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"Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"	11-01-04, 09:11 AM (EST)
"Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"
In light of the upcoming merger with a whole new set of dynamics created, plus a few requests and rightfully so to start a new thread........ For reference, link to the first thread! http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/5313.shtml NS, I will start off with a response to your post. Rory's editing is one of the most interesting and strangest edits I have come across. For that matter, Ami's as well. I'm not sure when Rory's story will come to a close but it is certainly headed for a culmination of volcanic proportions. Since I still think there will be a Sarge/Rory meeting at some point, this episode may be too early for that to happen plus the title of the following week - Gender Wars strikes me as being applicable only if the women and men are more "balanced" (there is that word again ) With Twilla, Julie, Ami, Scout, Eliza and Leann AND Chad, Chris, Rory and Lea left; in order for the titles to have any significance (and they always do in some fashion) then there needs to be a reason for a gender war. Chad, Chris, Lea and Rory cannot be "at war" unless they have the means to be which could only really occur if one woman leaves. As of last week, Ami looks to be in a precarious situation. Outside of Leann and Eliza, she has Rory ready to battle and I have a feeling Scout (while not expressing it out loud perhaps) is starting to look at Ami a bit differently. Rory will not waste any time wondering how he can work his magic to get rid of Ami (leading me to believe she may win immunity but I don't really get involved in that part) While our dear Julie is working her magic, she may end up opening her mouth for the first time too many times. Chris, Lea and Chad will no doubt attempt to "pick off the women" Rory will no doubt be happy to oblige (although his first choice may not be available) He KNOWS the makeup of Yasur, who else besides Ami really has any power? And he just doesn't like Eliza. I do contend that Julie received enough time to finish out her story; the 15 minutes that they promised her. Some more interesting observations: Again, finally what I have been waiting for; Chad's threat status being brought up (possibly placed for this story line to begin) Interestingly the person who brought it up got booted off however. Lea's notable absence during the whole entire JK episode confirming his lack of truly being the troop leader. Again, prayer and acknowledgement of the island by Rory - a major theme of this season. We were shown, interestingly only emotional portions of Scout, Rory, Ami during the reward. Eliza and Leann's emotional story was not part of this. Fleshing out "characters" always puts forth to me that those who get "fleshed" out make further headway in the game. My nodding at the reaction to Rory staying and Lisa going. I anticipated there would be quite a reaction and this set the pace for all the talking at Lopevi. Turnabout of Jeff's narrataive of Rory and his great work at the challenge. Remember when Lisa and Rory competed and all the negativity about that challenged was put squarely on Rory and now all the positive put squarely on him. Jeff's comment on Leann: Getting her second wind, but it's not enough. Chad's leg, again, is more of a presence than anyone discussing it. Focused camera shots on his leg every episode. Twilla, though now with the men certainly basking in her new found feminity. She is now at cross purposes, this is interesting in terms of where she will land upon merger. The pecking orders are now being fleshed out more. This certainly is an interesting season in the fact that the men vs. women is still prevalent. Harmony and balance is still front and center. Who is disrupting same. Rory comes to Yasur, balance was achieved but their balance is now being upset. Watch the volcano it appears at very interesting times and right now it has been focal with Rory.
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Table of Contents

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... applejack93 11-01-04 1

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-01-04 3

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... marebear79 11-01-04 4

the next three Oscirus 11-01-04 2

   RE: the next three VerucaSalt 11-01-04 5

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-01-04 6

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-01-04 7

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-01-04 8

           RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-01-04 9

           RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... redbeard103152 11-01-04 10

               RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-01-04 11

                   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... redbeard103152 11-01-04 12

                       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-01-04 13

                           RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... shangrila 11-02-04 14

                               Something interesting applejack93 11-02-04 15

                               RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-02-04 16

                                   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... applejack93 11-02-04 21

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... DRONES 11-02-04 17

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-02-04 19

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-02-04 20

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... kingfish 11-02-04 22

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... DRONES 11-02-04 23

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Draco Malfoy 11-02-04 18

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Bebo 11-05-04 24

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-05-04 25

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... kingfish 11-05-04 30

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... DRONES 11-08-04 38

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-05-04 26

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... KObrien_fan 11-05-04 27

           RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-05-04 29

               RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... PepeLePew13 11-08-04 37

                   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Brownroach 11-08-04 41

                       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... emydi 11-08-04 45

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Jerrethan 11-05-04 28

   RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... VerucaSalt 11-05-04 31

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... KObrien_fan 11-05-04 32

       RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... kingfish 11-05-04 33

Is Ami the female Richard Hatch? Cathy the Canadian 11-05-04 34

   RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch... applejack93 11-06-04 35

   RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch... DRONES 11-08-04 36

       RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch... VerucaSalt 11-08-04 39

           RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch... DRONES 11-08-04 47

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... sylvester 11-08-04 40

A little insight on Ami NightScribe 11-08-04 42

   RE: A little insight on Ami sylvester 11-08-04 43

   RE: A little insight on Ami VerucaSalt 11-08-04 44

       RE: A little insight on Ami kingfish 11-08-04 46

   RE: A little insight on Ami DRONES 11-09-04 48

   RE: A little insight on Ami Flowerpower 11-09-04 49

       RE: A little insight on Ami kingfish 11-09-04 50

           RE: A little insight on Ami Flowerpower 11-09-04 52

               RE: A little insight on Ami kingfish 11-09-04 54

                   RE: A little insight on Ami pax 11-16-04 83

                       totally agree Pax shakes the clown 11-16-04 101

       RE And what of this week VerucaSalt 11-09-04 53

RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, T... Oscirus 11-09-04 51

   EGAD...NOT CHAD!!! emydi 11-09-04 55

       The Estrogen City run amok VerucaSalt 11-12-04 56

           RE: The Estrogen City run amok forehead 11-12-04 57

           RE: The Estrogen City run amok KObrien_fan 11-12-04 58

               RE: The Estrogen City run amok Flowerpower 11-12-04 59

           RE: The Estrogen City run amok DRONES 11-12-04 60

               RE: The Estrogen City run amok Brownroach 11-12-04 61

               RE: The Estrogen City run amok aethelstan 11-12-04 62

           RE: The Estrogen City run amok kingfish 11-12-04 63

           Well, CRAP..... emydi 11-12-04 64

               RE: Well, CRAP..... Flowerpower 11-13-04 65

               RE: Well, CRAP..... PepeLePew13 11-13-04 66

                   If Scout is as smart as I think she... sylvester 11-13-04 67

                       RE: If Scout is as smart as I think... kingfish 11-13-04 68

           RE: The Estrogen City run amok PepeLePew13 11-13-04 69

           How do we get to Leann in EP11? Krautboy 11-15-04 70

               RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11? sylvester 11-15-04 72

                   RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11? KObrien_fan 11-15-04 73

                       RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11? emydi 11-15-04 74

                   Eliza takes Julies place in the "ne... Krautboy 11-15-04 76

                       RE: Eliza takes Julies place in the... emydi 11-15-04 77

           Julie - ??? applejack93 11-15-04 71

               RE: Julie - ??? VerucaSalt 11-15-04 75

                   RE: Julie - ??? kingfish 11-15-04 78

                       like I've been saying... shakes the clown 11-15-04 79

                           RE: like I've been saying... kingfish 11-15-04 81

                               right here Kingfish shakes the clown 11-15-04 82

                                   Agree, yet disagree cowboyroo 11-16-04 85

                                       RE: Agree, yet disagree KObrien_fan 11-16-04 86

                                       Cowboy, you are missing the biggest... shakes the clown 11-16-04 92

                                           RE: Cowboy, you are missing the big... cowboyroo 11-17-04 107

                                   RE: right here Kingfish Booted 11-16-04 88

                                   RE: right here Kingfish kingfish 11-16-04 99

       Wow Amy.... shakes the clown 11-15-04 80

           RE: Wow Amy.... pax 11-16-04 84

               RE: Wow Amy.... VerucaSalt 11-16-04 87

               RE: Wow Amy.... Bebo 11-16-04 89

                   RE: Wow Amy.... kingfish 11-16-04 91

                   RE: Wow Amy.... Brownroach 11-16-04 93

                       RE: Wow Amy.... Bebo 11-16-04 94

                           RE: Wow Amy.... Brownroach 11-16-04 95

                       RE: Wow Amy.... VerucaSalt 11-16-04 96

                   Chris and Ami pinchy 11-16-04 97

                       RE: Chris and Ami kingfish 11-16-04 104

           RE: Wow Amy.... emydi 11-16-04 90

Scout's story lovwigglesworth 11-16-04 98

   RE: Scout's story emydi 11-16-04 100

   RE: Scout's story shakes the clown 11-16-04 102

       RE: Scout's story RyrieRae 11-16-04 103

           RE: Scout's story kingfish 11-16-04 105

           RE: Scout's story zazzy 11-17-04 108

       RE: Scout's story Flowerpower 11-16-04 106

           RE: Scout's story VerucaSalt 11-19-04 109

               RE: Scout's story emydi 11-19-04 110

               RE: Scout's story kingfish 11-19-04 111

                   RE: Scout's story RyrieRae 11-19-04 112

                       RE: Scout's story Nashter 11-19-04 114

                       RE: Scout's story pinchy 11-19-04 116

                   RE: Scout's story PepeLePew13 11-20-04 118

                       RE: Scout's story kingfish 11-20-04 121

               RE: Scout's story DRONES 11-19-04 113

                   RE: Scout's story kingfish 11-19-04 115

                       RE: Scout's story redbeard103152 11-20-04 117

                           I have to agree Nashter 11-20-04 119

                               RE: I have to agree aethelstan 11-20-04 120

Post Episode 11 discussion, surpris... Flowerpower 11-26-04 122

   RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... smokedog 11-26-04 123

       RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... Brownroach 11-29-04 127

   RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... fallingtogether 11-27-04 124

       RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... redbeard103152 11-27-04 125

   RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... DRONES 11-29-04 126

   RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, sur... Oscirus 11-30-04 128

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Messages in this topic

applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-01-04, 09:43 AM (EST)

1. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

I agree totally on your assertion on Ami and Rory (I even think you could include Eliza) in that they are characters that don't seem to resemble anything I have ever seen before.
AND, whilst I know that many people here do not follow the 'spoiler lists' that are posted around the web I thought I might just draw your attention to the fact that Snewser has made a change to his scorecard. I'm probably being pedantic but it DOES put into the question the certain nature with which people were viewing this weeks supposed boot: Julie. she isn't on the list anymore. Maybe this won't last but I though I might at least mention it.
Oh, and I think many people agree that a guy will win this season. If it were going to be any guy, it would be Chris. Sarge has been edited as too agressive, Rory too irritating (although that IS changing) and Chad - well any sensible player would steer clear of him. Chris has just the right amount of malice mixed with the right amount of...not-malice (?) to win. Whilst he is a schemer you never think of him as cruel.
I am so excited about the merge.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 11:30 AM (EST)

3. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-01-04 AT 12:06 PM (EST)
aj while unfortunately the spoilers do come into this realm, I have found too many times those who rely solely on spoiler lists tend to manipulate things to fit the spoiler and quite often the boot could be wrong or changed and suddenly a whole new crop of speculation to fit spoilers comes up.
This thread more or less tries to ascertain long term results as stories and editing can only be used up to a certain point as we can't predict someone making a move that is completely ludicrous or individual immunity. However, in terms of story purposes, Mark Burnett does tend to follow certain criteria at times.
As stated before, the fact that Eliza and Leann's personal life was not embellished at reward bothers me in terms of their longevity. This was a perfect opportunity to highlight the potential winner in terms of more than just the player.
This leads me to believe then that Eliza or Leann are not the winners (which I have already thought regardless anyway)
Ami's comment about no women alliance ever stayed together. Clear foreshadowing of things to come with the women. There will be a break amongst them and Rory has already started to crack it.
Now in terms of stories coming to a close. I will go back to an earlier post I made about those who are playing with NO story, those who have a story but game play is really not part of their character development and those who have both a story and a clear game being shown.
Those who have a clear story but not really part/parcel with game playing are Leann and Twilla. Their stories have been their characterizations and other than a blurb here and there, no focus has been on their game playing. I had maintained before that once their stories have been completed, they probably will go; naturally their positions play a part also.
Leann has a very interesting story as said before of growth and learning. I don't think she has reached that moment yet of fulfilling her story. But in contrast with Eliza, we have seen her more of a person and how the game affects her character whereas Eliza is playing and she affects the game.
Eliza clearly is playing the game but her story is more about what she is doing to the players and in the game as opposed to a "backstory" if you will. Eliza, again will shake the branches quite often but there has not been much investment in her as a "person" Therefore I cannot believe she will place higher than the other three on Yasur.
Rory, Ami and Scout I will defer since all three received obligatory sentimental moments, they are being invested in even more by Mark Burnett. Scout being the most balanced of the three suggests she may come out of this in a better position.
At Lopevi:

Twilla may in fact be coming to a conclusion shortly. Her trouble acclimating with the women to being joined with the men to now full circle back in the midst of both could signal an end sooner rather than later. She is now a woman with men but still a woman. With nothing more to go on than this, she may be in danger. Twilla concerns me greatly this episode and I am not far pressed to believe her story may end.
Julie played the game with no story and the little story she is now getting was her strategy from before the game. Her game playing could not take off and now too late for any further embellishment.
Lea has a nice backstory to his game playing as his real life persona is how he is playing the game. It is not so much a story of growth but how he is essentially living his life in the game. Ironically that is now being compromised with an addition of some women. For as strong as he thinks he is, he is a weak leader as we all have seen. More than likely he will be the first male to leave and there may be a decision that would involve Rory or his going hence my wrap up of that storyline.
Chad and Chris For right now they are on equal footing. Chad only now is being shown other than someone playing the game with mention of his handicap but it was not nearly played upon as much as it could have been. Much like the quick camera shots of his leg, it was mentioned by John more or less I believe to throw the seed there for something more to happen later. Chris and Chad are thinking with each other and implementing the strategy they devised from the beginning hence the two of them always talking. They have been game playing from the beginning with no real backstory but I would expect shortly we may see something more from both in terms of fleshing them out a bit more when Mark Burnett can.
Merger is going to shed a lot of light on these questions. I'm unsure if Twilla's story is now completely done or not and this is where I am perplexed. Conceivably she has reached the pinnacle of how Mark Burnett has showcased her. Julie had no story at all except for what is being shown now and that is only useful while she is ONLY surrounded by men.

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marebear79 19 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
11-01-04, 12:36 PM (EST)

4. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

>Ami's comment about no women alliance
>ever stayed together. Clear foreshadowing
>of things to come with
>the women. There will
>be a break amongst them
>and Rory has already started
>to crack it.
>
This commect is very interesting VS. It indicates to me that the woman who recognizes the cracking of the alliance and jumps ship will be the one who goes the farthest--Eliza perhaps?

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Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 11:23 AM (EST)

2. "the next three"

last thursdays and the thursday before last focused alot on chad which I think pretty much confirms that chad is gone next week. Id say editing wise the only two who it makes sense towards getting a boot would be Ami( sudden softening with her tragic story of her brother) and rory(obvious reasons) and right now gamewise ami's leaving makes no sense. It looks like Sarge's story is getting ready to come to an end making him my pick for the seven. Try as I might I really can't see any scenario in which Julie is gone this week.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 01:57 PM (EST)

5. "RE: the next three"

marebear, very true and I agree that someone in that position may escape front attack and I do think Eliza may be that person for a time.
oscirus I believe that Ami's editing most certainly shows her to be vulnerable as you state. But I don't believe her story or Rory's is done yet.
I'm still inclined to think Julie is receiving her obligatory moment in the sun. Twilla is another person who could reach her conclusion as well but it is hard to know that until the show is actually being watched whereas we are seeing promos that are highlighting Julie in her full glory

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-01-04, 02:04 PM (EST)

6. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

The saga of Rory definitely seems poised to take a turn this week. He's been front and center in nearly every episode, in danger and getting votes cast against him, but always escaping unscathed. Last week he stressed that Yasur will burn if he gets voted off, and he specifically named Ami as #1 on his hitlist.
The merge has to bring a payoff one way or the other to this storyline, imo. There are two directions it can take:
1) Rory finally gets into a position of relative security, where his strategy starts paying off and he will not be a target for awhile; or
2) Rory's tale finally comes to an end this week -- ironically the merge doesn't save him. As has happened more than once in the past, one of the primary narrators gets killed off at the halfway mark, in time for Act II to commence.
So which is it?

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 02:21 PM (EST)

7. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-01-04 AT 02:22 PM (EST)
BR in my limited capacity, I think he is safe and Chris and Chad will welcome him back; Lea grudgingly if at all but remember Lea is not the true chief
Chris and his "numbers, numbers, numbers" and picking off the women. Lea was the only one who had any real issue with Rory. I suggest that Rory wants to begin yet another battle and his methods/means are with the men.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-01-04, 02:38 PM (EST)

8. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

So then you're choosing option one, VS?
I don't think there will be any real battle between Sarge and Rory again -- they have bigger things to worry about. I think his war against Ami will be Rory's prime motivation now.

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 02:44 PM (EST)

9. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

If that is the option where Rory lives another day? Yes, yes I am
Oh BR if I were to back out of the Rory/Sarge fight then I would not look very committed to my way of thinking since it isn't exactly the most popular way lolol. I look at it terms of Rory escaping again with the help of the old Fat Five alliance but the issues in that alliance are still alive and well. I also think that their butting of heads is not finished and Lea may very well be the boot when it should have been Rory.

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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-01-04, 02:56 PM (EST)

10. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

I think this is the time where Rory gets revenge on his foe Ami. The all female alliance shatters at the merge with its head Ami being the first casualty. She comes in second to a man at the IC and second is not good enough to save her butt. Rory said he was going to burn Yassur. The teaser for the series was that someone was gonna get burned and Ami does. Two forshadowings come to fruition at the merge.RedBeard

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 03:06 PM (EST)

11. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

yes redbeard that causes some consternation with Rory's suggestion as well as Ami's statement about a woman alliance never getting that far. As I have said, this type of analysis can't take into effect people who win immunity and how that changes up the progression of stories or if someone does something that cannot be foreseen.
Ami on paper is a very big threat by all sides so I agree with you on that. I don't see Rory going at all. Unfortunately I can't watch the beginning of this episode before Thursday lol and these are projections in terms of the end game result with whom Mark Burnett invests the most time in and to what degree he is investing it. We did get a turn of Ami's editing where a lot of people have started not to like her and as I had said in the past thread I have never seen Mark Burnett portray a player from gleamingly positive to negative and have them win the game and Ami's editing turn was strange in that regard hence my thoughts that Scout now fares better as a final two player over Ami when we first were looking at their stories.
This is a perplexing week and always is with terms of stories and players since merger tends to put a new spin on storylines. But I do not feel Rory reaches the end; there seems to be more on the horizon for him

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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-01-04, 03:44 PM (EST)

12. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

I also agree that Rory dosn't reach the end VS. In fact I see this episode as being part of his story that will be ending one chapter for him and beginning another.RedBeard

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-01-04, 06:37 PM (EST)

13. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

I like that redbeard, i.e. chapters!
This is probably why I am more inclined to view the stories in that way. While I agree with you about Ami, I guess based on everything thus far, *I* am not ready to close her book but Julie's chapter for me has reached an inevitable conclusion right or wrong. Never is a perfect science is it

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shangrila 7 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
11-02-04, 01:27 AM (EST)

14. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-02-04 AT 01:28 AM (EST)
Julie is a goner no matter what:
Before all, even at the merge, Julie will be an outsider (no alliance) and will be see as a threat (to go with the other alliance-tribe)
1.If no merge (or fake one) and her tribe lost IC, she's gone.
2.If merge and don't talk with the girls about Twila-Guys alliance, she is an easy target for both team who will both feared her because they will think she will go with the opposite team. Ami will also don't trust her, about all if Ami learn or see her flirting with Sarge.
3.If Julie speak to the women about Twila/Sarge/Chirs/Chad alliance, the girls will not trust her entirely and who probably ask question to Twila herself. Twila wil surely reveal that Julie say to her that she also have an alliance. Julie will now be trap in her own trap:
If Julie say nothing she will be see as a deceiving person playing them. If she say that was not true (her guys alliance). They (at the least Twila aand probably Ami) wil be angry to her and they will surely not trust her.
Also there is only one person who have "is legit" for me to make many one-to-one alliance for next episode: Julie. It's defenitely not Chris, Sarge, Chad, Ami, Scout, Leann because they are on alliances. Rory doesn't have many choice with Ami closing the Yasur door and Eliza has nothing to fear because she will not be the prime target (she UTR now and she is not a threat)no matter what and I don't think that Eliza can play so poorly. Twila have two solid alliances with both tribe so.
Julie has already start making one to one alliance with Twila. Maybe she will continue next episode by making other with Sarge, Eliza and so on.
So for me, Julie is the logical boot for the next episode but we never know.
And after that, I think it will be the showdown between Ami and Chris. The girls will still have the majority but Chris plays well right now and I think Ami made a big mistake by not keeping Rory in an alliance (or fake one) with her and co.
Because of that, I think Chris as an advantage and probably Twila will be the deciding vote.

