enough trouble booting one member, much less exiling them. Michael, VS, keep up the good work.   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-14-06, 03:00 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Episode Two" LAST EDITED ON 02-15-06 AT 11:07 AM (EST) Rosie, I too am attempting to remain true to this thread. I've been rather busy & VS is so very thorough, I'm at a loss as to what else to add. I think the TC cave is awesome! I also love the EI twist! We're meant to view EI as "evil". However, one "good" part about being exiled (apart from finding the HI) is although you are kept out of the loop, you also can't contribute to any drama back at camp, which might result in others' heads on the chopping block. It will be interesting to see what happens on EI in the weeks to come. I agree EP2 was totally centered around Shane & that Bruce's stay on EI was barely featured at all. The only possible strategy quote from Bruce was "..focus, get my mind ready for battle." It isn't a stretch to assume Bruce will end up in a battle against Shane. It's also reasonable to speculate that Bruce would lose a battle with Shane, but who knows, maybe Bruce will win a different battle, but not the war so to speak. I don't have a good feeling about Misty's edit. We were meant to view Sally as vulnerable bc she lost the spear. In my mind's eye, I could see Rupert wailing & thrashing about in the water ! I do think Sally will be an impact player, but we're being manipulated, through editing, to believe Misty will fill that role. I can't help but root for Cirie. And although I can't stand watching Danielle in her preshow video, she seems less cold than I imagined & something (hmmm...let's see... could it be editing?) has endeared her to me. I do hope we see a lot less of Shane this week, it could be hazardous to our health, LOL VS !!   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-14-06, 05:30 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Episode Two" Since Survivor is a numbers game, it's good to have company! Rosie you made me realize I had neglected the spiritual aspect of the martial arts only focusing on the active aspect. Bruce's meditations could very well be a way to bond with Aras! Surviette, your Rupert comparison makes me wonder a little more on Misty's result. Maybe she does have an impact but in the short term only. Call it a brief affair! As VS pointed out, Bruce and Shane's stories will intertwine but the dynamics have changed. In La Mina, Shane was the outsider who put a target on Bruce in case of a TC. Now, Bruce will need Shane at least in the short term to connect with the tribe. That is another source of power for Shane. Speaking of which, Shane's demeanor in the previews made me think of a theatre actor. He seems too affected, his movements too studied. So what role would he be playing? I thought of Volpone. Call me crazy!   Top

CutsyTootsy 1795 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 02-14-06, 06:55 PM (EST) 33. "Nothing to add except thanks!" I have nothing to add- I just wanted you all to know I appreciate all you do to bring spoilers to us! Tribe Has Spoken   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-15-06, 08:04 AM (EST) 34. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" Cutsy Tootsy I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone who participates here that your words are very kind and everyone has something to add so do not hesitate to jump right in. Viewing Survivor is something that elicits different observations and no observation is irrelevant Surviette and WLR I'm glad you posted your thoughts and from what I'm reading there appears to be a lot of information coming our way this season which I'm glad that you both and michel eluded to. Unfortunately this is preventing me from going to the SOTS threads and the voting thread as I really do not want anything to influence what I am observing and I thank you for making me aware of this. What you OBSERVE is important regardless of anything else so please continue to do so regardless of what you read elsewhere. LaMina's tribe (and Shane from Casaya) are heavily featured this week so if, indeed, we see LaMina visit TC, this is THEIR first boot and again, typically speaking (and reiterating from Casaya's TC that had occurred) initial reasons for any first boot would be the "older" or "sick" person, the antisocial or "different" person, the "bossy" person (this person may be saved if they are providing something the tribe desperately needs )or the one viewed as acting like an overt leader (again, a leader will not usually go r if they are seriously providing something that the tribe desperately needs) We saw a lot of alliance discussions last week with LaMina which is almost a novelty this soon; I can only surmise right now the boot (if other than Ruth Marie) may cause some serious discord as Austin foreshadowed that "someone will get hurt" My only hope for Casaya and the viewers is that Shane starts to overcome his withdrawal symptoms; that alone is giving Shane extreme amounts of face time since we are virtually living with his "coming off" of his vices. When that starts to settle down it may assist in kickstarting others who were not quite as visible.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-15-06, 12:40 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" I always need a good couple of weeks to be able to say anything remotely intelligent...I am formulating ideas and thinking re Nash theory too... Right now the characters are def. Shane and Cirie. I see Cirie not as "useless" as Lydia but she is def. the one that continues to be on the chopping block early like Lydia from last season..she reminds me of Sandra her personality an I think right now anyway Courtney will be the narrator for Casaya...and Austin, the narrator for La Mina, whether he goes farther than that...I think he has a better chance than Nick, but I am concerned also about him being in the "middle"   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 02-15-06, 01:13 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" "Right now the characters are def. Shane and Cirie. " I have been trying to formulate some thoughts about last weeks show and I can come up with absolutely nothing original since you guys are so thorough. But this statement that emy makes is one that I find interesting, because it really seems that these two (and perhaps Aras?) are the only characters that we have seen any real definition to so far. Obviously with only a couple of episodes down, it is tough to build up a great deal of background to any number of people, but Shane and Cirie have had way more face time (it would seem to me anyway) than anyone else. Not sure what that means in terms of the long term or how that editing plays out, but it is intriguing to me. Anyway, great job VS, Michel, Rosie, Survivette, emy. As always, best thread of the week.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-15-06, 02:35 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" I doubt that I can find the exact source since it was a season or two ago, but Jeff Probst said in at least one interview that he has been given more of a hand in the editing as the installments continue (he's more involved in it than MB is now, he implied). Jeff talked up Shane and Cirie a lot before the premiere and said he thinks this season will provide two of the most popular characters ever; it's pretty clear he was very taken with these two. So if he has a big say in the editing we are probably going to see a great deal of Shane and Cirie consistently throughout the show. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

architecturegirl 227 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 02-15-06, 02:54 PM (EST) 38. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" BR, I seem to remember that comment in an interview as well... I dont recall exactly what he said about Cerie and Shane, but I find it odd that he would call Shane one of the most popular players ever. Sure, one of the best characters ever, but we'd have to see a big turnaround in Shane for him to become highly popular. The average viewer is much less critical than we are, and they all loved Tom from Palau, so perhaps he is referring to Terry? Like I said though, I dont specifically remember what he said in the comments you're referring to.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-15-06, 03:17 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" Well he didn't name the two "popular" contestants in that sentence, but when asked about who were standouts in the cast he named Shane and Cirie first, and has gone on and on about them, so I'm pretty sure he means them. He did compare Terry to Tom Westman, but his excitement level over Terry didn't seem as great. JP probably was thinking that Shane is great TV, but it's also possible Shane changes over the course of the show (remember Kathy O'Brien: no one could stand her for the first few episodes but by the end everyone loved her). Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-15-06, 04:39 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Nothing to add except thanks!" He said that one of his all time favorite survivors was Cirie. He said with Shane, "we hit a homerun!"..."we never knew what was going to come out of his mouth"... Indeed, Jiffy did comment on getting more productive and editing control of the show, and I agree, these two are end game players. Now, as for the dynamics within the two tribes... Casaya: Shane broke the ice right off the bat to orchestrate the dominant alliance of four....he sure did test that alliance as well, and so far, his alliance mates rose to the occasion. To me, the fact that they didn't falter or waiver at all tells me that this four could indeed out last Bobby Dawg, Cirie, and Bruce....time will tell. This doesn't take into account however any unforeseen tribe mix ups down the road...so I'll say that they are the four most likely players to survive at least until the next swap. *One thing to note though is that alliances revealed do not succeed. Therefore, somewhere in the future of this series, I think someone in this alliance or more, may fracture and latch on to another group. La Mina: So, alot has been revealed to us at the La Mina camp. We have Terry and Dan with an early alliance, then Terry/Dan/Austin/Nick with an alliance, and then Sally/Misty/Austin/Nick with an alliance, ?psuedo alliance. Either something has to give with one of them, OR Ruth Marie is toast at the next TC. I am in agreement that the cbs Misdirection clues point to one tribe winning RC and the other winning IC. At this point, I'm inclined to believe that it will be Casaya eating snake, which leads to an IC win. Ruth Marie has been there but not highly visible. She was the one to not lose the first RC, and then she was also given a few confessionals in ep 1 regarding the tribe at Casaya. In ep 2 she was almost invisible, hidden so to speak. I think Corvis had her listed with 0 confessionals. Then there is Dan, who seemed to bond well with Terry and the older guys at the original La Mina, seen working and sharing the load, didn't seem inept at challenges, and formed an early bond with Terry. In ep 2 we had him validate his game this far with one confessional. Then there was Sally with her losing the sling, but what struck me more with her was that she was the one to instigate the alliance with Austin and Nick....she's a gamer, playing the game and shown strategizing...to me that was a positive, in that I think those that are shown strategizing are more likely to last a bit. Then we have Misty. She was given her due in the first ep as the first exilee. But what we saw was her talking about just trying to find the II and then what she would tell her tribe when she returned....I thought she carried that off well. Then in ep 2, once again she's invisible, with no confessionals that I can recall. Hidden, yet in the previews we prominently see her rubbing Nick's neck and talking strategy....hmmm. Does this mean that since she's going to have a strategy in ep 3 that she could last longer....as in beyond ep 3....we know that since she's revealing it, now we can see it fail/not succeed? As for Nick, he really hasn't had much to say either, imo. He commented on Sally's proposal, but I got the impression that Austin was more of the "mouthpiece" for the young guys at new Casaya. I just don't know where they are going with Nick. Terry is definately a paternal, calm presence in the group, a natural leader type, but will be a strong physical presence as well. I feel the conflict that is building will be at La Mina, and one of the alliances revealed will be broken. Alot depends on where Ruth Marie will fall, will she gravitate for the strong, wiser, older men, or will she towards the other women in the tribe.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-16-06, 09:09 AM (EST) 41. "Discussion" Well I am very happy to see you wonderful people posting This is a great season with such diversity in the mix; it probably is not surprising that most of them jumped in ready to start the game in earnest. I see that all the alliance discussion has a lot of people pondering, myself included and this is probably a good episode to flesh out LaMina more since it seems that a portion of the show is featuring "the women" at LaMina having a "plan" (I'm not fond of the feminine wile plan, there are often cases on this show when the woman who comes on too strong fails miserably ) It will be interesting to see how Bobby and Ruth Marie do with regard to elevated television time and if neither of them leave, an increase of visibility should be noted however this also depends on what context they are shown which is what all of you are going to watch for Editing this season will be very different as we all have been discussing the Exiled person and in what capacity they are shown. As I had said earlier and FP glad you are also questioning this, Misty's exile, seemed to be (on the surface) rather generic and what I would expect from someone who does not go deep into this game and again, it is virtually impossible to compare Bruce's stay with Misty's in light of the fact that Bruce knew he would be safe so I did not expect Bruce to state that he was worried about TC but I did not like the fact Bruce did not discuss his thoughts on entering a new tribe either. For the short time being, these two that were exiled do not strike a chord of longevity to me but Bruce and Shane appeared to have somewhat of a story building; I haven't seen that with Misty other then her future as a femme fatale which could very well fail And yes, typcially the ones who speak about the situation are normally those who are played out longer which is why it "feels" that Terry, Austin and Sally may have more to be invested over Nick, Misty and Dan (each of the first three were actively involved in the strategy with Terry doing the approaching as opposed to Dan, Austin being approached by both Sally and Terry whereas Nick was there only with Terry and Sally initiating the strategy as opposed to Misty) Naturally we all commented on Ruth Marie's complete absence which we have established over time that this is not entirely a death sentence as long as there is some progression. I may need to quickly view one point of last week's episode where Austin spoke about the tug of war he and Nick were involved in and that someone is going to get hurt and compare it to tonight's episode as it may have been a confessional that actually takes place with respect to THIS episode. This may be a key episode in reflecting how the editing will fare with respect to all the deals that have been made. Since I already made mention after the first episode of potential story lines that appeared to be set up for some point in the future, those who did not figure into any of them are the ones I do not see at the end game. Bruce may be a very big subject at Casaya with his arrival and it will be interesting to see how the people are handled (editing wise) with the aftermath of their TC.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-17-06, 09:14 AM (EST) 42. "Post Ep 3" LAST EDITED ON 02-17-06 AT 02:59 PM (EST) Well, thought I'd jump in here with both feet first! I want to thank everyone here as I really feel like the editing is what led me to my vote as Misty for the bootee over Dan...for once I held strong and did not succomb to the "pressure", and low and behold! Anyway, a Misty boot to me was the most logical choice. As we expected we were shown alot more of the dynamics over at La Mina. It really cemented alot for me. I really like Terry and his game. He's an honorable man and leader. He noted in confessional that indeed it was his intention to get them "all" to the merge. It's part of the game however, and you move on. He's not making the game personal, which as we all know, is a great thing. He's a very able man, and seems to be emerging as the real leader of the tribe. One of the men/women in the tribe did however comment on his physical prowess that would be hard to beat....I think that was Misty....foreshadowing of things to come, no doubt. Did you all notice when the 4 guys were discussing who to boot that Terry opened the question to the group, delegating perhaps the decision to them and then supporting it....Austin was the one to call out Misty as having choked in the IC. They seem to consider what's best for the group. I think they are all playing the best game possible for now....let's see how things change when they are starving and getting weaker and weaker. Dan seems to be very respected by his tribe and I think well liked by them, this probably saved him last night. I loved how he had his hands on RM's and Misty's shoulders as the votes were read. He's the grandfather of the group, very paternal, imo. His name came up when the girls and the young guys were discussing boot options, but was quickly dismissed. This ep also revealed to me that indeed Austin and Nick are tight, Austin commented on this. We did not see them discussing anything alone regarding which way they would vote, but I tend to think they are holding tight with the men.....Austin called out Misty as the weakest in the challenges. I really like Austin, he seems very upbeat and aware and very sensitive to the others in his tribe. He kept his word to the first alliance that he made, he's honorable....I have a feeling his honor though will come into play down the road again...will it lead to his demise...I wonder if this is his story in this show. Nick still seems to be there but not really showing me much. Commented on the puffer fish. His face was shown smashed at the bottom of the pile during the IC...I wonder if this is how he'll leave the show, smashed at the bottom of the pile. Definately see Austin as more of a player than Nick. Sally, seems she bonded with Misty, and is shown hoping that things work out. Seems the events in the show are setting her up to "prove" her worthiness to her tribe.....I think she'll do it, one way or the other. As she had "attached" to Misty, will she "attach" to one of the others now? She seems as more of an under the radar player, coat tail rider that picked the wrong coat tails to ride, but will she have a chance to find a new and more improved one to hide behind or NO??? She is valuable in that she's a "number". The LaMina's are shaping up in to a tribe with one leader, and that could spell success...they do seem to be heading toward more unification to me. Over on Casaya it seems as things are going from bad to worse. Shane is explosive now and his bad karma vibes are really affecting the positive energy in that tribe.(Ha ! Shane seems to be targeting Courtney and Courtney can't hack it. Cirie is probably sitting back and enjoying the show. Aras and Danielle seem at this point to be the more "normal" ones of the group. Aras to me is the positive one there, as he is sitting back away from the conflict, not getting into it. Then at the IC he was shown to be enjoying his tribes performance. Then at the end of the challenge he grabbed and hugged Danielle. These 2 will be the crux of the 4 person alliance, imo. Bruce comes in and was very well received by the group who looked to him for everything, water then fire. He was crowned leader in a leaderless tribe perhaps? He got them up and running and I think that secures his life in the tribe for a while. He was heard directing his tribemates throughout the IC and did well himself. I see Courtney and Cirie gravitating toward him, Courtney for protection from Shane, and Cirie for perhaps forming an alliance with someone else on the outside. Again, this spells real conflict between Shane and Bruce down the road, imo. Shane is so in "mid-detox" that he's so self absorbed right now. I suspect as his withdrawel symptoms start to dwindle that he'll emerge as a real alpha too and go head to head with Bruce....we'll see. Bobby performed well in the challenge, but all in all I do not get much from him. I do think that he and Cirie are tight. Doesn't strike me as a leader at all. I saved RM for last. Ruth Marie was shown in this episode as not faring well at all....at one point she was standing and trying to walk and looked as though she was dizzy and really struggling. She was considered by both tribal factions as the boot and chosen as the best choice by the younger girls/younger boys. She is seen in the preview vidcaps in regard to starving...if editing ever pointed to a more clear boot candidate, I just don't know! BUT, is this our old friend, misdirection??? Lots of animal symbolism in this ep and I didn't really pay attention to the music, boy I sure miss AJ! Can't wait to hear what more astute observers got!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-18-06, 09:53 AM (EST) 43. "RE: Post Ep 3" Fun episode the other night and was glad to see that Bobby and Ruth Marie began their progression of face time (which can be to their detriment) and Bruce's arrival increased the dynamics of Casaya. We can now mark down yet another victim of the "femme fatale" strategy The Recap Not surprisingly, Shane was shown and naturally "unraveled" Thereafter, we saw the breakdown of the four tribes into two The RC was shown with "Nick helped carry LaMina to victory" Shane wasting no time in his alliance of four Danielle shown communicating her thoughts on this LaMina showed Austin and Nick "torn" between the two groups and Sally lost the spear Bruce briefly shown at Exile Island and he "toughed it out" The IC was shown as "Terry led LaMina to victory" Shane's declaration prior to TC was shown and that Aras changed his mind Bruce returned at TC and Melinda was booted. Of note (for that back burner that is increasingly becoming crowded... both Nick and Terry highlighted for the victory, Aras is given a nod for changing Shane's mind and Danielle was given a confessional talk regarding communication and Austin is the one noted to discuss the alliance situation) TC Aftermath at Casaya Frankly, I am thrilled that Bruce arrived back with the rest of Casaya or else we may not have ever met Bobby! Bobby started us off with his narration of Bruce's integration into the tribe Bobby (conf) "Bruce gets right down to business" Bruce is now emerging somewhat as a contestant on the show instead of being delegated to some grunts and groans and images on his own little tribe. What I found interesting about Bruce is his very high opinion of himself which in other people, may be taken negatively. With Bruce, it actually was strangely charming and acceptable in my eyes (I expand on this later and as I normally do, write a novel ) Bruce "You just got the most important person of everyone" We then hear from Shane: Shane (conf) "Bruce is incredibly neurotic; of course it grates on my nerves, I just want him to shut up; but I gotta just let him do this thing" (Interestingly enough though Shane appears almost submissive to Bruce in a short exchange between these two and this is the only negativity about Bruce we hear from Shane and later he is as much distressed over Bruce being exiled. I'm sure everyone else chuckled hearing Shane calling Bruce neurotic) We also hear from Aras: Aras "We just went for it" (Accepting Bruce's way, taking away any negativity) Inserted here is the tribe discussing the water filtering and only Courtny is shown somewhat miffed about Bruce's methods; it came off as sounding a bit petty especially since right thereafter Bobby "We are a lot more powerful with him" (Obviously this is always setting up nicely the events that occur at the RC) What I was actually most fascinated by was this extremely brief exchange: Bruce "Shane, I watch out for you, right?" Shane "Yes, Bruce" Why so fascinating? Shane showing actually restraint and an element of submissiveness to someone? This is not Shane. Shane would explode at that statement but Shane is aware that Bruce is valuable and necessary and he manages to restrain himself; we have not seen much of that with Shane. I will also say in viewing the episodes thus far, Shane is an insecure man who may have had major issues with women in his life; all his explosions or derisive commentary are with women. He holds back with men Bruce (conf) "The tribe reacted with great joy like I was a gift from heaven. I was the last man picked and now I am emerging as top of the tribe" (Again, this kind of comment from someone else would have elicited negative response but somehow was acceptable coming from Bruce. We will see the foreshadowing potential of his commentary I am sure. Bruce is (by his own accounts) and viewed by his tribe and LaMina as a savior of a very dislocated tribe. Can Bruce do what he is being edited as?) Long analysis on these events..... What I find so fascinating about Bruce's entry, his own positive thoughts about himself and the way it was edited was that in ANOTHER person, Bruce could have come off extremely arrogant and negative. This was designed to portray Bruce in a positive way which, of course, bodes well for him. Imagine if you will, Bruce making that comment to the tribe and Cerie, Aras and Bobby confessing he is a jerk; THAT is editing. Our thoughts would immediately follow suit. Instead, Bobby emotes positive, Cerie never says anything negative (and Cerie is a big narrator) and we see her visibly upset with Bruce leaves them, Danielle enthuses over Bruce and even the other tribe feels badly about Bruce being exiled. Only TWO PEOPLE showed negativity towards Bruce; Shane and Courtney and Shane is not someone we are meant to agree with and Courtney (although not reaching the heights of Shane) came off to seem somewhat annoyed that others were readily accepting Bruce's ideas (notice how she states SHE knows a lot about the water situation) Easily, this whole situation could have been edited for the audience to dislike BruceThe Skies Are Cloudy at LaMina When LaMina was introduced this episode, the skies were cloudy and shown was a very slow moving, sluggish creature. The music (and this is obviously not on aj's level of expertise) was very appropriate of the mood; it was somewhat dejected and melancholy sounding which led us to the food issue (and Ruth Marie waking up with visibility) Ruth Marie is shown confessing to the status of lack of food with Nick then chiming in with his thoughts... Nick (conf) "We are slowly going downhill.... .....if we can catch fish, it's a whole new ball game but our knowledge is minimal...." Interesting contrast to Casaya. Bruce arrives in the dark, the savior to bring Casaya out of their darkness with his arrival, where LaMina is shown immediately after with imagery and music of a sluggish, melancholy and slowly dying tribe. It was very clear in watching and I was happy to see that the previews for next week seem to reinforce this with LaMina The Spear That Won’t Die This is a subject in it of itself. Now losing a spear in that setting is a big deal BUT what editing is about is whether it is being made into a whole subject itself. Recall Thailand when the net was lost? Recall Thailand when the boat was lost? Two extremely important items were lost there and my recollection was that the disappointment by the tribes was only confined to that episode AND not even the entire episode. This “spear incident” is being put to us in a bigger context and what is interesting is how Sally’s role with it is being slipped in but as an undercurrent. First we hear: Austin “Damn spear Sally lost.... How did you lose that spear?” (Mind you, Austin’s confessional was not a rant. Like Austin’s personality, it was kept in an upbeat way but a point was made without it sounding too horrifically critical of Sally) The spear incident is being felt by the audience also by the lack of fish caught as well which we saw in an entire scene. Interesting contrast that Sally (and Nick) go out to fish, Sally loses spear. Nick and Austin on Thursday go out to fish, come up empty and Terry is shown practically catching a fish by hand and how positively received was that! Austin “Terry, the sole provider of the tribe comes up with Nemo... (yet he goes on to say how excited they were about it) Sally “It felt like a lot of meat.... couple more would be unbelievable” I had mentioned in the first episode there was a feel to Sally and Terry something brewing and that undercurrent still felt there. Reward Challenge The main point of this was Bruce being taken away from a tribe coming out of its darkness. This scene at the challenge as already stated helped to confirm everything Bruce claimed to be. Again, some people may have heard Bruce and felt he was an arrogant buffoon. I do think that all the items I mentioned previously help to negate that so the audience would accept his over the top comments about himself. We are meant to like Bruce and even more so after seeing him again at Exile Island BUT Bruce’s character is a straight arrow; there is no building for any complexity within the context of the GAME. Example Bruce (confessional) “I made sure to show them all the things I know to provide for them. They will see that they need me very badly as a provider and keep me around” You say..... but Bruce never said that!! I say, you are right; he did not and if he was at end game, he probably would have been shown saying that. That is a key difference in how end game players are edited. His edit is present but it is flat with regard to himself. We are more or less seeing how Bruce's presence is affecting the other people Back to the Reward Challenge.... Bobby “He (Bruce) has an upbeat attitude, can’t help but feel better around him, he is willing to take the lead on everything” Danielle “We feel a hell of a lot better.....Bruce is our savior” During the RC, what was noted was the apparent closeness of Cerie and Bobby and there was also a definite competitive buddy aura with Nick and Terry Austin takes the lead in directing LaMina on who should be exiled. Austin has been a very visible presence thus far. He has been the voice of himself and Nick and a pretty consistent narrator for his tribe as well. Austin “Bruce is the leader, they referred to him as leader; they’d probably be done if we send Bruce. They’re crumbling without Bruce” (to his tribe) I am sure we all saw Dan’s expression. He was unhappy this was happening. Let’s not forget he was with Bruce for a couple of days and to send Bruce back there would no doubt upset him as he is being shown as a very nurturing paternal figure and this helps to reinforce that unfortunately this was a necessary evil Austin “They made a very detrimental move by telling us who brought back the team moral and Bruce.....we are sending you back” Shane “These guys are playing for keeps huh?” We then see Cerie putting her arm around Bruce and the challenge ends with Dan holding the LaMina flag with his back to us. The aura was overwhelmingly prevalent about the providing of the respective tribes. Bruce stepped in to save Casaya and Terry is LaMina’s only hope of providing. With a group like Casaya, and LaMina’s previews, I think payback has been ordered Strategy Sessions Called To Order Terry always gives us nice compact direction oriented confessionals which bodes well for him. They balance out the tribe situations and game purposes so his longevity at this point is fairly positive. He advises us that their reward has made him “very stoked for MY team” (Subtle use of words, Terry is the appointed leader, he acknowledges it and it is HIS team) Thereafter, a brief scene at night with the rain after the tarp was put into place as directed by Dan with Dan reminding them “to think about Bruce for a minute” Here again, Terry speaks of the decision to send Bruce to EI even though Dan was the one to mention to everyone not to forget Bruce. This is the difference I mentioned in a previous post. Terry is given more over Dan, Austin is given more over Nick and Sally was given more over Misty; therefore, it appears that Terry, Austin and Sally “should” go further in this game than the other three Terry (conf) “He’s an asset to that team and without him we think they won’t be upon their feet as they should be - we made a tough call, wouldn’t want to be him” (I would like to find out later how this decision on Bruce was truly arrived. One would think Austin would give this confessional in light of the fact that HE appeared to be the one to instigate and direct his tribe to send Bruce to EI yet Terry is telling us about it. It would be interesting to see if Terry was as involved as Austin appeared to be. If he was, the editing may want to make Terry out a little more positive than Austin since exiling Bruce may be viewed as an unkind act) The Exiled Again we see Bruce at a familiar place and he lets us know about this: Bruce “I’ve spent more time on the island than with any tribe.... every night is miserable here....” (He lets us know he wasn’t able to look for the idol) I do think Bruce is being brought out to be a very likeable man and the audience can’t help but feel bad for him which is reinforced by not only his tribe but the other tribe as well. Regardless of his pompous commentary, he comes from EI, smiling and upbeat and very disarming. The problem with Bruce’s persona is that I have yet to feel like he is playing the game. His story is very one dimensional Courtney (conf) “One of the most evil things I’ve seen people do; to lose and losing Bruce... all a downer” Courtney and Shane The “Shane’s Thinking Seat” scenario and the confrontation with the work activities is mainly to establish thediscord between these two. This four person alliance obviously has already cracked and Aras chimes in with his observations: Aras (conf) “The problem is inherent in our personalities; I’m in an alliance with three nutballs” What I found interesting in this confessional was that he mentions Danielle as a “nutball” when the scene focused entirely on Courtney and Shane with Danielle trying to calm Courtney down so Danielle is apparently being downplayed in her edit for some unknown reason. Aras was conveniently in the background and didn’t attempt to calm the situation down which is curious since he inserted himself readily the week before in getting Shane to stay and opening his mouth about the alliance Cerie (conf) “With Courtney and Shane, it is always something. The funny thing is that these guys are the people you decided to align with and now you hate each other. How stupid is that??” (Cerie has certainly been a good narrator since she arrived on the island. We didn’t hear from Bobby about the situation which doesn’t bode to well for him again even though his visibility did increase from the prior episode. We are definitely meant to embrace Cerie. We are supposed to sit with her and laugh at her ridiculous tribe while they implode in front of her) Courtney (conf) “Shane needs to get his angst out on something or someone and he’s chosen me” Shane (conf) “Courtney is a lunatic and I’m trapped with her because I made a commitment on my son’s life; I just don’t know how to get right with her” Tension obviously mounting with these two delegating the other players to background right now. Again, how interesting that Shane, of all people, would call someone a lunatic. We are not meant to agree with Shane about Courtney but in the same token, Courtney herself doesn’t come across as completely sympathetic. I don’t find her character to be clearly positive but I do find her character to be fleshed out enough for a decent stay in the game. It appears that with this four person alliance, something is going to cause it to dissolve as we know happens when alliances are revealed this way. It appears that it may come down to the decision of sending of these two home before someone outside of their alliance. Of course we all raised an eyebrow of the “son’s life” statement again as we are reminded of Twilla and her promise as well. How this happens remains to be seen but it appears that this story will end with one of these two going before it is meant to happen and the “betrayal” boot will result which obviously would mean these two are not end game players The Femme Fatale Fails Again I had mentioned before in seeing Misty’s ploys that more often than not, the “femme fatale” strategy rarely works (and it didn’t ) and the Misty and Sally female strategy scene was obviously put there to foreshadow the later events with of course, Dan and Terry both shown watching with Austin then narrating: Austin (conf) “I’m in a position I don’t necessarily want to be in. I am the one everyone comes to and says hey we trust you, we need you on our side. It could be construed as very dangerous to align with the strong guys” (This confessional was purely shown to create some doubt about the upcoming tribal council. Again though, Austin is shown discussing the matter, not Nick. Austin is clearly the mouthpiece for these two which like Terry being for Dan, reflects better for Austin’s longevity than Nick’s. Note also that I do think the prior episode with Austin’s confessional about being in a tug of war was edited from this episode) Sally(conf)“My goal is to keeping working on Austin. Terry is a power player with a huge mark on his back; it might be wise for them to align with us; they are gonna need us. We’ll see what happens” (Again, Sally is the mouthpiece here, not Misty which again suggested Sally would outlast Misty which she has. Sally has been a very present figure. She has been the biggest narrator of the females in the “boys club tribe” and the undercurrent of her losing the spear is just noticeable enough, along with that relationship with Terry to suggest she may be there for a bit. Potential foreshadowing regarding Terry?) The Immunity Challenge Amidst the free for all, I did note again the correlation with Terry and Nick, Cerie really coming through during this challenge, Bobby naturally securing the win as well and Aras’ yoga maneuver Again, one has to ask why something is shown. Remember Courtney and Aras’ wink? Not necessary but shown. Aras’ yoga move didn’t HAVE to be shown but it was AND it was remarked on by Jeff. This was solely meant to be remembered by the audience. The question is why? Aras has had a few manipulated moments so far and interestingly enough, for someone who appeared to make a ridiculous move the week prior with the alliance and boot discussion, he now appears one of the normal ones on his tribe. Aras is shown enough to suggest he is there for a bit and despite that his personal could be edited as a “character” (with his yoga maneuvers which in episode one could have been made to look overly ridiculous) but he isn’t which actually bodes well for him Tribal Council Strategy Sally (to the tribe) “Losing feels terrible; gave it everything we had; they had more weight than we do” Terry(conf)“My goal is to bring this tribe intact for the merge and now we have a tough decision.... game moves on.... always tomorrow (We will learn if his goal is brought to fruition) We then see Dan, Austin, Nick and Terry discussing the vote. Hopefully we will find out later, but it “appeared” that Ruth Marie was brought up by Dan with Austin interjecting about Misty. We probably were not privy to the beginning of the conversation and quite honestly I suggest that Dan brought up Misty but Austin may have mentioned Ruth Marie with Dan then saying.... Dan “Ruth Marie does make the most sense from a whole team point of view; she is the most physically weak” (As suggested, it sounds more like Dan is responding to someone else bringing up Ruth Marie as a candidate) Austin “As much as I love Misty, today in the challenge....” (Again, it appears that someone-probably Terry brought up Misty first and then Austin perhaps mentioned Ruth with Dan responding above since the way Misty’s name came up seemed a bit chopped up) Dan “That’s right” (With the way that Misty’s name just seemed inserted, Dan’s saying “that’s right” again reinforces that Misty was probably brought up first by Terry and Dan) Terry(conf) “WE got to THEM quickly and came up with who we were going to have to vote off. Misty is smart as hell, could cause some trouble” (Again, Terry and Dan approached Austin and Nick with Misty, Austin probably mentions Ruth Marie to which Dan is agreeing but solidifies with Terry that Misty is a better choice. Note again that Terry, not Dan, is narrating events) We then see Sally, Nick and Misty talking Sally (to them) “Ruth Marie or Dan... Dan is so brilliant.... could you vote for Ruth Marie?” Nick”Yeah” The conversation revolves around how highly regarded Dan is with Sally then telling the audience that “it is most advantageous for the tribe and myself to vote Ruth Marie” Again, Sally is doing all the speaking for her pair, Terry for his pair and Austin for his pair. In the editing, this typically would signify that these three will do better in the game as there has been absolutely no balance in the confessionals. Terry, Sally and Austin are LITERALLY speaking for their counterpart and as we already saw, Misty is gone from her pair A nice gesture by Terry is then shown telling Ruth Marie “good try” Austin (conf) “My two options personally and when I say personally, I’m linked to Nick (So why don’t we hear from Nick? Austin literally is speaking for both of them which, if Nick, was long term, we certainly would hear his take on everything) we can go with Sally and Misty or Dan and Terry. I have the makings right now to get all the way to where I want to be in this game because of the way I am aligned” (As of now, Terry, Austin and Sally should do rather well in this game. Austin is a key narrator and showing strategy discussion and comments on the state of the tribe’s condition which bode well for him thus far. These three appear to be the best candidates from this tribe) Tribal Council It is nice to hear from everyone at Tribal Council. There is also no question that this tribe has a huge contrast to Casaya. These people genuinely like and respect one another. They have attempted to remain upbeat and positive. Casaya, on the other hand, is full of friction, personality conflicts and just a whole slew of issues that probably lie deeper than the game. It will be interesting to see if this season is edited where the ultimate victor comes not from the cohesive tribe but the conflicted tribe in opposition to last season. Terry speaks about “being ready for what comes down the road” Dan speaks about “companionship” Sally speaks about “caring for these people” Misty speaks about “pressure to play as well as the men” Ruth Marie speaks about “being the odd man out” Nick speaks about “basing his vote on the group” Austin speaks about ”The X factor Terry caught fish.... there was a little incident with the spears, let’s leave it at that” Do any of us REALLY believe that Jeff would “leave it at that?” We obviously were not privy to further discussion and I’m sure Sally’s role in losing the spear was discussed. Just as what is important that is left IN the editing is what is left OUT of the editing. For whatever reason, Sally’s “spear mishap” is being downplayed but the undercurrent is there. This actually favors Sally’s longevity. We are not meant to forget she did it (and someone else may have gotten voted out because of it!) but we are not meant to think point blank negative towards Sally. The mood of the tribe sends a message to the audience. The message is if her own tribe is being even keeled about it, the audience should be as well. While the votes are read, Dan puts a paternal hand on both Misty and Ruth’s shoulders, Dan is very likeable if not a little bland There was some incredible background music (to which aj is much better suited to discuss ) when Misty was asked about the idol. Misty replies she does not have it and Ruth Marie is shown dramatically closing her eyes in relief. Jeff”Based on tonight, it seems like you are unified but as the vote showed, even in the tightest of groups someone is on outside” (As always, I like putting Jeff’s comments down as they reflect the mood of the situation and may be integral to upcoming events. His comments last season were extremely relevant as we noted each episode) FP, as I said to michel, if I repeated anything you stated, my apologies as I write out my thoughts prior to any postings. If I did repeat anything, then obviously we are in complete agreement and I am very glad the editing helped you in making your decision I do not have to tell you that I am the firmest of believers that the editing truly can help arrive at the long term players and those who are not relevant to the story. This has been a very complex season in light of the twists/turns being thrown at the contestants. At this point, I can only suggest that Terry, Austin and Sally merit a better look in terms of winning over Dan, Nick and Ruth Marie and at Casaya, Cerie is clearly a long term character and Shane is arguably a “character” who will not win this game but may be here for quite some time. While Bobby did indeed get more television “due” I have yet to hear anything substantive from him. He was VULNERABLE and yet not a word. He is in the middle of a train wreck and we hear nothing. What we hear is positive commentary about Bruce which actually bodes better for Bruce than Bobby. Aras and Danielle need to be fleshed out more to satisfy me as longer term. Bruce is a great “character” but appears too one dimensional to be and end game player. Courtney bodes well for longevity as well since the first episode but it may be more about a story within the story and once that story ends, so will she. Again, the issue of the idol and any upcoming swaps may throw a different “edit” into play as well but at this time, those I mention above seem to have the most promise. As far as who gets booted, I've always said I look at long term players so my two cents does not really help. However, the state of LaMina IS dwindling and if they were to go to Tribal Council, I do think Ruth Marie is the best candidate to leave My reasons simply are that Terry, Sally and Austin have a longer term edit which leaves Nick, Dan and Ruth Marie. Logic dictates that Nick is NECESSARY to the tribe and Dan is firmly locked with Terry (and I go back to the handshake that needs to be played out) Ruth Marie "logically" is the best choice to leave being the weakest player and lack of visibility. Visibility is tough as someone can emerge from the shadows but she was the flatest edit from her group of four women, the flates edit of this group and there is nothing that makes me raise any eyebrow on things to come. At Casaya, Bobby's edit is curiously flat considering this is a man with "dawg" in his name and the pre show commentary about him. We know nothing about how he feels about what is going on with the tribe's dynamics and there is too much down the pike with the alliance of four and Cerie's narration. Bruce is one dimensional but I would like to see him at his tribe for a full three days before making a decision about him. If we are going by character development and stories where the seeds were planted, Bobby and Ruth Marie have absolutely none. Others are in contention for short term players but they are at least somehow involved in the core dynamics   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-18-06, 11:57 AM (EST) 44. "RE: Post Ep 3" Once again VS, you have blown me away with your amazing ability to really observe and clarify all of the editing! I learn so much here in this thread, so thanks. I do realize the use of this thread in determining the edit of long lasting players vs. players that are not relevant to the story...I love figuring out who's story in the show may or may not have come full circle. Regarding Bobby's edit is curiously flat considering this is a man with "dawg" in his name and the pre show commentary about him. We know nothing about how he feels about what is going on with the tribe's dynamics and there is too much down the pike with the alliance of four and Cerie's narration. This to me is a crying shame as he did seem to have great potential as a character. We did see a glimpse of that with one initial confessional from him in ep 1 when he sized up the "Love Boat tribe, the spice girls, etc." Sure would like to hear more commentary from him, and like you I do see this as an ominous sign for him in the story of Survivor: Panama, Exile Island. One thing regarding RM is that I question if she may indeed have a tighter bond with Dan than we have been shown. We did see her come and sit down with Dan to discuss the boot. Then with your great interpretation of how the boot discussion could have gone, re. Dan and Terry could have initially brought up Misty, then Austin brought up RM, and Dan commented, then Austin returns the suggestion of Misty again.... She is definately a non-threatening player that could be used as a number, and down the road could be used to keep Austin/Nick in check. There is no doubt about the fact that the editing of the show paints the largest target on Ruth Marie's back should La Mina be headed back to TC, I just can not rule out their love of misdirection.   Top

