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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"And you complain about Ashcroft?"
SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 06:52 AM (EST)
 
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"And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
You should read this link first:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=541&u=/ap/20030505/ap_on_he_me/sars_higher_education&printer=1 Poor Ashcroft. He was attacked before even being confirmed as Attorney General. His FBI gets raked over the coals in the aftermath of September 11th for not predicting the attack, but the same people attacking the FBI then complain about the FBI checking people out in an effort to try to prevent new terrorist attacks (not that I'm saying PATRIOT isn't flawed, but you get my idea here). Then these same people start screaming when foreign students come under scrutiny, never mind that the Sept. 11th terrorists came in under student visas. Poor guy just can't win. I want to know if the same people who have pilloried John Ashcroft will now extend their wrath to the University of California at Berkeley for that school's blatant, blatant discrimination? Looks like Cal-Berkeley is not just checking to see if you have SARS, oh no, that's just their front. They're just saying that if you're from China, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong, you'll be denied access to their college. Blatant, blatant discrimination. Note: I'm saying this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I am trying to make a point that Cal-Berkeley is practicing discrimination, just as the PATRIOT act does, reasons notwithstanding.   
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 09:54 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 09:55 AM (EST)And you complain about Ashcroft? Uh, yes, yes I do. Let me count the ways... Better yet, go HERE to get links to all of the following articles about a man run amok: Oct. 10, 2002: Medical Marijuana Users Sue U.S. Over Ashcroft's heavy-handed Crackdown, CNN Sept. 24, 2002: Ashcroft Seeks To Overrule Oregon Voters, CNN Sept. 19, 2002: Ashcroft Targets Arab Visitors, Tamara Audi, Detroit Free Press August 18, 2002: Closemouthed at Justice, Washington Post Editorial July 31, 2002: Ashcroft's Bad Aim, Dennis A. Henigan, Law.com July 28, 2002: Ashcroft's Asterisks, Mary McGory, Washington Post July 26, 2002: Ashcroft Assailed on Gun Policy Memo, Dan Eggen, Washington Post July 24, 2002: Ashcroft's Terrorism Policies Dismay Some Conservatives, Neil A. Lewis, New York Times July 18, 2002: Spotlight John, Richard Cohen, Washington Post July 17, 2002: Ashcroft vs. Americans, Editorial, Boston Globe July 16, 2002: Ashcroft's control looks like the political witch hunt of yesteryear, Robyn E. Blumner, St. Petersburg Times July 15, 2002: Reagan-appointed judge has words for Ashcroft,
Joel Connelly, Seattle Post-Intelligencer July 8, 2002: Patriot Revolution? Cities From Cambridge to Berkeley Reject Anti-Terror Measure, Dean Schabner, ABCNews.com July 4, 2002: Life, Liberty, Ashcroft, Mary McGrory, Washington Post July 2, 2002: A Terrorist Manifesto? Ed Quillen, Denver Post
July 1, 2002: Ashcroft Aggressively Pursues Death Penalty,
Dan Eggen, Washington Post
June 2, 2002: Ashcroft Iran, Katha Pollitt, The NationJune 21, 2002: Did John Ashcroft Scare You? ##### Meyer, CBSNews.com Bush, Ashcroft Run Roughshod Over Bill Of Rights, Cato Institute News Release All of Us Are in Danger, Nat Hentoff, Village Voice June 20, 2002: Doesn't Ashcroft Have Better Things to Do? Marc Fisher, Washington Post June 18, 2002: Women's Rights: Why Not? Nicholas D. Kristof, New York Times June 17, 2002: Ashcroft's Failures Deserve a Hearing, Joe Conason, New York Observer This Modern World, Tom Tomorrow Ashcroft's High Profile, Motives Raise White House Concerns, Dan Eggen, Washington Post June 16, 2002: Ashcroft Under Attack, Ann McFeatters, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette June 12, 2002: John Ashcroft: Minister of Fear, ##### Meyer, CBSNews.com June 11, 2002: Threat of 'dirty bomb' softened, Kevin Johnson and Toni Locy, USA TODAY June 2, 2002: Ashcroft's iron will molds the law, Fredric N. Tulsky, Mercury News
__________________________________ Poor Ashcroft, my butt. 
*Edited to fix link
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:00 AM (EST)
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4. "Summer study classes" |
Most universities conduct summer sessions directed at foreign students who want to explore coming to the U.S. and say that they attended a U.S. university. These sessions have long been criticized as squandering the universities' prestige for no academic purpose, just money. It looks like Cal Berkeley is denying admission to these summer sessions. Since most people wouldn't care if these summer sessions were ended completely, I doubt we'll see too much outrage.Yes, this is blatant discrimination by country of origin, which makes it pernicious, even for a good cause. But, as with the Saudi "free-pass" visa program ended by the Justice Department, it's easy to see the compelling government interest at work here. SARS appears to be a super-strong flu virus. Considering that the "Spanish Flu" epidemic of 1918-19 killed between 20 MILLION AND 40 MILLION PEOPLE worldwide, and that experts have been warning that increased global travel would one day give us another equivalent virus, concern over SARS seems reasonable. According to this site at Stanford, the Spanish Flu killed 675,000 Americans. The mortality rate of the Spanish Flu was 2.5%. (And I believe the U.S. had slightly over 100 million people at the time, as opposed to 270 million today.) The mortality rate of SARS (right now) is between 5% and 10%. I'll let you all do the math.
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:26 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Summer study classes" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 11:27 AM (EST)The mortality rate of SARS (right now) is between 5% and 10%. The mortality rate for SARS in the U.S. is ZERO ... not a single person has died in the United States. 
Man, talk about overreaction.
Edited because this constant switching between square brackets and chicken lips is more than I can cope with.