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applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-02-04, 08:32 AM (EST)

15. "Something interesting"

I don't know if anyone else feels the same but I am suddenly getting a very good feeling about Leanne. Most likely because of her editing to date.
She HAS a story, we are seeing her undergoing a journey. Yet, so far she has not undergone anywhere near enough for her journey to be complete. What's more, whilst she is frequently accused of being UTR, her presence is felt (if even slightly) in every episode. Her presence is only ever felt slightly, but this has happened in EVERY episode. THis leads me to believe that she will only ever be given a small portion of the episode that focuses on her. Seeing as though MB has bothered investing her with a story-line, and seeing as though her air-time is consistently low, it would take an awful long time for her story to play out. Thus, she would need to make it very far in the game.
All of this, of course, relies on MB remaining consistent in his editing.
Anyway VS, seeing as though you have an eye for this sort of thing that I could never have, have there ever been any players who were voted out before their story came to an end? Or, for that matter, were there any players who made it quite far (by quite far I mean jury) without ever really having a story? Survivor: Marquesas didn't air in Australia (instead we had our own version - don't go there. It was horrible) but I have read about it extensively and to me it seems that Zoe Zenedakis was an absolute non-entity. Is there any more evidence of this sort of stuff happening? Because if there is, we might be stuck with Julie and someone with a great story like Lea, Rory or Ami could be dealt an abrupt ending.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-02-04, 08:45 AM (EST)

16. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-02-04 AT 10:57 AM (EST)
I can agree with that but most importantly I am selecting Julie because her story is done in my opinion.
I re-watched the show and I know quite a lot of you as I did saw the impending fireworks that appeared to be ready to ignite between Rory and Ami. Something during the episode bothered me greatly as it appeared to continuously flip/flop between the two of them. Love/hate relationship personified at its best. There is definitely a connection between the two, when and how it will play out, we can only guess.
One thing I have always noted is that when a tribe wins immunity, everyone is happy and there usually is never any talk about a boot or someone gunning for someone. This is often a "tool" if you will that I use when I watch previews to ascertain who may be going to tribal council.
What I found suspicious is Rory's confessional after they had already won immunity where Rory discusses "I rocked Ami.........." Then his discussion about how Ami could have gotten rid of him or kept him as a close friend (paraphrasing) and now he is out for her. I found that confessional extremely strange in light of how exuberant and "feel good" the tribe was. Even more disconcernting was how Ami and Rory were shown bonding at the cafe where Ami indicated she felt a strong bond with Rory. It seemed suspicious that after all the "feel good" time they would show Rory discussing "getting Ami" when frankly there was no reason for this discussion. This is where I always am suspicious about the editors and their "timing" of confessionals.
Would it not have been more appropriate for Rory to make that kind of statement (i.e. rocked Ami's world and out to get her) after the confrontation he had with Ami and Leann where Ami seemingly would not budge and there was a coldness between the two of them?
This is where we need to be careful with what we hear and when we hear it. Obviously I don't know when Rory made that confessional but the timing of such was very off in light of how positive the camp was with their two wins whereas the "I rocked Ami" confessional seems entirely appropriate after they had their little discussion with Leann present.
Obviously this was done for a reason if Mark Burnett played around with the time sequence but this may not then indicate a Rory and Ami situation happens immediately but rather setting up something for the audience to believe and may come to fruition at another time.
Now some fun stuff:
Julie I have no loyalties to the women
TwillaMe neither
Indication of the upcoming issue?
Julie againMy plan worked, for right now
Twilla: YOu need someone you can honestly depend on
I don't necessarily know how this will play out but it would certainly not surprise me if Julie gets "caught"
Chris indicators for boot selection: Trust is important and hard to come by and the future as who is going to benefit me or my alliance For what it is worth, I see no reason that Chris will turn on Chad at any time soon. I believe that he trusts Chad implicitely although........
ChadI feel I can pick up on that (manipulating) Sign of getting "bamboozled" or indicative of his finding someone out?
Scout was noticeably absent during this episode except for her reward moment. Either Rory is confident about Scout being on his side or Scout has no say in the matter and Rory knows this.
There were a multitude of shots of Rory and Ami even when others were involved in the interaction. They are connected absolutely but by negative means or positive?
Scout whispering at the IC: Boy this game has turned
Ami: I looked at Julie and I felt hurt that she or Twilla are going home
Chad/Chris: Chad inferring that he doesn't believe that Julie will stay with Lopevi with Chris replying he doesn't think they are just hung up on just women Is Chads "talent" working here?
Again JK mentioning Chad He would get the sympathy vote, sad but true; no one notices him Personally I find this so ironic. A man with a prosthesis on a physically grueling show where sympathy is often deemed as a threat status and hasn't gotten noticed?? You would think he would be "noticed" constantly. Quite frankly, whatever Chad is doing to be "unnoticed" deserves high marks considering his leg is so noticeable.
At this point for reasons that I find other "stories" unfinished right now, I think it is quite possible that Julie's attempt may be her undoing.
ETA: AJ, I read your post at the time I was posting so it appears that I responded to you when I didn't There have been times where someone has no story whatsoever and has lasted. Nick from Australia was one, Zoe as you said is another. Amber in Australia really had no story either.
The difference between them and Julie though is that Julie is attempting to play the game and has been shown that. It is almost unfair to compare the different seasons though because Mark Burnett has "tweaked" his editing and stories throughout the seasons and Julie had the misfortune of being placed on a tribe where she could not utilize her game playing antics from the beginning so her "story" as it were could not officially really start until she was with the men.
Julie *had* her story IMO and could now be completed. Zoe, Amber, Nick however had no story and no real strategy told to us (other than latching on to a dominant player/alliance)
In a broad way, I am equating Julie's premise almost to the likes of Shii Ann on Thailand except that SA was more insulated by Jake until the non merger merger happened. I feel like Julie is employing her strategy because she can but it is too little and too late (like Shii Ann) and she may make a mistake and step over the line (as Shii Ann did) Please note I'm not saying their "strategies" are the same but the general situation appears that way.
There can always be a surprise boot but I must say this season's editing has been very intriguing and it is hard for me to imagine the amount Mark Burnett invested in certain people for it to abruptly die like that.
Leann is very interesting apple which I have stated before. Personally, I love watching her. She is very endearing but I don't see her story as winning this but purely a growing experience. At times she seems so enthralled with what is going around her; her emotional backstory is very real but this show does require strategy and game playing. Ideally I would suspect MB would have shown us a hint of this from her perspective and nothing as of yet. While Chad has been very "low key" as well, there has been things uttered by him that show he is playing the Survivor game therefore I think Leann will be a touching story and probably an emotional boot.

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applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-02-04, 07:14 PM (EST)

21. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

right, I really understand what you are saying about Julie being like Shii-Ann. Julie's boot is enevitable, I agree, but the latest spoiler commotion just made me think there might be a surprise boot. But, as you said, it's a problem that people have of listening to the spoilers without looking at what is going on on the show. I think maybe I got caught up in it lol.
I don't see Leanne as a winner either, but I see her making the final 6, maybe even the final 4. She definately is VERY endearing.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-02-04, 09:08 AM (EST)

17. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LOPEVI
Strike one...Her strategy never got off of the ground (as VS pointed out) because of the all female tribe. Strike two...When she finally does make it to a tribe that has men, she is met with luke warm responses, and the one guy who showed any open interest was voted off. Strike three...She tries to fool Twilla(play the game), but I suspect that didn't work. Notice we never saw Twilla going to Lea about Julie being approached by the men. Could that be because she was also a target or at the very least right after JK? She's out.
Twilla has positioned herself very well since the merge and I'm not so sure that she doesn't last awhile longer. The big tell for her will be when the tribes merge.
Sarge has slipped into the background. His time is coming, when he meets up with Rory again. Editing done early on has me convinced that there will be show down. When you are a Sarge, you need that battle to fight.
Chris with his ominous quote early on of being able to fool men more easily than women. What is the first thing he does when faced with an opportunity to get rid of a women who could potentially take him down? He practically begs Chad to keep both of the women. I think Chris is already being outplayed by the women and he hasn't even been confronted by Eliza, Ami or Scout.
Chad finally recieved an increase in face time with his leg in plane site for all to see. Notice Chad questionion Chris's logic about the JK vote. The only ones who every really saw Chad as "true" threat are gone from the game. Chad's story is starting to be developed.
YASUR
Speaking of balance, I wonder if Rory doesn't get his from having a nemisis. He seems to be at his best when he has a challenge right in front of him. 1st Sarge then Ami. Since I wonder if Sarge will employ the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If I may quote Toni, a good friend of Shakes the Clown, and bug eyed roid rager, "GAME ON" Rory, was not showing his open anger with Ami like he did with Sarge. He seemed pretty passive aggressive in his behaviour. I wonder if he is hiding from Ami that she is on his hit list.
With the letters from home we saw 3 people prominantly, Rory, Ami and Scout. She was given a very soft touch. She has not been shown playing the game. She is all about balance and achieving it for her tribe. She is now without an alliance partner which puts her in a rough spot with the remaining women. How will her and Twilla react to one another? Will she join in with her and the 3 men? Could this be the shattered alliance with the women? I bet her betraying Ami, Eliza and Leann would be percieved as a betrayal of sorts.
Leann is in that very enviable position at merge as someone who is not a threat. She's weak in challenges and not vocal. Like Jeff said, "It's to late". She has recieved the least face time of any body. She was not personalized at all with her letter for home. MB is saying that she is a not important enough to invest that sort of emotion.
Eliza has slid into the background...for now. She, like Leann is weak in challenges, actually she's a quiter, at least Leann didn't give up. She poses the least physical threat. She is not willing to get down and dirty with the pigs oink oink lol. Unlike Leann though she can't keep her mouth shut. There is always that point after the merge, where someone gets Kimmied. No letter time for her either. This surprised me quit a bit. I always believed that she would go far. The editing is convincing me other wise.
Ami, who was shown crying quite a bit over her letter was softened up on the personal front. This did not stop MB from showing her Lex-like game play. I wonder if she knows that she is on Rory's hit list. This didn't seem like a typical feel sorry for Ami before we boot her episode, it seemed more like a personalization for someone who is going far in the game.
This is all subject to change after the merge which can and does change the dynamic along with individual immunity.
PLEASE VOTE TODAY!!
DRONES

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-02-04, 12:57 PM (EST)

19. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

I wonder if she knows that she is on Rory's hit list.
I don't think this has occurred to Ami at all, primarily because she doesn't see Rory as being in a position to threaten her -- either now or after the merge.
It will be interesting to see how people scramble this week though. If Ami gets a lukewarm response from Twila and Julie about returning to the women's alliance, she may swallow her pride and go back to Rory about sticking with her and Leann like he said he would. But it's a little late for that...

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-02-04, 03:18 PM (EST)

20. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

DRONES, excellent observations Since I am inclined to agree with you I can say that lolol. Regardless if we are both off the marker as this show always tends to keep me on my toes, you make extremely valid points.
And yes, I will vote today lol

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-02-04, 07:58 PM (EST)

22. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Very sensible, well done. And convincing.
Just one small point, though. About Eliza. I can tell you have a bad reaction to her unwillingness to sacrifice her cleanliness for her tribe, I do too, I mean after that much time on the island W/O toilet paper (?I assume) soap (They didn’t win that yet or did they?) or the other niceties that we rely on, she has to be pretty ookie anyway, so what the heck was she thinking. Spoiled rich kid I think.
However, she is a threat in some of the challenges. She’s not a weak swimmer (OK anorexia/malnutrition may/will sap her stamina). But she really stands out in the mental challenges. She may be THE strongest, and certainly is one of the strongest threat for challenges requiring mental acuity, if there are any more. Remember the Euler’s square, Rory was flopping around, as were the rest of the guys, remember their hilarious Three+ Stooges routine? But Eliza got it. She grasped how to solve it with the diagonals. And that is one of those intelligence indicators, solving puzzles by being able to recognize patterns. She’s a sneaky threat because I think the others may not snap to her abilities as easily as they recognize those with physical abilities.
Let me take a moment though, because I appreciate your and BR and esp VS and the others’ evaluations, y’all shake and bake and push and shove, explore different (and ingenious) angles and by Wednesday evening, you guys come up with some pretty convincing stuff.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-02-04, 11:37 PM (EST)

23. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Good observations on Eliza. She does strike me as extremely intelligent. I probably went a little over board on bashing Eliza, especially since I based it on the pig catching oink oink lol(sorry, I just can't help myself) RC. She may turn out to be very good in most challenges, specifically those involving logic/resoning/memory. Her quiting on that pig oink oink RC may come into play. I think that when the going gets to tough for her in a physical challeng she will be one of the first to drop, especially in those that involve stamina or extreme physical labor.
kingfish, keep adding your thoughts, because your input is a prime example of the exploring that goes on in this thread
DRONES

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Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings
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11-02-04, 09:16 AM (EST)

18. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Does it hurt to be as smart as you?

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 09:14 AM (EST)

24. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Chris and Twila will be the final 2.
That's my wild-ass prediction based on last night's episode. I know I'm not the first to bring it up, but I think we got a lot of evidence supporting it last night. And I think the folks who picked Chris to win this thing are probably right on target.
We heard a lot from Chris last night on strategy and his alliances. Why would this information be relevant? If the men were going to just be picked off one by one, this information would not be significant.
Why Chris and Twila? Because that's the only final 2 alliance that Chris did not admit to in last night's episode. He's been so careful with his strategic moves that it makes no sense that he would make a deal with all but one member of his alliance. Either he makes a legitimate final 2 alliance with one person, or he tries to make an alliance with all. The 'all but one' approach does not make sense.
We've got no insight into how the women break down once the game gets to just them. Why? Because the game never does get down to the all-women dream that Ami envisions. There is no need to show the viewers any female alliances at a lower level, since that is never relevant to the game. All we know is that Julie and Twila have a pact, because they agreed to watch each other's back while trying to make it at Lopevi.
Twila will finish second, as she surprisingly finds herself playing the villain role.
Jeff said in an interview that there are villains, but they don't see themselves that way. Folks have also been pointing out the snakes being shown near Twila. Right now, the men think that Julie and Twila are the villains for not sticking with their alliance. If Twila stays true to her word to vote off Rory first, then Ami, then the women will see her as the villain who destroyed the women's alliance. Chris would destroy Twila in a final vote, with perhaps Scout being the only woman not holding a grudge against Twila and giving her a vote.
Please abide in my words, for my references speak of the truth that is within me.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-05-04, 11:25 AM (EST)

25. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Bebo excellent observations and I am glad you brought up something I noticed last night which perplexed me; Chris's lack of mentioning Twilla as a final two partner.
When Chris discussed his pacts with Chad, Lea and Julie, I immediately though (as you did) what about Twilla? Especially in light of the fact that Twilla was the selection over Julie as far as valued woman there. Plus I believe that John Kenney mentioned something about his having an alliance with Chris and Twilla of some sort but someone can assist on that since I don't pay much attention to interviews, etc.
The merger episode is the akthrough for all new stories edits to emerge if they haven't already. Alas, I am a little saddened that Rory was invested so much with such a sad way to go; he was right.......he was a victim of a gender war. Shame really, his edit, challenge talent and strategizing were powerful making this "science" a muddied one at times
This has probably been the most interesting and perplexing season insofar as editing and stories go. All bets may be off now but I am still bothered by some key quotes and edits.
Bebo, your mention of Chris as being final two is interesting. We have mentioned before of how he has a strange story; very open in his confessionals early about strategy then dipped only to be now featured again. I keep going back to his discussion about being able to manipulate men over women and do believe still that this is his downfall. Unfortunately for Chris he was a victim by his own vision.
The premise of this show was how this culture was dominated by men. Looking back over our initial themes may serve us better and unfortunately this premise will take one of two turns. Either the dominating male culture of this island will prevail or modern society being thrown into their culture will upset the way of Vanuatu thinking. Bebo if we utilize these two thought processes, the irony is that Twilla is representative of both
I am still trying to analyze the dialogue, the face time, the way the players sat with each other, the closeups and so forth which may take the entire weekend
Some initial thoughts to ponder:
Chris We were meant to see his final pacts with three different people and again the ommision of Twilla. There is the old saying strategies revealed fail on this show...........
Chad and Chris's forthright discussion where Chris made his little gaff on the "one leg up" reference to Lea and Chad
I know it appears virtually an impossibility but something still nags at me about Chad's edit.
Gender battling Truly a war and Lea being the troop leader always referencing war will play a huge part in this.
The commentary about Twilla's strategizing, i.e. the men have to think for her, and Chad's comments to Twilla
The renewal of Eliza and Julie's bowhead connection
Scout's commentary about Twilla. Twilla's response to that
Scout's edit perplexes me greatly as well. While she was not overt, whatever she DID say was pertinent. While Ami did not say much (despite the episode revolving a lot around her) she was a palpable presence throughout.
With an all out war approaching between the genders and most likely within the genders, one has to question where Mark Burnett wants to take us. A power struggle between men vs. women has been the crux of this season yet there is a definite sense that there may be a wrinkle in that story.
As discussed in prior threads, I have yet to see a player being edited positively to negatively and winning. Coupled with Ami's key quote about never finishing second behind a man, I cannot conceive Ami winning though I had high hopes for her or Scout to finish in the number two position. Originally I thought Ami's statement could be an interesting irony that she would not be finishing second behind a man but rather a woman; it would be interesting to see if that comes to fruition.
Going back to Scout as my other final two female (though Bebo your thought process on Twilla is indeed intriguing) Scout's exuding again of balance and harmony and being a soul searcher and keeping order in this island of war and turmoil is very enticing to me. Will she break her tie to Ami is a big question here.
While Eliza and Julie and Leann are probably not doing so badly, again, the investment in them long term does not seem to pay off for me. Until I get more I find their situations ending at jury.
Obviously with the male numbers dwindling this leads us to new thoughts to ponder. It would appear that Twilla is indeed viewing ALL power players not just male or female which would lead us to believe that Ami and Lea would have to leave. Despite OUR knowledge that Lea is not really calling the shots, he is perceived to be. The fact that Twilla may vote out Lea is also evidence that she does, in fact, have some arrangement with Chris. WE see that Chris is making quite a few decisions (as Chad) but Chris is not being mentioned by Twilla or the others. Therefore, something strange IS going on here.
In conjunction, Chad has most certainly been shown to be very game savvy. He seemed to be the only member of the male trio who foresaw these events may occur. While his open mouth exhibited surprise, his knowing nod and sarcastic smile was also evidence that he was emphatically correct in what he thought might happen
With Ami, her story is either a number two position being trounced as the villian at the end or with her being the major focus of just about everyone last night with hardly a word from her mouth, she is reaching a crescendo. Those who felt Ami would go last week may only have been off by one week as her story dictates either being pummeled now or at the end. There doesn't really seem any other way to go with her now.
Again, individual immunities are crucial and we can not know who wins them for sure and I am fairly positive there will be an equalizer so Scout has the opportunity to win one and perhaps a crucial one.
For all intents and purposes, Lea has been highlighted for next week and thus would appear to be next on the women's list but with Ami's story building an all time high, she should either go now or she will be the final two female.
The question thereafter is not if but WHEN do the females break down as Jeff stated. My guess is that for the women to break down, then something must occur for this to happen. As of last night they are intact. Therefore if the design is for Twilla and Julie to reach out to the men to take out Ami, this THEN will be the telling moment that the women will splinter.
Will Vanuatu be shocked that the women infiltrated their way of life or will the island go back to what it knows? What does Mark Burnett wish to tell us here. In the Amazon, the women were pertinent to that culture and indeed prevailed. Does Vanuatu need to be modernized or will the ultimate sacrifice be who is revered the most?

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 01:16 PM (EST)

30. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-05-04 AT 01:17 PM (EST)
I (for once) actually followed your logic. Very rational, and what struck me most were the bits about Ami.
The irony would be especially delicious if Twilla and Julie were to vote with the guy squad do her in.
Her comment about "never finishing second to a man" is so perfect for completing the scene of her demise, because not only would she finish behind the guy squad, but this inglorious finish will have to have been facilitated by two women, at least one of which she openly (possibly inadvertently) alienated (her hubris I think).
Stabbed in the back, stabbed in the front, and hoist with her own petard! Cest la Vie (? Can't spell in French either).
Let the pigs eat her bones!! (Sorry, that sounds more strident than I intended, but I had to reference a Vanuatu theme).

