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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5"
mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-03, 10:36 AM (EST)
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"Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 10:38 AM (EST)I'm going ahead and doing a Part 5 on this because it's been hinted that the BL happened this episode. Of course it could be that the Big Lie ended up on the cutting room floor just like the mock wedding, but let's discuss it anyway. Here are the links to the first 4 parts
BL/BR Part 1
BL/BR Part 2
BL/BR Part 3
BL/BR Part 4 (all the JP, MB quotes are in those threads so unless there’s an outcry for bringing them to this new thread, I’ll let you read them on the others.
There seems to be some interest in Burtons words when he was booted that we hadn't seen the BL yet, hinting that HE would be the one to do the lying. It's possible that Burton was lying to Lillian when he said that he wouldn't lie to the person from the Outcasts that came back into the game with him. He could be lying that he's got respect for Rupert and that their "reconcilliation" was sincere.
Have at kids...let's discuss amongst ourselves (I'll put the coffee on, you get the pound cake) 
--thinks if this BL turns out to be as disappointing as the "photo finish" she'll start sending hate mail to MB
edited to add that someone started a conversation about the BL while I was typing this so I've added a link to the few comments on that thread
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Ahtumbreez 10456 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 10:45 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Well, if either of those two things astounded Jiffy, then Jiffy's a dork, granted a cute dork but a dork non-the-less.
 TummyBreez
a beautiful kyngsladye original
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 11:04 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>It's possible that Burton was lying to
>Lillian when he said that he wouldn't
>lie to the person from the Outcasts that
>came back into the game with him. He
>could be lying that he's got respect for
>Rupert and that their "reconcilliation"
>was sincere. I don't think either of these is the big lie. I don't see them qualifying as the biggest lie in Survivor history...I'm pretty sure we've seen people promising not to lie to someone before...
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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11-07-03, 11:33 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I'm convinced there is no Big Lie. JP promised a twist, which happened, and bit the big one. He promised a Big Regret, but Osten is too stupid to even regret it. He even promised a wedding that didn't happen (what was that, a typo??).It wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Big Lie was something stupid like Andrew telling Lillian he'd let her know before TC and then not doing it. Woopedy-doo. On a side note, bringing back the Ghosties was made worth it when Andrew asked Lillian to let him know before TC, and Lillian told him "remember when you promised ME" HEHEHE... for that comment alone I'm now rooting for Lillian!
-- secretly wondering if Mistofleas is as hot as he pictures her 
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 12:06 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>He even promised a wedding that
>didn't happen (what was that,
>a typo??). The wedding did happen, but for whatever reason, they edited it out (not sure why they did it, since it was mentioned in the commercials). It was a mock wedding for Christa, who postponed her real wedding to be on the show. >On a side note, bringing back the Ghosties
>was made worth it when Andrew asked
>Lillian to let him know before TC, and Lillian
>told him "remember when you promised ME"
>HEHEHE... for that comment alone I'm now rooting
>for Lillian! Yep...I agree with you on that one. That's the one thing that I do like about the twist.....the effect it will have on future games. You'll have to be careful not to piss off someone when you vote them off, or it could come back and bite you in the butt.
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katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 07:13 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
However, on the Early Show, Andrew said that he DID let Lil know she was going (he gave her a hug, and said "I'm sorry about tonight"); she even laid up extra fire wood for when they came back without her. Lil also mentioned this firewood, in one of her segments. Therefore, it was semantics as to whether or not he "told" her; the editing is just that - editing. Lil felt bad being kicked out (hey, who wouldn't?) and she blamed Andrew, the perceived leader, so in her mind, she thinks "and yeah, he never even came back to tell me, like he said he would." but in his mind, he did.Whoops - this isn't about the Big Lie, is it? Well, if the lie has happened already, then it is a big bore, because I just don't see anything so far to make me think "M F". And if no one finds out, I guess we too will learn it at the finale (or on Snewser's site, whichever!)
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Tiggertramp 3141 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 01:24 PM (EST)
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76. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Okay, I know Acawap posted on 11/7/03, I am late, I was out of town. Misto IS as hot as you think. I know. It's her fault I follow this page. Big Lie?? My head is spinning from reading about and thinking about the big lie, I am thinking it will be from Jon because of his devious pain in the a$$ nature. He will pull an act of desperation so clever it will make us go "nice!" OR MB is yanking our chain as Jiffy has also said he feels he has said too much about the big lie maybe hyping it up to be something it isn't. Ah well, I hope you all enjoy my apple crisp I made it with my own two hands. It goes great with coffee.
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Thaibeach 872 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 11:41 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 12:14 PM (EST)Misto, you rule...and I've brought some scones and apple cake. Have to agree with Ahtum that if that's the BL, Jiffy's a BD. Acawap, it was worth putting up with Andrew for all this time to see the "oh sh**" look on his face when Lil threw his own words back at him. I'm not a fan of hers but that truly rocked! I've seen several posts today complaining that she has a lousy attitude. Again, I don't like her much (except as noted  ) but I think the Morons all had an equally rotten attitude. Andrew "welcomed" her with a snotty, resentful remark about her having immunity while one of the (more worthy) Morons would have to go if they lost the IC. And being the pathetic losers that they are, they would have lost the IC, if damn-him-MB didn't save their butts with a merge. If there is a BL (and I'm beginning to wonder), it's got to happen soon. Maybe it has happened already...I heard Jon say how funny he is. Only problem is no one breathing would believe that. (ok, maybe Osten? )
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 12:03 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I think we're all going to be disappointed with the BL. The way JP built it up...And Acawap, I'm completely on the same page with you about Lill's response when Andrew asked her to tell him ahead of time how she's going to vote. They've been building up to that since Ep3 and I'm glad it payed off. I also thought Lill's reaction when she pulled out the Morgan buff was too funny. The problem with this game, for me, is that I start feeling apathy after the merge. It was so apparent before this episode who would get the boot and it won't be until the final 4 that it starts to get interesting again. MB better hope there are some cat fights to keep me entertained. Or a mutiny against Rupert, that would keep me tuned in. -P
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 12:09 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>I think we're all going to be disappointed
>with the BL. The way JP built it up... In all fairness to JPro...He didn't really build up the big lie...*WE* did. He said that he didn't want to overhype it, but someone told the biggest lie in Survivor history. It's those of us on these type of boards that have spent all this time speculating as to what it might be....We've created our own problem. We've had fun speculating, but at the same time, everything we've speculated is probably way bigger than what it will turn out to be..so it *will* be a let down....
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-07-03, 12:17 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
While I'm in partial agreement with you BrassFan that we the speculators have made this a lot bigger than I'm sure it is...what would one expect to have happen when we're handed quotes like: "For a time, he says he fell for "the greatest lie ever told on 'Survivor.' "It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me," says Probst, and "My first reaction was 'Motherf----r,' and then my second reaction was 'Wow, that's amazing.' " Words like "brilliant", "brutal", "totally suckered me", "motherf---er" and "amazing" don't exactly lead one to be blase do they?
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 01:57 PM (EST)
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19. "Osten" |
All of these comments could be about Osten and him actually quitting..."For a time, he says he fell for "the greatest lie ever told on 'Survivor.' "It's brilliant. It's brutal and it's brilliant and it totally suckered me," says Probst, and "My first reaction was 'Motherf----r,' and then my second reaction was 'Wow, that's amazing.' " Greatest lie ever- someone built like Osten would actually wuss out and quit. And who didn't say 'Motherf----r' when Osten quit?
 
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 04:14 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>Yes he said he didn't want to overhype it,
>while mentioning it for like the 50th time. True...but he was mentioning it for the 50th time because he was asked about it the 50th time...It's not like he's been running from talk show to talk show saying, "hey...you aren't going to believe what happens...." People keep asking, so he talks about it. Listening to him talk about it on one of the shows, he's been fairly low key about it. I think it'll be something that the people who aren't aware of it will think is big, but we won't think it's that big at all. (I'm working on an unscientific experiment about it---I have a friend who doesn't read the boards, she expects me to keep her informed about things...I purposely didn't tell her about the Outcast twist, and I haven't mentioned the Big Lie to her. She was stunned beyond belief at the Outcast twist...She loved it. I'm interested in seeing how she reacts to the lie whenever it happens).
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BeerNuts 37 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-07-03, 12:27 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>I think we're all going to
>be disappointed with the BL.
>The way JP built it
>up... We're on the fifth incarnation of this thread and JP is the one who built it up? I don't think so  . I do agree that it will be a let-down when it's revealed though. For some reason I don't think we've seen it yet. Also agree Lill's response to Andrew was great! I loved how Rupert was standing behind Andrew nodding her on.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 01:39 PM (EST)
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68. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I wish Jeff would do another interview and let us know if this lie has been told yet. We know Burton said earlier that the lie had not been told yet. And most of us think it hasn't been or it was so lame we didn't care. Jeff said that this person told everyone and most of them don't know it was a lie yet. But Jeff found out it was a lie. And Jeffy was shocked. How does Burton know there was a lie if he didn't tell it?
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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 12:57 PM (EST)
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13. "It's still to come" |
I agree with most of you that MB is prone to exagerate. So we might have already seen it. But I don't think it's come yet. BrownRoach said in another thread that Burton's potential lie wouldn't really fit the description and I agree with that. We've seen "I won't vote you off, trust me" lies before.
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fishtank 36 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-07-03, 01:27 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: It's still to come" |
I posted this on another thread but think it should be here also. I'm inclined to believe that the big lie might have been exposed by Andrew on the Morning Show today. He said that he DID tell Lil she was going. Lil has been telling all and everyone that he broke his promise to her. If he did tell her and she's lying about it, she's milked it to make everyone feel sorry for her, including bringing her back into the game. Did you notice that when she confronted Andrew about it, Rubert was within earshot and might have been the benificiary of her comments. Andrew knew the truth and was probably dumbfounded by her lie. If this is it, it is truly brutal and brilliant, especially if it enables her to stay in the game for a long time and results in the booting of the rest of Morgan. I'm interested in seeing how many times she uses this to gain sympathy.
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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 01:39 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: It's still to come" |
Am I being old-fashioned, or is "M-----F-----" an odd thing for a young man to say in the context of an older lady? It doesn't sit with me that Jeff would use an expletive like that when Lill's activities are the topic of discussion.
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 01:51 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: It's still to come" |
You're being old fashioned. 
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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 01:57 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: It's still to come" |
::grin:: Thanks, Weasel.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 01:52 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: It's still to come" |
I tend to agree. Plus, I think Andrew was referring to the conversation he had with her saying it was between her and Darrah. Personally, I think that was all he needed to do, but he went so far as to say he'd let her know before the TC one way or another. He didn't... which if I was Lill would've been a pretty good indication what was happening. Not too much to get worked up over, except he broke a promise (but he didn't even say "scout's honor!!").If Lill would've mentioned that to him to his face and he HAD said something to her, he wouldn't have sat there silently, he would've defended himself. He's a LAWYER, isn't he?? He knew he was guilty... and I loved it!