knuckles487 178 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-18-06, 03:43 PM (EST) 45. "RE: Post Ep 3" Amidst the free for all, I did note again the correlation with Terry and Nick, Cerie really coming through during this challenge, Bobby naturally securing the win as well and Aras’ yoga maneuver Again, one has to ask why something is shown. Remember Courtney and Aras’ wink? Not necessary but shown. Aras’ yoga move didn’t HAVE to be shown but it was AND it was remarked on by Jeff. This was solely meant to be remembered by the audience. The question is why? VS, I have been wondering the same thing since they have spotlighted Aras' yoga more than once. In the first episode when his tribe put their hands in the middle for some type of ritual thing and Bobby was looking at them like they were crazy, wasn't that something to do with his yoga training? I probably would not have noticed so much if I had not seen something else on another board. Somebody mentioned this once and it drew no response but it has stuck in my head. (as do a lot of useless things) In the following picture, notice the ledgible letters, and also notice the "I" and how it purposely seems to be meant to represent a "T". Even though it is only very brief, maybe it has a purpose. Reading in a clockwise circle it says NAMASTE. I googled the word and found that it is a practice in yoga that is the "acknowledgement of one soul by another soul". In other words, a greeting. It is performed by placing the hands together, closing the eyes, and bowing the head. Could this be some type of subtle clue that has been inserted that points to the winner, or maybe a person in the game that will have some type of large impact on the outcome? Or is it nothing at all and just a strange occurance that might be getting interpretted wrong?   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-18-06, 03:54 PM (EST) 46. "RE: Post Ep 3" LAST EDITED ON 02-18-06 AT 04:07 PM (EST) Veruca : I just loved your analysis. Fp your views are very interesting and appreciated. (your comment about astute observers should’ve been singular not plural as it could only apply to VS) To add my point of view, I’ll start with Misty. Last week, I was too enthusiastic about her impact in the game. At least by airtime, Veruca’s diagnosis and other’s comments made me see more clearly! What I find interesting in her boot was that no mention at all was made about the hidden idol. Terry’s confessional could’ve included something like: “We think she doesn’t have it”, Austin could’ve added: “if she has it then we’re safe and Ruth’s gone”, Ruth herself could’ve said:”I’m worried that despite the alliance, she could be sending me home”. Since it is the THEME of the season and the boot was made perfectly to flush out the idol if she had it, I suspect it may mean the twist will be viewed negatively in the end. Something like the Outcast. The only reason we heard about her boot was that she was weaker than Ruth in challenges which doesn’t make sense. She was 3 for 3 in her throws and tackled Aras in one of her bouts. Ruth ate sand courtesy of Courtney in her first bout and despite a good run, was the mouse to Bobby’s game of cat and mouse in the end. Is CBS protecting the twist by editing out all negativity associated to it such as booting someone without real reason? Going back to the characters left, I thought the episode showed the opposition of: The CLINICAL Players vs. the EMOTIONAL Players. To start Casaya is obviously the tribe where emotions run the highest. It wasn’t surprising that the emotional team won that full-Contact challenge. To make a football analogy, the emotional team usually is the better tackling team and that certainly was Casaya (Steelers fans will certainly agree!) The ones keeping their emotions in check up to now are Aras, Danielle and Bobby. Aras is impressing me has a quiet leader. The way the boot had been presented to Melinda seemed strong handed but has Veruca mentioned, he was honestly saying what his vote was. Shane turned it into drama with his alliance talk. Aras is secure enough in the alliance to sit back and avoid trouble. He even says Bruce: “went for it” and led camp life since that is not what “Survivor leadership” is. Bruce will never decide the votes. That strategy has already saved Aras a trip to Exile Island! The shot of him running free and diving on the mat seemed meant to show he will be a player to consider in all challenges. Danielle also has been staying out of trouble (lets keep the previews for next week!). The only quote Veruca attributed to her is about how “Bruce made us feel better… is our saviour”. Is she already seeing him as a tool? We had many shots of her during challenges and camplife and she isn’t playing the “Femme Fatale” role which seems good, “n’est-ce pas Veruca?” Maybe her biggest contribution wasn’t even shown. If Bobby was left to handle a 100 pound woman alone, it means Danielle tied up Terry somehow. Again, since it was a football like challenge, a team recognizes a player who does more than expected such as a Quarter-Back throwing a block or making a game saving tackle! ( I enjoyed the Steelers victory, what can I say!). Bobby, although finally visible and despite having great potential as a character is not really progressing. He only talked about Bruce and how he helped the tribe. Will he be let go because Bruce is taking his place? Melinda’s exit interview told us Danielle wanted Bobby booted, so if that’s the case, will Aras apease her by going her way. It would keep Cirie in the game and make true the old saying that when a boot order is given, it never happens! Shane and Courtney are made for each other. Their outcome will be linked. Courtney’s negativity towards Bruce reinforces the negativity we were shown when on Bayoneta both Sally and Danielle commented on her behaviour. She was redeemed somewhat by saying sending Bruce on exile is “the most evil thing she saw people do”. I still see Shane as an actor playing with their sanity. It’s a little early to play for F2 foil! Cirie is starting to have fun and is our narrator but she needs help to be there at the end. Bruce was the star of the show but I don’t see him has ever making this “his” game. He’ll never be top 3 in any alliance, always #5 or 6. Another thing that the producers didn’t expect from their twist was sending a sympathetic 58 yr old two times in a row to exile. It will send his popularity through the roof but it will make it even more improbable for him to keep it up 39 days. I agree, his edit is too over the top and one dimensional to be a winner. In La Mina, I too noticed the ominous music, but didn’t think of the clouds. That’s another reason I love this thread. It tells me I see things but don’t observe them! Misty’s boot made us realize La Mina is also a spiritual tribe. Austin alluded to sharing talks on faith and she said they prayed for Bruce and were a tribe of good Christians. A united tribe at least in camplife. Terry is a very good leader and a good player. He is putting a target on himself and if Casaya ever chooses who goes on exile from La Mina, it will be payback time. Although he certainly has end game edit, it doesn’t seem to be his story either. I know you don’t compare edits but a comparison makes it easier to explain. In Koror, Ian and Coby were narrators but it was Tom’s story almost from day 1. It was his decisions, both in votes and on camplife, or his adventures with sharks. Terry is only about game decisions. Will he run out of options? Jeff made sure we realized he caught 4 of 5 shots in the challenge and they showed how his wrestling abilities enabled him to tie up Bobby in their first confrontation, leaving Nick against Bruce for a win. His TC comment about it being: “tough on the physical side but not yet on the mental side” could be foreshadowing he misses on a crucial decision. Austin has been increasing in every episode which certainly is a good sign. He has gone from playing baseball on the beach, to saying it’s a tug-of-war where people will be hurt to now where he decides who is leaving He is turning into a very clinical player. I thougth he would repair La Mina’s fracture by booting Dan and forcing Terry in a 5 person alliance. Has Misty’s boot repaired that fracture? It would seem so, and we’re left with a guy who likes to flirt and with someone who came to meet women joining a boy’s club! I agree Sally also has more of a long term edit but only as a follower. She may outlast others but her best chance may be to join Danielle and Courtney who also seem to make merge. Could that be where Terry and Sally’s confrontation leads us? Each time something happened between the two, it seemed the edit avoided making her look bad. She didn’t make a single catch in the first challenge and lost in her 2 bouts in the IC. Yet, Ruth and Misty are the only ones talked about being weak. Makes me wonder. Ruth, Nick and Dan were all shown eating sand in the IC. They will be seen eating the other’s dust when they are left behind. Ruth did make an appearance but only so that others could complain about her snail stew! In Conclusion, the Casaya crazy tribe has more end game players and La Mina seems to be going downhill as Nick said. In the emotional tribe, I’d watch the clinical players! (Well maybe Bobby is hard to see!). Can Austin, Terry or Sally find a way into the Casaya alliance? They each have original tribe members in the core alliance.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-20-06, 01:44 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Post Ep 3" knuckles, what an interesting camera shot and I know that the opening credits thread would have a field day with that! A lot posters subscribe to the opening credits as a very useful tool in determining the winner and that shot is stuff to THRIVE on I think I am so exhausted after watching the show under a microscope that I would fail miserably in viewing the opening credits and leave that in others extremely capable hands. michel the emotional vs. clinical players analysis is always helpful and we certainly have a measure of both. There also appears to be quite a few of UTR (remember that I don't subscribe UTR to someone who is just low key; UTR can also mean someone who everyone else thinks has no chance of winning due to various reasons) as well (along with combinations). Now, we have to determine which one is best suited for this particular season. With Casaya, as you stated, those less immersing themselves in the "drama of Shane" would fare better, i.e. Aras and Danielle have kept an even keel with his blow ups (though we know something may happen with Danielle for next week) I am keeping Bobby and Bruce out of the equation as their edits are too flat for my liking. Ironically, both Shane and Cerie are very UTR players although both are emotional. I doubt anyone on that island thinks that Shane or Cerie would win this game (Cerie perhaps physically and Shane in light of his emotional status) Courtney is playing emotionally but cannot be construed as UTR so she has a problem. Aras and Danielle for now seem to be playing the most clinically though they are not UTR (they really can't be in light of their athletic abilities) LaMina most definitely has more clinical players and UTR (by UTR in this sense I mean lower key) players with less emotional play which obviously lends to their cohesiveness. The problem LaMina would have is that many of them cannot be overlooked by the other tribe as dangerous. Terry, Austin, Nick are extremely athletic. They would have to worry more being targeted by the other tribe should they get that far. Sally could actually blend in for awhile as could Dan possibly. But with the way the editing appears to favor Terry over Dan and Austin over Nick, Dan and Nick would seem to leave sooner rather than later. Ruth Marie is simply not getting anything of potential and I don't know that she would even make it in hopes of merging with the other tribe. FP, misdirection is editing's "four letter" word (with 12 letters ) It has a horrific way of sneaking up and skewing the whole editing process so I understand your suspicions with Ruth Marie which is one of the reasons I don't enjoy a show by show boot; that takes a lot more precise analysis. The stories and characterization seem to favor Terry, Sally and Austin which could very well mean that any of Ruth Marie, Nick or Dan could leave soon. I could be very wrong that Terry, Sally and Austin are longer term players but that is the "feeling" of the show in these first episodes. Again, when I try to play "guess the boot" with myself, I actually try to be more logical than my "flowerly" end game analysis. Ruth Marie was told to be petering out per Sally's confessional. Dan agreed that she is the weakest (despite the heavily edited conversation he acknowledges this fact probably brought up by Austin) We also could assume that Austin and therefore Nick) "would have no problem voting for Ruth Marie" (much like Nick said to Sally and Misty) We know Terry wants a strong team (he did select three men to align) to go into merger and while Sally has put herself in a very precarious position, she has been shown to be talking a lot with Austin which she tells us also. Logically, I can't fathom that anyone other than Ruth Marie would go (Nick and Dan notwithstanding their shorter player status) We know the various reasons for a first boot. Misty was recognized as potential trouble. Quite often then, the sick or physically detrimental to the tribe is given a pass then until the second boot. Of course this is not written in stone and by no means should anyone think I have any good insight on weekly boots lol   Top

architecturegirl 227 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 02-20-06, 03:47 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Post Ep 3" Too true VS! As a representative of the opening credits thread, I definitely found the "Namaste" shot VERY interseting. Thanks Knuckles! I had noticed that the T looked like and I, but hadn't gotten farther than that and dismissed it. I'm reaching back in my memory, but I believe during the OLN replays, someone had mentioned that during Marquesas a "V" had been highlighted in a similar way, and suggested that it signified Vecepia winning. It would be interesting to see if anything comes of "Namaste"... VS, you guys certainly are thorough, after reading what everyone else has to say, there isnt much I can contribute but my two cents...the one thing I'm noting in the comments is that I think much is being read into Terry and Sally tension. I think this is because of spoilers, not the actual editing. In fact, have we seen ANY contact between the two other than when she lost he spear? And even then Terry wasnt shown being very hard on her about it. I dont think we've even seen them in teh same shot at camp, etc. In fact, we were more shown Austin commenting about the lost spear in confessional, and about it at tribal council. As for Shane and Courtney, they just scream "Judd and Margaret" to me. Will this one turn out the same way? Honestly, I think we're being set up not to care about either of them staying, just to wish the tension would be gone. This does not bode well for either of them. Cerie I think is in a VERY good spot, much better than she was. I think that Aras and Danielle will gravitate to her as a stable and dependable replacement of the others when they're sick of them. She just needs to keep doing what she's doing, sit back and let the sparks fly, meanwhile strengthening her relationship with the other two. I agree, Bobby and Bruce's edits are too flat. Bobby is the next to go from Casaya. Bruce will be kept as long as he is useful, post-merge he'll go, but I too would like to see more group interaction to finalize my opinion of him. As for La Mina - After the last episode I just stared at my TV and said "You STUPID girls!" And then said how did we ALL - myself included miss it??? - of COURSE Ruth Marie is the leverage you need to make up Austin and Nick's mind!!! I dont remember anyone even talking about it. Nice move Terry and Dan. Whoever convinced Ruth Marie to be on their side had more to offer Nick and Austin, thus making the decision easier for them. Misty even said in her day after video that she wished she'd tried to align with Ruth Marie and Dan more, but they didnt. That was their downfall. Now, based on that comment right there, it sounds like Dan and Terry are a unit, and Terry went to the boys while Dan went to Ruth Marie, since Misty linked her to Dan, not to both of them. Interesting too that she seemed to think it possible to align with Dan, with no mention of Terry. Are these two keeping their tight bond hidden from some tribe members? As for Sally, I dont think her game is up yet, she has an unfinished storyline with the spear. That story feels like its building up, not just a passing theme. It'll likely play a big role in the upcoming episode that seems to focus around being starving... I think Dan, Terry, Sally and Austin are safe. Logic says that its Ruth Marie to go, my brain says so, but for some reason I keep coming back to Nick. I'm not really sure why. It would in the end be beneficial to everyone else to break him and Austin up, strategy-wise. Obviously strength-wise its a horrible idea, and thus why logic says no to Nick, but for some reason my gut is going with him. I think Terry will protect those solidly on his side, and I think Ruth Marie is one of that number, as is Austin, but I think he'll be wary of Nick's loyalty. After all, he seemed the most likely to be swayed by the girls "wiles". TDT doesnt seem too confident in his Ruth Marie vote yet, so maybe I'm right. I'm probably wrong on it, but I say Nick is the next to go.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-20-06, 04:28 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Post Ep 3" Great comments ag and surviette. ag, I did not read the information posted that you refer as I do not like for it to sway my thoughts which information can do so my observations regarding Sally and Terry came solely from watching the episodes though I can't speak for anyone else I've said before, I know it is impossible to keep that type of information out of this thread and can't expect it although I know that posters are kind enough to not elaborate such as you because I do hate to skip over the readings as I value everyone's input to keep me on the right path. But again, as for me personally, the editing link with Sally and Terry is merely based upon what I observed when watching the show but I can't speak for anyone else and my observations most defintely go askew at times lol With respect to Nick, I agree he is in a precarious situation but my thoughts on that reflect solely on his edit. Again, I do not usually participate in figuring out each boot week by week; only the end game players so your "gut" on Nick next may be very well correct as Nick, Dan and Ruth Marie do not have longevity in my observations. As to their order, one can only speculate also surviette, very nice breakdown of the current controversies. Perhaps Shane's Thinking Seat may be mulling them as well. I am glad you broke those down like michel did with his view on the clinical/emotional players and it seems like we touched on all the current pertinent issues. It will be interesting to see which ones are mentioned again THIS episode since once we see certain stories coming to a conclusion those characters involved in them may not stay towards the end.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-20-06, 05:48 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Post Ep 3" Just would like to comment on the perceived Sally-Terry confrontation. I do roam a little more than Veruca (!) but stay away from source spoilers as much as possible. When one crosses into a thread I take it as another possibiblity and secretely hope it turns out false. When I come in this thread, I try to see what story is presented. This time, I just see how Terry picked Sally first but doesn't take her in his alliance. Then we are made aware he tells her to be careful with the spear. She's afraid to tell him she's lost it and he was the only one to comment during that episode. Then he boots her partner. There has to be something down the road but Sally cannot have power in La Mina. Two old Bayoneta partners wait in Casaya. That could give her the leverage to go after Terry. If Terry is to boot Sally next, I feel that more people would have commented on the loss. Edited this way, Terry would look negatively, as if going after someone who simply made a mistake. I don't see any hints they need another villain in this edition!   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-22-06, 09:01 PM (EST) 54. "RE: Post Ep 3" Hi Veruca, I continue to read the comments here with awe at all the perceptions. I am in agreement with all your comments on Ruth Marie and I do think that her story is ready for a wrap, as Brooke's story was in Ep 4 of last season. Sally is in a desperate position strategicaly but why did they choose to give her a sustained story if she is the second boot from her tribe? Re long term themes: I think the word "inept" was an interesting choice by Jeff. He also called Casaya "all over the map" whereas he acknowledged that La Mina really seems like a unified functional tribe. Now usually when Jeff tells a tribe their act isn't together it foreshadows doom for that tribe. But the Casaya members are getting quite the story other than the flat edits you note in Bobby and Bruce. To me this is shaping up as an ironic first half of the game in which "the Inept and Dysfunctional Nutball" tribe, the yo dude people, as Melinda noted, the hippy-dippy mismatched alliance from hell, somehow bumbles its way to the merge. Meanwhile, the disciplined, military, tribe (Burnett's favorite!), the compassionate Christian tribe (let's take a moment to think of Bruce)--which pulls together and builds a good shelter, etc.. -- somehow they get edged out, if your perception about short term players holds. This season seems like a screwball comedy to me. The first episode I was LMAO. It is one form of comedy to surround one or (a few) sane people with nutty characters who put the rational folks in a minority. Arsenic and Old Lace, for example, a classic comedy where you have a bunch of insane characters who don't realize they're crazy while Cary Grant is caught in the middle of it all.   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-20-06, 02:05 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Post Ep 3" LAST EDITED ON 02-23-06 AT 04:08 PM (EST) I'll just briefly touch on some of the controversies so far. They can cause problems within the teams, sway viewers into opposing camps of view, or simply generate excitement to watch and see how the stories unfold. THE SPEAR Does losing a spear warrant a boot? LaMina's early story is clearly centering around their starvation. Starvation can cloud judgement & bring out the worst in every being (it's much worse than quiting smoking). But, Sally didn't intentionally lose the spear & as we know, it could have easily happened to someone else. It does appear a story is building to show the ramifications of the loss of the spear & Sally's continued vulnerability. THE WATER FILTRATION Would you drink Bruce's filtrated water? Editing has me believing everyone was just fine & we assume Bruce, himself, had been drinking water this way for several days. If it works, Survivor will be changed forever. If it works for some & not others, then it becomes controversial. WHO IS CRAZIER? At first I found the "Time Out Seat" scene rather humorous, but I'm not sure how it was meant to be viewed. No question, Shane is loud & obnoxious, but entertaining none the less. The rant was linked to the fire chore with Courtney asking Shane for help. In my view, Shane was assuming his Dad role by trying to have Courtney learn the whole process of fire building. It could have been viewed as a positive because at some point Courtney could end up all by herself & then be able to fall back on a skill she has learned to do all by herself. Editing didn't show either of these two in a positive light, but rather, as VS pointed out, it was meant to highlight the discord between these two. I would like to see Shane & Courtney work out their differences. So, the question to the viewer, at this point; Which of these two is the greater nutball? THE REVEALED ALLIANCE In EP2, everyone was privy to Aras's controversial decision to reveal the 4 person alliance. Was this a humane way to handle a boot? Sure, but minus the arrogance. Was Aras's decision strategically wise? Based on what we know regarding twists & merges we all seem to think this was a dumb move. But we don't really know yet! There are definately some interesting stories brewing & I'd say the more story-linked players will be sticking around. So I'd have to agree with VS in that Ruth Marie, Bobby, probably Bruce, probably Dan & regrettably Nick, seem to have flatter stories for now.   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-22-06, 07:23 PM (EST) 53. "RE: Post Ep 3" I was watching the episode last night and I noticed that Bobby really had a nice little story. His early confessional set up things well for the reward challenge. At the reward challenge it was his comment that Austin noticed. He was edited as taking the loss very hard, but more interesting was his reaction to Austin’s choice of Bruce as the exile, the camera cut directly to him. Put all together the exile of Bruce was placed heavily on Bobby and he was very disappointed by it. Of course his strong showing at the IC redeemed his mistake and his joy was obvious. On the other hand his edit during Shane’s thinking seat seemed heavily manipulated. We only know he was there because he was the one we initially saw; sitting alone, then he was shown walking by Aras, the camera following him as he passed. But as the argument escalated he was completely omitted from the edit. I know he was there because in the background of one of the shots we can clearly see Cerie standing next to someone (we can only see his leg, but it is Bobby, and he is sitting in the exact same spot as he was when the scene began). I think the editing wanted to make us believe he left when the drama began. VS, I didn’t pickup the Shane/Bruce exchange, but add this the Dan’s concern over Bruce, plus the Terry/Dan original alliance there appears to be a pretty good chance that the old men could meet again. We commented that during the first episode that, as a group, they received the most positive edit and JP did say that the early alliances could be revisited again later in the game. On a final note, while revealed alliances never succeed, alliances shown in peril rarely fail in the short run. As always great thoughts everyone.   Top

