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Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-11-00, 01:15 AM (EST) "Why Richard WON'T win" It's all in the editing. If CBS wants to hold on to viewers for SurvivorII, the outcome has to be what the PEOPLE want. Since CBS can't control who won, they CAN control how a person is PORTRAYED to the audience, by editing them the right way. Richard is clearly the enemy. He's been portrayed as devious, manipulative, and utterly ANNOYING. But that's how WE see him, how CBS WANTS us to see him. Even the castaways admit he really wasn't that bad. If Rich had been the winner, CBS would've somehow found a way to make him more appealing. Truth is, in any type of drama, you need a bad guy people LOVE to hate.. Richard is that bad guy. No one has stirred up more conversation, and jokes (He even gets more AIRTIME). The bad guy is more often the most appealing character, and many take more joy in seeing the bad guy fail, than seeing the good guy prevail. Some see Richard as conniving, but deserving to win because he's played a good game. Most of America, however, sees him as the annoying naked fat guy. The "Average Joe" viewer is NOT rooting for him to win. CBS WANTS that "Average Joe" to KEEP watching, and, mostly, to watch Survivor II. If Richard wins, most people would be disgusted. They won't want to watch SurvivorII. "THIS is how you win? By conniving, and backstabbing? Count me out!" If, however, the ultimate backstabbers FAIL, then all hope is restored. "Rich and Susan were conniving, and evil, but,hey, they lost! Ha!" Unless they start softening Richard up in the following episodes (so he becomes the bad guy turned good, ie Darth Vader returns to the Force) count on Richard LOSING, and America cheering that all's right with the world. That's exactly what CBS wants.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Superman 08-11-00 1  RE: Why Richard WON'T win jpb 08-11-00 2  Richard is toast! AyatollahKhomeini 08-11-00 3  RE: Why Richard WON'T win Conspiracy Jim 08-11-00 4  RE: Why Richard WON'T win Devin 08-11-00 5    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 6    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 7    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 8    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 9    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 10    RE: Why Richard WON'T win Naked 08-11-00 11        RE: Why Richard WON'T win Margarita 08-11-00 12  RE: Why Richard WON'T win jane 08-11-00 13  social experiment jurymember 08-11-00 14    RE: social experiment flying squirrel 08-11-00 15        RE: social experiment Longhorn 08-11-00 16            six degrees of evil jurymember 08-12-00 17                Ride Rich's coattails to the millio... BadAs 08-12-00 18                    RE: Ride Rich's coattails to the mi... Longhorn 08-13-00 19                RE: six degrees of evil Margarita 08-16-00 23                RE: six degrees of evil Margarita 08-16-00 24                RE: six degrees of evil TheDazzler 08-17-00 26            RE: social experiment Margarita 08-16-00 22            RE: social experiment Margarita 08-16-00 25    RE: social experiment Margarita 08-16-00 20    RE: social experiment Margarita 08-16-00 21

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Superman 3157 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 08-11-00, 06:38 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" To be honest - I don't believe that Rich will win, BUT not for the reasons you've stated. I firmly believe that CBS would have LOVED to see richard win because you would remember it. There was a similar post to this on SS.com a while back and I agree with the logic on that post: The movies that you remember most are the ones where the bad guys win. America would be upset if Rich won, agreed, but they would not soon forget it and would carry that enthusiasm until Survivor II.   Top

jpb 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 08-11-00, 08:37 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" Was Survivor II already planned before all of the Survivor I shows were created? If not, CBS may have have edited the show so that the most interesting, talked about character (Richard) would win. Even though he is considered evil, Richard has been a big reason why the show is as fun as it is to watch.   Top

AyatollahKhomeini 2008 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 08-11-00, 09:57 AM (EST) 3. "Richard is toast!" I agree that Richard won't win. Two additional points: 1. Richard is clearly the dominant personality on the island, so the show had to be based around him. If he was really obnoxious, he could not have held the TA together. I'll bet Markie B. could have chosen plenty of scenes showing him joking with the Pagongs, boosting the morale of the Tagi "team," etc., IF it had fit his purpose. Bad guys may be the most memorable characters, but audiences love a happy ending (remember that the best Star Wars movie -- "The Empire Strikes Back" -- was also the least successful at the box office, because it was the only one without an upbeat ending). 2. As I've said before, I think CBS was terrified of negative publicity after Richard's arrest. What better way to minimize the harm of a possible conviction than to portray Richard as a disagreeable person. I'll be interested to hear Richard's answer when they ask him if he feels he was portrayed fairly on the show!   Top

