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"Hidden immunity"
Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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02-10-07, 01:10 PM (EST)
 
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"Hidden immunity" |
Are there one or two hidden idols?
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Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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02-10-07, 01:21 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
There are two. One in each camp.I was surprised that Sylvia didn't pick up on that when she read the clue. For the clue to say that the HII is back at camp and given the fact that there's no way to know WHICH camp she would be joining should have triggered the obvious that there are TWO HII. But being exiled and trying to avoid the snakes, I think we could cut her some slack. 
"Let's go to the videotape"
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-10-07, 03:20 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-10-07 AT 03:23 PM (EST)Not quite Aruba: As far as Sylvia knew, there was only 1 camp at the time. She didn't know that the losing tribe had to migrate to a second camp. Even in episode 2 when she gets to the second camp, she still won't know there are 2 idols because the camp were she'd wind up HAD to be the loser's camp. The editors didn't know which tribe she'd join but they knew which camp: The "Have-Nots". In her mind, there could still be only 1 idol at the "Have-Not" camp. Another clue will be needed for anyone to figure it out.
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Aruba 3400 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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02-10-07, 06:00 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
Granted Jeff did not specifically spell out the fact that there would be two separate camps, but conventional wisdom must prevail here.When all the outcasts for any season are intitally split up they are ALWAYS separated. Having two tribes with nine outcasts living at the SAME camp during the very first week of the season makes absolutely no sense. I agree the editors know that Sylvia HAD to join the losing team...but what about thereafter? Whoever is the second exile gets the first clue and a new clue. What if Ravu wins a challenge and sends a Moto player to Exile Island who then reads the clue that the HII is "back at your camp"? I realize nothing is a given on Survivor, but as I stated, conventional wisdom prevails.
"Let's go to the videotape"
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 11:42 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
How long does it take to write a clue? The exile happened on day 3, well after they had decided on the 19th player joining the losing tribe! I'm sure she isn't thinking: "Wait, that girl quit, so this clue tells me there are 2 idols because we'll eventually be split in 2 camps and Survivor is fair and treats both camps the same."All I'm saying is that in Sylvia's mind, the clue doesn't tell her that there are 2 idols. For now, "the idol is at camp" tells her it is on Moto Beach since that is where "camp" is for her. She might actually try to remember the maps she had to see if there was any indication there! Once she arrives in Ravu, she could still think of having to wait for a twist to get back to Moto to start looking or she might make the assumption that the camp mentioned in the clue was Ravu since they knew she HAD to be going there. Assuming there are 2 idols would be a pure guess. She needs another clue to know there are 2 idols.
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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02-11-07, 12:32 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-11-07 AT 12:33 PM (EST)Whether or not Sylvia (or anybody) was thinking about game changes related to an exiting player, she knew there were now 2 tribes. Yes, she left before Jeff explained the reward element of the challenge - but it is a reasonable and likely assumption that there are 2 camps. Only once have 2 tribes lived at one camp - Thailand, and it was only for one challenge cycle. (3 days?) "Here you won't find the idol you crave. Search back at YOUR camp if you hope to be saved."
It's right there in the clue. From past clues, we know that every word is significant. There's an idol at HER camp.
OK, I guess it's possible that Sylvia might miss that and assume Moto and only Moto camp, but that's a real stretch. She's a bright woman. I think it's more likely that she'll assume 2 idols - or not even think about it - than that she will wait for the merge to get back to Moto camp & search. If she's even there at merge. I think you're trying a little hard with this idea. edited for clarity.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 05:09 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
>Only once have 2 tribes lived
>at one camp - Thailand,
>and it was only for
>one challenge cycle. (3 days?)Just to be exact, in Thailand, they spend two episodes living together: They had joined the same camp at 10 and merged at 8.
>"Here you won't find the idol
>you crave. Search back
>at YOUR camp if you
>hope to be saved."
>I think it's more
>likely that she'll assume 2
>idols
I'm sorry but that is a leap to assume 2 idols. The rational player would realize that, as joining the member of the losing tribe, the clue means that the idol is at the "Have-Not" camp. That IS HER camp. She might make a mistake and think that "your camp" refers to THE camp they spend 3 days building. Afterall, Ravu isn't a camp but a bare stretch of beach. She may start thinking it will need a tribal switch for her to get to the idol. Nothing in those words can tell her there are 2 idols. The most she could do is ask herself: "Could there be 2 idols?" It was wrong to denigrate Sylvia by saying she HAD to realize there were 2 idols.
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Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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02-11-07, 05:19 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
either way I believe it's going to be so hard for her to look for the idol without given herself away.Everyone is going to watch her like a hawk.
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Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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02-11-07, 05:53 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
True,it will be interesting for her,she will be praying that no one from her camp goes to exile.The most time she will have is one more day to look for it?correct?