critter42 20 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 02-21-06, 01:08 PM (EST) 52. "RE: Post Ep 3" Thanks VS, very eye-opening as usual. I don't normally post (as one can see by my post-count, I am very much a lurker ), but you mentioned this and I thought it deserved more attention, cause it really stuck out to me: Courtney (conf) “One of the most evil things I’ve seen people do; to lose and losing Bruce... all a downer” I found the shot shown during this comment very...odd. Yes, it's the few seconds right before the "Shane's Thinking Stone" bit, but I'm not sure it was really necessary - like I said, it really stuck out to me. The actual sequence went: Courtney: "To lose the reward, then dealing with losing Bruce in that way..." As "losing Bruce in that way" is spoken, they cut to Shane - it starts out with him slightly off to the right of the screen on Danielle's left and slightly out of focus, then the camera shifts Danielle out of the shot and zooms and centers on him, positioning him in the dead center of two sapling trunks. He is almost glaring at (someone? something?). While the shot is being recentered on Shane the VO continues with: Courtney: "...it just put us all in a downer. And is like the last thing we need right now" (emphasis mine) and the shot holds on Shane during that whole last sentence, and continues holding on him with no dialog for at least a second and a half, then the shot pans down to Cerie as a deep discordant chord sounds. I don't know, maybe like I said it was just setting up the whole "Shane's Thinking Seat" bit, but it seemed really out of place...very...forshadowy? for lack of a better term...   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-22-06, 09:46 PM (EST) 55. "RE: Post Ep 3" LAST EDITED ON 02-22-06 AT 09:47 PM (EST) Hello Critter, welcome to the thread! Your juxtapositiom of the 3 characters, the sympathetic Bruce and the two who exhibited negativity towards him, made me think of something. While Shane was negative towards Bruce as an opponent, Courtney was only negative towards his methods. Her words about exiling Bruce being evil makes me think she may have a problem when a tough boot needs to be made. He who hesitates often loses in this game. OFG, loved your tribes comparison. Could it be that because of their military leader, La Mina is too focused on performance and therefore thinks too much of their predicament? That through Shane's craziness, Casaya doesn't have time to dwell on their conditions? Cirie, an admitted couch potato who is afraid of leaves and outside the main alliance is, if not thriving, at least having fun. Ruth Marie, a marathon runner who goes for 150 miles races in the desert and is somewhat in the alliance, is suffering. Casaya hasn't been eating more than La Mina and it can't be only a question of reserves. It has to be somewhat a state of mind. Edited to ask: Who is playing Cary Grant?   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-22-06, 10:30 PM (EST) 56. "RE: Post Ep 3" I know, michel, it does seem odd that Casaya isn't moaning and groaning about the misery. Or maybe they are and for some reason the starvation edit is owned by La Mina because it's important to their story just as craziness is essential to Casayaland's arc. (Aside from editing, the islands have different resources. Misty said LM island has no coconut trees, so there's a big staple that's lacking. They have mostly blowfish. Bayoneta's island had papayas and Viveros had coconuts (for baseball!).) Interesting how in Ep 2 Casaya came to IC suffering and dehydrated, but Bruce turned them around. I don't know who is Cary Grant in this bunch, Cirie is just playing the observer and enjoying the drama. Aras is probably the one with the clearest head ... LOL. But then I'm from California and I have known plenty of people who would rather do an energizing exercise than a team cheer or singing Kumbaya. *Bruce talks really fast and too much, like Peter Lorre* *Shane is like the psycho killer uncle who's really touchy* *Courtney is one of the dingbat aunts* well, I'm sure there's another movie that would make a better analogy but my point is that Casaya plays like some kind of farce--speaking lines that no screenwriter of a realistic show would dare put forward as plausible dialogue. Maybe Casaya are secretly a band of refugees from LOST. They could be the yet undiscovered survivors from the wingnut section of Flight 815.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 06:01 AM (EST) 57. "Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" First, Veruca gave me confidence this last week in my boot pick of Ruth Marie. I'm grateful! Stuff that struck me about Ep 4. NO SPOILER REFERENCES so all safe for Veruca to read. Vocabulary for Ep 4: Austin said "inept" and Aras said "onus." INFORMATION: This episode appeared to give us all the info we needed about the interpersonal dynamics of both camps. I felt that it was all laid out for me. Thus, I suspect things will change soon, because the editors typically don't allow us to understand clearly where everyone stands with everyone else. THEMES WORK ETHIC & LEADERSHIP LA MINA Everyone works at La Mina but only Terry can lead, although Dan tries to inspire them to show Terry how well they can keep up the camp. Oddly, this was not said to prove Terry was dispensable; the idea was to make Terry proud and get him to hand out gold stars to the kids when he got to come home. This may be the first time I've seen a leader figure wholeheartedly embraced by his tribe. NO ONE made the familiar snide remark about how they're letting Terry lead so he can self-destruct. Instead we heard that they all need him and no one resents him. Can this last? CASAYA: "no arguing during dinner" Aras: the responsible one. "the problem is some people on this tribe don't realize what being on an island by yourself means." "What if me and Bruce and Shane were voted of the island? Would you guys just fall asleep if the fire wasn't going?" "we need to have a talk about camp responsibilities" Who is edited as lazy at Casaya: Bobby, Danielle, Courtney All 3 were originally on the "younger" tribes that were edited as inept with respect to getting camp together. Who are the worker bees at Casaya: Aras, Shane, Bruce, Cirie 3 of the 4 were originally on "older" tribes that focused on setting up camp. Aras, we see, is the one Casaya member who has switched personas with respect to the Ep 1 "focused" vs. "flaky" distinction. Shane and Danielle and Courtney None of them LISTEN to each other, in contrast to La Mina. Danielle is a bit delusional about how she comes off but, unlike, say, Kimmy, she CARES about perceptions others have of her. She then picks up a shovel and starts digging, perhaps as an indication of her willingness to adapt her persona to do better in the game. Courtney is oblivious, and is shown sitting down in a very passive position and not getting up when criticized, making an immature face and shrugging the comments off. Between the two of them who come under fire, both SAY they DO work, but Danielle is shown as the only one with potential to listen up which I think bodes well for her as opposed to Courtney. Shane was shown for the first time to speak for the silent worker bees instead of out of his own dementia. His off the wallness actually facilitated a communication that Aras and Bruce both badly wanted to happen; he seems to have become a pressure relief valve for the "mature" element of Casaya! OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVES and TRIBAL STRUCTURE We saw that Sally and Cirie have somewhat parallel positions as outside the alliance but making themselves very useful to the tribe and trying to stay low key. Sally Sally didn't make a hard core pitch for staying. She didn't try to stage a coup. She stated her case clearly in terms of "deserving" to stay longer, and put it in the leader's hands. We see through Sally's eyes that La Mina is an organized patriarchy. Not that she likes it, but what can she do? Sally made the point that the men were deciding the girls' fates. "Terry calls the shots around here, and if doesn't think I'm worth keeping around ..." (worth, emphasis on value) However, the organized disciplined tribe with work ethic is literally "empty." Hungry. And it's tempting to say that Casaya is "full." Full of it, full of drama, full of shit (about ten pounds worth per some of them, according to Bob). Cirie is the primary outsider narrator for Casaya: the crazy alliance is, well, "some kind of psychotic joke." Great Cirie comment: that should have been my cue to keep walking, but nooo. The Sally/Cirie parallel isn't an exact match: Sally manages to control herself the entire episode, whereas Cirie says she plans to stay out of the drama but doesn't. She shouldn't have gotten drawn into the criticism of Danielle but she lets it happen. She shows some glee at helping to drive the wedge between the allies. Cirie is an unabashed troublemaker, a pot-stirrer of the divisons. Sally is trying to assimilate into the unity. Bruce: doesn't seem to realize he's an outsider, perhaps because he missed the scene where Aras told Melinda and Cirie how things stood. Bruce is under the impression, it appears, that the industrious members are safe from the boot. Bobby: Outsider without a perspective: We heard nothing from Bob Dawg about his strategy or his concerns, if any, about his position in the tribe. BOB IS ON THIS SHOW! Finally, Bob got face time and the edit was all negative although funny. He slept through the "work ethic" discussion. Once again we see the Survivor lazy black man edit. (sigh) Sometimes I wonder if casting actively searches out black male contestants who will be easy to edit that way ... apparently Harvard and Stanford Law schools are great recruiting grounds for lazy people. He took a dump in the new "wood storage" unit. I thought his rationale was sensible, as the bathroom was SUPPOSED to be used as such, but of course we also were meant to see he completely lacked sensitivity to the big big vibes silently screaming at him not to do it. We hear he is "not a gentleman." (Danielle is a lady?) We saw Bob hurt the tribe in the RC: Bobby losing time for Casaya, says Jeff. Then they sit him out on IC. La Mina notes that Shane is a better athlete than they thought, and we are bound to notice that Bob is NOT the asset we thought. We are shown that Bob Dawg is expendable. KEEPING ONE'S WORD As I have been arguing all week, the La Mina alliance does care about keeping its word. Nick comments that he has a good feeling his alliance will all make it to the merge (uh-oh) because they all looked each other in the eye and shook hands. Terry tells Dan "your word is your bond." BUT Nick comments that Terry (a Libra like Bill Clinton) is standing on a technicality--"an easy hollow rationalization" that gives him an out on their F5 offer to Ruth Marie. Only Dan made her a promise and Dan can keep his promise while the others vote her out. But there is NO talk that a direct promise can be broken. Aras: Says that he gave his word, so he is stuck. However, he mentions wanting to lose an IC if he could only vote Courtney off. He never says, though, whether he would actually break his word. He seems to be wishing he could bring himself to act a certain way rather than planning to do it. (at the moment) STEADINESS and BALANCE Ruth is painted as loyal and steady. While Ruth no longer matters to us after tonight, she stands in contrast to Sally. In fact, there are a few hints throughout that we will look back in hindsight and think, what if they had kept Ruth rather than Sally? Sally performs well but could easily defect, according to Dan. She will "drop them" and "jump ship." Steadines vs. instability. Interestingly, Sally performed well in a "balance" challenge. She was not so much "steady" as skimming over the beam too fast to fall off. Dan, while shown to be steady with people, notably lost his balance on the beam and may have been the real reason they lost, at least from the runs we were shown, only Dan fell off. However, we were not shown anyone criticizing Dan or blaming him. FORESHADOWING? Jeff says to Sally: "you dominated." Foreshadowing of doing well in the game? Sally says her best days are when she's "competing." In this she seems somewhat parallel to Danielle "challenges are my forte." Austin The amazing hubris of needing a "water into wine" miracle, and then comparing himself to Jesus when the miracle he hoped for occurs. Austin reminds me of Jeff Varner with his cockiness, and we all know what happened to Varner! Austin comments at TC that "both tribes had ample water (to win) and "had I known that was the amount that would put us over the edge I wouldn't have been pouring like my grandmother." Jeff says, "Austin thought he had it" in the RC. Foreshadowing that a slight miscalculation or holding back could be enough to lose the game for Austin? Something about a very slight edge, ample numbers, close call? Seems to me to foreshadow something like a merge showdown that doesn't go well for Austin (or his tribe?), but we'll see. ----------- Lastly, the double entendres at the RC. There were an awful lot of comments from Jeff about how the guys were having trouble getting their pieces all the way in. I was ROFLMAO. Looking forward to Veruca and everyone's comments!   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 08:56 AM (EST) 58. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" LAST EDITED ON 02-24-06 AT 08:58 AM (EST) Excellent insight there, OFG! And CONGRATS to you and VS and all the others that never waivered from the RM boot! Hip, hip, HOOOORAY!!!! As for me....at the end of ep 3 I was so SOLD on RM as the boot for next week, yet that evil, 4-letter word MISDIRECTION really swayed me.....tough call! But that's the beauty of it, I do love it when I'm wrong....more to fuel me for next week! Just wanted to make a few comments regarding the comments that Jiffy makes at the challenges, they are SO telling! He commented when Sally was retrieving her floating puzzle piece and putting into the puzzle..."SALLY! With a GOOD strategy"! Then when Austin was competing in that same challenge he commented, "Austin, tangled up and losing time"...Hopefully more of you will key in on these telling snarky comments....I'd love to recall more! I also thought this show was very telling for Terry. He really does have a firm commitment to the four....whereas I was thinking that his first loyalty was to Dan, and THEN to Nick and Austin. I do believe he truely wants to get as MANY of them to the merge as possible. He seems to really have ALL of the power at La Mina...Sally voiced this as well. Too bad he's just not competing with the La Mina's for the big money, as we know that the leader in a leaderless tribe will win! Definately seeing Courtney and Bob Dawg as the odd ones out at Casaya....what a miserable bunch they are, and their camp is very reflective of this. Disorganized, in a terrible place. I just feel this group is so inept....can't they see that their shelter is on the "low ground" and needs to be higher. No surprise with seeing it totally flooded in the preview vidcaps....   Top

mockingbird 61 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-24-06, 11:34 AM (EST) 59. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" VS I was planning to stay away from the boards this season but, like Shane, am addicted. Your analysis is brilliant as usual. OFG Your reputation is still deserved-always dead on, and prompting me to look at things differently. (but wasn't Clinton a Leo?) FP I can always expect something outside of the box from you and Georgie. You gals are very perceptive. I'm going to comment on Sally. First, I 'enjoy' Casaya so much more--but it's nice to see a tribe working together like La Mina. I haven't voted(boot order) this season-but I fully expected Sally to go. Since she's staying I'm looking at her more closely and I'm getting a Vee/Julie vibe(though not necessarily a winners edit). Not nearly as under the radar as Vee--but the potential for backstabbing is there and was mentioned a few times by her tribe. Like Vee-she doesn't 'seem' like someone who would be ruthless-but the cards are there, and the foreshadowing is there.(I also tend to analyze players born under my own sign with great scrutiny). To me, the foreshadowing makes it seem that La Mina made a big mistake in keeping her over Ruthie. Maybe this early sequence of events hurts Terry but doesn't hurt Dan-who wanted to keep RM. It's strange-but many of these players remind me of weaker versions of former players. Terry/Tom, Nick/Leanne, Aras/Colby, Ruthie/Tina, Danielle/Steph, Dan/Butch, Sally/Vee though not weaker. Terry actually seems like a Roger-Amazon but with FAR better leadership qualities. Courtney, Shane, and Cirie are definite firsts! M   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 03:03 PM (EST) 62. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" Flowerpower, Brownroach, mockingbird, emydi, each of your comments are right on and you have given me a lot more to think about, hard to choose a "favorite" point to praise as it's all so good! sidenote: mockingbird, (but wasn't Clinton a Leo?) oops, yes, Carter was our most recent Libra pres, what I was thinking of came from an old memory of a Clinton chart analysis: he has Mars exactly conjunct Neptune in Libra, exactly conjunct his Libra ascendant. So I always saw a Libra side to him mixed with his very obvious Leonine qualities, and Libras seem to excel at splitting hairs; they make excellent jurists. Anyway, Terry is a Libra, and his rationalization reminded me of Clinton. Terry: I never had a promise with that woman, Ruth Marie. emydi, what you picked up on about Dan feeling a bit slighted perhaps, very good and I agree. While we are making Tom comparisons, Dan and Tom are both Capricorns although Dan doesn't have the physical ability to dominate like Tom, he is a natural manager who believes in his heart in deference to the elders, and I absolutely believe he expects and needs to be co-captain or at least 2nd in command with Terry. Capricorns can become moody and pessimistic when things don't go their way, so we could well see Dan getting a bit of a chip on his shoulder or a little grumpy, which could affect how his tribe sees him. Of course I don't know enough about Dan to say; he may also keep himself very upbeat and positive: he is a disciplined guy with a high awareness of social interactions. Terry may seem like Tom v.2 but Survivor's most famous Libra would be Cesternino. Terry is running things and doesn't need to flip around like Rob, but I see in Terry a real enjoyment of the mental aspect of playing the game because games are FUN; he has quite an appealing grin and is not as serious about it as Tom. I think Terry is probably a nicer guy than Tom. Tom was almost menacing in the way he applied pressure in his endgame dealmaking, whereas I would expect Terry to enjoy negotiations without having a creepy edge. I didn't expect to like Terry from his pre-game description, but I do, especially after this last episode. Yes, he is a serious competitor but as a "military man" he's a long way from Frank! *and now I should slink off to the astrology thread and update it instead of infiltrating the editing thread *   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 03:20 PM (EST) 63. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" I like Terry a lot more after last nite too. I was even cheering a bit when he found idol. He's by far not my fave of the cast, bc he's just a little too much (although I agree, not as "menacing" as Tom)but I do like him more than Tom.   Top