Conspiracy Jim 198 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 08-11-00, 10:17 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I must fully agree. CBS and MB are probably the best at doing this kind of TV. Does the audiance want to know for sure that Colleen will be licked off? ... no!!! So what do they do?... the play it out and have Rich, Sue and Rudy "discuss" how they're going to boot Kelly or Sean. Truth?... no. But damn good TV. What happens in almost every classic story from Snow White to Start Wars? Good triumphs over evil!!! And since CBS has hours and hours of footage, they can make us like or dislike (even hate) anyone they want us to. To tell the truth Richard is probably the best survivor of them all but the ahow makes us hate him. The question is why? Well he is evil incarnate, or at least that is what we are made to believe. With Richard being the most evil of the 5 left it is a good bet that he is one of the final two and is the loser of the final TC (since good must triumph over evil). Now the only other question is who are they portraying as "good", or at least who do they make us like more than the rest (out of the final 5 - I love(d) Colleen too)? Well we see Kelly as being an ultimate bitch, Susan is an inarticulate- uneducated- coniving- eveil whench (but not as bad as Rich). And lastly you have the grizzled, lovable, geriatric geezer that we all love. Why do we love him (not in a homosexual way? Because CBS makes us love him. That to me spells out and confirms what you have been saying all along... evil Richard does not win but logically makes the final 2 and is triumphed over by the good Rudy.   Top

Devin 103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 08-11-00, 11:32 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I agree, I don't think he will win. There is really no favorable matchup for a jury vote. Plus, the National Geographic article said he didn't win. However, I think it would be truly amazing, if for once, the good guys didn't win. I don't think it would turn people off, if would just surprise some because how many people expect the bad guy to come out on top on tv.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:36 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:36 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:36 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:39 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:39 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 08-11-00, 12:39 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I hated Rich at the begining of the show, but I would love to see him win now. Remember, along with all of the evidence out there that supports various theories on who eventually wins, MB is planting a good deal of false leads.   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-11-00, 06:11 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" Personally, I tend to favor the bad guys. Like some of you said, it makes for more interesting story telling. However, we must remember, this is CBS we're talking about. We're also talking about the avaerage Americans. MOST PEOPLE WANT A HAPPY ENDING. That goes for any type of entertainment. I respect the fact that many of you admire Rich and root for him to win. You are, however, a minority in the viewing public. Richard is nationally despised and ridiculed. People don't want him to win.By saying CBS is setting him up to win, you're giving them way too much artistic credit. In mainstream, the good guys win. Someone said the most memorable movies have bad guys who win? Um, name one. Many memorable movies have SAD endings, but they don't include a despised person getting away with murder. And those movies where a bad guy gets away with it tend to portray that bad guy in a favorable light (he/she can be seductive or sexy, or good looking.) Richard hasn't been set up that way. Not only has he been portrayed as devious, but thoroughly unappealing. How many naked fat guy jokes have we heard? And about Survivor II, I have no doubt in my mind that when Survivor I was pitched, they had a franchise in mind. That's the way tv works. Heck, they had a franchise planned for Who Wants To Marry a Multimillionaire, before it blew up in their faces. Therefore, CBS MUST have wanted to keep viewers interested from the getgo, and there is nothing more interesting than someone you love to hate. When Richard gets voted off, which he eventually will, America will cheer. We're still a long way from allowing the bad guy to triumph in mainstream television.   Top

