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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-10-01, 01:53 AM (EST) "Burning Carriage Challenge" LAST EDITED ON 09-10-01 AT 03:08 AM (EST) The original link to this story has been changed to another story, with this piece archived (and possibly subject to change): http://www.nationaudio.com/News/EastAfrican/03092001/Regional/Regional5.html I will number the paragraphs in the text for reference: Shooting of 'Survivors' Ends Amid Controversy By JOHN KARIUKI SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT -1- THE FILMING of the CBS "reality television" programme, Survivor: The Savannah, at the Shaba game reserve, 350 kilometres northeast of Nairobi, is expected to end this week, leaving a trail of controversy about disputed location fees and claims of wantom environmental destruction. -2- Sources at Kenya's film licensing department told that Tanzania's Serengeti National Park was originally earmarked for the filming, but better marketing by Kenya won the day. "We hyped our infrastructure and skilled film crews to win the production," said the government official. {aside: Spoilers, take note of this for trying to determine sites of future games.} -3- In this year's premier movie locations exhibition, Expo LA 2001, held in February, Kenya was picked as the best movie location from among 3,000 entries. The triumph at the expo was credited to former Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Information, Transport and communication Mr Titus Naikuni's organisational skills. -4- Two weeks ago, a little known non governmental organisation called the Waso Trust threatened to sue to stop Survivors' production, alleging massive destruction of the environment. A group of Isiolo residents has also held demonstrations, accusing the producers of "underpaying" for use of the location. -5- Last week, the production office of Survivors wrote to the Kenya Ministry of Environment requesting an inspection of the filming location two weeks after completion of the shooting to assess environmental damage. "This is to allow time for the restoration process being undertaken by the producers to take effect," said Mr Hezekiah Kimondo, the government liaison officer attached to the production which has employed 400 local people -- the most ever in Kenya's film production history. -6- Reports on the Survivor website claim that 50,000 people were interviewed for the 18-member cast that struggled to "survive" in Shaba. The 18 were divided into two teams competing in endurance tests in rough terrain. "They are let loose in the park, which is inhabited by snakes and wild naimals, and have to feed on berries and other wild fruits. Only one will survive." The winner will take home a cool $1 million. -7- One hundred and eighteen security personnal from paramilitary units, the Kenya Police, the Kenya Wildlife Service and private security firms were hired to ensure the safety of the crew and competitors. -8- For the previous two Survivor series, shot in the Malaysian jungle of Pula Tuga island {sic} in South China Sea and in the Australian outback, CBS deposited an assurance bond which was refunded after the governments cleared it of any damage to the environment. -9- "We do not have such a provision here and had to go by their assurance" said an official with the Ministry of Tourism. -10- As for the location fees, protesters in Isiolo claimed that the Ksh 18million ($250,000) paid to the Isiolo county council as a filming location fee was way too low for the space and duration of shooting. -11- But production co-ordinators said that there were no uniform rates in such matters and that the fees were subject to negotiation. -12- The former chairman of the Isiolo County Council, Mr Hussein Abduba (he was voted out recently), says that the fee is fair considering that the council makes no more than Ksh 15million ($187,500) from Park collections a month. -13- Three quarters of the park was closed to non production personnel during the shooting and the park's airspace was declared "a no-fly zone" in order to prevent unauthorised filming of the show from the air. The Kenya Airforce was said to be enforcing the flying ban. -14- A source claimed to have witnessed one of the team sports in which the "survivors" competed to pull a burning carriage to the top of a hill. -15- It is believed that the camera crews are instructed to film the entire sequence. Accidents (such as somebody getting burnt in the process) are considered part of the action. A a stand-by emergency team is said to be on the alert for any eventualities. -16- In the team sports, there is an element of elimination, and the members can vote to remove one of their own who is considered a liability. -17- After surviving the team endurance sports, the competitors try to outdo each other "until the very last man... It is typical of human beings to pull together when it is convenient and turn against each other later," says the series promotion literature. -18- Sources at the production claim that crew signed Ksh5 million ($62,500) bond not to diverge {sic} information about the show. -19- A