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:45 AM (EST)
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8. "Proof that containment works" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 11:53 AM (EST)The mortality rate for SARS in the U.S. is ZERO ... not a single person has died in the United States. And ... how many SARS cases have there been in the U.S. so far? Yeah, there have been lots of panics over suspected cases, but I think the number of confirmed cases is 61, right? Which means that, statisitcally, there aren't likely to be many deaths. Here's an article from the Baltimore Sun about the so-far-successful efforts to stop the spread of SARS: Aggressive efforts to control SARS working, experts say Yeah, there's a certain degree of overreaction in the SARS "panics" in the U.S. The advantage here, though, is that the longer we can delay an outbreak, the better weapons we'll have to deal with it when it does spread -- and, ultimately, it will. Right now, simply developing a good diagnostic test would eliminate the panics. Edited to add that 61 is the number of "probable" cases, per the WHO. This chart provides the information. Note this statistic: Number of probable cases: 6583
Number of deaths: 461
Number recovered: 2764 So ... of 3225 known outcomes, 461 were deaths. That's a mortality rate above 10% worldwide, although, in the U.S., there have been 26 recoveries and no deaths, the best percentage in the world. Is that because the U.S. cases have received higher-quality care? Earlier intervention? A less-severe strain of the virus? I don't know. ... and there are still a number of patients whose outcomes are unknown.
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:02 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Proof that containment works" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 12:02 PM (EST)And the number once you subtract all those cases in China that they tried to cover up instead of treating becomes much much smaller worldwide. If you look at the details of the WHO chart you will see that the overwhelming number of the deaths have occurred in China, Hong Kong, Singapore. Outside of China, most of the Canadian cases have been among health care workers. (A lot of folks think that WHO very much overreacted when sanctioning Toronto.) Also look at this WHO page that shows areas of recent transmission. They are virtually all in China. The cases in Toronto are almost all in hospital transmissions. Let's wait a week or two and see how it goes.
"Half of Tech's charm is that sometimes I have no idea what she's talking about" -- True
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diamond 2307 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:58 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Summer study classes" |
>Man, talk about overreaction. Serouisly. I love Tom Tomorrow's take on it (actually, it's his stand-in, Bob Harris, but that doesn't really matter): As a public service, here are a few other things Cipro-hoarding duct-tapers can freak out about, too: Chynna Phillips
Playing Chinese Checkers
Eating things off of china plates in general
Seeing the movie "Chinatown"
David Bowie ("China Girl")
Pekingese dogs
"Kung Fu" reruns
The Wu Tang Clan
Mandarin oranges
Feng Shui
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Meanwhile, you're probably more likely to be done in by John Ashcroft personally coming to your door, hauling you away to Camp X-Ray, and bludgeoning you with a rolled-up copy of Patriot II, while Antonin Scalia cackles madly in the middle distance. 
As a preemptive strike, to quote Tech: It's funny. Laugh.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:53 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Summer study classes" |
It's not a double standard when the two are totally different. I honestly don't understand how you can compare them as equal. Is UC-B's policy discriminatory? Yes. But it's not infringing upon the rights of US citizens; it's simply withdrawing a potential privilege from non-US citizens. That's where the difference is. As Fester says, apples and oranges.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:12 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Summer study classes" |
I understand you don't see the difference, so there's no point in continuing to argue about it.
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Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:00 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Summer study classes" |
Dawg, your argument just doesn't hold water.From the article: Berdahl said Berkeley decided on a ban because students coming from SARS-affected areas would have to be monitored for 10 days and if any developed SARS-related symptoms, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news - web sites) would require elaborate precautions, including "isolation and other labor-intensive measures that we are not able to provide currently." Apparently, the university simple can't handle the precautions required, mandated by the CDC to maintain a safe environment this summer. This has nothing to do with a prospective student's country of origin. It has to do with a world-wide health risk. And re Ashcroft: you said: I only wondered if those who repeatedly and viciously attack Ashcroft for doing his job, enforcing the law (even if it's bad, it's not Ashcroft's job to determine that, but the Courts') and making efforts to stop another terrorist attack, would step up to the plate and likewise condemn Cal-Berkeley for its actions. I'm not seeing it so far. The typical double standard at work. First of all, someone should tell Ashcroft his job is enforcing, not creating law or taking substantial liberties with existing law. World of difference between a private university choosing to temporarily exclude certain non-citizens (who aren't even in our country now) from its summer program (and inflicting no wound on the Constitution) versus the unprecented infringment on U.S. citizens' constitutional rights and civil liberties, when most of these infringments have little or nothing to do with defeating or curbing terrorism.
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:12 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Summer study classes" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 12:13 PM (EST)>I only wondered if those who repeatedly and viciously attack Ashcroft for doing his job, enforcing the law (even if it's bad, it's not Ashcroft's job to determine that, but the Courts') Except, for all practical purposes, it's his law. If it's a bad law, it's because of Ashcroft, not in spite of him. Here's an interesting article http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1999-2002Oct22¬Found=true And if you want to talk double standard, how much would the right have howled if Clinton or Gore had been the one's proposing PATRIOT? I find it incredibly ironic that one of the single most intrusive laws ever passed by Congress was propagated by a so-called conservative administration. This type of government activism used to be anathema to conservatives... 
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:19 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: Summer study classes" |
PATRIOT was passed by Congress, not John Ashcroft. Even if he wrote the text himself, it wasn't him who made it a law. Blame the Republicans and Democrats of the Congress for making it a law.Furthermore, PATRIOT was passed in the aftermath of 9/11 and would have passed in that shocking aftermath no matter WHO had brought it up, whether it had been Clinton, Gore, Dubya, Ashcroft, Karl Marx, Jerry Falwell, AyaK, TechNoir or SurvivinDawg. And in this wartime environment, for the most part we still need (most of) the extraordinary measures of PATRIOT to prevent another such attack (as has been done a few times since 9/11).
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:25 PM (EST)
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25. "RE: Summer study classes" |
Again, that presupposes that 9-11 happened because we didn't have any intelligence. In point of fact, it seems that we had the intelligence, we just didn't know what to do with it. And, considering how W is doing everything in his power to stall the 9-11 Commission, and to prevent the Senate report from being made public, one has to start to wonder what exactly the White House is trying to hide. I need to add a disclaimer - I don't think that we knew exact attack details and chose not to act on them, nor do I think we planned the event. I do think, however, that a thorough review of the evidence would show that we SHOULD have known about the upcoming attacks. That alone would be politically damaging enough to an administration that can only run for election based on foreign policy and national security issues that it would warrant the type of coverup that is going on.