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 06:56 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
If I was looking at the clue, and I knew we couldn't have two tribes in one shelter the whole time -- plus I was guaranteed to be going to the losing one -- I might think something along the lines of Okay, they get the shelter, but the losing tribe gets a shot at an idol. Potentially temporary luxury or long-term safety: that's not a bad trade. Of course, I'm also really unhappy because that first clue has basically told me Absolutely Nothing about what it might look like, how it's concealed, and so on all the way down the line. Of course, I'm the suspicious sort, so I follow this up with But this is Survivor. At this point, everyone expects one idol. Now there's a good chance someone rushed to ExI ahead of me and planted this clue: it's back at your camp. And it would apply to anyone who came here, because the leader would wind up with the losing tribe. But there's a problem here. No one says my team is going to lose every challenge and always have people coming to this spot. Eventually, we're going to send one of theirs here. And are they going to learn it's in our camp? No, because every exile needs a chance to hunt for it and how are they going to sneak in? By this point, I'm getting worried. So there have to be two idols, one in each camp. That means the voting strategy could get really tricky. And we have to find ours before they get theirs. If they're both still in play at the merge... Obviously I don't know how Idol 3.0 works yet, and that use of 'we' isn't going to show up very often in this game, but I'm thinking about the way the other one could be used against the tribe: all it takes is a numbers swing to make my life miserable. This is just saying that I could get there from where the clue started me off at. But then, I watch this show. And I don't trust the producers as far as I can drop them off the watchtower.
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Sunny_Bunny 5597 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 10:43 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
Thank you Estee, you said exactly what I wanted to say, but said it so much better. lol
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 11:59 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-12-07 AT 00:01 AM (EST)
>..."it's back at your
>camp." And it would
>apply to anyone who came
>here, because the leader would
>wind up with the losing
>tribe. But there's a
>problem here. No one
>says my team is going
>to lose every challenge and
>always have people coming to
>this spot. Eventually, we're
>going to send one of
>theirs here. And are
>they going to learn it's
>in our camp? No,
>because every exile needs a
>chance to hunt for it
>and how are they going
>to sneak in?
>
>By this point, I'm getting worried.
> So there have to
>be two idols, one in
>each camp.
Estee, I appreciate your perspicacity but you are making a leap here also: When Sylvia learns that the losing tribe also lost the shelter, she'd be much more likely to assume that if they win later on and send someone from Moto to exile island, Moto would also lose the shelter and thus the exiled player's camp would always be in the Low-rent district of the "Have-Nots". (It would be funny to see if she considers sabotaging her tribe's effort at winning reward to stay where they are.) Like I've said, Sylvia may ask herself "Could there be two idols?" but she could not be sure and we cannot say she HAD to figure it out by reading that clue. At least another clue is needed and she may not see it.
And while I'm at it: She may even think that the next clue would not necessarily be written the same way. WE know that, in the PAST, the same clues get handed to every exiled player so WE are ASSUMING that it will be the case again this time. On clue #2, the part that Sylvia received could well have been changed to "the idol is at the Have-Not camp"
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Colonel Zoidberg 3662 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge"
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02-12-07, 09:42 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
>Whether or not Sylvia (or anybody)
>was thinking about game changes
>related to an exiting player,
>she knew there were now
>2 tribes. Yes, she left
>before Jeff explained the reward
>element of the challenge -
>but it is a reasonable
>and likely assumption that there
>are 2 camps. Reasoanble, yes. Correct, yes. Enough variations of the game to screw with her and make her think that there might be two tribes living on the same beach, yes. >Only once have 2 tribes lived
>at one camp - Thailand,
>and it was only for
>one challenge cycle. (3 days?) Two challenge cycles, actually. And a small nitpick - for a brief time in the Palau premiere, Ulong and Koror were separate tribes living on the same beach. That's the only other time, though. 
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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02-12-07, 12:32 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
Even though they're not allowed to speak, they're all together (more or less, maybe two groups, I'm not 100% sure) for a pre-game camp. Guaranteed SOME of them know, probably at least half, and very likely all of them.
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michel 10958 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-13-07, 12:39 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
LAST EDITED ON 02-13-07 AT 12:43 PM (EST)Just to show there are no guarantees and we have to be careful with what we assume; jbug was onto something. This is from an interview with Jessica: IGN TV: Did you know one girl had pulled out just before? Jessica: "Yeah, we knew it. We all said, 'What happened to that other girl?' It's not like we had introduced ourselves to her, but we saw her on the plane to Fiji. And then when we finally put us on the boat to paddle out, she wasn't there, and I had a bad feeling, because I had a fever before I even went on the island. I thought maybe she was my alternate. I didn't want to tell people 'Hey I was sick' and she had the same coloring and the same height as me, I thought 'Oh no.' Maybe they thought I wasn't going to make it. And then everyone again has their own theory and their gossip. I think it was Boo who thought she was a spy..." They didn't know for sure she had quit. Myself, I may have wondered just like Boo if she was a member of the crew put in with the cast to make sure they don't start talking to each other.