production co-ordinator who requested anonymity said that the fee was fair and that CBS had donated an addition Ksh3 million ($37,500) for community projects in the area. The American company has also repaired all the roads in Shaba game reserve at a cost of $62,500. -20- The programme is said to have a cult viewership of 40 million in the US. -21- Kenya Tourist Board Managing director Mrs Betty Buyu said the show was a boost for Kenya tourism. Much of the promotional benefits woudl trickle down to Shaba, she said. But tour industry sources say that the park, which has only one lodge, may not have the capacity to cope with the expected influx of visitors. -22- The chairman of the Kenya Association of Tour Operators, Mr Tom Kernardes, expressed the industry's concern's, about whether Kenya could exploit the publicity from the show. He echoed fears that the popularity of the show would lead to a strain on Shaba, as was the case with Maasai Mara due to excessive marketing. EastAfrican While much of this piece has been correctly identified as politically motivated, I have been wondering about the "burning carriage" bit in paragraph 14. I originally dismissed it as preposterous, but it has nagged at me. Could this possibly be a misrepresentation of something that did occur, namely part of the first reward/immunity challenge involving fire? Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, thank you. "If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Burning Carriage Challenge PepeLePew13 09-10-01 1    RE: Burning Carriage Challenge SurvivorBlows 09-10-01 2        Good Logic... Krautboy 09-10-01 3            I've Spent Hours... IceCat 09-10-01 5                RE: I've Spent Hours... Krautboy 09-11-01 6                RE: I've Spent Hours... dabo 09-11-01 7                    RE: I've Spent Hours... mavsfan 09-11-01 8                        RE: I've Spent Hours... PepeLePew13 09-12-01 12                Historical Connection Krautboy 10-02-01 13                    RE: Historical Connection dabo 10-02-01 14                        More Evidence Krautboy 10-02-01 15        RE: Burning Carriage Challenge mavsfan 09-10-01 4            RE: Burning Carriage Challenge Mitrelleum 09-11-01 9                RE: Burning Carriage Challenge PepeLePew13 09-11-01 10                S3: Episode 1, Immunity Challenge Krautboy 09-11-01 11

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PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-10-01, 07:26 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Burning Carriage Challenge" It's certainly plausible to have the first tribal immunity challenge (or even a reward challenge) involving fire. A competition to drag a burning carriage up the hill that might include trying to beat the clock to avoid the fire burning through the rope pulling it up could be a workable idea. I remember Bitchell lighting the top of tower in the first episode in S2 to win for the Ogawhores and the tribe was able to build a fire back at camp. "Permit me to introduce myself. I am Pepe Le Pew, your lover."   Top

SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-10-01, 11:52 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Burning Carriage Challenge" Yes, I think the first challenge in S2 was the "run of fire" where they had to take some torches, run, light some raft on fire or something, wade across the river with it, and then carry it to a tower and light the tower. (I might be wrong on some of the details, but they defitely had to light a tower at the end.) ...if the water is deadly in S3, I can certainly see a hill replacing the wade across the river.   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 09-10-01, 05:03 PM (EST) 3. "Good Logic..." Pepe and SB: Your logic makes good sense. Do the Maasi or Samburu use some kind of wagon or carriage as a part of their nomadic culture? MB tries to incorporate the local culture and tradition into the challenges whenever he can. Maybe the carriages/wagons used are pulled by cattle in the original episode as a means of arriving at the tribe sites and later recycled for the "burning carriage" challenge. Enough speculation for now... Krautboy   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-10-01, 11:26 PM (EST) 5. "I've Spent Hours..." ... searching for a 'legend/story of the burning carriage/wagon'. No luck so far.   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 09-11-01, 01:15 AM (EST) 6. "RE: I've Spent Hours..." You should have said something! I thought everyone knew the old Masai Legend of the Burning Carriage... Krautboy   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-11-01, 01:25 AM (EST) 7. "RE: I've Spent Hours..." Sorry about the hours, IceCat, but thanks for the effort. My original feeling about the "burning carriage" language was that, like much of the article, it was politically slanted wording; in this case politically slanted wording intended to direct fault against those who allowed irresponsible Americans loose in a national treasure. Whose politically slanted wording it might have been, the source or the reporter or his editor or the publisher even, I couldn't say. For the