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:40 AM (EST)
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7. "Huh?" |
This is such an apples/oranges comparison, it would take all day to list the differences. A couple of key ones, though...Universities v. DOJ: One is an institution of higher learning which discriminates all the time in its admission policies. One does not have a right to attend Cal-Berkeley. The other is an arm of the government whose function is to uphold the Constitution and federal laws. Ashcroft, as its head, has (as Spidey so well illustrated) taken it upon himself to do as he pleases under the guise of "national security". We all DO have rights under the Constitution that Ashcroft continues to ignore. Documented epidemic v. spectre of terrorism: SARS is a medically documented virus. Quarantining of populations is a common method of limiting the spread of such things. The spectre of terrorism, however, has caused Ashcroft to write his own manual as to how to deal with non-citizens, including stripping away established rights and privileges. Whether Berkeley is being overly cautious is up for debate, but they aren't imprisoning their students, cutting them off from family and legal counsel, as is Secretary Ashcroft. Besides, when SARS is under control, these students may re-apply if they so desire. In short, I don't know enough about SARS to have an educated opinion as to whether Berkeley is overreacting. They may very well be. But it isn't anything the same as Ashcroft's disdain for civil liberties.  Fester
Language is a virus...
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:02 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Huh?" |
Ashcroft, as its head, has (as Spidey so well illustrated) taken it upon himself to do as he pleases under the guise of "national security".We all DO have rights under the Constitution that Ashcroft continues to ignore. But it isn't anything the same as Ashcroft's disdain for civil liberties. First, I don't think it's apples-and-oranges, but that aside for now. John Ashcroft has been repeatedly, viciously and unfairly attacked since before he was even confirmed as Attorney General. John Ashcroft (and his FBI) was pilloried almost to the point of lynching in the Media because the FBI didn't prevent the 9/11 attacks. Congress, not John Ashcroft, passed the PATRIOT Act. I for one agreed that this law is flawed and possibly infringes upon the rights of American citizens. It certainly could be used to do so by a corrupt administration. The Clintons didn't even need the PATRIOT act to (illegally) obtain 400 FBI files of Republican officeholders. Can anyone show me an instance where it can be proved that Ashcroft has obtained information on anyone for a corrupt purpose? It is up to the Courts, not John Ashcroft, to determine if a law is a violation of the Constitution. Until that time, Mr. Ashcroft is legally bound to uphold and enforce that law. Furthermore, Mr. Ashcroft's FBI (not him personally, but his FBI) is obligated to prevent more terrorist attacks against us, and PATRIOT was passed to assist in that effort. John Ashcroft has not, and of course cannot "do as he pleases" under PATRIOT or anything else. He has not "ignored" the rights of citizens (if he had, you'd really be seeing some things!). And I will argue as to just how much "rights" non-citizens do have when they are PERMITTED to be in this country, particularly in this current WAR-time environment. So far, PATRIOT has not been struck down by the Courts. Well, which way is it going to be? Whine that the FBI didn't stop 9/11, then whine when they try to stop the next attack? Attack Ashcroft (unfairly IMHO) for upholding the law, while ignoring Cal-Berkeley's discrimination (and they're state-supported institution, so again, this is not apples and oranges)? THAT is my question. One can't have it both ways, and to attempt to do so is the double standard. Documented epidemic v. spectre of terrorism: The terrorism of 9/11 was amply documented, certainly moreso than the documentation on this epidemic which, as TechNoir pointed out, has so far killed ZERO citizens in the United States.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:57 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: Huh?" |
No, she's just asking why you'd bring it up when you know exactly what kind of response it's going to get, and then complaining when it receives exactly that.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:14 PM (EST)
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38. "RE: Huh?" |
If by "repeated attacks" you're referring to the thread which discussed the Supreme Court's decision on that affected Immigration law (which is the only recent thread I can think of that even tangentially related to Mr. Ashcroft), that was also a thread that you started.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 01:29 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Huh?" |
She displays a general garment, and you claim it's cut to your fit? How fascinating.
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 01:46 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Huh?" |
I would have used the word "convenient" instead of "fascinating", but you're nicer than I am.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:25 PM (EST)
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42. "RE: Comment" |
No more so than in "compassionate conservative."
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:48 PM (EST)
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54. "Humor..." |
...is inherent in a thread that ends up like this one, isn't it?
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:31 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Comment" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 02:35 PM (EST)yeppers, ain't no such thang ... we're just a bunch of dummies who don't know enough to get upset when the prez has a good time near the oval office good thing we ain't smart enuf to figure out the current prez went awol or did coke or we might use it against him
I so love being underestimated
Edited because I really wanted to mention that I was just taking lessons from my Commander in Chief
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J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:35 PM (EST)
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47. "RE: Comment" |
yeppers, ain't no such thang ... we're just a bunch of dummies who don't know enough to get upset when the prez has a good time near the oval office good thing we ain't smart enuf to figure out the current prez went awol or did coke or we might use it against him (((Tech))) You amuse me endlessly, Tech  ::runs off to go be stupid with the other liberals:: 
JV's favorite.
