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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?"
SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-15-02, 01:53 PM (EST)
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"Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
The more I see of this guy, the harder I find it to believe that 1) anyone would hire this guy as a schoolteacher, 2) that the standards are apparently so low, that he actually qualifies to teach.I mean it's bad enough dealing with his "angry young black man" personality and beliefs (and you wonder if any school system would let an equivalent openly racist young white guy be a teacher) but I think what bothers me MOST is the horrible GRAMMAR AND LANGUAGE! ...every time I see this guy start a sentence with "me and..." I just have to shake my head. When I watched his audition video and I saw his kids talking like that my thought was, well, they're just kids, they haven't learned any better yet -- but now I realize -- this is the example that this guy is setting. -SB
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Cin 843 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 02:39 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
I had never thought of it that way SB. Wow you are right. What kind of example he must be setting for his students. I know I'd never want my child around the type of person he is being shown as. Let's hope he's actually a normal guy off the show...... I doubt it but I sure hope he is.... Cin
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Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 02:45 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Below is Sean's bio from the CBS site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sean Rector was born and raised in Harlem, New York. He attended boarding school at Milton S. Hershey School in Hershey, Pennsylvania, before moving to Albany to obtain his Bachelor of Arts degree in theater and psychology from the State University of New York. Rector currently works as a junior high teacher in South Central Los Angeles. He is also the school's head basketball coach and works with the school's drama club. Previously, he has worked as a specialist for a homeless shelter, a clerk on the stock exchange and a school counselor. His favorite hobbies are basketball and reading.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So Sean has a BA degree in "theater and psychology"....I wonder what that makes him qualified to TEACH in a Los Angeles junior high school? Conveniently, his bio omits what subject he teaches while playing up the fact that he is ALSO the head basketball coach and blah, blah school drama club. One would think a Drama Major would know grammar and appreciate language but apparently that is no longer a basic requirement. And I'm not going to even go into how Sean's personality and attitude may or may not influence junior high age children. Dalton
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-15-02, 02:52 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Sadly, I don't find it hard to believe at all. Our social studies teacher, high school courses, BTW, butchers the English language each and every day. Some fine examples include:"Well, what did them boys do?"
"We was so close to winning." He is also the basketball coach. 
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wildchickenhunter 3192 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 03:09 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Doesn't surprise me at all. Have you seen the test scores of high school students lately.
We spend more money every year and it just gets worse.
Public school is child abuse!
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 03:52 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
In answer to the question of why he's allowed to teach junior high--in California you are supposed to have a B.A. in the subject you teach to teach secondary school (including jr. high).In addition you need teaching certification, which usually involves a 1 yr program, plus passing the NTE (National Teacher's Exam), the California test, and a third exam the name of which I can't recall. (At one time I considered such a job and looked into the requirements.) However, there simply aren't enough qualified teachers willing to teach in the inner city schools, such as Oakland and South Central, so for some years the practice has been in place to hire someone who simply has a B.A., and let them teach while working on the certification. As for the ungrammatical language, I totally agree that it's appalling. Of course I live in the school district (Oakland) infamous for debating whether Ebonics should be recognized as a foreign language. Actually, they wanted the recognition so they could get ESL funding to teach the kids standard English, as I recall, so they may have have had a valid point. It's about as hard to change these grammar patterns once they're set as it is to change them in someone who's a native speaker of a foreign language. Sean, a real loser who had a great resume on paper ...
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-15-02, 05:25 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
I am going to risk it and respectfully have a different opinion. I am sure everyone will have fun bashing me!I can see him talking like this in school. He teaches in South Central LA. He doesn't teach in Beverly Hills. Part of being a teacher is building relationships with the students. Part of building relationships is being on their level to some extent. If Sean went into South Central LA and spoke with grammatically correct sentences he would be laughed out of the school. The kids would have absolutely no respect from him. They would not relate. It is like taking someone from Beverly Hills and moving them to Compton and expecting the kids to like them and want to learn. That won't work. Would you send a teacher to Mexico without teaching them Spanish? No, you wouldn't. So why would you send someone into the inner city speaking perfect English and expect the kids to understand? Don't get me wrong I don't support Eubonics, but if Sean is a basketball coach he is going to have to talk in a way that the kids will understand and relate to him. From there they can "evolve." Furthermore, I think Sean is being himself. I am sure that when he is in a "white" business setting he will speak just fine. IMHO he has gotten a little to comfortable in his environment. I am sure there are lots of black people that you know that speaks perfect English in your face and when they get home slip into "slang." The thing is you don’t go home with them so you will never know.
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SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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03-15-02, 05:50 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
First of all, is Sean a real teacher or the PE and health teacher? Secondly, does he have that slacker attitude when he is coaching? My coaches would have slapped me in the back of the head for the "air-paddling" he was doing in the last episode. Third, IMHO, many people can not just turn off and on thier verbage. Teachers in the Midwest use thier own slang, teachers in the south often say "Y'all", and teachers in urban areas have thier own dialect. I could bash sean wholeheartedly for his negative attitude, though. "Destined for Greatness!"
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-15-02, 05:57 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
>First of all, is Sean a
>real teacher or the PE
>and health teacher? I think he teaches drama and coaches basketball. You can argue that is a real teacher, but it’s not an English teacher.
>
>Third, IMHO, many people can not
>just turn off and on
>thier verbage. Teachers in
>the Midwest use thier own
>slang, teachers in the south
>often say "Y'all", and teachers
>in urban areas have thier
>own dialect. People can and do. I know far too many people who do. They key is you have to see them in both settings. You don't act the same way at work as opposed to when you are at a bar. You know some things just don't fly. The same things go for language.
I could
>bash sean wholeheartedly for his
>negative attitude, though. His attitude does suck! I do give you that!
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-15-02, 06:07 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Oh okay . . .My mom was a teacher too. 
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-15-02, 08:01 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
I am not a nice person. And I must say ---
what a load of cra .... nonsense.So if he were teaching in a prison, I guess
he'd have to establish his credentials as a
petty thief or rapist to gain rapport ? I
don't think so. A more respectable and productive alternative
is to set a good example. And if he were really
an alpha male, the kids wouldn't dare laugh at
him. Many generations of children have learned
to be educated intelligent adults without
"relating" to their teachers. <splashes self
with ice water> Sorry ... I keep losing my head. 
60 Pixel Series, No. 2
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AresMars 283 desperate attention whore postings
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03-20-02, 10:18 AM (EST)
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46. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
No Flames here Smiles. Talking with his kids in thier lingo makes great sense but he's not interacting with his kids. I'd agree with you except if he could speak with some degree of intelligence don't you'd think he'd at least attempt that on National TV? I'm hoping he is just playing dumb and isn't actually as stupid as he appears.
