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"Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire"
esquire 1095 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest"
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05-12-03, 04:03 PM (EST)
 
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"Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 04:32 PM (EST)LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 04:31 PM (EST) I was thinking about what a surprise it was for me to have Jenna made the winner. I was also surprised to hear that so many members of the jury thought Rob would have won if he was in the final 2. They seemed to admire his duplicitous ways. They liked the way Jenna played the game to her advantage. Few points were given to Butch or Matt for hard work, catching fish and being trustworthy. Traits like hard work, providing food and trustworthiness used to be something that the contestants attempted to attain to win the game. That was very much behind the wins of Richard and Tina. That makes me wonder if the dynamics of the game have been permanently changed. The members of the jury will reward the liars and cheats as good game players and punish the hardworkers for not being sneaky enough. If that is so, it will greatly affect the way we need to spoil the game. Alternatively, I wonder if this was just the result of a very young jury. Just about everyone on the jury was in their 20s or early 30s (except for Butch). A more traditional, mature or older jury would have been more likely to vote for Matt and penalize Jenna for being lazy.
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jsanb 178 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 04:19 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
Great Post.Absolutely, this jury was stacked for the younger, lazier and more social players. As it turned out Matt probably needed to go up against Butch to have any chance in winning. He also needed to be "truer to his character" and win the final immunity. Even if he takes Jenna to F2, he would be seen in a more scheming way. This jury was the very opposite of S5, and the result is reflective of that. Rob lost S6 when he voted out Deena.
Matt lost when he voted out Butch.
Butch lost when Roger was voted out(only person so strongly disliked that he could have won). Peanut Butter Jeff
A Disciple of Nash
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 04:30 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury" |
i'm sure that it was the fact that they were all young and could relate and would've done the same thing to get in that F2 seat.but you say it like it was a bad thing. i don't think it's bad to recognize what the game takes, and to recognize when someone has done it better than you did. i still can't believe the landslide, though. i really was convinced that matt would've at least had 3 votes. jeebus. ~ cq
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 04:40 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
It's also a reflection of Burnett's evolving casting philosophy, where he picks wannabe media ho's instead of people interested in taking on the environment.The alarming moment for me in this series was when Heidi said she saw no reason to wear herself out working--way back when on the women's tribe. I have no respect for people who sit around when work needs to be done to get everyone the basics of survival, especially when that sitting around translates into doing better in the challenges. I guess that's been around since Gervase, but he pulled it off with more charm. I would never vote for someone to win who laid around and tanned while others gathered wood. I am surprised that arrogance was rewarded. But then, as you say, the jury was primarily composed of arrogant cocky people who let Matt Butch and Christie toil away while they mocked them. LOL, this is really a Bashers post, except that being aware of how Burnett's casting plays out in the end is indeed something for Spoilers to factor in for future editions. 
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 11:06 AM (EST)
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12. "Ongoing theme" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-13-03 AT 11:07 AM (EST)Hi, OFG! This has been one of the ongoing tensions of Survivor -- to work, or not to work. It not only is a good spoiler subject, but it's probably worthy of a thorough analysis piece. I'll have to write one for the news page, but here's a summary of it. The first two Survivors put a high premium on work. But the pinnacle was Africa. Africa was set in a BRUTAL climate, and it quickly became evident that you needed to keep workers around. Ergo, Clarence got to stay even though he participated in the "great food raid" -- while Jessie left right away because she was sick. Africa marked a turning point in the show, too. Burnett interpreted the decline in ratings as a sign that the hard work didn't come across well on the show. So ... he went to locations and ration setups that made life easier for the contestants. In Marquesas, there wasn't any need for hard work, which allowed Sarah (aka Princess Funbags) to do nothing except snuggle and tan. The fact that the winners there (except Vee) were workers was due to the revolution by Neleh and Pappy. Similarly, in Thailand, there was no reason to work, but the tribes were split more-or-less by age, and the older tribe ended up dominating. The Amazon represented the first time that the NON-workers dominated. This was a direct result of the boy-versus-girl split at the beginning. To keep the women from starving, Burnett made food plentiful, and the result was that the young women spent all their time tanning and flirting. Meanwhile, the men resented the older men ... and all of the older people ended up as targets. In this Survivor, Jessie would have been a finalist instead of the second one booted, as she was in Africa. Each game has had unique dynamics based on the physical environments and the producers' choices. It's only the casting to a small extent. In this Survivor, the casting skewed a little younger, and that played a huge role in the outcome, but there have usually been enough young people to create this outcome. Even in Africa, which skewed older, picture this as your final nine grouping: Silas, Lindsay, Little Kim, Kelly G, Brandon, Jessie, Ethan, Lex and Clarence. Except for Lex, they would have been all in their 20s. Now put Ethan against Jessie or Little Kim in the final 2. Think Ethan would have gotten anyone's vote except for Lex's?