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:07 PM (EST)
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37. "RE: Huh?" |
And I think Mr. Ashcroft deserves a great deal more abuse than he has received on these boards. The Bill of Right Defense Committee agrees, and has produced a sign on letting calling for his removal.A few reasons: Mr. Ashcroft is a major proponent of this administration's penchant for secrecy inappropriate in a free society. Example: He issued FOIA guidance that many sources have argued effectively negated the act passed by Congress. He, in effect, told agencies that the DOJ would support their withholding of records in total contradiction to the letter and spirit of the law that he is supposed to uphold. His civil rights record, since the beginning of his reported history, is abysmal. This was a major issue before his confirmation. He has used his predeliction to selectively enforce laws as he sees fit. Example: He is the subject of a class action suit on behalf of Middle Eastern men unlawfully detained after the September 11 events. Folks defend Mr. Ashcroft's behavior as being in support of the Patriot Act when the truth is that he has been behaving in this way for all of his political life. He has no respect for state law if it doesn't agree with his personal views. Example: Oregon voters approved doctor assisted suicide but Mr. Ashcroft decided that any doctors who tried would be federally prosecuted. States right, when convenient. You know I could go on with this all day with issues like his support of the death penalty even when applied to children, his infusion of the Department of Justice with his particular religious practice, the differential impact of his personal abortion views on law enforcement, etc., etc. The man is ignorant, extremist, and, to paraphrase Mr. Bush The Younger, a divider not a uniter. As I said earlier, he begs for ridicule. And if you want to talk about a double standard you need only look to Mr. Ashcroft's tenure at the Department of Justice for a definition of the term.
"Half of Tech's charm is that sometimes I have no idea what she's talking about" -- True
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:21 PM (EST)
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39. "RE: Huh?" |
I do urge people to actually click the links in the post above and get the full story.For example, the DOJ lost the appeal in the Oregon law. It was decided in the Court (where it should be) ... now has Ashcroft prosecuted a doctor since losing the appeal? You'll have to show me, IF he has. But that doesn't mean he was wrong to challenge the law in the first place. Also, the class action suit on behalf of the middle eastern men, has that been resolved? If so, which way? Other similar cases have been upheld (i.e. Ashcroft won) by the Supreme Court. The FOIA memo estabishes guidelines, but doesn't violate the law. If indeed "many sources have argued effectively negated the act passed by Congress" is the case, then that should be decided by the Courts. I personally see no violation of the law in it. And the link about "told agencies that the DOJ would support their withholding of records" is simply opinion, just like many of the posts on this board. Just because his administration of the Department of Justice isn't liberal enough for his detractors doesn't make him "ignorant", nor does it cause him to "beg for ridicule". At least he upholds the law, unlike the previous Attorney General and her President's many willful violations of absolute written statute law AND Court rulings. I'll take Ashcroft over Janet Reno ANY day, and thank God that Ashcroft and not Reno is Attorney General in this time of war and crisis for the Nation.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 02:58 PM (EST)
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57. "Prosecutorial discretion" |
>For example, the DOJ lost the appeal in the Oregon law.
> It was decided in the Court (where it should
>be) ... now has Ashcroft prosecuted a doctor since losing
>the appeal? You'll have to show me, IF he has. But that doesn't
>mean he was wrong to challenge the law in the first place. At the time, I argued (and I still believe) that DOJ was wrong to challenge the law in the first place. Court cases have real costs in time and uncertainty. In my opinion, Ashcroft should have used prosecutorial discretion instead of trying to EXPAND the powers of the federal government. When DOJ devotes resources to a case like this, it has to either leave something else undone or seek to hire more staff. Ashcroft has been a federal officer for too long, because he has forgotten about the costs of trying to make social policy in the courts. Even local school boards learn about the costs of pointless litigation, as this story about a religious-oriented Harry Potter restriction in a school library illustrates. Why spend the money to fight local democratic initiatives?
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 04:35 PM (EST)
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79. "RE: Prosecutorial discretion" |
First, I'm on Oregon's side in this particular case.I understand what you're saying about the DOJ being wrong to challenge the law. And if and when we get Attorney General AyaK (about the time we have President SurvivinDawg  ), I'm sure your discretion will be the better part of valor. However, to me, the money isn't the issue, and almost never is in legal cases (what price justice?, etc.). If Ashcroft thought the state initiative was a violation of Federal law, and had some basis in Law to support that, then I don't object to his bringing it to Court, even if I don't agree with his side of the case. What I *would* object to is if he tried to prosecute a doctor AFTER the Court rules. As long as he goes with the Court's decision, then hey! he had his day in court, etc.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 07:25 PM (EST)
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89. "Envy" |
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 07:28 PM (EST)
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90. "RE: Envy" |
as I suspected, but I don't get making it so obvious . . .
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 08:08 AM (EST)
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164. "RE: Very problematic" |
So...did you believe Anita Hill, too?
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 08:11 AM (EST)
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165. "RE: Very problematic" |
Anita Hill's testimony was PROVED, I say again PROVED to be false, and she should have been brought up on perjury charges. So no, I don't believe her.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 07:24 PM (EST)
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88. "Here's another cheap shot" |
>Take the personal cheap shots at the man while you can... OK, can I take one? "John Ashcroft was so unresponsive to the voters as a Senator that the people of Missouri decided they needed someone more likely to follow their wishes ... ... so they elected a dead man." ************
I can just imagine the lead on his obituary: "John Ashcroft, the only U.S. Senator ever defeated for re-election by a corpse, died today at ..."
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 09:17 PM (EST)
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108. "RE: Here's another cheap shot" |
Yeah, but how about Karl Rove?
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FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 12:14 PM (EST)
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21. "Loggerheads" |
Not today, I won't. Continue to ignore the obvious if you like.double standard To quote Inego Montoya: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." That's all I have to say about that. Fester <-- all this talk of apples and oranges has made him hungry...but not for bait.