Now, if only the actual Survivor voters can be made to see the beautiful irony. Sometimes they don't cooperate so well.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-08-04, 08:20 AM (EST)

38. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

All I have to say about this episode is WOW!! I did not see this comeing, especially the way it did.
It was hard for me to see the Rory boot coming because he had so much face time. He was being edited with a story to be told, and show down between him and Ami, which never materialized. His story with Lea was cleaned up nicely as he was welcomed with open arms back into the male tribe hmmmm...and there you have it. Rory, who started out this game by being in conflict with the men, was booted after having reconciled with said men. I guess in order for there to be conflict both parties have to be involved and Ami was not involved. She may not have even been aware of his dislike of her. I guess when you look at it like that then, it is possible to say that Rory's story was indeed told.
Notice Eliza quiting on another challenge? The going gets tough, and she just mails it in. These challenges are tough, even the mental ones and Eliza just does not have the drive to finish one off. She is playing the role of a patsy side kick.
I'm really having a hard time getting a handle on some of these people. Most notably Scout, Twilla and Julie. So that leaves me with.
Ami, putting personal opinions asside, is playing a very straightforward game. We know for a fact that she has not alliance with any of the men. She is in strong with Eliza and Leann with Julie, Scout and Twilla on the outside looking in.
Leann is a pawn in Ami's game. She owe's her survival thus far to her. Like Eliza and Ami, you just know that she has no alliance with any of the men.
The lack of alliance options limits the potential for possible match ups. I need to think about this a while longer
I'm going to take so more time and finish this out later today.

DRONES

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 11:35 AM (EST)

26. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

LAST EDITED ON 11-05-04 AT 11:36 AM (EST)
Actually, bebo, I got totally the opposite feeling from this. It was like Brian Heidik finally revealing that he had everyone in the palm of his hand in the Final 5 episode. But this revelation came from the horse's mouth way too early, imo, even if he didn't specifically mention Twila.
And VS, yes, John Kenney did say that he and Chris and Twila had an alliance.
Lastly, and this is not an editing issue -- John Kenney has said in post-show interviews that he wants Chris to win because he is a good player. I think that is the kiss of death for Chris' chances.

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 12:03 PM (EST)

27. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

To a certain extent, I disagree with that. At one point in time, MB guarded closely who the winner was and what the editing pattern was, in order to make the eventual winner somewhat of a surprise.
But in All Stars, they did show us the alliance that was going to win the game, and right in the 2nd episode of the show. Then, later when Jenna and Rupert came over to Chapera, MB chose to show us the final 4 agreement. Not to mention that we had Sleek28 and a hoard of others pelting the media with a Romber finale. (I had never heard anything on my local radio station about final 2 predictions, but for All Stars it was there. then it was a matter of if you believed it or not.)
The addition of having Survivor live is new this year and I have been watching closely to see if any of the players mess up and say something they shouldn't, or at least hedge on certain questions. It is also interesting to hear all of what Richard Hatch has to offer.
I'm not sure that MB really cares if we "know" what the alliances are or "hear" that someone wants a certain player to win. Survivor has been around long enough that it will be a success because of its fan following.
Sometimes reverse pyschology can work better, and after all these years his editing is still throwing us for loops, so he must be doing something right.

2004 A S S Trivia Champ

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 12:32 PM (EST)

29. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Perhaps, but I can't help thinking back to S7 when Rhino repeatedly said he wanted Darrah to win and it didn't faze all the people who predicted that Darrah would actually win. I think the contestants are still coached to mislead in their post-show appearances.
Chris' confessional was a follow-up to his conversation with Chad where they made their F2 alliance. We didn't see a follow-up confessional from Chad though. For all we know, Chad has been making other individual alliances too.

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-04, 06:48 AM (EST)

37. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

True, but there was also Barfin' Tanya who was very quick to say she thought PornoBrian would/should win the game during her Early Show interview -- I'm aware it was very early in the game at the time (after episode 2 in Thailand).

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-08-04, 11:03 AM (EST)

41. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

True, Tanya did say Brian on TES, when she was asked who she wanted to win, but it was just that one time. And she said it sort of lacklusterly, as if she didn't really have any preference, and she didn't say why, she just threw out his name.
I think especially from circa-merge on, though, people will be lying when answering this question.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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11-08-04, 02:21 PM (EST)

45. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

And we're getting hit over the head with Chris.
Rory told Richard on Survivor Live on Friday that out of the 3 guys left, Chris, has the best chance of winning....

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Jerrethan 51 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
11-05-04, 12:19 PM (EST)

28. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

People, can you say "Marquesas"? (déja-vù... Ami = John C. Let's hope "she" doesn't cry) At least that's what the editing is "telling" me...

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-05-04, 01:45 PM (EST)

31. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Yes BR this is where I get suspicious with Chris due to past strategies revealed have had a tendency to fail miserably much like Ami's strategy to have an all female contigent at the end.
I have amassed all the themes discussed:
Old vs. young
Male vs. female
Sacrifice and spiritualism
Harmony and Balance
Male dominated cultured
War and Peace
Is it possible that Scout embodies all? She has been high on my list with Ami and as already discussed Ami will either be that final two woman or reach her crescendo (the particulars are yet another riddle) now so while it is hard to fathom to some, she does, in fact, have, not only an interesting edit but also a very strange hold on the themes presented.
Rory's comment thatYasur will burn is not on lost on me either. Interesting how that may tie in with Alinta along with Scout being the one to tell the audience of the merged name's backstory.
I thought I would re-print the comments Jeff made about the players
Scout
Jeff: Scout is hard to not get behind her. She survived cancer, has a spirit about her. If you had to draw her, she is like a tree with her branches opened. She fit into the scene for the spirituality and in that sense. She brought fresh air, not a cynic, an optimist.

Eliza
Jeff: There are certain people that leap out when you see their tape (she was one of them). She is sharp for her age. She has strong point of view and very well thought out for someone not on the planet that long. Eliza working against her is that she likes to share her opinion all the time. She is kind of like the puppy that won't go away, you want to tell her to be quiet but she wouldn’t listen if you did. We saw that on day one when we interviewed her, she has a big personality for as long as she lasts.

Chad
He is a fit, young dad for the show having a bad leg can work for you or against you. For you with sympathy but against, no way in hell will they let him go too long with people taking him out (because of the sympathy vote) You saw in the first challenge, he did fine where the guy with two legs never did. He is a likeable guy, great attitude to life. He is a competitor and that is what sold us on him. He said he was more agile than 80 percent of the guys that have been on the show. That is what got him on the show and that will either hurt him or serve him well.

Leann
Smart player and got the feeling when he was with her she holds more close to the chest, can settle in the middle but the problem is you get lost and no one connects with, fine line between connect and hanging out on edges
Ami
From Colorado, gay, beautiful (two are gay) from a background that gives her that chance to be a leader or prepped her to be a leader; you could tell she wanted to put those skills to the test; lead by inclusion not separating; when they found out it was women she said let's not fracture; the person that takes the leader role has a target
Julie
Mentor, smartass, flirty; funny works against her it is man/women; she has a good spirit about it; she told us if she can use it she will
Chris
Great blue collar guy; off to a rough spot; big heart; engaged or has a woman in his life that he talked about a lot; good guy; not a quitter; a guy you know will play the game like Mariano; super exciting to us
Lea-Sarge
Drill sergeant who took time off; he is a full time order barking machine; when he sees men, he saw that he could run; problem is you may have guys not wanting to be part of his platoon; will win people over and that they will see he is okay or he will drive people out of their skulls w/ the either/or spiel.
Twila
Cannot not be another Twila; as you see in the first episode, you get a taste and she can't help it; doesn’t know any other way; least equipped in the social sense; works 3 jobs, there for one reason, one million dollars; doesn't care about making friends and will do what it takes; I instantly liked her, goal clean and need strong but will need to learn a lot out there; people could eat her alive

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 01:49 PM (EST)

32. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Rory's comment thatYasur will burn is not on lost on me either. Interesting how that may tie in with Alinta along with Scout being the one to tell the audience of the merged name's backstory.
Jeff Probst: Survivor Vanuatu...Somebodies gonna get burned!!
Coincidence?

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-05-04, 08:02 PM (EST)

33. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

(I hope this is apropos here, if not just let me know and I’ll delete it. I don’t really want to start a thread on this subject though).
Speaking of telling phrases (and Twilla’s Theme?) what about this:
At the merge, when Twilla looked over and said she was surprised that “that one there” wasn’t booted, indicating Rory.
This, with her inflection, would be a remark typical of a racist. Doesn’t necessarily mean she is a racist, just an indication, but taken with her redneck-edness (my invented word), it can’t be dismissed. An unaware racist, maybe.
If her vote stemmed from racism rather than strategy (and who isn’t agape with surprise at what seems to be a sudden spike in her game as well as her atypical insistence on a specific bootee this time?) – then the real basis for her vote wasn’t men vs. women in her mind so much as Just Getting Rory Out. She may have just been uncomfortable with a black man in her group; sleeping, peeing, undressing; and his way of expressing himself was very ethnic. She may not have, in her mind, jumped the fat fellows ship after all, and if she isn’t driven out, she may continue to consider herself a guy team girl.
Contra-indications
1- Her confessional, which, if she did have this special reason for wanting Rory out, would be part of her self-deception,
2- Surely her highway crew was integrated. This could affect her either way though, ingraining resentment, or, or if she is perceptive, dissolving it. How perceptive has she shown herself to be?
Disclaimer: I am a Southern Redneck. A peace/love live-and-let-live redneck.

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Cathy the Canadian 599 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-05-04, 11:29 PM (EST)

34. "Is Ami the female Richard Hatch?"

LAST EDITED ON 11-06-04 AT 11:04 AM (EST)
Am I the only one who is reminded of Dique when watching Ami? She's becoming the villan you love to hate - the one with all the power.
You watch, and you can't understand why her followers can't see it.
Others try to point out her power, and it falls on deaf ears
She almost gets voted out, but it never works.
Sound familiar? Or am I reaching here. I don't know, but I do think if she doesn't go next week, she makes it all the way.
edited to add: Let's not forget her cocky arrogance!

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applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-06-04, 08:41 PM (EST)

35. "RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch?"

LAST EDITED ON 11-06-04 AT 08:48 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 11-06-04 AT 08:42 PM (EST)
From what I can remember (and Survivor 1 was quite a long time ago) the main difference between Ami and Richard is that Ami has been edited with a slightly softer side. With Richard, so much of his 'character' was based around the fact that he was gay, he was a b*tch, he was intelligent and he never once showed a weakness. With Ami the fact that she is gay is not an issue, whilst she can be b*tchy (e.g. to Lisa "Why would we tell them?"), she isn't shown to be super-intelligent (that's Eliza's spot) and she shows weaknesses (e.g. crying at the reward challenge).
I can see why, from a game standpoint, Ami is very similar to Richard Hatch (she is self-assured in her alliance, she almost got voted out - I could see this pattern recurring as you said) but from an editing standpoint I think they are quite different. And I don't think she is really arrogant - she is confident ("I expected I would make it this far") - but she isn't arrogant like Richard (who oozes so much arrogance that it is slightly endearing).
I really agree with your, and VS's, belief that if she doesn't go this week (she probably even has until the next week in my books), she will make it very far. She is either an early jury or a very late jury, possibly final 2.
I also think with interpretations of phrases such as "I'm not used to coming second behind a man" and "Yasur will crash and burn when I'm voted off" there is no way to tell exactly which way they're going. Either they come true, or the exact opposite happens. Regardless, when quotes stand out at us like that it is almost certain that they have an implication to the game (I remember Christy in s6 telling her boyfriend that she was F4, only to get blindsided that night at TC), and whether they come true or the opposite occurs you can be assured that it will introduce a sense of irony to the game. I, for one, can never tell if the quote will come true or not. But alot of people (especially you, VS) are very good at determining whether or not it will.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-08-04, 06:31 AM (EST)

36. "RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch?"

Ther is big difference between the two. Dicque was shown as the manipulater. The naked gay guy. He was fun to watch and funny. His dance at winning immunity was hilarious.
Ami is hard core. She did not even want to show the guys all that they learned from the guy who came to the tribe. She invented a reason to vote out Lisa and turned it into a personal issue. The juxtaposition of her and the other women painting each other up like a secret society. The camera constantly focusing on her as she had the cat who ate the canary look on her face.
With her it is not about men vs women, although she says that, yet her vote of Lisa betrays her. Rory seemed to be the consesus pick because the women knew the most about him and percieved him as the biggest threat.
She is one of the most complex characters I have ever seen on this show. She just took over Rory's role as the most compelling character on this show.
DRONES

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-08-04, 09:16 AM (EST)

39. "RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch?"

I had actually equated Rory's schematic more towards Richard Hatch if anyone.
The reason that I don't find Ami along the lines of Richard Hatch is more because of what the tribemates reactions towards her are. Richard Hatch was never really liked by his tribe at all, there was no pretense to him having a hold on any of them. He happened to be incredibly smart though and was able to put a finger on how this game should be played. Ami, on the other hand has a huge huge influence on her tribe; there doesn't appear to be any "bashing" of her (except for the men) We NEVER hear the women discuss her the way the men do whereas Mr. Hatch never really had any positive comments made about him whatsoever.
Ami has a certain Brian flair to her in that Brian's tribe really deferred to him, went to him for advice and so forth.
However, I try very hard to not equate players with past players because then I tend to expect what happened to a previous player happen to the current player.
In any event, I re-watched the episode and editing and story wise this has probably been the most perplexing and fascinating season so far.
Chris: We stay five, we are solid to the end
(This obviously didn't happen, therefore I'm not convinced that Twilla and Julie will convene with the Lopevi men again)
Chris Julie is a bad influence (joking)
Lea: "Twilla ain't going nowhere"
(She did and she may for good)
Jeff at challenge "Chad and Chris - getting their act together" (I think this may come to fruition)
Chris (to Chad) "Both of you have a leg up on me" and in confessional "I'm covering all my basis; I threw my hand out...." "Maybe I am going places I shouldn't"
(Prophecy? Strategies revealed, too many irons in that fire?"
Lea"There is a sense of a male/female fight may happen at the end" (Then a camera shot to Ami splitting the coconut; Twilla and Eliza standing there with Chad watching Ami)
(Again, prophecy for the very end? The male/female final two fight at the end?)
The talking amongst Chris with Twilla, Chad with Twilla; Chad talking about numbers, Twilla telling Chad Ami would be next. Chris stating you have to strategize for Twilla and so forth. All very strange commentary going on
Twilla (Coming to eat the merge food) "I want a nut"
(A little joke perhaps; I always question why seemingly insignificant remarks are left in though)
Chad"Sarge, you are going to take off like a rocket"
(I think this will definitely happen )
Jeff (at challenge) "Julie and Leann struggling"
(Indication of their place in this game?)
Jeff (at challenge about Chad)He's hanging on; not ready to fall off yet; fighting to stay in this"
(This definitely stirred my interest)
Chris to Ami "Chad is a total blast, great listening to him
(Interesting how the young Lopevi men said that Chad was completely bland and boring; their ill will towards Chad raises my suspicious on how Chad does in this game)
Spider Leann painting it on Twilla and Leann laughing saying "Evil" Interestingly a shot of a spider was shown and then Ami was shown.
Ami "I don't see Twilla ever leaving the women's alliance"
Tribal Council Jeff speaking "Two will make it to the final TC (shots of Chad/Ami/Scout) One will win a million dollars (shot of Chris)
(If you go by this, one of Chad/Ami/Scout will get to final two spot and Chris winning the money?)
I found it interesting also that this was the FIRST time Chad and Chris made a final two deal. These two have been together from the get go and only now they shook hands on final two? Not that this means anything but that is a little surprising to me.
I also find it interesting that Chad is always the one referred to when speaking out discussing strategy and what to do. Lea tells Rory to talk to Chad, Chris indicated to Lea early on I'll talk to Chad.
I also noticed how little we see of Ami ever talking about specific alliances she has; it is always just engulfed in talk of the "women" only. Who is she really with IN that group of women.
In terms of what we are seeing for the future, it would appear that the women are certainly intending to keep their promise of an all women alliance continuing and Lea, Chad, Chris have absolutely "no leg to stand on" unless they find that fissure that Rory spoke about. Sometimes it is better to chip away at the bottom to cause the structure to fall over then knock off the top.
Now in terms of story Lea's could easily end this week. He is now in full battle, the war is at its all time high and that is basically what his characterization has been about with no real personal level involved too much
Eliza's name has been peppered throughout the season as she is most definitely one woman that Scout has no issue with getting rid of, Ami appears to be safeguarding her though the reasons for same are still somewhat unknown unless they are simply because she is a female and Ami has her under her wing.
We already know Scout has no problem voting for someone to save someone she cares about.
However, with the women in the majority, Scout should not have to worry about this UNLESS she doesn't want to vote off one of the men that is the target. Scout again, embodies peace and harmony and Lea seems destined to bring war this week. Unless he wins immunity, there doesn't appear to be a reason he wouldn't go.
I know many think Twilla and Julie will go back with the Lopevi men but I'm not sure about this. I have yet to see Twilla indicate to the audience that she will vote a woman off; she only made those gestures when talking to the Lopevi men.
We do know that Lea attempts to make Twilla feel very guilty; is that enough?
The playing thus far has been about getting rid of the strong players. Would Twilla risk voting out Ami? Scout is obviously very bonded with Twilla; it would suggest that Twilla would fare better with the women's group, at the very least she is tight enough with Scout that Scout would vote out Leann over Twilla if Twilla/Scout/Ami/Leann are the final women four as Scout said she only has a "little relationship" with Leanne. Twilla would probably fare better than Leanne or Scout in a challenge as well leaving only Ami to be a contender.
If she were to go back with the men, she would have three challenge enemies as Lea, Chris and Chad could beat her and why would she even think that any of those three would protect her over the other?
At this point, I'm not inclined to believe Twilla would now float over to the men. I think that Julie also has to know the men do not trust her at all. Chad will have NOTHING to do with saving her as he had suspicions about her immediately.
If there is to be a crack in the women's alliance, I'm inclined at this time to think it WON'T be these two women. I am suspicious of two other women right now, Scout and Eliza.
It is very possible that the issues that Scout and Eliza had with each other from the very first week start making headway now. Scout was willing to protect Rory at Eliza's expense and Eliza has issue with Scout sailing her way further in this game. This may be the fissure that the men try to expand upon. I could even suggest further tha Twilla may go for this as well in order to appease the men and also because of her close relationship with Scout.
While I am not sure this will bear any fruit, it could then start the breakdown of the women for the following week. Eliza tends to impulsively make a decision upon hearing she is a target. If a man goes this week (which at this point I'm inclined to believe Lea does) Eliza may opt to try and save herself the following week by jumping in with the men.
This week may ultimately be a lot of smoke but with no real surprise.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-08-04, 11:37 PM (EST)

47. "RE: Is Ami the female Richard Hatch?"

I've just had Eliza on my brain. I don't think much of her as challange competitor, but she is noones lacky. She is a wildcard in voting. I don't view her as sheep to be lead to the slaughter by Ami. She has shown that she will jump ship if it suits her. I wonder if the rest of the women remeber that fact.
You're mention of Scout as another possible crack in the womens alliance is interesting. All you hear from her is about relationships and balance. No talk from her about playing the game or any possible strategy. She appears to be firmly in the womens camp, or is she. It would be darn shocking if she were to flip on the women.
DRONES

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sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-08-04, 09:38 AM (EST)

40. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

What I found interesting in last week's editing was the flip of Sarge from the 'leader' of the fat 5 (i.e. - boring, older, challenge goats) to the new JK wannabe.
Sarge acted like a jealous schoolboy over Julie. He fell for her flirtations hook, line & sinker. I particularly found interesting his comment to the camera that Julie told him he had a nice body and he should show it more. He fell for it and stopped thinking with his big head.
He was very upset at seeing Julie using her body with Ami. I thought the shots of body painting were almost sensual. Apparently, so did Sarge.
In addition, Sarge became the challenge hound. He didn't just win the IN, he pretty much crushed the competition.
I will be very interested to see if Sarge in fact goes this week, having done such a complete reversal from old fat guy to young vital guy. We all know what happens to young vital guys on Vanuatu.
Just my .02.
Sylvester (just call me CAT)

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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
11-08-04, 01:58 PM (EST)

42. "A little insight on Ami"

A belated thank you to VS for the new thread.
I've been reading for some weeks now about how Ami is a man-hater, how she's a control freak, etc. I agree with some who have said she is a very complex character, but I'd like to offer a little humble perspective on Ami. She and I are alike in many ways, and as a member of her community, I think I have a little insight into how she's playing this game and why.
First of all, as a lesbian, Ami is, by her very nature, going to be different than any other player who has been on Survivor. She is not wired like other women, so she cannot play her game like Tina or Kathy or Vecepia or even Jenna. She just cannot do that.
The first real indicator we had of this was when Lisa and Eliza wanted to show off the camp and their learned skills to Bubba and Rory after the switch. Ami was not inclined to show off this way. This led many here at SB to assume she was a man-hater, but I don't agree. As lesbians, we don't feel the need to gain the approval of men the way many straight women do. We don't need their validation because we get validated by our own inner strenth and our friendships/relationships with women. It's not that we hate men, it's that we don't need them. We don't need them to start our fires or gather our wood or cook our food. We don't need them to win races or challenges for us. We get along nicely without them. This does not indicate a hatred for men, but more accurately, an independence from them. Men don't get this; they take it as man-hating. Straight women are confused by it as well because they are conditioned to compete for men's attention and judge their worthiness by how men respond to them.
Ami has rightfully noted how no women's alliance has ever succeeded on Survivor. This has dismayed me time and again as well. Why can't women stick together? Why do they have to freak out, fracture, and allow men to control the game? Because they are used to being supported by men. Notice I didn't say "propped up by" or "dragged along". NO, heterosexual women are used to partnering with men in their lives, which is why a Tina/Colby alliance works: to them, it's a natural fit. Not to Ami, and not to me. A more natural partnering for women like us is a cooperation-based society among women.
Notice that Eliza was the first to indicate she would be willing to vote out a woman. This is typical. She, like Twila, felt the need for "muscle." Whereas Ami and Scout, both lesbians, have strived for a harmonious and cooperative union of women. Lisa was voted out for one of two reasons. Either Ami truly felt that Lisa would betray that unity, or she sympathized with Rory's underdog status and was willing to give him a chance because that's all he was really asking for, a chance. Surely a lesbian used to being on the fringes of society can empathize with a black man who is in the minority. But she figured out pretty quickly that he would go running back to the men, and he did, so she rightfully voted against him.
Is she playing a smart game? I don't know. I think she's too honest for her own good sometimes. She could have allowed Rory to go on believing that he was "in" with Yasur, but she didn't. This is her tragic flaw--she's honest.
Of course she is going to stick with women till the end. It is her nature to do so. She's spent weeks cultivating relationships with disparate women, and she's not going to compromise those relationships simply to advance her own game. She has a point to make, even if she isn't fully aware of it. Women are strong, they are united, and they don't need men to tell them how to play. This worked over at Yasur, but I don't know that it will work now that the tribes have merged. Her inflexibility may be her downfall, but she cannot help it. Just like Jeri couldn't help being a complaining beyotch, Ami cannot help being a woman-centered, wholly independent-from-men confident lesbian. This is who she is. She's not threatened by men, and she doesn't hate them; she simply operates outside of their structure and their society.
Of course, this only works when we can insulate ourselves from male-dominated situations. Guess how easy that is? It's not, so most of us learn how to work with men and respect them as long as we are respected. So far, what man has earned her respect? Bubba, the signal-throwing moron? Rory, the righteous, in-you-face backstabber? What about Sarge, the order-barking control freak? None of these men understands Ami, wants to understand her, or cares about how she operates.
they only really know one thing: Ami is a lesbian and cannot be controlled by them. In addition, she is usurping their dominance with a kinder, more loving version of her own dominance. I can see why this would infuriate Sarge and other militant men. They want to be in control, not let some "dyke" be the leader. They simply cannot comprehend that it isn't personal; she's playing the game the way she lives her life. Don't be too hard on her (unless she does something truly heinous or stupid), just understand that you have no blueprint for understanding her or Scout for that matter. Check out the insider transcripts of Scout and Rory's spat, and you'll get a better indication of what I'm talking about.
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong here, but it may be useful in understanding what motivates Ami and where her eventual downfall may occur. I agree that her "I'm not used to coming in second behind a man" is vital. She may come in second or win, but this statement is key.

