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"Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth"
FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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08-27-02, 05:59 PM (EST)
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"Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-27-02 AT 06:01 PM (EST)Sorry for the new thread, but the Buffs and Teams thread had gotten pretty convoluted and this post is particularly picture intensive. What I am attempting to do is disprove the notion that there we will have an all male tribe and an all female tribe. I have taken photos from the Early Show intros, the E! News piece and the Extra piece all from the same day (August 15) and compared them to photos taken at Ao Jak after Survivor finished filming, but before the players were announced on the Early Show. The Ao Jak (where the Sook-Jai or “purple buff tribe” had their camp) photos were posted on both SNews and SurvivorFever. That said, here’s my analysis: Jake, from Early Show -- Note the hill directly behind Jake's head. Also, the photo with Jed is very likely taken the same day (if not minutes apart) since Jake looks exactly the same in both.
  Ao Jak beach (looking left)-- Note the same hill in the background
 Stephanie, from Extra -- Note the similarities in all 3 beach shots. IMO, this is the same beach.
 Stephanie, from E! News -- Note the rocky outcropping in background
 Ao Jak beach (looking right) -- Note the same rocky outcropping
Robb, from Early Show -- Compare to above photo
Shii Ann, from CBS promo 8/25 -- looks like the same beach
Ken, from E! News -- Note trees immediately behind Ken, open sky and water in background
 Erin, Penny, and Shii Ann, from Early Show -- Note the floor boards that match what Ken is constructing above and the trees to the left that match the above picture as well
 Ao Jak campsite clearing (facing the water)-- trees in foreground, open sky and water in background
Erin, from Early Show
Ao Jak campsite clearing (facing the island)
 Based on these pictures, I believe that the purple, Sook-Jai tribe consists of: Ken
Jake
Jed
Robb
Stephanie
Erin
Penny
Shii Ann  Fester
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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08-27-02, 11:06 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Nice job, Fes! I agree that the male female thing was a no-go, but this seems to back that up.Great analysis. 
Just because I have standards, they call me a b*tch. Diana Ross
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 00:18 AM (EST)
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3. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
This is nice Fess, but my only thought is that there are probably A LOT of hills and beaches on that island in Thailand that look the same, aren't there?-SB
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 00:33 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Yes, I would imagine that there is a lot of very similar terrain on Tarutao. However, if we're looking at the two campsites, Ao Jak and Ao Rusi (according to Survivor Maps), then only Ao Jak has such a long stretch of beach. Ao Rusi has much less beach, if the maps are to be believed.Second, there is no doubt in my mind that the hut that Ken is putting the foundation on is the same one that Penny, Erin, and Shii Ann are completing. Third, I'm also convinced that the hill behind Jake's head in his vidcap is the same exact hill in the post-Survivor pic. He's definitely on Ao Jak beach. The beach vidcap of Stephanie is also, to my eye at least, from Ao Jak beach. The vidcaps of Shii Ann (cartwheel) and Erin (with the oar) are more speculative, but when you compare them to the vidcaps of the other players in what I believe to be the "Red" tribe, there isn't a beach like that in any of them. Most of those vidcaps are taken in front of high rock face, or more jungle-like surroundings. I would have included them for comparison, but I felt I was already probably posting too many images. If you think it's warranted, I could do a similar post of the "Red" tribe and their surroundings. However, there are no photos of Ao Rusi au natural like there are for Ao Jak (at least none that I've encountered). Fester
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ShowMeTheWinner 962 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 03:50 AM (EST)
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5. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Excellent analysis, Fes!Based on these pictures, I believe that the purple, Sook-Jai tribe consists of: Ken
Jake
Jed
Robb
Stephanie
Erin
Penny
Shii Ann
If this were true, then my guess would be to separate the males and females first (refer to Probst's comment of "males on one side and females on the other") and then randomly assign them to two groups in equal numbers. The traditional 4males-4females tribe still exists but it's done randomly this time round instead of the usual distribution according age/physical abilities. The purple tribe consists of more younger members than the red tribe.