Scarlett O Hara 3439 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 02-26-06, 09:32 AM (EST) 76. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" LAST EDITED ON 02-26-06 AT 09:21 PM (EST) Let me first say how much I enjoy reading this thread. I'm more of a "Lurker" however, than a contributor. But here goes ... From Veruca's Post No. 41 above: Editing this season will be very different as we all have been discussing the Exiled person and in what capacity they are shown. On the subject of Terry, first I would like to comment that Terry's edit at Exile Island was shown to look natural and easy -- a piece of cake or walk-in-the-park, compared to Misty's and Bruce's who were shown to appear as failures (Misty's inability to find anything and Bruce's breaking the flint) They were also shown as "miserable." In contrast, Terry's Exile Editing reminds me of the Rob-fadda's editing in Allstar's -- after Lex and Rupert are each shown fishing and describing themselves as the "Providers" of their tribes with their measly catches, along comes Boston Rob to show them all who the real provider of Chapera is -- he goes fishing for the first time and comes back with 20 fish! He makes it look EASY in the same way Terry makes finding the Hidden Idol look easy!! I see other parallels to Boston Rob as well. OFG's comments "Terry is running things and doesn't need to flip around like Rob C., but I see in Terry a real enjoyment of the mental aspect of playing the game because games are FUN; he has quite an appealing grin ..." This sounds like Boston Rob to me, not Tom Westman -- the Leader, the one who is having fun, the one who is looking after his tribe. The one who makes the game of Survivor look easy. In this sense, I see Terry's edit as very similar editing to Boston Rob. And that brings me to the conclusion that Terry just might win this game either.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 12:18 PM (EST) 60. "RE: Preliminary thoughts on Ep r" Very good observations, OFG. The Sally/Cirie parallel isn't an exact match...Cirie is an unabashed troublemaker, a pot-stirrer of the divisons. Sally is trying to assimilate into the unity. There is no "unity" for Cirie to try to insert herself into, yet, so I believe she feels her best bet is to either stay out of things, or amp up the chaos in small ways when she can. She is probably hoping that new factions will develop soon. I sense that Terry is kind of eating up his tribe's admiration for him now. He realizes they all defer to him -- they all go to him with their ideas (Dan wants to make RM part of the F5, Austin sits down with him to discuss who should get booted). He is in charge without having to demonstrate his control, and he knows it. But in that regard I think he is starting to create the impression that he doesn't have a hierarchy of who is more important to him. Dan must be sensing this now that his choice of RM for the F5 was overriden, and is probably perturbed. *He* had the first alliance with Terry and they promised each other, etc., etc., and Dan urged everyone to work hard so Terry would be impressed when he came back from EI. But after last night it must appear to Dan that he doesn't carry any more weight with Terry than Austin or Nick. It will be interesting to see what this leads to. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 02:05 PM (EST) 61. "Post Ep 4 thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-24-06 AT 02:12 PM (EST) Wow that was a chocked full of editing episode!! I'll go by tribe as they are very different LA MINA Terry This tribe is Koror with Ulong's losing ways. We have a very capable leader in TomTerry who is trying everything possible to get his team to the merge with the nos. However, I found it very interesting that they showed him saying to Dan F5 is fine (sort of like we'll take RM that far and dump her) but within 30 minutes of show time, we see him agreeing with Austin rationalizing his RM vote bc only Dan really promised RM F5. Dan is seen as the noble one (as Tom was supposedly shown in Palau w/Ian but I thought he was acted like a scoundrel vis a vis Ian) and Terry is shown as the conniving one. A bit of a chip in his armor that Tom never had. Also another thing I found interesting (and it could have been in the show bc of when he said it and it HAD to be) but after he found the hidden idol (which had Terry shown as a very analytical and very capable player) he said use this up and through final 4 and then he repeated and stressed UP AND THROUGH Final 4 with a little OOOOOOOH. I think this little comment will indeed come back ironically to bite Terry in the butt . I just don't see him getting a winner's edit. I also agree with others that say a mental mistake may be his downfall from his Ep. 3 comment about the game not yet being mental only physical. Also, KT, he is the one leader in the tribe Nash theory? Dan Boy, he is Paschal and Rodger and all the other older venerable gentlemen that have played this game. He stuck to his word and did not vote for RM. But will he pay for it ironically by his own words and Sally's vote will oust him premerge. He def. has become the poster child for alliances revealed don't succeed. So, I'm leaning toward agreeing with BR that Dan does not make it to merge. He was also shown very vulnerable-weaker(yeah, I'm hungry) and in Terry's shadow (let's make him proud). He did not do well in the IC as opposed to Sally who did very well and stayed in the game bc of that...hmmmm...will this come up with the younguns if La Mina has to go to TC again? Nick Boy he does not play this game at all...or at least he's not shown doing it. He was shown last nite as unable to catch fish even tho they were jumping all around and instead he got "a snag". He also felt bad about RM but he went with the group again. I see him as a boot candidate around merge time...strong guy..no story Austin He has risen! OMH...although I thought it was endearing and I really like Austin. He accepted that he did not pour the last buckets of water fast enough in the IC but he was humble about it (very unJudd like) He reminds me of Brandon. We see La Mina through Austin's eyes not Terry's even though Terry is the clear leader. Austin was able to convince Terry to semi break his word... Sally Ok, we have a likeable, strong woman who actually handled her impending boot very well..as said before, she did not try to connive to avoid the boot, but just stated her case, etc. etc. ...although is Dan foreshadowing that she will be a playa in the future, she def. will be more of a playa than RM would have ever been (other than RM being a loyal subject ala Mama Kim). RM Her story never got going and her impending boot in Ep. 4 was typical. CASAYA KT, Rosie--what letter tribe do you think Casaya is under Nash theory? It is THE dysfunctional tribe that seems to pull out the ICs. Aras Ok he is as close to a leader (real leader not symbolic leader Bruce) as this tribe has. Aras seems to really like Cirie who isn't in his "psycho alliance" and really does not like Courtney (and to lesser degree Danielle bc of her lack of work in camp) He'll save her if they finally go to TC. This guy is in the driver's seat....he is needed pre merge and will likely have the nos. come merge time... Cirie I really do like her..she is a great character and she is Casaya's narrator (which is fitting bc she is the only original Casaya left!) She is trying to play UTR but really can't do it completely(again, she reminds me of Sandra) She's going nowhere anytime soon even though she was told she was...like Lydia? She'll make the merge and quietly go forward, imo until crunch time... BobDawg Oh my, he's been given a negative edit (dropping a deuce...UCK). His face time increased 1000 fold from previous eps. setting up his inevitable boot. From the previews of next week I think Casaya loses the IC and he'll be gone in Ep.5. Bruce One confessional...flat edit...he's not a winner Shane He's crazy and not going anywhere. Although he was shown in a better light yesterday and was in the right vis a vis Danielle. Danielle She's getting the better edit over Courtney so I think she'll last longer than her. Her dislike of Bobby was showcased and she will be the impetus for his boot in Ep. 5. It was telling that she started to shovel after Shane called her on not working... Courtney I thought for a while at beg. she was going to be a narrator, but she is not she is going to become the bane of the men's existence at camp...but her "alliance" will keep her in the game for a bit longer. General comments I really like the animals this year...lots of snakes, crabs and Estee was right, that OWL (=terry) was amazingly awesome. I thought that showing it while Terry was being "wise" and finding the hidden idol was great. I still don't know who the "snakes" are....but they sure are all over the place... And I miss AJ with his music. I did note that there was some fun music when Casaya came back to camp post RC etf fonts   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-24-06, 04:05 PM (EST) 64. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Editing to add in that I read the last couple of posts AFTER my lengthy post was already done so OFG, wonderful observations and you broke down very succinctly the organization of the tribes and the players left mockingbird, I’m so glad you decided NOT to stay away and hopefully will be adding more insight. Interesting comparison to past players. I try my hardest not to do that which makes me grateful when I see the perceptions about this by other posters and FP, I mention quite a few of the quotes you also stated and I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who took note of them BR, I’m sure Terry is enjoying his role as the bona fide leader and agree with you about Dan as I have felt that Dan’s role in this game is precarious in comparison to his counterpart Dan. Terry may find his role at some point usurped (just a feeling) which sometimes happens when one gets comfortable in a “role” I do have to say (sometimes logic does creep out once in awhile) that at the rate this is progressing, it is hard to fathom a woman winning this game. We have had four women leave us (Tina can’t really count if only because there was no choice but to boot a woman) but at this point, the genders are severely unbalanced. We have 8 men left and 4 women. Odds do not look optimistic on a woman wearing the crown. This does not mean a woman will not be the final two foil in some aspect or that one or more women won’t be at the end game as the short term players I have already felt to be established do include women. There is a very powerful feel to this season with a lot of strong personalities and opinions, hard playing and an extremely diversified cast. With so many strong and stand out personalities there may be quite a few explosions ahead (Shane alone!) and way too many pacts, agreements and honors spoken to us which sets off suspicion they all in some fashion will crumble. Well I must say I have a bit of an editing hangover which you will probably share after you read my LONG post ahead Unlike last season, the editing seems pretty straightforward thus far and, in fact, I found some interesting occurrences this episode that may solidify this. I find that when the editors go to great lengths to chop up scenes or insert scenes or confessionals that do not happen when we think they do, they are attempting to create something for the audience to help elicit drama or surprise when in reality, the situation is exactly what it appears to be but they need to do something to NOT make it predictable. This will make more sense as you read. The Recap I do stress importance on the recap as it helps to set up the story for the evening and sometimes a nugget of foreshadowing is inserted to be filed away for future reference. The recaps this season are quite a bit longer than normal as there appears to be quite a lot of “goings on” so quickly Bruce returns as a tribe member “Gift from heaven” At LaMina things look bleak Nick “If we can catch a few fish......” The RC brought comforts.... Tom once again dominated.... and the winner sent someone to EI Austin “They are crumbling without Bruce....” Shane “These guys are playing for keeps!” LaMina’s new tarp kept them warm and Bruce didn’t fare so well... Bruce “I didn’t have time to look” (for the idol) At Casaya, Shane, Courtney, Aras and Danielle’s alliance was strained Shane “You’re out of your mind” (to Courtney) Cerie “These are the people you decided to align with... how stupid is that!” At the IC, Bruce rejoined the tribe and Casaya battled their way to victory Dan and Terry schemed with Austin and Nick Terry “We got to the two younger men quickly” But Misty and Sally had other plans. Sally “Ruth Marie is pretty weak right now...” Sally “Could you vote for Ruth Marie” Nick “Yeah” Austin and Nick had a tough choice Austin “We could go with Sally and Misty or Terry and Dan...” At Tribal Council, the men came together...... The Boy’s Club As we were meant to be shown, Sally was visually shown to be in an very excluded position approaching the “boys” who were huddled together over the fire Sally (conf) “Last night..... Misty was voted out. The guys said Ruth Marie so it seems I’m the odd woman out and it kind of isolated me. There are some big boys in that camp calling a lot of the shots and all I can do is keep working hard and prove myself valuable” We then see Dan and Ruth Marie strolling the beach discussing the status of the tribe: Dan “Final five you... me, Terry, Nick, Austin; it’s a perfect fit” (those pesky numbers again) Dan (conf) “I’ve been thinking a lot about who should be the fifth person and I thought Ruth Marie is the one to go with. I don’t think Sally feels like part of this team and I think when merge comes Sally will drop us like a stone” (At this time, a snake slithers by and we see PRESUMABLY Terry, Dan, Nick and Austin having a conversation. Bear with me This conversation was completely and utterly sliced and diced. I am of the mind set that there were actually TWO separate conversations that happened. My thoughts on how this basically occurred was that perhaps Dan mulled over Ruth Marie as a “fifth” and he speaks to Terry only about it which Terry agrees with but another conversation at another time occurs with the young men and Terry. I do not believe Dan was privy to that conversation and I believe that other suggestions were made. The shots of the four men have various close up shots that suggest Dan may have been shown to be there for this conversation when I do not think he was but in actuality, had a separate conversation with Terry. In the first portion where Dan is shown Dan has his buff on at this point Terry (in voice over) “We’ve got the numbers here, got the four guys and stuff; all strong guys (too much emphasis on the “four guys”, therefore something will break this up) The shot then goes to Nick only: Nick “Yeah” The shot then goes back to Terry but Terry does not look like he is directing the conversation as it is made to appear, it looks like he is listening..... Nick “When we merge, need a fifth...” Terry (in voiceover) “Right” (shot of Ruth Marie is shown) Nick (in voiceover) “...and Dan suggested Ruth Marie”(This part of Nick’s sentence was not shown coming out of Nick’s mouth; it sounded extremely edited and it may very well have been from a confessional Nick had made. Remember the illusion is being created that all four men are talking and agreeing completely that Ruth Marie will be their “fifth”) The next shot goes to Dan who is standing with Terry but Dan suddenly is NOT wearing his buff and we see Dan speaking with Terry and says:: Dan “I said okay, final five” Terry “That’s fine, that’s fine” (Again, I believe that Dan is only talking to Terry here. We then see Terry, Nick and Austing, Dan is NOT shown and we have a voiceover) Terry (voiceover) “We got a really strong alliance of four guys and KIND OF a fifth RIGHT NOW is Ruth Marie” (During this we see a shot of Ruth Marie) Again, it almost too confusing to put down on paper but clearly there had to have been two separate conversations, Dan had his buff on in the early shot of him with “all four men” then the buff is gone during the supposed same conversation with “all four men” As indicated it appears that Dan thought about Ruth Marie and suggested same to Terry. Note how Terry tells us “kind of a fifth right now” which sounds extremely “willy nilly” whereas the intent of this scene was to show the audience it was a solid situation which all four men agreed upon Terry (conf/voice over) “I’m pretty confident with the alliance we have. Everyone is shaking hands on it and looked each other in the eye so I have a good feeling we have an alliance that will make it to the merge” (A shot of Sally and Dan are shown with Sally in the foreground and Dan in the background) If you have a moment and are able, go back and watch this with this idea in your head of what I am stating as it may be easier to just watch the scene noting what is said in voice overs, how they are standing and making note of Dan’s buff that is there and then is not. I find this fascinating and it is my constant enjoyment to analyze as one has to wonder why this was done, for what purpose? Clearly the intent was to make the audience believe this was a solid understanding and agreement with the four men and Ruth Marie How Do You Solve A Problem Like Casaya? What an interesting comparison with both tribes. LaMina is cohesive in their personalities, respect one another and so forth yet the aura around them is sinking and depleted as if in slow motion. Casaya on the other hand seems to require medication to calm down. They are socially dysfunctional and inept with each other. I’ve never quite seen a tribe with such diverse personalities. Bruce, Aras and Shane are gathering snails and the scene is already established to reflect their working while the others (Bobby, Danielle and Courtney) are not. Again, I noticed how Shane’s over the top behavior is solely directed towards the women. You will note that Bobby surely was depicted as not contributing yet Shane’s wrath only went at Courtney and later Danielle......... Aras (conf) “We got pounds of snails (Courtney does yoga) The problem is that some people don’t realize what being on an island by yourself means (shots of Danielle, Bobby and Courtney all laying down) Upon the three men approaching with the fire down Courtney advises them that they are “sorta out of fire when I got here” (There is silence then tense music and while we know that Shane, Aras and Bruce were there, the shot focused on Aras’ reaction; not surprising since Aras reflects on the tribe as a whole and Shane mostly reflects on how things solely just affect him. Bruce, as I point out also later, is completely non significant during the tribe “tirades” I wondering if he asked to go to Exile Island as we barely see him at Casaya this episode ) Aras “We’ve got to talk about work, camp effort....” Bruce (conf) “We cam back and the fire was like, nothing. Shane and Aras had just had it” (The scene then reflects Aras directing the conversation, waking up Bobby and Danielle and Cerie observing. A nice visual of Courtney snapping twigs angrily put in) Courtney “That kills me to hear that because I am honestly working” Aras “What if me, Shane and Bruce got voted off the island; would you guys just fall asleep if the fire wasn’t going?” Courtney “That whole question is stupid!” Aras (conf) “I gave (Shane, Courtney, Danielle) my word in an alliance but if I had my druthers, I wouldn’t want to be in an alliance with Courtney (yet he doesn’t mention Danielle although Danielle was clearly also not working) I would almost lose it on purpose to get Courtney voted off because she just gets on my nerves” (Ah, now isn’t that a little nice of something In all honesty, I don’t necessarily believe anything would come of that but we are being told very loud and clear by Aras that Courtney is a thorn in his side. This corresponds nicely with Shane’s discussion about Courtney as well. When Shane told us that Courtney is on his nerves, I found that amusing coming from him, of all people. Yet here, Aras (who if you notice has now been inching towards the side of complete normalcy as opposed to his first episode) is telling us the same thing. As a viewer, I didn’t scoff at his confessional so this now lends to Shane as actually being more credible (did I just say Shane could be credible??) Aras is turning into quite a prominent narrator for his tribe, speaking about himself, game thoughts and the tribe. All a very good sign. His “character” is fleshing out as the episodes air and now we are seeing how he is actually one of the most “centered” members on his tribe (a little pun was due) Cerie (conf) “Things were planned, alliances made, and I was told I would be the one to go after Melinda but it’s constant, constant drama! I love it! Yes! So my strategy is to continue to work and stay out of the drama” (Cerie’s confessional possibly continues as she is in the same place and the dialogue flows evenly when she makes the next confessional BUT this following confessional is shown after the battle that Shane and Danielle have. Obviously, Cerie is a key narrator and this portion of her confessional fit nicely with that later fight) Cerie (conf) “The Danielle, Shane, Courtney and Aras foursome is like some psychotic joke and it seems to be unraveling little by little, yay!” (Again, this confessional is shown much later but she is sitting in the same spot with the same outfit and this blends nicely from the first confessional) The Reward Challenge Edited to add in: FP, I’m glad you also took note of the commentary by Jeff. Some of you know how much I enjoy those comments; some DO stand out and many times I do believe they are inserted (as they are voiceovers) to showcase a potential path of the contestant Interesting visual shown just prior to the challenge when the contestants were standing on the beam ready to begin, we see a shot of Aras pointing out to the puzzle structure presumably next to Danielle which then cuts over to Terry doing the same gesture with Sally next to him Jeff: “For the losers....” (Shot of Nick) Jeff: “Sally with a good strategy!” Jeff: “Bruce losing time for Casaya” Jeff: “Danielle going out wide!” Jeff: “Austin tangled up, losing time” Jeff: “Casaya made up some time” Jeff: “Terry putting LaMina back in the lead” Jeff: “Dan and Sally trying to lead together” Jeff: “Casaya kinda doing it own their own” Thereafter, to no one’s surprise, Terry was chosen to be exiled with a nice shot of Shane’s laughter of payback Terry says his goodbyes with a very tight shot of Cerie and Aras (I will say that Aras does get noticeable visuals which also is enhancing his increasing characterization. Another visual prior to the commercial showed Shane’s arms raised in victory which then panned to Aras in slow motion raising his hands in victory) We Lost Our Leader LaMina’s demeanor was literally put forth as a lost puppy in the woods. The vitality and spark usually there was clearly missing with Terry gone. I actually find the mood of this tribe about their “leader” quite refreshing in all honesty. Many times those that lead or are “asked” to lead end up finding themselves ridiculed by those who asked for the leadership or there becomes a few who we hear are bitter that someone is asked to lead. Terry is clearly appreciated by them as their leader, we hear it, we see it, we feel it. While ultimately that is potentially detrimental for Terry (as Austin points out, Terry has the biggest target on him) I actually enjoy seeing a tribe collectively truly appreciate their leader. With that said and as stated to BR way above, I “feel” a hint of our leader perhaps getting usurped and it may tie in with that undercurrent I “felt” involving Terry and Sally. Sally (conf) “We lost the reward challenge.... they chose Terry, knew they would; he’s our leader” Thereafter, we saw a little low key fumbling about the different options people had but the main point was without Terry, LaMina doesn’t function and one goal that Dan announced was to make their home look nice for his return Again, another out of sequence confessional occurs. We are shown Austin discussing the state of the tribe without Terry and then the confessional picks up again about without Terry, people are coming up with different ideas. These two confessionals are not in the same place so the latter confessional may quite possibly have to do MORE about the Sally/Ruth Marie issue than “different ideas” i.e. taking a nap or eating Austin (conf) “With Terry not being here, just don’t have that person who just seems like they are completely in charge. He makes everything just work in such an orderly fashion” (Visual shown right then of Ruth Marie and Sally walking towards each other and passing each other by) “Without him, it seems like we have people all coming up with different ideas. I miss him; I am ready for him to come back (This, again may refer in actuality to the different ideas of which woman to keep around as this confessional is not in the same place as the first one; it is possible that the early conversation the “four men” were shown to have may have really occurred after Terry came back from Exile Island which means Ruth Marie was, as Terry said “kind of a fifth, right now”) Situations Better Left To Our Imagination Obviously the scenes at Casaya with regard to Bobby’s bathroom excursion is solely meant to establish more discord amongst the tribe. Interestingly enough, Courtney and Bruce were non existent during all this; the main players were Aras in establishing how the bathroom should be used and Danielle, telling us her opinion on how Bobby used it. Cerie and Shane not surprisingly were there but more/less observers Again, like LaMina’s choppy sequences, this scene was very choppy as Aras is shown with a hat, without a hat, with a hat. My opinion on this is solely that perhaps Bobby did not immediately relieve himself in the bathroom as suggested but a little later on but the intent was to show Bobby wanting to break it in without any hesitation Danielle (conf) “We won a bathroom.... got five gallons of water, soap.... great!” Aras “Do you want to talk about the uses for what we just won? My vote is for firewood and keeping things dry” (Shot of Bobby) Bobby “Mind if I break in the dumpster?” (Again, I don’t believe that Bobby did this immediately upon their arrival back but the intent was to reflect he did; reaction shots immediately went to Shane, Danielle and Aras. My thinking about the lack of showing by Courtney, Cerie and Bruce is possibly that Shane, Dannielle and Aras may be the most instrumental in Bobby’s demise as I would like to think that Bruce, Courtney and Cerie had an opinion as well but the focus was on these three) Bobby (conf) “The rocket scientists decided immediately the first thing we’re gonna do is store wood in it” Danielle (conf) “Bobby frustrates me... not a gentleman, can’t deal with people like that” We then note Danielle stating what Bobby did wasn’t a wise decision and Aras “Let’s enjoy our victory guys, two in a row” (This would probably be something that was said upon their return; as stated the entire scene was out of order) Shane “Terry’s gone for two days, he’s gonna be undernourished, no water, coming back for immunity challenge, he’s gonna be weak” (No but the rest of his tribe will be) Shane (conf) “We got em right where we want them, you know which is their leader hurt (Note that as Shane says this in confessional, we then see Bruce (finally) and Bobby, they do a handshake and Bobby then pats Bruce. Bruce is their provider and brought Casaya around; foreshadowing of their OWN leader hurt?) “Terry’s in Hell” (shot to Cerie laughing and then camera goes to Aras) The Exiled One Well it is obvious that we would have a much more thorough exile of someone who ultimately find the hidden idol What will NOW be interesting is to see if other long term players are treated differently. Terry found the idol. The fact he has the ingredients as an end game player notwithstanding, he found the idol so the events had to be shown though I must add that the visual of him in front of the skull at the beginning, the dramatic spin on the clues being read backwards, the shots of the birds and especially the owls watching may have been fine tuned a bit because Terry is someone who has longevity Terry (reading about the idol) “.....up to and thru the final four, up to and THRU the final four (emphasis by Terry on “thru”), alright!” “This makes the whole trip out here worthwhile; they did me a favor. That idol in my back pocket is definitely my ace in the hole!” (Again, perhaps nothing, perhaps something but he repeated the on part and emphasized “thru” Possible foreshadowing that indeed he uses the idol exactly when stated ) Can Casaya Ever Calm Down? We revert back to Casaya again and why not, the drama that Cerie stays out of but gleefully enjoys is prevalent at Casaya. The social strife shown there for a tribe that did NOT visit Tribal Council is interesting since a lot of focus is usually shown on the tribe that does go to Tribal Council. We may attempt to surmise then that the Casaya dynamics are important regardless that they did not go to Tribal Council (and it is naturally good television) In reality, however, bickering is probably something that is done quite a lot amongst tribes; boredom sets in, personalities conflict, etc. We are persistently shown the fall outs at this tribe and with Cerie helping us along, it would certainly point to the fact that Casaya has a lot of meat with the story this season. Cerie (conf) “Our fire was out so Aras and Shane decided we should move the fire pit” Aras (conf) “I feel if I push for something or Shane pushes for something it happens... and Cerie works her butt off but there’s a lot of people on this tribe who are a little “eh” (shot of Danielle) We then see Shane confront Danielle. No surprise there as again, Shane seems to confine his attacks towards the women, not the men as evidenced by his lack of confrontation with Bobby who polluted their toilet with, heaven forbid, something that belongs in a toilet This scene, like many others this episode was edited and camera shots added in as during the following, Aras was on top of that hill with no buff Shane (to Danielle) “I think everyone has the same opinion” (about her aversion to work) Danielle “Bobby too huh, he does a lot?” Danielle (conf) “Shane sometimes has a bad attitude. I was a captain in sports and he just.... you don’t get demeaning like that.... why do you want to help them?” Aras “I agree with Shane, Danielle” (we did not see him speak but the echo of his voice seemed to suggest he is on that hill) During this fight, Cerie is now standing in the middle of Shane and Danielle which is quite funny since always seems to be present in the midst of all the controversey The arguing continues back and forth and at this time, suddenly Aras is shown down on the ground where they presumably are fighting with a buff on his head!. Why is it important to insert a camera shot of Aras during this argument; he looks uncomfortable with the fighting in the shot and not happy with all the discord though just a moment ago he had no problem agreeing with Shane. Aras’ reactions apparently are felt to be important to the mood of this tribe much like Cerie’s narration And Bobby is shown sleeping again..... and Bruce (and Courtney) are nowhere to be found...... Cerie (conf) “That was my cue to start walking (when Shane asked her opinion) but noooooo, I had to stand right there!” We then hear Cerie, as diplomatically as possible, agree that Danielle does not work “as hard as everyone else; she does stuff but some people just do more” The Cerie confessional I mention earlier regarding “psychotic joke” is then inserted here. And Shane holds a machete with Aras next to him Bobby Poor Bobby, I’m sure there are some good qualities he demonstrated but as already stated Bobby has no story, he is never involved in any inter tribe dynamics or his thoughts and feelings on strategy, vulnerability, safety, etc. He is clearly is a short term player. This spike to his face time is probably the beginning of the end with him since the other members of this tribe have either been consistent (Cerie, Shane, Courtney) or increasing in a slow, steady arc (Aras, Danielle) Bruce as I already mentioned is completely one dimensional, has barely been seen at his new camp though we know he has fit in rather nicely. He is not made out to be anything negative but now that he is situated (and deemed very much needed) he is never there! His value to the tribe notwithstanding, I see nothing potential for the end game. Bleakness Continues At LaMina Various scenes involving Nick with fishing, Austin “with no gas in the tank” and so forth. The tribe is dictated by Terry’s absence and it is palpable Austin (conf) “Roughest day so far and with Super Terry being gone, that stupid fire, we can’t get that thing going with a dog fight!” (Note this confessional is probably a continuation as his prior confessional early on about missing Terry, same position) The following may also be confusing but next episode will determine if my possible theory is correct Sally is wearing her green pants, red shirt, hat with her buff on her neck. I merely am doing this more for my own fun Sally (conf) “The guys are really struggling today, I don’t know how much game these people have left in them” “So frustrating, my butt on the line and if we lose another immunity challenge, I’m going home” (What I would like to ascertain is if this may be a confessional from a future episode as there is no question Sally would say this if/when they lose another challenge; remember now, only she remains with the “boys” and what I found just a tad suspicious is that she only mentions that the “guys” are really struggling today. Ruth Marie is not mentioned. Again, I am purely having fun with this. Regardless of anything, Sally usually makes good narration for us.) The Immunity Challenge Obviously Jeff was shown to expand more on the idol because it has been found and we need some momentum Also, Terry’s return was met with very happy LaMina’s LaMina Is Complete Once again, bear with me I have no idea what is going on at LaMina but it is not how we are shown. Again, shots out of sequence, visuals placed at certain times. Very strange indeed! We see LaMina coming back from the lost Immunity Challenge and “welcome backs” to Terry. At that moment, Ruth Marie and Dan are shown walking together (presumably they are all still coming into camp and yet Dan no longer has his buff around his neck.) This shot of the two of them was “inserted” and seems complimentary to the early shots of the two of them agreeing on her being the 5th person. (Once again we are being shown up to the tail end that it is a foregone conclusion Sally will leave; I just find it particularly interesting how seemingly apparent all these shots were placed) Interestingly enough, the next shot is shown of Sally and Terry walking and talking and smiling yet Sally is not wearing the same clothes as she did at the challenge Again, visual shots have been haphazardly thrown in Ruth Marie (conf) “...thrilled to see Terry, comforting to have someone come in and take over again” Some discussion of the idol ensued.... Terry (conf) “We talked about my two days but no one directly asked me did you find the idol. My intention is to hide the idol. I want to have it in my back pocket in case I need it down the road” (Obvious foreshadowing) Austin (conf) “Not happy about going to there tonight. I don’t think there’s any way around the fact that we’d be voting out Sally” (Again, I’m not entirely sure this was not inserted from a future episode. For fun, he is standing, wearing no shirt. It will be curious to see when/if they lose if we see him in a similar confession) The following scene supposedly occurred under the tarp. Sally is supposedly talking with Austin, Nick and Terry is shown. This whole scene was very suspicious. Terry does not appear under the tarp and while I re-watch to make sure, Sally said this: Sally “Here’s the deal, whatever happens, I respect you both” (Who would be both? Austin, Terry, Nick? All three were made to “appear” to be there) “I know there’s an alliance but I’ve got a lot of game left in me (Austin and Sally hug) and I’d like to be here tomorrow” (Nick is shown again but in a different position under the tarp) “I thought I’d say that” Terry is then shown saying a cursory “Ok” but he again, is not under the tarp, he is with the fire Sally (conf) “I went up to Terry and said I proved myself at the challenge today and I feel like I deserve to be here” “Who knows if that will sway anything” “Terry calls the shots around here and if he doesn’t think I am worth keeping, then I’m gone tonight” (Either Terry was inserted in the “tarp” scene or Nick was somehow placed there; in any event the dialogue did not correspond with the visuals and again, I’d be interested in seeing what happens if/when the next time they lose an immunity challenge as it seems that everything occurring with Sally could easily be happening with her left and the four men as I indicated that the pairings at LaMina have one person longer term than the others and at this juncture, Sally should stay longer than Dan or Nick. These scenes may be out of order) Austin and Terry Both good characters, Austin maintains his narrator position and knows who to communicate with as evidenced by his talk with Terry Austin “We can’t keep losing these IC’s” Terry “I know” Austin “I’m thinking about our tribe here. Man, before you know it it’s gonna be down to four of us; we don’t want to go in four people at the merge to get picked off one by one, you first. You got the biggest target of anybody on this whole beach We gotta have our strongest team and Sally actually performed really well” Terry “Shane’s a good athlete, a lot better than I thought he was” (always a good sign for someone to be discussed in that vein) Austin “Yeah, a lot more than meets the eye” (I do hope we will be privy to that as well!) “Here’s the thing you never promised Ruth Marie, I never promised nor did Nick; Dan did. We never made that pact with her” Terry (conf) “Austin came up to me and pitched voting off Ruth Marie instead of Sally. Ruth Marie was given a promise and handshake by Dan alone but since then some things have changed. My goal was to come into the merge with numbers and it is not looking good right now” Austin “What do you think?” Terry “Okay, I’m with you, Sally stays” Austin (conf) “Thought it was going to take a water into wine kind of miracle to pull Terry into keeping Sally as our fifth. Apparently, I got some Jesus of Nazareth powers” Here again, the four men are situated and here again, the scenes seem distorted. Obviously the point came across, Dan and Nick were not happy about the turn of events but again, if these conversations went in these successions, there would be no need to insert certain people as to make them appear they are all there. In other words, do not assume these “four boys” are completely out in the open with each other. Terry “I know you gave Ruth Marie a handshake; neither one of us did. I know you made a promise and your word is your bond and that’s fine but I’m looking at getting us four intact to the merge..... (And you all know by now, this suggests it won’t happen) (Nick and Dan are under the tarp very unhappy as shown) “.....and the strongest way possible is to have the strongest player I think, which is Sally” Dan (conf) “I can’t believe how quickly it falls apart. Austin and Terry are now saying you had the handshake so it’s okay for us to back out. We had an understanding (final five) to change courses in midstream is a big mistake; it’s crazy” Dan “Be aware if we take out Ruth Marie tomorrow, we are down to four anyway, Sally’s gonna jump ship.... she’ll say anything right now” Austin “Dude I know she’ll stay with us.......” Dan “She wants to be here so bad she’ll do whatever whereas Ruth Marie would die on a sword before she’d give up her word” “I think Sally will say it’s a game, I’m switching” (Note that Nick is not at all part of this scene although he is supposed to be there) Nick (conf) “Lots of strategy discussion among the tribe right now. Terry, he tried to get real technical about it and said it really was just Dan’s promise to Ruth Marie. Easy hollow rationalization. I feel bad the way it’s turned. Ruth Marie is part of the five of us. I don’t want to go back on that” (Yet he does... Nick unfortunately, is probably too nice for this game. Editing wise, he is going nowhere. He is the lesser of his pair of Austin, he is barely shown in any strategy discussions but rather the receiver of what is to be done and his narratives are merely a quick summation of the goings on) Sally (conf) “The almighty men are plotting and the women are just down here I wonder what they’re gonna do!” Austin (conf) “This is gonna be a Tribal Council for the books. Dan is campaigning hard for Ruth Marie, I’m pulling for Sally so tonight’s vote is still completely up in the air...” Terry and Austin playing out longer than their counterparts and Sally has already been established quite nicely. The boys club is almost destined to be undone and by none other than my pal Sal I still feel an undercurrent with Terry and Sally and unfortunately for Dan and Nick the longevity is just not there. Both are playing second banana to Terry and Austin and Sally is probably the ticket to break up this foursome which has been discussed way too much for my liking Sally and Austin clearly have had a relationship for some time as we have discussed and I see no indication that Terry, Sally and Austin are coming to a close yet. Tribal Council Terry discusses Exile Island Sally discusses questioning about the idol Austin discusses Terry being a natural leader Sally discusses giving it everything she has Austin discusses his mistake at the challenge Ruth Marie talks about having proved herself Sally discusses the Misty vote Ruth Marie discusses that they’d miss her in the future as she is steady and “extremely loyal” Dan was given an immense amount of visuals but nothing said by him and Nick barely received anything. This was an obviously upsetting situation as everyone seems to like one another for the most part and I’m sure Jeff enhanced the discussion further about Ruth or Sally going yet Nick was not given any time and it was clear that Dan’s thoughts were expressed nicely in his visuals. Jeff “In spite of fact you lost two in a row, you still seem positive and that more than anything can turn this game around” (A little reprieve perhaps?) At this point, I ask all of your forgiveness as this episode set me in a tailspin I have come to be quite suspicious of scenes that are not sequential or insertion of contestants that are not consistent and ask myself why. Unfortunately as this thread is my outlet you may have to be subjected to it as well. Edited to add that I see there have been more observations and truly apologize if I repeated them. Apparently, I need to get an earlier start in organizing my weekly novel.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 04:49 PM (EST) 65. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" great post, absolutely great...I have to rewatch those scenes, But I did notice that Sally said "both of You" in the tarp scene and it seemed like there were 3 of them with her TAN... I was also very taken by the THROUGH FINAL 4 comment by Terry..but as a bigger fan of Irony..I think he'll need it after that time (after he loses F3 challenge) and not at F4. You know I love my Irony Watched a bit of Willy Wonka this weekend and of course thought of you, my sweet!   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 06:12 PM (EST) 66. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Great summation as always, VS. Regarding the editing of the Ruth Marie/Final 5 conversations that you questioned -- I can't rewatch the show but I'm wondering if some of these conversations were from a different time frame. Ruth Marie mentioned in post-boot interviews that she made an alliance with Dan as soon as the tribes were chosen, yet we were supposed to think that she was all alone and Dan pulled her in only after they booted Misty. But it would make more sense that any "Final 5" discussions would have started before they had to vote out *anyone*. So some of that may have been edited in from an earlier point in time. Just my thought. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-24-06, 07:56 PM (EST) 67. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Already a lot to analyze. That's great! I guess we all felt this was an interesting episode. OFG: your analysis of how the original young people tribe's ineptness came back in Casaya was very accurate. BR: you are right about Dan. He is slipping in the alliance. Emidy: That final 4 comment about the idol has to come in play. And Veruca, what can I say? You see in more dimensions than I do. Your reconstruction of time frames for different conversations is amazing. I'll keep an eye on your theory about Sally. Here's how I saw this episode. This time I need to apologize as it was written prior to reading most of your posts: MEET THE REAL SURVIVORS After 8 days, the masks are falling. Since the beginning, the survivors had been trying to hide their real identities, behaving nicely to make good first impressions or hiding from the cameras. Now, the real personalities stood up for us to see. At La Mina, we first had seen a well-oiled machine but it’s falling apart. No one is having fun in this tribe and all the hard work they’ve put in is not paying dividends. The goal to be the new Koror was too high and took the fun out of the game. We had a pretty good idea of who Terry was but it was surprising to see what OFG noted: His whole tribe seeing him as Super-Terry. They are lost without him and as Sally said, he has the final word. Will the hidden idol become his secret power? Very little time was wasted on his island stay. No shot of him at night. No hesitation, every clue brought him closer to the idol’s location. So finding the idol and building the fire were enough to let us know Terry is a wise player who is in until the end. The Owl seemed very appropriate. Will Terry have good enough eyes to see all the options this game has in store for him? The way he brought the decision to go with Sally to Dan was presented positively. Terry is thinking of the team. Austin continues as the narrator inside the alliance but is becoming quite infatuated with himself. Even his admission of blame for the IC loss was done with an unrepentant air, as if saying, what are you going to do about it? From someone who seemed out of place in episode 1, he is taking a lot of space now. Getting “tangled up” during the challenge was a prelude to his inability, when “everyone has different ideas” to make sense of it all. Taking a nap was his solution. He is losing his analytical approach and is becoming cocky. Dan was presented negatively for the first time. He went to Ruth alone, maybe overstepping his role. It would’ve been appropriate to wait after IC. Ruth’s boot would have been done with more dignity and that may have been more in line with the way this tribe would prefer to function. (The possibility of having the hidden idol forced them to trick Misty). The “change of horse in mid-race is stupid” for Dan and it brought a grimace to his face. The affable Dan has a “mean side”. Sally as noted, the narrator outside the alliance, showed more than talk this time. Her attitude was exactly what a “pal” would do to get in the boy’s club. Her performances at the challenges were clutch. If she doesn’t go first to show the best way to bring the piece inside the ring, the challenge may still be going on. (OFG, some guys need help!) She gave La Mina a chance to win each challenge. Each time Jeff commented on “her great strategy”, that she“gives the lead to La Mina”. She also “has the right of way…Makes a quick job and (is) first off”. She was smart to go with Ruth and give enough time to the guys so they could realize her worth. Dan was worried of what she may do after merge but maybe she can find some power at La Mina after all. If Dan complains about the lazy boys next week, she may just rally them against her adversary who, in the immediate, is Dan. After all, Sally was a “Bayoneta”! Dan better watch his back! Unfortunately for her, this season, “the boys make the decisions”. Nick is one who didn’t change. He’s still almost invisible and inept in all his actions. At Casaya, the crazy tribe is becoming a tribe who values work ethic. When did that happen? Aras and Shane are playing off of each other’s qualities to bring this tribe together. Aras is the camp life and challenge leader. Is he now also going to be the narrator inside the alliance? His words carry more weight than Courtney’s. He helps provide “pounds of snails” for his tribe. He calls a team meeting when he sees “no effort at camp” and that they don’t “know what it means to be alone on an island”. He wants things to be organized and delegates “camp responsibilities” to the lazier players. This yoga instructor became a corporate manager sometime after episode 1. During challenges, he keeps his own even when going against Terry. After each win, the final shot was of Shane and Aras sharing a congratulatory gesture. The second time, Bobby came in with a high five. Bobby who hadn’t even participated, was not included in the hug! Shane is less diplomatic when things don’t go his way. But who figured he could share the leadership of this tribe. Now that he has power, Shane doesn’t want to go home anymore. He’s strategizing and likes that “Terry is in hell”. He is pushing his allies into shape even if they “have an aversion for work!”. When they go to TC next, it seems Shane will propose and Aras will dispose. When Danielle brought up the fact that Bobby wasn’t working either, Shane had already dismissed Bobby from consideration. If Shane has the power he appears to have, Bobby is already gone. In the puzzle challenge, when others were encouraging their tribe mates, we had a clear shot of Shane analyzing the puzzle. Could this have been what enabled Casaya to finish first? Shane is now a player! Cirie, the couch potato is “working her butt off”. Another surprise that the first few episodes hadn’t revealed except briefly when Tina’s boot forced her in action. What is more interesting is that Cirie’s actions were noticed by Aras. She is making sure that he’s there to see every one of her contributions because every time she comes back with firewood or is working, he’s standing right there. Cirie is a wise player! Cirie is having “fun, fun, fun”! She has to follow her own advice and see that it was her “cue to leave things alone and leave” Danielle suddenly became a lazy player. We were used to Shane’s outbursts and hadn’t been taken them seriously but this time, three other players called her out. It’s certainly a negative turn in her edit. She handled the confrontation with Shane by saying “I do everything you do” but she still has damage control to do. Maybe the editors can rehabilitate her. It may not be a sign she can’t win in the end but the next episode’s edit could be crucial. She has to do to the editors (and us) what Sally did with Terry! Sitting in the chair at the IC wasn’t a showcase of her talents but it was a better idea than trading places with Cirie!! Courtney is losing her cool and starting to behave like a spoiled child, pouting and sitting down in protest. She is valuable in challenges and her gymnastic abilities are what enabled Casaya to overtake the lead Sally had given La Mina. As soon as her vote isn’t needed for the alliance, she’ll be gone. Bruce, from an over-the-top edit last week, was only there this time to reinforce what others said. He is a man without an alliance, still in virtual exile. Bobby’s edit took a really negative turn. Only Danielle commented on his laziness but it didn’t need reinforcing as it was plainly shown. Going against your leader’s idea for the reward is not a good idea and showed a side that Danielle calls not being a gentleman. Maybe this week showed that the picture we had of the individual survivors wasn’t as clear as we thought but very little change has happened in the story. The “doers” and the schemers are still there but some are taking on both roles now: Terry has to deal with Dan’s bitterness, Austin’s cockiness and Sally’s smart play. It was smart play he was afraid of most and led to Misty’s boot. Sally may have more survivor smarts! Aras guided Casaya through the waves of Shane’s temper but now he can count on his ally’s shrewdness. Cirie will contribute her share of work and will look for an opportunity. Danielle can be there at the end but has to contribute more at camp to stay in the alliance(or be seen doing more to keep a positive edit).   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 02:02 AM (EST) 68. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" michel, I so much enjoyed this tour of the characters and how they're evolving (or devolving) ... I am intrigued by the takes on Dan and Austin that show them digging their own holes for themselves, Dan by getting negative over group decisions and Austin by getting too cocky. Also what you are noting about Aras emerging, from yoga instructor to corporate. This occurs to me though, that yoga instructor sounds very California laid back, but I used to take yoga and most instructors I knew were disciplined perfectionists and quite strict. They don't tolerate slop and not making an effort. So I see that side coming out in Aras. Found a nice link on a yoga site where his brother talks up his abilities to influence a room of people. I'm impressed. Clearly he has charisma. http://www.poweryoga.com/class/sub_bio.php?sub=37 Lastly, I agree that Danielle is not a positive character but there's always the chance she could be kept around as the bitchy F2 opponent. I would like to see her go shortly after Courtney. If one of the original Bayoneta makes it far I am hoping it's Sally because I like her energy. But in this game the unlikeable person does have a shot if she stays under the boot radar until the jury is underway, as we know. Courtney, however, is getting a Jerri edit. (sorry about the comparison, but she is). She's in the dominant numbers but she will annoy everyone until her own alliance takes her out for being such a pain in the arse in camp rather than for strategic reasons. They are developing her irritating qualities quite early, as they did with Jerri, who was annoying from the beginning. Nice post, michel, and Veruca, your post is spinning my brain and I will try to watch again and notice all the cuts as I don't even begin to see what you do. But I do get your point which is that they worked hard to make us feel Sally had no hope and no one knew going into TC how it was going. Ruth Marie has now confirmed in exit interviews that she knew at least two hours before TC, as Dan came and told her that things had changed around. She also said that Sally schmoozed Austin for a day and a half and again, we saw Sally as quite low key but apparently she played much harder than we were shown. So there you go.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-27-06, 10:47 AM (EST) 78. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Lastly, I agree that Danielle is not a positive character but there's always the chance she could be kept around as the bitchy F2 opponent. You know, Katie Gallagher popped into my head during the Danielle confrontation with Shane. It reminded me a little of when Katie had that clash with Caryn early on in Palau. This was the first negativity in Danielle's edit, much as that was in Katie's. And as VS noted, Danielle wasn't held responsible by anyone (at least as far as the editing showed us) for losing the first challenge; we never saw anyone take Katie to task for her poor challenge performances either (though granted, Danielle is better at challenges than the useless Katie). Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 04:12 AM (EST) 69. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" >>>Sally (conf) “The guys are really struggling today, I don’t know how much game these people have left in them” “So frustrating, my butt on the line and if we lose another immunity challenge, I’m going home” (What I would like to ascertain is if this may be a confessional from a future episode as there is no question Sally would say this if/when they lose another challenge; remember now, only she remains with the “boys” and what I found just a tad suspicious is that she only mentions that the “guys” are really struggling today. Ruth Marie is not mentioned. Veruca, I watched that scene again with your comment in mind and I think you nailed it. The preview at the end of Ep4 shows Austin and Nick down with stomach problems and the web teaser asks if two strong players who become sick will pull it together before the IC. Well, it struck me that in the above confessional, if it is from Ep 5 and not Ep 4, Sally could be talking about Austin and Nick (the guys) struggling with this stomach ailment, with the IC coming up. She would be worrying they have no game in them and she is of course the alliance outsider who would be the obvious boot. (This would place Sally in camp prior to the IC, so she and sick Nick and Austin would not be this week's exiles if La Mina loses the RC.)   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 08:31 AM (EST) 70. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Veruca, I watched that scene again with your comment in mind and I think you nailed it. Definately agree, I think VS has correctly identified this excerpt as a future ep....WELL DONE! This yoga instructor became a corporate manager sometime after episode 1. Definately agree with this statement too, michel. Afterall, he does have an MBA! But I think it's a very good sign that we are seeing another side of Aras, he's a character with some depth, as compared to what we've been shown regarding Bobby and even Bruce....who seem to be more shallow characters. As for Danielle, her defensiveness was front and center under the prodding of Shane, to me it was like the evil wicked witch edit could be emerging... Definately see Courtney being edited as extremely annoying, which will continue in the next episode when we hear Bruce noting that he'd rather be on EI than around Courtney, and we also hear Aras stating that he too would'nt mind getting away to EI....it seems as this alliance will shed her at the first opportunity. GREAT insight everyone, you all are blowing me away! Keep it up, and thanks!   Top