jane 20 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 08-11-00, 08:38 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Why Richard WON'T win" I believed that Richard wouldn't win before because of the editing. Yes, I "love to hate" him. I believed this until Colleen got the boot. Now, there is no one left to root for!! Susan - well, what can I say. She played the dumb redneck role to a T. We've seen her rude remarks to Sean (at least TWO "get some balls" references, idiot, etc.) Generally, disliked. Kelly - Could have redeemed herself by voting off Richard w/Pagong. Went back and forth between Tagi/Pagong. Why did she vote Gervase in ep. 10? Even Susan doesn't like her anymore. Sean - Dr. Doofus? With an alphabetical strategy? Seemed to promise a breakfast to Kelly on the yacht, then unceremoniously dumped her for Richard. Rudy - Hmmmm. General consensus is that he wins it all. STILL -- he's made several derogatory remarks about homosexuality (He warned the army people in that episode with the obstacle course about Richard being gay - what the hell?), he also said something about using the bible as toilet paper. Would the producers really have included these comments if he was the ultimate winner? Final words - grumpy old man. And, of course, we have Richard. Controls the alliance. Reminds everyone not to vote for him, cuz he catches the fish. Arrogance drives us all crazy. We've been waiting for him to lose for weeks. At this point, I will have NO satisfaction of him losing (because he'll get a lot of money anyway), unless it really is true that he spends ALL his winnings on court costs. Personally, I hate them all! SO. Is the winner the one we dislike the least? Or, why not edit it so that the winner is the one we have hated all along? It would be memorable. We'll see.   Top

jurymember 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 08-11-00, 08:43 PM (EST) 14. "social experiment" I don't think MB is in this to make America feel good about its heros. I think he is in it for the fun of the social experiment. To really see what it is that makes a social survivor. I think that when the show ends that is what will be dissected and discussed: what qualities are required to survive in the political world, the workplace, the community, school, etc. If the qualities are backstabbing, conniving, manipulation, then that will be a fascinating conclusion. I don't believe Rich wins, but not for the reasons you say. I don't think he's shown as evil, but as arrogant and pride-ful. He has great qualities too: humor, leadership, single-mindedness. I loved that he asked Colleen "What makes you happy?" He's like anyone else in the world: complex and made of good and bad. I do agree, though, that the editing is designed to build up to a full story line. But everyone who has been booted off has remarkably said in interviews that for the most part their portrayal was right on. This is not about pandering to America's needs; it's about seeing what traits are required to survive...and it may not be a pretty picture in the end.   Top

flying squirrel 290 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 08-11-00, 08:47 PM (EST) 15. "RE: social experiment" in the Greek dramas, hubris is a fatal flaw. maybe mark burnett has read them too!   Top

Longhorn 17 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 08-11-00, 09:10 PM (EST) 16. "RE: social experiment" Conspiracy Jim, did you have a Freudian slip in the third sentence of your post? MB has said he used the footage he had to create a story. No story is interesting without a villain. There's no doubt the editing has intentionally cast Richard as that villain. How many people watch every week hoping Richard will get voted off? Of course, I believe he really is as bad as he seems. He won't win. Evil won't prevail on this show. If Richard was the winner, it would have been easy to make Rudy the villain, or probably even Susan.   Top

jurymember 68 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 08-12-00, 01:42 AM (EST) 17. "six degrees of evil" Longhorn: why is Richard more "evil" than Susan? She's JUST as bad if not worse. Can you help me understand why you see him as worse than her? I disagree that they are trying to make Richard evil/villainous. He is what he is. I see them including non-evil footage of him. I just think they are making fun of him...treating him like Faust in Shakespeare..not a king, but an anti-king.   Top

BadAs 372 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 08-12-00, 04:17 AM (EST) 18. "Ride Rich's coattails to the million...GO RUDY" If I was one of the survivors (TA ) I would never vote rich out unless I thought he was targeting me. Think about it. In a Final 2 jury of 4 PA/3 TA any body going against Rich wins!! GO RUDY!!   Top

Longhorn 17 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 08-13-00, 00:11 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Ride Rich's coattails to the million...GO RUDY" BasAs, I agree. As i said in another post, Rudy will not only try to keep himself alive, but Richard as well, knowing the Pagongers will never vote the million to Richard. Susan is portrayed as evil, but Richard is portrayed as evil genius. He's the manipulator. He's said several times that he controls who gets voted off. And he said, "I mention at every TC that I catch the fish, but it isn't catching fish that has kept me from being voted off, it's Me that has kept me from being voted off." Next Wednesday will be the Night of the Long Knives when Richard, Rudy and Sean put the knife into Susan.   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:34 PM (EST) 23. "RE: six degrees of evil" Richard is the ARROGANT villain. I agree that Susan and Rudy are just as villanous, but the emphasis has always been on Rich. The media has focused on him. He is the one seen as controlling the alliance. He's the fat naked inconsiderate jerk. That's how America views him, that's why he won't win (Susan won't either, but she's a lesser evil)   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:34 PM (EST) 24. "RE: six degrees of evil" Richard is the ARROGANT villain. I agree that Susan and Rudy are just as villanous, but the emphasis has always been on Rich. The media has focused on him. He is the one seen as controlling the alliance. He's the fat naked inconsiderate jerk. That's how America views him, that's why he won't win (Susan won't either, but she's a lesser evil)   Top

