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LoudmouthLee 294 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 11-27-01, 12:16 PM (EST) "MB's hiding of Frank." Granted, this has been the focal point of a couple of my previous threads, however, I believe that it deserves it's own. I believe it may garner some VERY ineteresting information. Below is a excerpt from AyaK's closed caption thread-- in regards to Episode #5. >> Probst: I'll go tally the votes. Once the votes are read, the decision is final. The person will be asked to leave the Tribal Council area immediately. I'll read the votes. First vote, Silas. Silas. Silas. The fourth and deciding vote, Silas. No need to read the other two. You need to bring me your torch, Silas. Silas, the tribe has spoken. It's time for you to go. But wait. There WAS a need to read the other two. Silas's vote was unknown. Although there was much thought that he was campaining for a vote against Frank... However.. if YOU were playing, wouldn't a part of you wonder.. Was that vote for me? Frank's vote is unknown. The week Frank was supposed to go, Frank was saved by a manaical MB by instituting the 3-fer switch. It was said by Silas a number of times that Frank was left, and Theresa was going to be saved. Now. Obviously, to me... the bond that Frank and Theresa have will not be turned on. Casual Fans turn the show off before the end votes are read. Do you know of any casual fans? Ask them how many votes Frank has. The answer, to them, is a resounding zero. So... by assuming that Frank is safe... Teresa is safe. Maybe I'm crazy. I dont see any Samburu going next week. Visit my homepage: http://www.geocities.com/loudmouthlee/   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. zzz 11-27-01 1    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Fast Eddie 11-27-01 2        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. zzz 11-27-01 5            RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Fast Eddie 11-27-01 17    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. LoudmouthLee 11-27-01 3        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. zzz 11-27-01 6    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Canada Girl 11-27-01 4    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. PepeLePew13 11-27-01 14        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. zzz 11-27-01 16            logic & spoilers mavsfan 11-27-01 19                Sooner not Next Krautboy 11-27-01 20                    Sooner not Next mavsfan 11-29-01 23                        RE: Sooner not Next simone 11-30-01 29            RE: MB's hiding of Frank. PepeLePew13 11-28-01 21  I'm Curious LML red 11-27-01 7  RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Naked 11-27-01 8    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. red 11-27-01 9        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. PepeLePew13 11-27-01 13    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. zzz 11-27-01 10        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. red 11-27-01 11            RE: MB's hiding of Frank. PepeLePew13 11-27-01 15        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. MikeD 11-27-01 12        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Naked 12-05-01 34  Coquina's editing theory red 11-27-01 18    RE: Coquina's editing theory zzz 11-28-01 22        RE: Coquina's editing theory Rose Red 11-29-01 24            Nice post, Rose weltek 11-29-01 25                RE: Nice post, Rose red 11-29-01 26                    RE: Nice post, Rose PepeLePew13 11-29-01 27                        RE: Nice post, Rose Loree 11-29-01 28                            RE: Nice post, Rose Rose Red 11-30-01 31                                RE: Nice post, Rose Loree 11-30-01 32                                RE: Nice post, Rose wendyp 11-30-01 33                    RE: Nice post, Rose simone 11-30-01 30  RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Sexy Spearchucker 12-05-01 35    L/E/F/T Rose Red 12-05-01 36    Anyone else bothered by the name "S... Rube 12-05-01 37        RE: Anyone else bothered by the nam... zzz 12-05-01 38            RE: Anyone else bothered by the nam... Rube 12-05-01 39                Re: Name "Sexy Spearchucker" Sexy Spearchucker 12-06-01 44                    Hey Sexy MakeItStop 12-06-01 45    RE: MB's hiding of Frank. dabo 12-05-01 40        RE: MB's hiding of Frank. Rose Red 12-05-01 41            Possible betrayals from Boran NorthOfBoston 12-06-01 42                RE: Possible betrayals from Boran dabo 12-06-01 43

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zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 12:31 PM (EST) 1. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Lee-- I think we have had this discussion before, but you felt the need to start a new thread on the subject so I will add my thoughts again. First, I agree that not reading Franks vote was an attempt to help him and I also agree that Jeff P is basically lying when he says there is no need to read the rest of the votes (no need to decide THAT TC, but a big need to know who to target in later TCs--pure MB manipulation). However, I just don't follow the rest of your logic. Even if MB wants to protect Frank, he has done all he could. He did the twist and he hid Frank's vote from Silas. Now it is up to Frank. There is not much more MB can do other than try to give ICs that he thinks Frank can win--but eventually Frank will lose one. I also don't see how MB can give Frank the power to protect Teresa. You may insist that editing shows that Frank stays. I am not as good as you at "reading" MB's editing theories to determine who will go next. I resort to relying on spoilers and logic. My logic tells me that either Teresa or Frank would be the only sensible targets in the next TC. So far, my logic has been pretty good at narrowing down the possibilities; I just keep picking wrong among the few possibilities I see. I have a hard time imagining a scenario in which one of the old Boran feel this is the time to switch sides. It is possible, but I just don't think it happens. I think an old Samburu goes, and I think it is either Teresa or Frank. Please explain in a little more detail why you think Lex or someone else switches at this point (including the person's endgame--not just the short-term desire to eliminate competition).   Top

Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 12:37 PM (EST) 2. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." I >agree that not reading Franks >vote was an attempt to >help him I don't think so. Jeff has always stopped reading the votes once a majority was reached, right from S1. BUt I think all votes should always be read.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 01:57 PM (EST) 5. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Hey Eddie-- I think it is very clear that MB and Jeff P arrange the votes off camera. Typically the only votes that are NOT shown are pile-on votes for the "loser." Occasionally, however, MB decides to "hide" a vote for no apparent reason. Frank's vote was one of those times. If you think Jeff P just picks votes out at random--you are mistaken. Jeff P has stated in interviews that MB and Jeff P arrange the votes off camera to be pulled out in a set order. So MB had it completely in his power whether to show Frank's vote or not and chose not to in order to protect him (I think that is the reason). For example, MB could have arranged for Frank's vote to be the second one shown. I think it is BS that sometimes they show all but the pile-on votes and other times they hide other votes. Their approach is reaonable if prior votes never mattered--but they do. I think it is really crappy of MB to affect the game this way--and it is clear that he is affecting the game this way. By the way, occasionally Jeff P has read extra vote (like when Gretchen was eliminated in S1--again to try to affect the game and expose the Evil Tagi Alliance). So yes, you are correct that in general Jeff stops when he get a majority--but you are wrong that MB did not have it entirely in his power whether Frank's vote would be shown or not.   Top

Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 07:17 PM (EST) 17. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." LAST EDITED ON 11-27-01 AT 07:20 PM (EST) >but you >are wrong that MB did >not have it entirely in >his power whether Frank's vote >would be shown or not. No I'm not... because I never said anything like that. I contended only that Jeff always stops at majority. Whether irrelevant (to the ouster) votes are shown or not is indeed open to manipulation. Which is why I believe they should all be shown. Edit: I just went back and looked again. I can see how you would take what you said from what I wrote. But that was not my intent. I'll have to reread what I write more carefully.   Top

LoudmouthLee 294 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 11-27-01, 12:38 PM (EST) 3. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Hiya ZZZ- I'm an attention whore... so it's all the same. I just find it interesting. Especially since when the GenXers were thriving.. they made it clear that they WANTED to keep Teresa. Brandon does not seem to be a stupid kid. LilKim's a sheep. Could anyone be swayed away from the oldborons? I personally think so. Also.. do you think that Lex and Kelly will be voting together? I dont see it happening. I see a 4-4-1 tie, actually. With the throwaway vote being to "Lex" again, from Kelly. Kelly - Lex Old Samburus - Tom (Brandon and Kim are keenly aware of Tom's prior votes) Old Borons (minus Kelly) - Brandon Does this seem so far fetched? I really dont see it being far Fetched at all. Visit my homepage: http://www.geocities.com/loudmouthlee/   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 02:02 PM (EST) 6. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Lee-- Four questions. 1--On the revote in your scenario when Kelly MUST vote only for Tom or Brandon, are you assuming she votes against Tom (as you know in a tie vote there is a revote between the tied people so Kelly must in the end vote against either Tom or Brandon in your scenario)? 2--Why do you think Kelly will not vote with Lex (she did in E7)? 3--Why would old Samburu taget Tom rather than Lex as Teresa did in E7? 4--Before you thought that Lex would betray Tom in E8, does this scenario mean you have changed your mind?   Top