God Bless America
There are two types of people, predators and prey, and the sound you hear is the sharpening of my claws.
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sbwvaio49 13 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 06:10 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Give Sean a Break...he may be setting a bad example for his kids with his lazyness (and lack of effort in the challenges)...but i don't see any of you volunteering to live in South Central. Many of you are from suburbia and really don't have a perspective on what these kids go through on a day to day basis. From the video it looked like Sean is a very effective teacher....who uses the necessary measures to teach his students based on there socio-economics level. Also i dare someone to post one racist thing that sean has said regaurding white people. For Sean to be racist he would somehow have to hold beliefs that whites were inferior to him based on color alone. That's what racism is...why do white people get so offended when blacks put their true feelings on the table about how they feel. Blacks never oppressed whites...or held them in slavery...or really have held the inclination that they are superior (except in basketball). Hunter was the best survivalist but he obviously wasn't the most cunning player. The "knuckleheads" are so stupid they might actually make the merge...something Hunter couldn't do. Finally...to be Black in America...is something that you can't understand unless you actually are...You can joke about it or trivealize it but that simply proves that you don't know what time it is. Sean dosent deserve to win and definitely won't win the million....but i aplaud him for keeping it real...and speaking truth despite who it may offend...something you obviously can't do.
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love2smile 194 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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03-15-02, 06:33 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
excellent post.....We'll remember that the next time someone white wants to speak their mind, & hopefully no one will call them a racist.
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SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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03-15-02, 06:40 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Give Sean a Break...he may be setting a bad example for his kids with his lazynessI thought this was the basher board. Maybe you mistook it for the fanatic board. Many of you are from suburbia and really don't have a perspective on what these kids go through on a day to day basis. You have no idea what my suburban kids go through on a day to day basis. Blacks never oppressed whites...or held them in slavery...or really have held the inclination that they are superior (except in basketball). This is not true historically or even contemporarily in some cases. let's just keep it real. Finally...to be Black in America...is something that you can't understand unless you actually are...You can joke about it or trivealize it but that simply proves that you don't know what time it is. Sean doesn't deserve to win and definitely won't win the million....but I applaud him for keeping it real...and speaking truth despite who it may offend...something you obviously can't do. This forum is not to bash one another or make any commentary outside of bashing everthing surrounding the Suvivor television show. We can bash Sean without being racist, just like we can bash John without be discrimantory toward his sexual orientation. These people chose to become part of a television show and, as such, are fair game.
"Destined for Greatness!"
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Dakota 5819 desperate attention whore postings
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03-15-02, 07:45 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: What if one of Sean's students acted that way? " |
If one of the guys on Sean's basketball team decided to "blow the game" because he thought another player was bossy or arrogant, what would Sean do? Take him out of the game and ask him what the problem was?
Player: "Well, coach. I'm an alpha male and that guy you got playing guard? Well, he thinks he's better than me and I'm not gonna kiss anyone's ass!"
Sean: "You're out of the game. Go get some water you dimwit!" Sean is setting a very bad example. 
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PepeLePew13 26138 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-16-02, 01:20 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: What if one of Sean's students acted that way? " |
Excellent point, Dakota. Sean should be embarrassed of the way he's carried himself thus far on S4. Now, what's going to stop his players from saying "I think I'm an Alpha Male like you think you are, so I can goof off all I want since you did it so well on the show."My uncle is a teacher in Inglewood, central L.A., a white teacher in a predominately African-American neighbourhood and I remember him telling me that any successful teacher has to get down to the level of the students to be able to reach them fully. It could apply to virtually any subject -- if the students sense that you're acting far superior to them whether it's English or phys ed or history, you're going to lose them. I've discovered that being a teacher myself -- I've taught subjects where I've lost certain students and others where I was able to bring myself down to their level and be able to get my point across to them successfully. Sean is doing what he has to do to reach the students -- I don't doubt that he *may* be capable in getting through and doing a very good job in his classrooms -- however, this is Survivor on national TV and his lazy act and manner of talk is not scoring well on the public forum, so that gives us all the impression he's a poor role model. If I was his student and he was successful in getting through to me in the classroom, I'd still be appalled by what I'm seeing on TV. Paddle, you idiot! Carry those logs!  
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-19-02, 04:20 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: What if one of Sean's students acted that way? " |
That's Right Dakota! What point is he making? Did he really think nobody would notice he wasn't trying? Is he truly that lazy? Is it his lack of protein and he is weak? I am waiting for Sean to explain his plan. Maybe it's all part of a bigger plan that Sean has to win. He wants to act in a way that everyone will think badly of him so... Nope, it doesn't make sense. He wouldn't accept it if one of his students acted this way in a game. So why is he in the game of Survivor doing this?
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-15-02, 08:12 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
but i don't see any of you volunteering to live in South Central. Many of you are from suburbia and really don't have a perspective on what these kids go through on a day to day basisExcuse me. I didn't know that you could tell where I live or what color my skin is or what I volunteer to do or what perspective I know about through the internet. I guess I was just wrong .... or perhaps you are generalizing based on incomplete information. who uses the necessary measures to teach his students based on there socio-economics level that would be "their" Oh never mind. You aren't interested in my "true feelings". And I'm not offended when anyone puts their true feelings on the table, but if they don't want me to evaluate the feelings, they should keep them off of the table. Sean is a jerk. Plain and simple. Small minded, petty, mean-spirited, lazy, and not too bright. What does race have to do with it?