No. of people aged 30 & below: Purple 7 Red 1
No. of people aged over 40: Purple 1 Red 3
Average Age: Purple 31.13 Red 34.63 Purple tribe's more likely to win the first challenge if it were the usual physical challenge.
Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor! (I'd rather be delusional)
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Cin 843 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 12:14 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Thanks for doing this FesterFan, I did think they would be put into male/female tribes till I saw the picture with the guy with the purple buff in his pocket. Cin 
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Icis 60 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 02:21 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Great analysis Fester. I compared your team list to all the pictures in the Buffs and Teams thread and all seem to fit the theory except for this one...
Ghandia's buff looks purple to me. This is also the clip where she says "we are going to kick the men's butts" or something to that effect. Since it looks like there is going to be the typical 4 men/4 women tribe to start, could this possibly be after a switch? If she is initially on the red team and swapped to the purple team there might be a very uneven split of sexes (think Neleh, Sarah, Gina and Pappy.) THEN, she might say that they are going to "kick the men's butts." This would also imply that Ghandia sticks around for a while. Thoughts??
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 03:21 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Icis, this was bugging me, too, but these two things can be explained.
1. Ghandia's buff looks purple to me.
It did to me at first, but compare the blow up of the buff itself to Erin's purple buff  
The only portion of Ghandia's buff that is visible is the logo portion. The logo is rather large and incorporates all of the S5 colors, so her buff could be red or purple and we wouldn't be able to tell from that vidcap.
2. This is also the clip where she says "we are going to kick the men's butts" or something to that effect.
This is probably classic MB editing. This sound bite could mean many different things. Not the least of which is the possibility of the whole sentence being "When Jeff said 'men on the right, women on the left', I thought 'we're gonna kick the men's butts'." It is obvious that CBS wants us to think that it's a battle of the sexes. The website is set up by gender. The promos show the men coming in on one boat and the women on another and have Jeff's segregational commentary. They've gone out of their way to not show women with red buffs and men with purple buffs (though a couple snuck through). They've also gone out of their way not to show footage of women and men interacting. However, we have no footage of purple buffed Erin, Penny, Shii Ann, and Stephanie with any other women. The same can be said of Ghandia, Tanya, Jan, and Helen, all of whom are of indeterminate buff. The same can also be said of the men. The men with red buffs (Brian, John, Clay and Ted) have zero interaction in any vidcaps with the "non-clad" men (Jake, Jed, Robb, and Ken--who got nailed with a purple buff on his arm)
Since it looks like there is going to be the typical 4 men/4 women tribe to start, could this possibly be after a switch?
I would doubt it. We know they haven't added any days to the shoot based on the news regarding Tanya and her father. We also can tell by facial hair, weight loss, cleanliness of clothing, etc. that the footage these vidcaps are based on was taken before the first challenge. MB is twisted, but I seriously doubt he would have women set up one camp, men set up another, have a switch on day 2, and then have a challenge on day 3. Of course, with MB anything is possible... This would also imply that Ghandia sticks around for a while. Based on the fact that Ghandia's hair and clothing don't give the appearance that this comment was given well into the game. I'll stick by my above theory that this was a confessional given probably on day 1 or 2. Therefore, IMO, I don't think it has any spoiler value in terms of Ghandia's longevity.
Fester
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ycartdraw 46 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 04:04 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Pics 3 & 4 are actually the same pic, just a broader view in 3. If you look close you can see steph bending down just like in #4 far away on the other side of the big rock thing.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 05:41 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-28-02 AT 05:42 PM (EST)Unless I'm looking at a different feature than you are pointing to, the ocean doesn't line up for those to be the same pic; however, they could have been shot simultaneously from different angles.