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 02:00 PM (EST)
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20. "careful" |
not to fall into MB's editing traps.maybe he reacted, and they didn't show it. maybe andrew was spent at that point. or thought lil wasn't really a problem, he would just go back to rupert and be in with the 3-3 plan. anyway, he DID tell lil, and we know this. she knew it. she even said so when she was piling wood around the fire. "i'm probably going home tonight, so I'm just leaving things around for them..." or something to that effect. he told her. he said he told her. i think her problem is that he didn't get her saved. or he didn't tell her soon enough to give her (in her mind) enough time/chance to plead her case. 
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 02:09 PM (EST)
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21. "Big Regret-Andrew" |
I do not understand why everyone thinks the Big Regret is Osten. It is obvious that he doesn't regret a thing. However, the look on Andrew's face when Lil made her little "Remember you said you were going to tell me . . ." comment, was a big look of regret. Andrew regretted the way that he treated Lil. That makes more sense than the Osten regret that some are speculating.No info on the big lie, but I was just tired of everyone saying that Osten was the big regret. Hello! He doesn't regret his actions. Even if everyone else thinks he should. 
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 02:15 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: Big Regret-Andrew" |
Jeff Probst projected that the person WOULD regret the "event", he didn't state flat out that the person DOES regret it. In his mind, Osten quitting was a huge mistake, so this IS the regrettable incident he was talking about. And no, Osten says he doesn't regret it, so Jeff was wrong. 
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 05:31 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Big Regret-Andrew" |
Actually, some of us think he does regret it, he just won't say that. He'd have to be an even bigger idiot than he appears to not regret it.
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 05:48 PM (EST)
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29. "no-beard-growing-because-he-has-no-testicles WUSS" |
At last, a coherent summation of all that is Osten.
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frankz 1214 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 06:08 PM (EST)
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84. "RE: Big Regret-Andrew" |
"but to call him an idiot is just plain mean."
To idiots.
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Riagain 4 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-03, 09:12 PM (EST)
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72. "RE: Big Regret-Andrew's CBS Chat re: Osten" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-03 AT 09:53 PM (EST)Regarding Jeff Probst's statements: A "very, very regrettable event happens," Probst says. "And I think the person to whom it happens is going to regret it, and I think they're going to regret it more than they have any idea (they will) right now. I couldn't believe it when it happened, and I can't wait for it to play out." From Andrew's CBS Chat: Q: Do you agree with Osten's decision to quit the game? And would you have voted for him that night even if he hadn't asked?
Andrew: I did not agree with Osten's decision to quit, however, I have not walked a mile in Osten's shoes, so I could not begin to understand what he was going through. I hope all of us can appreciate that when a good friend is having a very difficult time, you want to support that friend in whatever decision they make. What you didn't see is that Darrah fell ill that day and was struggling. I say this because if Osten had not quit, it would come down to who was healthier at TC - either Osten or Darrah. Do you think Osten might regret his decision to quit a little more than he does right now if Darrah should go on to win the million dollars?
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gofrank151 32 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 01:29 PM (EST)
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77. "RE: Big Regret-Andrew's CBS Chat re: Osten" |
'Event' to me means some sort of fight or confrontation. Osten quitting leaves nothing to 'play out' - that cannot be it.
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thun 11 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 02:25 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 02:44 PM (EST)hi everyone. first time post for me, but i've been lurking all season. diehard survivor fan since day one. but i digress. i just watched the ep. 8 web promo and tijuana says "if one of the guys gets hurt" using those great finger air quotation marks. the sarcasm in her voice clearly indicated the injury is faked. might this be the big lie? the promo surely pumps it up a bit. if that were the case, who might be the one faking the injury? burton had indicated in press interviews after his first boot that he knew that the lie hadn't happened, indicating (to me, anyways) that he knows about the BL. perhaps he is the one faking the injury? it would be a good strategy post-merge where the strongest castaways start dropping like flies. brutal? i don't know...i guess we'd have to see how it played out. edited to say that tijuana is the one making the "get hurt" statement.
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 05:51 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Huh, I haven't watched the web promo, so this is news to me.Could be that someone actually gets hurt, but another person lies and says they're faking it. Hmmm....interesting...must take a weekend to think about this. Could the stingray be involved? Do we have a new mascot?
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joannie 380 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 05:57 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Is there even such a thing as an "electric" stingray? I've heard of electric eels but I don't know about electric stingrays. Maybe Rupert fakes being "stung" in order to throw a few challenges? Maybe he thinks he is hogging the immunities and painting a big fat target on his back.Is this the Big Lie?
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Dougbie 29 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:18 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
As a Biology teacher and a scuba diver, electric rays are very real, and yes they are different from just a sting ray. From what I have been told the electric rays are not very strong as far as the shock that they deliver. Electric eels are a freshwater species and there are no electric eels in the ocean.Survivor -- The stupidest show that I LOVE to watch
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Godd3ss 86 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:20 PM (EST)
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34. "Electric Stingrays" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 06:21 PM (EST)I think it was more of a slip of the tongue. Sting rays will sting is defense. I have never had it happen to me, but I am sure it probably feels something close to a shock, which is maybe why they called it an "Electric Sting ray". Here's the thing though, aren't they somewhat poisonous at the tip? Edited: Me not being the biology teacher obviously has no idea what I am talking about, so just ignore me.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:12 PM (EST)
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32. "Something else we didn't see..." |
...besides the wedding last night. See BS misdirection said:Johnny Fairplay believes he has a great master plan. But will it play out in his favor? I don't remember see anything related to this in the show, unless I have amnesia today. There's nothing in the Insider thread about it either. I'm mentioning it here in case the Big Lie was told as part of Jon's "plan" -- and, we weren't shown it.
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Befuzzled 65 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:05 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Something else we didn't see..." |
I assumed that Johnny Fairplay's "great master plan" was when his amazing powers of perception allowed him to foresee that Lil just might be willing to vote with Drake when she basically told him that she hated the remaining Morgans.The CBS teaser writers do more Meth on Sunday mornings than Christa has ever done on her wildest bender.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:41 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 06:43 PM (EST)aha!! Finally, something on this site I know something about: Used to work at the zoo and aquarium. Fish are my life... well, not really, but I don't have a life, so close enough. Electric Rays are very real, and give off an electric charge of around 50-60V, stunning crustaceans and small fish which are their prey. In some cases, it can produce a charge of us to 200V, which would be enough to knock even Burton and Rupert on their arse. Likely, though, they just got a little warning jolt. sooooooo... with that being said, I'm wondering if the master plan/BL doesn't go something like:
Jon convinces Burton that people think he's a threat, and will moreso if he wins this immunity challenge. He convinces him to 'get hurt' so he doesn't compete well.
The plan then is to get rid of Rupert.
Ryan gets voted off instead, but Rupert finds out and beats the crap out of Jon, getting him kicked off the island but landing him a spot in ASS! edited to add: I don't think electric rays have the 'stinger' a regular stingray has. If so, it's much less prominent... I am the Big Lie
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:54 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I think your theory is sound right up to the part where Rupert kicks Jon's ass. He might not be too bright, but he's not going to start throwing blows at this stage in the game. Regardless, I don't see Burton faking a stingray injury. I can see him pulling up lame in a challenge claiming a sprained ankle or some such nonsense, but not an injury that would be visible on the outside. Besides, Rupert is safe for another two episodes (RyanO goes this week). I'm sure next week's promos will make it look as though Rupert is beyond a doubt the bootee, but then he'll win immunity and Jon will go home. The following week they'll play up Rupert's IC domination and then, twist the knife, that'll be the episode when he gets booted. No one (except us) will see it coming. So instead of Rupert and his harem, we'll end up with Burton as the sole guy left. -P Note: I reserve the right to switch Jon and Rupert in the booting order.
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 06:50 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 09:07 PM (EST)I just gotta go back to what has been said about this lie. 1) doesnt affect the game outcome Edited to say that I could not find this supporting quote. 2) heard by all, but no one finds out about it until the show airs and we all see it. So I just cant see the lie being a part of anyone's strategy to stay in the game, unless it was heard by all and they didnt care when it came to vote time. For a long time I thought it was Osten lying about his weakness, but that affected a lot of people on Morgan. So no it is not Osten. Don't think it is Burton lying either, because you gotta lie to stay in the game. If he broke vows with either Rupert or Lil, this would affect the game outcome, so no it cant be that. Brutal and dastardly? Why would JP say this (not a direct quote) if it didnt directly affect the game? I am no closer to guessing what it could be but to say it must be personal, but still not seeing how it could be personal, brutal, and NOT affect the game.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 07:00 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
but still not seeing how it could be personal, brutal, and NOT affect the game.When J Pro said it didn't change the complexion of the game, I gather he meant nothing happened due to the telling of the Big Lie that probably wouldn't have happened anyway. So let's say the Lie creates sympathy for the Liar. That might seem like a reason why the Liar is kept in the game longer than he otherwise might have been. But, in that case, I'd bet that there were other reasons to keep the liar around anyway, or to boot somebody else first. In that way the lie might affect people's perception of the liar to a degree but it wouldn't really affect how the game got played out.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 07:22 PM (EST)
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40. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
but still not seeing how it could be personal, brutal, and NOT affect the game.actually, he said it didn't change the complexion of the game, not the outcome. Personally, I think the 'complexion' of this game is about that of a 14-year old McDonald's employee that's been eating too much chocolate and hasn't washed his face since 3rd grade, but I digress... The point is, it really could be anything. JP could mean it didn't affect who won the game. Suppose Jon tells a lie and he gets to stay an extra 2 weeks. Everybody knows he can't win, so it didn't change the complexion of the game. JP could mean it didn't change anything because it didn't work. Say Burton tells the lie to get, say, Rupert out. People believe it. Seems to be working. Then Jon does something so stupid he gets voted out instead. Lie still Brutal and Brilliant, but... in the end it didn't matter. So my point is, don't rule out anything. and when in doubt, listen to Brownroach (aka The Big Regret)
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 08:43 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
OK, I've gone back (for the umpteenth time) to the quotes misto provided in thread links 2 and 3. I can't find the quote about the lie NOT changing the complexion of the game. What I did find was (sorry I cant add posts. I've tried and it just gummies up what I am trying to say):"...for a time, JP fell for it...but woulnt say what the ramifications to the game were..." I believe misto would have put the "complexion" issue with the other quotes if it was real, as misto if quite thorough. So I'm going to deduce we don't know if the lie will affect players. I'm also believing that JP found out "after a while", based on the above quote, and before the players because of this quote (sortof quote): "...players still dont know its a lie until they watch with the rest of us..." This sortof quote also tells me that this lie could not be found out based on all the public knowledge out there on all the players, as they would have found it out already, not when the show airs. So in order for Jiffy to find out early either 1) the person mentioned it in confessional (which I know has lots of support), or 2) CBS discovered the BL, but didn't advertise it on the bio and they only told Jiffy (OK MB knows too). More sortof quotes (notice the difference in the tense in the sentences): "JP and MB ARE waiting for someone to apply and lie about profession...but they HAVEN"T seen anyone like that YET." "We've BEEN wating for something like this to come along since we started." "We don't tell the Survivors anything about having to tell the truth about their occupations or anything else for that matter." If JP played he'd pick an "...off the wall profession", "dying family members..." Does this mean CBS would allow a lie about profession in the application? If not,wouldn't this lie have come to CBS light during the testing phase? Would CBS intentionally post a bogus bio, but not have told Jiffy? I'm not seeing this scenario. And if the Survivor went into the game and claimed a different profession than on the bio, Jiffy would have known immediately wouldn't he? So even though Jiffy stresses in 3 different quotes about the BL potentially being a profession lie, I'm not seeing this either. Help me out if you can. Is there any way it can be a brilliant, brutal profession lie? Or is it along the lines of "anything else for that matter"? Could the "dying family member" be labeled brilliant and brutal if it's a lie? Or how bout "I've got 9 months to live"? Would that be brilliant and brutal? What could possibly be brutal? Is this a misspeak by Jiffy? Would "ruthless" have been a better word that brutal?