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jbug 17146 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-14-07, 11:33 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
Thanks for that support, Michel.
I THOUGHT it was a good thought, but then??????????????
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AshLanie 895 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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02-24-07, 05:36 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
>LAST EDITED ON 02-11-07
>AT 08:53 AM (EST)
>
>The editors didn't know which tribe
>she'd join but they knew
>which camp: The "Have-Nots".
>
>Well, that is true after Melissa
>quit. However, at the time
>they made the clue etc,
>they had 20 players, and
>the exiled would not have
>gone and "replaced" a snuffed
>player, but would have gone
>back to the camp they
>were originally separated into.
>So, the assumption that there
>are two idols still stands,
>because the producers would have
>had no idea which tribe
>was sending a member to
>exile.
>
> Per the tv guide special there were to be four tibes as last year but when the female quit night before taping they had to of course switch things up.
So, the clues etc were written AFTER the female quit.
And I think we'll find that the clues for both tribes are the same....two idols but both hidden in a spot (in their respective camps) where each tribe receives the same worded clues.
Two sets of the same worded clues (copy and paste) for both camps wouldn't take but five minutes to write up.
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Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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02-10-07, 06:44 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Hidden immunity" |
How are two hidden immunities going to effect the game,won't the game last longer if they try to vote off two people that will be saved by the idol?What happens when they do vote a person who possesses the idol?
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Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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02-11-07, 12:00 PM (EST)
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9. "How the idols work." |
LAST EDITED ON 02-11-07 AT 12:02 PM (EST)1. The idols are good until played, or at least until further notice. Once you have the thing, it can't be taken away from you without Jeff throwing in a twist. (With two in play, it makes sense that they would expire around Final Five.) 2. Idols may be transferred from the finders to second parties. (It is presumed that an idol must be switched off before Council, but it's possible that Jeff might allow an open transfer just before the vote. Don't bet on it, though.) 3. An idol must be played after the votes are tallied, but before they're read. This is crucial. You can't sit on an idol and wait for it to protect you any more. If you're holding an unplayed idol when the majority of votes come out for you, grab your torch and go: it didn't work. Idol holders are now vulnerable to blindsides. The ideal case for the idol holder: you get the news that you (or someone you can execute a transfer with) is next to go. Council. The votes are cast and counted. Jeff comes back and asks if anyone wants to use the idol before he reads them off. The idol is handed over to Jeff. At this point, the votes for whoever handed the idol in are negated. The person with the second-largest number of ballots is out. This should be someone on the opposing alliance, as the idol holder will generally get to control this vote. (6-1 -- six is negated -- one calls the shot. If things get more scattered, we could see a tiebreaker, or even one with more than two people involved -- 4-1-1-1 isn't exactly impossible.) However -- you have to think you've going. This means it's possible to feint the idol holder into wasting it. If you know who's got it, convince them they have the votes that night -- then vote for someone else you want out, watch them waste it, and get them next Council. Or just make the holder believe in absolute safety, so it won't be played -- then vote for them anyway. If it's not played, it's no good. The idol has to be active this time: not a land mine waiting to be stepped on, but a grenade that needs the pin pulled -- and if you hang onto it, it'll just go off in your hand. 4. If an idol is used with time remaining in the game, it resets: new hiding place, someone can find it and use it again. There are currently no known limits on idol finds: using it once doesn't keep you from getting it again. 5. One nightmare currently exists: the double-bounce. This can only occur after merge. It happens when both idols are played in a single Council, and the only people voted for are the ones holding the idols. This negates all votes -- and yet, someone has to go home. It's been dealt with in a fictional season, where the rule was 'The idol holders and person with Immunity remain immune and cannot be voted for. Everyone then votes again.' No one has any idea what would happen if this came up in the real one -- and until someone in the cast realizes there's two idols in play, Jeff isn't going to be asked. 
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Ripley 196 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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02-11-07, 01:47 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: How the idols work." |
I must have been mistaken,I thought that the Idol could come out after the tallies were read to save that person from getting kicked off.
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nazpink 1058 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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02-23-07, 09:18 AM (EST)
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29. "RE: How the idols work." |
Since the HII was introduced it has always served as a pretty simplistic safety net....not much excitement and no one ever seemed willing to take a risk, except Cao Boi who came up with the Voodoo plan. I'm happy to know that Burnett has made the HII more of a challenge, both in using it and finding it. Whoever has it will need to make rather great judgement and connections before using it....or they could otherwise waste a perfectly good immunity....and aquiring the HII is probably one of the bigger challenges! Imagine having to dig around in hopes of finding it right in front of the other players?! I wondered if anyone wondered what it was that Sylvia was doing digging in the dirt....I wonder if Earl was paying attention. All in all it has potential for more complication, skill and excitement...here's to hoping it becomes just that.
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