60 Pixel Series, No. 2
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-15-02, 09:44 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Well, sbwvaio49 couldn't be bothered to post anything in this topic other than to recycle the same stuff he already had posted in another thread, so I'll just repost my same reply here...================================================== OK, so here am I trying to sit down and enjoy the epic BU/Cincy NCAA game, only to take a break while I wait for BU to "regroup" and make it's run -- and what happens other than I have to come into this thread and give another newbie a clue... Listen up sbwvaio49, I'm not going repeat this again, next time I have to come in here and waste my time responding to this junk, I'm gonna have to ban you, as everyone has been trying to tell you THIS IS THE BASHERS BOARD, it's not a place to discuss race relations (or whatever the hell you want to call what you're trying to address.) >You guys don't seem to care
>about lazy whites just lazy
>blacks... Guess what, you also have no clue on this, we've certainly bashed any/all white players -- try Sarah for starters, or how about Brandon, or Lindsey, or Silas. Next time do some research before you open your mouth, you won't come across looking so stupid. >they might as well do
>all of you a favor
>and just refuse to cast
>anyone of color...so that you
>can feel good about yoursevles. Oh ya, nothing makes me feel as good like turning on the TV and seeing no minorities -- it makes my day. Really, get a clue, do you even believe this dribble that you're writing? And what the hell even makes you think I'm not a minority myself? Did that idea even ENTER your mind? Over the years I've personally been discriminated on because of my ethnic appearance, my surname, where I live, and the way I talk -- so don't go making any assumptions about anyone. > There were 4 worthless
>lazy whites in Samboro...who seemed
>much more worthless and inept
>then Sean. But you
>know lets just focus on
>the lazy Niger... Um, hello, have you EVEN LOOKED in the archives from Survivor 3??? Do you think the reason we might now be bashing Sean instead is because Survivor 4 IS NOW THE CURRENT SERIES, NOT SURVIVOR 3? ...nah, guess that would make too much freaking sense. >deserve to. They just
>deserve to be portrayed in
>negative lights so that you
>can create jokes to tell
>about them and make yourselves
>feel better. Ya, all the white folks come off looking perfect -- Debb, Brandon, Kelly, Jerri, Michael, Amber -- all came off looking so good, it made all the white folks chests beam with pride (especially Debb and that whole "marrying the step-son" thing.) >challenges)...but i don't see any
>of you volunteering to live
>in South Central. Many a) what even makes you think Sean lives there just because he teaches there? Anyone ever tell you what happens when you assume??? a) who is "volunteering" to live ANYWHERE for that matter -- people live where they can, not because they are "volunteering" >of you are from suburbia
>and really don't have a
>perspective on what these kids
>go through on a day
>to day basis. Ya, as you pointed out, we're all too busy deciding whether to take the Porsche, the Benz, or the Range Rover to the golf course. Then it's off to the gym for our workouts (but not before stopping by the hardware store to pick up another wheelbarrow to help us transport all our money around.) Pot. Kettle. Black. >the video it looked like
>Sean is a very effective
>teacher....who uses the necessary measures
>to teach his students based
>on there socio-economics level. Please, this is such a cop-out. A good teacher manages to connect with his students without undermining the very reason they are in school to begin with -- which is at minimum to learn proper language skills, writing skills, etc. Wow, he connected with them and taught them whatever the hell it is that he teaches -- but at the expense of all the work the English and/or language teacher has been doing. Great teacher. So now, having seen this loser as a role model, his kids graduate unable to speak properly and therefore can't even get a decent high school grad job because the can't even speak in a acceptable professional manner. And because of that they get stuck in some absolute go-nowhere job they never have the opportunity to "unvolunteer" to get out of South Central. ...and then they get married, have kids and the whole circle starts all over again. So explain to me exactly what the hell Sean accomplished again??? ...other than comdemning these kids and their future generations to the same lifestyle as they living now. How is he improving their lives?? Teachers are role models -- their job is to show kids WHAT THEY CAN BE -- not to be what the kids ALREADY ARE. Good teachers manage to both connect with their students AND set a good example. Do you REALY THINK his kid's aren't going to connect with him if he said "my homies and I were..." instead of "me and my homies..." Use of SLANG is one thing, and that I can as possibly being reasonable. Use of horrible grammar (especially something as simple as the above, which they teach you in what, 2nd grade??? 3rd???) is pathetic. And if he's just talking like that to connect with his students, then why the heck is he still talking like that on the island --- not only ISN'T HE IN SCHOOL ANYMORE, but based on your explanation, he should be realizing he needs "to connect" with all those other white folks on the island and also adjusting his language appropriately. Face it, the students have nothing to do with the way he talks --apparently that's just the way to talks (although given his educational upbringing -- I'll get back to that later -- part of me wonders if this guy isn't putting on some kind of act.) Which is FINE, but if you're going to be a TEACHER (unless you're maybe the wood shop instructor  ) I find it unbelieveable that such a person is deemed qualified to educate the next generation of America. >Also i dare someone to
>post one racist thing that
>sean has said regaurding white
>people. For Sean to
>be racist he would somehow
>have to hold beliefs that
>whites were inferior to him
>based on color alone.That's what
>racism is... That's one definition -- go look it up: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=racism Another meaning is "prejudice based on race" And prejudice is "a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics" Now, are you going to seriously try and tell me that Sean's comments and assumption about the white players -- comments that he started marking just about the second he got on the beach -- are not "preconceived judgment or opinion" that were made without "sufficient knowledge" and that he hasn't had exhibited an "irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual or group?" Are you SERIOUSLY going to try and claim that??? If so, don't bother replying, because what little credibility you have left will have been completely eliminated. >why do white people
>get so offended when blacks
>put their true feelings on
>the table about how they
>feel. Finish the sentence: "...table about how they feel about white people" ...now replace black with white and vice verca and ask yourself if you aren't getting offended about some people posting their true feelings not even about black people in general, but OF ONE SPECIFIC black person.
>do. Finally...to be Black
>in America...is something that you
>can't understand unless you actually
>are... Yes, although apparently you seem to think this is a one way street -- since you seem to have no doubts that you completely understand every white person in America. >You can joke about it
>or trivealize it but that
>simply proves that you don't
>know what time it is. Pot. Kettle, Black. Except I dodn't think anyone on this board other than yourself claimed to understand anyone else -- they were simply looking to bash one of the players of Survivor, in this case a player who happened to be black. You don't see anyone bashing Vee, do you? You do see the little white girl Sarah being bashed everywhere, don't you??? So what the heck possibly has led you to the conclusion that Sean is being victimized by white people? Black, white, blue, green -- he's a fool, a player who has seemingly become a real life caricature of the sterotypical "angry young black man" and the classic example of a "loser legend in his own mind." > Sean dosent deserve to
>win and definitely won't win
>the million....but i aplaud him
>for keeping it real...and speaking
>truth despite who it may
>offend...something you obviously can't do. Keeping it real??? First off, this guy hasn't lived in Harlem for probably SIXTEEN YEARS. This poser attended boarding school at Milton S. Hershey School in Hershey, Pennsylvania before going to college at SUNY Albany! ...boarding school??? (gee, who's in suburbia now???) ...college in upstate New York??? (Albany - -oh ya, that's one dangerous 'hood) Even if he did grow up in Harlem -- he's FROM HARLEM, probably one of the world's oldest, most cultural and finest African-American communities -- a classic environment and the birthplace of some of the world's finest black leaders. It's not like he exactly grew up in the inner city public projects of Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, or even someplace in South Central LA! Now who's "keeping it real?" Give it up, this guy isn't worthy of your time (and your quickly not becoming worth ours.) -SB
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AresMars 283 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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03-20-02, 10:48 AM (EST)
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47. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
>>Give Sean a Break
An arm or a leg?>>Sean to be racist he would somehow have to hold beliefs that >>whites were inferior to him based on color alone.