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:02 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I originally thought the whole WUSSten, "I can't swim" was the BL. The brutal part is that by saying he can't swim and not particapting fully in the challenges would hurt his tribe and cost them rewards as well as immunity which in my eyes would be brutal. I know that I have also speculated below about the BL being Lil lying about Andrew telling her she was going. The more I think about it the more I wonder how brutal that would be UNLESS she gets other Morgan's and Drakes into believing this. Some how this helps her get farther in the game than she would have. That could be brutal in that she was voted out, came back in and survived longer by lying. These people would not think they could be "taken" by a scout master!
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:19 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I too was a WUSSten supporter of the BL. Yes, totally agree it was brutal, told to all. But since we didnt see a confessional that would have tipped Jiffy, but not the players off, this didnt satisfy the fact that Jiffy found out before the Survivors, and WE didnt see the confessional aired so it doesnt satisfy the fact that the players would find out by watching the show (dont think we'll see a confessional from WUSSten since he is off).Lastly on this subject, I couldn't see how this was "brilliant". OK really lastly on this subject, I can't believe I am talking about the WUSS. I want to forget him. As for Lil, Andy was targeted whether this was the BL or not. So this better not be depicted as brutal as the lie would not have had any ramifications or changed the complexion. Was it brilliant? I think not, as lots of players have lied about others to get further in the game and their lies weren't labeled brilliant. (Rob from Amazon comes to mind) So, yes, its not this particular event of Lil's that is the BL.
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:38 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
"So this better not be depicted as brutal as the lie would not have had any ramifications or changed the complexion."This TOTALLY changed the complexion of the game! It also has HUGE ramifications. Lil completely pushed her old tribe aside and took a 5-5 tie going to Tribal Council and turned it into a possible pagonging of her old tribe mates! It is her fault that the strongest person on the Morgan tribe is gone and if the spoilers are accurate for this coming week...the second strongest from the old Morgan tribe will be gone (RYANO)! I think it does have ramifications. Like I said earlier...I do think this was a lie, but I don't know if it is going to be the BL!
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 10:02 PM (EST)
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55. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
My point is that Drake was going to vote Andy anyway. Lil's event would not have changed them targeting Andy. Yes, Lil was the swing vote, but she cant lie to herself...
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 11:41 AM (EST)
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108. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LookeeLoo --Just so you know, the "complexion" quote was real, but it was recent; JP said it in an interview quite awhile after Misto had started these threads and collated all the earlier quotes. So the "complexion" quote was probably posted further down somewhere in thread 3 or 4.
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 06:45 PM (EST)
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115. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Thanks BR. I was hoping to get confirmation on that, but since the original post was not updated with it, I was wary.
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 07:38 PM (EST)
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41. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
i thought there was some speculation about Lillian possibly being the liar about Andrew not getting back to her, and that that could have helped her get back into the game by getting sympathy from the other outcasts, but i can't find it on this thread, so i'll address it here:i don't think this could be the case, because when she was booted, she didn't know she would get a chance to come back, and it seems pretty clear to me she was already angry about this and let it be known at LL, well before the Outcast TC. therefore it couldn't have been a ploy to get back in. i agree with those who say it is probably a matter of miscomunication between andrew and lil - he probably said something he thought qualified as getting back to her, but wasn't something definitive that lil would know for sure 
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 07:41 PM (EST)
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42. "More Thoughts on Lil!" |
OK...at first I was onto Jon for telling the lie. Then, I started thinking about some things that have already been posted here. In order to have a HUGE M----- F-----! Wouldn't it come from someone that you would least expect? Why not LIL? Why isn't the lie that Andrew DID tell Lil that she was going. Here are some things that I found.FIRST, We have the transcript from the Early Show appearance here:
http://www.survivorfever.net/earlyshow_lillian.html Not really much here about the lie other than they mention a scene where Lil and Andrew are walking around in the woods talking...Then she gets the boot, what was going on. Lil's response is that Andrew is just trying to keep his tribe together. ALSO, http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4136.shtml
here we have our message board discussion of Lil's Early Show appearance. Breezy asked if Lil seemed bitter that Andrew did not get back to her (for those that saw it)... Post #6 is by Misto in response to the question, "I didn't get the impression she was "bitter" per se about Andrew not getting back to her. She did seem annoyed about it though." Post #8 is by BR, "No she didn't seem bitter at all to me (of course, if she's returning to the game later, she probably wouldn't be). But she didn't say anything that hinted at anyone being at LL with her." SECONDLY, we have the CBS Webchat with Lil
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4141.shtml
Where she is asked directly if Andrew got back with her about being booted and she says, "I didn't think he did". Later in the webchat this takes place: Q: Do you hope that fire goes out and they can't get it going again since they voted you off?
Lil: Well, this is my personality: I knew I was going to be booted off that night. Before I left, I banked the fire, I went out and got small pieces of kindling and put it underneath where I slept so it would be dry. I went to Andrew, I pointed out to him that the kindling when you come back and it's cold, you're wet and it's dark, there's kindling that you just need to put on top of the coals to get the fire going. That's just me. Part of me was very angry, but I was not vindictive enough to want to see them suffer too much. SUMMARY: The big lie will make you say, "M-----F------". I am thinking it will be told by someone you least expect (in order to invoke the response) and therefore BOYSCOUT LIL could be that person. In the links I have included, she doesn't come out and fully say...NO he did not tell me. We also have our very own excellent spoilers (that were watching with the BL in mind) Misto and BR saying at the time they watched the Early Show that she didn't seem to be bitter (however, last night we saw a VERY BITTER LIL!)about Andrew not telling her. Lastly, in the webchat, she admits that she KNEW she was going to be voted off and she tells Andrew what he has to do in order to get the fire started once they get back from tribal council. SHE KNEW SHE WAS GOING AND I BELIEVE ANDREW TOLD HER. I do think this was a lie, but is it the BL? Also, I think it is in the webchat that she is asked what she would have done differently and she says she would have been more forceful. Are we seeing that side of her now? GO VOLS!
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:05 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
In a previous post above I stated I could not find the quote about "doesnt change the complexion of the game", but I did find a quote about the ramifications of the BL not being clear.Lil would have had to tell all the survivors, as the BL was told to all. Did we see this? No, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Since we don't know if the BL has game-standing ramifications, could the BL be this instead of profession lie or dying someone lie, as hinted in the quotes? I think it could, but because of the quotes repeatedly stress "waiting for someone to apply and lie about profession, deaths, or anything else for that matter", I don't think this particular Lil event is it. I do agree that it could be someone you least expect. Sure we all expect it from Jon. How bout Rupert? What if Rupert was the troubled teen and is actually a MENSA member? OK, thats not brutal I guess, but its brilliant!
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:10 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-07-03 AT 09:10 PM (EST)see my post right above yours for why i don't think Lil is the Liar (at least not yet, and not about this)
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:28 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
I_AM_HE, Exactly! The timeline of what Lil has said! That is completely supportable and non-speculative. While I, trying to fit the event with the "criteria" as given by quotes, have a good speculative agrument, that I will continue to use (in case we don't have a definitive timeline) still feel I have made a good case, yours is spot on.
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:32 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
One of the reasons for my above posts was to show that on the show and post-first vote off...Lil didn't seem upset about not being told by Andrew...she says she thinks he didn't tell her!Then last night she walks around upset and acts as if she is VERY angry and as shown on the episode...she lets Andrew know that she didn't like the fact that he didn't tell her. My point is that her attitude changed from one point in time to another! GO VOLS!
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:38 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
ah, i see now. you could have something there volsfan. not so much he said something and then he didn't, but she wasn't overly upset and then she was. that all then turns on if she was acting upset at LL (which I think she was, though I admit I don't have a whole lot of evidence for this - one potential thing is Nicole's vote at the GT TC, that she was voting for Lil so she wouldn't complain anymore about not still being in the game). she may have not been as upset in her chat because she knew she was coming back and would get her revenge, or, as you say, she might not have been all that upset at all but used it as a way to get back in (again - this would have reared its head FIRST at the GT TC, and not before) OR she didn't really play it up until it gave her an opportunity to get in with drake and take revenge. it is a possibility i'm willing to entertain, certainly
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:57 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
Yes vols, I see now what you meant about attitude changing. But still, she did remain consistent with her original statement before she knew she was coming back that she felt Andy did not warn her like he said he would. Just because she played it up in the game after she came back doesnt mean she lied, she just took advantage of what she truly believed he did.Have I got my timelines screwed up again?
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 10:25 PM (EST)
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56. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
Lil CLEARLY stated in the webchat the morning after being voted off that she knew she was going to be voted off! I guess I don't understand what your talking about with the timeline? To me it is a very easy progression to follow. She gets voted out, doesn't seem bitter about being not told on the Early Show, gets voted back in, and all of a sudden she is mad as hell that Andrew didn't tell her she was being voted off on day 9. Then, Andrew gets on the Early Show this morning and says he did tell her. Am I missing something? SORRY!
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 10:58 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
Which is another point, although not the one I must not have made clearly earlier. Yes, Lil could have known she was being voted off, but that realization didnt have to come through Andy. She was mad at Andy because he (to Lil's perception) didnt tell her, but she still could have known.
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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 02:16 AM (EST)
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62. "Lil's Regret?" |
Early on, Lil commented about getting heat from her scouts when she gets home, specifically for letting her shirt tail hang out. Something about you look like a scout, you act like a scout. She seemed very aware of what she was projecting to the audience and to her scouts. She reminded me alot of Butch from S6. IE. Someone who felt their honor was more important than the game.We were shown When Morgan discussed who to vote out, Lil asks Andrew to give her a heads up if she was going home. It appears Lil did get the nod that she was going home before TC. This is Supported by Lil placing fire wood in her bed and Telling Andrew that when they get back from TC that he could use it to start the fire. It's also supported by Andrews assertion that he told her she was going. We then saw Lil gets voted out. Next, Lil gets voted back in and She's pissed. She's got revenge on her agenda. Within 2 days of returning to the game she publicly accussed Andrew of not getting letting her know when it was her night to get the boot. This appears to be a LIE. This contadicts her own actions the night of her ouster. I think it's noteworthy that if Lil has LIED about Andrew, it is a marked difference from the Lil we saw earlier in the game when she was worried about if her SHIRT TAIL WAS TUCKED IN! I don't know if this is a result of her pride beign hurt after she was voted out after only 9 days, or if she just decided this is a game and TELLING LIES is part of OUTWIT - OUTLAST - OUTPLAY. But the point is it's a marked departure from her value system. Lil has another 3 weeks or so until the final Jury vote. So, what happens to Lil over the next 3 weeks? Has she rationalize to herself that LYING is just part of the game, and that her scouts will understand it - resulting in no lingering regrets? Or does she start telling Lie after lie before eventually having a crisis of values? JP has said he doesn't think the person who has regret knows just how much they are going to regret their actions yet. We know Players are debriefed after they leave the game. Maybe Lil expressed regret (either when being debriefed, or during the final TC vote) about some of the things she did "In The Game". If JP/MB have decided to edit the game in a manner that hightlights Lil's LIE'S, Lil may regret her actions alot more as the next few weeks are aired. Lil's response when asked directly if Andrew got back to her about her being voted off "I didn't think he did." Sounds to me like She's admitting yeah, he did, but she's still trying to covering her backside. She doesn't want to admit she accussed him wrongly, but she knows she did. I guess the question is would Lil be someone who's worried about being a role model and regret lying in the game or not? And if Lil saw herself as a role model could this be the big regret that JP talked about.