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sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-08-04, 02:07 PM (EST)

43. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

LAST EDITED ON 11-08-04 AT 02:09 PM (EST)
NightScribe, that was fascinating, as well as eloquent.
Thank you for taking the time to post it, and I do think it belongs in this thread, as it allows us all a much better understanding of Ami, who absolutely is the central character so far in Survivor 9.
(edited to correct my usual grammar faux pas)
Sylvester (just call me CAT)

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-08-04, 02:15 PM (EST)

44. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

NS: this is the perfect place for your discussion as insight to the characters is key. What I have found (as I mentioned earlier) with may coincide with your thoughts is that while Ami is being portrayed negatively it appears ONLY by the mouths of the men, never the women. This is why, unless she goes next, Ami appeared in it to the end (I keep repeating myself )
Ami herself has never been given the opportunity to really express her worries about going next. She obviously knew she was a target per her vote confessional yet she always appears confident and casual never expressing dismay or scrambling. For whatever reason she feels very secure in her alliance and I have no reason to believe as mentioned that this should change in one episode.
The battle ground that appears to be teasing us between Lea and Ami seems suspiciously like misdirection for Ami to be booted. It is quite possible she does go but I have yet to see a logical reason why she would. If the men do indeed try to target her again they are committing, IMO, a very naive act. Sometimes it is better to work on the underlings than the boss and you may see results.
I agree with you about Ami that this isn't about her hating men as suggested by postings. In fact, I would suspect she would feel more ferocious about a woman supposedly betraying the alliance than an animosity towards the men.
Again, at this time, it would appear that a man, any man (as Ami would indicate) should go next. If something occurs to upset that applecart I would suspect that it is solely someone who is causing the disruption of the harmony and unity that has been put to us from the beginning.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-08-04, 04:11 PM (EST)

46. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

LAST EDITED ON 11-08-04 AT 11:24 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-04 AT 11:22 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 11-08-04 AT 04:13 PM (EST)
I agree, a facinating insight. Very intelligent, full of insight, and apt. I think it's about time we tried to look at life thru the supposed bad person's eyes rather than climbing on the bashers bandwagon. Who knows, there maybe a sympathetic side to Jerri M. Nah, bad example.
But it's hard to reconcile the quote "I can't imagine finishing second to a man" with the image of a woman who just wants to be left alone by men. It indicates to me that she wants to compete, and seems to be telling as to her bias in general and in this game as well.
Not second to Rory, or Sarge, or those guys, but to a man. Any man, not confined to this game. A tip of the iceberg indication (to me) of a deep seated resentment of males combined with a willingness (she volunteered for the show) to compete with men. A manhater. I wonder if the Playboy job was a turning point in her life?

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-09-04, 00:06 AM (EST)

48. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

Very very interesting NS. This has reinforced what I already believe about her strategy from here on out. Her game is very straight forward. She is not being underhanded or sneaky. So far she has been successful.
Her game is limited to only the women, which hurts her chances of being able to adapt if the situation becomes necessary ie sean and vecepia joining papi and liz.
Although the specifics of her alliance are not known, we do know that it only involves the women, as Ami herself has stated several times. We also know that revealed alliances never succeed therefore it behoves us to look at how the womens alliance will fall apart.
DRONES

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-09-04, 07:35 AM (EST)

49. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

LAST EDITED ON 11-09-04 AT 08:41 AM (EST)
Nightscribe: I think you have offered us the key to understanding Ami and Scout. Your insight is fascinating and something that certainly can be applied to more than this show. It definately made me more sympathetic to Ami as a character, whereas before she did seem a bit villianous and vindictive.
I think some straight men could have a very hard time with a beautiful, vuluptuous, strong woman, who is gay.....they may want to flirt with her, and somehow dominate her, but they can not. It must be frustrating and very threatening to their egos as well as to their game strategy. Look how frustrated Rory got when he was trying to "help" out Scout, and Scout just kept refusing it and becoming argumentative over it....and Scout is not even a femme fatale....
All very fascinating and very helpful in understanding the dynamics of the characters in this game. thanks.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-09-04, 08:18 AM (EST)

50. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

>I think straight men could have
>a very hard time with
>a beautiful, vuluptuous, strong woman,
>who is gay.....they may want
>to flirt with her, and
>somehow dominate her, but they
>can not. It must be
>frustrating and very threatening to
>their egos as well as
>to their game strategy.

I think Nite's message was instructive, coming from a source that has special insight. And I appreciate it, even if I may differ with her on a minor point or two.
And I also respect the intelligence, FP, and acuteness of your post(s). You got a great eye and usually great judgment. But I have to point out that you set up a stereotype that is stunning in its simple-mindedness. I have to report that, and this is coming from a source that has as special an insight into how straight men think as our beloved Nitescribe has on women, that that is a mold that not all men fall into.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-09-04, 08:36 AM (EST)

52. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

Perhaps Kingfish I most certainly reacted to reading scribes post in a very blunt way, for that I apologize. I most certainly never intended to imply that all straight men fall into a certain mold of any kind, nor do I ever begin to think that I have all, much less some, men figured out.
I simply wanted to acknowledge that I comprehended what scribe had to say, I found that in Rory's persistance to help, or even to do for Scout, what Scout percieved she could do just fine by herself led to frustration and even a bit of anger on both of their parts. I'm sure that the guys are meeting with some frustration as well in interacting with Ami, and vice versa.
I certainly don't want to open any long debate, or any can of worms and I apologize for any ill thought out statements that I may have made.
Peace, Fp

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-09-04, 09:30 AM (EST)

54. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

No apology necessary, I know you come from a good place. And it wasn't offensive anyway, (just as I hope my post was not offensive), just, to my way of thinking, ill-advised.
Peace.

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pax 56 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
11-16-04, 02:33 AM (EST)

83. "RE: A little insight on Ami"

I see many of Nightscribe's points, and especially see the non-reliance on men in Scout's irritation with Rory. But I also think we need to consider that a female alliance benefits Ami personally, and that it is possible that she's using woman power for her own interests.
ami has shown herself to be a very strong competitor, physically and mentally. who's going to prevent her from going on an immunity run among the women?

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-16-04, 05:31 PM (EST)

101. "totally agree Pax"

>with Rory. But I also
>think we need to consider
>that a female alliance benefits
>Ami personally, and that it
>is possible that she's using
>woman power for her own
>interests.
>
>ami has shown herself to be
>a very strong competitor, physically
>and mentally. who's going to
>prevent her from going on
>an immunity run among the
>women?
....Ami's "I want the women to stick together cause no female alliance ever has" is such a transparent load of boolsh!t it's almost comical. Clearly, Ami is the strongest female in the game, and probably the strongest person period. So, of course she wants all the guys gone cause she knows she can whup any of the women in challenges. So why not mask this ulterior motive with this rah rah woman crap. I would do the exact same thing if I were in her shoes.
On top of that, this crap about needing to look out for women in this game is getting old really fast. Last I checked, women are at a distint advantage when playing Survivor and have been since the second season. How many guys have won Survivor? We've had 9 installments of Survivor, how many have ended with a man being crowned champ? THREE. Doesn't sound like women really need any help in this game if you asked me.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-09-04, 09:06 AM (EST)

53. "RE And what of this week"

I am very excited about this week with the potential for the "pecking order" challenge. This will most certainly reveal who stands where as this season we have had IMO a harder time deducing who exactly stands where with whom. I would expect that whatever this challenge reveals it WILL make a difference from here on out, whether it be this week or next week.
In terms of where the people are going or where they are ending, it seems that Mark Burnett is certainly building toward the shakeup of the women's power structure.
His last episode contained teasers of such with the mingling of the men and the women, the discussion of players who were considered to be vulnerable and snippets of males and females bringing up names they normally would not have.
Again, Lea is central this week since the biggest war is commencing with his troops down in numbers. Ami is his biggest target which may cause Lea to be a victim of his own strategy. When your troops are small it may not be intelligent to try and bring down a large country as stated.
While we are being given an opportunity to think the little troop that could is able to take down the power, I'm not inclined to think this is the case. Again, I think Scout could be very important this week and again her lack of love towards Eliza was brought up. This may be integral to their breaking down and what better way than by Scout showing Eliza where she stands with her at the challenge.
With the teasers of Scout burning Eliza and Eliza telling Twilla that it is personal, there is a sense that Eliza and Scout will see exactly how the other feels. We may see Scout decide she would rather have the three men around. It is not out of her realm to make a decision that keeps her environment to her liking

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Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-09-04, 08:28 AM (EST)

51. "RE: Merger-The Players, The Game, The Editing-Vanuatu"

Id say due to the emergence of camera time for Chad over these past few weeks I would say he is pretty much a lock to go next week. Due to the emergence of Chris's strategy I would say Chris would be next after Chad.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-09-04, 11:01 AM (EST)

55. "EGAD...NOT CHAD!!!"

BITE YOUR TONGUE Oscirus!!!! (although you were THE ONLY ONE that voted for Rory last week on Sherps thread...)
I have a different take (no, really?) on the emergence of Chad from the background in the last few weeks...I think it is just the beginning of his story and Scout will want him around in her "harmonious" environment and protect him over Julie and Eliza.. I see Chad as the last man standing...OMH did I just say that (drops down and laughs like Chris...)

Courtesy of the Amazing Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-12-04, 09:39 AM (EST)

56. "The Estrogen City run amok"

Well if there was any episode that has broken down where the women stand, this certainly helped to assist. What once was a perplexing issue is clearing up moreso. There is no question to me now why Scout was over the top thrilled to see Twilla and why she chose Twilla to be separated from her tribe. Scout and Twilla are indeed close and she trusts her.
Very interesting episode in terms of the traditional pecking order episode. I always like to review who "pecked" who to determine any sort of pattern
Question Number One:
Eliza - Chad
Scout - Lea
Sarge - Scout
(The two chiefs give each other a nod and notice however that Eliza chose Chad. If you look below, Lea was the intended first target but Eliza was not necessarily brought into this plan)
Question Number Two:
Eliza - Chris
Leann - Lea
Chad - Julie
Ami - Lea
Chris - Ami
Julie - Chad
Twila - Chad
Sarge - Julie
Scout - Chris
At this time, Lea and Chad are out of the game
Notice above that Eliza goes for Chris, not Lea. Leann goes immediately for Lea (part of the women's strategy) with Ami giving Lea the final blow. Scout, Ami and Leann I would suspect at least discussed this. Chad obviously played this game based on his bias (it appears) due in fact to what Julie did last TC. Notice he could have chose Twilla but as Julie indicated last night, Julie was definitely under Twilla with the men. The men were all over the place where at least a few of the women had a definite plan. Chris went after the head of the women, Ami, Julie retaliated against Chad and Twilla showed her allegiance still with the women by targeting Chad who was next in line. Then they begin to finish off Chris.
Question Number 3:
Eliza - Chris.
Twila - Eliza.
Scout - Leann.
At this time, Chris is out of the game
Now we get to see the fun begin. Since Chris received his last "hit" from Eliza, who goes next. Twilla aims for Eliza and Scout aims for Leann (both of whom who are not in the sub alliance of Twilla and Scout)
Question Number 4:
Ami - Twila.
Twila - Eliza.
Scout - Eliza.
At this time, Eliza is out of the game
Eliza is clearly the target for Scout and Twilla confirming that Twilla and Scout are a tight duo. Ami goes after Twilla, perhaps a hit for Twilla's targeting Eliza. Eliza is Ami's buffer and appears to keep her close. Eliza is now out and obviously seething at Scout and Twilla
Question Number 5:
Julie - Scout
Twila - Julie
Scout - Ami
At this time Julie is out of the game
Now we are seeing Julie's perception that she is more with the Ami sub alliance by torching Scout. Twilla immediately goes for Julie to get her out and now Scout goes after Ami (Interestingly where is Leann in all this - I recall Dolly saying "Leanne is not even on my radar")
Question Number 6:
Leann - Scout
Scout - Ami
At this time Scout and Ami are out of the game
And both Scout and Ami are eliminated. Leann could have gone after Ami but chose Scout instead confirming the later conversation Leann had about Scout
Question Number 7 and 8:

Leann - Twilla
Leann wins
Consequently then
Lea was torched by Scout, Leann and Ami
Chad was torched by Eliza, Julie and Twilla
Chris was torched by Eliza, Scout and Eliza again.
Eliza was torched by Twilla twice and Scout
Julie was torched by Chad, Lea and Twilla
Ami was torched by Chris and Scout twice
Scout was torched by Lea, Julie, Leann
Twilla was torched by Ami and Leann twice
Leann was torched by Scout
This always is helpful in seeing who presumably is viewed as non threatening, who is viewed as potential rivals and so forth. Mind you as the numbers dwindle, the pecking order is not as significant because obviously there are less people to choose from. But there is a pattern here:
Lea was obviously targeted right away then Chad. The women's own pecking order of the men
Eliza is obviously not highly regarded by Scout or Twilla
Julie's torches seems more inclined to be from people who had more of a personal issue
Ami obviously was torched by Chris (who is fully aware of the leader of the women) and Scout which was eye raising however her main goal was torching Eliza and Leann as was Twilla and it appears also that Twilla and Scout were then the targets of the Ami mini alliance.
This is where I question how deceiving next week may be
We see Scout speaking with Twilla and Julie next week. I don't believe Julie will go in their direction. Julie in this challenge chose Scout to torch first. I am questioning Julie's sincerity in speaking with Scout and Twilla. I think therefore we need to question whether the information put to us next week is valid.
Ami indicates she is not trusting of all the women; I suspect those women are Scout and Twilla only whereas Ami, Leann, Eliza and Julie may still be joined. Chris obviously has started his quest and did not speak with Chad since now it is every man for himself Chad clearly voted for someone based on his dislike rather than playing the game and this is what is the most disconcerting to me.
emydi I'm sorry to say this does not bode well for Chad. He is obviously second on the "pecking order" and Ami's plan has constantly been told to us the men are all to go. Chad, therefore is more than likely the next target of Ami, Eliza, Leann and Julie However the women are heading for some issues and Eliza would more than likely try to rally agains Scout. The problem here is that Eliza is not the leader.
Twice, Eliza has gone to Ami about Scout and both times, Ami was noncommittal.
I do not believe Ami's story is finished yet. Going back to her key quote I'm not used to being put second behind a man leads me to believe that if she is not the final two woman losing to a man then this prophecy will only pay off with one man left in the game and the vote comes down to her being booted instead of that man. Ami's editing was done for a purpose. Again I go back to how the players really think of her. She has been targeted by the men but deferred to by the women. She has never expressed real vulnerability (until next week) This leads me to believe that not until next week any woman considered voting her off or rather anyone in her alliance off.
Our view of Ami has always been from the outside looking in. Her editing took a turn where the audience doesn't really like her but why? What has she really done to be disliked? Her stance that she wants all women at the end. Sounds reasonable in a game that men frequently can dominate. Her smirks at key times. Appears to be careful editing. My observation on Ami is that Mark Burnett is portraying her in a way that the world wants to see her fail. This obviously doesn't bode well with her success at the end. It appears he is trying too hard to make Ami the villian when I don't necessarily believe she is. One must create a villian where there may be none and Ami is such a strong leader he has the tools to manipulate us.
Ami alas will finish second behind a man but I don't think it will be at the final vote but rather when there is one man left in the game.
I went back to the first episode and symbolically found something of interest (if you subscribe to that type of thing )
The two people who noticeably lost their balance were Scout and Chris, Scout upon getting to camp and Chris at the challenge. Ironically also these two were in competition for the end of the balance beam portion where Chris fell repeatedly and Scout made it across. If there is to be a male and female at the end, those two had issues of balance in the first episode but apparently regained quite a bit of it through the season.
Some other observations:
The "fifth" issue brought up again where Leann stated she didn't mind Scout being fifth. So does Julie or Scout leave at five?
The volcano has always shown us the mood of the show and I believe always is in the first part of the show. This episode I distinctly recall not seeing much of a volcano EXCEPT the dormant one. Calm before the storm
Chris If you want to survive, you have got to please them
(Chris's adaptibility has now kicked into high gear) Note also in the first episode Jeff's typical commentary about learning to adapt, the camera landed on Chris
Jeff Individual immunity can get you to the end Frankly that comment is not typical Jeff commentary IMO. This raised an eyebrow that someone who needs it will get it - don't count out Ami as the next immunity winner Couple that with:
Leann"I'll win all the rewards and you win all the immunities." (to Ami)
As of now I see Ami, Eliza, Leann and Julie staying together. Scout and Twilla may think they have Julie but I don't believe this. Chris is going to drive straight to Scout which has already been laid out since they merged as the Insider indicated that Scout had talked with Chris. Chad it seems is the next on the Ami list and Eliza perhaps on the other list whether it be because Ami wins immunity or Scout just can't go there is uncertain to me. Chad voting for his purposes last night does not strike me well either and while Chris mainly wrote Lea's name down as a "sign" to the women rather than actually voting for Lea, would he do the same to Chad?
The balancing issue is coming down the pike and re-watching Scout and Chris competing for balance was interesting. KO I'm sure you like these turn of events!

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forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
11-12-04, 10:24 AM (EST)

57. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

I just wanted to say: thank you for such an outstanding post!
forehead

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-12-04, 10:42 AM (EST)

58. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

I do like this turn of events as I believe that Chris keeps getting edited like the one guy that can make it through to the end. I posted the following in the new alliances thread earlier:
I think that Scout and Eliza will be able to put differences aside and work together. (heck even Sandra knew she needed to align with Johnny Fairplay until she could make her move and screw him over.
The power 3 will be Scout, Eliza, and Chris, they will have pawns Twila and Chad with them. Julie, Leann, and Ami are now the odd ones out.
Julie, Ami, Leann, then Twila, Chad all get booted, possibly in that order, and that leaves the trio as the final 3.
Eliza wins the final endurance challenge vs challenge goats Scout and Chris, and knowing that she can't beat Scout in the finals will take Chris.
Chris will get the votes from Twila, Chad, Scout, and Sarge
Eliza will get the votes from Leann, Julie, and Ami
Therefore Chris' comment tonight of "Scout is going to burn Eliza" will be an ironic yet true statement, as it will be Scouts vote the difference of a million bucks.
Thanks for the post and update VS, you rock and your info is always inspiring!