Disagree, Sean made a distinction between himself, Vee, and the rest of the team. When he asked Vee if she knew the difference between them and the rest of the team what do you think he meant? He was making a distinction on skin color. He was playing the race card like every racist, regardless of skin color, does. A racist is defined as a person who believes in the doctrine of racialism. Racialism is defined as a doctrine or feeling of racial difference or antagonisms. So ask yourself honestly who is making racial differences here? Just because blacks never oppressed whites does not mean they can't be racists that is such a ludicrous argument I can't even believe it I read that.
God Bless America
There are two types of people, predators and prey, and the sound you hear is the sharpening of my claws.
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toddE 1433 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 00:43 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
To teach in LA, Sean had to pass the CBEST, which measures his English and Math abilities, or his credential would not have transferred. His grammar may be lacking, but I find many of the comments about Sean to be somewhat racist. Rob doesn't take all this crap. I honestly think whenever a minority person, be it racial, sexual orientation, whatever, stands up for him/her self, a lot of people feel unnecessarily uncomfortable.
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ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 01:34 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Sean is a jerk..." |
He won the Teacher of the year award in 2000.go figure 
"I know I don't know you, and you're probably not what you seem, but I sure would like to find out so why don't you climb down of that TV screen" Gina Crews, the Sole Survivor!
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 02:28 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Sean is a jerk..." |
>He won the Teacher of the
>year award in 2000.
>
>go figure Ya, if only we knew the criteria they used -- I just hope it wasn't something like because he coached the basketball team to the state title. ...then again, based on his application video and resume, we know Sean can make himself come off looking very impressive (while his candid actions clearly paint another picture) so it's probably not that big a surprise that he could fool some selection panel.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 02:25 PM (EST)
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24. "Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
OK, sbwvaio49, you were warned, now you're just continuing to troll. Cya.-SB
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franksantlers 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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03-16-02, 05:41 PM (EST)
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26. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
>>>OK, sbwvaio49, you were warned, now you're just continuing to troll. Cya.<<<Did I miss something? What did sbwvaio do? Can you explain why you banned him? I myself have been feeling nervous about the exessive bashing of Sean, while the other Maraamu are pretty much left alone. Have you guys heard of that psychology experiment where they had white people shock black people/white people? For example, when a black person was nice to them, the white people shocked them at a lesser rate than they shocked white people who were nice to them. So overall, white people shocked blacks at a lesser rate than they shocked white people when they were nice to them. But here is where it gets interesting: When a black person started getting rude and confrontational towards the white person, the white person shocked them at a higher intestity/rate than they shocked a white person who was being equally rude and confrontational to them. The results of the test were vary stark in contrast vs the two races. I'll try and dig up a link to this study that explains it much better than how I explained it. I feel like I'm seeing this underneath the posts on this board. My point is that I think most of the hateful comments about Sean are based in deep seated/subconscience hatred for blacks who don't conform to "White Man's America". For example, speaking standard grammatically correct English. I'm afraid I might get banned for this, but I thought I'd put out my thoughts on the matter, since it has been bothering me for a while.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 05:52 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-16-02 AT 06:05 PM (EST)I'm not going to discuss this anymore -- folks have been warned repeatly that this site (and this forum in particular) is not the place to go trolling for race relations discussions. EVERY POST sbwvaio49 made was about this topic, even after he was instructed to stop it. In addition, he seemed to have no problem expressing his own prejudices and preconceived opinions of everyone else on this forum, as well as making up complete untruths about this site and our discussion history in order to help support his argument. Please don't dig up any links to any other discussions or studies -- I don't know how many more times I have to say that the Survivor Bashers forum is not the place for any such controversial non-Survivor discussions -- even if the disucssion was in a orderly, respected manner (something that clearly was was not sbwvaio49's MO.) -SB
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franksantlers 32 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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03-17-02, 01:34 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
I understand SurvivorBlows.I will cease talking about race relations in the future because it is not related to Survivor. I thought that Sean's character was a great way to discuss non-Survivor related issues. I guess I'm pretty used to discussing any topic openly and honestly because I frequented an Atheist/Agnosticism site on about.com that had an open forum on any discussion topics. You are the moderator and you have your rules and I will comply with them. Do you have a list of the forum rules for this web site, so I don't unintentionally get myself banned? I think there has been some misunderstandings in this thread but to comply with what you wrote I'm not going to elaborate on them. But just for the record, I am not calling any of you racist because you are white and Sean is black...that's all I'm gonna say. I think I'll pretty much stick to lurk mode for now. Thanks for explaining your part. Sorry to sbvaio for not being able to comply.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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03-17-02, 01:13 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
The rules are pretty simple, respect your fellow posters and keep your discussion on topic for the given forum and you shouldn't have any problems. All you need to know about our board rules you should have learned in kindergarden. sbwvaio49 wasn't banned without warning -- he was warned that if he insisted on continuing with his postings he'd be banned, and despite the notice he continued to do so. -SB
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Squeeze My Lemon 70 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 06:01 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
Here's the problem - People like to play the race card whenever the race card is unwarrented. Sean is playing the race card, and so is sbwvaio49. The hatred for Sean is not based on so called deep seated/subconscience hatred for blacks who don't conform to "White Man's America". The hatred for Sean is based on his being a dumb lazy ass. sbwvaio49 got banned because all he did was CONSTANTLY call anyone who insulted Sean a racist. He may not have said it directly, but he implied it. I hate Sean, I am therefore a racist because I'm white and he's black. That is NOT valid and that is simply trolling being used to spark a fight. It's the people who insist on playing the race card every chance they get that are causing the problems in today's society. This is not 1952. Black people are no longer slaves. Get the hell over it already. I didn't exist at the time of oppression, so why am I being labled as something because of the color of my skin? Isn't that what we are all trying to NOT do? It was my great grandfather that oppressed black people, NOT ME!! Why is it that because I'm white I automatically hate black people due to "seated subconscience hatred"? The simple fact is this: Sean is not likable. He is an idiot and *HE* is a racist. He is lazy and he's annoying. Hell, I'll even call him ugly. It's not because he's black. If I recall, everybody liked Gervase because he was charming and funny. But nobody liked Richard. So according to people like sbwvaio49, it would have been because people were homophobic. There are reasons for hating people other than skin color or race or sexual orientation. I wish everybody would stop ASS-U-Ming that hatred is based on those things when really, it's based on the fact that most of these Survivors are attention whoring dumbasses.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 06:30 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
Wow, pretty good for someone called Squeeze My Lemon... Seriously, I'm glad someone pointed out Richard... during season one no one accused us of bashing Richard (or Brandon for that matter) because he was gay... and during S3 no one ever accused anyone who was bashing the Jewish players of being anti-semitic Nazis. No offense to anyone, but all people like Sean and sbwvaio49 do by playing the race card when it is unwarranted is make it that more difficult for folks who are using it when is WARRANTED (call it "crying wolf" syndrome.) Btw, I'd also like to point out that for whatever it's worth, S3's LINDA grew up in Boston's inner city public housing projects yet somehow she managed to learn proper language and grammar (not that I'm not saying she doesn't have some other obvious issues ) -SB
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Dakota 5819 desperate attention whore postings
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03-17-02, 09:41 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
Did you HAVE to bring up Linda! (Screams, shuts down computer and runs to the bathroom.)