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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 09:36 AM (EST)
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63. "RE: Lil's Regret?" |
>Lil's response when asked directly if
>Andrew got back to her
>about her being voted off
>"I didn't think he did."
> Sounds to me like
>She's admitting yeah, he did,
>but she's still trying to
>covering her backside. She
>doesn't want to admit she
>accussed him wrongly, but she
>knows she did. To me, this suggests BrassFan's misunderstanding theory is probably accurate. Andrew says, "I'm sorry about tonight, Lil," and Lil hears, Tonight is going to be unpleasant, but not, I'm voting for you tonight. Lil has asked him point blank to let her know what's going on. She also knows it's her or Darrah. Since Andrew never tells her it's Darrah, she knows her time is up, but she's still p***ed that he didn't flat out TELL her in so many words. Having said that, I just noticed this quote on the CBS site: Upon leaving Tribal Council, Lillian reflected on her time spent on the island: "It does seem to be a game of a lot of deceit and a lot of lying…and I'm not really good at that." (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor7/show/episode03/s7story.shtml) That would make it quite ironic if Lil ended up being the perpetrator of the Big Lie. --
UDG
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volsfan 19846 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 10:08 AM (EST)
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66. "RE: Lil's Regret?" |
Mavsfan, thanks for your inputs and I agree with them! Like I said in an earlier post...I am not so sure that this IS the BIG LIE. However, I am saying that I believe Lil is lying and I believe Andrew told her she was going.Also, in an earlier post LOOKLEELOO made a point that this didn't change the game and that Andrew was already targeting. I am not so sure of that! We do not know the exact order of the way things panned out. On the show, I don't think Andrew's name was mentioned for going until Jon found out that Lil was willing to turn her back on Morgna. Jon then goes to Rupert and says he thinks they might be able to take Savage out! But we do not know if that is exactly how it played out!
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Godd3ss 86 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 09:55 AM (EST)
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64. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
I dont know if someone has mentioned this, but since the morning show is after the show has already been completed and at that point she knew that she was coming back in the game, maybe she didnt want to seem like a hostile wench? She has had months to either come to peace with it or realize that maybe Andrew really did tell her and she just wasnt paying attention. But on the show, 9 days after she was voted off, I could see where she could still be bitter (whether rightfully so or not)
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ehb96 11 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 03:51 PM (EST)
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79. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
"I guess I don't understand what your talking about with the timeline? To me it is a very easy progression to follow. She gets voted out, doesn't seem bitter about being not told on the Early Show, gets voted back in, and all of a sudden she is mad as hell that Andrew didn't tell her she was being voted off on day 9. Then, Andrew gets on the Early Show this morning and says he did tell her."Well, the timeline is actually:
Lil gets voted out, she gets voted back in, she gets her revenge, 3 months later she is on the Early show and doesn't seem bitter anymore.
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Rothschild 496 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 09:14 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: More Thoughts on Lil!" |
Both Lil and Rupert are having mental melt downs.The SOB comment made by Lil is so out of character, the red flags are flying -- storm warnings. Rupert's childhood ramblings to Burton, raise more flags. Both are cartoon characters in the real world.
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pmspml5 3263 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 01:24 PM (EST)
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93. "Lil is the liar" |
In the TV guide interview - Andrew clearly states he told her sorry for this decision and that it was strategic. I can see JP not liking her at first because she was kind of winey. Now she gets back into the game and lies about Andrew - (My guess is she lied to the cast-offs to get back in) he is voted off. JP finds out about the lie after Andrew is voted off - goes M*** F*** - - who's lieing other than a BS leader would be a shocker. Now he's "Pulling" for this person. Got to be LIL
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Pirate Prinny 21 desperate attention whore postings
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11-07-03, 10:54 PM (EST)
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58. "There's no way the BIG LIE was edited out" |
Ok, Jeff said that this was the biggest lie in survivor history and that it was brilliant. He also said that the contestants may not even know it was a lie until they saw it on TV. The BIG LIE is BIG. It hasn't happened yet, but when it does, I'm sure it will be spectacularly edited.
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gailauthor 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-08-03, 00:42 AM (EST)
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60. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
Back to Jon. Okay, I may well be talking through my hat, so I'll apologize to the flamers in advance, but I think the lie occurred when Jon first flashed the finger signs in the first Drake tribal council. Jeff asked what it was about and Jon "lied" and said it was about Jonny Fairplay. This guy is involved in wrestling. No huge leap to think he and his friends are involved in placing bets. Granted, I know little about gambling and betting, and I don't have the episodes taped but--my guess is that Jon is sitting and pointing to the person the group has decided to vote out. If there are any betting situations for each ousting and bets can be made just before the results--Jon's friends get a signal. This would certainly be a big thing, with big consequences and something that would be seen later on tapes. I always thought it was some kind of signal but couldn't imagine what. If Jon is found out during the game, I assume he would be removed. In any case, he should have been ousted as soon as he started giving signals and that would have changed the game.That's my theory and I'm stickin' to it. Gail
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procrastin8tor 26 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 01:29 AM (EST)
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61. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
Omigod. That is a brilliant theory. It certainly fits in with his smarmy attitude. It fits in with what we do know *think* we know...
It's a lie that Jon tells everyone, Jiffy included.It's big. Big Big. Big enough for me to say MistoFleas! The ramifications of the lie aren't necessarily in the game itself...but unknown. The only thing is the timing...He told Jiffy the 'lie' during the gross food challenge. He said something to the effect of "This is the Y, this is the F, and I'm all between. Johnny Fairplay." But it seems that the lie was told in the latest ep? And also, I'm SURE that his contract explicity prohibits that kind of stuff. Once MB and crew found out, they would have to kick him off...unless they don't find out until the game was done? There are still huge legal ramifications...Ooooh....what a goog theory....(chewing on it some more) ***pr0cRaStiN8tor**
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Godd3ss 86 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 09:59 AM (EST)
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65. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
But doesnt he do a sign with both hands? This could clearly be pointing to two different people then. I dont know if they get the option of who they want to sit next to either. I took it the first time to be a "V" for victory meaning that he wasn't being voted off. Either way I think he is an ass and I want to punch him in the face ... badly.
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-03, 11:18 AM (EST)
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67. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
>The only thing is the timing...He told Jiffy
>the 'lie' during the gross food challenge.
>He said something to the effect of "This is the
>Y, this is the F, and I'm all between. Johnny
>Fairplay." But it seems that the lie was told in
>the latest ep? All we know for sure is that the lie happens before Day 26. It was on or about Day 26 of shooting that JPro mentioned it in the interview.
>And also,I'm SURE that his contract explicity
>prohibits that kind of stuff. Once MB and crew
>found out, they would have to kick him off...unless
>they don't find out until the game was done?
I don't buy this for two reasons. 1) JPro knew it was a lie on day 25, so he'd be gone. More importantly, if they knew this was happening, they'd make sure it didn't make TV. They'd blur it out, or just not show it... 2)My main reason for not buying it is the timing. Why would he bother? Why not just tell the friends who got voted out each time? He knew before the show was aired who got voted off, so you give your friends a list of who went, and it what order. No need to be cryptic.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 02:14 PM (EST)
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94. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
I agree that Jon's hand signals are not the lie. They seem like a "lucky" crossed-finger type of gesture to me.Just to clarify, BrassFan, J Pro never mentioned the lie until after the game was over. Here's the original report of what he said on Day 25: Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
For the sake of the calendar spoilers, this morning on the Emmy Award Announcements Post Show on E!, Jeff Probst announced that today was day 25 (their time) of shooting. He said they had about 20 days left there. He also said two noteworthy 'events' have happened that have never happened on Survivor before.
---------------------------------------------------------------- It stands to reason that one of the events was Wussten quitting. But the other noteworthy event isn't necessarily the lie -- lies have happened on Survivor before, after all. Some people have suggested the other event was the men getting naked for the first challenge.
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okaloosajohn 1259 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 03:11 PM (EST)
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95. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
The two "noteworthy events" seem to me to be Osten quitting and voted out survivors returning to the game. Neither had ever happened before.Okaloosajohn
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 03:25 PM (EST)
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96. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5-A NEW THEORY" |
I originally assumed he meant two "unplanned" things had happened, but I think it's possible he could have been referring to the return of the Ghost tribe as the second "event". Especially since the Ghosts' winning the challenge and then Morgan and Drake's having to vote members off more or less triggered Wussten's quitting.
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Chez 777 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-03, 01:39 PM (EST)
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69. "Another New Theory" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-09-03 AT 01:41 PM (EST)Edited for spelling I haven't seen anything like this theory as yet, but sorry if it has already been proposed. OK, here are the facts I am trying to reconcile. 1. This week is the "Shocking, Simply Shocking" episode. 2. The most likely bootees this week are Rhino and Jon. Rhino would be the next choice if the Morgan pagonging continues immediately. But Jon is a good possibility since everyone dislikes him, and he could be disposed of without affecting the Drake vs Morgan numbers (I am assuming Lil now sides with the Drakes). 3. We learn that apparently as a result of the reward challenge, an unlikely pair spends a night away from camp in a luxorious setting (an air-conditioned hotel room). Here is my thought - Jon wins reward and takes Rhino with him. This would surely be an unlikely pair. Then the next day when they return, Jon tells everyone that Rhino is gay and tried to seduce him. Jon's reasoning is that if people think Rhino has been lying abaout his lifestyle for all this itme, it may turn people against him (Rhino), and extend his own (Jon's) life in the tribe a bit longer. This is the Big Lie, and is of a nature that JP would exclaim "M_____ F_______" about it. No one realizes it is a lie, (and maybe they don't really care anyway) but they decide to vote Rhino off at TC. He leaves, never knowing what has been stated about him, and the tribe members never know it is a Lie. But, it did not actually change the outcome of the game.
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-03, 01:51 PM (EST)
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70. "interesting, but no" |
I have to say no to this simply because Jon has proven so untrustworthy that nobody is likely to believe anything he has to say. Furthermore, I like to believe that in this day and age, people aren't likely to vote people out simply because they were not forthcoming about their sexual orientation. It really isn't any of their business.Still, it would be interesting if that happened.