Canada Girl 3340 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 11-27-01, 12:40 PM (EST) 4. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." <<There is not much more MB can do other than try to give ICs that he thinks Frank can win--but eventually Frank will lose one.<< I think we've already seen some MB Frank "help" with the Bow and Arrow challenge. Yes, Frank's team won. But how did Frank do??? Not so great...   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-27-01, 05:20 PM (EST) 14. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." ZZZ -- >However, I just don't follow the rest of your logic. >Even if MB wants to protect Frank, he has done >all he could. He did the twist and he >hid Frank's vote from Silas. Now it is up >to Frank. There is not much more MB can >do other than try to give ICs that he thinks >Frank can win--but eventually Frank will lose one. I >also don't see how MB can give Frank the power >to protect Teresa. A thought here... if Frank was going to be the next boot (or the next after Teresa is booted next ep.) ... then why wouldn't MB try to continue and edit Frank as a nice guy building on the previous 3 or so episodes, keep the goofy scenes out so that it becomes more of a surprise that Frank gets booted? Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this (and Lee's thought on this as well). >My logic tells me that either Teresa or Frank would be >the only sensible targets in the next TC. >I have a hard time imagining a scenario ... >Please explain in a little more detail ... I notice you use these type of terms a LOT. MB wants us to think someone is going to go logically so that we're all thrown for a loop when something happens that we don't foresee. Lindsey did go as most people predicted, but MB likely threw us a bone there as there was nothing the editing really could have done there, but the previous few weeks before Linda, we were buffaloed by the editing. As you've said, "So far, my logic has been pretty good at narrowing down the possibilities; I just keep picking wrong among the few possibilities I see." We need to sometimes step out and look beyond the obvious. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 06:05 PM (EST) 16. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Pepe-- >A thought here... if Frank was >going to be the next >boot (or the next after >Teresa is booted next ep.) >... then why wouldn't MB >try to continue and edit >Frank as a nice guy >building on the previous 3 >or so episodes, keep the >goofy scenes out so that >it becomes more of a >surprise that Frank gets booted? > Just wanted to hear >your thoughts on this (and >Lee's thought on this as >well). This question is exactly what I mean when I say I am not that good at reading the "editing". As far as I have seen, people are sometimes made more likeable right before a boot (Jerri), sometimes made less likeable right before a boot (Silas), and sometimes even ignored right before a boot (Amber). MB only has the tape he has to work with. He cannot invent things that did not happen (although he can digitally alter buff colors), and he wants each episode to be as interesting as possible. There was a very intelligent poster back in S1 on the old SurvivorSucks board, I think her name was Coquina or something like that, who emphasized how MB is telling a "story". Her theory, however, led her to believe that there was no way Rich was the winner because a good story never has the villain victorious. I found the theory tempting (and wanted to believe Rich would not win--I am still waiting for someone to say it was all a joke and Kelly really won the final vote), but part of me felt that MB was just trying to make each episode interesting, and Rich's obnoxious comments were really entertaining. Of course, it also made his victory more of a surprise, which MB loves. I just cannot figure out by the editing who is going to go next. I just cannot see a pattern in the editing. I prefer to use logic and spoilers, as I stated above and will explain further below. > > >>My logic tells me that either Teresa or Frank would be >>the only sensible targets in the next TC. >>I have a hard time imagining a scenario ... >>Please explain in a little more detail ... > >I notice you use these type >of terms a LOT. >MB wants us to think >someone is going to go >logically so that we're all >thrown for a loop when >something happens that we don't >foresee. Lindsey did go >as most people predicted, but >MB likely threw us a >bone there as there was >nothing the editing really could >have done there, but the >previous few weeks before Linda, >we were buffaloed by the >editing. As you've said, >"So far, my logic has >been pretty good at narrowing >down the possibilities; I just >keep picking wrong among the >few possibilities I see." >We need to sometimes step >out and look beyond the >obvious. OK--let me explain what I mean by logic and spoilers. What I mean by spoilers is pretty obvious--we as a group often get information from vidcaps and interviews that help narrow the possibilties--but of course this stuff has burned us too (e.g., Teresa boot). By logic, I do not mean that I buy into MB's editing to lead me to who might be booted. I look at the things that MB CANNOT control--the voting at TC and their personal motivations given what we have been shown. Through this method, I feel I can narrow down the likely possibilities, but not the ultimate conclusion. I am not saying I am the only one who can do this, I just think I have a pretty logical approach. Carl's boot is the closest thing to a surprise I have seen (I thought it would be Frank before Carl--but their logic for picking Carl actually made good sense and if I were really thinking should have seen it). The week Silas went--I felt that Lindsey and Silas were most vulnerable, I just had not basis to pick between them. The week Lindsey went--it was obvious she was vulnerable but I let the Diane spoiler lead me to conclude it was Teresa because it made more sense if they were the next 2 that Teresa go first (of course they were not the next 2). The week Clarence went--I was fooled into thinking there would not be a merge (again by false spoilers) but stated that if there was a merge the target would likely be Frank or maybe Clarence. I thought tribal loyalty might make Frank a bigger target, but I knew Clarence was a likely boot. If anyone other than Frank or Clarence had been booted after I knew there was a merge, I would have been surprised. The twist could only have been a swap or three tribes. We had too much information that was consistent only with one of those two approaches. I thought it was three tribes, but at the time I said if it were not three tribes it had to be a swap. There were intelligent posters (like IceCat I believe) who thought it was simply an early merge. I would have been absolutely shocked if it had been merely an early merge. That just was completely inconsistent with reliable information we had (in the promos and the TV Guide articles). So while logic could not tell me that it was a 3-3 swap, it was able to tell me what it could NOT be. My point is that there are boots that would have SHOCKED me. For example, if KimJ had been booted (or any weak player) in E7, I would have been very surprised. There were too many strong targets, it would have been dumb to go after a weak target. That is why I think Brandon is safe for a while. Others are being "fooled" by the editing into thinking he is so disliked that he will go. I think that based on actual voting pattern of the Boran folks, it is the strong that will go first and Brandon is just weaker than others. That does not tell me who is seen by the Boran as the biggest threat (MB can hide this), and of course I cannot know who gets immunity, but I think it narrows it to Frank or Teresa. My basis of why I think that a Boran will not switch is again based on something MB cannot control--past votes and behavior. If Kelly or KimJ thought their future was not with the Boran tribe, they would have behaved differently already (e.g., Kelly would have gone with the GXA and KimJ would not have signaled Kelly about Lindsey's prior votes). These are things that MB cannot really control. The main time I can remember my logic being completely fooled was Jerri's boot. I thought they could not boot her then because Amber would be able to join with Nick, Liz and Rodger to take over control of the game--I could not imagine that someone could be as dumb as a stump like Amber. It was certainly a risk that Colby, Tina and Keith took, but I guess they knew how stupid Amber was and that she would not able to form an alliance with the rest. This example is instructive, however, in how difficult it is to shift alliances. I generally believe people switch only if they have NO real choice. It is hard to trust someone that is betraying their former allies. We have seen betrayals in every Survivor series, but we have NEVER seen a true realignment of alliances (as much as MB wants this), and I think this is because this is really hard to successfully pull off. Sorry this post has gotten so long--but I have tried to answer your questions.   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 09:49 PM (EST) 19. "logic & spoilers" This is an excellent explanation of how logic helps to spoil the show. All of us use logic to determine which tid bits of information to include in our spoiling of the show and which to regect. Sometimes we can ferret out good information such as Mikes burn pictures. Sometimes we discount good information such as the Ranch photo from SII. And sometimes we depend on good information that eventually playes out such as Diane's email list (still puzzled by that one). But logic is the foundation that I think most all of us use to try and distinguish between good spoilers and garbage. When faced this season with the scarcity of spoilers I think all we have to fall back on is trying to determine alliances, tendencies, and logical play by the players. The players aren't there to try and surprise us, or do things that are interesting, different, shocking. They are there to win $1,000,000. With that kind of motivation I think we should continue to depend on logic. Case in point: Kelly isn't going to switch to Boran and vote out Lex UNLESS the thinks it INCREASES her chance to win the $1,000,000. As long as Kelly THINKS she's in a stable 3 person alliance (Kelly - MommaKim - Ethan) then she isn't going to switch sides. The same could be said for ANY Boran. Since it appears all of Boran SEEM to think they are in a 3 person alliance (Kelly - MommaKim - Ethan & Tom - Lex - Ethan) none of them are going to throw away a chance at $1,000,000. So no one defects to Sambura, so Logic tells us a Sambura leaves next. We also can expect the Boran to target the Sambura that is the biggest threat to them reaching $1,000,000 and I think this has to be Frank or Theresa. I think Logic will let us determine between Frank and Theresa that the one to be sent packing will be Frank. Consider, on the CBS website there is a poll asking who's going to be the next voted out Brandon, Lex or Frank. I think the CBS website is probably more interested in giving the average viewer the oppurtunity to interact with the SURVIVOR game, and to drive excitement/speculation among the casual viewer than they are in defeating spoilers. If CBS offers the choice of Brandon, Lex or Frank and then Theresa gets voted out, the casual viewer will wonder why even bother going to the CBS website and voting at all THEY DIDN'T EVEN GIVE US THE CHOICE OF THERESA!!! This would hurt traffic to the site, not help it. So, CBS I think is giving us a choice between the person who really does go and 2 false picks. These 2 pieces of information together should tell us that Frank goes next. This kind of disappoints me, I'm one of the few viewers that actually likes Frank. I guess I'll take comfort for now in knowing I've been wrong an awfull lot this season.   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 11-27-01, 10:56 PM (EST) 20. "Sooner not Next" LAST EDITED ON 11-27-01 AT 10:58 PM (EST) >Consider, on the CBS website there >is a poll asking who's >going to be the next >voted out Brandon, Lex or >Frank. Mavsfan, the CBS poll asks "Who is more likely to be voted out SOONER?" It does NOT ask who will be voted out NEXT...(Theresa) As has been discussed in the "What's behind the editing?", http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/cgi-bin/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1864&forum=DCForumID2&omm=0 CBS is trying to involve the viewers, while at the same time, keep them guessing. The editing of previews, and the website itself, is intended to mislead and in turn, surprise and delight the audience...sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. >So, CBS I think is giving >us a choice between the >person who really does go >and 2 false picks. I think CBS is simply asking, of the three listed, who do you think will be voted out sooner than the other two. Or in other words, after Teresa gets voted out this week, which of these three will be next? CBS wants us to jump to the conclusion you've reached...and hopefully when Frank is still around you'll be delighted. I know I will... Krautboy   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-29-01, 01:23 AM (EST) 23. "Sooner not Next" Thanks Krautboy. You've saved me from continuing to embarass my self by incorrectly quoting the CBS poll, it's very much appreciated. And yes, hopefully Frank will survive anouther week.   Top