mockingbird 61 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 02-25-06, 12:36 PM (EST) 71. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-25-06 AT 12:38 PM (EST) Wow, great observations from everyone. You all seem to get better and better. Listen, I watched the first part of SurvivorLive with Ruth Marie and she thought that Terry's decision to side with Austin rather than Dan might have ramifications.(this is only her opinion-mind you). She indicated that it might alert Dan to Terry's manner of playing. Everything she said was subtle-but she clearly loved Dan and was slightly poking at Terry(said she hadn't heard of the 'handshake' thing since grade school). Some of you feel that Dan's edit at last episode seems more negative-I disagree-I think Terry's has dropped a notch(in terms of being completely trustworthy). I'm not talking about longevity in the game-and I certainly enjoy Terry and Sally more than Dan and Ruthie-but it does seem that Dan was trying to stick to his word-and Nick used the term 'hollow' in describing Terry's decision and reason. Ruth said her alliance was with all of them-not just Dan. She also said that they functioned fine without Terry(except Austin). I still think that somehow keeping Sally will hurt Terry down the road. Were there many snake shots interspersed with Sally? Incidentally--I ordered "Luster"--the movie that Shane is in. He's the second male lead and quite frankly the best actor in the film. It's a low budget Indie type film that I thought from the box cover would be very sexual in nature. It isn't. It's actually a tasteful little slice of life film and he's the best thing about it. Makes me wonder if he's acting a little on Survivor. Oh I forgot--Ruth also said she knew Terry had the idol. She sadi she could just 'tell' by his manner.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 01:46 PM (EST) 72. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Thank you for the feed-back. If Veruca is right about the time frame difference, it certainly could come from the stuggles we see in the previews. That practically tells us La Mina wins IC in the coming episode! They didn't need Sally's confessional as misdirection in week #5 so they used in week #4. Casaya is going to TC next week! The ability to see through editing tricks could prove its power once more. And to think, Veruca says she doesn't put much thought on figuring who is the next boot. She certainly helps us who practically obsess about it!!   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 03:46 PM (EST) 73. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Casaya is going to TC next week! The ability to see through editing tricks could prove its power once more. And to think, Veruca says she doesn't put much thought on figuring who is the next boot. She certainly helps us who practically obsess about it!! LOL, michel....   Top

Karchita 4483 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 02-25-06, 09:11 PM (EST) 75. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" OK. I'm not much of a spoiler, but I can't help but wonder why Ruth Marie's agreement with the four boys wasn't shown. Was it to give Terry a better edit? And would that be a hero's or a winner's edit?   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-27-06, 01:00 PM (EST) 79. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Makes me wonder if he's acting a little on Survivor. I've thought so since day one. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-25-06, 08:19 PM (EST) 74. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" As for Danielle, her defensiveness was front and center under the prodding of Shane, to me it was like the evil wicked witch edit could be emerging... Watch it... I'll get you, my pretty!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 02-27-06, 09:12 AM (EST) 77. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" Wow! I was hoping to hear from everyone and everyone's insight is really getting to the crux of these contestants. I am quite impressed how the editing this season seems to really be honing in on these people as individuals and how they approach this game. emdyi, that Terry comment and his emphasis on “through” was as emphasized as the “why” in the idol clue. How it ends with Terry, notwithstanding, that it was said twice definitely gave me pause and you and I both do love irony . BR - that episode was edited so over the top what you suggest is very probable. While I tend to go a bit overboard with dissection, it is apparent that the situations that were unfolding were not as clear cut as they led us to believe or the editing would not have been so rampant. While the “boys club” certainly had an agreement with each other, the Ruth Marie alliance seemed to be edited very heavy handed. Since you said that she indicated she had an alliance with Dan earlier than what they led us to believe, I do think some conversation with her and Dan could have been from earlier on. The main point I got from all that dissection though is that the boys were not as on solid ground with her being in their alliance as the flow of the episode indicated. Karchita - my only thought process as far as the lack of showing of Ruth Marie’s agreement with the four men is that the “agreement” itself is not important to the story progression. What may be important, however, is the consequences of the nullification of the agreement. Terry, in fact, was not really shown to skate through that situation untouched. We were meant to know that Dan was disappointed and Nick pointedly remarked that Terry’s rationalization for abandoning the agreement was “hollow” so the intent actually did not paint Terry completely unscathed. What I found interesting was that Austin was shown to the viewers as advising Terry how only Dan made the agreement; Terry was shown to verbalize what Austin stated. When Nick made his confessional, my immediate thought was: “Wait a minute, how come Terry is suffering Nick’s comments when we saw Austin give Terry his lines? I don’t believe the intent was to completely exonerate Terry so as to not mar any “hero” edit but it also laid out for the viewers that Austin should not be overlooked either. Alas for Dan and Nick, they are shown to us in emotional game play (Nick really didn’t stand a chance for me with editing regardless) Dan’s commitment is honorable but like many past players if the story shows your game play based solely on emotion, it does not bode well. Unfortunately for Nick, he has been relegated to a few comments here and there but Austin is clearly speaking for both of them and while we were shown that Nick was unhappy about how the decision to Ruth Marie was made, it certainly did not achieve any great impact much like anything else he has done. Now we have to wonder if Dan’s thought process on Sally will come back to bite someone. That Dan commented about Sally’s “game” to Austin was interesting. Will Sally therefore “game” on Austin; the contestant who went to bat to keep her here? That is another editing angle to ponder michel’s comments on Austin are very telling. Austin is certainly a great “character” and narrator for LaMina and he is being shown more and more as someone who feels confident he has the situation going in the right direction for him which then begs the question does something go wrong? It is a little soon to tell since I’m waiting for Dan and Nick to leave since the edits of Terry, Sally and Austin have been more substantial from the first episode. Again, I did feel an undercurrent with Terry and Sally and there also nags Dan’s “warning” to Austin about Sally which makes me question how much havoc does Sally wreck on the “boys club” michel - Aras as corporate manager? Who would have thought! OFG, I read the information you linked to about Aras and that is coming through on the show. This progression of his character is certainly positive for his longevity especially with regard to his supporting players. I find an interesting parallel with Aras and Terry since it appears they are being fleshed as the respective leaders for their tribes although their methods are quite different and while the picture is getting a little clearer for the viewers, it is being driven home that Casaya has pinpointed Terry as the leader (with a little help from Austin selling that point to Terry) yet LaMina hasn’t made a clear deduction yet about Casaya; only that Bruce is necessary to them. mockingbird, good information and observations that Ruth Marie stated. I think there is little question there will be ramifications. Too much emphasis on the “boys” with Dan’s dire warning seemed to prophetic for it not to happen. I haven’t observed Dan as negative either but again, the beauty of this show is what each takes away from it. His edit is certainly not gaining any momentum however which is what we are trying to discern from the short term to the long term players. What serves him well in real life will not assist him in this game and those who cannot separate the two usually fail in Survivor. Poor emydi Danielle’s edit is progressing and she did feel the heat from Aras and Shane and to a lesser and more diplomatic degree, Cerie. The most interesting part of her less than stellar characterization was how it was meant to be emphasized when ironically, Bobby was shown just sleeping away This bodes well for Danielle in terms of longevity since they spent an inordinate amount of time on it. Obviously there is friction at Casaya so we have things to come there but Danielle’s character is certainly building. Interesting that she discusses Shane’s rudeness in the events that happened but we did not hear her “calling out” Aras or Cerie in her confessional. Yes, Shane was the one who did most of the attacking but it is not out of the ordinary for someone to go on in their confessional and say that they were also angry that Aras and Cerie agreed and so forth. Obviously more battle is focused on Danielle and Shane and also interesting how Shane’s ill will towards Courtney switched to Aras’ and all the while, Cerie is wisely carving her own path and narrating the events to us; very solid edit to Cerie. Scarlett, you have definitely not been just an observer and I hope your thoughts keep coming. Terry’s finding the idol was definitely shown with ease and obviously meant for a reason. He is coming across as someone who has handled everything. I always enjoy reading other people’s comparisons to prior players as it is something that I don’t do (and really do any of you need more to read from me ) Terry does have the incredible edit of things falling into place for himself and I’m not sure yet where that is going (I would prefer to see more problems with Terry; it would actually lend a better end game for him) but Rob did lose lol. There is certainly more complexity at Casaya excluding Bobby and Bruce obviously. The key players seem readily identifiable almost since the first episode. I am mostly repeating much of what was said in our discussions from the prior episodes, Terry, Sally and Austin had from the beginning more substance than their counterparts and nothing has really changed my opinion on that. Dan’s warning that we saw given explicitly to Austin should be back burnered and again Terry and Sally have a very subtle undercurrent. Shane was actually fleshed out in a broader fashion although still remains of a “character form” but as noted by Austin and Terry there is “more than meets the eye” Danielle is fleshing out and has given us a couple of “good” confessionals. Both Courtney and Aras were portrayed somewhat oddly in episode one but while Aras is being given more weight, Courtney is still continuing in that vein so while Courtney is being given her television due which has not changed dramatically to merit immediate boot attention she isn’t being given really any more substance than what has already been presented which doesn’t bode well for end game.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-27-06, 02:06 PM (EST) 80. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-27-06 AT 02:16 PM (EST) Veruca, I for one could read more of what you have to write! It is interesting to note how some differences come out of viewing the same scenes. I had neglected what Nick had said about Terry because…well…it was Nick! So I saw Terry thinking of the team. Dan appeared negative for the first time to me because he had been shown from the start as including everyone in his companionship. In episode #1 he was shown having conversations with Shane. He had been the only one to get along with Shane until Aras lately. Now, he was adamantly opposed to one of the members of his team. Ruth was not a better choice to Dan, she was the only choice! "We're down to 4 anyway if we keep Sally because she will turn on us just like that". Sally was painted as almost evil. To me, that’s not our affable Dan. With 4 episodes gone, we can be fairly certain the teams won’t switch before merge. That being the case, we can consider this a season with no tribal switch. The 4 people teams probably were too brief to influence gameplay after merge. Cirie is already the only original Casaya. Shane had no real connections to the older men of La Mina and Bruce may be bitter at being sent to exile by his old buddies. There wasn’t much connection between Nick, Bobby and the rest of Vivero. The only possible connections would be Austin and Aras who seemed in agreement and possibly Sally and Danielle. Austin may be confident of making that connection. An early pact maybe? That could explain his cockiness. He looked like Brian from Guatemala, as pleased at having saved Sally as Brian was of saving Lydia. Brian’s demise happened after a switch done him in. The merge may do Austin in if Aras doesn’t extend the anticipated greeting. Seasons without a switch have been good to the leaders of the main alliances: Hatch, Colby-Tina, Brian, Rob M. (All-star’s switch was trivial) and Tom all made F2 in seasons without switches. We all know who La Mina’s leader is but as you noted, La Mina may not have figured Aras was leading Casaya. Could it be that Jeff doesn’t want us to know either. There are questions as to whether Casaya is an N-tribe or not. Jiffy said during RC that Casaya was doing the puzzle “kinda on their own” while La Mina had Dan and Sally guiding them. This picture seems to point to Aras directing his troops: http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor12/pgall.php?id=5&ep=04 Jiffy wouldn’t be lying to us, would he? BR and Mockingbird, I had the same thought about Shane. The “long con” it was called in “LOST”. He appears to be ready to quit to get what he wants from his allies. In the theatre, “Volpone” is a classic. Old Volpone pretends to be dying to get favors from his friends (one offers his wife for comfort!). In the end however, young Mosca tricks the con man and gets all of Volpone’s riches. ETA: Volpone is forced to exile in the end!   Top