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1derfool 185 desperate attention whore postings
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11-09-03, 06:55 PM (EST)
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71. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
With several hundred posts about the Big Lie, it's hard to find if someone has already posted a theory. I tried to find out if this has been posted, but couldn't find any sign of it, forgive me if I'm wrong.What are the chances that 2 of the survivors are really related? The big lie could be denying it if someone questions it? I got this idea after seeing Christa in a promo, but for a second or two I thought it was Jon. Taking a closer look at their CBS Bio pictures made me realize there is some similarity. Even if it's not them (brother and sister), two others could be related - cousins, in-laws etc., and use this as an unseen alliance. Even the thorough background checks before casting them doesn't guarantee catching a family tie. When JP found out about it (possibly viewing the days filming of them talking together, mentioning it, and which was edited out so we can't see too soon, if ever), he would have seen the alliance possibilities. He did say they never expect the contestants to be honest about their jobs (or however he phrased it), so why not expect them to withhold family ties?
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smile531 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-10-03, 11:44 PM (EST)
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75. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>What are the chances that 2
>of the survivors are really
>related? The big lie could
>be denying it if someone
>questions it? I got this
>idea after seeing Christa in
>a promo, but for a
>second or two I thought
>it was Jon. Taking a
>closer look at their CBS
>Bio pictures made me realize
>there is some similarity.Because of your thoughts, I took a look for myself.. Yes, they do look alike.. Furthermore, Did anyone notice the following in Jon's profile... He says he was born in Danville, VA and then it says he settled down in Los Angeles... However, his profile says hometown: Danville.. Where as Christa's says she was born and raised in Ojai, CA, and currently lives in Los Angeles.. Her Bio lists her hometown as Los Angeles.. The rest of the survivors list their current residence as their hometown.. Jon and Christa both live in Los Angeles.. (Also Jon's profile doesn't make sense..) They both have Arts Degrees. Did some research... http://www.houseblend.com/booklist/christa.html Christa Hastie who works as a programmer in Los Angeles... (This was from 2000). Works for sony pictures... (or did work).. Also found other links that support this.. Does anyone know what exactly Jon Dalton does as far as art consultant?? Could it possibly be that he's in computer art/graphic type work? Did a search on Dalton.. Couldn't find anything on a Jon Dalton who lives in Los Angeles but a professor and a Jazz musician. I also find it weird that it hasn't been mentioned (unless I missed it) Jon talk about anything in his life... Usually *something* is brought out.. But maybe I just missed it.. Like Lil with the boyscouts, Sandra has talked about her background, etc.. Or else maybe Jon's taking the "insane" theory after seeing how Matt last year had that whole machette (sp) thing but still made runner up...haha.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 02:37 PM (EST)
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78. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Jon is also a very bad professional wrestler (part-time, I believe). I think I read he works at an art gallery that specializes in S&M paintings.I'm ignoring the seemingly insurmountable odds that they are secretly related and both happened to be among 16 chosen out of 25,000 entries, and the fact that Christa in tall and strong and Jon is a little weenie boy, and that the only similarity I see is blond hair, which is fake anwyay... I like the thought of this lie! Since Christa is a druggie, and Jon looks and acts like his mother was while pregnant with him, this theory looks pretty good to me!
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smile531 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-11-03, 07:20 PM (EST)
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85. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-11-03 AT 07:21 PM (EST)Maybe the lie is with Jon or Christa.. "No, I'm not a druggie" or at the beginning: "Heres my things" (secretly has drugs in pockets of clothing)
*Scene showing one getting high*
*Cops arrest* hehe.. Now that'd be some regret..
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jasonx 49 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-03, 09:49 PM (EST)
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73. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
the big lie is coming next episode...we might miss it cause it's so casual...but when the title is "simply shocking", it is not about the electric ray sting fish, it has to be something about the big lie.anyway...i am thinking, sandra is the big lie...she will tell christa about voting burton out and then does something outrageous to revela the big lie.
i dont know what it is...i cant wait to see though
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pdragonfly 318 desperate attention whore postings
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11-10-03, 10:47 PM (EST)
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74. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
With few exceptions (being Coby and Tina), most contestants end up stabbing others in the back. Its unfortunate, and I don't look forward to it happening here, especially since I adore Sandra and want her to win. It would be painful to see her get ugly.
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Pirate Prinny 21 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 04:01 PM (EST)
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80. "No" |
Am I the only sane person left around here? We haven't seen the Big Lie yet.
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MattyMax 515 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 04:17 PM (EST)
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81. "Lill, Tijuana and this week's vidcaps" |
Here are this weeks vidcaps:
http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4379.shtml#0alright, I think we need to discuss this. VO: Plus a sinister plot is brewing...
Tijuana: If one of the guys get hurt...
VO: ...and you'll never guess who's behind it.
:: ominous shot of Lill carrying a big log:: hmm.. Wait a second, didn't we have some sketchy spoilers that LILL hurts her FOOT?! also, I would be SHOCKED if lill were behind a plot where someone fakes getting hurt. a scout is trustworthy... It seems like the previews are insinuating that maybe Lill pretends to hurt herself. But, the problems with this theory
- Why would Lill hurt do it? she's already perceived as weak.
- Why would Tijuana know about it?
 MattyMax 
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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 05:12 PM (EST)
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82. "RE: Lill, Tijuana and this week's vidcaps" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-11-03 AT 05:14 PM (EST)OK, discussion forthcoming, Matty. ::grin:: Hmm. First of all, I wonder whether T means "one of the men" or just "somebody" when she says "the guys" in this context. I think she must mean one of the men, otherwise she'd just say "If somebody got hurt..." Which man could it benefit, to pretend he is hurt, and why would T know about it? It could benefit Burton this week -- he's sitting pretty with the Drakes at the moment, so he might feel he'd be doing himself more harm than good to win both RC and IC this week. Perhaps he fakes an injury so as not to appear so much of a physical threat at this point, thereby turning the spotlight away from himself for this week's TC, and brings Darrah and T into the knowledge in preparation for next week. We know Ryan is in trouble. If he were to claim injury, how would that help him at this time? I don't think it can. If he's injured, he's no good for chores (not that he was much good anyway) and he hasn't made enough of an overall impact for the others to have much sympathy with his experience being ruined by an injury. I don't think there's much point in Ryan faking an injury, therefore. Jon? Nah. He has nothing to gain from making himself appear to be more physically weak than he already is. Rupert. What if Rupert, starting to feel the presence of the boot behind him, decides to fake an injury in order to let the Tribe in general know how vital he continues to be? What would they do for food, if Rupert weren't able to fish? On revisiting the promo, though, I don't think Tijuana is talking about this plot first hand, as if she's proactive in it. Rather, she seems to be relating what someone else told her. Plus, what she says is taken out of context in the same way as Christa's comment about possibly taking down Rupert is taken out of context -- we cut quickly to them, as though there's some preamble that we don't see, that might completely change the meaning of what we hear them say. Let's imagine that what T is relating is something that one of the other girls told her. This makes sense, because another woman would refer to "one of the guys" in the sole company of women, meaning "the men". Let's say Christa or Sandra says it to T and D, while the four of them are off lemon-picking. How could it benefit the 4-way Chick Alliance if "one of the guys" were to get hurt? Presumably we are not talking about one competitor deliberately assaulting another. It has to be a volunteer injuree, who either promises to fake it well, or allow himself to be given a bit of a slap -- How about Jon? Heh, he's used to taking a fall, from wrestling. But what on earth use would it be to anybody (either individually or as part of an alliance) to appear to be injured at this point in the game? Other than showing oneself not to be a threat (not something one does with the knowledge of other people in a merged tribe, for sure) the only thing I can think of would be to get taken along for the reward challenge and get a night in a comfy hotel. But the reward challenge winner is always asked on the spot who he wants to take along, so there's no opportunity for someone to fake an injury at that point, especially one that we're assuming is seen as possibly benefiting other people. Bah, I'm only confusing myself here. Someone sort it out for me!! Edited because I typed Jon when I meant Rupert at one point.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 05:33 PM (EST)
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83. "RE: Lill, Tijuana and this week's vidcaps" |
easy to type Jon when you mean Rupert. I get those two mixed up all the time! ;)the only scenario I can picture where pretending to be hurt might benefit somebody is if a challenge involved others picking somebody to do a task, like 'pick a survivor to drink this squid shake'. then, somebody 'injured' would be picked as an easy target, but would wind up doing well. Maybe Ryan is an expert marksman, and they know it's a shooting competition. The major hole in this theory is that this works MUCH better in a team-oriented event. So, my thinking is T's comment means nothing. It's misdirection, like her whole comment was "we're trying to think of a way so the Morgan women have a snowballs chance in Panama of winning immunity. Right now we have none, because we're too pretty and weak to compete in anything physical, too stupid and meak to compete in anything mental. but if one of the guys were to get hurt, maybe we could win something!" and it was snipped creatively.
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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
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11-11-03, 08:57 PM (EST)
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86. "Why "act hurt"?" |
-- VO: Plus a sinister plot is brewing...
-- Tijuana: If one of the guys get hurt...After thinking about this for awhile I've come up with the following scenario where a player faking an injury could help Tijuana. The current voting blocks seem to be: Ruprt - Christa - Sandra - Jon (although J & S are less dependble)
vs
Tijuana - Darrah - Ryan With Burton - Lil as free agents. (Rupert may think Burton is a secure alliance member after Burton game up the immunity idol last week, but I think Burton is setting Rupert up - keep your friends close but your enemies closer). At this stage it makes sense for Burton and Lil to align with Tijuana and her alliance to eliminate a person in Ruperts alliance. Hopefully Rupert himself. Consider then, if Rupert win immunity this week he won't think he needs it. He's thinks he's in a solid alliance and he thinks he knows where the votes are going... IE. they are voting Ryan out. But, again Burtons a free agent (and Jon is undependable). If Burton were to "act hurt" and plead with Rupert to "protect him at TC", Rupert may be lulled into making what he thinks is a purely symbolic gesture and give up Immunity to Burton. Rupert then gets eliminated in a 5-4 or 6-3 or maybe even 7-2 vote assuming the "act hurt" occurs this week. I know, the thought is Ryan goes home this week, so maybe Rupert looks dominant in this weeks challenge (resulting in a plot against Rupert being hatched) and the back stabbing actually occurs next week. MB just showed us Tijuana's comments a week early. The numbers of course change if Ryan goes this week, and Burton (or Jon for that matter) "acts hurt" next week. Could this be the "Big Lie"? Would Jeff say MF if they tricked Rupert into giving up immunity?
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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 00:24 AM (EST)
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87. "RE: Why "act hurt"?" |
>Consider then, if Rupert win immunity
>this week he won't think
>he needs it. He's
>thinks he's in a solid
>alliance and he thinks he
>knows where the votes are
>going... IE. they are voting
>Ryan out.
>
>But, again Burtons a free agent
>(and Jon is undependable).
>If Burton were to "act
>hurt" and plead with Rupert
>to "protect him at TC",
>Rupert may be lulled into
>making what he thinks is
>a purely symbolic gesture and
>give up Immunity to Burton.