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buckeyegirl 5449 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:57 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
As someone who is going into the international education, I have a lot of problems with this statement:
then these same people start screaming when foreign students come under scrutiny, never mind that the Sept. 11th terrorists came in under student visas. Poor guy just can't win.I don't have a problem that the foreign students are coming under scrutiny, it's just the way the they did it. Yes, the system desperately needed to be changed, but could have been done a little more user-friendly-yes! I have a raging headache, so I'm articulting this argument poorly. I wrote a whole 10 page paper on the problems universities are having implementing SEVIS. This guy said it alot better then I can: (Feel free to flame away!) http://www.acenet.edu/washington/letters/2002/06june/ins.sevis.cfm
Letter to the INS Regarding SEVIS June 14, 2002 Director
Regulations and Forms Services Division
Immigration and Naturalization Service
425 I Street, NW, Room 4034
Washington, DC 20536
RE: Comments on Proposed Rule: "Retention and Reporting of Information for F, J, And M Nonimmigrants: Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS)" INS No. 2185-02 (RIN 115-AG55). Dear Sir or Madam: On behalf of the higher education associations listed below, I am writing to offer comments on the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) Proposed Rule No. 2185-02, published in the Federal Register on May 16, 2002. The higher education community is fully committed to assisting the INS and other federal agencies in efforts to improve the monitoring and tracking of international students on our campuses. We take seriously our responsibility to improve national security and we believe that SEVIS represents the single most important step the federal government can take to improve the retention and reporting of information on international students and exchange visitors. We support the prompt implementation of this system and pledge to work cooperatively with the INS in these efforts. Our goal is to make the system effective and efficient, and the comments below are directed to that end. We commend the Department of Justice, and the INS in particular, for their efforts to implement SEVIS under the demanding timetable mandated by the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001. We especially appreciate INS's efforts to share information with the higher education community and to create a system that will meet Congress's intent. To this end, this letter addresses four issues on which comments were specifically invited: 1) the feasibility of a January 30, 2003 compulsory deadline for schools to begin reporting under SEVIS; 2) the costs to campuses of bringing equipment and systems into compliance with SEVIS; 3) the correlation of designated school officials (DSOs) to the size of an institution's F-1 population; and 4) the training and certification of DSOs. The proposed compliance deadline of January 30, 2003 is unlikely to prove workable, a view shared by the Department of Justice's Office of the Inspector General (OIG). We believe a compliance deadline should be set 180 days after the Inspector General certifies that SEVIS is fully operational and software is available for purchase.
Reference: Proposed Rule 214.2(f)(1)(iii); 214.2(m)(1)(iii). Issue: The proposed rule sets January 30, 2003, as the mandatory compliance date for the electronic retention and reporting of information regarding F, J, and M nonimmigrants. We strongly support INS's desire to implement SEVIS as quickly and efficiently as possible. However, the Office of the Inspector General at the Department of Justice recently stated that it "questions whether INS will be able" to fully implement SEVIS by the January 30, 2003 deadline. (OIG Report, May 20, 2002, p. 15.) The report cites school recertification, basic training of campus and government officials, and delays in implementation of batch processing capability as reasons INS is "not likely" to meet the January 30, 2003 target. (See id. at 157-8, 164-5.) We believe that three interrelated steps must be accomplished before SEVIS can be considered operational and institutions can be reasonably expected to meet a compliance deadline. First, the specifications and the interface for batch processing must be finalized. The batch mode will be critical to the ability of schools with large international populations to comply with SEVIS. Over 80% of foreign students (more than 444,000) are enrolled in 449 institutions of higher education with international student enrollments of over 250 individuals. Entering individual student data is an unworkable proposition for these institutions. Schools with smaller international enrollments also view batch processing as the best way to ensure the accuracy of data submissions. At present, batch processing is not expected to be operational before fall 2002. Only when it is fully functioning can potential vendors be expected to finalize and make available software for purchase by institutions. Only after purchasing software or modifying existing information systems can institutions begin to convert and load data sets in batch mode — a process we estimate will take individual institutions between 3 to 9 months to complete after software acquisition. Second, the operating software for SEVIS must be made available for purchase, installation, and testing by all institutions in advance of the compliance deadline, including the technical assistance and training in the use of the software that vendors will provide. Once SEVIS is totally operational, vendors will develop or refine software and make it available for purchase and installation to an estimated 3,500 colleges and universities (and an unknown number of other certified schools and programs). As the Inspector General's Report notes, INS must also have resources in place to offer assistance and training — before and after SEVIS goes live — for those DSOs, information technology specialists, and others who may require assistance to report and maintain information in the database. (See OIG Report at 181.) Third, adequate technical training and infrastructure at INS is necessary to ensure that the SEVIS web site is fully interactive for campuses before SEVIS can be said to have gone "live." Interactivity does not mean the creation of a web site that an individual user can reach. Rather, to be "fully operational" the system must be thoroughly tested and shown to be capable of batch interfacing by all certified institutions. Adequate technical assistance must be available to ensure timely access for campuses across the country. Recommendation: In lieu of picking a January 30, 2003 deadline at this point, we recommend that a compliance date be set at 180 days after the Inspector General certifies that, based on benchmarks similar to those outlined above, SEVIS is fully operational. Colleges and universities will work to meet the deadline INS ultimately sets for compliance. It is impossible, however, to make an estimate as to how long it will take institutions to comply with a system that does not yet exist. Certification by the Inspector General should follow expeditiously once that office ascertains that the steps outlined above have been completed.1 Costs associated with SEVIS compliance will vary significantly for campuses. A chief concern that institutions share is to avoid implementing SEVIS twice.
Reference: N/A Issue: INS asks what monetary impact will result from SEVIS implementation. The short answer is that the impact will be substantial, will vary from institution to institution, and will be paid from institutional funds. Colleges and universities recognize their significant role in ensuring the effectiveness of the SEVIS database. All are prepared to pay the costs of purchasing and implementing software systems or modifying existing information technology systems of their own. Institutions with large nonimmigrant student populations that opt to develop in-house systems, such as Johns Hopkins University, have estimated their initial costs at up to $500,000 (based on 4000-5000 hours of expected IT effort). These figures do not include future training, software licenses, staffing, and other attendant maintenance costs. Costs for institutions that purchase systems will vary substantially as well ‚ estimates ranging from $15,000 to $25,000 for start-up software, plus significant yearly maintenance, IT staffing, and server costs. Our chief concern is that institutions avoid implementing (and therefore paying for) SEVIS twice. This requires that a fully operational system be in place before institutions design their interfaces, or purchase and install software from vendors. "Fully operational" means a system that has been thoroughly tested and demonstrated to be capable of batch processing by campuses across the country. (See supra.) Recommendation: Because anticipated costs of implementation and compliance are substantial and will vary considerably based on the size of each institution's nonimmigrant student and visitor populations, we strongly endorse certification by the Inspector General that SEVIS is fully operational before a compliance deadline for SEVIS interface is established. If SEVIS implementation is hastened without adequate assurance that INS has a fully functioning system in place, the costs to institutions will increase substantially. International student enrollments vary significantly among institutions. Campuses should have flexibility in determining the number of designated school officials (DSOs) needed to handle such students.