I_Contheminion 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 02-27-06, 04:18 PM (EST) 81. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" I hope that new posters can join in the fun? Actually, I must confess to being around way back yore--albeit under a different name--when skierdude outed Jerry as the black widow, but if I linger too long on those heady days I’d have time to recall Colby’s ‘conjugal visit’ and would then need to take several showers. So, let’s move on, shall we? I should preface this by saying kudos to VerucaSalt for having the foresight to start this thread and everybody else’s insights; I love it! I’ve always enjoyed conjuring up dastardly scenarios that, of course, never come to fruition but for me it’s the ‘what if’, rather than the ‘what is’ that’s been Survivor’s appeal. So where to start? Well, with the opening credits, which I realise is covered in another thread, but is relevant to the analysis and, however tenuously, the editing as a whole. My powers of recollection--such as they are--indicates that no contestant who has appeared either first or last in their tribes in the beginning montage has ever won. Indeed, Colby from the Australian Outback has been the only finalist to have featured in this manner. It’s no doubt a crude method to completely dismiss someone’s chances but it’s proven to be a useful guide thus far and I see no reason to shy away from it--much like the principle of backing a winning horse--until the time it finally does fail. There is cause from an editing viewpoint, even in an opening sequence (or any sequence for that matter) to hide the winner as much as possible, and the best way to do that, even if it were to only succeed in small measure is to put him/her in a position of least possible prominence. Not that any one in their right mind would predict the winner solely on the basis of the order they appear in the opening sequence but being book-ended in this fashion does draw more attention if only because the thought process of the casual observer tends to attach greater significance to what comes first and last, and accordingly, the inference of success that would be construed as ‘obvious’ or ‘predictable’ should it come to pass. So I feel comfortable on that basis striking Shane, Tina (already gone), Dan and Terry off the list as potential winners. In the case of Terry, my conviction, shared by most of you, is that he’s in for the long haul, may even get to the final two, but isn’t going to emerge triumphant. As an aside, I note intriguingly that his headshot is followed by a clip of him leading a chasing pack of La Mina tribe members. So…..leader, leading from the front, leaving the rest behind, front and centre, centre of attention, the rest eating his dust? Or, maybe, a leader who falls at the final hurdle and is overtaken? Don’t you just love the possible implications? Anyway, on with the analysis of the actual episode. LA MINA A united tribe but isn’t, paradoxically, without their unifier, Terry. Funny how it was too many decisions from individuals that resulted in group indecision whilst he was away. Dan wanted to tidy up the camp, Austin wanted to sleep, Ruth Marie to eat. End result? Well, we weren’t shown but you could speculate that if the alliance makes the merge and Terry--highly unlikely, for sure--is ever voted out before them, everything is going to unravel spectacularly. Dan An honest soul, whose character I liken to an older version of Ian from Palau, in so much that he has a feel good factor that ought to point to him being kept off everyone’s hit list for some time. A lot of you think otherwise, but…... I’ve always found it fascinating that it’s the obnoxious or the physical threats that are the immediate targets. Nice people get far in this game despite the recognition that they are people you want to avoid coming up against in a jury vote. How many times have we heard when strategy is discussed that x or y needs to be eliminated because there is no way ‘we’re going to beat them in the final two because they’re so well-liked’ etc, yet remarkably never follow through. There are other contributing factors, no doubt, but a cursory glance backs up the assertion that, far from nice guys finishing last, they instead last for some time. Ethan, Amber, Danni and Tom won out essentially on good vibes and others who might be included in this category are Rodger, Elizabeth, Kathy, Rupert and Ian, people who didn’t win but all reached the latter stages. For these reasons, there is every reason to suppose Dan will at least make it to the merge. That he places a lot on integrity and honesty, vis-à-vis his pact with Terry in the first episode and then subsequently with Ruth Marie in this, will help his cause. What won’t is that the others he aligned to thus far may not value those virtues to the same extent as he does, something already alluded to in this episode when discussing “how quickly it falls apart” when the bloc wanted to get rid of Ruth Marie before Sally. The key will be for how long Terry has his back. We sense a bond between the two which is stronger than with anyone else in the alliance of four and so long as Terry is not a target, Dan, I think, is safe by association. By the same token, once Terry is inevitably moved into the firing line, he’ll likewise be vulnerable. What does worry me is his excessive deference to Terry, which particularly manifested itself whilst the latter was away at Exile Island. Rather than pick up the reins in the fashion of say, a trusted lieutenant, and assert some quiet authority, he was shown to be as indecisive as the others without their leader, or rather, reluctant to impose himself lest it be rationalised as some sort of betrayal and usurping of the natural order of the tribe. I think I’m right in saying as well that he has yet to have a confessional about independent strategy. Coupled with the feeling that his edit is more of an adjunct to the Terry story line rather than an individual arc, it’s sensible enough to rule him out as a meaningful contender for the big prize. Austin, in contrast, ticks many boxes for a winner’s edit, so far. Consider the following: - he’s featured in in every episode so far, ranging from the prominent but not-in-your-face to left of centre but not off the stage entirely. In other words, always there in some capacity. - he’s been shown to be an affable guy, a hard enough worker, and a valuable contributor in challenges. I harp back to Ian again for comparative purposes as someone you could root for without too many reservations. The key difference is that we have seen him discuss strategy both in confessional and as a matter of course with the rest of the tribe early enough in the game to be a viewed as a serious player. In this episode he was a key component in the alliance switching their vote from Sally to Ruth Marie. Better still, we were given a play-by-play breakdown of his reasoning for the change in plans. Dan may well have been right to claim that Ruth Marie would prove far more loyal than Sally in their group of five but as Austin correctly surmised, losing one or a couple more immunity challenges would render such a pact immaterial; Casaya would have the numbers to pick them off one at a time post merge and the best possible chance of avoiding such an eventuality is having the strongest available people competing in the interim. To which end, Sally offers more in the challenges. Note that this is not Austin saying, by extension, that she is a better bet in the long run, merely it being a case of needs must in the short-term as a product of circumstances. Whether or not Austin was solely responsible for engineering the change of bootee--and he wasn’t seeing as how he needed Terry’s endorsement--it is the initiative he showed in the first place that is reassuring. The subsequent Jesus of Nazareth-like powers speech may have been unnecessarily grandiose and self-congratulatory, yet if you subscribe to the view that a winner’s edit is never excessively positive and is interspersed with some less–flattering moments, this deliberately inserted confessional gives us greater and more layered exposure to complete the character. Yes, it was meant to be viewed negatively but equally, not something to get too much into a lather over as well. Outfrontgirl, I know you detected a Jeff Varner smugness to it, but IMO I haven’t seen any other behaviour from Austin to suggest this. Terry The big cheese in the tribe and now having found the immunity idol as well, is secure for some time to come. He’s sort of like the Jack character from Lost (those of you who watch that series will know what I mean) – everything seems to go through him. Yet in a logical sense--not something to bank on in this game --making it to the final jury would be hugely dependant on individual immunity, more so than for others since he’s already been identified by everyone as the number one target. If I harp back to Palau, Tom’s success owed a lot to winning immunity at precisely the right times. Even then, had Ian not voluntarily given up his place in the final out of some misguided belief that he needed to right a wrong that hadn’t really existed in the first place, you can cast doubt over his winning prospects, assuming that if Ian held out, he would have chosen him at all. Anyway, what I’m trying to argue, in a roundabout way, is notwithstanding the insurance of the immunity idol, the only way Terry can make it to the final two is if he wins the final challenge himself. Think about it: when he is not going to be viewed as a threat at any point in the game? He’s clearly capable of winning his fair share of challenges, which would put him permanently in the crosshairs, and once he uses the hidden idol, as he’ll have to eventually, nobody could justify keeping him in the game. Unless you’re Dan, I suppose, and you’re willing to gamble away a million dollars for loyalty’s sake. Sally is arguably is the singly most important member of the tribe with regards to how things develop from here on in. Since she was originally slated to go before Ruth Marie, the subsequent reversal is a minor triumph of sorts, even if she was entirely at the mercy of the ‘almighty men’. Don’t forget that taking Ruth Marie’s place doesn’t alter the reality that for her she is the makeweight in the five. Recall Terry’s words about ”having a strong alliance, us four guys and kind of a fifth” which suggests a case of preserving the numbers rather than her (Ruth Marie before) being part of the alliance. I will be fascinated, therefore, to see how, if, as the consensus has it, Dan won’t make it to the merge (despite my own reservations) the part she will inevitably play in this. I mean, if Terry calls the shots, what events transpire that would lead to him forsaking his buddy Dan for Sally? Nick I can’t quite get a handle on him other than to agree with VS that he’s playing second fiddle to Austin in the same way that Dan is to Terry. If I was to add something it is his remarking on the “easy, hollow rationalisation” of Terry abandoning Ruth Marie. Since he nevertheless ended up voting for her in tribal council, it’s probably no big deal although that he chose to direct his disapproval at Terry, rather than Austin who pitched the idea in the first place, had me slightly raising an eyebrow. Perhaps he is not as enamoured with Terry as the others seem to be (wasn’t he the only who failed to comment on missing Terry when he was away on Exile Island)? CASAYA There is something to be said about a tribe that manages to perform well in challenges in spite of such contrary cliques. The discord at camp that is being shoved down our throats in the editing doesn’t jive with them winning two immunities in a row (and the reward) and I find that suspicious. If I could tie in a Jeff comment from the reward challenge here: “Casaya kind of doing it on their own” …..yet successful all the same. What is being presented to us is the perverse—or should that be delicious--irony of La Mina’s togetherness getting trumped so far by the fragmented nature of the Casaya tribe. We’re being led down the garden path here, IMO. Casaya is just about ready to disintegrate! La Mina will pull through! You know that’s what’s going to happen, right? Right. Aras is almost a de facto leader of the tribe given the painted character flaws of the others (though Bruce might think otherwise.) He looks long for this game and it was a good move to forge a buddy system with Shane. Expressing his dissatisfaction with the likes of Bobby, Danielle and especially Courtney whilst using Shane as a willing mouthpiece to reinforce it, is deviously clever, not least because it deflects any heat away from him. Shane Narcissistic, confrontational and a drama queen, undoubtedly; you just know that somewhere down the line that it’s all going to come crashing down on him. Since this facet of his personality has been an issue from day one and there hasn’t really been an attempt in the editing to dial it down, I would expect matters to come to a head sooner rather than later, followed by a swift resolution to his departure. If, however, he’s put on the back burner for a little while, I would have cause to revise my opinion. Bruce I would hazard a guess that his longevity in the game would be tied-in somewhat with Terry and Dan, and that they gravitate towards each simply because of the older men commonality. As it’s not a reach to think that at least two of the three will make the merge, there are grounds for an alliance to develop. Like you all, however, he’s not fulfilling a major role in the story being told thus far and if it wasn’t for the fact he’s made two trips to Exile Island, it’s likely we would have seen even less of him. Danielle/Courtney There’s no real pointer as yet to how these two will fair in the game. We know both get on the nerves of Aras, Shane and Bruce—and taken their turns to be in the firing line--but there’s been little, if any interaction amongst the two women themselves. It was interesting to observe, mind, despite the antagonism between Shane and Courtney, that upon winning the last immunity challenge both celebrated by warmly embracing one another. Something of nothing probably, but I’ll throw it out there anyway. Cerie Every season I make a point of singling out someone to follow in the game, for better or worse. I apply a very unscientific test that gauges which one person would I feel, based on initial impressions, makes the game better if he/she was in it rather than out of it. I’m not talking about ‘characters’ like Shane who are stereotype inclusions but individuals who potentially offer social dynamics and perspective. For example, last season, I picked Jamie; “how am I going to win a million bucks with her {Stephanie} on my team”. There was a cocksure attitude about him that resonated from the start and the payoff was great: paranoia, riling Bobby Jon and the subsequent feud, his atonement for his actions and so forth. This season, it was easy to identify Cerie. She’s got the gift of the gab and what she says--whilst occasionally putting her foot in it--throughout the game is going to be fun. You can already see her talking her way out of situations whilst putting others into it. She’s sensibly kept out of the way so far but people like Cerie can be only be kept quiet for so long. She’ll play the martyr, the pot-stirrer, the sympathiser, the worker, the adviser, the wheeler and dealer. And she’ll do it all very subtly. Bobby You’re kidding, right? A complete non-entity, toilet humour notwithstanding. Things That Make You Go Hmm… Aras – “Shane pushes for something or I push for something and it happens.” (like getting someone voted off after the merge, perhaps? A telling alliance later on in the game?) Austin – “There’s no gas in the tank.” (just when it looks like he may go all the way, things come to a sudden halt?) Nick – “I snagged one.” (as in caught a break or snag as in a problematic situation that may prove too difficult to get out of?) Nick – “Shane’s a good athlete. He’s better than I thought he was.” (remember not to underestimate him later) Austin – “Yeah, there’s definitely a lot more than meets the eye.” (that dude needs to be watched carefully) Dan– “To change courses midstream is a big mistake. It’s crazy.” (for whom? Dan? Terry, Austin and Nick? Or for all of them?) Jeff commentary: “Sally and Austin making quick work of this course.” (and what of the courses to follow?) ”Dan and Terry working slowly but effectively.” (easy does it? all the way to the final 2?) “Shane and Courtney doing well”. (for how long, exactly?) “Aras and Bruce taking their time.” (all good things to those who wait; but something whispers soft and sad, ‘they come, but often come too late.’) And finally, apropos of nothing (I’m betting Outfrontgirl will get a tickle out of this, though):. Ruth Marie, at tribal council, “I think I’m small in statue.” Heh. Phew. All done. ICtM/GG Have mercy, please!   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 02-28-06, 06:14 PM (EST) 83. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" GG! Is that really you? It sounds like you ... has my favorite Blows Brit returned to the fold? If so, WOW, after what, 4 1/2 years? I remember you (NYC resident, right?) not checking back in after 9/11 ... so whew! Nice first novel! I really enjoyed all your character assessments, very astute. I like your catch that Nick wasn't shown missing Terry. Nor was Sally. The ones I am conflicted about whether to agree with you are Dan and Austin. Austin is an interesting player and I see nothing in his edit that would preclude him as winner. He could be a sort of Christian Brian Heidik. OTOH, I do get a hit off him of "pre-merge narrator" like Varner and Brandon, popular characters that were given their due but who fell victim to circumstances beyond their control--strong young guys who were targets AND outnumbered at merge. Rob Mariano in Marquesas is another one that CBS used to entertain us pre-merge but he simply couldn't crack the merge odds. Andrew Savage, same raw deal. If so, I agree with all who see Nick going before Austin, and maybe Austin has the edit he does because he makes jury whereas Nick does not. Dan--well, it is never a good sign when a character says quite so early on that it's better to keep promises and not take home the money. I do think he and Terry are tight, but if they merge at a minority, Terry can't help Dan out nor can Dan shield Terry. We were shown Austin reminding Terry that he's a target at merge. Therefore what Terry really needs is an athletic young man or two as shields, if they go in with poor numbers as is being foreshadowed by all the conversations we're shown about numbers --NO numbers conversations shown at Casaya. Also I think we're set up to see the "keep Sally" decision rebound on Dan (and possibly Terry). If La Mina goes back to TC pre-merge, I could see Austin wanting to hang with his own allies, Sally and Nick, as they are not going to make it with the remnants of La Mina. They need a cross-tribal deal with former "younger men" and "younger women." La Mina will have fought the good fight but as a tribe once it hits 6-4 it is toast. So, either Dan gets knocked off by Austin/Nick/Sally in Ep 6, or I would expect him to go rather far. However, his whole prediction that it's bad to keep Sally screams that he will be proved right, to his detriment, quite possibly sooner rather than later and in true Survivor fashion, NOT exactly the way he laid it out to Terry. What do you think? Welcome back, GG!   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 02-27-06, 04:20 PM (EST) 82. "RE: Post Ep 4 thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 02-28-06 AT 12:32 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 02-27-06 AT 04:22 PM (EST) LEADERSHIP "I find an interesting parallel with Aras and Terry since it appears they are being fleshed as the respective leaders for their tribes." I'm wondering whether "leadership" is one of the main themes. It has been pointed out that Terry is being received as a leader, in a positive way. In past seasons, players have avoided stepping into the leadership role for fear of being voted off. LAMINA One of Jeff's comments was "Sally & Terry trying to lead together". Sally has been shown trying to solidify an alliance of 4, just as Terry. At the moment, Sally isn't in a position to lead & the rest of LaMina are happy to have Super Terry. CASAYA Ironically, Bobby (are Emy's ears burning?)in his preshow video said his strategy, basically, was to downplay his education & profession. This tells me that Bobby thinks he has a better chance of staying in the game if he doesn't expose his leadership qualities. So, the irony is Bobby might stand a better chance with a brainier strategy. Casaya's leaders seem to be Aras, Shane & Bruce, in that order. According to her history, Danielle should also be able to fill that role. I don't know about Courtney. Cerie has been put in a position where she must comply with the majority, or else! If Bruce is let go, it probably won't be due to his leadership, as his contributions have been received well. As a side note, Courtney wrapped herself around Shane after they won IC. I'm thinking Shane & Courtney might be working out their differences. We now know Aras has trouble with Courtney. Bruce & Courtney are at odds this week. Also, on the back burner is the initial tension between Shane & Bruce. So, we may be misdirected into thinking Shane would be in for a Courtney boot, when he'd actually rather side with her to vote out his other annoyance, namely Bruce. I'll also play devil's advocate & venture to say that Shane is being hard on Courtney & Danielle, as opposed to Bobby, bc he's in an alliance with these girls. If the F4 plan works, then Shane is stuck with these girls longer than anyone else. He may also be thinking if the four of them work hard, then they can all say they deserve F4. Keep up the great posts & novels everyone!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-03-06, 04:25 PM (EST) 84. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" LAST EDITED ON 03-03-06 AT 04:26 PM (EST) Well we certainly saw some dips and blips in terms of the characters. This is definitely a different season than Guatemala in terms of editing. I mentioned once that in my opinion only the editing of Survivor tells the story to encompass the journey of the winner and incorporates those at the end game to make some sense to the story. Additionally, the editing gets “tweaked” each season (obviously) so as to keep the viewers interested. As seasons went on, the editing seem to really attempt to make it completely different from the season prior (especially in the last three) With Chris’s win, we saw someone really buck the odds by outlasting the group of women. He was not especially likeable but the editing always manages to justify a win by the final two foil and/or how the winner got there. Personally, in that season, I found Twilla to be unfairly portrayed but the editing made game attempts to skew her so Chris’s win was more palpable. It did indeed help that Chris overcame a numbers game and that assisted in making his win reasonable as well. With Tom’s win, it simply was what it was. Unlike Vanuatu, Tom and his tribe completely dominated which was the complete antithesis to Chris’s predicament. Tom was for the most part shown as a positive character (with just enough balance to make him three dimensional) leading his tribe to a humongous victory especially when Ulong was reflected as having the more strength. There was nothing low key about Tom’s edit (and really how could there be?) With Guatemala, the editing took another sharp turn, presenting a woman winner who endured the odds placed against her. As she was not a dominating presence, she was given a very subtle but (in my opinion as a fan of editing) well placed edit. With a season of some very overt characters, her edit was seen but not necessarily heard as she maneuvered her way through people destroying themselves and their alliance. Again, a big change from the Palau season. At this time, I’m of the inclination that the editing will again be “tweaked” effectively and with this cast, it is highly doubtful those seen but not heard would win this game. Interesting to note that the tribe of “chaos” last season destroyed themselves and the kinder, gentler player prevailed. It will be interesting to see after the season is over if the editing will again be created in opposition to last season and the kinder and gentler do no fare as well as the those who are chaotic. That, of course, we won’t know and then we can make the notes accordingly so we can then perhaps foresee how the editing may work in the following season. With that, there were some definite changes in characterization this episode. Some assisted in helping some players and some not so much. I did also detect the furthering of a hint of a gender issue which began in earnest last week with the abundance of “men’s club” talk and now this week with a “women better sit up and take note” vibration. The Recap Dan brought Ruth Marie into the men’s alliance and Sally knew she was in trouble Sally (conf) “All I can do is keep working and prove myself valuable” (Value to the tribes is a definite undercurrent this season. Those who are working for the tribe has come into play at both tribes) Terry banished Casaya had conflict over the reward (camera moments keyed in on Aras, Danielle and Bobby which interestingly enough were very relevant) Danielle (conf) “Bobby frustrates me....” Terry deciphered the clues and found the idol.... Casaya’s alliance of four continued to crumble Danielle and Shane’s argument shown Cerie (conf) “Psychotic joke....” Sally (at IC) made a strong showing..... Though Sally next to go Sally (conf) “So much left to offer” Austin made a bid to keep her Austin “Sally’s performed really well” Dan reminded them of the pact... Dan (conf) “You don’t change horses in midstream... big mistake...” At TC the men chose strength over their alliance LaMina A downplayed episode for LaMina which is not of any surprise since they didn’t go to Tribal Council and let’s be realistic, Casaya (whether heading to TC or not) provides the most television gems. We see Sally greet her “pals” and a “Hello sweetie” Sally “Pretty proud moment for me to be the last girl standing on this tribe” Dan (conf) “Ruth Marie went home; little disappointed but Nick, Austin and Terry said that Ruth Marie just couldn’t hold her weight in challenges and wanted to switch to Sally Both Sally and Nick express their missing Ruth Marie Sally (conf) “Ruth Marie ended up getting the votes.... never felt so good in my life, feeling like the underdog and outsider.... and the four men who have a very tight alliance made a decision that I was valuable enough to keep around; felt pretty darn good. The point still being made known that the four men are a tight group but Sally’s “value” was important despite the original pact made. Considering that LaMina is showcased as a dwindling tribe physically, these two elements portrayed are their story right now. I had already discussed the lack of longevity for both Dan and Nick. With their edits and Dan’s foreshadow of last week and the “mens” club thrown in our face, it seems reasonable that the editing is establishing Sally as the catalyst (how much or how directly nothwithstanding) that possibly breaks apart this foursome. By what means is unknown but with the hinting of the women not lying down there may be a gender issue that unfolds also as it was notable that “merge” was brought up which we know is usually a hint for us to expect it soon or some assumption about it Priorities at Casaya Well should any of us be surprised that this tribe is at cross purposes? Our first view is Bruce organizing his Zen rock garden with Aras directing “fire” traffic (which visually is already sending the message of where both contestants “are” in playing the game. Most contestants with a journey or purpose shown other than the game is not good but Bruce has already been established “flat” in terms of the game so this should not surprise us.) There is a bit of irony here that Aras, a man who probably is the most open and welcome to any spiritual exercise would change “hats” and go from the young male tribe (who didn’t know how to do anything) where he led in a spiritual exercise to a decidedly PRACTICAL man who is establishing priorities. The character change of Aras is quite dramatic with what he has almost had to “leave behind” in order to play this game which we can all get into later Bruce (conf with very nice undertones of Asian music) “...wanted to bring Zen beauty to this place because it lacks it inside the camp ground and inside some of the people’s souls... (Just at that moment, the camera hones in on Aras and there was a very ominous change in the background music that applejack would expand on much better!) Aras (conf) “....question whether the appropriate thing to build at the time” For those who enjoy the editing dice and slice that I do, note that the following scenes with Bruce, Aras, Courtney, Shane were not laid out cleanly and therefore we have to presume that it was edited that much for a reason. During part of the scene, Aras is shown without a shirt or a buff yet in other scenes he has a shirt and a buff on. We are led to believe the scene is continuous; clearly it wasn’t. In addition, we were also meant to believe that Courtney and Shane were there during the whole fight but they were not. Therefore, as you know, I like to ask questions to those who like to participate so I can ascertain what a portion of viewers felt as they watched. My question is: Who were you supporting during the Aras and Bruce argument? Don’t think too much, just answer. I ask this because this scene was DELIBERATELY chopped up and there is a reason Aras “It’s dire straits with the fire” (Note that although we know Aras is speaking to someone, we do not know who he is speaking to; you do not see that person. We are meant to assume this is Bruce as the shot then cuts to Bruce walking up with a buff on his head. Obviously SOME situation did occur but what we must understand is that words spoken, tone taken, visuals shown, etc. convey a message to the viewers which we are meant to believe. In other words, Aras is telling Bruce we are doing badly here and he is building a rock garden. Bruce is meant to be the one shirking duties which is ironic as only the week before Aras, Shane and Bruce were shown doing all the morning work) Bruce “Go get firewood” (No buff on his head) Again, his comment was probably meant to come off negative) Aras (in voiceover) “Bruce, I’ve got firewood; this is a really tough fire....” At this time, Aras is now shown with a shirt and a buff! Aras (to Bruce) “You made your rock garden; no one is complaining. I’m working on this, working as a team...” (It appears to me that the “fight” was something that occurred somewhat later on and probably without Courtney and Shane around. There were too many inconsistent shots occurring) Aras (conf) “I definitely shouldn’t have yelled at Bruce, felt bad about that. It’s just a matter whether the tribe needed fire or a rock garden” During the course of the “fight” Courtney and Shane are only shown observing the situation. I find it rather hard to believe that Courtney would not jump in with a few remarks as she can hardly ever contain herself. I am not surprised that Shane wouldn’t as again, Shane has been shown to restrain himself when it comes to arguing with men. Therefore, I am inclined to believe neither Courtney (or Shane) were there during the heated battle as Courtney is compelled to speak Aras (no buff/no shirt) “When we are in a situation... priorities” Bruce(with buff) “You attacked my character....” Aras “Are you calling me childish....” Bruce “...childish remark....” Aras “....wasn’t trying to disrespect you...” Bruce “...I know you are the Master of the Fire” (Fire is life ) Aras “....all about communication....” They shake hands and Aras requests Bruce to get firewood and Bruce complies. Aras (conf) “I’m the youngest person in this tribe and sometimes I feel like I am the oldest. Maybe I need a little break, a little calmness; so to be perfectly honest, I kind of want to go to Exile Island” Reward Challenge Aside from Jeff’s commentary which I love posting, there was a very curious shot that is seemingly solidifying a sense of the women taking some stand. Upon the announcement that Ruth Marie was sent home the camera went immediately to Cerie who appeared unhappy then straight to Danielle and Courtney with Danielle looking at Courtney and Courtney appearing to say “Oh My God”. It was clear that the editing wanted to show that the women were not happy to see yet another woman voted out. Note also that at the end of the Reward Challenge, the last shot shown was of these three women hugging Aras “It’s gonna be the two young girls” (sitting out) Jeff “Look at LaMina moving!” Jeff “Bruce really falling behind” Jeff “Bruce really having trouble” Jeff “Terry with a nice grab” Jeff “Bruce can’t handle it” Jeff “LaMina working well together” Jeff “Sally can’t handle it” Jeff “LaMina really having trouble” Jeff “Dan and Sally running into a snafu!” Jeff “Terry trying to catch up” The reward is won by Casaya and Terry (the leader) chooses beans and Aras (the leader) “Just out of respect, it’s gonna be Terry” (Vague reminders of a season called Palau when the editing made Bobby and Tom constantly shown as opposing pairs much like Danni and Stephenie. There also is an aura of that occurring with these two men as well) Chaos at Casaya Really the situation was an event that needed to be shown with the flooding and the raw fish feast. Cerie, while toned down a bit from normal fare did have focus on her since she has never eaten fish raw and we also heard from her how the flood affected things. Again Cerie provides narration for tribe events and how she feels, all of which bodes well for her longevity. Her strategy of staying out of the fray is a wise one but we can’t forget what she stated at the first tribal council I’m trying to win; I’m trying to go as far as possible” Aras (conf) “Two steps forward, three steps back but we are bonding in our weird Casaya strange fish way” (A nice softer touch on Aras) It’s BEAN Rough At LaMina Again, this tribe, without Terry is edited as floundering. Terry’s absence shows us trouble with fire, trouble with fishing, trouble with decisions, trouble with EATING BEANS! This tribe gets along very well and they respect one another and work well together but without Terry they are more dysfunctional than Casaya. Ironically, Casaya is full of conflict and dysfunction and disrespect yet they are managing to co-exist and survive out there. It’s rather humorous in its irony. Austin (conf) “We had the Reward Challenge and the winner took all the spoils and guess who won? Casaya yet again! (If ever a potentially prophetic statement, that was a doozy wasn’t it! In light of the straight forward editing this year as opposed to the subtle editing of last season, this may be as straightforward as it gets should a Casaya win the game ) Sally and Dan were not stricken with bean issues and Sally was interspersed throughout the scenes checking on Nick and Austin. Austin (conf) “Nick and I experiencing a nausea....” Nick (conf) “Beans we ate got (us) really sick....” and the humorous comment “The gastrointestinal details probably shouldn’t be discussed at this time” While both Nick and Austin were ill (and really this scene was more about LaMina pulling out the win despite being ill than anything else) Austin’s presence was still more palpable than Nicks. Austin narrated more often and shown more often much like we felt Sally’s presence at these scenes more than Dan’s. Again, Nick and Dan have not shaped up editing wise for long term players The Bathroom That Just Isn’t A Bathroom Obviously this scene was established to help set up the coming events as Bobby and Bruce were the main targets at Tribal Council. It also helps when someone is booted that the rational to boot that person is solidified by something we are privy to but not the rest of the tribe. Bobby “If we get to a merge in their group, I’m bouncing, whoever’s over there, right?” Bruce “I will never vote you out, ever.” Bobby “Oh yeah, same with you.” (Later we are told by Bobby to Shane he wouldn’t jump ship which is contradicted by his own words. He also did, in fact, vote Bruce whereas Bruce kept his word. The audience sees that Bobby is shown to not be quite so true to his word and while Bruce was not exceptionally positive this episode, he did abide by his word. That alone would help make Bobby’s booting more accepted) Furthering this, Cerie and Courtney have an exchange that Cerie was shown to stir up a bit and interesting how a scorpion was shown moving along then Cerie is shown peeking in the bathroom Again, Cerie helped to narrate the events with “I would have to be dead and someone would have to pour it down my throat to drink the last bottle of wine that we as a tribe won” Courtney and Bobby have their argument and we are made aware again that Courtney, by no means, is a favorite out there as told by quite a few members of the tribe. Interesting that again, Shane is there during the argument but does not speak up to Bobby about his taking the wine though I am sure he would have plenty to say if one of the women did it. Cerie is shown looking bemused and Danielle uncomfortable. Bobby (to Courtney) “I don’t feel bad I stole your wine. I feel bad I deprived them of wine but no heart feelings you’ve been deprived” Bobby (conf) “I don’t care what she thinks; she is probably one of the 2 or 3 most annoying people in the history of the world” (For what it is worth, any sense of Courtney potentially claiming victory (though a man feels more likely this season) is probably gone by now. Survivor winners may have some negative tone but Courtney’s “character” is clearly not favorable for a victory. Courtney helps to narrate the situation but her overall character is more about opinions on situations with no real strategic development. All strategy surrounding Courtney is by the hands of others with her piggy backing along) The Exiled Contestant The issue of the idol is resolved but Terry’s visit to EI again still merited a little something extra than what we saw with Bruce or Misty. Again, Terry does feel like a long term player so it is no surprise that even post finding the idol, they make sure to show him doing quite well on EI. Terry “Something told me I was coming back here again” and “I am more independent here, I have more time for the survival part... so that I’m strong for the challenges. I am really concerned about my tribemates. My worst fear is not properly feeding themselves and keeping hydrated; that’s my worst fear” (This scene is probably what concerned me the most for Terry as claiming victory. Terry most definitely, from the beginning, had longevity but if you note, Terry’s mission really is one of having a strong team, a successful team and their survival. I want to hear more from Terry about Terry and his thoughts on the threat he is. He said himself that something told him he would be back there. Terry made mention for himself when finding the idol but that event would dictate ANYONE to discuss it. There is no question that Terry is the crux of his tribe’s survival and duly noted by Casaya. You cannot hide how threatening he is and the idol should serve him well at some point because you cannot overlook that Terry is someone who could win this game, I want to hear more fleshed out from him or his character will be too static) Nice visual of his standing atop of the hill in front of the skull looking out at the island. THAT is the summation of Terry, larger than life which could be a problem Back at LaMina Again, Austin confesses to a miserable night and Sally advising “This is like the true measure of what you are made of” (regarding the upcoming challenge, wasn’t happy to hear “brains” are being used ) Austin (conf) “Couldn’t come at a worse time. So going in I would not give us the edge seeing that we lost four in a row and are going in semi wounded” (Austin’s narrator status continues. Why have we not heard from Nick or Dan?) The Immunity Challenge Naturally LaMina is thrilled to see Terry and applause follows. Again Casaya’s spokesperson Aras “We are going to sit out Cerie and Bruce” Jeff “Will Casaya continue to dominate or has LaMina found a way to get back in the game” (camera shot of Dan and Sally) I’m sure I am not the only one who noticed Dan struggling in the challenge, banging his head on the boat and then shown breathing heavily Jeff “Casaya not giving up!” Shane “We’re still in it Aras!” (Aras yells to watch the puzzle) Jeff “LaMina is giving Casaya a shot” Cerie “Oh God, this is driving me crazy” Jeff “They had a lot of time to watch LaMina and learn what isn’t working for sure” (Note that this was in voiceover. Voiceover comments are very telling because they may be edited in on purpose) Jeff “Sally and Austin trying a different strategy” (foreshadowing?) LaMina claims victory, Sally jumps in Nick’s arms and LaMina engulfed in a group hug Who’s Voting Who? I have to say that for all intents and purposes Shane was actually toned down a bit this episode (if one can even say that) His thought process was relatively smart and showed that it involved what HE needs to further himself which is a plus. His methods are crude but the audience may have finally agreed somewhat with his thought process. Shane “Bobby, okay. No other discussion” (Courtney nodding) Aras (conf) “We lost IC; the group wants Bob out, I don’t want Bob to go” (The “group” as was shown during the confessional were Shane, Aras, Cerie and Danielle) Shane “It’s got to be Bobby, dude.” Aras “Here’s the thing (obvious edit cut) maybe we should vote Bruce out” (Cerie, Courtney and Shane are there, Danielle notably absent?) “We cannot control Bruce; what does Bruce bring to the table?” “Are we good at Bruce?” Shane “This is really stupid but alright” ”It’s probably gonna end up costing me” Shane (conf) “Bobby came from the young guy’s camp to begin with. If we get to the merge and Austin and Nick are still around, I’ve always been worried about Bobby joining back up with them. So that’s the reason why I didn’t want Bobby to make the merge” (Shane making sense? Who would have thought!) Aras “He’s not gonna flip” Naturally Shane and Courtney go at it because Shane has no issue combating against a woman. It would certainly seem fitting if Shane does leave at the hands of a woman’s methodology. Cerie (conf) “Oh my God, I was walking on eggshells as is... I’m just trying to lay low, fly under the radar, let them kill each other and don’t think about me for the vote tonight” (Well done Cerie. Cerie will no doubt see quite a few of her tribe mates implode. Cerie is extremely consistent and quite good with the gift for gab. Her longevity still speaks well) And where is Danielle in all of this? Shane “You were going but Bruce is now gone” Bobby “I’m not jumping...” Shane “You won’t? Swear on my kid...” Bobby “And you promise me what...? Shane “I promise I’m going to get you to sixth” (and again swearing on his “kid”. I will be interested to see if we finally see someone “abide” by their promise in that vein and of all people, Shane!” Thereafter, Bruce tells us he was trying to “calm himself down, be low key” and Courtney shown to intrude in his garden whereupon Bruce tells us that “he’d rather be on Exile Island than be with Courtney” The Girls Fight Back Do we dare see the start of a “girls club” Could Sally be a potential future member coming from the “men’s club” This situation that unfolded obviously showcased Danielle appearing monumental in the outcome of the boot change which bodes well for her although interestingly enough Cerie appeared to have instigated the conversation asking about Danielle’s thoughts on Bruce. We heard murmurs of the women not liking what was happening Danielle “Aras is setting himself up” Courtney “Aras is setting himself up hard core; he is going to be so impossible to beat” (Always a good sign as we discuss, those who are talked about as a threat tend to do rather well especially if we don’t hear from that person being arrogant then it tends to cancel each other out many times) Danielle (conf) “Aras wanted Bruce gone. I didn’t feel comfortable with that. I wanted Bruce to stay and Bobby to go so I took control and I said this is not what I want” (Again, whether or not there were more involved in this turn of events, the audience was meant to believe Danielle took control of the situation) Shane “Bobby is not going to flop” “I can’t vote him off, I swore on my kid he was sixth” (with a nice reaction shot from Cerie) Shane then directs his anger again to his favorite target Courtney (If there are any two contestants who will kill each other off it will be them, it almost feels as if when one goes, the other will just follow shortly thereafter) Cerie “You were right and now you’ve been talked to and changed your mind. You were right from the beginning” (Cerie has inserted herself very nicely in this group and take note that she is the only female that Shane has not been shown to attack) Shane (conf) “Everyone’s out of their minds. I told the initially and they all freaked out and said nothing. They’re like women now; they’re going back to Bobby” (Such issue with women/men, women/men) Tribal Council A real eye opener huh! Shane summed it up quite well.... Shane “We are the dysfunctional functional tribe. Challenges we know how to work together but this tribe can be really really tiring” (Again, the voice of reason from...Shane?? No doubt Shane’s slightly changed edit won’t last too long, one cannot change one’s personality but this episode was in actuality very favorable to Shane and it is highly doubtful he will leave from his tribe next) Bruce tells us about the outhouse Danielle “With the bottle of wine” (Interesting that Danielle, who defends Bruce later makes this comment to Bruce; the comment seemed out of place in context with who Danielle was trying to get rid of; more than likely she probably said this to Bobby but we needed some doubt thrown in) Bruce and Bobby then advise on the wine situation with Bobby stating he apologized (shot of Courtney) Cerie “Huge mistake; we all fought for the reward challenge and the reason (Bobby gives) doesn’t sound good to me” Aras “I feel like we are all getting on Bob. Bruce knew as well.” Bruce then speaks about how no one approached him.... Aras “The onus is not on them to ask for you to explain yourself. I think you are responsible to go up to the group. Bob lived up to it...” Bruce then explains how he feels he is being constantly challenged with Aras chomping at the bit. Aras “We are not your pupils, we are your tribemates. You can’t look at it like some ego blow but know this is a tribe trying to work together” (Danielle shown appearing thoughtful) Danielle “I think he feels like he’s not getting the respect he deserves” Bruce then apologizes to clear the air and at that moment, Casaya appears temporarily bandaged Aras votes on trust Shane throws a vote to Aras “which doesn’t mean anything” Jeff “No doubt in my mind you were in disarray when you walked in here tonight (Danielle, Aras and Courtney shown) but maybe the honesty shared here tonight could be the answer in bringing this group together” Aras certainly received a character “yank” last night; not necessarily positive but toned down a bit with well placed confessionals and some sense to what his issues were about. His complexity as a character is being embellished which certainly bodes well for him. At times I felt myself shifting in disagreeing or agreeing with him which is not necessarily a bad thing. Since Bruce has been too flat for my liking, his edit is not worthy of an end game player. Although Bruce may have been reflected to the audience of not getting respect and so forth, the point was made to be shown that he was enjoying wine that was supposed to be shared and he was tending his garden while fire needed to be going. It was also shown considerably that he was failing miserably at the challenges. Regardless of whose side you took (and the “side” may be due to your age, your lifestyle, your gender, etc.) the edit supported Aras more by showing his reasons were for the tribe’s welfare with continuous showing at challenges, and he didn’t sneak any of the tribes’ items. What reflected poorly for Aras gave him dimension but again this is not to say he was right and Bruce was wrong. Let’s not forget also that Danielle and Shane’s reasons for wanting to keep Bruce were not because of BRUCE himself but more about wanting to get rid of BOBBY (for their own reasons) Over at LaMina Austin continues as narrator and Sally obviously dipped down a bit but that is of no consequence as the events did not dictate her presence in magnitude but both of them (along with Terry) were more present than either Nick or Dan. What will be interesting to see is the male and female situation that appears to be developing; perhaps this involves Dan’s foreshadowing of Sally. Terry is still considerably a looming figure but I would like to see more dynamic other than his “larger than life” persona. Courtney remains consistent if not arguably one of the most “necessary evils” that are showcased to us (by this I mean she appears to be a tool whose progression is more at the hands of others than by anything she may do herself) Dan and Nick have not changed in my opinion and Cerie and Shane are still very much established and we may have seen the beginning of a power struggle with Aras and Danielle   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-06, 05:13 PM (EST) 85. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" Incredibly insightful observations, once again, VS! Well done! First let me address this quote from you: Shane “I promise I’m going to get you to sixth” (and again swearing on his “kid”. I will be interested to see if we finally see someone “abide” by their promise in that vein and of all people, Shane!” I couldn't believe my ears when I heard this...Shane promised him sixth when WE think there are only 4 in his alliance. Obviously, there is an alliance that's been made that has not been shown...and that bodes far better than one that's revealed, right? I'm betting they have indeed taken Cirie into the fold... My take on the characters are similiar to yours...but, frankly Courtney is a piece of work, she is a lunatic. I see her as very controlling and selfish and one who doesn't know how to keep her big mouth shut, definately see her as the first one out of the alliance. As for Bruce, he's really not got much either. While Aras was being argumentative with him, I agreed, Bruce's priorities seem to revolve around him. I don't see him bonding to the Lunatic alliance, therefore I see him having no real game. Not long for the show, imo. Cirie is definately working it and doing quite well, and as I suspect has weaseled her way into the alliance. She's very supportive to the powers that be. Shane definately showed me some of his true character last night. Hopefully his detox is well on its way by now. He's a man that honors his word, and I really like that. He also was shown to be a very smart player with how he voted for Aras at TC with the throw away vote and how he assessed the situation. Very perceptive of Bob Dawg as well, we were indeed shown Bob saying that he'd flip asap, which is the rationale that Shane used for proposing his boot. I think that Aras was keenly against the Bob Dawg boot perhaps because he was on his original tribe....I do wonder about those original alliances and the impact that they will have on the end game...Jiffy forewarned about this as well in the beginning of the show. AS for Aras, wow, what a night for him. I love that he's trying to be the leader/elder of the tribe, but he's going about it a bit too forcefully, it's almost as he's keeping a tally as to who does what....not good. He also thought he got his way and was able to convince the group into voting Bruce, but then was really blindsided at TC. This will be a huge eye opener for him. He may have thought he was in charge, but clearly he can see now that he is definately not calling the shots. I suspect he'll change and adapt which may bode very very well for his longevity. Danielle did seem to take charge with the women and their plot, she's a player, no ifs, ands, or buts. I think her editing will continue to be dominant in the eps to come. At La Mina, Dan is still invisible to me, much as RM was and I think that the editing still supports his early demise...which makes me sad, as I really like him. As you noted Austin is far more of a player than Nick and Sally did take a back seat tonight as well. Great observations on Terry, and I agree, it's all about the team with him and I would like to see a little more, it's all about how I'm going to get there as well. Great episode, I just can't wait to see what happens when these daws are all brought together. I suspect Bruce will try and realign as he has no connection at Casaya, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Cirie jump as well. Time will tell!   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-03-06, 10:19 PM (EST) 86. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" Loved your analysis VS : Just to answer quickly before I think too much, I took the side of Aras during the argument with Bruce. And it’s not a question of age or gender. I would’ve been a La Mina at the start! (Not only Cirie was mad at hearing 35 was old!) It’s just that I like someone focusing on the game. You have been extremely astute in noticing that Shane only argues with women but that he didn’t argue with Bobby about the wine isn’t due to that. He and Aras didn’t drink a drop of wine according to Bobby. To respond to your comparison of the past 3 seasons’ edit, I love your winner's journey view. I tend to see a story that applies to the group and how the winner emerged. Vanuatu and Palau didn’t have many stories to tell. Neither had real villains so they manufactured Twila, Amy and Coby. Vanuatu’s story could be seen as the breakdown of a strong alliance. Once Leann was booted, the story was over. Palau was even more predictable. As soon as Ulong disappeared, the story again was over. Act II didn’t live up to ACT I. The edit featured openly Chris and Tom’s strategy as it was practically the only story to tell. Guatemala had more villains and heroes to showcase. Danni’s story could be kept low-key as the viewers had other things to focus on. And BR told us that Jeff participates more in the editing nowadays. Jeff commented that Danni played a game he never saw. Maybe they wanted us to feel like Jeff. This season has quite a unique cast to say the least. The winner won’t be as hidden but it does seem to be a group effort. The scene stealers may not be the last ones standing. This week, the episode was so much about Casaya that I feel it could’ve been titled: People are Strange We start briefly at La Mina but they served mainly as straight men to all the bizare behaviour at Casaya. Their only strange behaviour was gorging on beans when they hadn’t eaten much in 12 days. (Nothing lives downwind from La Mina anymore!) You are right in your assessment of Nick and Dan. All we heard of note from Nick was that he was wrecked. He can’t last much longer. To Dan, I say you better “watch your head!” Terry had a good episode again but nothing to add dimensions to his character. He thinks of the team. When Sally hugs Nick after the IC win, he is seen pumping his fist and looking at the team with a smile but doesn’t join the hug right away, keeping a distance. His exile was again made to look easy. The harsh conditions aren’t hurting Terry. Will the new dynamics of the game come as naturally to him? Austin was only shown as a funny narrator. Being an author, I’m not sure he’ll be happy to have those quotes featured! Sally was virtually absent, and we didn’t see her worried about the boys’ sickness when her neck was on the line. That means VS, you called it last week about the time frames. For having saved herself by performing in challenges maybe she should worry that she “and Dan are having a hard time” with the fish and that “La Mina can’t solve the puzzle, letting Casaya back in this?” Luckily her fate doesn’t depend on La Mina much longer. Casaya has the most complex dynamics I’ve seen in a tribe. Aras was shown to be in control at camp and during challenges. He has his priorities and lets them be known. It is neither completely positive or negative but it is as effective as anything we’ve seen in Casaya. He wants them “to work as a team” and knows he “shouldn’t yell at Bruce”. He lost control of the votes, how will he react? Danielle did redeem her edit after last week’s negative turn. When she said “I took control” and “decided for myself” it was a complete surprise. Her alliance had decided to boot an outsider. It didn’t involve her, yet she flipped the vote to prevent Aras being “set up for the win”. So few have done anything to save themselves, taking this course of action is almost unprecedented. Will she keep the upper hand? Shane is smart. Well, except when he swears on his son. I think we are only starting to see his real personality. He says: “Bobby, no other discussion” and was the only one to realize Bobby was planning to join the other side. When he is outnumbered, he tries to limit the damages and mend fences with BobDawg. In the end he got his way and if it really was a “throwaway vote that means nothing” why go with Aras? Wouldn’t Cirie be easier to explain. Could it be that he prefers to see if Aras is level-headed and will take the vote in stride or will he make a Lex of himself? It’s good to know if he’s your ally. Cirie has ensconced herself in the alliance. FP is right, she's #5! She managed to beat the announced boot order. Good for our narrator! Courtney is making quite a negative impression on her tribemates. To bring something from Insider, Bruce says he gets along with “one of the Courtneys but it’s the other 2 or 3 personalities she has” that he can’t stand. Does Bruce still see himself as a gift from heaven for his tribe? We never really met Bobby. The insider secret scene had him taking poses during the evening and calling the tribe the “West Coast Gangsta Tribe” with the others laughing and joining in. That we weren’t shown this as well as Courtney and Danielle guzzling down a bottle of wine before anyone else as he claims, shows how easy it is to create the perfect boot candidate. VS, I agree this season we have “the big boys that make the decisions”. So it could be a showdown of the leaders, Terry and Aras. Unless Danielle can keep control of the votes. Austin, Cirie and Sally have longevity but are the story tellers and can only win as followers. With leadership maybe becoming a theme, it would be surprising. Shane is part of the story but can he get more than F2?   Top