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sittem 4186 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 08:37 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-19-02 AT 08:39 AM (EST)I've been trying to resist getting back into this discussion since it seems to be a no-win situation. And, this is the basher's board, so anything that is said bashing a contestant is OK I guess. So, SB, if anything I say here is inappropriate let me know and I'll try to stay away from defending Sean or arguing with other posters on his behalf. Lemon, (and I suppose others have said it also) is it really necessary to "hate" Sean (or anyone else for that matter)? It seems shallow to me to take a highly edited TV show and get worked up about how we as viewers feel about these people. Hate conveys such a strong emotion. How can any of us hate someone based on viewing a few minutes of them on a TV show? I can see dislike, not wanting to sit down with them and getting to know them or just being turned off, but hate? There have been people on the other shows I've disliked from what I saw, but almost every survivor who has been interviewed seems to have positive things to say about the other "unlikeable" survivors. Maybe we should compliment MB on his ability to elicit such strong emotion in the viewers. After all, it keeps bringing us back to the program because, for some reason, we care (or love to hate). I just cannot agree with "there are reasons for hating people". What could possibly be a reason for hating someone? You say that Sean plays the race card and that he is a racist. How in the context of the game (with the other people) has he played the race card or been a racist? And, what exactly did he say that was racist, even outside the context of the game in the confessional? I haven't seen him express any racist comments, nor have I seen him accusing the other survivors of being racist (now I'm a little older, so I forget things quickly, so if you remember a specific comment, let me have it). I'm still reserving my judgement on Sean. He is not looking very good as it relates to his tribal efforts, but it may also be that he's got a strategy. On the other hand he may just be very wise in how he's playing. In any case, he has been entertaining and for that reason I hope he stays around for awhile. I liked his expression in episode 2 about what most AA's know - that there is an extra burden operating in a majority culture. Is that a racist comment? I don't think so - I live most of my life residing and working as a minority in my neighborhood - I also have a challenge being white trying to fit into AA culture and I've been in this context for 22 years. The differnece for me is that I've chosen to live and work here and I could leave tomorrow if I chose. For most AA's they can't get away from white culture. I was gonna comment on the proper English and grammer stuff, but this is getting too long. SB, can you tell me where I can link to the audition tape for Sean? I'd like to see how big a jerk he actually is - or maybe there's overrreaction by people. I won't prejudge it until I've seen it. I am not surprised at how intense a discussion related to race has become, but I am disappointed at the lack of grace and understading on both sides of the issue. Frankly, what Sean has had to say is very mild. Edited to say goodbye to SBW - I did appreciate your viewpoint.
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-19-02, 10:09 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-19-02 AT 10:10 AM (EST)Wow! Great comments! I agree that we can't hate judge Sean strictly by what is protrayed on television. We just simply do not know what he is like in the classroom or outside of the show. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Edited because I can't spell very well!!!!
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 10:51 AM (EST)
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40. "Sean Started It!" |
I really don't hate Sean or think I really know him based on his television performance. He's there to play a game and he may have a strategy going which, frankly, would perhaps invalidate any judgments re. his true, normal life, everyday character.Sean got the ball rolling by playing the race card in his discussion with Vee while all the white people were out swimming. He expressed a racist attitude in that moment by assuming all the whites have racist attitudes about blacks. In the context of the game this suggests that he has brought an activist agenda to the game, that he will play all the attitudes about himself and directed towards him as being somehow racist in nature, and so on. He played the race card, plain and simple. The Vee then called him Malcolm Farrakhan, one of the smartest digs I've heard yet (though the thing about Sarah paying a lot for her attributes is still on top). That said: Yes, I do think Sean has had some smart things to say as well, the problem is that he tainted himself somewhat by the way in which he got the ball rolling. I thought the black and white nonos thing was both valid and humorously accomplished social commentary.
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Fast Eddie 625 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 10:55 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
LAST EDITED ON 03-19-02 AT 11:41 AM (EST)1) I think you're overblowing the use of the word "hate". I doubt if anyone is using it in its worst dictionary meaning, but rather as a much milder "dislike". Look how people use the word "love" around here. Certainly not in its strongest meaning. 2) I think you need to broaden your horizons more - and that goes 10x for Sean. There are all kinds of minorities, some very visible, like Orientals, others not so visible until you see their names. Most have faced injustice in history. Look at how Chinese were treated when they labored on railroads, and how Japanese were interred. And my ancestors were serfs - practically slaves - a millenium before the first African was brought to North or South America, up to the early 1900's. (In her memoirs, my mother recounts the story of how, as a young girl, she got to visit the "lady of the castle".) Many people have to deal with living in someone else's majority culture. My cousin Vladimir had his name changed to Fred by his teachers in the early 60's. My wife's cousin Wieslawa was instructed by her employer last year to call herself Vickie to makes things easier for her co-workers. And Chinese from Hong Kong routinely take Western first names, as children in school. How have all these people handled it? By lazing around and whining like Sean? I don't think so. And how have all the succesful AAs dealt with it? People like Oprah, three current major Oscar nominees, hundreds of professional athletes, thousands of fine musicians of all genres, financial analysts , broadcasters, etc. I don't know all their histories. Perhaps there is one who had success handed to him/her by chillin' and complaining about whitey. But I doubt it. One final thought: We must always keep apart the concepts of these people as they really are in normal life and the characters we see on TV. Although they are not actors with scripts, they might as well be. They are in a totally foreign situation, with cameras and mikes all around, and only a very tiny segment of what they say and do gets aired. I wonder how each of us would appear in similar circumstances.
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 02:00 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Say goodbye sbwvaio49" |
I don't think that Sean's laziness has to do with his comments about blacks (I refuse to use AA, too close to Alcoholics Anonymous) and whites in society. Those are two separate issues.You are right about many people live where they are the minority, but I think it is a little different when it is skin color. Like you mentioned some people were asked to change their name to please others. But it is a little harder to change your skin to please others (except for Michael Jackson). In any event, to get back on the subject on Sean's teaching ability. He is setting a poor example to his students with a lazy and whiny attitude. But his comments on whites and blacks (or any other minority group) in society weren't racist. They did make race an issue, but they weren’t racist. Sometimes when you are a minority you do feel that you have to give 120% when everyone else might be giving 100% just to prove that you are as good as the rest or can fit in with the best of them. (Although that is not Sean’s strategy, maybe it is Vee’s) It is a completely different ball game. I don't think that is a racist statement, it is just how it is sometimes. Like it or don't like it. Just like you family member was asked to change her name to "fit in." I am sure that she was pretty upset about it, but she either did it or she didn't. If she didn't did the coworkers complain less? Or did they secretly still wish she had changed that name? Or did she change it? I am sure whatever the outcome she felt somewhat out of place. But back to the subject (again) Sean's laziness is a poor example to the kiddies, but his comments are something that most of the kids in South Central feel almost everyday. They don't feel that way because of him. They feel that way because that is how life goes sometimes. It is just something they have to live with. Does that make them racist or does that make them human?