simone 52 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-30-01, 01:18 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Sooner not Next" I was also questioning myself for having a soft spot for Frank. There's just something about him - I think it's that he's SO socially inept. I hope he can hang on and not scare everybody off for a little while longer.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-28-01, 07:12 AM (EST) 21. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Thanks, ZZZ... that helps to get some more insight behind your line of thinking when breaking down each episode. I just can't help but think that MB's new direction of making Frank appear strange and not including his "I never" comments on TV (as we saw in the Insider making him look like he fit in) to mean that Frank is safe because MB wants people to focus on him and ta daa we're surprised that he stays. Yet at the same time it could just be a means to justify the "need" to boot him next episode so viewers wouldn't feel so 'upset' about him being gone. Hell, I just don't know about all the editing. I was thinking that the only way to really break down traditional tribal voting patterns is to have the usual 8-8 split into two tribes from the first episode BUT they share the same camp right away. This way, people can mingle and get to know each other and still compete in separate tribes for competition and voting purposes. This might really mix things up and lead to less Pagonging by one old tribe while still keeping intact the great Survivor spirit of tribal competitions before the merge. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-27-01, 02:09 PM (EST) 7. "I'm Curious LML" So you are saying that you think editing patterns would indicate tom goes next? You think his story is over? You haven't really explained why you choose him - simply because you think it will be Boran and he's most likely. Or are there other reasons for choosing Tom? I've gotta hand it to you - I've never read MB's editing correctly. Right now I'm betting on Brandon to go next.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 11-27-01, 03:43 PM (EST) 8. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Once again, In interviews from S1 and S2 survivors have said that ALL the votes where disclosed to the contestants. I believe that just because we didn't see Frank's vote on national television does not mean that Jeff P did not show them the vote tallies afterwards. This means that Franks vote IS known, and that he is the most likely candidate to be booted this week. Naked   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-27-01, 04:19 PM (EST) 9. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Help me out here - was there ever a time on S1 or S2 that the audience wasn't shown one of the votes and it was unclear who received votes, as with Silas? I'm not sure there is actually a precedent for this. Personally, I don't think they know Frank's vote. but if you could back up your statement by showing there was a hidden vote in prior seasons that, while the tv audience didn't know, the cast did, then I will believe this is possible.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-27-01, 05:00 PM (EST) 13. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." I remember during S1 there was a vote (I can't remember who were involved) where JiffyProbe stopped after the deciding vote was cast -- but the bootee's vote wasn't revealed yet. The only way I was able to find out how the vote went was to open up the CBS homepage and see what the voting pattern was. Also... remember in S2 in the first post-merger vote, Jeff Vermin was tied with Colby after the revote and he was asked by Jiffy how many prior votes he had. Vermin said "One that I know of" (he actually had two). One was enough to boot Vermin, but the point is that they DIDN'T KNOW who Kimmi (or Debb?) threw her vote to. You have to wonder... let's refresh what LML posted in his original post: >>Probst: I'll go tally the votes. Once the votes are read, the decision is final. The person will be asked to leave the Tribal Council area immediately. I'll read the votes. First vote, Silas. Silas. Silas. The fourth and deciding vote, Silas. No need to read the other two. You need to bring me your torch, Silas. Silas, the tribe has spoken. It's time for you to go. Now, why would Jiffy say this if they went ahead and showed the contestants the other votes later on off-camera? He could simply have gone right into telling Silas to bring his torch and that the tribe has spoken WITHOUT needing to say "No need to read the other two" if it was, in fact, true that the other contestants would later be shown the vote. This could really open up a can of worms in terms of a lawsuit if anyone was so inclined. Let's say Brandon gets booted in the next episode. It's an unanimous vote with B's vote going to Ethan. Then in the following episode, Ethan pisses Kelly off enough to make her switch over to the three remaining oldSamburus and they vote Ethan knowing he has one vote. The other 4 oldBorans think Kelly is with them and they vote Frank. Kelly, KimP, Teresa and Frank think they've got it in the bag with Ethan's one vote beating out Frank. Oops, Frank DOES have a vote after all. Ethan defeats Frank in the tiebreak. The 3 oldSams plus Kelly says "shoot! we should have gone for Lex or Tom instead!" Frank sues MB saying "if we knew for sure who Silas voted for, I'd still be in the game and I could have won the whole thing by Pagonging the oldBorans." Of course this is all based on supposition and not on what's likely going to happen, but you get the gist. They need to change the system and say something like "of the remaining votes, Silas gets one and Frank gets one, total is 5 for Silas" in order to insure it's as fair as possible. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-27-01, 04:23 PM (EST) 10. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." >Once again, In interviews from S1 >and S2 survivors have said >that ALL the votes where >disclosed to the contestants. I >believe that just because we >didn't see Frank's vote on >national television does not mean >that Jeff P did not >show them the vote tallies >afterwards. This means that Franks >vote IS known, and that >he is the most likely >candidate to be booted this >week. > Naked > Naked-- I would like to see those interviews because I have never heard of that. As a matter of fact, in S2, I distinctly remember Jeff V saying that he had one vote that he knew of when the audience knew he had 2. This is because Jeff P showed Deb's vote against Jeff V but did not show Kimmi's vote against Jeff V. Thus, Jeff V knew he had 1 vote but did not know (and was never told by Jeff P) that he had 2 votes. There was a deadlock tie between Colby and Jeff V. Colby had 0 prior votes, so the 1 Deb vote Jeff V knew about was enough to lose the deadlock. Jeff P asked Jeff V how many prior votes he had and he said "one that I know of" and Jeff P said "that is enough". I assume if the second vote were relavent, Jeff P would have disclosed it at the time of the deadlock (e.g., if Colby had prior votes). Someone correct me if my memory is incorrect, but I believe that this exchange pretty much proves that when Jeff P says "we don't need to see the rest of the votes" the rest of the votes are not shown to the players. Thus, Frank and the other players do NOT know for sure that Frank has a prior vote.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-27-01, 04:28 PM (EST) 11. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." zzz, you're exactly right. I remember this exactly the same way. And also, when Tom was asked how many votes he had he said "none that I know of" as well. So the contestants are well aware that just because they don't KNOW they have votes, it is possible that they do. but your JeffV example pretty much clarifies it all.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-27-01, 05:23 PM (EST) 15. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." zzz, red... thanks for confirming this. I hadn't read your posts yet when I typed up my now-redundant post in post #13 above, although I did add a part about opening up a can of worms with a potential lawsuit regarding the unannounced votes. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 11-27-01, 04:31 PM (EST) 12. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." Unfortunately, I think the next couple of episodes will be pretty predictable (the Samburus getting voted out). I dont think Frank's previous vote had anything to do with anything (other than maybe MB hiding it because he likes Frank and wants him to stick around for awhile - this goes hand in hand with the breaking up of the young people alliance to make sure Silas and Lindsey dont win the game). I would FREAKING LOVE it if a Boran switched sides, but thats not likely to happen...   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 12-05-01, 00:50 AM (EST) 34. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." zzz, I spent some time looking up old interviews this week, but I could not find the ones that I remember reading about this subject. Tina was one of the people questioned about the votes, and there was also another guy, (possibly Jeff as per the situation that you just described.) I remeber distictly though that they both confirmed that the votes WERE disclosed to everyone at every tribal council. This does not mean that MB is still doing it this way for S3, but I believe that they are. If or when Frank gets the boot, maby someone can ask him in his chat. Sorry to post with no proof.... I'll try and keep looking if I have the time. Naked   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-27-01, 07:36 PM (EST) 18. "Coquina's editing theory" I always have and always will believe that there are clues to be found in the editing. Coquina and I both misread the editing of S1 to believe that portraying Richard as a villain must mean he doens't win. We were wrong, but we were reading the way the characters were portrayed to determine who might likely win Survivor. when all was said and done, we saw that Rich had always been the star of the show. But I dont' think you can say that about Tina. both were underdogs early in the game. Where I keep going with this one is Ethan. He seems like the star of the show, but he's also portrayed sympathetically. If there's an underdog to root for, its Frank. Its probably too early to try to read the winner into the editing - but these two both interest me. the other side to the editing is who goes each individual week. We've talked about it all - finishing someone's story, a big increse in face time, and red herrings in the previews so that whoever was made to seem a likely target was not the one to go. I like to think I'm a little better at reading these clues (although most likelty not). This is where this gets me (and this is, in fact, my main approach to spoiling along with general strategy logic). Strategy logic says a Samburu goes next. The two biggest threats are Frank and Teresa. Editing leads me to believe that Frank is not done yet. Unlike Nick or Amber, Frank is a guy with LOTS of personality and conflict who really hasn't been prominently portayed. Compare him to Clarence. Clarence has had WAY more face time in the game, and I don't think Clarence is nearly as interesting or controversial as Frank. I think if Frank was going next week, MB would have been milking the drama he's been creating much more along the way. I also have a gut feeling that Ethan has something going on with him. Now, to me, the obvious boot would be Teresa. And I may put my money on her. she pissed off Lex and made herself an immunity threat - and she's one of the four that has to go. But again, I felt that last week's episode was setting her up for a story that might have a two or three episode arc. I'm also thrown off by the trailer - was it purely throwing a Lex red herring or a Teresa red herring also? the fact that she was so prominent makes me think she lasts, but that could be wrong. But then, if we follow the increase in face time theory it should be one of them. Unless its Brandon...Again, here's an interesting person who hasn't really had a story per se. But at the same time, I don't get the same feeling that he's being set up for an arc that the oher two are. And he has had an increase in face time. I'm torn between Brandon and Teresa. Personally, I'd rather see Teresa go. Part of me feels that Brandon has much more tv character potential than she does - and we may have seen her story's climax last week. I haven't decided yet.   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-28-01, 10:03 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Coquina's editing theory" red-- I think you have pointed out exactly why I try not to be influenced too much by "editing" in making my analysis. Rich was the star--Tina was not. I think Rich would have been editing exactly the same way if he had lost to Kelly, and I think Kelly also would have been edited exactly the same way. I do not think "editing" really helps in determining these things. Tina was not the star in part because she just did not do or say that many interesting things. As I said before, MB cannot invent material. I think that editing can often lead to opposite conclusions. For example, people say Frank got a pick up in screen time last week. That could mean MB is starting a story arc that is not played out. That could mean MB is setting Frank up to be voted out next. Exactly--it could mean either thing. We will only know after the fact. And, I think there is a good chance MB would have done the same thing either way because Frank did something MB found interesting at that point so MB showed it. Early in the game people get increased face time before being booted, but sometimes only in the actual boot episode. However, by the time of the vote, the audience generally is led to know it is one of two people, and both generally get increased face time that episode, so even face time is not enough to determine the boot. Later in the season, pretty much everyone gets more face time because there are less people (unless, like Amber or Nick, you never say or do anything interesting). I have never seen anyone consistently use face time to predict future boots accurately--although for some reason people keep trying. I also think that what people say about others is generally the most misleading factor. People focus on things like: Tom hates Brandon, Tom likes Teresa, Kelly hates Lex, etc. While these statement must be considered, more often than not they are misleading. Colby repeatedly talked about not liking Keith (and probably liked Rodger, Liz and Amber more than Keith), but Colby kept Keith to the final 3 because Colby needed Keith (although admittedly this dislike caused Colby to give $900,000 to Tina in the end so it was relavent). That is why I pay attention to what they say--but I look much more at what they do. MB can choose to include different things that they say, but has a harder time hiding what they do (particularly how they voted in the past). Voting patterns show strategy, and people tend to keep a strategy that seems to be working.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-29-01, 03:07 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Coquina's editing theory" Well, zzz, Once again you've brought up one of the most interesting paradoxes on Survivor, the Richard vs. Tina editing. If you're writing or filming a movie,(and I think MB thinks of this as his "Gone With The Wind","Ten Commandments", etc.) then one of the primary rules of filmmaking is YOU FOLLOW THE STAR THROUGH THE STORY. Which is precisely what MB did with Richard. Nobody thought he would win because the homophobia directed at him and his "character" by the media, never mind the other contestants, was so overwhelming. But Richard, the winner, was hidden in plain sight. No one thought he would ever win because A GAY PERSON CAN NOT BE A WINNER! An effeminate man is ALWAYS a villain. It had never happened before in the history of television.(Note: Watch out for Brandon now, folks, to emerge in unexpected ways.) In S2, MB had two stars, actually, IMHO, Jerri and then Colby, and MB followed them both through the story, too. Somebody,a Survivor fan, said to me last night in Chelsea, "But I loved Jerri! I loved to hate her! There's nobody to hate this season! I don't care about any of them enough to hate them." At least, Jerri made people FEEL something, even if it was absolute REVULSION. To engage viewers on ANY level is considered great television,because, let's face it, most of the time you just don't CARE. Jerri had charisma(perhaps too much for her own good) and then she was gone, and then the editing switched to the true star of the series, Colby, and it followed him RELENTLESSLY through all his immunity wins. Colby on horseback in the rain, Colby scuba-diving off the coral reef. It was all Colby, Colby, Colby. MB needed a true star, and he had own and he featured him for all he was worth and the viewers agreed and tuned in in record numbers, making it the #1 Show. And then, at the end, with the Final Two not immediately revealed, I think THAT'S when MB decided to start hiding nearly EVERYTHING of Tina's that he could. We didn't see her in Jerri's kids alliance.I didn't even KNOW she was in it, until Tina mentioned it in a subsequent interview, after she had won. We didn't see her super-finicky eating habits. She didn't see her get angry, ever, and evidently she has quite a temper. And we never, never saw her and Colby having a tender moment, like they did on the final episode. Except for that one scene where they were playing Backgammon. They didn't say much, but I remember thinking, Hmmmm, they really seem to like each other. They seemed so surprisingly in sync. MB also wanted Tina's win to be a SURPRISE. And it was. To me, at any rate, and also a lot of the rest of the country. This version is more like S2, I think in terms of the editing. Things are being hidden. Ethan's alliances for instance, and also, say, what Lex thinks of certain people, like Kelly. That we've been Kelly-ed to death on Survivor Insider says that what she's saying isn't reliable.Or essential. Tina Wesson in her column this week in US WEEKLY magazine, just went OFF on Kelly. She's despises her as being two-faced and mean.(Oh, and yeah, like you weren't, Tina?) And says once the rest of the tribe finds out what Kelly is REALLY like, she's gone. Hmmmm.... I guess Tina felt they NEVER found out what she was really like. After all she ended up with no votes, if you remember. I think last week's episode was crucial in terms of the editing. Yes, either Frank or Teresa could go, but I think that elephant dance of Frank actually showed him waving BYE-BYE. He's gone if he doesn't win immunity. And I think Teresa stays because now she's got a story - She's the rabal rouser and also perhaps Tom's Helen of Troy. Although that story may play out VERY fast this week with Teresa being the toasted one. I really felt Frank's story was finished last week. He got enought face-time to launch his OWN series. Also,the animal symbolism again. When I saw Clarence get beaucoup screen time with THE CHICKENS, I said, "That's it! He's going next week!" And he did. The editing of that episode made him seem like a better person. He was funny. He was warm. He was charming, and smarter than he had ever been shown. He was dealing with the tribe in a fair and balanced manner. It was like MB making his piece with him. It reminded me of the last year's recrap, when they reconsituted Jerri. I said, "Oh, they're saying good-bye to her now. She's being shown to have sympathetic moments. She can't stay. The drama is gone." Also, they really didn't HAVE to show CB taking a S**T. Another television first. Like Lindsey's period. But also that made him more vulnerable with the elephants... No, Frank,the elephant man is waving good-bye to us all,and Teresa is going to emerge as a VERY tricky and wiley player. But I don't think she wins, either. The mystery man of the editing is still Ethan, y'all. He had almost less screen time than the invisible woman, Kim Pee.   Top

weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-29-01, 04:52 PM (EST) 25. "Nice post, Rose" I agree with most of what you said, Rose. For some reason, people think that Frank is a story waiting to happen. I think his story is done. Frank isn't that interesting, nor that charismatic. He is a simple military man. He's not a drill sargeant with a temper, he's not a highly sophisticated talker, he's just "simple folk". He has been recently shown to have a real good heart and has now been shown as a loner. Well lookie there, the public begins to really like Frank. Looks like it's time to say goodbye. What else does his story have to offer? Nothing in my opinion. I think MB had to do some hard, creative editing to even develop Frank as much as he did.   Top

red 140 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 11-29-01, 05:23 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Nice post, Rose" I also thought your post was very nice, Rose. However, I am going to differ on whether or not Frank is interesting. It seems from the moment he landed in Africa, he did nothing but create conflict. Since conflict is the root of all drama, one could conclude that Frank is actually an interesting character. I feel like we've heard a lot of people talk about conflict with Frank, but have actually seen relatively very little. It seems odd how absent Frank has been in comparison to Clarence, who seemed to be another player who instigated a lot of conflict in his tribe. Clarence was basically starring on Survivor until he got booted. And I'm not sure that Clarence is that interesting himself - just the conflict around him is interesting. If anyone got an increase in face time last week it was Teresa. And I'd be willing to bet that however sweet she may be, sweet does not necessarily make for good drama. (Hence why she'd been absent until now) I also think that T proved herself the biggest immunity threat, and if she's plotting against Boran then she's also a strategic threat. Plus, she voted against Lex. Oh, and there's the fact that CBS isnt' even listing her as one of their "who goes first?" options. I'm banking on Teresa at this point.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-29-01, 05:57 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Nice post, Rose" I hate to admit it but I think you may very well be correct, red. I would rather see Teresa stay longer and see a Boran (i.e. Kelly) switch over to boot Tom or Lex and add more drama and excitement to the show. But I can understand the logic made by both yourself and Rose Red about why Frank would stay and why Frank would go, respectively, and I believe that they're hiding Frank for a good reason - to build up his story further for future episodes while they didn't hide Clarence at all (and see ya on safari, Clarence). Teresa got the spike in face time and made herself look like a big target, like you said... so she makes sense to be the next bootee. I'd be happy, though, if this is incorrect. "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-29-01, 06:28 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Nice post, Rose" I think MamaKim is the one that I seem to be forgetting about lately. We saw a fair amount of her at first because she was weak and we expected her to go next (before that switch). But ever since the switch she has seemed to blend back into the background. I don't know what exactly she is planning or who she feels close to or wants to boot. She mentioned that she didn't like it that Lex told her who to vote for. But that is the most I have heard from her lately. And she did still vote for Clarence.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 11-30-01, 02:12 AM (EST) 31. "RE: Nice post, Rose" >I think MamaKim is the one >that I seem to be >forgetting about lately. We >saw a fair amount of >her at first because she >was weak and we expected >her to go next (before >that switch). But ever >since the switch she has >seemed to blend back into >the background. I don't >know what exactly she is >planning or who she feels >close to or wants to >boot. She mentioned that >she didn't like it that >Lex told her who to >vote for. But that >is the most I have >heard from her lately. >And she did still vote >for Clarence. Mamakim? Why she's the new Tina! She's in a heavy alliance with Ethan, and also, Kelly, it seems. Frank and Teresa like her,too. The only negative I've seen on her recently was when Lex exchanged looks with Tom while they were still crucified on the water tanks, when Mamakim got down from the challenge and got drenched almost the minute after Kelly did. They had a LOT to catch up on, and catch up they did, and that look of Lex's spoke volumes about his feelings for Those Two. The Final Four is getting a little crowded. I also want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their support of my above post. I see the last two series so clearly now. I wish I could see this one as clearly, but then that's what makes it all so interesting, isn't it? You're right about Clarence being the star so far. I think he was genuinely one of MB's favorites, like Frank. Go figure. And you're right,guys, the correct answer to that question is - MB LIKES PEOPLE WHO CREATE CONFLICT. It gives him something to work with. Nice people are dull tv. He gave Clarence every SECOND of screen time he could, and arranged an endurance challenge that he couldn't possibly have lost. BUT HE DID. So now what does he do? Well, he turns to Lex, as the new villain. He's got to. He doesn't seem to have much choice. He's so busy hiding his probable winners, that he's almost got no footage left to work with. Brandon, who was definately the star of the Re-Crap(and it ended with them actually washing their clothes in elephant feces, y'all). Brandiwhine was presented as all WARM and FUZZY all of a sudden. I actually found myself wanting to have him do my hair.Or at least make me a drink. His campy campfire conflab with Tom, well, it made me realize where the word "Camp" might have come from in the first place... And the smile on Tom's face the next day when he lost the goat challenge!(another MB gift to a favorite, Tom. How could he lose the goat herding challenge? BUT HE DID!) Yes, Tom's inexplicable smile, and the cutaway to the stars falling all over Africa after Tom starting admitting his gay bar experiences to Brandy, makes me think that Ole Horndog Tom might have hit on Brandon, too! THIS WILD, RAMPAGING BEAST!?! Will he stop at nothing?!? Brandon seemed also happy about the arrangement. A new alliance is forming. WATCH OUT LEX! Is it my imagination of is Brandon sleeping his way to the top? JUST WHAT happened exactly when they cut away to the starlit African sky? And why show this scene at all? I mean, it's great comic relief and very positive and all, but does it have something to do with THE PLOT? Like a new alliance is forming? I guess Brandon has a thing for older men. I personally would have thought that San Fransciscan Lex was more up his alley, so it speak. And both of them with their nearly impenetrable Southern accents! I guess that's how this scene got by the CBS censors. They couldn't understand what was being said. I felt like "Oh! NOW I know what it must've been like around a campfire during the CIVIL WAR!?!" And Lex's skull/torch is pictured on the Episode After Next trailer with the immunity necklace on it. NOT A GOOD SIGN. LEX is not with his torch. Or does that mean that he WON immunity and hung his necklace on his torch to provide a stunning visual for MB to edit in and confuse us all again. If he has immunity, he can't be voted off in that episode. Ethan doesn't seem to be racking up the IC wins that everyone thought he would, but I think that's a VERY smart move on his part. He may be throwing the challenges so that he doesn't become an obvious target of resentment like Colby did. I think Ethan is using his BRAIN, and his considerable charm, and not relying on his muscles to take him through this, and that's a wonderful way to play the game, because NO ONE sees him as a threat and EVERYBODY likes him. A smart, attractive, straight, pleasant guy wins S3. Wouldn't that be a nice change? Clarence said in one of his chats that a tremendous amount of unseen conversation at Boron revolved around Colby and his winning all the immunity challenges(as Kelly did on S1) and how afraid everyone was of that happening again, and just about the only person who could do that is "professional athlete" Ethan! But he's not doing it! He's outsmarting them all! We may watch that stunning new immunity necklace bounce from person to person, and once they've won it, and then they don't get it again, they're brunch, I mean, toast. MB said he felt this series was "The best survivor yet. The most satisfying" which could just be the usual re-crap, but I think what we've seen heretofore is merely the exposition, the set-up, for A LOT of very dramatic things to start happening as we move into the Happy Holiday Season. AT LEAST I SINCERELY HOPE SO! And Lex, Kim P., Kelly and Mamakim's and especially Ethan's virtual ABSENCE from tonight recrap episode guarantees that these five people are gonna be around for QUITE a while yet.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-30-01, 01:16 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Nice post, Rose" Ethan would be smart to not win the IC if he doesn't feel he is the target of the vote. Nobody wants to stand out. But also his nice guy image could also be what hurts him. Remember Elisabeth? Nobody wanted to go up against her in a final vote. She was considered too likeable. So Ethan has to be careful not to end up as the likeable one who gets along with everyone (meaning he would get everyone's vote). MB mentioned that Brandon's lifestyle does affect the game. Were we being shown the Tom/Brandon conversation as a lead up to this? We know from Tom's private chats that he wants to get rid of Brandon. Which seems odd since Brandon is not an IC threat. He doesn't even seem that close to many people alliance-wise. So Tom has some personal issues with Brandon. And Lex looked like a fool again. He was complaining about Clarence painting his body for attention. Has Lex looked in a mirror lately? I'd say Lex has spent alot more time and money decorating his body than Clarence ever did. Clarence was probably bored and needed something to do. What was Lex's excuse?   Top