miyagimayday 14 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-04-06, 00:44 AM (EST) 87. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" >Incredibly insightful observations, once again, VS! >Well done! First let >me address this quote from >you: > >Shane “I promise I’m going to >get you to sixth” (and >again swearing on his “kid”. >I will be interested to >see if we finally see >someone “abide” by their promise >in that vein and of >all people, Shane!” > >I couldn't believe my ears when >I heard this...Shane promised him >sixth when WE think there >are only 4 in his >alliance. Obviously, there is an >alliance that's been made that >has not been shown...and that >bodes far better than one >that's revealed, right? I'm >betting they have indeed taken >Cirie into the fold... > >My take on the characters are >similiar to yours...but, frankly Courtney >is a piece of work, >she is a lunatic. I >see her as very controlling >and selfish and one who >doesn't know how to keep >her big mouth shut, definately >see her as the first >one out of the alliance. >As for Bruce, he's really >not got much either. While >Aras was being argumentative with >him, I agreed, Bruce's priorities >seem to revolve around him. >I don't see him bonding >to the Lunatic alliance, therefore >I see him having no >real game. Not long for >the show, imo. > >Cirie is definately working it and >doing quite well, and as >I suspect has weaseled her >way into the alliance. She's >very supportive to the powers >that be. > >Shane definately showed me some of >his true character last night. >Hopefully his detox is well >on its way by now. >He's a man that honors >his word, and I really >like that. He also was >shown to be a very >smart player with how he >voted for Aras at TC >with the throw away vote >and how he assessed the >situation. Very perceptive of Bob >Dawg as well, we were >indeed shown Bob saying that >he'd flip asap, which is >the rationale that Shane used >for proposing his boot. I >think that Aras was keenly >against the Bob Dawg boot >perhaps because he was on >his original tribe....I do wonder >about those original alliances and >the impact that they will >have on the end game...Jiffy >forewarned about this as well >in the beginning of the >show. > >AS for Aras, wow, what a >night for him. I love >that he's trying to be >the leader/elder of the tribe, >but he's going about it >a bit too forcefully, it's >almost as he's keeping a >tally as to who does >what....not good. He also thought >he got his way and >was able to convince the >group into voting Bruce, but >then was really blindsided at >TC. This will be a >huge eye opener for him. >He may have thought he >was in charge, but clearly >he can see now that >he is definately not calling >the shots. I suspect he'll >change and adapt which may >bode very very well for >his longevity. During the Surviver Live Talk Show, I think Bob said something about how Aras and Shane actually came to him (before TC , after the girls decided to take out Bob) and said something like how they changed back to voting Bob. And Shane and Aras were swearing (not liking the decision). So I think Aras knew about the situation; it was just not shown. But appearantly, both of them did not do anything to change the situation. (Maybe they don't want to mess up their "alliance"). Bob also said that he went to Aras (cuz' he bonded with him since day 1), and said to him that both of them together can "control" the game. But Aras didn't really (want to) change his plan (or alliance). Bob thinks that Aras might be "up to something", because Aras did complained to Bob about his alliance with these other crazy 3. (I think Bob is implying that Aras does have the control of things, but that's my take). And the reason why we never see anything happen between Bob and Shane is because Bob knew that they wouldn't get along, so he decided to stay away from Shane until he needs to talk to him. Good thread!! Love this thread! VS, love your analysis. And I took the side of Aras during the argument with Bruce.   Top

saucydiva 21 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-04-06, 03:19 AM (EST) 88. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" FP said: AS for Aras... I love that he's trying to be the leader/elder of the tribe, but he's going about it a bit too forcefully...I suspect he'll change and adapt VS said: Aras certainly received a character “yank” last night; not necessarily positive but toned down a bit with well placed confessionals and some sense to what his issues were about... At times I felt myself shifting in disagreeing or agreeing with him which is not necessarily a bad thing. This ep was terrific for Aras. I think what we are being shown is a young guy learning to be a wise man. He makes mistakes but he learns from them. The way he "calls to order" tribe meetings on the spot (like when the boys got home with their snails to find the fire out) made me think that I would really hate to be married to him -- mature people in mature relationships choose their moments a little more tactfully, I think -- but his honest confrontation of issues is refreshing. It's almost childlike, you could read on his face the thoughts and emotions struggling in his head, and I think we are going to see him learning to be more subtle as the game moves forward. I think it's interesting that he is a yoga instructor yet we do not see him doing yoga (unlike Courtney, who I think is doing yoga at least in part to try to catch Aras' eye but it's backfiring for her, bigtime). He seems to have heard or read a lot about harmony and the middle way but he's just now coming to understand how to LIVE it instead of just understanding it as an abstract. A couple visuals in the immunity challenge showed Aras in a very good light: --rowing purposefully to shore, embodying the primary strength and direction of his tribe --swimming to the surface with a skull puzzle piece raised victoriously, backlit by dazzling sunlight And that tribal council was so interesting, I bet the child Aras (and everyone) managed to say a bunch of lunkheaded, tactless things but he was presented as being rather wise, thoughtful, mature. I think this episode really laid out the issues of Aras' journey for us, and it is such a significant, almost mythical one, I'm definitely seeing him in the long-range end game. Another image, nothing to do with Aras, also struck me in this episode: when Probst planted the immunity stake in front of the winning La Mina mat, Austin picked it up and moved it just slightly beyond Sally's outstretched hand... One last comment: after ep4 I thought for sure that someone would start a Nash/game theory thread! Come on, who's up for it? saucydiva   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-04-06, 12:34 PM (EST) 89. "RE: Post Ep 5 thoughts" Very astute, Saucydive et al ! A similar journey MAY be in store for Danielle and hopefully, Shane. Danielle can be childlike, yet she has been shown to listen at times and change her actions (shoveling scene Ep4). We know Danielle has leadership potential, so maybe she will grow as a leader. Aras openly respects Terry and is clearly attempting to discover ways to gain some order. Terry has quiet, positive methods and he leads by example. Danielle & Shane are very negative and Aras is somewhere in the middle. Jeff's comment about Casaya having plenty of time to see what isn't working, makes me think that none of them have figured out that their leadership methods are ineffective. They've also had time to observe what IS working. All of them could learn from Terry's leadership. The spiritual journey for Aras is what intrigues me the most. I side with Bruce on the building of the rock garden. Bruce saw several people working on the fire, so he built something necessary for his own survival. Of all people, Aras should respect the importance of replenishing the soul. What I don't get from Aras is his enjoyment of this experience, unlike the Aras we saw in the first episode.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-05-06, 12:40 PM (EST) 90. "Tribal Dynamics" LAST EDITED ON 03-05-06 AT 12:44 PM (EST) Since SaucyDiva requested it, I'll try my hand at analyzing these tribes according to the Nash Theory: La Mina is the most docile N-Tribe since Chuay Gahn. As Veruca noted, we haven't heard a single comment about going against Terry anytime down the line. Sally wants to be a follower but may be forced to flip to another leader to save herself. Austin may be dangerous if he had an understanding with Aras back in their Vivero days. Outside of that, they all have been true followers. Casaya is a D-Tribe in my eyes. Aras is the camp life and challenge leader but he isn't alone controlling the votes. That afterall, is what Survivor leadership is about. Danielle has made a move that I feel is unprecedented, flipping her alliance votes when she wasn't in danger. If Aras had an agreement with Bobby, she knew she wouldn't make F2, so a preventive strike was in order. Courtney and Bruce are followers who at this time may be more loyal to Danielle than Aras. Cirie has to play as follower but Danielle better be careful with this schemer. She had Cirie's vote this time, it isn't certain it will again be the case next time. Shane earns a paragraph of his own. He is a half-breed, neither follower or leader. As expected, Shane proposed the boot choice but Danielle, not Aras, disposed at the last TC. Shane's allegiance is to Shane. Who gets his vote when it counts may decide the outcome of this season. So why is the ideal tribe in danger of going to merge outnumbered? They are a strong team, built both for physical and mental challenges. The food situation, until last episode, wasn't better at Casaya than La Mina. I proposed that La Mina was so focused on performance, it took the fun out of the game. Casaya was such an emotional team that they forgot about their hardship. Their emotions carried them to the challenge wins. A final editing note on Bobby who played as a follower to Aras. Seeing his interviews, he was quite the character we had been led to expect in the pre-season. That the editors decided they didn't need to feature him is a great sign for Danielle. Any positive edit Bobby could've received would have been a negative to Danielle, his executioner. His fantabulous nicknames alone could've made him sympathetic to the viewers! He said he had many confessionals where he mocked the "Braintrust" of the three GIRLS, SHANE (!), Danielle and Courtney. They all went down the toilet!   Top

Velcrohead 33 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-05-06, 09:11 PM (EST) 91. "Post Ep 5 thoughts" Note: I take the blame for the ramblings of a previous post (#81). Out of sheer idiocy, I failed to spot the password recovery link until after I reregistered. Mods, please feel free to do as you see fit. Great stuff! I almost feel redundant writing this now given how thorough everyone has been already. Still, if nothing else, the added bonus for me (and everyone else too, no doubt ) is that it cuts the length of my post! Two is the magic number I don’t know if this has cropped up before, but for me one of the underlying themes this season is partnership couples. Sure, you have the core alliances at La Mina and Casaya. What you also have (or did have) at a micro-level, however (the result I suspect of the original splitting of the castaways into four groups), is the following: Terry and Dan; Austin and Nick; Sally and Misty; Aras and Shane; Cerie and Melinda; Danielle and Courtney; Bruce and Bobby Superficially, there may not be much to it given that we’re talking about the natural tendency of people of the same age group and gender to gravitate towards one another, but I get the impression there’s more to it than that. There have been a lot of visuals this season of twosomes. Some examples: - Dan and Terry connecting and revealing to each other the secrets of their job backgrounds - Aras bringing Shane around when he wanted to quit early doors - Aras and Shane teaming up: explaining the rationale for who should be the first boot; confronting Danielle and Courtney over their alleged laziness - Cerie and Melinda the first to be on the chopping block at Casaya (Aras saying “it’s either you or you”) - Nick and Austin voting as a bloc. (Think back to Ep.3 when they were deciding whether to stick with the men or side with the women - Nick and Austin both getting sick after eating the beans - Bruce and Bobby’s night together in the outhouse - quite a few of the challenges have involved pair-ups - the blurb for next week’s episode – “one’s survivor’s fate lies in the hands of another.” Now you may view these all as just elements to the game in general, but I would argue it’s too much of a pattern not to ascribe some significance to. My guess would be that co-dependency may well drive the remainder of the storyline this season and that we should expect the original pairings to swap around as and when is necessary. LA MINA I would prefer to have heard more gameplay talk from Sally by now. Much like VS touching upon Terry reflecting on his team’s prospects rather than his own, Sally’s understandable preoccupation with the four-guy (soon to be fall guy?) alliance ought to have been extended to include how she might look to break it up to ensure survival. Instead, we’re given banal variations of the ‘grateful to still be around’ shtick that does nothing to forward her claims. I did, admittedly however, like her observation: “This is like the true measure of what you’re made of.” (The question is will she measure up?) I was also left wondering about the opening scene with her taking a walk with Nick. The conversation regarding how they both miss Ruth Marie seemed neither here nor there – it could have easily been left out – so the significance to its inclusion may lie with the hint of a bond forming between the two. That notion is perhaps underpinned by the immunity win celebrations, where they first to embrace each other. I make the observation not because I necessarily feel that this would lead to a hidden alliance but more to show another instance of the partnership theme. I remarked in my previous post that Nick wasn’t seen to affirm the same degree of regard for Terry that the other tribe members had (disapproving of Terry flipping to oust Ruth Marie over Sally, no obvious shots pining for him either). I’m merely thinking out loud here, but could this be a precursor to instigating a Terry boot, and he tries to rope in Sally and Austin only for it to backfire instead? The whole Nick and Austin beans-made-us-ill seemed to drag on longer than was really necessary. No doubt, as VS says, it was set up as a prelude to failure that, predictably, didn’t materialise in the immunity challenge. Still, I can’t resist the urge to throw in an anecdote about Austin and Nick going from being literally sick to their stomachs to metaphorically so later on. CASAYA Aras’ spike in this episode was twofold, as a narrator AND as a leader, both encouraging signs. There’s clearly a heavy investment to his edit; we’re meant to empathise with a somewhat reluctant leader, who because of his youthful age and relative inexperience, is struggling to balance the responsibilities that come with the role. There are actually some nice dichotomies to his character being fleshed out too: occasionally impetuous, often measured; at times irrational yet incredibly self-aware just the same; easily frustrated (with others) but determined (to make it work); thoughtful, if a little insensitive. What I particularly like are the moments of introspection which make him more relatable to the audience on a personal level. Indeed, it almost feels like a rites of passage tale is being told here. (Saucydiva, I like the two visuals you mentioned of Aras at IC – it fits in nicely). Courtney has now succeeded in annoying all the men in her tribe, and dare I say it, most of us among the viewing audience as well. When she said to Bobby during their argument over the bottle of wine, “I don’t have the energy for this”, I found myself thinking, that’s fine, because I’m tired of you already. More seriously though, it is noteworthy that despite cutting such an exasperating figure, nobody entertained the notion of voting her out; presumably it means her original alliance with Shane, Aras and Danielle, remains intact. VS, I know you feel differently but I do detect an undercurrent to Shane and Courtney that belies their outwardly uneasy relationship. There have been several instances now of what you might liken to the petty squabbling of an old married couple (but) who usually make up afterwards. Maybe at stretch, you could even it call it affection. In this episode, for example, you had to smile knowingly (my long-suffering girlfriend did) during the scene when they were sitting around the campfire discussing the boot. To wit: Shane admonishes Courtney: “What are you babbling about?” Later: “Then why didn’t you tell me about it an hour ago…..Courtneeeeey.” Courtney, rather timidly: “Don’t yell at me.” Shane, defensively: “I’m not…I’m just yelling in general. And stop with….. We’re talking.” Courtney placating him, perhaps even sounding apologetic: “You were right” (about Bobby). Who would have thought that Danielle was a player? Just to add to what’s been covered, I thought the smart play by her wasn’t so much in flipping to vote Bobby off after they had agreed to the Bruce boot campaigned by Aras but, rather, involving Shane in the plans and appealing to his ego and sense of self-worth in the process. What intrigues me is that she thought she could change his mind and not Aras’. Or was it a case of deliberately keeping Aras out of the loop? To add to the mix: Danielle sticking up for Bruce at TC. What was the motivation behind it? Pro-Bruce or anti-Aras? And as you say VS, FP and michel, does this hint of a power struggle to come? With regards to Cerie: Me, from my first post: She’s got the gift of the gab and what she says--whilst occasionally putting her foot in it--throughout the game is going to be fun. VS: Cerie is extremely consistent and quite good with the gift for gab. Hey, does this mean (hopefully) that Outfrontgirl wasn’t the only one to have read my post. Anyway, I continue to note that what face time she has is heavily skewed to confessionals over actual tribal interaction. I have no idea if this what the editing is trying to convey but other than being quip-friendly are we meant to infer that she is the one sitting in the real seat of power? That she’s the person pulling the strings, shaping things from the shadows, the kingmaker and others haven’t quite realised it yet? Bruce and Cerie juxtapose quite well in the tribe dynamic. Both are essentially outsiders--Cerie has actually commented on this herself before—but the difference is Cerie is willing to ingratiate herself, if not overtly so. Bruce, on the other hand, shows neither the inclination nor the desire to. TC illustrated this perfectly; Cerie currying favour by saying how wrong it was to have drunk the wine (directed at Bobby but implicating Bruce by extension) whilst Bruce went on the offensive when Aras brought him to book. I don’t doubt the sincerity of his apology thereafter to the tribe but I do think he resents being put out in the first place. FP, I completely agree that Cerie, in contrast, is doing a fine job of worming her way into the inner sanctum of power (and without the others cottoning in on to that fact). Just imagine what she could/would do once she gets there. The ‘probably meaningless but amusing if nothing else’ moments: - Danielle arms wrapped tightly around Shane whilst they were sleeping. - Danielle treading on an object on the way back from IC and stumbling slightly. And more Jeff speak, because you gotta love it too: “GO, LA MINA!” (So good, he said it twice. I swear he was acting as their cheerleader) “Shane falls down.” (can he get up again?) “Both guys whacking at it” (for that’s how the season will pan out?) ¬VH¬   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-05-06, 10:32 PM (EST) 92. "Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" Saucydiva and Michael, thank you for bringing up the Nash stuff. I was looking at posting something last week, but as VS tends to wait to the Pickum Challenge I just had to hold off one more week, until as VS promised, Casaya went to tribal council. I tend to focus on how the editing reveals the leaders, half-breeds, and followers, with special consideration to how the editing conflicts the actual going-ons at different tribes. However, the ability for a DAW to play the most appropriate game in terms of his tribe edit is the most important factor. Before we get to the Casaya debacle I want to propose a few thoughts on La Mina. I must agree with Michael that this is an N-Tribe. In reality this is probably less of an N-Tribe than what we have seen, but the editing has really shown this as a tribe united under Terry, and at a loss without him. Without this editing I would expect that Austin would have a very good chance. His manipulation of Terry two episodes ago was remindful of Chris’s work on Sarge in Vanuatu, but the supporting editing gives me serious pause. If Nash has an influence on editing I have difficultly believing that anyone in La Mina, outside of Terry, has a chance of winning; they are not playing the appropriate game. Dan and Nick are purely pawns in the game and while they could last for a while, their end is pre-determined. Sally still has a shot, but if she were the winner I feel the editing would have shown this less as an N-Tribe. Sally’s game just isn’t appropriate considering her tribal dynamics. Now Casaya is a far more interesting story. Michael made the astute observation that this is a D-Tribe. IMHO this is far too generous for this tribe. Bruce was edited as the survival leader, Shane proposed the first alliance, Aras has been the diplomatic leader, and, at least after the last episode, Danielle is the strategic leader. I believe this is an L-Tribe with most of the players (Shane, Danielle, and Bruce) being half breeds in the sense that while the have the ability to lead they don’t have the personality. Courtney has been edited as a lunatic, so I don’t know where she falls out. Aras is different as has been edited with having the ability to lead, but without the will (I will get to this a bit later.). Cerie is definitely a follower. The distinction whether this is an M-Tribe, D-Tribe, or an L-Tribe is important. If it is a D-Tribe or an M-Tribe Cerie would have to be the obvious winner from this tribe. Cerie has a certain Vecepia vibe to her, however, if it is an L-Tribe than the winner will be determined by random chance. We have seen only one L-Tribe winner and that was Jenna M and she was portrayed, in many observers’ eyes, as a very controversial winner. KOB Fan used to always say use The Nash Equilibrium in context with the editing. Several years ago I saw an interview with Francis Coppola regarding The Godfather. Coppala’s intent was that the three brothers, Michael, Sonny, and Freudo represented the three aspects of the Brando character. Michael was the brain and ruthlessness, Sonny was the violent emotion, and Freudo was the heart. I see Casaya as the tribe with players each embodying certain of these certain characteristics. On their own they can not win, but as a combined character they are stronger than their parts. Who according to Nash who will win? The only player who has a shot in La Mina is Terry, but this is problematic. The player that La Mina expects to flop is Sally, they kept her, the player Casaya expects to flop is Bobby, and they voted him off. Terry will have to overcome impossible odds to win, I just don’t see him having the numbers to win, but he does have the secret II . Out of Casaya I think we are looking at a random and possibly unsatisfying winner. I am curious to see how the second half of the season plays out. Our winner should either emerge as a leader or a follower, because half- breeds never win. I tend to agree with members of this board that Aras may emerge as the leader of Casaya. During most previous seasons we have had more obvious themes. Aras’s emergence as a leader from this incredibly dysfunctional tribe could be the prevalent theme of this season. As I stated well up in this post, Aras is the only current player that has the personality to lead, but lacks the will. I expect he will garner that will, but we may not like it.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-06-06, 08:53 AM (EST) 93. "RE: Comments" Let me start off by saying bravo on everyone's postings!! My treat (along with watching the show) is reading what everyone has to say. Unfortunately, sometimes I am late to the party in reading and then I can only state that I thoroughly enjoy seeing everyone's point of view as editing is meant for individual observations which is one of the reasons I tend to jump in and ask for a point of view (Bruce vs. Aras) from time to time. Unfortunately I am completely confined this season to this thread this season as I have been warned there is information (thank you for the warning) that unfortunately I cannot even enjoy the talents of the SOTS or the fun in the boot thread. I_Coritheminion, welcome aboard or should I say welcome back and wonderful observations. I believe you and Velcrohead are one and the same then? I also find it interesting how the "nicer" folk do tend to escape the early wrath of Tribal Council and it makes for an interesting sociological debate that those who could be the most threatening tend to make decent headway in this game. My only theory on that is in a situation of a group of strangers, those who provide a calmness or assist in the cohesiveness of a group are valuable to the "sanity" of a tribe and it is later, rather than sooner, the realization kicks in they are as threatening as an athletic powerhouse! Socially wise, they provide a balm in rather grating circumstances and that is valued highly but we know better don't we Unfortunately with Survivor editing, Dan does not appear to be one of "those" as his edit has been sadly lacking as OFG comments on though I had hoped perhaps I was wrong but at this point, nothing has changed my mind. This corresponds also with the twosomes highlighted in LaMina (and as Velcrohead (or you ) discuss about all the pairings. Terry, Sally and Austin have come out way ahead in editing over their counterparts. I am sadly lacking in weekly boot discussions so Dan or Nick are interchangeable for me with respect to who goes when. All the foreshadowing of "merger" tends to make one think it would be happening shortly; I can only assume that LaMina's dwindling "health" would see Dan's demise before Nick (the visual of Dan hitting his head on the boat and his breathing heavily visually stuck with me) and Austin seems to have some notable influence on how the votes are playing out. Since Terry and Dan's handshake and bond were put forth to us to remember, that too, seems to have to be played out accordingly. There was no pivotal scene of Austin and Nick affirming their promise though we know they are a pair so I would suspect that Dan's days are numbered and it will somehow be related to Terry. I do not dissect the other information to know if the merger happens this week or not, I simply go by the episode and what it may foreshadow but I "feel" Terry and Dan need to be split up without Casaya really being involved as part of the voting although I don't necessarily believe that Terry betrays Dan but he is integral to the events. Sally's game play talk (or lack thereof) is confined to her vulnerability indeed. Her story (at this time) merely IS surviving the "men's club" at this point though I do feel there could be a future meeting with the women of Casaya so I do not think she is a casualty before they merge. The question is how she fleshes out once she is there. If her edit is static at that time then her story WAS all about breaking up the men's club and surpassing them. michel, very nice posting on the past and the journeys which you know I am a fan of as I do feel the story is what holds the winner as opposed to the winner holding the story necessarily Thank you for your perspective about agreeing with Aras in the argument as I am taking mental note on these types of argument and who comes out ahead on this as I see miyagimayday also agreed with Aras. Interesting fact michel about Shane and Aras not drinking but I still have to wonder if Shane (despite not drinking) would have been that "quiet" if a woman would have taken the bottle. Shane is a very emotional man about women (except Cerie who seems to have found a nice way to placate him) You may be entirely correct that it meant nothing to Shane since he didn't drink but it lurks at the back of my mind that if a woman did what Bobby/Bruce did, Shane may still have found his voice. I see quite a few observations about Courtney and Shane and there being a relationship. Relationships on this show are obviously prevalent of all types. I do not quite get the same feeling there is a hidden alliance between the two; perhaps more of two very expressive and outspoken people that when they succeed they express it better with each other and same when disagreeing. They DO indeed sound like a old, married couple and I think it is very easy for Shane to vent on her as she allows it. I had mentioned in a past post that despite of all Shane's "bravado" I think he possibly has many issues about women and a strong woman who knows her mind will be hard for him to handle. Courtney appears "easy" for Shane to target. FP, Courtney has obviously affected you It seems that Courtney's "character" has made quite an impression on many of us. This psychotic alliance is certainly being held together by a thread isn't it and in true Survivor editing, these four should not end the game together and I honestly "feel" that Shane may be true to his pledge on his son as there just seems to be too much invested in that pledge (naturally it could end up like Twilla where it is not kept) for that NOT to play out somehow. Saucydiva your addition of visuals on Aras certainly is cementing that he is being invested which bodes well for him (as we know from all the visuals that focused on Danni) How far Aras has come from the first episode with his "hand exercise" to being the practical player who, as you noted, has not involved himself in his yoga (unlike Courtney with her spirituality and Bruce's spirituality) As he even stated, he feels sometimes like the oldest member on his tribe and as you stated there appears to have been a quick maturing of Aras which is very positive in terms of character editing. That also assists in the undercurrent of "leadership" which surviette you expand upon. I most definitely agree that this theme is a big part of this season especially with how these tribes are faring under these leaderships. Terry, by all accounts a very capable leader who is being listened to and very warmly received is leading a tribe that is dwindling. Aras who appears to be the leader of this inept but functioning tribe finds himself questioned and questioning his tribe but in true irony, they are perserving. I will be eager to see how this "coup" pans out that the women appear to be devising. I will also be interested in seeing if the PRIOR relationships of the older men, younger men and younger women are still connected (Bruce, Terry, maybe Dan if still around) (Sally, Danielle, Courtney and let's not forget Cerie emphasizing that she was surprised that she was on the "older" woman's team) (Austin, Nick, Aras) OR we find new relationships (let's not forget how Shane stated he was too young for his older male tribe and didn't relate to them; perhaps his concern that Bobby would join up with the young men were not a problem, it would be interesting to see if Shane finds a common ground) While I have absolutely no talent in Nash game theory, I do love reading the assessments on it and applaud those of you who are able to do so michel, WLR and others please keep it up as it provides a very analytical assessment in the midst of the "flowerly stuff"   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-06, 11:52 AM (EST) 96. "RE: Comments" I "feel" Terry and Dan need to be split up without Casaya really being involved as part of the voting although I don't necessarily believe that Terry betrays Dan but he is integral to the events. I'm relieved to see you post this, VS, because I've been feeling the same way for quite awhile. I think you said in another post that you got a sense Shane and Courtney could leave one right after the other. I have the same impression of Nick and Austin. They seem virtually interchangeable to me (right down to their diarrhea ), except that Austin "represents" both of them in the editing as we hear much more from him. But I cannot see these two diverging in any way in terms of what is to come. I really feel that what happens to one is going to happen to the other as well, in terms of how long they last and/or how they exit the game. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-06, 08:55 AM (EST) 94. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" LAST EDITED ON 03-06-06 AT 09:05 AM (EST) Rosie: That was a great analysis! I agree that Austin is possibly not the follower he is portrayed to be. He may be waiting the merge to make his move. Sally as a follower, also could thrive post-merge if the leaders go at it. Maybe it is a generous view to call Casaya a D-Tribe. You do make a good case for the L-Tribe. An L-Tribe crumbles at merge and Terry would gather the loose ends. I don't see signs of that but there could still be surprises in store! I don't consider Shane a leader because he doesn't have charisma. He proposes but cannot dispose. Bruce has survival tricks that are good when you lead scouts but, thankfully, Lil isn't there! He is without an alliance and cannot control the votes. A leader also needs foresight. Bruce didn't even think of getting rid of the empty bottle! There is the question as to whether Aras and Danielle are really leaders. They seem to lead in different directions but haven't yet taken aim at each other. Real leaders would, I'll give you that. Could they also realize they need each other's qualities? I loved that Godfather analogy! Cirie does have potential but she needs conflicts between the leaders. Could this immature tribe bring us the first male-female shared leadership? Can leadership be shared? They do have many kids in their care! A couple has conflicts but the ones that work agree for the important stuff. Is that still a D-tribe? ETA: I apologize Veruca as my post seem to ignore your very accurate summation of last week. We were writting at the same time.! Thank you four your feed-back.   Top