Reference: 8 C.F.R. 214.3; Proposed Rule 214.3(l) Issue: The proposal to continue a five-person limit on the number of DSOs that can be employed by an institution — regardless of whether the institution is an elementary school, a high school, a small college, or a multi-campus research university — and to add an additional category of "Administrative School Officials" (ASOs) will not alleviate the administrative burdens institutions will face in implementing and maintaining the SEVIS database. The suggested new category of administrative school officials (ASOs) is unlikely to provide adequate support for large institutions during "crunch" periods (e.g., the beginning and end of a school term) when large sets of data must be updated and closely reviewed by DSOs. Moreover, we believe that creating a new regulatory category that must continually be distinguished from DSOs will be a complex and low-benefit effort. Recommendation: The rule should be changed to prescribe no fixed number of DSOs. As long as institutions comply with the extensive guidelines that surround the retention and reporting of information on F, J, and M visa holders, any determination as to the number of DSOs required by a particular school should be left to the school itself. Under the Enhanced Border Security Act of 2002, institutions will be subject to frequent and extensive review by the INS to determine the timeliness and quality of data entered into the system. (See Sec. 501 and 502.) An institution's failure to maintain the SEVIS database will result in loss of authority to issue I-20s or admit international students. (See Sec. 502.) Since schools will have every incentive to employ only competent and qualified DSOs, it should be left to their discretion to hire adequate numbers to serve their needs. We do not endorse the creation of a new ASO category, which will add unnecessary complexity to the rule and will not assist efforts to operationalize and maintain the system. Voluntary training programs are presently available for campus DSOs. INS should not mandate or seek to implement a certification program for DSOs at the present time.
Reference: N/A Issue: Adequate training will be essential to assist DSOs in using the new SEVIS database. As noted above, institutions will have strong incentives to ensure that DSOs are adequately trained and perform their functions properly. Already, there are voluntary programs that provide DSOs with up-to-date training and information. In particular, NAFSA: Association of International Educators has made training available to its 8,000 members, which include DSOs at most institutions of higher education in the United States. So far as we know, no one has called into question the quality of training available or the competence of those presently offering the training. We hesitate to recommend that INS adopt additional training or certification requirements at this time. Nonetheless, we endorse the Inspector General's report language that "he INS should develop a timetable for implementing training and an implementation plan for carrying out the training." (OIG Report at 181.) Voluntary training opportunities for DSOs should be made available well in advance of the mandatory compliance deadline. We strongly encourage INS to devote adequate resources to offer and sustain such programs.Recommendation: Rather than asking INS to design and implement yet another mandatory program, we suggest that schools should continue to obtain training through voluntary programs. Nor should INS seek to establish a mandatory certification process at this time. If either of these issues needs to be revisited, it can be done at a later time. We thank you for the opportunity to comment on these proposals. The higher education community remains committed to bringing SEVIS into operation as expeditiously as possible. We urge the Department of Justice to revise the Proposed Rule in light of these comments. Please contact me if we can be of further service.
Sincerely,
David Ward
President, American Council on Education
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 If the INS prefers to specify a date for implementation, we recommend that the agency consider the Master Calendar provision of the Higher Education Act, whereby colleges and universities by statute are given an eight-month period between issuance of specifications by the Department of Education and the date by which institutions are expected to bring systems into compliance. (See 20 U.S.C. 1089.) If, as promised by INS, final batch processing specifications and software are available by October 1, 2002, the higher education community would suggest a June 1, 2003 deadline for implementation. Should this second course be adopted, INS's effort to make SEVIS go live at 70,000 schools (as opposed to the 7,000 that are affected by the Higher Education Act) over an eight-month period will be more difficult.
A Kyngsladye Original
"I believe the most important single thing, beyond discipline and creativity,
is daring to dare" Maya Angelou
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 04:22 PM (EST)
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76. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
Looks more like a kindergarten playground with too few swings to me.Oh darnnit, I was late, and all the swings on the left are taken. At least we have plenty of apples and oranges for snack time. 
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 04:26 PM (EST)
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77. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
apples and oranges. Pshaw. Oreos !!!
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 07:58 PM (EST)
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92. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
And I'm sure they're all moved by your taking offense for them.
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:40 AM (EST)
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174. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
Well, I must hang with a different crowd of Texans, because I don't know anyone who smokes rope (I don't even know what that means), has a mullet, is "abysmally stupid", or has any more 'chemical or psychological "issues."' than anyone from any of the other 49 states.Maybe you need to hang out with a higher class of people, JV.   
(c) 2003 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.
Royal Liaison to Illicit Activities, SB Video Historian (StS)
- Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, and communism, war never solved anything.