most part, though, I think we can all agree that the article is a collection of political bits and pieces; and also that knowledge of Survivor and its history is not the author's strong suit. But, as I said in the top post, the subject of the "burning carriage" nagged at me, that possibly this was a reference to something that actually had occured. However, if a reference to something that had occured (the first episode challenge involving transporting fire), it could still be politically slanted wording, just politically slanted wording with a factual basis. I do not believe MB would intentionally have the contestants drag a burning carriage in a wilderness setting where wildfire would be a disaster, rather this could be a reference to a challenge where a torch is being transported (as in S1 and S2) but the wording is still politically slanted. On the other hand, accidents do happen, perhaps a carriage really did catch fire (I hope not, but doing that intentionally would be both preposterous and irresponsible). "If the race of man should be left naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few individuals might linger, but in a year would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 09-11-01, 02:22 AM (EST) 8. "RE: I've Spent Hours..." Someone in a prior thread suggested that putting the camps along the river or a lake would be a mistake. The idea being that all sorts of wild animals come down to the water to drink, and that the contestants would likely be advised to stay away from any lakes and rivers. I thought at the time that this might present a little bit of a problem for MB in that in both SI and SII, the tribes were given the chance to catch fish as a supplement for their diet. I thought at the time that if the players couldn't fish, MB might have more food challenges this time around. That aside, if MB/CBS have decided to keep the contestants away from the river/lakes, and MB wants to maintaine the "fire is life" theme that started off SI and SII, the idea of transporting a torch in a wagon sounds plausable. In both SI and SII they transported a torch on a raft, they didn't actually set the raft on fire. I think, as dabo suggests, the "burning carriage" language is not to be taken literally.   Top

PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-12-01, 03:27 PM (EST) 12. "RE: I've Spent Hours..." >I thought at the time that if the players couldn't fish, >MB might have more food challenges this time around. Yes, that makes total sense. >the idea of transporting a torch in a wagon sounds >plausible. In both SI and SII they transported a torch >on a raft, they didn't actually set the raft on >fire. I think, as dabo suggests, the "burning carriage" >language is not to be taken literally. Again this makes sense. I did a google search and there is nothing that relates to African culture, but I did see quite a few mentions of travel by carriage so probably this is just a metaphor for a challenge where tribes might have to "build" something to carry someone holding a torch (4 carriers, 1 rider = "carriage"). Also found something interesting... a spoiler suggesting that one of our very own SB'ers was in Africa? ... Therefore the native has not abandoned his old gods; nor has he adopted a new. He still believes firmly that his way is the best way of doing things, but he acknowledges the Superman. To the Superman, with all races, anything is possible. Only our Superman is an idea, and ideal. The native has his Superman before him in the actual flesh. We will suppose that our own Superman has appeared among us, accomplishing things that apparantly contravene all our established tenets of skill, of intellect, of possibility. It will be readily acknowledged that such an individual would at first create some astonishment. He wanders into a crowded hotel lobby, let us say, evidently with the desire of going to the bar. Instead of pushing laboriously through the crowd, he floats just above their heads, gets his drink, and floats out again! That is levitation, and is probably just as simple to him as striking a match is to you and me. After we get thoroughly accustomed to him and his life, we are no longer vastly astonished, though always interested, at the various manifestations of his extraordinary powers. http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/geo/travel/TheLandofFootprints/chap17.html So THAT'S how he gets around in the Blowhole! Nahhhh couldn't be him, could it? "Permit me to introduce myself. I am Pepe Le Pew, your lover."   