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ZealousElijah 7 desperate attention whore postings
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08-28-02, 10:55 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Why couldn't the pictures of the survivors on the same beach be taken after merge?But, I'd hate to see a male-female split and I think that the media has been hyping it up to much... so I'm rather sure that it's one of MB's spins.
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DeclaringJihadOnSurvivor 60 desperate attention whore postings
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08-29-02, 07:48 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Wouldn't that be a bit too obvious of a spoiler for us this early in the game?
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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08-29-02, 09:46 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Media day is usually around day 4 or 5, and we have yet to see that material from the media; so pragmatically at this stage of promotions it wouldn't make sense to release material shot considerably after media day. We can expect that what we are seeing now was shot before media day, on media day, or after media day by as much as (let's say) 4 days.
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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08-30-02, 01:10 PM (EST)
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14. ""Red Tribe" analysis" |
LAST EDITED ON 08-30-02 AT 01:11 PM (EST)Regarding the “Red” tribe, while we don’t have conclusive, smoking gun evidence that these 8 players are all together. Here is the circumstantial evidence we do have: * Clay, Ted, and Brian can be linked together. All have red buffs, and all have been vidcapped together. * John has been vidcapped with a red buff as well, and can be linked to Ted with vidcaps from what appears to be the waterhole.  
* We have the vidcap of Ghandia, Tanya, and Jan laying on the white covering. It could, theoretically, be John’s Christian flag.
* We have a vidcap of Tanya by a fallen tree. This looks very much like the fallen tree where Clay, Ted, and Brian are playing golf. Whether it’s the same tree or not, none of the Sook-Jai crew are shot in any jungle remotely this dense.  
* We have Jan and Tanya in front of a high rock face. The same can be said of Ted and Brian. The same cannot be said of any Sook-Jai members.    
* Therefore, we have Clay, Ted, and Brian linked to Tanya. We have Ted linked to John. We have Ted and Brian linked to Jan and Tanya. And we have Ghandia and Tanya linked to Jan. By my math that means that Clay, Ted, Brian, John, Tanya, Jan, and Ghandia all have ties, AND none of them has ties to anyone from the Sook-Jai group.
* The only straggler is Helen. Here are a couple shots of her on the beach:  
To my eye, that beach is not Ao Jak beach (below). I say that because the coastline is more curvy, and the tree line does not match what I’ve seen of the south end of Ao Jak beach. Besides, unless the magic “twist” is that the tribes start out 9 to 7, process of elimination puts her in the Red tribe. Fester
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Stradl8r 11 desperate attention whore postings
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09-02-02, 11:37 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Hi, great post, id just like to throw my hat into the ring and point out that perhaps its as simple as a Samburu style male/female split, and Ghandia(a strong Gretchen style leader in my opinion) forms an alliance between the girls and claims that they will "kick the mens butts" as opposed to a full on tribe vs tribe situation. Im sure the division is aggravated by whatever segregation of genders that Probst is ordering at the start, but its my opinion that the reason we are seeing no male/female interaction in the vid's, is because the tribe is divided, and the male/female friction will be a major theme for Survivor 5, theres quite a high knucklehead factor among the men this year(golf clubs, skateboards!!!!), i think theyll clash with the women and we are way over analysing things
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Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings
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09-02-02, 12:39 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
I agree, Sami, that any M/F division will be brief.When I was in grade school, we often picked coed teams for various games by the simple expedient of each team captain picking a girl, then a boy, then a girl, etc. This resulted in teams being more or less equal in gender division & strength. (We drew straws or played pick-a-number for captains.) When teachers supervised this division, they often had the girls stand on one side and the boys on another. Something like this would be a new & interesting way to start the game. Everyone on each team would arrive with a public "rank", first picked to last picked--which could be interesting. (I remember how badly the last person picked always felt.) Anyway, this could be what MB has in mind, with his 'women on the left, men on the right' division.  Swami
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dcbrott99 9 desperate attention whore postings
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09-04-02, 11:06 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Looks like a pretty thorough analysis, though it could be that each tribe is in a similar looking area with similar resources and directions to build similar dwellings. Also, how is this for a thought: Have each tribe living together as usual with 4 men/4 women but in the competitions having the men competing against the women. Then, for the tribal council, having the men or women (whoever loses) go to vote off someone. Just a wild thought, but it is a possibility.