wendyp 2081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 11-30-01, 01:45 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Nice post, Rose" I agree with almost all you points. The one I disagree with is being discussed on another thread, the IC neckalace is not on LEX's torch. If you look you can see the letters IM as if it is one of the Kim's torches. This could be where MB wants us to think Lex win IC but it is really one of the Kims. My bet is Kim P. The only things is what does this prove? We could still see Frank booted or any of the other Samburus. I am jsut worried that they are showing Lex too much that they want us to think it is Lex. I wonder if he gets more votes this week, but does not get booted? I think it would be smart for Samburus to pick another Boran to put votes against. This will put any of the Samburus in a good position if all or most of the Boran have points against them. KimP and Brandon already know how Kelly lied to Lindsey. They may put votes against her as they know she can not be trusted. This would also go with the face time she was getting. There are 5 boran, 2 have votes after this TC I am betting 3 have votes.   Top

simone 52 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 11-30-01, 01:51 AM (EST) 30. "RE: Nice post, Rose" Sweet might not make good drama, but sex does. If MB is interested in building a story for each character - and that does make a lot of sense in that it ties the reality show to mainstream sensibilities about what a tv series should be like (drama, comedy - what is Survivor really but a soap opera in exotic locations where the actors don't get to bathe?) - I wonder if he would have introduced the Tom-Theresa attraction in the proper episode rather than leaving it for the insider or the recap (as he did with Tom's outrageous comments about Brandon and Lindsey). It feels as if we are being set up for something. Of course, that something could happen in the next episode and she could still get voted off. However, could the "Dinner, Movie, Betrayal" title of Ep 9 (? - on another post?) refer to the "budding romance" between those two? If so, who betrays whom? Could Theresa figure out some way to use Tom's prior votes against him in a 4-4 split (Assuming a Samburu gets voted off this episode, that could break down to 3 Old Samburu + Kelly or MamaKim versus Lex-Ethan-Tom-Kelly/Mamakim). I think that if any of the Old Samburu get voted off next ep. (which seems to me to be the most likely thing, although I would love to see Lex's head go on the block) the remaining three are going to stick together like glue, even in a situation where it's Brandon, Lil Kim, and Frank (who at that point might be thinking that if nice, sweet Theresa could get it in the neck, what are they going to do with creepy loner Frank?). Oh well, who knows...   Top

Sexy Spearchucker 22 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-05-01, 01:37 AM (EST) 35. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." I see ONLY a Samburu going this week. There is no way Kelly will be swayed to join them. It would hurt her chances of surviving right now. There is no logic in it. I believe you are looking WAY to much into the reading of the votes. It's more than likely just a way to save a little airtime. Frank is a goner! Sexy Spearchucker   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-05-01, 02:11 AM (EST) 36. "L/E/F/T" Yes, but what if Frank wins Immunity? We've all been told by experts that the Lex/skull/torch is a time-lapse set-up, and yes, EPMB does set this up to s***w with our heads, you better believe it. I'm beginning to be convinced that he haunts this boards to relax, or has hired someone(he's a gazillionaire at this point) to haunt the boards from him, especially this one, the smart, literate, civilized one. I think he gets a lot of ideas FROM US, the truly obsessed. We're obsessed with him, and he's obsessed with us. And he's ALSO obsessed with Frank, one of his favorites. Many have felt that the Twist was created only to save Frank, who, let's face it, would have been the next to go at Sambooboo, if they Switch hadn't happened. I'm beginning to think Frank might NOT go now, because Clarence just gave this rather revealing little interview on the J& Jer or something, show on Radio where he said he wanted "Someone like Frank to win. He's a loner, like me. He has an alliance with his T-Bird, but that's it. He's not kissing up to anybody. He's out there on his own. I like that." And here I thought he HATED Frank. Guess not. He also gave major props to KKG(Kappa Kappa Gamma - Kelly)implying that she would go far. But then she was his only friend. BUT FRANK?!? Could Frank be around for much longer than we all expected?!? Not if KKG can help it! Frank's continued presence in the game would knock her out of the Final Four, and Mamakim, too, if L/E/T becomes L/E/F/T!   Top