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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03-16-02, 08:54 PM (EST)
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30. "Imagine This Place......." |
Imagine this is a Home, where a party is going on. We have a host who wanted to invite many people of different views to have interesting and entertaining conversations. Each room ( forum ) is for discussing different things, or maybe the same thing in different ways. The Host likes his party organized because he finds that the guests enjoy it more that way ( as does he). In each room there are lively discussions going on, but all are free to wander from room to room, finding new ways to enjoy interacting with each other and the topics. There is even a game room , in case the guests want to let their hair down and have a snack and get a little goofy. The Host has found that there have to be rules, because every so often someone wanders into the party that wants to track mud all over the place, or write all over the walls with markers, or pee on the furinture. People who generally want to ruin the party for everyone, or who want to make it their own party, without thought to the other guests. When you have so many individuals gathered in one place, there needs to be some order, so that people can enjoy themselves, the subjects being discussed, and each other. Now our Host has always seemed to want an interesting group, with different views and opinions. So though he doesn't have to, usually he explains proper party behavior and asks the guest to conform, or more on. For those that insist on trashing the place, well, the Host will bounce them. It is his home, his party, we are guests. We behave, or are told to leave. The internet is a huge place, with lots of different parties going on. This party isn't what you want? Well sorry, you can't change it. You should go look for a party that fits your interests. Trying to take over and stomp your views where they aren't wanted, makes it less enjoyable for us all. Trying to turn conversation into a social disscussion about what is wrong with all the other guests , doesn't fly.
Webby doesn't ban posters for what they look like or where they live, or what their personal life experience may be. He bans them for being rude.
Sorry SB if I went a little off the subject, but we have many new people lately, some I hope will understand and stay with us a long time. I want people to know that what you have built here is a special place, and appreciate being invited back to the Party. I know I do.
( hahaha and when I first read your post I thought the whole thing was going to be left turned into a disscussion on Education in this Country)
EBug
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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03-17-02, 01:55 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: Imagine This Place......." |
Sean is a teacher? What does he teach, Bad Attitude 101?
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hrc2u 146 desperate attention whore postings
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03-18-02, 01:48 PM (EST)
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36. "RE: Imagine This Place......." |
I think we can be sure its not swimming lessons. Perhaps he's hoping that He'll receive endorcements contracts from Laz-E-Boy when he returns and can retire from being a teacher. Imagine what the school board is thinking after watching the show.(I'm sure it's not lets give him a raise before another district tries to entice him away.
And: man I wouldn't want him to be my partner in the 3-legged race.Imagined conversation.
Hey Sean what did you do when you were on the island? Did the challenges wear you down? NO, not at all.
Was it hard to lose all those challenges? NO
If you had to do it all over again what would you do? Maybe, something.
What one luxuary item did you wish you had while on the item? My Laz-e-boy recliner.
Would that have helped you at all?
Yes, I could've rested up so I could've preformed at my peak in those challenges.
But that's just my thoughts.
hrc2u
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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 10:50 AM (EST)
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39. "RE: Imagine This Place......." |
>The Host has found that there
>have to be rules, because
>every so often someone wanders
>into the party that
>wants to track mud all
>over the place, or write
>all over the walls with
>markers, or pee on the
>furinture. Buggy, I promised to stop peeing on the furniture -- why did you have to bring it up? Now...am...tempted... Anyone trying to picture Sean doing Shakespeare? It's just not working for me.
 
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Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 05:23 PM (EST)
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44. "Sean and the Bard" |
Anyone trying to picture Sean doing Shakespeare? It's just not working for me.You know, Bebo, there are plenty of lazy, whiney characters in Shakespeare's plays--just look at Hamlet. I think Sean would make a spectacular Hamlet--not only is he whiney and complainy, but he drives poor Ophelia crazy. We may see Vee in a couple of weeks wandering around the island gathering fruit, "Here's papaya for you Sean for laziness and disloyalty, and for you Sarah, lemons and grapefruits..." Of course, the obvious choice would be Othello, with dear Rob playing Iago--with all those alpha male issues, I think he'd be perfect!
We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
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03-19-02, 05:44 PM (EST)
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45. "Sean's likely credentials and a bit about his language..." |
This whole discussion is rather interesting to me because of my background in linguistics and English as well as teaching. OFG already answered the first question pretty well, but I thought I'd add a little more. In California, there has been such a need for teachers in many inner-city areas as well as rural areas, that these types of school districts only require what is called an "emergency credential." This usually requires a B.A., although I've known people not yet finished with their B.A.s to get these emergency credentials as well. All that is entailed in getting this credential is to pass the CBEST test (what someone mentioned before as a math/english proficiency test). At most universities, in order to graduate, one must pass some sort of writing exit exam that proves the person is proficient enough in their writing skills to earn a B.A. These don't require excellent writing, but do prove that a person either took their required English classes or met some sort of equivalent. One does not need skills beyond those required to pass this test to pass the CBEST, and this does not necessarily factor in grammar. Because Sean did go to a university and obtain a degree, we can assume he learned to speak and write Standard American English there (if not in boarding school). However, this does not mean he would completely drop is home dialect, African-American Vernacular English (or Ebonics to some people). Now, it is not uncommon for teachers, especially in the Kindergarten through 8th grade levels, to speak at the students' levels, and also to speak in a dialect that they will understand. Since the students Sean is teaching most likely speak African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), he probably does use this to some extent to identify with his students. However, my guess is he's perfectly capable of switching from one dialect (AAVE) to Standared American English (SAE) rather easily at this point. One should understand though that Sean's grammar is not necessarily bad when assuming he's speaking AAVE. There is an actual grammar to AAVE and he follows it just fine. Since he's not speaking SAE, he's not going to use the grammar of that dialect. Another explanation for Sean using AAVE so heavily on this show lies in some communication theories (I know, you're all going back to school now, but bear with me). There is such a thing as communication accomodation wherein a person modifies their dialect depending on whom their speaking to. If a person wants to identify with a certain person's culture and language more, they will modify their speech to be more like that person's speech. However, if a person feels threatened or as though they need to distinguish their own identity more, they will over-emphasize their own dialect. I think the latter is what Sean is doing in this game. He obviously doesn't feel comfortable with this people, and he wants to show them that he's different from them by using his home dialect to an extreme that he sometimes is nearly incomprehensible to those of us who only speak SAE and/or our own home dialect. Anyhow, that's my explanation. Sorry it's so long and heady, but my background got the better of me. I really don't know what kind of a teacher Sean is, but my guess is he does some switching of dialects with his students much like the above in order to identify with them. Let's just hope that he's not as lazy and whiney as he is on the show. We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