2004 A S S Trivia Champ

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-12-04, 11:19 AM (EST)

59. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

Awesome observations, VS! Great summation of the turn of events! I don't know KO, at this point, at face value, I'd say that Eliza will stay with the Julie/Ami/Leanne group and that Scout/Twila/Chad/Chris will wind up being the other.
I hold out great hope for Chris as well and am routing for him all the way...now that Sarge is gone! Definately see Chad as low man on the totem pole for the whole group and for the Scout/Twila/Chris group as well.
At the end of the show I too felt as though showing Ami at the end of the previews noting that she does'nt quite trust the ladies anymore makes the average viewer think, aha, she's next...yet I distinctly thought it was our good friend, misdirection! My early boot choice for next weeks show is Chad...sure wish Scout would get it though! We'll see what develops throughout the week!

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-12-04, 03:14 PM (EST)

60. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

LAST EDITED ON 11-12-04 AT 03:15 PM (EST)
Great summary VS. I wasn't able to watch last night and screwed up recording so I'm having a friend send me the tape, which I probably won't get until Wed or Thurs of next week ughh.
Without watching the episode and reading the East Coast spoiler thread and your post I was able to get a handle on what went down.
This was your typical pagonging episode. What made it important was the torch snuffing challenge. Your discription of this important event eased my mind about not being able to watch that show until next week.
"My observation on Ami is that Mark Burnett is portraying her in a way that the world wants to see her fail. This obviously doesn't bode well with her success at the end. It appears he is trying too hard to make Ami the villian when I don't necessarily believe she is. One must create a villian where there may be none and Ami is such a strong leader he has the tools to manipulate us."
This is especially important in light of Jeff's comments about the person who is the villian, portrayed by MB, and that person being surprised. I doubt Ami would see herself as a villian and her play up to this point has been anything but villianous IMHO. MB is just framing it that way through editing. MB never goes out of his way to portray the winner as villianous, especially when that person is not viewed initial that way.
I want to pose a hypothosis about the UTR battle going on between Scout and Ami. Scout, I think, knows the best way to take Ami down is to chip at her base of Eliza and Leann. She knows that a direct frontal assault on Ami is not possible without Ami catching wind of it. Therefore, she goes after the more plausable target of Eliza. We know that Eliza is the only person who has even mentioned Scout as a potential boot candidate. They don't like each other and the torch snuff challenge shows just how much. This is a perfect cover for Scout to chip at Ami's base without directly going after her. Scout is all about balance and harmony. Eliza is upsetting that balance and harmony. I don't have any solid evidence, just a though to keep in mind.
Your description of Chad in this episode is upsetting in that I was hoping for more from him.
6 women vs 2 guys and if the women stick to their plan it will be all women in the final six, or is that just Ami's wish? MB is going to have to stop the pagonging now or this will get very boring. A six women cat fight is only enjoyable when they are wearing bikinis in jello lol
DRONES

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-12-04, 03:32 PM (EST)

61. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

Scout, I think, knows the best way to take Ami down is to chip at her base of Eliza and Leann. She knows that a direct frontal assault on Ami is not possible without Ami catching wind of it.
I think that the men have also figured out that they can't target Ami yet because she still has control over too many of the women.

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
11-12-04, 04:23 PM (EST)

62. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

I agree with both you, Drones, and VS. Ami seems to be the one portrayed as a villain and certainly doesn't see herself as such. That said, wouldn't you want to keep the villain around as long as possible? That is, I can't imagine Ami being ousted next week because then you would not have a villain anymore. Also, it would be an interesting match-up to pit the two masterminds (or schemers/controllers) so far Ami and Chris against each other.
There are certainly no shortage of Ami-haters (if that isn't too strong a word) over on Bashers.
Personally, I feel that had Ami been a man, she would be viewed as ruthless but shrewd and there would be an appreciation for what kind of game she is playing. Yet I don't often see that here. I think she is playing the game quite well. Even as well as Porno Brian. She has created a group that is loyal to her without seeming to be (by her followers) to be overly controlling. However, in S5, they were all completely sheep. Here, at least, it looks like Scout has a head on her shoulders and rebels when she thinks is the right time. Next Thursday's episode will reveal whether she is successful.
Let me just leave with this. The family visit spoiler had Lea, Eliza and Scout receiving visits and then Sera confirmed that these family members did not, in fact, go to Vanuatu. Are these the first 3 jury boots? It could certainly be. For that, I'm leaning toward an Eliza or Scout boot this week.

©Forged by RollDdice.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-12-04, 04:28 PM (EST)

63. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

Very instructive and helpful, a lot to digest and disagree with - I mean, discuss. Thanks again.
And, this isn't apropos of anything spoiler wise, BUT, when will there be someone who will instruct their alliance to;
1. After merge, maintain some discretion, provide subtle and varying and false alliance indications, offer obviously opposed group members doubt as to leaders, biases, etc., basically give the other people the chance to misguess alliances? There are some that seem to try and to this, at least to an extent. Normally, this is only necessary for the first two weeks after merge. Then one pre merge alliance may be able to dominate.
2. (and the motivation for this rant) Disguise any pecking order contests to keep lower pecking order members from resenting their station in life. Let the fourth-fifth member think they are higher. This is one contest you don't want to win, can't they see that?
3. Really learn to recognize the best strategic moves. A million bucks should be motivation enough to concentrate on strategic moves rather than voting off the person you don't like. I know that there have some pretty good moves on a week to week (our weeks) basis - there are a number of example of this - and some plan long range planning with some pretty dopy plans i.e. ROMBER (that was a dopy plan that worked but should have been nipped in the bud)

OK Rant over. Vented. Defused. Beck to spec/spoil (HAH! Spoiling! I haven't guessed a bootee, IC or IR winner in two weeks except Rory, and I talked myself out him).
ONE Last Thought - maybe we should put together a Survivors' Survival Handbook, just for us time-wasting cyberspace lurkers in case one of us gets selected.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-12-04, 04:49 PM (EST)

64. "Well, CRAP....."

I may have to get ready for a heartbreak soon...
I really have more questions than answers from last nite's episode. But I will try to lay out some of my thoughts (I'd like to see the insider for what they all said when voting...we only heard Chris...was Chad's vote for Julie like Scout's vote for Rory when Lisa was ousted...did he know that Sarge was going but couldn't bring himself to write his name down..so he just put the person he disliked the most or was he totally out of the loop???)
I knew that Twila/Scout was a sub alliance before this so that was not too surprising. Also not surprising that T/S did not like Eliza.
The first surprise for me (for a split second) was when Leann picked Julie for her partner. I realized then she wanted to pick her brain as the person that was gone from camp and not really "with" them like Eliza. She didn't pick Twila bc Leann knows Twila is with Scout.
Now at the reward Leann talks of a F4 with Julie and says she doesn't have any problem with putting Scout out and Julie in...but they never actually mention the other two members of the F4. We KNOW one is Ami, but is the other one Eliza or Twila? My belief is it is Eliza. (esp. now that Twila said what she did at TC)
So after last nite there are two factions of 2 vying for the other 4.
Chris/Chad the MEN v Leann/Ami the WOMEN
LA seem to have set their eyes on J/E with Ami taking care of Eliza and Leann taking care of Julie.
But we also have the Twila/Julie suballiance? from when they were at Lopevi with the men. But Sarge "outed" Julie before TC to Twila and AT TC to everyone else.
In the promos Scout is seen talking to Twila and Julie about voting with the men...IMO this is the smartest way for Twila and Scout to go use Julie to get a 5-3 ouster of the other 3 women with Ami or Eliza going in Ep 10, Leann going in Ep. 11 (Snewswer) and the other of Ami/Eliza going in Ep. 12. Then they have a 3-2 majority over the men (STAN explains this very well in the Snewsah thread). Plua T/S will have a 2-1 adv. over Julie and the only way Julie goes to F2 is if she wins F3 challenge. But my guess is that Scout would target Julie at F4 vote and take the remaining man to F3 with her and Twila (esp. if that man is Chad.)
Scout is not going to go to L/A to do this because they are too set in their ways and she WILL NOT GO TO ELIZA..in last nite's ep. she said she was through (and had been through) with Eliza since Day 2. I do not think Scout will go to Eliza about anything now and vice versa. Sorry Katie, I do not think this will happen. Scout strives for harmony and she does not want Eliza in her "world" any longer.
Twila may talk to Scout privately about going after Ami..it appears Twila is voting for who she believes are immunity threats...the next one would be Ami. Sarge was first (but he won immunity) so they had to get Rory. As soon as Sarge did not win II she was afraid not to vote for him. So Twila may push Scout and CC hard for an Ami boot. But the three of them--CCS-- know that it is too soon...so they want to push for an Eliza boot.
IMO, Eliza is not the wild card JULIE is. Julie has a connection with Eliza and Twila and Leann. However, she has to think she may be the 5th person in a TSCCJ F5. But she is also Fourth in a F4 JALE becase ALE have been together The ENTIRE time. Julie has to get rid of a guy(Chad) or someone just like her--Eliza/Leann-- to become more important.
However, Twila is not so sure of Julie now, so she will be hesitant. I tend to agree with BR (see alliance thread) that she may waffle TOO MUCH next ep. and she may fall victim by all (except Scout) to ouster vote ala Christy--possibly, a 6-2 Twila/Eliza vote...
As you can see I AM NOT IN THE TWILA/CHRIS F2 camp. Too many castoffs have said Chris has a good chance and now Sarge said Twila has what it takes...ain't gonna happen...imo (and BR's too!!!)
Another scenario is that SCOUT is targeted after Julie runs back to A/L/E about what Scout is planning...The JALE F4 also have the 4-2 thing going over the guys..so they can afford to get T/S before going after CC.
Or the women, including Twila could talk about all of this and then decide to just continue the pagonging like the Rory and Sarge boots and MY CHAD GOES next week. But I'm hoping that Chad becomes COLBYMAN and goes on a challenge run. That is the only way Chad will make it much longer (**sniff** **sniff** --it's okay...I'll be alright) He has the most upper body strength of the Survivors left and his leg will not be that much of a hindrance in the pole climbing challenge.
So right now, I do not think Ami goes next ep.--I too think they need to chip away at her base first and her story is not done--
My possibilities are a Chad/Twila/Scout boot; but I need more time.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-04, 02:34 PM (EST)

65. "RE: Well, CRAP....."

Peeps have proposed that Chad may be at a disadvantage in the IC this week, e, but I think that his prosthetic leg may just work in his favor. You are right, he has tremendous upper body strength, more so than anyone else out there, and if he could place most of his weight on the prosthetic foot than he could win it....his prosthetic leg won't hurt, no pain receptors, so if he gets a good foot hold with the sneaker on the prosthetic foot, I'd bet he may be able to outlast.
Just wanted to give you a little hope!

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-04, 02:48 PM (EST)

66. "RE: Well, CRAP....."

>Scout is not going to go to L/A to do this
>because they are too set in their ways and she
>WILL NOT GO TO ELIZA..in last nite's ep. she said
>she was through (and had been through) with Eliza since
>Day 2. I do not think Scout will go to
>Eliza about anything now and vice versa.
I also think that Scout likely will not go to Eliza about anything, but there's that nagging doubt in the back of my head because we know that Scout (and Eliza, too) is a lot smarter than she appears and we've seen an awful lot of comments from Scout about her feelings towards Eliza that it makes me wonder if there's some foreshadowing that something WILL happen between the two of them to survive in the game?
I'm reminded of Sandra and Jonny Fairplay constantly butting heads, screaming at each other and professing their hate, yet they went along on some votes down the stretch to get themselves into the final three.

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sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-04, 03:33 PM (EST)

67. "If Scout is as smart as I think she is...."

"I also think that Scout likely will not go to Eliza about anything, but there's that nagging doubt in the back of my head because we know that Scout (and Eliza, too) is a lot smarter than she appears and we've seen an awful lot of comments from Scout about her feelings towards Eliza that it makes me wonder if there's some foreshadowing that something WILL happen between the two of them to survive in the game?"
I think Scout is perhaps the smartest survivor on Vanuatu, and that we just don't get too see much of her strategy. We have preview/promo proof of Scout hooking up with the men next week. Twila seems to be Scout's closest ally, and I've stated many times my belief that Scout/Twila/Chad/Chris are the new final 4 alliance.
What if Scout's speech to Julie & Twila & Leann, seen in night vision on the preview is the night of the RC when the other 4 are at reward in the village? There are no shots of the RC 4 at the same time, which seem to be the same night as the 'terrible storm'. What if Scout is setting up a ruse? Twila would be in on the ruse of course, but perhaps the plan is to make Leann & Julie believe that Eliza is the target?
Scout & Twila both know how ruthless Ami is when she feels threatened. They wouldn't want Ami to know she is the real target. Eliza would be the best possible ruse, as everyone in camp seems to be irritated by her. Perhaps they are trying to split the women's vote to ensure that their 4 Ami votes send Ami packing.
The worst that could happen is a tie, with 4 votes for Ami and four votes against whoever Ami & company choose to target. If the Eliza ruse worked, even with one person *cough*julie*cough*
voting Eliza, Ami is gone.
Flower & Emydi, I'm solidly in the 'I love Chad' camp too, lol, and I agree with Flower about Chad having an excellent chance in the IC. I think the close-ups of Chad's face could be shots of his winning smile, with the 2nd pic a look of relaxation when he realizes he can finally let go and get down. I have my fingers crossed!
Sylvester (just call me CAT)

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-04, 04:24 PM (EST)

68. "RE: If Scout is as smart as I think she is...."

An EXCELLENT chance?
OK, this is about spoiling, not shooting the moon.
With the properly designed prosthetic he certainly would have an advantage. However with a general purpose top of the line (which his seems to be) lower leg designed for standing, walking, running, he‘s got to be at a disadvantage pole climbing and clinging. It’s probably more productive to analyze him into a non-target this week, thus not needing an IC.
(Don't mind me, just grumpy this afternoon).

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
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11-13-04, 06:13 PM (EST)

69. "RE: The Estrogen City run amok"

LAST EDITED ON 11-13-04 AT 06:20 PM (EST)
Great breakdown of the last episode, VS! You've really helped make a lot of hazy things come out clearer and it's gradually becoming easier to see how the rest of the game will play out.

>emydi I'm sorry to say this does not bode well for
>Chad. He is obviously second on the "pecking order"
>and Ami's plan has constantly been told to us the
>men are all to go. Chad, therefore is more
>than likely the next target of Ami, Eliza, Leann and
>Julie
There's another reason why I think Chad is not going to be around too much longer in the game -- or definitely the next man to go before Chris. Look at Chad at each of the last few TCs (excepting this past one where Sarge went)... his expression has been one of bewilderment for the most part, which is not something you'd expect from someone with his finger on the pulse of the game. In other words, he's kinda clueless to playing the game. He'll be gone as soon as he's served his purpose to at least 2 or 3 of the ladies -- which could be in the next episode or in the final 4 or 5.

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-04, 03:55 AM (EST)

70. "How do we get to Leann in EP11?"

VS: I don't normally post much in this thread, because you do such an incredible job, and there's not usually too much to add.
I wrote up my notes today and was pleased to find that we made many of the same observations, although we appear to have arrived at different conclusions...
Last week, while Leann and Julie were off by themselves on the reward picnic, Leann described her alliance with the other two women (Ami and Eliza), with the unspoken fourth being Scout. Julie made her play to take Scout’s place in the foursome and Leann acknowledged the possibility.
Later, back at camp, we saw Eliza complaining to Ami about Scout going to the men. This appeared to confirm that Eliza was number three in the alliance with Ami and Leann. We were also shown Scout’s reaction to the new bond forming between Julie and Leann, and heard her questioning the security of her position in the women’s alliance.
At Tribal Council JP’s last comment was interesting. It was a comment that could have been edited out, but was left in for some reason…”Talk all you want about who has the numbers advantage, but there is one wild card you can always count on…Individual Immunity…and that can get you all the way to the end.” Does someone go on an Immunity run? Is it Ami?
In the previews for this week, we see Scout talking to Twila and Julie about voting with the men. Ami is also shown explaining that she’s “not real trusting of the ladies”…(probably Scout and Twila).
We know that Scout wants to team up with the men, and we can assume that Twila, who is currently number six in the women’s alliance, would side with Scout if they could get Julie to go along with them.
If Julie decides to stick with Ami, Leann and Eliza, then Twila would probably take her chances with the women and vote off Chad or Chris.

Assuming Snewser’s spoiler is reliable, we know Leann leaves in EP11. What are the scenarios in EP10 that would lead to that result?
If Julie and Twila decide to vote with Leann, Ami, and Eliza to boot Chad or Chris, it wouldn’t matter which way Scout decided to go. That would leave Leann in a secure alliance with Ami, Eliza and Julie; Julie taking Scout’s place in the number four spot. Scout, Twila and the last man would be outnumbered four to three in EP11. In that scenario Leann would be safe in EP11, so we can conclude that something else must happen in EP10 that leads to Leann’s vulnerability in EP11,
One Survivor is torn between joining a new alliance or thwarting an existing one. A tribemate exploits this indecision to work a plan.
As we saw during the reward picnic, Julie and Leann discussed the dynamics of the womens alliance. Julie saw this as an opportunity to attempt "thwarting an existing one", by knocking Scout out of the number four spot and taking her place.
Julie's other option is "joining a new alliance" with Twila, Chad and Chris. She is "torn between" these two options.
Scout exploits Julie's indecision and "works a plan" to get the men to vote with them, giving Scout, Twila, Julie Chad and Chris the upper hand.
Julie probably comes to the realization that being number four in an alliance with Ami, Leann and Eliza is less desireable that being number three in an alliance with Scout and Twila, Her chances of winning immunity are much better with Scout and Twila, than going against Ami.
If the three women (Scout, Twila and Julie) team up with the men (Chad and Chris) they have a 5-3 advantage and can eliminate Eliza, Ami and Leann. At that point they still have a 3-2 advantage over the two remaining men and are guaranteed a trip to the Final 4.
In this scenario, Scout, Twila, Julie, Chad and Chris would probably target Ami or Eliza first. If Ami were to win immunity again (as suggested by JP’s final comment at TC last week), then Scout would not hesitate to target Eliza, and no one else would object. Next week Ami could win immunity again and Leann would be next to go.
Before Tribal Council, one Survivor makes a last-ditch effort to sway a tribemate. Will it work?"
Ami and Eliza would be the two likely targets of the new alliance. If Ami wins Immunity again (as foreshadowed by JP's tribal council comment)Eliza would be the next in line. She would have to "make a last ditch effort to sway her tribemate" (Julie) to vote with the women instead of Scout and the new alliance. "Will it work?" Probably not, and Eliza will get to spend time on the Jury with Sarge, who has nothing but good things to say about her now.

The bottom line is that Leann going in EP11 only makes sense if Julie, Twila and Scout team up with the men for the next few episodes. This scenario also fits with the reports of the original alliances falling apart after the merge. It also explains the rumors of Chris’s weight loss and the rumor that an older woman makes it to the final four.

Krautboy

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sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-15-04, 10:05 AM (EST)

72. "RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11?"

KB, as always I enjoyed your insight, and agree that the assumption that Leann goes in Ep. 11 allows us an unusual opportunity to look at Ep. 10 scenarios.
I have differing thoughts though on a few of your conclusions.
"Last week, while Leann and Julie were off by themselves on the reward picnic, Leann described her alliance with the other two women (Ami and Eliza), with the unspoken fourth being Scout. Julie made her play to take Scout’s place in the foursome and Leann acknowledged the possibility."
KB, I have rewatched that scene a few times, and came to the conclusion that the unspoken 4th was Twila. The original burly girl alliance was Ami/Leann/Twila/Scout. Eliza was a bowhead, as was Julie. Ami in a recent confessional mentioned that she didn't think Twila especially ever left the girl's alliance. Leann discussed how if Julie came in and Scout went to 5th, the final 4 would then all be deserving. This came after the mini-trash of Eliza who doesn't do anything. Twila was the only woman not mentioned, and due to her life circumstances and work ethic, have to think the deserving comment refers to her. Therefore, I think Leann thinks the new final 4 is Ami/Leann/Twila/Julie.
"Later, back at camp, we saw Eliza complaining to Ami about Scout going to the men. This appeared to confirm that Eliza was number three in the alliance with Ami and Leann."
I think Eliza feels comfortable complaining to Ami about Scout, but as noted above, think Eliza is low woman on everyone's totem pole. In past episodes, Eliza being worthless/expendable/irritating, etc. has been verbalized by Leann, Julie, Twila & Scout. In Ep. 6 Ami told Scout she wouldn't vote for Liza, but perhaps just because she had decided Lisa's boot was priority.
"At Tribal Council JP’s last comment was interesting. It was a comment that could have been edited out, but was left in for some reason…”Talk all you want about who has the numbers advantage, but there is one wild card you can always count on…Individual Immunity…and that can get you all the way to the end.” Does someone go on an Immunity run? Is it Ami?"
I agree it was an interesting comment, but I thought perhaps it was left in because someone shown to be in danger goes on an immunity run. So far, Ami's been the protected Queen. Perhaps Chad? or Eliza? or Chris, the 'numbers' man? Chris is the least in danger of the 3 I think, because of possible multiple F2 pacts, the Insider quote from Scout that she "loves the hell out of Chris", and his status as a non-threat in challenges. (I very much noticed Julie's sly inclusion of Chris over Scout in her talk with Leann)
One Survivor is torn between joining a new alliance or thwarting an existing one. A tribemate exploits this indecision to work a plan.
I think that the new alliance has to be Chad/Chris/Scout, or Chad/Chris/Scout/Twila. If it's the former, Twila must be the indecisive one. If it's the latter, the indecisive one has to be either Eliza or Julie (leaning heavily towards Eliza). 'Thwarting' in this instance I'd think means dooming, which points to the latter scenario. 5-3 would leave Ami/Leann/Julie (or Eliza) to be the next 3 boots.
Which brings us back to examining what must happen in Ep. 10 to lead to a Leann boot in Ep. 11. If the torn survivor is Eliza, and she jumps to the new 'Final 5', Ami/Leann/Julie are going down.
Sylvester (just call me CAT)

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-04, 10:23 AM (EST)

73. "RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11?"