Rube 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-05-01, 11:31 AM (EST) 37. "Anyone else bothered by the name "Sexy Spearchucker"" LAST EDITED ON 12-05-01 AT 11:33 AM (EST) Anyone else bothered by the name "Sexy Spearchucker" or is it just me?   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-05-01, 11:35 AM (EST) 38. "RE: Anyone else bothered by the name "Sexy Spearchucker"" I think it's just you--I have 3 words for you: Get Over It.   Top

Rube 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-05-01, 11:43 AM (EST) 39. "RE: Anyone else bothered by the name "Sexy Spearchucker"" Sorry Sexy, no offense meant. I remember being surprised when M*A*S*H brought on the character "Spearchucker Jones" I'm probably overly PC   Top

Sexy Spearchucker 22 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-06-01, 10:35 AM (EST) 44. "Re: Name "Sexy Spearchucker"" I never imagined anyone would be offended by it. I just envisioned a sexy girl throwing a spear or a javelin.   Top

MakeItStop 1098 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 12-06-01, 01:09 PM (EST) 45. "Hey Sexy" Your name is fine! I think it's funny.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-05-01, 11:54 AM (EST) 40. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." I agree that it will be a Samburu this week, Teresa missed her chance to exploit the one big rift among the Boran (the fear of Clarence pulling a Kelly/Colby IC winning streak), had she allowed him to win immunity in return for his agreeing to vote with her then possibly they could have gotten Tom out of the game. Unfortunately, now the four Samburu have to convince one Boran to vote with them (why would a Boran agree to be a fifth wheel when at worst he or she already is that in Boran?) or somehow get the Boran to split their votes (I cannot think of how this might even be attempted, though). Lex's witch hunt is the big draw for this coming episode, but it could be a dud really. If he successfully discovers that Teresa voted for him he has no excuse for considering that a betrayal, they were never even in the same tribe until the merge. On the other hand, if it leads him to the wrong target (one of the other Samburu or one of his fellow Boran, which is unlikely) that would increase his "bad guy" factors and justify the editing he has received in the past few episodes. So, the question would be, can Lex's paranoia be used to divide Boran. So far all the focus I've seen indicates that the Samburu are going to try to pull a Boran over to their side, but what if the plan is simply to divide the Boran votes somehow in order that their 4-vote blok is sufficient to nail a Boran (2 Boran votes going one way, 3 another)? I've tried to think of a scenario where this could happen, but so far it doesn't seem to work. Anyone have any ideas? you must gufu ho ho ho! "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-05-01, 11:37 PM (EST) 41. "RE: MB's hiding of Frank." So far >all the focus I've seen >indicates that the Samburu are >going to try to pull >a Boran over to their >side, but what if the >plan is simply to divide >the Boran votes somehow in >order that their 4-vote blok >is sufficient to nail a >Boran (2 Boran votes going >one way, 3 another)? >I've tried to think of >a scenario where this could >happen, but so far it >doesn't seem to work. Naw, the players are too game/vote savvy this season, and probably, from now on to split their votes anymore like in S1. >Anyone have any ideas? >you must gufu ho ho >ho! >"If all machines were >to be annihilated at one >moment, so that not a >knife nor lever nor rag >of clothing nor anything whatsoever >were left to man but >his bare body alone that >he was born with, and >if all knowledge of mechanical >laws were taken from him >so that he could make >no more machines, and all >machine-made food destroyed so that >the race of man should >be left as it were >naked upon a desert island, >we should become extinct in >six weeks. A few miserable >individuals might linger, but even >these in a year or >two would become worse than >monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-06-01, 00:33 AM (EST) 42. "Possible betrayals from Boran" Hi everyone; wow it took me forever to read through this whole link. I keep thinking about what Kelly said in her reasoning for choosing Clarence last episode, "I like this person, so why am I voting for them?" shrug (reworded). Here's your answer, Kelly: BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF DRAWING UNDUE ATTENTION TO YOURSELF. Teresa hasn't been in the tribe with Lex for very long; she doesn't know him the way old Boran and Brandon and Kim Pee do. All of them know that Lex is the "leader." He will remain that way until someone gets the nerve up to stand against him. If that brave person is likeable, like say Ethan, it's a certainty that everyone else will be jumping on the Dump-Lex Express. If that person is a loner, like say Frank, I think it will backfire and Lex will lead a powerhouse to get rid of him. An early post frames Kelly as the tie-breaker that possibly will vote for Lex. I say there is more of a chance that snow will cover their camp than that happening in the next episode. She's staying under the radar for now, like the other "good little Boran children." I CAN see Teresa trying to collect an alliance against Lex and losing. I can see Frank trying the same, because he seems introspective and quite aware of how the game is played. I liked Jerri's raucous presence. I am becoming quickly tired of Lex. You heard it here first: the remake of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory features Lex van de Berge as a tattooed Veruca Salt "Who voted for me? Who voted for me? I want to know NOW!" As far as the hiding of Frank that I think was the original topic for this post, I agree with others: LAWSUIT AHOY! I understand not wanting to hurt Silas's feelings with a reading of a virtual landslide of votes, but since when is MB so worried about people's feelings? And slipping in a Frank vote reading as the 2nd or third vote would set up that glimmer of suspense Jiffy likes to perpetuate. I keep thinking about Tina's declaration that there was a REASON why she wasn't seen a lot in the first 1/2 of S2. . . please don't tell me Kim Pee is going to win this thing. She's so Amberesce that I find myself wondering if she's really a person on the show or just a cardboard cut-out the cameramen play Immunity Ring-Toss with during down time.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-06-01, 00:53 AM (EST) 43. "RE: Possible betrayals from Boran" A lawsuit about not revealing one vote in a game show, when that vote did not determine the outcome in that episode, would never get to court. It's too slim. CBS insisted on having one of their lawyers advise MB, because of the Stacey lawsuit, so it would be CBS's butt on the line, not MB's, if anything stemmed from their lawyer not advising MB properly. (Man, was that smart of MB to trick CBS into that, or what!) "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

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