>
>
>Rupert then gets eliminated in a
>5-4 or 6-3 or maybe
>even 7-2 vote assuming the
>"act hurt" occurs this week.
> I know, the thought
>is Ryan goes home this
>week, so maybe Rupert looks
>dominant in this weeks challenge
>(resulting in a plot against
>Rupert being hatched) and the
>back stabbing actually occurs next
>week. MB just showed
>us Tijuana's comments a week
>early. A really interesting hypothesis, Mavsfan. I prefer it for next week rather than this week (as you were leaning yourself, towards the end of your discourse), but the more I think about it, there are a couple of other things that we know that sort of point away from it. For example, Tijuana says "If one of the guys got hurt..." which sounds like the speculative situation she's discussing could refer to any one of Ryan, Rupert, Jon or Burton -- whereas your "Rupert gives away the immunity" idea only really works if Burton specifically is the injured player (Rupert returning the favour and all that). I don't think any plotter would be able to bank on the idea that Rupert would ever even think about surrendering his immunity to anyone other than Burton, so "one of the guys" getting hurt is too vague a starting point for a plot that needs such very specific factors if it's to succeed. If it were Burton putting about this idea, he wouldn't say "one of the guys" either. He'd say "What if I pretend to be hurt, in the hopes of encouraging Rupert to give the immunity to me?" He's not going to set up either Jon (or Ryan, if he were still there) to be the recipient of the immunity. On that basis, and knowing that Burton is as big a threat as Rupert, I think Burton would be seen to be scheming for purely selfish purposes rather than for the long term benefit of the tribe, and that kind of thing usually gets people voted out. Also, I really think Rupert has got to know that his head is high, high above the sand here. I just can't see him ditching the immunity as a grand gesture, even if he does feel sorry for the injured party and his ego is flattered by being asked for protection, when he is such a standout himself. He knows he's the strongest player in the game at this point, meaning he's ripe for a take-down, and I don't envisage him surrendering immunity at any point in the game for that reason alone. Plus, I bet Christa tells Rupert about the scheming that's going on -- another reason why he wouldn't surrender any immunity he'd won. I just don't see her and Sandra jumping ship on Rupert just yet. More likely, I see Sandra and Christa trying to draw Tijuana and Darrah into an anti-Burton five-way alliance (with Rupert obviously being that fifth member), and if Burton has won immunity then they would have Jon as their back-up vote if Jon has been behaving weasley. The only way I see Rupert going down next week is if he doesn't win immunity and Burton does. If Burton wins the IC, then he's in a fabulous position to scheme for all he's worth, in an attempt to coalesce a Burton-Jon-Tijuana-Darrah-Lill vote against Rupert. If Burton does not win immunity next week, he has got to be going down. It's the only sensible choice at this point, because (a) he's an Outcast and nobody is going to want to see him go far, and (b) if he stays, he has this unpredictable nothing-to-lose alliance with Lill which could spell big trouble down the line if they're both allowed to stay. Finally, although your idea would be a fantastic big lie, I don't think the injury can be THE Big Lie because our understanding is that the lie is told to everyone, and they don't find out it's a lie until they watch the show. If someone lies about being injured in the pursuit of some large goal that requires the cooperation of others (like causing Rupert to give away immunity and thereby get himself voted out), other people automatically have to be told it's a lie in order to understand what is going on and capitalize on it. This goes against what we're told about nobody knowing until after the fact, and the lie "not changing the complexion of the game". I had a delightful couple of hours thinking about your hypothesis. Thank you for the brain-fodder!! Now I shall go and drink 8 beers to get my synapses to stop firing. ;)
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Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 00:34 AM (EST)
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88. "RE: Why "act hurt"?" |
Wow, I do go on and on and on, don't I. ::cackle::Hey, at least I picked an appropriate online nickname back in the day. ;)
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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 02:25 AM (EST)
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89. "RE: Why "act hurt"?" |
I'm glad you enjoyed mulling it over Loquatrix & thanks for the input.I think your last argument is your strongest one and on further reflection, I think you are right, it rules out my "acting hurt" scenario as THE BIG LIE JP talked about: --- I don't think the injury can be THE Big Lie because our
--- understanding is that the lie is told to everyone, and they --- don't find out it's a lie until they watch the show. But while my "acting hurt" scenario likely ISN'T "the big lie", that doesn't mean this scheme still couldn't play out as a simple game strategy to oust Rupert.
Regarding your point: --- Tijuana says "If one of the guys got hurt..." which sounds
--- like the speculative situation she's discussing could refer to
--- any one of Ryan, Rupert, Jon or Burton -- whereas your "Rupert
--- gives away the immunity" idea only really works if Burton
--- specifically is the injured player (Rupert returning the
--- favour and all that). I agree Tijuanas language indicates "one of the guys" is a general comment. It could be Burton or Ryan or whoever, but I think it's entirely possible that when Tijuana says "one of the guys" she means Burton. But rather than say "Burton could act hurt", Tijuanas making a more sly comment EXPECTING that Burton is going to realize that the only way it would work, is if HE'S the one to act hurt. Tijuana could be playing a roll like she did with Andrew... letting him THINK he's the leader. Let Burton THINK the idea of acting hurt is his idea instead of Tijuana's. Tijuana would know the only way the plot has a chance of working is if it's Burton that acts hurt, and she could be counting on Burton realizing this too, and that he will nominate himself. --- I just can't see him ditching the immunity as a grand gesture,
--- even if he does feel sorry for the injured party and his ego
--- is flattered by being asked for protection, when he is such a
--- standout himself. He knows he's the strongest player in the
--- game at this point, meaning he's ripe for a take-down, and I
--- don't envisage him surrendering immunity at any point in the
--- game for that reason alone. Good points, but we've seen other players (Deena & Roger just last season) who ASSUME they are in a numerically superior voting block become very cavalier about immunity - Roger was 1st off the posts in the endurance challenge after the merge, and Deena didn't even PICK UP whatever bug she had to eat to beat Matt. If Rupert BELIEVES he's in a solid alliance and KNOWS where the votes are going, he too could become a casualty of over confidence. --- Plus, I bet Christa tells Rupert about the scheming that's
--- going on -- another reason why he wouldn't surrender any
--- immunity he'd won. I agree Christa would have to be in the dark. But having said that, Neitzche is on her recommended reading list somewhere, and while I haven't read very much Neitzche at all, what I have read seems very much to advocate acting in your own self interest... Meaning if I understand Neitzche, and she adheres to the philosophy, she may be willing to throw Rupert under the bus, if it benefits her. --- I just don't see her and Sandra jumping ship on Rupert just
--- yet. Sandra's the one that started the "let's get rid of Rupert" talk that blew Trish out of the game. Sandra said she just wanted to keep the tribe strong a little bit longer. Now that it's about individual immunity, I'm not confident of her tribal loyalty. She's the one that will put anyone's name down as long as it's not hers. And now they have Burton to supply food for the tribe (and Keeping Burton over Rupert has the added benefit that Rupert would win the final TC vote in a landslide, while Burton's only chance to win TC (as a Ghostie) is to go against Lil, another Ghostie. Sandra may want to keep Burton around because she can BEAT him in the final TC. She can't beat Rupert. So I see no reason for Sandra to stay loyal to Rupert if she see's a chance to get rid of him. --- I see Sandra and Christa trying to draw Tijuana and Darrah
--- into an anti-Burton five-way alliance (with Rupert obviously
--- being that fifth member), and if Burton has won immunity then
--- they would have Jon as their back-up vote if Jon has been
--- behaving weasley. Outside of S2 with Tina & Colby I think all of the final 2 have been about "who do I have the best chance of beating". Of the guys left, the girls best chance to win TC ranked best to worse are Burton - Jon - Ryan - Rupert. I can't believe the girls will create an anti-Burton block, as a Ghostie, he's the best one for them to go against. (I'm assuming of cource the jury will be expected to hold the Ghosties status against them). --- I had a delightful couple of hours thinking about your
--- hypothesis. Thank you for the brain-fodder!! Now I shall go
--- and drink 8 beers to get my synapses to stop firing. ;) Again thanks for the feed back, you've convinced me this isn't the BIG LIE JP talked about, but too, you haven't convinced me it won't happen. And you are right, a nice cold Shiner sounds pretty good right about now.
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JazzyJax 531 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 10:15 AM (EST)
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90. "RE: Why "act hurt"?" |
Hi - I usually don't come in this thread because all these theories fry my brain, I can't keep up Regarding Sandra taking Burton along, I think she (and most of the others) are smart enough to know that the good bets to take along to the final two are only Jon and Lillian. Sandra has had something against Burton from the beginning. I think she'd vote to take him out at first opportunity. Though there is some evidence that says the ladies team up, I don't see Sandra jumping her free train ride by ditching Rupert unless she absolutely had to. Just MHO! Keep up all the good work guys!  
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aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 11:06 AM (EST)
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91. "RE: Why "act hurt"?" |
So, let me get this straight. We have the Big Lie, the Big Regret, the Big Twist and now, this, the Big Hurt?I thought he played for the White Sox? 
Another quality creation by JSlice
cymbal crash
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 07:51 PM (EST)
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98. "Ways JP Could have found out the BL but Survivors don't until they watch with us" |
In a previous post I wrote:
"...players still dont know its a lie until they watch with the rest of us..." This sortof quote also tells me that this lie could not be found out based on all the public knowledge out there on all the players, as they would have found it out already, not when the show airs. So in order for Jiffy to find out early either 1) the person mentioned it in confessional (which I know has lots of support), or 2) CBS discovered the BL, but didn't advertise it on the bio and they only told Jiffy (OK MB knows too)."I apologize if this has been speculated but a third way would be an interview/confessional with a family member who spills the beans, that only JP and CBS were privy to, which we would get to see during the family reunion show.
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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 08:14 PM (EST)
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99. "RE: Ways JP Could have found out the BL but Survivors don't until they watch with us" |
perhaps burton's mother calls him "john" which is, i believe, his "real" first name? (burton roberts, a.k.a. john burton roberts)i'm not sure why burton's identity is a m-----f----r type of thing, though.
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 08:30 PM (EST)
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100. "sandra/jon antipathy fake?" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-12-03 AT 08:30 PM (EST)i made this speculation on the core alliances thread (i think), but what if sandra and jon staged their blowup? sandra has said several things that were strangely positive about jon (e.g. him blowing up at shawn) since then i've always thought it would be a great strategy to make an early alliance with someone you either dislike, or pretend to dislike, and agree to act cooly towards each other, talking only when you must, etc maybe sandra and jon have done a masterful job of throwing people off the scent of their alliance? they may really dislike each other too, but i wouldn't say it's impossible that their confessionals are a bit exaggerated either... again, this is pure speculation, and maybe influenced by the fact that it's a strategy i already have thought about, but maybe some food for thought edit to add: SWOOP!