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:13 PM (EST)
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94. "To disagree with the NYT..." |
LAST EDITED ON 05-06-03 AT 08:35 PM (EST)...since Rehnquist became CJ, this Court has often granted summary orders where the facts are clear, as they are here. Quoting from the slip opinion (deleting references, and the comments inside {{}} are mine): "Detectives immediately tried but failed to obtain a warrant to question Kaupp. {{In a footnote, the court explains that the detectives didn't think they had probable cause to arrest Kaupp, so that asked for a special warrant which didn't require probable cause, but the DA's office denied it.}} Detective Gregory Pinkins nevertheless decided (in his words) to "get <Kaupp> in and confront him with what <the brother> had said." In the company of two other plain clothes detectives and three uniformed officers, Pinkins went to Kaupp's house at approximately 3 a.m. on January 27th. After Kaupp's father let them in, Pinkins, with at least two other officers, went to Kaupp's bedroom, awakened him with a flashlight, identified himself, and said, "We need to go and talk." {{The officers appear to have been armed and had their guns drawn at this point, although that is disputed in the record by one of the officers.}} Kaupp said, "Okay." The two officers then handcuffed Kaupp and led him, shoeless and dressed only in boxer shorts and a T-shirt, out of his house and into a patrol car. The state points to nothing in the record indicating Kaupp was told that he was free to decline to go with the officers." He was then taken to a police station interview room. The Texas appeals court held that Kaupp consented to talk to the officers when he said "OK" after he was rousted out of bed; it said that the subsequent handcuffing and INVOLUNTARY removal to the police station didn't change the consentual nature of the interview. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals refused to even hear the case ... which is how it ended up in the Supreme Court. Now, had the officers gotten an arrest warrant, they would have been free to roust the suspect in the middle of the night, handcuff him, and take him to the police station for questioning. The question before the Supreme Court is whether Kaupp's use of the word "OK" made this distiguishable from a conventional arrest. The Texas courts felt that it did. Do you? ************************** It's not as easy of a case as it sounds from my description (which may reveal my own bias in the matter). There is a substantial body of law that permits police to move you to the police station without changing the interview into a custodial one. There is a substantial body of law regarding consent and what is required to "break" consent. The problem here is that the Texas court looked at one factor at a time instead of looking at the whole picture. I always like to refer to some cases as "bad facts" cases, and this is one. The Texas police had two HUGE bad facts: they had been turned doen in their request for a "pocket warrant" to pick Kaupp up for questioning, and they had decided that they didn't have probable cause for an arrest warrant. Nevertheless, they did something that seems almost identical to an arrest. If the Supreme Court did NOT reverse, then why would police ever worry about getting an arrest warrant? The real question here is why the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals didn't even hear the case. One possible implication is that Texas police do so many crazy things that this one seemed minor by comparison. I hope that's not the real reason, of course.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:36 PM (EST)
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97. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
Yeah, they grow 'em so smart in Texas that even the Supreme Court tells 'em they're dumb.Wow, now we're going to call Texans "dumb" because the Supreme Court rightly found a legal case to be in error and in need of overturning. Geez, in what state has this NOT happened? And they do seem to get most of the cases right, way too many to enumerate here. Of course, the level of pure hatred by some liberals for Dubya is such that some people will look for ANY straw to grasp to attack him (and his state), and even (in England) declare shame at being from that state. GOD.BLESS.TEXAS! Right, Nailbone?
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:50 PM (EST)
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102. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
Hard to have respect for a Commander in Chief who went awol.You're making this easy, TN! Just as it is impossible to have respect for the previous commander in chief, who was a draft dodger, put "I loathe the military" in writing, and (coincidentally, I'm sure) liked to fire cruise missles at aspirin factories in Sudan the day Monica Lewinski was giving testimony to the Starr Grand Jury. Glad to see Monica has moved on to better things, like "Mr. Personality". Wag the dog! Wag the dog! Oops, shouldn't bring up "dogs" like that... personal attack on myself!
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 08:10 PM (EST)
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217. "Love it!" |
Great story, Tech. So, does that mean that your family never voted in a presidential election until 1964?
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snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:29 PM (EST)
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96. "RE: OH MY GAWD...." |
You said it Boner...these people are nutZZ.
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TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:47 PM (EST)
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100. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
my first 100
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 08:52 PM (EST)
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103. "Loss of virginity" |
Congrats on your first #100, TN!
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Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 10:23 PM (EST)
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111. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
As you are queen of all DAWs, I find it hard to believe you have never gotten 100. I, myself, genteel and kind of heart, have reached the 100 post on 3 such occasions. But what I am really here to say is, where the frick are the orange tic tacs? And if you don't mind, I could use some cheetos over here...crunchy of course. Thank you .
Just when you least expect it...ICECAT.
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:53 PM (EST)
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115. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
The Orange TicTacs are in my Car (seriously)The Texans are nuts ( sorry Nail) And how many times can Sapphire Lady flame in her posts then delete the content? Just asking
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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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05-06-03, 11:58 PM (EST)
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116. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
>The Orange TicTacs are in
>my Car (seriously) Orange tictacs rule. >The Texans are nuts ( sorry
>Nail) speaking as a native Coloradan, exposed to Texans regularly, I agree. >And how many times can Sapphire
>Lady flame in her posts
>then delete the content? She learned from the best.
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 00:21 AM (EST)
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117. "**waves to the Bug**" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-07-03 AT 00:26 AM (EST)Long time no chat, chicky!!!Never had an orange Tic Tac...still holding out for Supes. Texans....loony,but so much fun. What you can't see doesn't count, I suppose.  Miscellaneous Ramblings
--can't see her own butt, so it must not be there either
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 00:36 AM (EST)
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122. "RE: **waves to the Bug**" |
True
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 01:00 AM (EST)
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141. "RE: Huh?" |
Ahhhhh, the Force is strong in you Kim Possible ( have a Tic Tac)
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 01:14 AM (EST)
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155. "RE: Huh?" |
Oh puleeze. Like who could hate me? Besides you have had the Hots for me, for like years. ( 2 1/2 years)
I have to go to bed
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SaphireLady 2491 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 01:02 AM (EST)
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145. "RE: Huh?" |
I am not sure how to put that into better words. I don't want to play meanly. I want to play nice. My fingers, just like my mouth, like to get me into lots of trouble. So, I thought better of the comment. Though this comment was not an offensive nature that some thought, it was still somewhere I did not want to go, or another can of worms I really did not want to open up. While I have no problem standing by what I orignally posted, I felt then and still feel now that it is not a place that OT really needs to continue to go, and that is toward the dark side of the pond, or the bottomefeeder type thing. Okay. Was trying to keep from being mean and nasty, or rather my definition of those words. I have learned that several people on here have a broader more linear view of those two words. That is okay too, I just need to, for me, to stick by my vision of what those words mean and how to act upon them. Have a good evening and I am going back to my attempt at being nice and less trigger happy.