TheDazzler 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 08-17-00, 02:41 AM (EST) 26. "RE: six degrees of evil" Jurymember, I completely agree with you on this point. If anything, Richard keeps things interesting, a trait of which MB and company are well aware - which is why Rich gets so much screen time. I've never seen him in a truly evil light - he's intelligent, he's arrogant, he's the "naked fat guy" Letterman makes fun of, and he's even thoughtful sometimes. His behaviour, although devious, doesn't really suggest he's the evil incarnate we all make him out to be. And I'm not entirely convinced the jury would vote against Rich if Rich makes the final two, regardless of whom he is up against. I think those of us who believe this to be a given are not taking into account that: 1) we as viewers get to see more of Rich's machinations and manipulations than the castaways EVER got to see so therefore, they don't necessarily have the same perspective regarding these things. PROOF: Yes, Colleen has said she was annoyed with Rich but also noted that many of the castaways are different in the game than they are in real life. Jenna even said Rich wasn't as bad as he's now made out to seem. 2) what we do see isn't necessarily even the way it played out, due to the fact that we KNOW the truth doesn't necessarily come out due to editing. PROOF: The Colleen/Greg romance which never really was and the portrayal of Colleen as somewhat meek and adherent to Greg subsequent to Greg's ouster, only after which she develops her own opinions. Colleen said on The Early Show that she was opinionated and talkative the whole time... they only edited things to look a certain way to make it more interesting. Which is my point. The best way to keep people watching is not the whole good vs. evil element and the hopes that one will prevail over the other. Perhaps the best way is simply to keep things interesting. And what's more stimulating than simple human nature? We don't necessarily need villians and heroes - they're too predicable and can even possibly become *gasp* boring. There is simply no way I can subscribe to the idea that people won't watch if Rich wins (although I don't believe he will). After all, he is conceivably the most interesting character of the lot. - Daz -   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:29 PM (EST) 22. "RE: social experiment" Right on! That's what I've been saying all along!   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:35 PM (EST) 25. "RE: social experiment" Right on! That's what I've been saying all along!   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:26 PM (EST) 20. "RE: social experiment" "This is not about pandering to America's needs; it's about seeing what traits are required to survive." I utterly disgree! TV is a BUSINESS. Your statement is completely ideaslistic. What it comes down to is RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS. Since there's not an overwhelmingly likeable character, CBS has set up a character people LOVE to hate. It doesn't matter WHO beats him, just that he gets beaten! Most of Survivor's viewers aren't posting messages here, carefully analizing every single detail. This show IS about pandering to America's needs. It's about getting the ratings, making money. To KEEP viewers interested, you need to create DRAMA. You create drama by editing the show in a particular way. Let's be realistic here. This is a game show, and no one wants the bad guy to win. There's no good guy (save maybe Rudy, who has begun to appear more likeable in recent episodes), but Rich has clearly been portrayed as unlikeable. Is he evil? of course not! Does he deserve to win? Well, maybe. But America doesn't want him to. And he won't.   Top

Margarita 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 08-16-00, 11:27 PM (EST) 21. "RE: social experiment" "This is not about pandering to America's needs; it's about seeing what traits are required to survive." I utterly disgree! TV is a BUSINESS. Your statement is completely idealistic. What it comes down to is RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS. Since there's not an overwhelmingly likeable character, CBS has set up a character people LOVE to hate. It doesn't matter WHO beats him, just that he gets beaten! Most of Survivor's viewers aren't posting messages here, carefully analizing every single detail. This show IS about pandering to America's needs. It's about getting the ratings, making money. To KEEP viewers interested, you need to create DRAMA. You create drama by editing the show in a particular way. Let's be realistic here. This is a game show, and no one wants the bad guy to win. There's no good guy (save maybe Rudy, who has begun to appear more likeable in recent episodes), but Rich has clearly been portrayed as unlikeable. Is he evil? of course not! Does he deserve to win? Well, maybe. But America doesn't want him to. And he won't.   Top

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