Which brings us back to examining what must happen in Ep. 10 to lead to a Leann boot in Ep. 11. If the torn survivor is Eliza, and she jumps to the new 'Final 5', Ami/Leann/Julie are going down.
I agree Cat, 100%. Starting with Julie this week.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-04, 10:54 AM (EST)

74. "RE: How do we get to Leann in EP11?"

Ok I thought about this all weekend and Julie is emerging for me too, katie!!...T/S/C/C vote for Julie and either Julie goes after Eliza and thus it's a 4-3-1 (Julie-Chad-Eliza) vote or Eliza comes over and votes 5-3 (Julie-Chad)

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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
11-15-04, 11:34 AM (EST)

76. "Eliza takes Julies place in the "new alliance"?"

Scout is shown approaching Twila and Julie about getting the guys to vote with them, so are you thinking that Julie is "torn" and Eliza "exploits the indecision" by stepping in to take her place with Scout and Twila and the guys?
The would it be Julie who makes the "last ditch effort" to have Eliza come back with her Leann and Ami?
Julie in staed of Eliza is possible I suppose, but the likelihood of Scout and Eliza joining forces seemed a bit remote...has all the negative editing about Eliza and Scout been misdirection leading up to this surprise Julie boot?
Julie or Eliza? Could be either one I guess...

Krautboy

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-15-04, 12:04 PM (EST)

77. "RE: Eliza takes Julies place in the "new alliance"?"

The editing says Julie...no story for forever...and Eliza is a narrator...and I really do think she gets a family visit from a parent (see Griffe's post over in Sucks)

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applejack93 288 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-04, 07:09 AM (EST)

71. "Julie - ???"

LAST EDITED ON 11-15-04 AT 07:10 AM (EST)
VS I would like to know your thoughts on the editing anomaly that is julie. I have heard you say before that she has no story. But I am now confused as she seems to be such an important part to the game - she really has been making some crucial decisions. Could it be that someone who is now so prolific still has no story? I honestly can't find any story of worth.
She is shown to be quite strategic ("hey, I've got it in the bag" and the whole Leanne thing etc.)- we have watched her strategy develop as the game has. But is that really enough to be considered a story? In the past I have tried to draw comparisons between her and Zoe from Marquesas or Nick from Outback - as all of them seem to have no story. Yet she is too featured to be considered like them, this coupled with the fact that she has now outlasted most non-story survivors (all other non-story survivors have been voted out within the first ten boots) has me totally perplexed as to where she fits in to the whole equation.
Try as I might I can't find a story for her, although I can find a character. She is definitely the 'adorable yet game-smart' girl ala Neleh and Elisabeth, but unlike them she has no plot to go with the character. She is a novel with detailed character descriptions but no action.
But it is her truly perplexing edit that is what makes her so much fun to watch - I can't even try to predict what is going on next.
What are everybody else's thoughts on her? Is she really the editing phenomena I believe, or am I missing something crucial?

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
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11-15-04, 11:28 AM (EST)

75. "RE: Julie - ???"

LAST EDITED ON 11-15-04 AT 01:40 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 11-15-04 AT 12:39 PM (EST)

Wow! I just love coming back in here and seeing what everyone has to say. Pardon me as I am about to become longwinded again
FP, sylvester, kingfishk, BR, emdyi, drones, KO (my apologies to those I missed but I read every word and my head has now come off ) great observations on how you see where everyone is heading or NOT heading
forehead, thank you kindly dear
pepe, I agree Chad unfortunately has not fleshed out the way I hoped. I was willing to concede until merger but his vote last week has sealed his fate with me. That signified to me that he is no longer playing this game and has moved to emotion play which is never a good sign. The women are still dominating the men on paper and while Chris sees this and moves accordingly, Chad voted based on a lie instead of seeing that a different vote could have helped him.
Unfortunately this is not boding well for him and I think that he is leaving our island. Let’s not forget the men are still the MAIN goal of Ami’s plan and Ami, for all intents and purposes is still leading the way. Due to this, I would suggest that one of the men HAVE to win immunity and since I fail to see where Chad fits anymore, Chris could be our immunity winner but (see below)
The teasers designed for us this week show upheaval is beginning among the women. Scout against Ami? Scout against Eliza? Julie alliance making with Leanne? Chris and/or Chad making a move again with a woman/women. Ami in danger, Eliza in danger, Scout in danger and so forth. The waters are very muddy and I have found USUALLY when there is a lot of muck, Mark Burnett is beginning to show us what WILL come but not necessarily that episode but what is coming down the pike
KB, always a pleasure to see you in here and don’t you even think about not posting as I always enjoy bouncing with you lol. I definitely see where you are heading with your thinking. Logically it makes perfect sense. One of the mistakes I have made in the past (which each season I attempt to correct though not always with success) is that when I think things are so logical to do, the players do something illogical because SOMETHING is going on that I am not yet privy to.
Scout’s upcoming words make me suspicious. We know she says “We must get Ami out....” I have found when words are used like this with no completion, it is often misdirection. Grant it, she could be saying Ami has to go, period but I am of the mind she is talking about something that needs to be done but not yet. Ami’s story is not done to me. If she leaves second to a man as per her first episode confessional then only one man will be left. Therefore, if going by story line and editing and character development, Ami should be safe this episode though her future safety is at question.
Scout is speaking with Julie and Twilla while the others are away. However, I just don’t see her feeling compatible with Twilla, who helped oust her lie at the last TC and I don’t see a compatible feeling with her and Scout either. Also, remember, Chris goes on a reward trip with Ami Chris is a smart man; he may utilize this trip to his advantage. Could Ami, Leanne, Eliza have Chris at some point?
I DO, however go back to also to Julie's conversation with Chris and her “final two” pact with him. I also go back to Scout’s obvious dealings with Chris but let’s leave that be for now.
I am of the mind set that Scout will try to get Eliza out and consequently there will be Eliza rallying against Scout. I go back to Scout’s not voting out Ami “she can’t go there” She probably will but not yet, I think Eliza is too important for her to get out hence Scout may say "We have to get Ami out AFTER Eliza." Eliza has been on Scout’s target since the first day; I see no reason for that to change. Ami however has kept Eliza firmly protected and at this point with Scout being bumped down on the list (per Leann though I do not know if Ami is part/parcel with this but Leann has been an avid follower of Ami’s so I will give benefit that Ami has been slowly parting from Scout) I still believe that Scout won't vote Ami at this junction, Eliza is her target.
Therefore, the tightly knit Ami/Leanne/Eliza are one alliance
The Scout/Twilla duo are extremely tight. Chris has already talked with Scout upon merger time per the Insider comments from Scout
Chad is twisting and will look for any avenue to try and survive
Julie is being approached by Scout and Twilla and is party to the Ami alliance
This is where we may part company KB
Now Leann’s leaving is fresh to me as I hadn’t read that yet. Frankly it is of no surprise as she is not, IMO, playing the game but has a wonderful back story of personal growth. She is firmly following Ami. Sometimes one has to bring down the troops before getting to the leader and this may be the case with Leanne.
I am looking at the initial goals for the episode
Julie received a vote from Chad. Julie is in Ami’s circle. Ami wants men gone. I would suspect Chad is next on the boot list per the pecking order
Chris showed his “unity” by voting for Lea and frankly that means nothing to Ami but we know Scout and Twilla have talked to Chris and Julie has made a final two pact with him.
I am looking for this episode to bring out the upcoming battle between the women. Ami’s “we are going to have start voting out women” strikes me as foreshadowing.
Logically Julie would fare better by going the way of Twilla and Scout but for Ami to make this statement, I would suspect that she LEARNS of something for her to feel that way. Who would she learn this from. It couldn’t be Scout if Scout is suggesting Ami and it wouldn’t be Twilla either then. Eliza and Leann I would hope would not be privy to this discussion since they are with Ami.
Therefore, I question if Julie is the one to tell Ami what is going on. Chris or Chad could be as well but Ami’s goal has been to get rid of the men. Getting rid of Scout now goes in direct contradiction to what her goal has been the entire time and she certainly doesn’t have to worry about Scout winning immunity nor worry about Scout having numbers on her. She will still want to whittle away the men and then she could worry about Scout or Twilla since she would feel she has the numbers on her side.
Although your scenario for Julie is the most logical route for her to go, illogical moves usually happen when merger times comes. There is also always a fear of who can win individual immunity and for what that is worth, Chris and Chad are men and physically may be stronger. What happens if Julie is with T/S/C/C and C/C keep winning individual immunity? Julie would assume that C/C would try to get the women gone and probably her first. She may also think the S/T would try to get rid of the men if they can but then boot her. With L/A/E she has a good chance of winning individual immunities and possibly inserting herself at least to the final three spot as Leann, at a final four situation may try to vote out Eliza with Julie.
As far as the rumors of Chris and an older woman, I wasn’t aware of that information. But I would suggest that if another man leaves this week which has been the main focus, Leann could go the following week if Julie regroups with Chris, Scout and Twilla since I haven’t forgotten Julie’s conversation with Chris.
As long as Chris knows he isn’t the next male target he will plan accordingly to the next Tribal Council should he not win II. Based on this challenge of endurance hanging, I don't see Chad, Leanne, Scout winning whatsoever. Holding up your own weight is very debilitating and I would suggest that Julie and Eliza would be the ones who may win this immunity.But being that a male is a target, Chris could win this as well
Ami may in fact win the FOLLOWING II as her competition physically is slowly dwindling. If she does win this CRUCIAL immunity since I believe the women's battle will start in earnest this week but not result in a woman going, those who are now focusing their attention on her will have to go after someone else; her loyal comrade, Leanne. Chris/Scout/Twilla would vote for Leanne. Eliza and Ami would vote for Chris perhaps and Chris may then speak with Julie about their final two pact. Would Julie vote against Leanne? She may not even have to. If Ami/Eliza vote Chris and S/T/C vote out Leanne, Julie could enlist a throwaway vote if need be as we have seen this occur since early on this season.
aj my thoughts on Julie are as such: There are those with a backstory, those with a backstory and playing the game and those with just a backstory. Julie has played the game; I have said this but she has no story. Her strategy was to use her feminine wiles and since she was with women, this could not be employed. However I believe that if she was to reach the end, Mark Burnett would have given us something more from her before she hit Lopevi's beach. She was fortunate enough for that to happy and her strategy commenced. Mark Burnett even gave her two episodes of this so he wanted to milk this and more than likely because there was some longevity to her playing. In order for her to get her due because of her longevity we got to see all of Julie not once, but TWICE! I still deem that Julie has NO story but is playing the game.
I usually find where there is more meat to a person and playing the game, Mark Burnett will have fun with it. Therefore, while Julie got to use her strategy and we do see she is doing this within the confines of game playing she has lasted. However in light of the fact that he has only invested in her strategy since her arrival upon Lopevi and that he did NOTHING with her at Yasur, then she isn't the winner. Obviously I could be entirely wrong
Example: Both Twilla and Julie are quite similar in the fact that we know Julie would have wanted to be with men to use her strategy and Twilla was disappointed that she was with all women. Both have similar situations but obviously for different reasons. Throughout their time at Yasur, Twilla was focused on in her awkwardness with women, her confessionals of relating better to men and so forth There was "meat" there. We did not once here from Julie "I wish I had been put with men since I am really good at flirting (and so on) I'm sure in the thousands of hours of tape, she "confessed" to her strategy and perhaps disappointment that she won't be able to get far with the women. Why not? This is probably only a general way for me to show the difference in how Mark Burnett highlights a player's character or strategy.
Therefore, while Julie's "got game" she really doesn't have a story. It seems to have been too long that she is now being shown to have her win the game as compared to the others (except for Leann by the winner and Chad by the men)
Using that particular tool, Chad, though inspirational failed at the game in black and white with Julie's name down and Leann with no game playing has reached her pinnacle of how the island has moved her (almost every episode she is speaking has her discussing what the island has done in her view, how it affects her) She can end her backstory with her enriching reward last week of seeing the whole island from a view from above and spending time right on top of a volcano. I would also at this point suggest Julie Eliza or Chris are potential immunity winners.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-15-04, 08:23 PM (EST)

78. "RE: Julie - ???"

Very nice. I would add that Leanne might be a Vecepia or Sandra type surprise (IMO UTR's), and I think that forming a scenario to fit a Snewser pick is, while maybe a practical thing, also tends to shade the logic.
But no matter, a Chad eviction this week is beginning to make perfect sense. His Julie vote showed him, as VS mentioned, to be out of the loop, and floundering, and with Chris, by far the easiest target. Never a good sign with women on the warpath. No Offense.
There are some caps I haven't seen, but we've been given RC, and we can narrow IC to the chief suspects (Eliza, and JUlie, with Ami, Leanne, and Chris (in that order) as longer shots. OK, MAYBE Chad, I think he would just about have to nail himself to the pole to have a chance. If he can, more power, but he would really screws up the boot pick I think. The odds-on bet would have to be Julie or Eliza, and really, Eliza (the paranoid TC bag bringer toer) should have the motivation. Julie seems more complacent, not good motivation for endurance. Actually, Eliza has shown spoiled kid reactions to some competitions , so who knows, Leanne? Maybe Ami again? Reluctantly, for now, I think Eliza.
Maybe we will see another heroic endurance triumph like Shi-ann. Lots more to work with this week than last,

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-15-04, 09:03 PM (EST)

79. "like I've been saying..."

>But no matter, a Chad eviction
>this week is beginning to
>make perfect sense.
...beginning??? I've been telling you that since about an hour after the show on Thursday
As I posted last week, the STC theory, coupled with the small amount of spoilers we have, definitely supports a Chad boot this week.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-15-04, 11:01 PM (EST)

81. "RE: like I've been saying..."

The STC post in IceCat thread last week?
Re-read it. You didn't mention Chad in reference to STC. OK, I see the smiley face. Nevermind.
Seriously though, according to the web caps Chad does get a upfront mention while the emphasis seems to be Leanne, and Scout. He is Angry/confused, while Chris is happy and hugging Scout. Hard to see what happens later in the show, but it does seem to not be focused on Chad, making him fit the profile. Leanne fits too, and maybe even Scout.
Chad's vote for Julie, the seemingly heavyhanded indication that he is floundering and not in the loop with anyone is the clue this week. And it's not misdirection either, the editors can do a lot, but they can't make him vote for anyone.
So he fits STC profile and with the other clues looks like his boot will be walking. True That.
Why did they just give us the RC? Do they not care? Is this a experiment whereby they are trying to see if they just give us the unambiguous answer to a challenge, how many of will talk ourselves into believing another outcome anyway, citing Misdirection or something else?

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-15-04, 11:35 PM (EST)

82. "right here Kingfish"

...here it is, from my post on 11/13 in teh Winning Quote thread..towards the bottom

..I don't think LeAnn's quote was significant at all, not even close. Maybe if she said it after she LOST the RC or IC then it would be significant, but saying it after she just won something totally takes any significance away.
Also, the "key quote" usually occurs in the first couple of episodes. IMO, the contestant who has qualified the most for this distinction has been Chris. His comment in Ep1 about "playing this game the moment he hit the beach" is very similar to Brian Hendick's comments during S5 about this "being a business trip".
I thought the most interesting moment of this week's ep was when Chris voted for Sarge. Most people will say that the reason MB showed Chris' vote was to show his screwing over his friend, but I thought the key was not the vote, but what he said when he voted, something along the lines of "all I need is for them (the women) to open a door and I'm gonna burn every last one of them."
I've thought from ep1 that Chris is at least F3 and quotes like that from last night only made my convictions stronger in that regard. Look for Chris to weasel his way off the chopping block and help lead the demise of the female alliance.
As for LeAnn and Chad, I wouldn't be suprised if they are the next two boots considering the insignificant editing they are getting as characters on this show. Unless one of them is Vecepia they don't have the editing to be considered important factors in this game. In fact, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Chad will be the next boot and LeAnn will follow him in the following episode.

...see, I had the right post, but I thought it was from Thursday instead of Saturday. Either way, I'm definitely first on the Chad bandwaggon. Now that the gloating is out of the way, let's talk a little STC . STC says that a guy is in trouble this week and based on the spoilers that Chris does very well it seems like the only possible boot this week is Chad. We know that Ami is safe based on Scout's comment that she must go, we know that a guy is going based on the heavy handed editing in the previews pointing towards a coup. We know that is all misdirection and it won't work. And fitting nicely with STC is Ami's comments that she doesn't trust the women...a perfect comment to help mislead the dumb-as-sheep overall viewing audience.
And then when its all said and done, the girls will hold tight and a guy will be gone...and that guy will be Chad a.k.a Zoe Version One Less Leg.
And then next week, when there is a much more coup friendly seven remaining contestants, the seeds laid this ep will sprout and Ami will be targeted, however, she will win IC and LeeAnn will go as the next available target.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-16-04, 03:32 AM (EST)

85. "Agree, yet disagree"

I agree shakes, that the quotes to look for are the ones that don't have relevance to the current story being told. You may very well be right about a Chad boot this week; but to me the quotes that stand out more are JP's, even if you are an underdog, keep winning immunity and you'll stay alive, combined with Ami and LeeAnn's exchange of words regarding LeeAnn continuing to win reward and Ami's continuing to win immunity. We already know from the previews that Ami is part of the team that wins reward; and from Snewser, we can pretty much guess that LeeAnn is toast next week.
To me, if fits perfectly for an Ami boot this week. Why? Because pagonging is a given, so when something deters from pagonging, MB can put the boot right there in front of your face, and you're not going to believe it. It was shoved down our throat that Rory single-handedly won the plate smashing IC for Yasur, next episode, he's gone. Sarge won the first individual IC, next episode, he's gone. Ami wins the puzzle IC, and comes right out and says it may have not been a good idea to win immunity.
This leads me to believe either Ami wins immunity again this week or she is toast.
If she wins immunity again, it strongly suggests either a Chad or Chris boot. The only problem I have with a Chad boot is that he seems to have a strong personality and does not seem like the type of person that CBS would not "exploit" in some way or another. The only evidence I see of Chris going far is one post from a non-spoiler regular claiming weight loss. Thus it would be more likely for a Chris boot than a Chad boot based on screen time to date. What bothers me about Chad's editing is that its been stated by at least both Brady and John K, that I can recall, that Chad is gonna fly under the radar and win the sympathy vote if he makes the Final 2. Chad, however, is not being edited in the least as someone who we should have sympathy for, so I doubt that is the case, but it doesn't seem his story is over yet.
I'm still supporting an Ami boot based on the facts that the "winning immunity continuously will keep you alive" right from JP's mouth, and the fact that an Ami boot would be a surprise from a pagonging and could be put right in front of our face, to even further make people believe its not gonna happen.
The one thing that leads me to think you may be right is how we have not seen on the show that Chris has injuries but seen it from interviews from the likes of Rory on the Early Show, putting Chad a more likely target than Chris; but I don't see that happening unless Ami wins Immunity. So you may very well be right that Chad is toast on Thursday, but I'd bet money that the only way that happens is if Ami wins Immunity again.

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KObrien_fan 8360 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 05:41 AM (EST)

86. "RE: Agree, yet disagree"

Nice analysis Cowboy, I agree with you 100%. Originally at the start of the week many of us thought Ami was the potential boot in order to make any sense out of the Leann boot next week (If indeed that is the case). As the week has worn on though, talk has shifted to Scout, Eliza, Chad, and even Julie as boot targets.
Ami fits the OFG theory, and the email, plus she is a huge strong threat to the lower people on the pecking order (as revealed last week), namely Scout, Eliza, Chad and Chris. If Ami doesn't win immunity, she is toast.

2004 A S S Trivia Champ

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-16-04, 12:42 PM (EST)

92. "Cowboy, you are missing the biggest clue of all!"

The only
>problem I have with a
>Chad boot is that he
>seems to have a strong
>personality and does not seem
>like the type of person
>that CBS would not "exploit"

...I hope this was a joke? Chad??? strong personality??? You HAVE to be kidding me! The guy is a total bland no personality no intelligence no creativity STIFF! I've seen that from day 1 and I think its been pretty obvious from the limited footage we have on this loser.

Now, here is the real problem with your analysis and why you can just take your theory and throw it in the garbage can.....Scout, in the previews, says "we have to get rid of Ami!" Based on that statement and what we know about Survivor history I think it is OBVIOUS that the safest person in the whole game this week is Ami.
How is it possible to be a long time Survivor spoiler such as yourself and totally overlook the most blatant misdirection we have this week, maybe all season?????