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 11:00 PM (EST)
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101. "RE: sandra/jon antipathy fake?" |
I like this. It would be brutal and brilliant and devious. So far the quotes say "the biggest lie ever" and "told to all". And as far as I can tell, the actual quotes dont say "someone tells the BL..", so why not have 2 involved in the BL?A couple of things I can't get past though would be 1) if they are in this secret alliance, why didnt Sandra tell Jon they were voting Shawn off? It made Jon a target when he didnt vote for Shawn, so it doesnt seem like it would have been in Sandra's alliance interest to not tell him. 2) if I just met 16 players I'd have a hard time trusting them to stay true, especially if they have to act out and blow up at eachother to facilitate the alliance. I'd have doubts. I maintain that the BL clue resides in the many quotes related to: "JP and MB ARE waiting for someone to apply and lie about profession...but they HAVEN"T seen anyone like that YET." "We've BEEN wating for something like this to come along since we started." "We don't tell the Survivors anything about having to tell the truth about their occupations or anything else for that matter." If JP played he'd pick an "...off the wall profession", "dying family members..." They mostly hint at a profession lie or something that is personal. I'm stuck at resolving what could be brutal about this type of lie. But I am beginning to think the viewers will learn of it from the Family Reunion show because a family member will spill the beans in an interview/confession, and this will be why JP knows, but the Survivors don't.
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 11:16 PM (EST)
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103. "RE: sandra/jon antipathy fake?" |
Um, yes, the trish vote. That is what I meant. I suppose they may have alligned after the merge, or just not right away. That would support a little more trust I guess.
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silentJ 336 desperate attention whore postings
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11-12-03, 11:57 PM (EST)
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104. "RE: sandra/jon antipathy fake?" |
I've been leaning toward the professional angle too. But I don't think it's anything as dramatic as we've come to suspect. I'm thinking it's something we already know and don't think is a big deal. As of now, my money is on the fact that Jon is a pro wrestler. Pro Wrestler and Art Gallery Whateverthehellhedoes are not common jobs for one person. Think about it. Jon is regarded as a weakling. So much so that they chose Christa as a weight bearer over him. If he is stronger than he appears, as most small wrestlers are, and told everyone he was a dainty art guy just to appear non-threatening, that would fit. Especially if you blew it out of proportion as Jeff likes to do. He did find some sudden strength in the keel haul challenge.
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:13 PM (EST)
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125. "RE: sandra/jon antipathy fake?" |
Way back before the show aired and people were trying to figure out the cast, a spoiler came forward with information about a guy who worked at an art gallery being on the show. That turned out to be Jon. So his job credentials hold up.Regarding Jon's strength - you need only look at the sticks he's sporting for arms and legs to know that he's not a sinewy, strong wrestler type. Regarding pro wrestling - yes, Jon is infatuated. He's been involved in some freak show called Portland Organic Wrestling and I believe he worked with several other pro wrestlers. Links to Jon's wrestling past can be found here:
http://www.survivornews.net/snn.php?sid=s7_jon -P "Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes." - Bob Hinck
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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 00:02 AM (EST)
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105. "Family member & The Big Lie?" |
What if a family member/loved one brings in the Big Lie?For example, Tijuana's loved one comes in and says "Tijuana, I've got terrible news, your mom's come down with cancer. There's a new experiemental drug, but insurance just won't pay for it." Tijuana knew coming into the game that the "My mom has cancer" has already been done, and any player coming in to SURVIVOR with a "My mom has cancer" story will be suspect. So Tijuana and her family member/loved one agree on a cancer story BEFORE SHE SHIPS OUT. If she's still in the game for the family member/loved one visit, they will spring the cancer story during the visit. I think it would have instant credibility and generate goodwill for Tijuana. JP/MB don't realize it's a lie until the shows over, and they are preparing the player info for the CBS sight. IE. Tijuana's mom died years ago. It would be Brutal, Brilliant, and no one would know it's a lie until the reunion when Tijuana's family shows up without mom. I use Tijuana just as an example. It could be most any of the players doing this.
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LookeeLoo 1169 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 06:47 PM (EST)
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116. "RE: Family member & The Big Lie?" |
Now that is an interesting idea. Very brilliant and brutal.
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Laurieish 51 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 08:12 AM (EST)
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106. "Family/ Profession Lie?" |
quote: If JP played he'd pick an "...off the wall profession", "dying family members..."I have wondered if this is one of those things you do if you feel you give too much information. Maybe he felt he wanted to get off the track of what he was really talking about and threw in these two things. In my mind it almost makes it less possible that these are what it could be. -Laurie
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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 11:30 AM (EST)
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107. "Lillian " |
~I jump in late...I found this article where Andrew talks to tvguide about Lillian being a big liar about the whole "why didn't tell you tell me I was going" thing..boy is Andrew bitter about Lil's return to the game. tvguide ~I really don't think this is the BL,(I'm still in the Jon camp)but thought I'd throw it out there... Misto, have you thought about starting A BL/BR thresd part 6?
I *lvoe* my Kyngsladye Creation
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 12:27 PM (EST)
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109. "RE: Lillian " |
I gotta say I just don't buy Andrew's story re: Lil lying. The look on his face when she dinged him with that in ep7b was absolutely precious, and it told me more about what happened than any of his lawerly denials post-game.Yes, it's possible that he said something vague to her before her first boot, after all, attorney's are really good at vague statements that could mean many different things. However, I think he knew it was vague. Also, as has been stated before, many people 'know they are going' without anyone actually telling them. Not only do I think this is not the Big Lie, I don't think it's a lie at all. (Forgive me if I duplicate, I'm desperately trying to catch up after being out of the loop for a couple weeks)
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 12:31 PM (EST)
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110. "RE: Lillian " |
Misto, have you thought about starting A BL/BR thresd part 6? I have thought about it, but I've been resisting doing it until after the show tonight. Once we see this episode I think I'll start a new thread once again condensing what we have so far, intigrating the new info and theories that will pop up tonight and try to keep it a little more organized and easier to follow. Either that or just chuck the whole thing and chalk the BL/BR up to uber hype!
--welcomes comments and suggestions
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 01:44 PM (EST)
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111. "my comment and suggestion that Misto welcomes" |
comment: I have a secret crush on Mistofleas... (but don't tell anyone!) suggestion: that CBS reveal the G&# D%$& M(&#)$% F*#%(@ Big Lie already, because it's driving me nuts!! -think I'll just sit here quietly and ponder why I let this 'lie' affect me so....
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 02:04 PM (EST)
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112. "A Request" |
Please retire the Big Regret aspect of it, okay? I know some people don’t believe Osten regrets his decision (though some of us think that’s just bluster on his part), but it seems pretty obvious that, from Jeff's standpoint, the Big Regret is Osten quitting.
Everyone has a crush on Misto.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 02:45 PM (EST)
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113. "RE: A Request" |
actually, I think the regret is having Osten on in the first place. That's a regret I'm POSITIVE about! - figure I'll be fightin' the weasel for Misto soon...
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rnabring 54 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 05:45 PM (EST)
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114. "RE: A Request" |
So, there are reports that Lillian gets the boot tonight. Not a shocker. But...here's our big lie that happens, as I see it:1) Burton said, "I'll never vote out an Outcast"
2) He lies, and somehow Lillian gets the boot.
3) Lillian says during her exit interview "Shocking. Simply Shocking!" None of the existing survivors knew about that promise until it aired. Jiffy says "mother f-er". Jiffy risks over-hyping the lie (which he did). It is good game play...lie to a bunch of people to get back into the game. It worked. Not too exciting whatsoever, but my two cents, nonetheless.
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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-03, 07:12 PM (EST)
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117. "Big Lie" |
That Snewser. I think he's lying about tonight's boot (lil). The m-----f----r.
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aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 10:53 AM (EST)
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118. "New Big Lie theory" |
Ok. maybe not so new.I think that the big lie may in fact be what transpired in the TC last night. Christa called out the Morgan tribe for being lazy and Darrah defended herself. However, based on the votes and the fact that Christa and Sandra took that walk with Darrah and Tijuana, it seems to be like these four have made a pact to get rid of the strong men and the annoying men (though they might keep Burton for fishing). This would mean a boot order of Rupert, Jon, then Lillian and Burton. But, naturally it won't work. But anyways, the lie is the staged fight between Christa and Darrah. This act convinces Jeff that even though they are living as one tribe, they are still very much Morgan vs. Drake. But this is not the case, because of the 4-woman pact. It's brilliant and brutal because it throws off the men and JPro is fooled by it too.
It doesn't change the complexion of the game because the game is about shifting alliances. They could easily have made their pact w/o putting on the TC show and the net result would have been the same. It's also not a huge as we here at SB would like it to be but this is EPMB and his hyperbole, after all. So, that's my new theory on the BL. What do you guys think?
Another quality creation by JSlice
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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 11:33 AM (EST)
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119. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-14-03 AT 11:37 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 11-14-03 AT 11:34 AM (EST) A/S~I like your theory! It would be brutal and brillant, because if the fight looked real enough to me while I was watching it, forgetting that they had an alliance...now about the BR, (Big Regret, not Brownroach ) I really was thinking that it had to do w/osten quitting, but the previews for next week with Lil saying "I regret, etc." have me thinking that maybe the BR has to do with her. Just my 2 cents...flame away.
~edited because I really need more coffee, because I had half of this post in red, and the other half all black.
--is glad today is Friday
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 11:47 AM (EST)
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121. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
This is interesting, because when I watched last night, I found myself saying "Oh, so THAT's the big lie" ... but not about Crista/Darrah... about Burton saying his allegiance to Drake was a LIE. I mean, he actually said it was a big lie! Thinking about it, I could see Jiffy saying "m----- f----"
when he announces it, it IS brutal, and brilliant, and he DID tell everybody about it, and they DID believe it, and they probably still wouldn't know about it until the show. I don't think it's the biggest lie ever told, but it meets the other criteria, so I chalked it up as the 'Big Lie'. If Crista/Darrah wanted to stage a fight, I'd think it'd be over something more significant, and maybe more dramatic. Plus, the previews for next week show Darrah, T, Jon, Burton and Lill conspiring to get rid of Crista, Rupert and Sandra, which fits with spoilers for the final 4. So I don't think the 'four chick' alliance has any merit, IMHO.
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aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:03 PM (EST)
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123. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
Plus, the previews for next week show Darrah, T, Jon, Burton and Lill conspiring to get rid of Crista, Rupert and Sandra, which fits with spoilers for the final 4. So I don't think the 'four chick' alliance has any merit, IMHO.Thanks, the clip passed too fast for me to see who was there. However, if there is a secret chica alliances, it would behoove C and S to continue to stay by Rupert and let T/D conspire w/ misfits and just converse when absolutely necessary. That the misfits want to oust Rupert is convenient to the alleged chica alliance, imo. but i haven't had a chance to checkout the vidcaps thread yet..
Another quality creation by JSlice
typing w/ one hand because E's sleeping on my chest.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 11:39 AM (EST)
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120. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
I'll have to rewatch my tape tonight. Are you sure the 4 women sealed an alliance?All I heard was...we're gonna get lemons. Wanna come? And Tijuana voice over says that her and D have *heard* Sandra and Christa talking about learning how to get food, and the rest of her rambling was hypothetical, pretty much just interpreting what S/C are up to. Did the ladies actually conspire on-camera, or are we just assuming from these snippets of video and audio that they have aligned?