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 10-02-01, 01:18 PM (EST) 13. "Historical Connection" Here's the explanation we were looking for: ----------------------------------------------------------------- OXWAGON SAFARIS Thanks to BlindFreddy When the European settlers first arrived on the mainland of East Africa some 90 years ago they either traveled by the newly constructed railway, walked or went by Ox wagon. This was an infinitely slow method of getting around, but they did see the country in more detail. Now you can discover what it was like for those fearless settlers to travel over country that has not changed in a thousand years. See the birds and animals at a slow pace instead of rushing along a road and if you want to stretch your legs just step off the wagon and walk along side. Inside the wagon there are comfortable seats, cool refreshments and shade. At night stay in a luxury tented camp with hot showers and cordon bleu cuisine around a cosy campfire. We offer a 3 day oxwagon safari in the country around Lake Naivasha. The maximum number of participants is 12. So the incorporation of ox wagons into the Survivor storyline, would be in keeping with the greater inclusion of culture in filming, as Jeff Probst's recent interview comments have suggested. In fact, the possible use of the ox wagons (burning or otherwise) in the "Quest for Fire" challenge, might be the culmination of the Survivor's journey (entry) into Africa. ----------------------------------------------------------------- This may be the way the Tribes haul their gear to their camps after being dropped of (probably by a Landrover) and later use the same carts/wagons for the first challenge... Krautboy   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 10-02-01, 03:18 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Historical Connection" Thanks, Krautboy, that was very interesting. I had wondered about how the castaways would be transported to the game site, the only thing I could think of was safari related. These ox carts would make more sense, sort of like returning to the rafts used in S1.   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 10-02-01, 05:15 PM (EST) 15. "More Evidence" LAST EDITED ON 10-02-01 AT 05:18 PM (EST) Here's some photograhic evidence from SurvivorFever where some parallel thinking was going on... Notice that the carts are different! (The cart Carl is sitting on has vertical slats, the Challenge cart doesn't).One cart probably used to haul in supplies and gear(Carl resting after unloading the gear), the other used for the challenge. Both in keeping with the underlying historical theme that will undoubtably be woven in throughout the show... Krautboy   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 09-10-01, 11:24 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Burning Carriage Challenge" The first challenge in SI and SII were both "transporting fire" challenges. In SI they had to transport fire from a floating platform in the ocean, and in SII they had to transport fire across a river. It allowed the winning team to secure fire, while the losing team had to wait until TC to get fire. (although In SI BB was able to start a fire with his glasses). There were other "fire challenges" along the way, such as when Richard did his "happy dance", and when Colby "dug down deep". But both of those fire challenges involved BUILDING fire while the 1st fire challenge in both SI and SII involved TRANSPORTING fire to a specific location. Assuming the report is not a red hearing, and I doubt it is, then I suspect we have atleast one leg of the 1st immunity challenge of SIII. Considering MB's fondness for repeating old challenges, it would probably be a worth while effort to make a list of all the reward and immunity challenges to date. It will probably help in figuring out video clips. I'm going to see how many I can remember, and if it looks like it might be some help I'll post it.   Top

Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 09-11-01, 04:55 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Burning Carriage Challenge" I can help you with that. S1 I=immunity R=reward I1-Quest For Fire Tribes must light torches and transport raft to burning tower man.-Pagong wins R1-Water Bearer Two of the strongest members must hold poles while the opposing tribe members load the poles up with bags of water-not aired I2-Buggin out Each tribe must eat 2 live grubs-Tagi wins R2-In From The Deep Tribes must retrieve treasure chest from underwater and drag it to the shore. Reward:fishing supplies-Tagi wins I3-Rescue Mission Tribes make a stretcher to rescue fellow tribemembers from the wood.-Pagong wins R3-Distress Signal Tribes must complete a convincing distress signal to be seen from the sky-Tagi wins I4-Treasure Hunt Tribes must retrieve map, cross a shaky bridge, row to beach, find key in woods, dig up buried treasure-Tagi wins R4-Choose Your Weapon Tribes must compete with blowdart, slingshot and spear to win fresh fruit-Pagong wins I5-Ocean Rescue One member from each tribe (Kelly/Gervase) must row into sea to rescue fellow tribesmen and return to beach-Pagong wins R5-Night Vision Tribes must search in and out of dilapidated buildings and retrieve certain items to win canned goods and chocolate-Pagong wins I6-Military Obstacle Course Standard soft-sand obstacle race-Tagi wins I7-Hold your breath Players compete to see who can hold their breath underwater. The final three compete in an underwater race-Greg wins. R6-Bow & Arrow The tribemember to hit closest to the center of the target wins a video from home-Greg wins I8-Rope Maze Players navigate through a massive tangle of ropes, attached to them by carabiners-Gervase wins R7-Tangled Web Players climb through web-like