Ami is completely safe, Chris has long term editing and long term spoilers, Chad is a useless Zoe like stump and his time in the game is OVER.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-17-04, 00:57 AM (EST)

107. "RE: Cowboy, you are missing the biggest clue of all!"

I TOTALLY missed the "we have to get rid of Ami" in the promos.
Dang!

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Booted 156 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
11-16-04, 07:39 AM (EST)

88. "RE: right here Kingfish"

Shakes:
You said STC says that a guy is in trouble this week and based on the spoilers that Chris does very well it seems like the only possible boot this week is Chad.
Isn't there another another theory that a question asked on previews is always wrong? On one commercial it said "Do the woman stick together and vote out another man" (or something very similar). How does this jive then?
Boot Ed

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 04:49 PM (EST)

99. "RE: right here Kingfish"

Right quote, wrong post. Actually I thought I had seen that somewhere, just couldn't find it in the post referencing the STC figuring. SO I reckoned you were making up your own facts, you know, in hindsight.
I resist working too hard at this stuff, so I don't mind being wrong, it requires less energy than does being right. (I think I just discovered a slogan) But it was worth it in this case to have to reread the "out on a limb". I failed to appreciate it the first time.

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-15-04, 09:06 PM (EST)

80. "Wow Amy...."

>I have a different take (no,
>really?) on the emergence of
>Chad from the background in
>the last few weeks...I think
>it is just the beginning
>of his story and Scout
>will want him around in
>her "harmonious" environment and protect
>him over Julie and Eliza..
>I see Chad as the
>last man standing
...I really hope you were joking when you wrote that? You can't really think that about that loser? The guy is as good as gone and as far as him having no story yet...well, let's just call him Zoe Version One Less Leg.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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pax 56 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
11-16-04, 03:00 AM (EST)

84. "RE: Wow Amy...."

I've been trying to make sense of Chris' vote for Sarge and how it could be part of a strategy. The more I think about it, the more I believe it's aimed at feeding on Eliza's insecurities. In fact, I believe this is the only real male strategy that had ANY chance of working now or in the future.

The women probably expected the vote to be 6-3, with all of the men voting for the same woman while hoping that something would break up the female alliance and get a couple of them to vote along with them.

Instead, it turned out to be 5-1-1 as the survivors saw it. Anyone who follows the game -- and we know this current crop of contestants is well-versed in it -- knows that Burnett likes to build suspense with the reading of the ballots, and that if someone else other than Sarge had gotten the unseen votes, Jeff probably would have read them.

So the women must now look at the vote as being 7-1-1.

Let's assume that it was very clear that Sarge was going. Voting as a group doesn't really do anything for the men. Voting for three different women only makes all three pissed at you.

BUT, by splitting their votes for Julie, Eliza and Sarge...
Chris and Chad now would expect Eliza to come to them and say `Hey, why did one of you vote for me?' The guys look shocked: `What do you mean? We saw the writing on the wall and both of us voted for Sarge. Sarge told us that he was voting for Julie because she screwed up Twyla's trust. SOMEONE ELSE must have voted for you.'

This would make Eliza even more paranoid, perhaps thinking one of them women tossed a vote her way. I then could see her -- prompted by the guys -- going to one of the women who's not in the core female alliance and saying: `You're looking at fifth place. I'm 6th. If we switch to the guys, we have a shot at Final 4. Even a 4-4 tie at the next TC is better than no chance at Final 4 at all.'

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-16-04, 07:37 AM (EST)

87. "RE: Wow Amy...."

Nice to see you shakes
I won't repeat everything I have said so as to not get all you people yawning
It is understandable (roo) that you feel in light of Chad's handicap and so forth that "we" are waiting for this to emerge as why wouldn't they do this with someone who, by all intents and purposes, is inspirational in being on this show and doing everything with a physical problem. However it is BECAUSE of this that I feel he would be going along with the challenge that occurred last week.
The pecking order was clearly shown, Chad was next after Lea. Chris is the third. There has been nothing for me to believe that the women (or a good portion of the women) do not wish to stop their booting of the men.
The things I had posted above were all misdirection as we have seen it before. This is the stuff (Ami's confessional, Scout's talking and so forth) that is laying the groundwork for this to emerge IMO. Further the title of Culture Shock and Violent Storms may have a double innuendo with the storms but I truly believe with such a HUGE change in the game when the women vote off a woman there may be more of a hint in the title. I believe the following week's title is Surprise.........and Surprise Again. This leads me to believe that there is the family visits (Surprise) BUT the OTHER Surprise is something new in the game, i.e. a woman is leaving and BEFORE a man (which would be a huge turning point since this show has been heavy with how the women are going to stick together)
Further, I have yet to see anything definitive that Ami has been said to be the boot. We have half sentences and teasings so I can't conclude that Ami (who has never ONCE been mentioned by the women as "we can't stand her, get her out") until the hummings recently.
Back to Chad. It is for the fact that his handicap has never been put forth as an ISSUE that I feel Mark Burnett will end his "story" without it BECOMING what Chad is all about. With Christy, her hearing impairment had been dropped in and out of the story by her and others. With Chad, it was mentioned in the first episode, disappeared and briefly mentioned again by John K. but ONLY because John K was trying to motivate a reason for Chad's boot. It didn't work. Why? Because Chad's leg WAS and NEVER has been an issue.
I have noticed only that his leg is a story VISUALLY. His leg is given brief shots during challenges or around camp and so forth but NEVER brought up because his handicap has NOTHING to do with his success OR failure in the game whereas Christy's hearing impairment was a huge part of her story and her acceptance and non acceptance in the tribe as well as her own misgivings because of her handicap. Chad got right down and dirty. He showed his leg, was matter of fact and immediately did not allow his LEG to be the story.
As hard as I try I have a bad habit of rambling on Suffice it to say, Chad's "story" or "game playing" was never about his leg therefore Mark Burnett never made it a part of his story so Chad could leave without that ever being highlighted.

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 10:04 AM (EST)

89. "RE: Wow Amy...."

I've been trying to make sense of Chris' vote for Sarge and how it could be part of a strategy.
Simple. He's manipulating the women, just like he talked about in the first episode.
The women have been blatant on their targeting of the men - stick your neck out, you're gone. Travis tries to signal his former tribe, he's gone. Rory is a challenge threat and a complainer, he's gone. Sarge is a challenge threat, he's gone.
Chris is following a different strategy. Instead of sticking out, he's trying to blend into the woodwork. He's not trying to shake things up, he's trying to prove himself useful. After all, at some point they're going to have to start voting off women (as Ami has pointed out). Chris is showing he can be useful as part of that. The women at the lower end of the pecking order could use him to topple the heads and move up. The women at the top end of the pecking order could use him to stave off a coup. Since he's a lone wolf, he appears to be less of a threat.
Since Julie has a F2 pact with him, she may push to use him to boot out some of the other women, since it could improve her standing even further. She's in with Twila, she's in with Leann, she's in with Eliza, but she still has to try and work her way up the totem pole a little more. She may see Chris as a useful tool to do so.
I think Twila has an F2 pact with him too (even though it wasn't shown), so she may also see him as a vote to be used.

Please abide in my words, for my references speak of the truth that is within me.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 11:48 AM (EST)

91. "RE: Wow Amy...."

Chris has shown the most talent so far in this game. Starting with escaping eviction after losing the balance contest (to SCOUT? shoulda been outa there) by engineering the plot to evict the youngers. And the masterful misdirection that set them up. He sputtered at the Rory boot, maybe he was feeling out the women (calm down) and learning who is manipulatable and what their buttons are, but he's obviously at work again in full survival mode, as Bebo (and probably others) point out, blending in, dodging being the target. His quote about not working with the women too well may be the irony here if he manages to survive to the final two (or by winning), by so doing will have mastered the manipulation of the women as well as the men.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 12:49 PM (EST)

93. "RE: Wow Amy...."

Since Julie has a F2 pact with him, she may push to use him to boot out some of the other women, since it could improve her standing even further...I think Twila has an F2 pact with him too (even though it wasn't shown), so she may also see him as a vote to be used.
Chris' F2 confessional came before Twila and Julie reneged on the men and voted for Rory. I would think that in the minds of Chris and Julie (and Twila if she and Chris had one), any F2 pact was voided by that turn of events.
Has anyone considered that Chris might vote against Chad this week?

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 01:06 PM (EST)

94. "RE: Wow Amy...."

I would think that in the minds of Chris and Julie (and Twila if she and Chris had one), any F2 pact was voided by that turn of events.
Well, Chris made them with everybody, so we know how much they've always meant to him - just another ploy to help firm up his position in the game. That's why I could see him using those to try and and stay in. He's trying to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of anyone so that they'll starting ditching women instead of him. So I could easily see him bringing up his pacts with both of them if he thought he could benefit.
Julie has maneuvered herself into the top 4 with Ami, Leann, and Eliza. All the more reason for her to keep Chris around. If they were the final 5, then she could easily get Chris and Eliza to vote against Ami (barring II), and then she'd have 3 people who would have their closest tie to her. Chris could prove quite useful to her, if she's willing to see it.
Has anyone considered that Chris might vote against Chad this week?
Absolutely. When I suggested that the perfect time to ditch Chad would be F6, I mentioned that Chris would want to get rid of Chad early enough that he could keep Chad's vote in the end by not getting his own hands dirty. After all, he got away with voting against Sarge, since Sarge could see the writing on the wall and knew that there were enough votes to get him out without Chris. If he can get rid of Chad at or before F6, then Chris has the same logic working on his side there. He could vote against Chad this week and still have Chad's vote should he make F2.

Please abide in my words, for my references speak of the truth that is within me.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 01:22 PM (EST)

95. "RE: Wow Amy...."

So I could easily see him bringing up his pacts with both of them if he thought he could benefit.
If you mean bringing them up to the other women to cause doubt, I don't think it would matter -- someone (Ami? Scout?) said Twila and Julie did what they had to survive at Lopevi.
But I agree down the line he might reform an F2 pact with either of them or anyone else for that matter if it would help him.
I do remember you saying that about Chris voting for Chad. I have a feeling the kicker this week might be that yes the women are fracturing, but the new alliance is still too nebulous for Chris to depend on, so again he casts a vote for the person he believes is doomed -- perhaps the deciding vote.

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-16-04, 01:23 PM (EST)

96. "RE: Wow Amy...."

Absolutely BR

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pinchy 200 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-16-04, 03:43 PM (EST)

97. "Chris and Ami"

Culture shock... Chris and Ami bond in reward challenge (we saw hints of Chris approaching Ami in the last episode). From Ami's perspective right now, the best final 4 would be: Ami, Leeann, Twila and Chris and even though it would hurt to do this, she has to get rid of Leeann earlier than that because she is her match in every way and the vote would go to Leeann in a final 2.
From Chris' perspective, he needs to get rid of his Chad alliance and join up with two or 3 women. Possibilities are Scout, Twila and Ami. He's been burned by Twila, so he needs to get in a power position with Scout or Ami and convince them that he is an ideal final 2 partner. Scout is easily convinced, she likes Chris. HOw does he get Ami? They go to reward together, he takes every opportunity to show that he is not a threat (gets sick), and continues to make the case that he is a great final 2 partner (it can't be someone you like).
From Scout's perspective, she needs to get rid of Ami or Leeann. Her ideal final 2 is also Chris- she likes him, but knows that she would win the vote. She will try to get Twila, who is torn between Scout and Ami, to vote out Ami or Leeann. Seeing that this is not possible and Chris is also saying to keep Ami (his F2), she will instead vote keep Ami after voting out Chad and Leeann (displacing perceived final 2 of Chris and Ami).
Where does this leave Julie and Eliza? Keep them around until after the Chad and Leeann go. BUT, if Chad wins immunity, one of those two will go next.
Convoluted way of saying next boot is:
Chad, Julie or Eliza (guessing it's Julie)
Final four:
Scout, Ami, Chris, Twila
Final two:
Chris and Scout, or Chris and Twila
Chris could win it if he warms up to enough of the women and makes them fight among themselves... rrrrearrr pffft pfft

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 06:56 PM (EST)

104. "RE: Chris and Ami"

I like it. There is logic there, but there are some points that I think just ain't gonna happen. SO I don't agree with it but I LIKE IT, because of the possibilities.
First Chris's statement about how he can't work with women as well as men, IF he were the last guy at F(Whatever it is now), yet lived to beat out Ami for the money, as well as the other women, well that would ironic in light of his statement.
Then Ami's famous remark about not finishing second to any man. Chris, who can't manipulate women, beats her and forces her second place finish to him, and the irony increases.
And Survivor Vanauatu would have had not one key statement, but two that intertwined at the end. An editors moist reverie.
I can't agree with the path you laid out, but I think there may be another way this could come about. And I personally would prefer this outcome above all others. right now. Till I change my mind again.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 11:33 AM (EST)

90. "RE: Wow Amy...."

Well, Michael..I think another part of me, not my brain, was the motivation behind writing that... Loser--imo no Zoe imo no, but that's just me and I don't expect you ever to understand
I do agree with roo that Chad's story isn't quite over.. I think he may win a challenge or two first and is probably out at F6..I also agree w/ VS that his handicap isn't his story...
And I think VS, the editing guru, was the first one to say she thinks it's Chad this week...OFS theory or not....so give her some credit you omnipotent egocentric

Courtesy of the Amazing Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

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lovwigglesworth 239 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-16-04, 04:42 PM (EST)

98. "Scout's story"

It seems to me Scout is in danger of being voted out this week. But I am having a hard time finding an ending to her story. I am to believe her editing thus far has been about keeping balance around her as she has stated, but is that realy a story? We see somewhat of a conflict story between her and Eliza. Most of what we do seem to know about Scout has been given to us through the Insider, I am not sure what kind of edit they are trying to give us on the show itself.
So what does everyone see as Scout's story?
I would say that if she is to be out this week, they will need to devote quite alot of time at the beginning of the show filling out her story so that it can have an ending.

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 05:05 PM (EST)

100. "RE: Scout's story"

and if that happens then OFS theory (and my eyemail theory) holds up again this week..
However, I do not believe Scout's story is over...imo she is in this game until last show..F4

Courtesy of the Amazing Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004

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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
11-16-04, 05:34 PM (EST)

102. "RE: Scout's story"

I think, without a doubt, that if a woman gets voted out this week it will be Scout and nobody else.
We know she makes a move against Ami this week which, as we know from history, can definitely come back to bite her in the #####, especially if Chris/Chad runs to new RC friend Ami with the news of Scout's disloyalty. Do you think it would be hard to convince Eliza and LeeAnn to vote out Scout? I sure don't.

So don't take the simple fact that I think Shakes is godlike to mean that I think he isn't an ass. -Samiam 10/12/04

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RyrieRae 416 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-16-04, 06:20 PM (EST)

103. "RE: Scout's story"

LAST EDITED ON 11-16-04 AT 06:21 PM (EST)
I'll agree that my "Chad is in F2" ship is sinking and everyone seems to be jumping overboard, but allow me to mention something in his defense that I have not seen posted yet...
In Allstars, there were several comments made by other players about Rob in the final 2, that were edited in. The most specific (and I cannot remember who said it) was mentioned by someone who had been booted off and joined the jury (I think Lex) and said in his final words, "Rob, you better hope you're not in the final 2." Now, why would they put that in if Rob didn't make Final 2? As we know, he of course DID make final 2.
Now, cut to this season. To my recollection, Chad is the ONLY person who other players have been shown mentioning the possibility of him in the final 2. More than once has the comment been made that it would be dangerous to have him in the final 2 because he would get the sympathy vote due to his handicap. If, as everyone agrees, his prosthesis is not a part of his story, then why edit in other players mentioning it in this context? I think we should learn from the past, that this is preparing us for his final 2 spot.
If there have been other comments made by players that speak SPECIFICALLY of a person in Final 2 and what would happen, then please correct me. Thank you. My tribe has spoken.

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 07:01 PM (EST)

105. "RE: Scout's story"

My tribe will call your Tribe.

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zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
11-17-04, 09:28 AM (EST)

108. "RE: Scout's story"

A few episodes back--I think it was the JK boot episode, Chris made a comment about Julie being UTR and if she did not get booted then, then she would be F5 and possibly F2.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-16-04, 07:12 PM (EST)

106. "RE: Scout's story"

Ami will definately learn of Scout's intentions from Leann. Scout is trying to talk Julie and Twila into going with the men, "the men will vote with us", and I think Leann may just over hear them. This happens, IMO, when the four winners of reward are off to the Vanuatan village.
She definately learns of Scout's intent.

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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-19-04, 03:09 PM (EST)

109. "RE: Scout's story"

LAST EDITED ON 11-19-04 AT 03:21 PM (EST)
Again, while the episode itself may not have been as exciting as people would hope for (those overnight rewards tend to get mundane to some) the dynamics were certainly interesting and reflective.
I want to (as always) re-watch the episode but several incidents jumped at me.
Since the information was put in here about Leanne there is not much to discuss as the next bootee but we like forging to who the winner is anyway
First, things that make us go hmmmmm
Change in the weather - weather and surroundings always tempers the mood. Next week I see the volcano starts to spit fire again
The beginning of the show where Jeff's narration of what happened the week before..... He states upon the reward sharing of Julie and Leann "and Julie made her move What was interesting is that for all intents and purposes, it was NOT Julie who made the move, it was Leanne. Tweaks in occurrences and what happened makes one question why. Show Julie as the savvy player and NOT Leanne?
Visual of Chris Drinking his Kava, there was a shot of him blended into a fireball sun as if the island drink gave him new life
Our Interesting Quotes
Ami "...two strong men that could win immunity, one of these guys could make it to end, game not over"
Ami "....it scares me to send a girl home ahead of a guy..." and "it's not time for eliza to be voted yet"
And again, more commentary about "fifth" Julie, Scout, Chris I believe all have been referenced as fifth.
Twilla "I wouldn't want to be out of here by a freaking stone, would you?" (see below)
Twila "....you can't trust anybody. 99.9% but then I don't know..."
Jeff "Ami you have a smile on your face that's so smug"
Ami: "I know that there are people that I can trust totally"
Jeff "We'll see (to Ami) in the final two if you are right or wrong"
Jeff: "Well with only one man, the women must start to think, where do I fit in the pecking order. That one man might become very valuable. Could be interesting"
Challenge commentary by Jeff
RC: "Ami leading Eliza through and Eliza out"
IC:
"Ami losing a bit of grip, Ami starting to slip"
"Twilla - every time you move, risk falling more"
"Leanne, struggling and fighting and she is out"
Situations that keep occurring
Scout Again with taking out Eliza. This has been the primary discussion for some time now and goes back to the first episode. There is most definitely signs that this is going to have some payoff at some point
Twilla Again, being stuck in the middle and relating as such. This poor woman will need therapy after returning home. At some point, she literally will have to make a really hard decision I suspect
Ami Again there is dissension of sorts and Ami is able to turn it around to how she wants.
With the dreaded rock mentioned, we have to wonder if that is foreshadowing of something to come and instead of perhaps Twilla's fate being decided by it she may be the one to "break a tie" so as to avoid the rock scenario. She may be our first human purple rock
Editing
Ami Again as stated before, Ami's editing is thoroughly fascinating. She gets villianized and redeemed constantly. One shot of her or comment by Jeff and she appears to be condescending, controlling and egotistical. We see her at the reward feast and she is moved and awed and excited by the exhibition and the children. She is meant to be shown as a great manipulator but her conversations shown are very low key and often short. Again, Mark Burnett is trying very hard to show Ami as the villian The manipulation is amazing and the question is why? Ami's story therefore, IMO is deserving of a final two performance it would seem. Many feel her storyline is coming to a close; I would hope that after all this, MB will at least invest one episode of her fully prior to her demise.
Twilla While many feel that Twilla has a final two shot; I'm having issues with her due to the constant "I'm in the middle" talk that is starting to wear thin. She was edited extremely sympathetic but last night I began (mind you just began) to get somewhat annoyed with her; her growing pity party is running stale. I usually do not see that type of characterization by the winner. While we had a semi characterization of this with Lil in Panama; Lil was also a perfect final two partner since she was booted originally. Twilla may be final two but I don't see this embellishment of her indeciseveness one of winning the million.
Scout For someone so balanced, she certainly attempted to unbalance things and did a very poor job in her execution. While Ami was "supposed" to again be made villian, Scout seemed to also come off poorly as did Twilla (to my viewing) I did not see the harmonious and keen Scout; I saw a bumbling older woman who failed in her one outwardly shown strategic move. To add insult to injury, she announces Ami as manipulative and very strong but proceeds to try to get rid of "little one" To add further insult to injury, she is shown to go back and do what Ami wanted. Having this one downfall is not necessarily tragic to her longevity as no winner doesn't have warts but every winner appeared to have some fashion of control over their moves and the outcome - Scout failed in perhaps the biggest turning point for her in terms of strategic moves. Again, blunders happen but in terms of balance as a theme, she lost her balance.
Leann Again, Leanne is lovely and endearing. We hear yet again how the island affects her and how she handles both the bad and good. We see long shots of her reacting to the fire talk about Eliza but not a word comes from her mouth. Leanne made a wonderful move by firmly implementing herself next to Ami but if Ami's power is gone, Leanne will be a victim from it. Other than the one moment of strategy talk with Julie, nothing else has focused on her playing the game as opposed to how the game affects her. Her one showing of strategy was usurped last night when Julie was designated as making the move.
Julie A wiley person, playing as hard as she can but again, there was nothing last night capitalizing on any story for her or for that matter how she feels There was a lot of suffering in the rain but Julies always manages each episode to escape the human element in her confessionals and expressions. You would expect then for her to be the one completely in charge but she is not (though she does well in figuring out where her best chances are) Perhaps Chris's confessional of final five is where Julie will then land.
Eliza Our bubbling narrator continues on. If you watch carefully, Eliza is constantly on the screen but her words really have no substance. Example of the reward feast: Eliza's comments were dripped throughout but Ami's talk of the affect on her, Chad's outcome at the hands of the Kava and Chris's fun loving enjoyment I recall more than Eliza's "blathering" While I know some feel she is final two, I don't see her edit this way. I see her as dynamic, annoying, talkative and gets in trouble and her termination will be one of "Well we knew it had to happen"
Chris Chris either has the "against all odds" victory or the ending of the man who tried to maintain the island culture of domination to fail at the hands of a woman. Logically speaking Chris should not win this game and if he were to the story of this season may not be so much about his prevailing against all the women but rather the womens' own undoing coupled with the non ownership of the spirit stone and the cultural aspect of gender hiearchy.
At face value now, and coupled with everything that has happened from the first episode (I will spare ALL of you from repeating all the quotes, references, imagery, etc.) it would seem that Ami, Chris and Scout would make a desirable final three trio based on the culmination from the first episode to now
Although, Eliza is always good for final three material but I just can't see her as final two

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emydi 13669 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-19-04, 04:14 PM (EST)

110. "RE: Scout's story"

Twila-- I began (mind you just began) to get somewhat annoyed with her; her growing pity party is running stale. Twila may be final two but I don't see this embellishment of her indeciseveness one of winning the million.
Scout-While Ami was "supposed" to again be made villian, Scout seemed to also come off poorly as did Twilla (to my viewing) I did not see the harmonious and keen Scout; I saw a bumbling older woman who failed in her one outwardly shown strategic move. Scout failed in perhaps the biggest turning point for her in terms of strategic moves.
Amen, VS
Twila imo is not long for this game...the whining and indecision will cost her...(and imo GOOD RIDDANCE--her "indecisiveness" ousted CHAD!!)the decision she may have to make is the deciding Jury Vote...
Scout was just horrible last nite strategically. What was she doing around the fire with everyone!!! Take them all aside and feel them out on the issue...yikes!!
After last nite, I do not see Twila even in the F4, Julie as possible and Ami--I think may make it there yet despite her villainization....and the rest of them trying to get her.
After last nite, I would like to see a Chris/Ami showdown in the F2...whether I will get it, I'm not sure yet..depends on how Leann goes next week, imo....