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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 11:47 AM (EST)
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122. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
I'm assuming that they are in alliance because both Ti and Darrah knew to vote for Rhino...someone had to let them in on it.
-is ready for the weekend to begin
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Spanky68 8092 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:10 PM (EST)
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124. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
That does make sense, BuckeyeGirl. It sounds more like a big lie than the Burton thing.
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:17 PM (EST)
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127. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
it definitely would be a bigger (and better) lie, but our wishes don't make it fact. EVERYBODY know Ryan was the next to go. Ryan even knew it. We knew 5 episodes ago.I'm thinking they voted with the crowd as an attempt to 'fit in'. If they'd voted Burton or Lill or Christa, everyone would've known they had, and it would've killed any possibility of a new alliance.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:25 PM (EST)
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128. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
That's how I rationalized D/T's votes, too. Tijuana used Penny's strategy all through last night's ep. She nailed Ryan in the IC and gave him her vote. I, too, think she was just sending a desperate message to the Drakes.
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Sneezles 114 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:16 PM (EST)
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126. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
I like the chica alignment theory b/c they didn't actually SHOW them making the alliance....usually the alliances that are shown are the ones doomed to fail.jmho Sneezy.
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:42 PM (EST)
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129. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
Yeah, that was weird. T and D didn't need to vote with the majority to get Ryan booted. They could have played dumb and voted for other people since they're probably both in multiple alliances-of-convenience (AOCs). By voting with the majority, anyone who's not in an AOC with T & D (i.e. Rupert) would know that they've been tipped off.-P "Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes." - Bob Hinck
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ExInterper 3093 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 04:40 PM (EST)
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137. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
Or it could just be a matter of not wanting to not piss off the dominant alliance needlessly. Remember in the Amazon, Butch voted for Dave even though they were aligned together to not draw more attention to himself when he didn't have to. Kinda worked too, as the big alliances started to target the more immediate threats. It probably could work again here, since Burton & Jon now want to take out Rupe. ExI
"Let's hope Osten doesn't smoke. He might decide to quit breathing." - Jims02, Ep 7a Summary
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pmspml5 3263 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 12:56 PM (EST)
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130. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
There was one part where Sandra made a comment about being able to "survive without any men" - and both Darrah and T were there
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Godd3ss 86 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 02:58 PM (EST)
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133. "Chica" |
It's spanish for girl.
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 04:32 PM (EST)
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136. "RE: New Big Lie theory" |
Apparently they had some blow up in camp. He refers to this in the Yahoo chat. He also seemed to back off a little from his harsh vote talk, so maybe they kissed and made up at LL.-P "Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes." - Bob Hinck
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Acawap 184 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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11-14-03, 03:55 PM (EST)
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134. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
I'm sorry, but I still can't buy the 'Christa/Darrah fight was fake was the big lie' theory. Couple of reasons:- What purpose would it serve?? Everybody knows Christa is in an alliance with Rupert and Sandra, which makes them against Darrah and T. Unless Rupert suspected something was up, there'd be no reason to stage this fight. Just keep mouths shut and move on.
- Christa mentioned in confessional she didn't like how they were lazy. She's also known to speak her mind when she doesn't like something per internet bios. No reason to pretend she was upset in confessional.
- the biggest one: The 'on next weeks episode', they showed Burton, Lill, T, Darrah and Jon shaking hands and agreeing that the 5 of them stick together. Spoilers have Rupert out this week, and this is the only possible way that could happen. The 4 chicas theory would have Burton out first for sure. Spoilers also have Christa leaving soon. so I'm sorry, but the Big Lie was Burton saying he was done lying and that he was 100% Drake, IMHO.
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BrassFan 326 desperate attention whore postings
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11-14-03, 04:20 PM (EST)
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135. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
>so I'm sorry, but the Big Lie was Burton saying he
>was done lying and that he was 100% Drake, IMHO. I don't think so....That doesn't really qualify as the biggest lie in Survivor history... I'm certain other people have lied about their alliance and their vote before.... I have a feeling that the BL will have to do with someone who's been playing a lie all along (either about their career, their hometown, or something like that).
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Blow by Blow 895 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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11-14-03, 04:41 PM (EST)
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138. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Yeah, that's a fairly average lie. The bigger lie would be for Burton to swear before the other Outcasts that he'll never lie to them followed up with his "scout's honor" pledge to Lill over breakfast. If he winds up screwing her over, then that's a pretty big reversal. I dunno though, this still seems to fall in the 'general type of lie' category for me. I guess I'm hoping for something bigger, grander and with buttery topping.
-P"Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes." - Bob Hinck
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Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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11-14-03, 05:11 PM (EST)
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140. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
The big lie was Big lil pretending to be pissed off at burton for falling asleep on her . Brilliant because it makes everybody think that them two arent together or conspiring brutal because it makes everybody think that lil is a B****
and it catches other tribemates unaware. It would also explain why nobody else knows its a lie because its not even that important of an event to talk about
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ExInterper 3093 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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11-15-03, 00:49 AM (EST)
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141. "Episode 10" |
Hey peeps, check out the episode title here:http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/4416.shtml ...looks like we FINALLY have our big lie...and he's going to air it on THANKSGIVING???? WTF???? ExI
"Let's hope Osten doesn't smoke. He might decide to quit breathing." - Jims02, Ep 7a Summary
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PokeyOkie 94 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-03, 11:01 AM (EST)
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142. "RE: Episode 10" |
Show will be on Wednesday, Nov. 26.
Pokey
"You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose. But you can't wipe your friends on the couch."
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Laurieish 51 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-03, 12:42 PM (EST)
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143. "RE: Episode 10" |
Episode 10 could reveal where the lie occurred or the lie could happen on that episode. If it does occur on episode 10 perhaps the boot would help deduce it. (Unless it is an overall lie to get farther)Rupert - boot ep 9
Burton/Christa - ep 10 (also Family visit?) I could see Lil lie to Burton or Sandra lie to Christa. Really wouldn't be a "great lie" though.
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badger 1273 desperate attention whore postings
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11-16-03, 12:59 PM (EST)
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144. "lil NOT liar" |
there's just no way lil can/will tell the "great lie." reason 1. as episode 8 indicated, this woman is just about the worst liar i've ever seen. i mean, my dogs do a better job trying to convince me they weren't the ones who peed on the floor, than lil did trying to prove to folks she and burton weren't allied. reason 2. JP would never call lil a "m-----f----r" reason 3. this "big lie" (or "great lie", or more likely "totally-overhyped-and-completely-mediocre lie") is supposed to be the biggest, baddest, most mindblowing ever. i have a hard time placing any superlative next to lil's survivor strategy. i'm fairly convinced burton will be the liar. we've seen several hints about his "honesty" -- the scout's honor thing, the promise at the outcast TC, etc.
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udg 3381 desperate attention whore postings
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11-16-03, 02:55 PM (EST)
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145. "I definitely think it's Burt or Lil..." |
They're the only two characters who've been shown saying anything about, "can't" "won't" or "shouldn't" lie. MB seems to enjoy the "irony" of showing people do things they don't want to or know they shouldn't do. And, based on the m----- f----- comment, it's probably Burton.---
UDG
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-19-03, 10:58 AM (EST)
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146. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-19-03 AT 12:48 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 11-19-03 AT 11:00 AM (EST) I posted this on the Press Release thread, but since it's BL material, I'm putting it here for posterity as well. Misto's Theory: Jon got a smack in the face at the last TC with votes for him. He has been under the impression that he's quite safe and no one can touch him. Now he realizes that he's just as much on the chopping block as anyone else and his whole annoyingly charming routine is falling flat. So... He see's that Lil is having a hard time with something. She's out walking the beach alone, gathering wood as she usually does and Jon approaches her to feel out her alliances and strategies. Lil thinks he's approaching her in friendship and breaks down. Crying about being lonely, missing family and feeling like a bitch for lying and voting out Ryan. Jon's twisted little mind starts whirring and he comforts Lil. Telling her that it's a game and she shouldn't feel bad. That he's been lonely too and his hard annoying exterior is really a cover up for the pain he feels at the loss of his grandmother...who raised him and was his only family. (after his parents were killed in a car crash or something equally sinister). Jon will tell Lil that he's really feeling close to her because her personality and good heart remind him of his grandmother. Lil falls for it hook (pun in tended) line and sinker. She spills her guts about her alliance with Burton (as if they didn't know anyway!) and Jon becomes Lils new "skinny Ryan". THEN, Jon wins the family visit. His lie is perpetuated by the fact that he doesn't have family come to him but a friend. Lil takes that as even more evidence that poor Jon is not really an annoying asshole, but a sad lonely, missing his grandma kinda guy. Jon sets the hook in Lil even stronger by then giving her the family visit. Telling her that he's seen through her how important family is and that SHE needs to be with her loved ones. Everyone sees this and they're stunned at the depth of Jon's capacity to be a decent human being. (a la Robb). Even JP gets a little tear in his eye. Until of course he see's the confessional and Jon admits it's complete and utter hogwash. JP yells m----f-----! (I think I'm gonna puke, but I also think this could be the way it happens). mistofleas --foregoing sig pic for dial uppers sakes
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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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11-19-03, 11:41 AM (EST)
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147. "Misto's Theory" |
I like it. I like it alot..and can totally see it happening. This would explain how we begin to root for Jon, and the M-F reaction from Jiffy. It would be brillant and brutal.
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Shellbie1013 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-19-03, 12:20 PM (EST)
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148. "RE: Big Lie / Big Regret Part 5" |
Hello - First time poster, long time reader.Misto - I think your theory is brilliant, and I had to create an account just to be able to post and say that! Does anyone think that the BL might be someone in Rupert's core alliance going against him? There has been talk of a female final 2 - somebody has to turn on him at some point. Perhaps Sandra or Christa looking in his eyes, telling him they're with him until the end, and then organizing a coup to get him off? Just a thought - I'm new, don't laugh at me...
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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11-19-03, 12:47 PM (EST)
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149. "Welcome out of lurkdom Shellbie" |
Misto - I think your theory is brilliant, and I had to create an account just to be able to post and say that!I'm honored, thank you very much! Does anyone think that the BL might be someone in Rupert's core alliance going against him? While most likely this will happen since Rupert's got to get voted out sometime (as much as I would hate that), his core alliance will have to turn on him eventually AND we've already heard Christa and Sandra talking about it in a very nonchalant kind of way. It's doubtful something like this would be the BL though. Lie's, betrayls, backstabbing...it's all part and parcel with the game. Just a thought - I'm new, don't laugh at me... Are we allowed to laugh if you say something funny though?  mistofleas --welcoming since 2001
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Shellbie1013 2 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-19-03, 01:08 PM (EST)
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150. "RE: Welcome out of lurkdom Shellbie" |
Just a thought - I'm new, don't laugh at me... Are we allowed to laugh if you say something funny though? Well, then you'd be laughing with me not at me!
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mistofleas 8043 desperate attention whore postings
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11-19-03, 02:54 PM (EST)
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151. "RE: Welcome out of lurkdom Shellbie" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-19-03 AT 02:54 PM (EST)Well, then you'd be laughing with me not at me! Well, as far as you know anyway. mistofleas --winking and laughing since 1972
edited cuz her smiley didn't work properly
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