structure to receive medallions. Winner receives a barbecue-Colleen wins I9-Squared Off Strategic Chess-like game where players edge eachother off the board-Rudy wins R8-Bamboozled Players navigate over a bamboo structure, eliminating other players as they move forward. Winner receives pizza and a phone call home-Gervase wins I10-Fire building. Players prepare a fire and must run out to the tide to retrieve fire from torches-Rich wins resulting in the ever-popular Rich dance. R9-Trivia Players engage in an elimination trivia game to spend a night on a yacht-Sean wins Also a weight loss game in which Colleen wins a bar of chocolate for gussing correctly how much weight she lost I11-Balance. Players stand on balance beams in the middle of the water, as Jeff Probst hacks away at a board one at a time-Kelly wins R10-Mud bath Players must retrieve mud and drop it into a bucket using their bodies as transport. Winner receives beer and night out with Jeff to view the first 5 minutes of the show-Kelly wins I12-Blair Witch Challenge Players must run through forest to find masks which will ask them a question, they must record their answer and have all 5 answered correctly-Kelly wins I13-Fallen Comrades Players are asked questions about their expelled ex-tribemates-Kelly wins I13-Hands on the Idol Players must hold onto a nicely decorated pole for as long as possible without removing their hand-Kelly wins S2 I1-Quest for Fire Similar to S1 game-Ogakor wins R1-Cliff Jump Players jump off cliff to retrieve floating box of supplies and return to beach. Similar to "In From The Deep"-Ogakor wins I2-Wheel of Yumminess Tribes must eat an aboriginal delicacy featuring tripe, worms. grasshoppers, shellfish and other nasty stuff-Kucha wins R2-Water Bearer See S1/R1-Ogakor wins fishing supplies I3-Tethered Players must compete in a relay race/obstacle course while tethered together-Kucha wins R3-Slide Puzzle Players must compete puzzle revealing location of reward-Three egg-laying chickens and a rooster-Kucha wins I4-Cliff Trivia Standard Trivia challenge where each tribe must fill a spot as question is answered-Kucha wins R4-Triage Tribes must build a travois (stretcher) and rescue tribesmen from designated areas-Kucha wins I5-Great Maze Tribes navigate through giant maze and retrieve 5 medallions to Immunity table-Ogakor wins R5-Blind Leading the Blind One player must direct his blindfolded comrades through a series of tasks-Kucha wins I6-cancelled due to Michael Skupin's accident I7-Perch Players stand atop poles in the river, last man standing wins immunity-Keith wins R6-Boomerang Toss Player who hits closest to the target wins seafood dinner-Jerri wins I8-Name-dropping Players rope off squares and claim them-Keith wins R7-Obstacle Course Players compete in pairs through two heats. Winning tribe goes to Barrier Reef-Colby and Jerri win I9-Keep Your Balance Players compete against eachother on various unstable platforms, hoping to knock their component off-Nick wins R8-Auction Players are given money in which they can auction for food-winner:Colby and Amber for not having to poop every 5 seconds after the game I10-Fire/Water Towers. Players construct a fire, fill a bucket with water and set off flare-Colby wins R9-Rope Maze See S1/I8-Colby wins trip to Australian Cowboy camp I11-Slingshot Players must knock out other tribe-members plates-Colby wins R10-Outback Internet Cafe Trivia quiz involving contestants loved ones-Tina wins conversation with her family on the web I12-Shackled Similar to Blair Witch immunity where contestants must answer questions in order to remove shackles from their body-Colby wins R11-Make-Up Players run through several mini-versions from past challenges-winner gets Pontiac Aztec-Colby wins I13-Shell Game Typical match game in which winner must retrieve the most items from the board-Colby wins I14-Fallen Comrades See S1/I13-Colby wins There. I hope that helps. For the challenges I didn't know the names to, I just made them up. Feel free to use as reference.   Top

PepeLePew13 26135 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 09-11-01, 06:18 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Burning Carriage Challenge" Thanks, Mitrelleum... this is of great help and will keep this as an reference idea for S3. "Permit me to introduce myself. I am Pepe Le Pew, your lover."   Top

Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 09-11-01, 04:23 PM (EST) 11. "S3: Episode 1, Immunity Challenge" LAST EDITED ON 09-11-01 AT 05:12 PM (EST) Mittrelium, good work. I posted a copy of your list on the "Immunity Challenge List" resource thread. If MB follows the same pattern , it makes sense for fire to be involved in the first challenge. If it is, it would be reasonable to expect a tribe vs. tribe race transporting fire from point A to point B. Bcause of all the health and safety concerns about the river, it is reasonable to assume that a carriage/wagon to be involved instead of a raft. So, most likely, the "burning carriage" is really a person holding a torch being pulled/carried by the rest of the tribe. Krautboy   Top

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