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03-20-02, 12:04 PM (EST)
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48. "What Does This Teach Us?" |
This was the scene that got the ball rolling, Sean and Vecepia were on the shore while Hunter, Gina, Patricia, Rob and Sarah were playing in the water. I don't know if it is true vernacular AAVE, but there were some worthwhile things said here. The scene was intercut with confessional moments.Sean Confessional: It was nice to bond with somebody who understands. There are certain things with black people, we don't even have to finish thoughts and we already know where we are. Sean to Vecepia: Aside from us, the other five are different, but the commonality bond that bonds them is that ... (Vecepia and Sean both nod heads.) Is that. Vecepia Confessional: Sean is what I call him, Malcolm Farrakhan. He's got that Malcolm X militant type brother, and then he's got that real intelligent, outspoken type of young man. Sean to Vecepia: Even the fact that you and I are sitting here talking right now can be perceived as -- Vecepia to Sean: We're strategizing. Sean to Vecepia: That we're strategizing. Vecepia: Mm-hm. Sean Confessional: Sometimes the game isn't necessarily fair because me and her are playing a whole 'nother dimension of the game that they don't even know, that when you are a person of color and you are the only one you have to play it. And they don't even have to worry about it, everyone can just be themselves. We have to be ourselves but then hold back a little bit. On top of that, she believes in God, I believe in God, and we're bound by Christ. And that's a stronger bond, stronger than race, stronger than anything. Vecepia to Sean: I can even tell what people are going to say. Sean to Vecepia: Yeah, be like, "You know, those two ungrateful Negroes, take them to an island and they still complaining!" I mean, where is your Al Sharpton now? (Vecepia laughs.) I mean, he's not gonna come out on the beach and just -- (Sean starts laughing, cut to commercial.) Personally, I know that there are racists out there, but putting racism on all whites just isn't right. There was also the assumption that being white is something that bonds all white people, which is just ludicrous. Sean brought his agenda to the island, and the problem I have with that is agendas should be left out of the game, it throws the players off and causes them to mess up at the game. Cap'n Zoe Just YoHoHoee!
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Frau Hexe 716 desperate attention whore postings
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03-20-02, 12:14 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
Thanks for posting this dabo. It seems that when Vee and Sean spoke to one another, he used far more Standard English, which is pretty darn interesting. The only time he really slipped into AAVE was when he was talking about what the white people on the tribe would say--odd.Personally, I know that there are racists out there, but putting racism on all whites just isn't right. There was also the assumption that being white is something that bonds all white people, which is just ludicrous. Sean brought his agenda to the island, and the problem I have with that is agendas should be left out of the game, it throws the players off and causes them to mess up at the game. Sean's been making some pretty gross generalizations throughout the game--and that's what racists do: they generalize about a specific group of people based on race. It's not healthy, nor is it effective, whether it be a white person talking about African-Americans, Asians talking about Latinos/Latinas or African-Americans talking about whites. It's never accurate, and nothing good can come of it, even if the generalizations are seemingly positive ones. Sean's feelings about whites is really no better than Rudy's comments about homosexuals, blacks, and any other groups he took issue with. We love men. We just don't want to see them naked.~ Two Nice Girls
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sittem14 112 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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03-20-02, 07:13 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
First, thanks to Frau for a GREAT discussion of the language issue. It's very factual, reasonable and fair. At the very least the discussion does not pre-judge Sean's speech patterns nor his teaching ability (which for all I know may be awful - but how can we make that determiniation here based on his speech - I'd still like to see his video - can anyone help me with a link????)And, dabo, thanks for posting the conversation that got the ball rolling. I had intended to, for slightly different purposes as you'll see, but you are correct in that it got the ball rolling. After these alleged (by many) racist remarks and then the continual showing of Sean being lazy a great deal of enmity has emereged for him. I'm not even going to claim it's not deserved until I see more of Sean unfold. However, before I make that judgment, help me understand where the racism was in Sean's statements? Here's my take on each statement. Sean's bonding with Vee because they understand each other. For them it's because of two primary issues - race and spirituality. If he had just talked about the bond in Christ would that have been ok? I know people don't want to hear that on tv, but other than that was it ok? The other five share a "commonality" - that being that they are white. Well, being white in a white culture is a commonality, just like Sean and Vee have a commonality. Naturally, the five whites understand each other more easily. Is that racist? Strategizing - EVERYONE gets accused of strategizing when they spend time with another person apart from the group. There's nothing new there. Then, the big dog - the fairness issue. People of color (here's a gross generalization - sorry Frau) know that to operate in white culture, they gotta be a little different than who they actually are (like the language issue you spoke of Frau). Sean is not addressing a racist issue here - I doubt very much he thinks anyone there is racist or that he very often even runs into racists in his daily life. Ours has evolved from a racist culture (in general - of course there are still racists - both white and black) into something else. However, he is aware that interactions in our culture are affected by racialization. We each grow up and operate in certain environments. Those environments essentially dictate who we are and affect the way we think and act. If you are Af Am you will GENERALLY have different experiences in education, in where you live, in where you worship, in who you marry, in what you read and watch on TV, in what you eat, in the work you do and in the amount of income you have. Your experiences in all these areas are affected by what color you are. The differences for the most part are not qualitative in character, but there are differences. (Of course, there is a qualitative difference in education, at least in urban America - also in the average jobs and level of income where Af Ams are at a disadvantage.) So, because we are all racialized we naturally act and relate differently with people who are like us and with people who are not like us. In addition, if Hunter and Gina had had a similar discussion (different language patterns of course) regarding five Af Ams out in the water, the validity of what they would have said would have been just as positive. I can tell you from living the past 22 years of my life as a minority in an overwhelmingly Af Am neighborhood, working environment and church that I could have expressed the same kind of feelings about my life here at times. Since I've been here such a long time I've adapted pretty well and I celebrate the diversity of my life, but sometimes it's a ##### to be different, especially with people you don't know and who prejudge you (and of course we all do that when we first meet someone based upon our backgrounds). Fortnately, most of my friends these days are Af Am and I could walk into a 100% Af Am environment and operate just fine. In fact, I have more difficulty relating in a 100% white environment because the conversation and assumptions regarding people of color are skewed and racialized. I just chalk it up to people not really having a basis of understanding. And I look forward to getting back into the environment in which I feel most comfortable. Home is where our heart is and it's where we feel most comfortable. Thanks for the discussion. I'm glad for Sean "coming out" as he did. Unfortunately, from my perspective not many people have understood him and are puttin' the hate on. However, it takes discussions like this to move forward in understanding our differences. Much as we white folks would like to insist there aren't any real differences and everyone is on an even playing field, it just ain't so. Oops - that statement be gettin' me in a heap o trouble I 'spect.