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GTmike 1255 desperate attention whore postings
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09-13-02, 01:12 AM (EST)
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21. "problems w/no M vs. F" |
Great analysis guys. I only have one problem with there NOT being a male/female tribe for a few days:1)There are A LOT of shots of the cast with NO buffs. This was extremely evident in the MTV promos that came out yesterday. Very rarely do you ever see a survivor w/o a buff on(normally) and yet there are lots of shots of cast w/o a buff on. It is hard to form a group/bond when you don't have your one unifying image/symbol in the form of a buff on. 2)Someone posted the idea that they are split up into M/F before they board the boats and then taken to the campsites. This would make sense and the caps that you see of the two boats are very soon after leaving the dock or port and after a minute or two in the water, the boats separate and then it is swim to your camp. 3)Ep. 2 is titled "The Great Divide." How about the fact that the M/F tribes are divided into their actual teams and they get their buffs. 4)I am not sure how many ep. are scheduled for this season, but the Survivor season starts one week earlier than when other primetime shows have their premiers. Depending on when the Survivor season ends, this could give Survivor an episode where no one is voted off yet and instead there is a Reward Challenge on the third day where the winners get food. A rule change could be that no one is voted off after the first 3 days. This would only work if the season ended when all other seasons ended and thus there would be that one extra episode.
Spoiling is like science, you may not prove your theory, but you help to focus others in the right direction
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addictedtoSB 46 desperate attention whore postings
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09-17-02, 03:05 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: problems w/no M vs. F" |
>4)I am not sure how many
>ep. are scheduled for this
>season, but the Survivor season
>starts one week earlier than
>when other primetime shows have
>their premiers. Depending on
>when the Survivor season ends,
>this could give Survivor an
>episode where no one is
>voted off yet and instead
>there is a Reward Challenge
>on the third day where
>the winners get food.
>A rule change could be
>that no one is voted
>off after the first 3
>days. This would only
>work if the season ended
>when all other seasons ended
>and thus there would be
>that one extra episode.
Sorry, but the extra week could also mean we get stuck with an episode of "never before seen" footage again.
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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
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09-17-02, 03:39 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Debunking the girl v boy" |
Thanks to the BigCheese at Surviiivor.Online chat with Jeff Probst...... Nomad_0024: Jeff is it true that it will be boys vs. girls? Jeff Probst: No. How's that for an answer? That's part of the fun that we like to have with the audience and we know the audience likes to have fun with us by guessing so with only two days left I can tell you it's not boys against girls and I wonder if you can guess what it might be....
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infinitesurvivor 62 desperate attention whore postings
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09-17-02, 06:05 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
LAST EDITED ON 09-17-02 AT 06:07 PM (EST)Today at 4:15 pm local time.
Probst said the men vs women is only, only, in the 1st act of the 1st episode.
Stephanie skinny dips in 1st 3 days, 1st episode.
Shiann hates herself, and he wonders if she'll use her bitchyness to her advantage.
One man (unnamed) starts off cocky, then becomes despondant, and he'll be an "under dog" to viewers, routing for him to get back in it.
All the players are cocky. In Africa, it was so dry and dusty, they spread thier sewage around to make it less dusty. I didn't see this posted anywhere else.
Edit: WCKG 105.9 fm radio. Spike M. filling in for Steve Dahl.
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bondt007 3413 desperate attention whore postings
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09-18-02, 02:08 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Debunking the All Male/All Female tribes myth" |
Looks like MB and Jiffy logged on and read this thread, and new the game was up... good job, Fester!
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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