architecturegirl 227 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 03-06-06, 11:22 AM (EST) 95. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" LAST EDITED ON 03-06-06 AT 11:28 AM (EST) Great analysis guys! Here's a few observations from my end: VS - I agree with your initial post's analysis of the editing this year vs. last year. Danni's edit last season was warranted because of the way she played the game, we were made to feel how they other players, and Jeff as he stated, felt - like she came out of nowhere. That wont be the case this season. The winner this year will receive face time, but it wont be one of the "negative" influences. I get the feeling of a "journey the winner takes" edit. Based on editing, who I dont think will win: Terry is a Tom that loses - had Tom's team lost as much as Terry's is, he never would have won. And we havent been shown a personal strategy from him. His strength will get him far, but I think we'll see him in the end crumble without his team like they have been shown to crumble without him. I feel bad for Austin and Sally, I think that if their team had won more, that they would have final two written all over them. They really are smart players. Unfortunately thats Survivor, and outplay is part of managing to outlast. I agree with everyone else - Dan and Nick are not long for the game, for the same reasons every one else has listed above. Bruce just isnt getting an edit that evokes any feeling from the audience. Cerie is a sleeper who is playing the best way she can. She HAS to play under the radar, and she doesnt have the physical strength to contribute in that way. My feeling with her is that she will go very far, but I just dont see her being able to win. She's your typical #4 survivor. If you go back and look at who ended up fourth, for the most part (with a few exceptions - i.e. Sue Hawk) they fall into one of two categories - the quiet, under the radar player that followed others, or the "dependable", non-leader. Most of them are likeable players that dont make waves. Cerie is going to make herself dependable (an easy task compared to the rest of her tribe!), she's the most likeable person of her group, yet she's under the radar. I'd bet money that she ends up fourth. Shane and Courtney - they truly have a Margaret/Judd relationship. Yet this season Courtney is getting the worse edit. Neither of them will win I dont think, but I think Shane is the FAR smarter player, and will go much farther than Courtney. She'll end up like Jerri - taken until they are able to safely get rid of her, but she'll be the first of the five to go, just because she drives everyone nuts. VS - to address your Aras vs. Bruce argument question from earlier. I apparently am one of the few that was on Bruce's side in this argument. And here's why - I felt like Aras of all people should have understood and appreciated the gesture on Bruce's part. He was trying to help the tribe in his own way, one Aras should have totally understood. In addition it seems like Aras is getting on absolutely everyone's case (other than Cerie and Shane) for not working when and how he wants them to. I understood his rationale, but I felt he needed to at least approach it in a different manner. In the context of the editing and the game though, I think that this was supposed to solidify Bruce's alienation from the group, and Aras more than anyone so far has been shown to speak for the group. Now for Shane. I have gotten a slightly different feeling than others with regard to Shane. I think he's one of the few times we'll see someone getting a Kathy O'Brien edit. She was universally disliked at the beginning, and totally turned that around at the end to become one of the most loved, best players ever. I dont think Shane will be that extreme of a turn around, but I think we ARE seeing a turnaround from a completely emotional jerk to a smart, more likeable (although not 100% likeable) player. We have to remember the MONSTER detox this man went through at the beginning - honestly, I cant believe he's turned around as much as he has to this point. That was a big part of his craziness. Now we're seeing a still somewhat irritable person (although I think anyone would have a hard time not being snotty to crazy Courtney!) but he's got his head more in the game now, and honestly, I'm starting to like him. Early on, I think it was BrownRoach(?) said something in a thread about Jeff Probst making comments about liking Cerie and Shane's characters the most. At first I found this very hard to believe with regard to Shane, but now I totally see why Jeff would be amused by, and like Shane. Bruce and Bobby - I just have to say "HOW STUPID can you be???" This is Survivor! People skills plays a HUGE role. I mean, you know you're on a volatile, HIGHLY emotional tribe - and you do something like that?!?!?!? Are you kidding me??? Thats like begging to be voted off. I know you're mad, but suck it up. They totally could have capitalized on the "We had to sleep in the outhouse because you guys left us no room in the shelter" and gotten sympathy, but they completely negated that by making one of the stupidest moves in history (right up there with Clarence and the beans, but nowhere near as dumb as Ian or Rafe's final three chokes). You're already an outsider - never make a move that pushes you even farther out. Both of them deserve to go home. Not that I feel strongly about that or anything. Finally, I'm finding Jeff's challenge commentaries this season VERY leading. He's obviously rooting for certain people in some of them (or wanting us to). In episode four he was giving all sorts of kudos to Sally, far more than anyone else - that alone convinced me she wasnt going anywhere soon. I think these commentaries are going to give us a lot of clues this season. Thanks to VS for posting them verbatim for us! I too noticed the seemingly out of place comments about Ruth Marie between Nick and Sally - we weren't shown any relationship with Ruth Marie from either of them, why include that comment? I agree that it was meant to show a bonding between Sally and Nick. She's already been shown to have formed a bond with Austin (I think this is stronger than we've been shown in actuality), and now she's working on Nick. This is how she'll outlast most of her alliance - we're being shown that subtly. The other wierd shot was of Danielle appearing to step on something on the way back to camp, but it turned out to be nothing? Why show that? I'm stumped on that one. I'm also wondering why were shown just the boys getting sick at La Mina, and a lot of time devoted to that - but no indication of why it was just them? Was it edited to make us feel sorry for them, and thus a possibly negative portrayal of them over-indulging compared to Sally and Dan was edited out? Well, there's my two cents.   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-06-06, 03:48 PM (EST) 97. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" A while back, I touched on some of the controversies. The Spear - This issue has seemingly disappeared. However, Super Terry's team would not be in such distress if the team had been able to eat fish all this time. I'm sure it has been mentioned (probably by Terry) but we're no longer hearing about it. In terms of editing, Sally is still being shown in a better light than could have been and the issue is gone at least for now. AG - Although I felt sorry for them, I thought Austin & Nick's sickness was highly comical. Also, if you think about it you could blame starvation, not overindulgence. If you blame starvation, you could go back to Sally & the spear. I don't necessarily blame Sally for lack of food. But, if I was the one starving & then getting sick on beans, then I might. Anyway,it was also belaboured in order to show that LaMina is the team that's in "dire straits". The Filtered Water - Bruce was responsible for boosting the strength of his team, but his positive role was only highlighted for the one episode. He is increasingly being shown in a negative light & his role as a leader of Casaya is not being supported through the editing. He could stand a chance with a girls' "coup", but I think his edit would need a more positive tone for us to have confidence in his longevity. Who is Crazier? - (As in, is it Courtney or Shane?) AG, I agree and have maintained that Shane isn't as obnoxious as he has been portrayed. I'm not sure how you can force someone else to swear on your kid, but for some reason I guess we're supposed to concur that this is an honourable agreement. I have enjoyed watching Shane & I would bet money that he'll return to another Survivor as one of the favourites. Bobby referred to Courtney as "one of the three most annoying people in the history of the world" and so I think we're meant to agree.There you go FP! The comical nature of the relationship between Shane & Courtney still has everyone talking. Cirie was the impactful voice of reason when it became necessary & so she might diffuse some of the potential fireworks from here on out. I guess we'll see. The Revealed F4 Alliance - Still remains to be seen whether it was smart. One of them could have easily been voted off, with the votes coming down to a 3-2-1-1 split. It could have been a close call for Aras or Courney! It was Aras who revealed the alliance, though. To Drink or Not to Drink - Obviously, it was not cool to drink the wine. However, the group of four have been running the show & Bobby knew he didn't fit in & he thought he didn't stand a chance against them. I think at that point he thought nothing was changing his circumstances. The editors could have turned this around though. IMHO BOBBY won that reward for the team. The beheading of the fish was reminiscent of Brandon chopping the rope & maybe it could have been featured as such. Instead, we heard everyone whining about the wine that they all worked hard to win. It was an extremely negative edit for both Bobby & Bruce. Bobby took the heat off of Bruce, so that literally might be the end of the wine. It's been difficult for me to find time to contribute too much, but I have read and enjoyed every post. Thanks again VS & company!   Top

emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-06, 04:22 PM (EST) 98. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" Rosie, just give me a refresher on the different LETTER TRIBES...I can never keep them straight!! I have my ideas, but I need a little help!! VS--I was on Aras' side in the "argument" even at the time it I was watching it (but DEFINITELY by the end of the show I was on Aras' side for many reasons) I too thought the "argument" was heavily edited. I wrote down in my notes that I thought Aras WAS SHOWN as handling the "argument" pretty well...which tends to support almost everyone's comments about Aras getting a pretty good edit re: his longevity. He really is hesitant but I think trying very hard and that will be his story...will he succeed? and is winning this game the only success that will be enough? Also Shane's words re: his Aras vote "Don't worry this is a throw away vote" They didn't have to be shown...I think they were shown to place Aras in sort of an underdog light (not knowing what was going on) but also as a strong player that can withstand a vote (if Shane's vote was for Danielle or Courtney I think they would get all "crazy" about it) I think this was Shane's thinking in his vote and it shows I think how close they really are...I think they may have made a F2 pact...but of course it wasn't/won't be shown...remember we have seen Shane swearing on his son to almost everyone except ARAS (I know not Cirie but she until this last ep. was not in his alliance and he didn't need to) I was also against Danielle at TC when she stuck up for Bruce about respect..even though Danielle was probably right, I thought her statements were more of an attack on her alliance mate (for now anyway) Aras and a strategic move to make Bruce look better over her boot choice Bobby.... rather than her true feelings about Bruce and what respect he does and should get... Definitely we are being set up for Aras v. Danielle, we won't see them openly arguing like Courtney v. Shane. Rather, I think we'll see them working for different things behind the other's back. Handcrafted by RollDdice   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-06, 04:50 PM (EST) 99. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" Also Shane's words re: his Aras vote "Don't worry this is a throw away vote" They didn't have to be shown...I think they were shown to place Aras in sort of an underdog light (not knowing what was going on) but also as a strong player that can withstand a vote I think showing that had more to do with Shane than with Aras, as Shane was put in the position of having to decide between second-choice Bruce and first-choice Bobby who swore on his son. They would have shown Shane "talking" his vote no matter who he voted for, to heighten the suspense, imo. Some things in the editing are included solely for the episode at hand and I think that was an example. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

montanagirl 69 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-06-06, 05:17 PM (EST) 100. "RE: The HII in Terry's pants" A quick skim of this wonderful but daunting thread didn't reveal this to me. Apologies if it's already been hashed out. Terry had a very long interview regarding the HII and the fact that it was hidden in his blue cargo pants. It seemed to me to be a very deliberate and longer than needed scene. And he said that he didn't think anyone could find it there...another leading edit. I think that this means that someone on his tribe will find the HII in Terry's stuff. What do the pros think?? Cheers! -montanagirl   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-06, 05:30 PM (EST) 101. "RE: The HII in Terry's pants" Hi, mg, always nice when you drop by. I saw the transcript of that in the Insider and I don't know how/if the Insider clips relate to the general editing, or if VerucaSalt or anyone else has developed a theory about that. If that scene were shown during the regular episode it might be significant, but most of the audience doesn't see the Insider clips. So maybe, but I don't know... Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

montanagirl 69 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-07-06, 02:33 PM (EST) 107. "RE: The HII in Terry's pants" Hi BR! - Aww Thanks!! I guess I have so much Survivor input that I can't remember where it all comes from! LOL I still think this has some merit...if only for the spoiling community...as they know we all pour over the insider stuff every week. We'll just have to see how it plays out! One more week of testing my other editing theory before I come back to post about it. It has to do with the photos they put in the gallery at cbs.com. Most likely I'll add it to the Intro video thread. -montanagirl   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-08-06, 10:37 AM (EST) 109. "RE: The HII in Terry's pants" MG, I reread that clip, and I'm not sure what it might mean about someone finding the II, but one thing that did occur to me is that Terry will probably not have to use the II to save himself this week, as he also said this: It's my little ace in the hole. I do not believe I will need it here. I will use it - I will have to use it most likely after the merge, and again my optimistic goal is to not have to use it at all. It would have been typical, and ironic, to edit that quote into the regular show if it turned out that Terry would need to use the II before the merge. Just a thought. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

montanagirl 69 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 03-09-06, 04:02 PM (EST) 113. "RE: The HII in Terry's pants" I agree BR. It would have had much greater significance if that blurb had been edited in the show. I watched it again today...hoping to catch a glimpse of Dan in the water behind him listening in on his confessional...but to no avail! LOL Looking forward to tonight! -montanagirl   Top

Whole Lotta Rosie 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-07-06, 07:11 PM (EST) 108. "RE: Nash Equilibrium - Exile Island" Emydi, N-Tribe is a one leader tribe D-Tribe is a two leader tribe M-Tribe is a multi-leader tribe L-Tribe is the leaderless   Top

redciv23 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 03-07-06, 02:39 AM (EST) 102. "Coconut chopping..." Am I the only person that has picked up on the totally obvious "coconut chopping". Seems like whenever you see someone chopping a coconut they are the next one to get the their torch blown out. Look at Caryn, they showed her trying to break into a coconut with her machete and she was gone that episode. The case has been the same with many Survivors. In fact, come to think of it I don't think I ever saw a winner chopping a coconut. Thats what I love about Mark Burnett and his editors, if you pay close attention you can figure out who wont make it to the end. As far as this season of Survivor, I think its the best yet..I cant wait to see how the end comes through. I'm going to meet Aras saturday, I will let you guys know what I think of him as I think he might just win this game.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-07-06, 08:16 AM (EST) 103. "RE: Coconut chopping..." Great commentary everyone, I'm glad to see our thread is picking up a bit and per the custom, I think a new thread will be in order when the merger occurs which will probably occur very shortly in light of all the foreshadowing of same made last week michel, never a need to apologize I am the worst offender in reading second and posting first since I have everything already done. Since I find that my comments have at times repeated others then that just makes us in agreement! BR - I am glad you felt the same way by the feel of the edit with respect to Terry and Dan since you and I often see eye to eye on these things Nick and Austin eh? Definitely a possibility and with numbers, you are more than likely right although I am perhaps hoping that Austin may outlive a member or two of Casaya before his demise. Since my goal is always long term players and therefore end game players, I get muddled with when someone would go but if LaMina is forced to merge with lower numbers, Nick's edit would dictate his leaving prior to his tribe mates. Wishful thinking on my part, it would be nice to see if Austin can make a bit of headway (since he does seem to have the power of persuasion) and maybe outlast Bruce at the very least (Bruce's edit being too flat for my liking, whereas Austin does have a measure of a better edit) ag, glad to see you in here and even a few posts are welcome I'm glad you chimed in about seeing Bruce's perspective in the argument since the majority appears to have favored Aras. What I find interesting about this argument between Aras and Bruce is that realistically, BOTH of them could have handled it differently and BOTH of them had valid points. What is ALSO interesting is that some of you honed in on the fact that of ALL people, one would suspect that Aras would understand Bruce's need for an area to feel centered or at peace AND we just saw prior to this Bruce being shown as a worker AND working side by side with Aras. What happened? My "editing opinion" is this. Forget Aras' involvement as of right now and only focus on what the edit showed of Bruce. Bruce was shown to value his own needs before the tribe (we know that essentially that isn't true; Bruce was shown prior to that as working for the tribe) Bruce was also a main feature in failing miserably at the challenge and being a part of the wine drinking. He went from "savior" to "failure" His persona (to the audience) is being changed which doesn't bode well for him on the surface. There was also no real defense by anyone else about Bruce. The situation involving the events surrounding his being saved were more about Bobby being the one to leave as opposed to people wanting to save Bruce. His edit has been mainly flat; he went from hero to zero. Whether some of his points were valid, on the whole his edit took a down turn and that is not good for him. This is indeed why editing is important. Surviette, you mention the "spear incident" I recall after that happened and how Austin glossed over it the realization was that Sally was NOT meant to look bad and the spear was barely acknowledged; only that they were hungry. WE know that spear would keep them fed but the editing does not want Sally to look bad which was good for Sally. This is the same concept with Bobby. I had mentioned in Palau that Katie's lack of challenge prowess was never really focused upon which was good for her longevity. The same situation occurred with Rafe when he failed in the team challenge. Situations such as this I'm sure are talked about but the editing doesn't want that person's failure to be highlighted because they are a character that will there for some time and it isn't relevant to their story. Bobby WAS the hero at that challenge but the wine and his attitude was the feature and this is solely because the audience accepted his being booted. The editing needed to show Bobby worse than better so while we watched Bobby make that win for them, what was REALLY featured was Bobby taking and drinking the wine, Bobby telling Bruce he would jump at merge while telling Shane he wouldn't and so forth. *We* have to accept why Bobby was booted so the negatives outweighed the positives. On the other side, we have Aras. emydi, I had a feeling you would side with Aras What I find notable (and was mentioned earlier) is that aside from his hand exercise in the first episode, we have yet to see him participating in his yoga. Frankly, I'll be curious to find out after the show if Aras did use some time to indulge in a big part of his life and were not shown. If this is indeed the case, we are meant to see Aras being portrayed as someone who has to put aside his needs in order to survive albiet the fact that he may need to learn a little more tact . Courtney certainly is visually shown practicing her yoga and we are also shown Courtney being edited as flighty and inept at times around the camp. As we all stated, Aras did advise the audience that he should have handled his argument better and there are also no contradictions to what he says and what he does (i.e. he talks about work but we see him not working) so we can at least say Aras "puts his money where his mouth is" Aras has fleshed out and this does bode well for him as with Danielle's turn of events in character. I'd like to see another episode of Danielle though. mg, welcome to yes, the daunting thread which requires a lot of patience lol. I welcome Insider commentary because as we know, what ISN'T shown can be just as important as what IS shown. I tend to agree with BR's thoughts on this. Now, this is not to say that the idol in Terry's back pocket isn't going to be highlighted because I do recall his mentioning this a few times. My thoughts are that this is precisely what will happen. When he needs to, he will pull that idol right out of his back pocket! And who can forget the emphasis he made on THROUGH the final four. In terms of foreshadowing, I will be smiling if indeed we see his arm reach to his back pocket at the final four Tribal Council redciv23 I see welcome is also in order Very interesting observation about the coconut chop and I always tell people to keep an eye on their theories (i.e. opening credits, eyemail theory and so forth) and how they pan out because with this show, you never quite know With heading into this week's show, I will be keeping the proverbial eye on a few items of characterization. Dipping down from a high visibility, spike in visibility where there was practically no depth to visibility, continued fleshing out of character and continued "character type" The merger brings out new dynamics and sometimes a few surprises but in general, the characters are still who they are; the circumstances just change.   Top

architecturegirl 227 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 03-07-06, 09:28 AM (EST) 104. "RE: Second Viewing" Well, I watched the episode last night for the second time, this time stopping and rewinding, etc. I have missed Corvis' confessional analysis this week, so I decided to try and do my own, along with noting how often different survivors spoke in the episode to get an idea of who was truly getting how much screen time, etc. I wont steal Corvis' thunder and do a confessional analysis, or even think I could come close to doing one as well as he does - but I will say this: The only person this episode to have more positive confessionals as opposed to "D" confessionals was Cerie. After taking my notes, WOW - I knew that Aras was very present in this episode, but I was blown away when I realized just how much this was HIS episode. Other than Shane, Aras had by far the most speaking time of anyone, at both challenges he was the one that spoke for the group, and he had a LOT more confessional time than anyone else. The one that surprised me was Sally - she actually was more visible this episode than I think we all thought. She actually a lot of speaking time Both Terry and Nick (other than Nick's bowel issues) were fairly invisible this episode compared to everyone else. The other thing I noted was at the reward challenge several shots were dedicated to Cerie, Danielle, and Courtney exchanging looks, hugging after their win, etc. I hadnt overtly noticed that before - I think you're right VS, we're going to see an emergence of the women now. The other thing that I was shocked by - was the shot of the people in the shelter sleeping. It has been noted in past seasons that you can tell alliances, etc by who sits next to who in tribal council and/or sleeping arrangements. The shot of the people sleeping showed - Cerie and Shane cuddling! His arm is under her head, and her head and hand are on his chest/stomach! It then pans to Courtney - sleeping alone, or at least not shown with anyone near. I was shocked by the Cerie/Shane thing though. Perhaps they have a bond we havent been shown? This would explain Shane's including her as part of his numbers now... As a slight clarification - I dont think that Bruce was shown in a positive light at all really, I just felt that in the argument I felt Aras over-reacted, etc. I was turned off by Aras's reaction and comments more than I thought Bruce was in the right. Usually a winner is shown both positive and negative, as a rounded personality with their faults coming through at some point throughout the show. Aras had a lot of face time this episode, and not all of it was good. I think that actually bodes well for him, because it was balanced, as opposed to Bobby and Bruce. Both were more negative than positive. The other thing I noticed that I hadnt noticed last time was that everyone was shown talking/arguing, etc at tribal council - except Courtney. She actually got quite a bit of face time at TC, but she never spoke. I thought this was very interesting, especially since she has been shown to be very vocal and ready to speak her mind. Also, I see Danielle's comment during Aras and Bruce's TC argument in a positive light - I dont think she was attacking Aras, she was more diffusing the argument, and trying to explain in a calm way what Bruce was not doing a good job of saying. I saw it as a positive thing for her. Like she was the "voice of reason" in the chaos. All that said, I'm really rooting for Sally. I'm pretty sure she's doomed, especially since my opening credits analysis really doesnt support her - but she's my favorite right now and I think she's playing the best game she can. If she can break into Casaya somehow come the merge, she could have a chance. Perhaps I just like her because she was determined enough to have applied five times, and she's funnelling that determination into staying now that she's out there. Its great to see someone who cares that much.   Top

Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-07-06, 11:47 AM (EST) 105. "RE: Second Viewing" WOW, ag, great observations there and very enlightening! Thanks for taking the opportunity to rewatch and report! fp   Top

redciv23 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 03-07-06, 02:31 PM (EST) 106. "RE: Second Viewing" I've had a chance to watch the episode over also, and there does seem to be a women thing going on. It worries me as I do like Cirie and Sally that they will get mixed into that; once the men figure it out the women will get bounced one by one. As far as Sally, I really want her to win although in her confessionals on the first episode I don't think it bode very well for her. Most of her comments (such as the dead turtle and the women not being decisive)where negative, although for some reason coming from Sally's mouth they are charming. From what I have seen, most 1st episodes the winner is shown in a good light unless they totally flub up.   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-08-06, 11:22 AM (EST) 110. "RE: Second Viewing" Aren't second viewings helpful? They also can provide headaches as well I had wanted to post this prior to the next episode since it is something that I had mentioned that I wanted to have "fun" with should it occur much like the edited scene of Sally's indicating that the men were not feeling well and she was nervous about being voted out which seemed to have perhaps occurred from a future episode. There were two other scenes that seemed curious to me which will be fun to see if, again, it was taken from a different time frame. These were two scenes that occurred during the episode that Ruth Marie was voted out which was also the episode that Sally had discussed the men's dwindling strength. First Scene Austin (conf) “Not happy about going to there tonight. I don’t think there’s any way around the fact that we’d be voting out Sally” I had then commented: (Again, I’m not entirely sure this was not inserted from a future episode. For fun, he is standing, wearing no shirt. It will be curious to see when/if they lose if we see him in a similar confession) Second Scene with my original comments included The following scene supposedly occurred under the tarp. Sally is supposedly talking with Austin, Nick and Terry is shown. This whole scene was very suspicious. Terry does not appear under the tarp and while I re-watch to make sure, Sally said this: Sally “Here’s the deal, whatever happens, I respect you both” (Who would be both? Austin, Terry, Nick? All three were made to “appear” to be there) “I know there’s an alliance but I’ve got a lot of game left in me (Austin and Sally hug) and I’d like to be here tomorrow” (Nick is shown again but in a different position under the tarp) “I thought I’d say that” Since we did not have to revisit these scenes last week since LaMina did not go to Tribal Council, should LaMina be at Tribal Council this week it will be interesting to see if these scenes are relevant. The Austin confessional is more for fun than anything else since his comments did have a place during that episode that Ruth Marie left. However, I do find his comments perhaps even MORE relevant amidst the dynamics of LaMina now with the "men's club" and Sally only remaining. Sally reminded us last week that these four men "have a tight alliance" so Austin advising us in a confessional he doesn't feel "there is any way around the fact we'd be voting out Sally" would seem even more certain should LaMina have to go to Tribal Council with this group remaining. The tarp discussion is most definitely suspicious as there was no question that the audience was meant to believe that Austin, Terry and Nick were all present yet Sally clearly stated "I respect youboth" and at that time, I again questioned whether this scene was taken from a different time frame since three people were supposedly present yet we only know definitely that Austin was present (as we saw him hugging Sally) and one other. Both Nick and Terry were not shown in any frame with Sally but I was inclined to think that Nick was in this discussion since Terry's camera shots appeared more likely to have been edited into place based upon where he was situated Again, this is merely for amusement on my part as many scenes this season have been conspicuously been edited together but I do find Sally's conversation to "both" also a conversation that has the utmost relevance to the tribal dynamics currently. Sally states "whatever happens, I respect you both" and "I know there's an alliance but..." I do not really read the post game interviews or the Insider, etc. though I have read whatever items that were brought into this thread (thank you ) Someone may be able to shed some light on this "alliance" that Sally speaks about (and which the audience is meant to presume is Ruth with the men). It is clear that the "men's club" is an alliance that has been openly shown and Sally has been completely aware. It has been a longstanding discussion also by us that the emphasis placed on this alliance would appear that it is destined to fail There has never been any question of this. What I am curious about is whether Sally was entirely confident that there was an alliance with the men and Ruth Marie since Sally herself tells the "both" that she knows there is an alliance.   Top

Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-08-06, 11:42 AM (EST) 111. "RE: Second Viewing" LAST EDITED ON 03-08-06 AT 01:00 PM (EST) VS, I love when you pick up on this stuff. As far as Sally knowing that the alliance included Ruth Marie, if she did they could have included a scene of her commenting about it in the Ruth Marie boot episode, since it would have made her seem even more vulnerable. So that may lead one to think she didn't know. You're right, this is fun. P.S. Can we have a new thread this Friday? I think we're getting a recrap episode next week anyway. Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.   Top

Surviette 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-08-06, 03:58 PM (EST) 112. "RE: Second Viewing" >What I am curious about is whether Sally was entirely confident that there was an alliance with the men and Ruth Marie since Sally herself tells the "both" that she knows there is an alliance. VS, I'm sure you're correct...again! One certainly can learn a great deal in this thread. I would guess the "both" would be Nick & Austin. Who knows whether the alliance was out in the open. Once Misty was gone, Sally may have ASSUMED that Nick & Austin had decided to go with the other men because they didn't take her & Misty up on their offer. It is unclear whether the consensus was that Ruth Marie was part of the men's alliance, we only know for sure that Dan had a deal with Ruth. From the CBS site: Ruth Marie (votes Sally) "I'm voting my alliance, although I guess I don't have an alliance anymore." Dan (votes Sally)" Ruth Marie, we had a deal to go to the final 5. I stick to my word. I stick to my deal. Even though, Ruth Marie, unfortunately you'll be going home tonight." Nick votes Ruthie. He is clearly upset. Sally votes Ruthie "We talked about this earlier. It's either you or me tonight. I'll miss you." Terry & Austin don't mention any alliance. Don't know if this helps, or just confuses the issues. Well done spotting the, seemingly, stolen scenes. As if we don't already have enough misdirection to watch out for!   Top

VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 03-14-06, 07:16 AM (EST) 114. "RE: Second Viewing" LAST EDITED ON 03-14-06 AT 07:17 AM (EST) This post will now be put in the correct thread   Top

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