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-20-02, 10:37 PM (EST)
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51. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
Sittem, I would have had no problem with anything Sean said could I have viewed it as being about racists rather than whites. But what I heard was him talking about whites, lumping us all together. If that doesn't make him a racist by some people's yardsticks, then he is at least prejudicially biased, a bigot (and yes, he's not the only bigot we've seen in Survivor, and he's also not the worst). That bigotry is what set things in motion. Yes, there certainly racists who would say the "ungrateful Negroes" thing in the much harsher language Sean probably would have used had there not been cameras rolling; putting that on all whites is what was wrong. I had no problem with the strategizing thing, the bonding stuff between Sean and Vecepia, the religious statement, only with the assumptions that were racially based and put on all white people. It isn't even like I was offended by it, I just thought it was wrongheaded.You are correct, it is far from a perfect or fair world. I may have more about this, but this is getting pretty far off from Bashing. Actually, if you want to see some white anger about the unfairness in the world, in a format where anyone with any sense in the world would be able to laugh at it, just watch Jerry Springer any time he has the Nazis on, allowing them to show the world just how dumb they are. At least Sean doesn't seem hateful in his conduct, and that's a good thing.  SMILES ARE FREE
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
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03-20-02, 10:39 PM (EST)
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52. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
Sittem14 thanks for another great post! You have expressed what I was thinking better than I could!Thanks Dabo for the script! In looking at the conversation again, Sean and Vee's conversation was about how they relate to each other and how as blacks they relate differently to whites than perhaps whites relate to whites or blacks to blacks. They whole key to that conversation was the relationship issues, not that we hate each other, only that we interact differently with each other. Now, tonight on the other hand . . .well Sean should have never opened up his mouth tonight! I hope his kids did not see his behavior! That was a terrible example! Never give up! Never give up! The Roots theme comment was actually funny! I am sure a lot of you are going to say that was racist, but it was meant to be a joke. You know like the term "they are working us like slaves." That is just slang . . .not a racist statement. Just a joke. Ha-ha!
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EmuTheElf 1 desperate attention whore postings
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03-20-02, 11:14 PM (EST)
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54. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
The Roots theme comment was actually funny! I am sure a lot of you are going to say that was racist, but it was meant to be a joke. You know like the term "they are working us like slaves." That is just slang . . .not a racist statement. Just a joke. Ha-ha!The Roots theme comment seemed to be a joke (though I found it rather lame), but Sean made two or three other references to slavery and I don't think he was kidding.
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smiles 675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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03-21-02, 05:29 PM (EST)
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57. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
He was kidding (I think), although I don't think many people got it.
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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03-21-02, 05:48 PM (EST)
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58. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
I posted this same thought in my comments about Sean on my favorites list in Fanatics, but it bears repeating here...Sean's repeated use of the words "slave" and "slavery" and his reference to the "Roots" theme are obvious attempts at humor. The problem is that such jokes are flat out insulting to those who have fought, suffered, and even died so that someone like Sean could even go on a show like Survivor. If Sean thinks getting a free trip to the South Pacific and playing a friggin' game for money and getting his 15 minutes is even in the same hemisphere as slavery, he is more stupid than I care to think about. When you use the word "slave" and "slavery" in a mixed racial environment, the word(s) has a very politically loaded meaning. It's not a joke to someone like Gabe coming from someone like Sean, whom he doesn't even know. So now Gabe has to be defensive about asking Sean to do no more (and probably a lot less) than the rest of the tribe has done lest he be perceived as "racist". That's just ludicrous. I don't, however, believe that Sean is a racist. Rather I think he is a loudmouth, punk who doesn't know how good he has it and is fighting battles that his forefathers and mothers already won. Every time he uses those words in that context, he trivializes their efforts. And for that he should be ashamed.  Fester
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PepeLePew13 26138 desperate attention whore postings
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03-21-02, 07:29 PM (EST)
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59. "RE: What Does This Teach Us?" |
I agree with you, FF, on every word in your post. Sean is trivializing what his forefathers fought for and Gabe is probably left feeling like he can't say another word to Sean in case it comes out wrong. Like I mentioned in another thresd, Vecepia was rather adamant in distancing herself away from Sean and his comments. My problem is that at this point in time I see Vecepia (amongst others) as a serious Survivor contestant who is out to do the best she can and go as far as possible -- while I see Sean solely as an angry person who's got a lot of issues he'd rather deal with and look down on women's roles than to try to get along with other people he's going to be hanging out with 24 hours a day playing for some serious cash on national TV.
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NorthOfBoston 158 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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03-20-02, 10:46 PM (EST)
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53. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
Thanks to Frau for making this point:"Now, it is not uncommon for teachers, especially in the Kindergarten through 8th grade levels, to speak at the students' levels, and also to speak in a dialect that they will understand. Since the students Sean is teaching most likely speak African-American Vernacular English (AAVE), he probably does use this to some extent to identify with his students. However, my guess is he's perfectly capable of switching from one dialect (AAVE) to Standared American English (SAE) rather easily at this point." As a former high school English teacher, I found that I, at times, had to change my dialect a bit to reach some of the students. You may criticize it, but it worked. And it didn't stop me from successfully teaching SAE guidelines in speaking and writing. As far as his attitude, I agree that everyone is a fish out of water in these shows. Kim Johnson was a former grammar school teacher and she had some shady ways. Perhaps she wasn't so overt in her complaining, but let me tell all of you who have never been in a teachers' lunchroom... Sean's attitude pales in comparison to some of the things I have heard. What's really important is what he teaches his students. And besides, inner city New York isn't exactly on the highest end of the education pay scale. So Sean must enjoy working with his students, and he must be pretty good at it if he has managed to stay.
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ConningOfficer 585 desperate attention whore postings
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03-21-02, 08:05 AM (EST)
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55. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
BUMP.After Sean's comments last night, this thread needs to go back towards the top.
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AresMars 283 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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03-21-02, 11:30 AM (EST)
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56. "RE: Anyone one else really upset that Sean is teaching America's youth?" |
After last night all I can say is Sean is one sick puppy. He uses the tragic history of slavery in America as a weapon to instill guilt in the whites and he should be ashamed of himself.
When he refers to slavery he's not thinking of the people who died and suffered he's thinking on how he can best use that to advance himself.
God Bless America
There are two types of people, predators and prey, and the sound you hear is the sharpening of my claws.
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