"Now I will believe that there are unicorns..." William Shakespeare; "The Tempest"
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desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 00:52 AM (EST)
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135. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
{laughter}
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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 01:03 AM (EST)
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148. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
I tawt I taw a dangerkat. I did! I did!**waves to DK** There is plenty of laughter for all around here. We are a veritable fount of humor these days. Just look around. Miscellaneous Ramblings
--when you invoke Tweety, it is really time for sleep, isn't it?
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nailbone 27263 desperate attention whore postings
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05-07-03, 09:48 AM (EST)
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182. "RE: Ding Ding!" |
>
>The Orange TicTacs are in
>my Car (seriously)
>
I just ran out!!
>The Texans are nuts ( sorry
>Nail)
>
Nuts, yeah, but not dumb!
>And how many times can Sapphire
>Lady flame in her posts
>then delete the content?
>
>Just asking
>
Would you rather she flame and leave it? After all, she's responding to a flame in the first place.
(c) 2003 IceCat Originals, Inc. All rights reserved.
Royal Liaison to Illicit Activities, SB Video Historian (StS)
- Except for ending slavery, fascism, Nazism, and communism, war never solved anything.
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 00:55 AM (EST)
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138. "These Orange TicTacs are really yummy" |
I had to walk all the way out to my car for them, but it was worth it.
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 01:10 AM (EST)
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153. "RE: These Orange TicTacs are really yummy" |
You know why orange Tic Tacs are so yummy? Because they taste just like baby asprin used to.Dang, out of Tic Tacs
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 07:36 PM (EST)
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214. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
Shouldn't that be Freedom Toast? Or can we say French Toast again?Humor aside, I want to seriously respond to the deeper message I perceive behind the questions: The French have proved in the last few months that not only did they work as hard as they could to keep the ruthless and barbaric dictator Saddam in power, not only did they give him aid and intelligence information to help him against the United States, not only have they helped his people escape our grasp in the aftermath of the war, and not only have they violated the U.N. sanctions by repeated sales of arms and other things to Iraq, the French have proved that they are no friend nor ally of the United States Of America, and in fact I would suggest that France is an outright enemy of the United States and other freedom- and peace-loving nations. As such, I see no reason why we should just pretend the pre-war situation didn't exist and suddenly become all hearts-and-flowers friends with the French. There is no reason to extend to them any kind of friendship or sanction for their pro-dictator, America-hating ways. They are not our friends, and as far as I am concerned, they should never be considered our friends again. The whole "Freedom Fries" thing was just to make a point. I don't care what you call that particular brand of food. But, like French's mustard, the French are still yellow, and they are still not any friends of ours.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 08:14 PM (EST)
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218. "No bets ..." |
... especially not on sure things!
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-08-03, 11:15 AM (EST)
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232. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-08-03 AT 11:17 AM (EST)And remember, the French were willing to approve a resolution authorizing the use of force after 30 more days of inspections, It was 45 days, if I recall, and it was just proposed. The French never guaranteed to support it, either. In fact, the French had told Colin Powell in meetings that they'd support the use-of-force resolution, but then in public said they wouldn't. It was this backstabbing of Secretary Powell that caused him to become so "hawkish" on the issue. France has long since shown that their desire was to keep Saddam in power. I am surprised that France didn't threaten to come into the war on the side of Saddam... in fact, I have heard that our military actually planned for that contingency! (Whether that was really true, neither I nor y'all will probably ever know, though.) They NEVER would've actually supported us or given their vote to authorize our use of force. Last, France is irrelevant. They don't matter. Why should we care about them? They don't matter. They are nothing. They are worthless. And they are now getting exactly what they deserve, both economically and diplomatically.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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05-08-03, 05:49 PM (EST)
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235. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
I.Heart.Tech
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 09:38 AM (EST)
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173. "My bid" |
75 cents
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 09:41 AM (EST)
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175. "RE: My bid" |
Eat the Biscuit! Eat the Biscuit! Eat the Biscuit!
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snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-07-03, 09:45 AM (EST)
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180. "RE: My bid" |
snoochie...eat the dog biscuit...browndog will never know...it's just flour and chicken fat all compressed into a bone shaped cookie...it's okay...you've eaten worse...just slug it down with a big ole coffee chaser...
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Drive My Car 20045 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 10:11 AM (EST)
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194. "$ 1.05" |
And hurry up already, I gotta go to work.
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Ahtumbreez 10456 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-08-03, 07:52 AM (EST)
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229. "RE: And you complain about Ashcroft?" |
Weasel, I know of no Sherwood Florist, but pretty catchy. But I did name a storage facility Cramalot Inn. I think he still has people calling and trying to make reservations at the Camelot Inn.
(c) 2003 GeorgiaBelle Creations,Inc. All rights reserved
Celebrity Mole PTTE Champion
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 08:20 PM (EST)
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219. "Our first political "monster"" |
First time we've ever had a monster thread start from a political post. My congratulations to everyone who has participated, from debater to jokester.P.S. In a thread yesterday (about Berkeley), we discussed the number of cases of SARS in the U.S. WHO says there are about 70 "probable" cases. It just happens that one of my best friends is a Harvard public health professor who was born and raised in China and has been working on this. And, according to her, the number of confirmed (not probable) cases of SARS in the U.S., as of yesterday, was ... SEVEN. Pretty effective interdiction, no? After all, Singapore's entire outbreak has been traced to two infected people.
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samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-07-03, 08:43 PM (EST)
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220. "Not TX, so how about ..." |
Is it still safe to make fun of West Virginia?"According to an Associated Press report, six candidates for city offices in Charleston, W.Va., misspelled their party affiliations in their official filing forms in January. Among the variations were "Democart," "Democrate," "Repbulican" and "Repucican." In fact, one of the city council incumbents had, four years earlier, also declared himself to be a "Democart." " 
Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime. - Hemingway
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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"Nasty? How can you say that? I'm 8 pounds of total lovin'!"