Handcrafted by RollDdice

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-19-04, 05:37 PM (EST)

111. "RE: Scout's story"

LAST EDITED ON 11-19-04 AT 05:52 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON 11-19-04 AT 05:41 PM (EST)
I agree, editing-wise this story, our little drama, seems to be playing out as you so well describe. An enjoyable and informative expose'. Thanks and good job.
Now, you have to read mine (ahem);
Couple of points about Twilla,
1. The conversation she had with Scout when scout was trying to get her to listen to “her (Scout’s) logic” and Twilla said something like “I don’t know what you are going to say but I know I going that a’way” as a brush off. Showing her to be floundering, directionless, and exasperated with people trying to explain why she should vote a certain way. (I actually admired her brush off of Scout in that instance).
Being shown as indecisive, pushed around, willing to be directed but not having a direction or being able to depend on someone for direction. Not good editing, for her anyway. There have been others who have reached a singular point (maybe multiple times) when they are suddenly thrust adrift, their previous assumptions irretrievably exposed as false, and they are without a clue as to where the flow goes. And they are shortly dispatched. Chad is the best example of this, when I saw his reaction at TC after Sarge was ousted, it was clear that he was the on the short list. Even without STC.
2. She was actually the narrator during a large part of the Post IC segment. I haven’t figured out what to make of that other than that it seemed unusual for a player with her editing to suddenly have a game narration.
My feeling is that this portends a quick end for Twilla. How she can logically become a target, based on what we have seen, is beyond me. Unless her indecision just PO’s everyone, and they all (or 4 of 7) abandon reason and strategy to vote off their biggest (by then )irritant.
Hold the phone! I just had a flash that would make sense of some of the editing. Twilla doesn’t go this week - she goes next week as a result of a tie and the “..FRIGGIN PURPLE ROCK” (Twilla’s’ quote). MB attempts to get an ironic result based on a prophetic remark.
Well wipe that smirk off your face, MB, we see thru your attempt at surprise, and it is exposed, ironically, by your predictability. We, the spoilers of this world, we win the ironic key remark duel. HAH!
Returning to subdued prose, I hereby predict that if we hear the FPR quote again, either in the promos or especially in the next show, that that is exactly what will happen.
The Kingfish Prophecy.

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RyrieRae 416 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-19-04, 06:10 PM (EST)

112. "RE: Scout's story"

Eliza will not make Final 2 (or 3 for that matter)
We have seen that EVERYONE hates Eliza and wants her gone. While you would think this would make a great F2 partner if you were playing the game, the editing will not allow her in that spot. If she were, then it would be a dead giveaway that whoever she was up against would win.
If she were in the Final 3, then whoever wins Final Immunity would take her, but my first paragraph proves this impossible.

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Nashter 35 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
11-19-04, 07:52 PM (EST)

114. "RE: Scout's story"

Ah..but I think she will make final 3 which I see as Twila, Eliza and Chris!
The tables are turning! Chris is going to win immunity and he will take Eliza not Twila to F2. I think Scout will be out after Ami
I think boot order is
Leann
Ami
Scout
Julie
Twila
Eliza and Chris
Chris will win b/c Chad, Sarge, Scout, Twila and Ami will vote for him

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pinchy 200 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
11-19-04, 10:06 PM (EST)

116. "RE: Scout's story"

right, Eliza is my pick for the number 3 spot as well, ala Jonny Fairplay (not villain wise, but just as annoying). They (Twila and Chris) keep her as a possible F2 partner, but have second thoughts in the end. (Ami and Scout kill each other off at 4 & 5).

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PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-20-04, 11:47 AM (EST)

118. "RE: Scout's story"

>Twila doesn’t go this week - she
>goes next week as a result of a tie and
>the “..FRIGGIN PURPLE ROCK” (Twilla’s’
>quote). MB attempts to get
>an ironic result based on
>a prophetic remark.
Actually I see her going 6th because of the fear of a purple rock and Twila's "friggin' purple rock" comment will come back to bite her in the butt.
I think she'll get the Christy boot -- final 6, fence-sitting, non-committal, result: everyone gangs up to boot her because they can't trust her.

©Slice & Dice Chop Shop 2004
Scratch and sniff

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-20-04, 05:53 PM (EST)

121. "RE: Scout's story"

We are saying the same thing, right?
(I say she goes next week, you say she goes final 6, same thing right?)
Appreciate the Christy analogy, I hadn't made that connection. Makes it even more fitting, F6 boot is the fence sitter boot. Have to remember that.

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-19-04, 07:16 PM (EST)

113. "RE: Scout's story"

LAST EDITED ON 11-19-04 AT 07:18 PM (EST)
I'll give more detailed POV after I rewatch my tape. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was Chad being chosen over Chris. Why is that? We know why Sarge was chose firsts. He had won an immunity and had PROVEN he was an immunity threat. I didn't hear any talk as to why the women chose Chad.
Chris, IMO, is the real immunity threat. Not just because he is capable of winning challenges. His has an ability to "work the room", as the expression goes, and no one is the wiser. Could it be that he is much better with manipulating the women than we though, or even he thought? Of all of the men out there Chris is the one that Ami has shown the slightest bit of friendship towards. In all of Chris's confessionals he is shown as scratching and clawing his way. He shown working ALMOST every angle. You hear how he is ADAPTING, let me say that again ADAPTING to his new environment. His confessionals are intuitive about the women around him. Wha a great move he made by telling everyone he voted for Sarge. Endering himself to the women rather than being defiant like Rory.
Despite the long odds against Chris he doesn't appear rattled. He has changed his game to fit the his new circumstance. BALANCE, yes Chris, despite his circumstances has BALANCE. Ironic considering he was the first to lose his in EP1.
Does Chris have an alliance with any women? We know that he has made several sub alliance starting from the first time the women showed up at Lopevi. Could these sub alliances have played a role in Chad being choosen over him
Lastly I'm not convinced that Chad becomes a challange whore, at least for the next couple of EP's. If he were to win a RC or IC he would be immediatly targeted by Ami, like Rory and Sarge.
The only way Chris is going to win this game is by doing what he said he was incapable of doing, and that's by manipulating the women just as well as he did the men.
Like VS, I like EP's like this. It was chalked full of goodies.
DRONES

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kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-19-04, 08:40 PM (EST)

115. "RE: Scout's story"

One heck of an excellent question. Why did they pick Chad over Chris? They are all on the island together, it can't have escaped the attention of the women that Chris is a more dominant (though more subtle than Ami) force.
- To eliminate the more sympathetic of the two, thinking about F4/F2 possibilities? No, Chris or Chad are tied IMO that way. Chad may be more sympathetic to the viewing audience, but the people that know him have surely stopped seeing the leg except as a detail. They seem to both get along with the women pretty much equally (except of course that Ami, Julie and Chris seem to wake up in each other clothes. Hmmmm. OK hat only for Chris. Hmmmm again.)
- Better manipulator has to be the answer. Chris used Chad as a body shield, and lulled Chad into thinking he was safe with a false partnership. As he did Sarge. Twilla and the other false partners had to be in on it though for it to work. His bloc is beginning to gel (or so MB would have us believe?). He is good, even after using Sarge and Chad as cannon fodder, they still seem to not resent his moves. How weird is that?

His self proclaimed weakness in manipulating women is classic misdirection (or self deception? Nah) and well used by MB. This guy (Chris) should be a salesman. If I were MB I would be trying to hire Chris after this is over.
And the influence of Balance, with the various facets and interwoven irony, is well, like poetry.
If he can survive this next vote, without immunity, it will be awesome and a-frikking-mazing.

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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-20-04, 10:59 AM (EST)

117. "RE: Scout's story"

Chris has been a mastermind throughout this entire season.Making it through episode one with his pathetic performance on the balance beam was amazing. Being the unseen leader of Lopevi, letting Sarge take all the heat that comes with being the Chief another bonus for Chris. He bobs and weaves and clearly has a great ability to think on his feet and adapt to whatever situation he finds himself in. Going this far with no real enemies and no one out to get him really shows his ability as a major player in this game. Just making it to the final four with all the others remaining being female would be fantastic. But the final four will only be one stop on his way to being the sole survivor.RedBeard

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Nashter 35 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
11-20-04, 04:22 PM (EST)

119. "I have to agree"

Chris has been and continues to be a mastermind. He is VERY good at listening and determining where weaknesses lie and as long as what he's doing is not outed, he will continue to do that. The interesting thing is that there has been a lot of bantying that Ami and not Chris wins immunity. The question is that if Chris can actually survive without immunity, then what in the game has changed?
The only thing that comes to mind and it won't come from Ami or Leann is that the women in a self serving manner now think that end 2 will be much better with a man and a women because there will be 2 men and 5 women in the end!
Quite frankly other than Eliza and maybe Ami, any of the women could beat Chris in F2.

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aethelstan 4435 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest"
11-20-04, 04:41 PM (EST)

120. "RE: I have to agree"

I'll agree that Chris is playing as well a game as he could be at this point but Ami is also playing a great game. It certainly doesn't appear that Ami forces the women to vote the way she wants to. Seems more like she discusses it with them explaining how it's in the voter's best interest to vote the way she happens to be voting. From the preview, it looks like Chris will use that same strategy with Eliza.
The reason I mention this is that I don't think any of the women have any animosity toward Ami. Just as they didn't toward Chris or Sarge. Some of them are recognizing that she has a lot of strength/influence to do well in challenges and go far in the game. Others are riding her coattails as it has already and may continue to help them get farther in the game.
So, unless their being voted out is seen by the rest of the women as a betrayal, Ami could beat Chris in F2. Of all the survivors, Ami hasn't been seen to be duplicitous. If anything, her strategy is too blunt but she has never equivocated like Eliza did when she voted out Dolly. Or like Scout will next episode, when she says that she didn't initiate the 'let's get Eliza' plan.

©Forged by RollDdice.

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Flowerpower 7262 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-26-04, 04:58 PM (EST)

122. "Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Wow, what a fantastic episode! I thought it was downright masterful how it all played out and I loved every bit of it! I really think that Ami was always the head honcho of Yasur, although I see some people speculating that they now think it was Leann all along. I disagree. I think that Ami manipulated Leann to a tee. Unbelievable how she got Leann to approach Scout and Twila regarding the coup that was exposed by Chris. Then after it had been discussed and the women went off to discuss the next boot sans Chris and Eliza, and they decided to vote out Eliza, Ami just let it all play out. She LET them make the choice. Leann still did not believe Twila, so so stupid for her to admit it to her face....as it was a fatal error on their part to tell Scout that she was NOT in their final 4....what were they thinking, totally oblivious, at least I thought Leann was.
To me it seemed as if Ami was just letting all play out, taking a back seat, but committed to the group.
Regarding Ami, what a comeback, "you did'nt screw me, I'm still here!" Ha! Ami was indeed floored by the vote, and I loved how when Eliza looked over to her after their had been 3 Eliza votes called, and Ami just nodded her head as if to say, yes, it's your turn Eliza!
All in all, I am not counting Ami out. It sure appears that if she does not win immunity, she is toast. We'll see!
As for Twila, at last she's showing some game playing and with the odd numbers she certainly was NOT indecisive! Hooray for her. Chris had blatantly given up and was resigned to whatever the women had in store, it seemed to me. Then when Twila gave him the speech, "you've been in control of this game for the last 2 weeks and you didn't even know it"....go to her....Eliza.
Thank God she spelled it out for him! I sure would love to see Twila end up in the final 2 as she's earned my respect. She's focused on the prize and is willing to do what it takes to get there.
Chris, wow, what a fun player he is! His words in the first episode of "I started playing this game the minute I set foot here", has indeed played out, he's still playing the game with everything he's got....although, I definately noted a down period after the IC. Twila sure turned him in the right direction and he seized the moment! I can see him using Eliza to get to the end game. As for his alliance with Julie, I'd say that's out the window now. Just had to comment on Chris' elation at the TC last night.
Eliza just is so lucky to be steered by the players around her. In my opinion that's all she's got. I think that the others certainly may want her as an F2 opponent as she is so annoying to be around, and they all feel as though she contributes the least. Chris just may get her there. I can see her becoming Chris' little lap dog from here on out.
Scout, I was glad she opted to play the game, and admitted that she was reduced to lying now. You gotta do what you gotta do, and she did it. Wonder what she was thinking when a. Chris ratted her out to the women, and b. Twila blamed the whole coup on her. She is odd woman out, lets see if she can use the others to get to where she needs to go.
I really have the most admiration for Twila at this point. I would love to see a Twila/Chris F2.
Now a few words on the jury members. Their reaction to the vote spoke for themselves....we know who they are rooting for 100%. That made to whole show to me to see the look on their faces when Leann got the boot!
Great, great episode.

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smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
11-26-04, 05:59 PM (EST)

123. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Ami: I'm not counting her out as she is a fierce competitor, but I don't think anyone wants anything to do with her right now. Easily first on the chopping block.
Twila: I underestimated her - it looks like she knew what she was doing all along. I think she most deserves to win right now.
Scout: She also stepped up a bit and didn't fold under Ami and Leann's double team interrogation. Say what you will about her physical play, but she always is on the right side of the votes.
Julie: I think she can jump away from Ami, as she and Chris seem to be somewhat close. Julie has voted on the wrong side of the decision several times already, and with Ami around she is not the focal boot point. I think she can be a swing vote in the future.
Chris: He is feisty but seemed resigned to being booted next, and then okay with the fact that he was spared for three more days. Twila did great in getting him to play a role, rather than accept his fate. Good thing there weren't more survivors around or it might have been half an hour before he finally guessed Eliza's name.
Eliza: For a self proclaimed survivor fan, she makes a lot of mistakes, is unfavored by a lot of her tribemates, and has to be led around. They must be hiding something in the editing because I am amazed she is still around. Now she may make it all the way as a token final 2 victim and get creamed 6-1 or 7-0 in the final vote.

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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
11-29-04, 11:39 AM (EST)

127. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Good thing there weren't more survivors around or it might have been half an hour before he finally guessed Eliza's name.
No kidding. I was half-expecting him to say, "should I talk to Jeff Probst?"
Chris is hardly the player he thinks he is. After Julie told him that Eliza was going, not him, he should have jumped into action. But it didn't seem to occur to him that he should think up a plan that would help him stay beyond the *next* TC.
His defeatist attitude and then his inability to strategize effectively on his own does not bode well for him making F2, imo. I think he is being edited to get outsmarted by the women in the endgame.

Bridge for sale to highest bidder. Call 1-800-BRroach.

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fallingtogether 85 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square"
11-27-04, 04:58 PM (EST)

124. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Great observations Flowerpower. Here are my thought on Thursday's episode:
The Downfall of Leanne and Ami: I have alway been a fan of Leanne and Ami - since day one. But I realized what a huge mistake they made last night! How could they be so stupid! First, Chris rats out Twila and Scout. That should have been a sign right there that they couldn't trust them. Then they go and talk to Twila and Scout and confront them about it. And later they include them in talks to vote out Eliza! If I was in that situation, I would have kept Eliza close and talked to Chris about voting out Twila and Scout.
Twila's Power Move: I must say that I have respect for Twila now. She really made the game-changing move when talking to Chris. I think it will take her to the end.
Chris Comes in Third: After THursday's episode and the reactions by Chad and Sarge to Leanne's boot, if the remaining women are smart, they'll take Chris to the final three and then dump him because he's get votes from Sarge and Chad. I can see the boot order going like this: Ami, Julie, Eliza and then Chris. Final two: Twila and Scout.

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redbeard103152 466 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
11-27-04, 05:28 PM (EST)

125. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Twila's talk to Chris helped Chris recognise how to get rid of the major two person alliance by taking Ami's hand picked final two opponent out of the equation. His next move is to take the remaining part Ami out as soon as she loses the IC.With the way the remaining survivors feel he will not have any trouble getting this particular mission acccomplished. Next, his goal should be to take out at least one of the the other major two player alliance, that being the Scout, Twila twosome. To do this he will use Julie and Eliza again when we have an odd number of contestants. It is in Chris' best interest to take Eliza with him to the final 2 if at all possible. There is too much forshadowing and too many key quotes made by Chris for him to finish outside the final 2. For a guy who should have been eliminated in the first episode because of his terrible balance, he has been on top of the balance beam for most of the game since that horrible beginning. He will be the ultimate survivor on this island of fire.RedBeard

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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
11-29-04, 02:14 AM (EST)

126. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Ami and Leann made the fatal flaw of arrogance. I'm not so certain that either Ami or Leann were in charge as it was a co-leadership. Their discussion with Scout sealed Leann's fate. IMO, it was Scout who told Twilla to go to Chris about using Eliza, and that it wasn't Twilla's idea alone. Ami from the clips has not learned any lesson. Her quote to Twilla about still being in the game shows that she is going to be defiant to the end.
I know there are some who believe Twilla coming to Chris about Eliza saved him but that was not the case. Chris, after coming back from TC stirred the pot by ratting out Twilla and Scout. He then sat back and let the paranoia set it in. This move completely took Ami out of her game. The misdirection worked, because by the end of the episode Chris was not longer the target but Eliza. Chris should be safe this episode as the women stay focused on one another. Chris doesn't have to vigorously stir the pot any more, but instead just a gentle turn it once in a while. He should be safe until the final 4 but with this group, you never know. He would be smart to win a IC or two to ensure his place in the final 4 as this group is prone to violent changes in direction.
Twilla and Scout, to their credit, saw the writing on the wall after they were confronted by Ami and Leann. Niether one of them were ever in danger this episode. I'm very surprised that Ami never seriously considered Scout a threat. Ami may have been sympathetic towards Scout, since they were both lesbians.
Julie, as has been pointed out by others, is on the wrong side of the alliance and no one really trusts her.
It was funny to watch the reaction of Sarge and Chad at TC when Chris was not voted out.

DRONES

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Oscirus 1596 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
11-30-04, 08:25 AM (EST)

128. "RE: Post Episode 11 discussion, surprise and surprise again"

Id say that episode 11 is a bit of a farewell to Eliza. The fact that her quote about everybody targeting her getting sent packing is mighty suspect especially when she has made that statement before and it wasn't shown. Ill say she is gone in ep 13.

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