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XXX Survivor 10 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 11:22 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Ongoing theme" |
Point well taken, but not exactly applicable. Maybe for the lazy ones, Alex and Heidi, it applied. But even (young) Dave and (relatively young) Christy exhibited good work ethics. Their reasons for voting for Jenna doubtfully had anything to do with their admiration for her laziness. Furthermore, even when the person is lazy I don't know if they are more likely to vote in favor of the lazy person. I do get your point though as some "workers" are bossy and thus annoying to the type B survivor contestant (e.g., Roger annoyed Daniel, Hunter annoyed Sean, etc.) but Matt, while being a worker, was not the bossy, demanding, type. He was the type of quiet worker that most other USUALLY respect regardless of their own work habits.
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AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-14-03, 01:48 AM (EST)
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20. "Disagree" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-14-03 AT 01:49 AM (EST)>Their reasons for voting for Jenna doubtfully had anything to do with their
>admiration for her laziness. Nor did I say it did. My point was that the jury skewed young because there has been no need to keep workers around since Africa. Sure, some of the people will have worked to keep camp going, but working wasn't why they survived. By contrast, even though Ethan was one-half of the core alliance in Africa, he worked like a dog. ARF! >Furthermore, even when the person is lazy I don't know if they are more likely
>to vote in favor of the lazy person. I disagree with this, although the evidence is scanty, since not many lazy people have made the final two. I believe I'd only classify Vee and Jenna in the "lazy" category. Not many lazy people have even made the jury. Look at my Africa "young" jury above. Of that group, five of them were in the real jury pool -- Ethan, Lex, Little Kim, Kelly G and Brandon. No Silas. No Lindsay. No Jessie. No Clarence. Instead, we had Mama Kim, Tom, Teresa and Frank. Picture how differently the game would have had to be played to make those changes to the final nine. Try this boot order, and see what a difference it would have made: 1-Diane, 2-Mama Kim, 3-Carl, 4-Linda, 5-Frank, 6-Tom, 7-Teresa. It could have happened, you know -- and things would have been completely different. >I do get your point though as some "workers" are bossy
>and thus annoying to the type B survivor contestant (e.g.,
>Roger annoyed Daniel, Hunter annoyed Sean, etc.) but Matt, while
>being a worker, was not the bossy, demanding, type.
>He was the type of quiet worker that most other
>USUALLY respect regardless of their own work habits. The difference is best reflected by the different attitudes toward Brandon's duplicity in Africa and Rob's duplicity in Amazon. I can't shake the feeling that this group thought of workers in general as suckers and work as something that only fools have to do.
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Brownroach 15341 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 05:44 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
People who sign up for the game now also all seem petrified to be seen as a "leader" or "threat" in any way. We heard both Butch and Deena mention this phenomenon early on. It seems that most people's attitude is that they would rather do nothing for 39 days, than ever be remotely perceived as having any abilities.
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ryl 16 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 06:03 AM (EST)
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7. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
Definitely, it was THIS group of jury that made Jenna win. Unfortunately for Matt, the jury consists primarily of Jenna's friends, it isn't surprising that she won since people tend to approve of their friend's "gameplay" rather that someone whom they hardly knew or feel threatened with or seemed creepy.If the early bootees had been on the jury instead, things may have worked out differently. Jeanne, Joanna -- value hard work. If they had gone further in the game, might have got to know Matt better while fishing/working together. Vote : Matt Ryan, Daniel -- aligned with Matt from the beginning. Daniel even said Matt was his only friend in Tambaqui after Ryan was voted off and he felt ostracised by the others. If they stick to the alliance, Vote : Matt Roger -- same tribe with Matt since Day 1. Will vote for a guy. Vote : Matt Shawna -- Jenna's friend. Vote : Jenna Janet -- I'm not sure about her I'm sure there're people who appreciates Matt's "gameplay". Butch said it.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 09:12 AM (EST)
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8. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-13-03 AT 09:17 AM (EST)I've said this in other posts and over time, reflecting Dick Hatch's observation from S-1: Remember that Survivor is more a game of social interactions and less a game of actual survival. It is the social interactions that will determine one's fate, NOT their survival-worthiness. Providing food has NEVER been a route to success in Survivor. Keith's cooking in S-2 would not have saved him, only Tina and Colby saved him. In S-4, John Carroll thought feeding the tribe would help him. It did not. That has been true here, perhaps more than ever. Matt's hard work was for nothing. His interpersonal skills were weak, at best. Everyone thought he was psycho. As to honesty, IMHO Matt's mea culpa speeches probably hurt him more than helped. Jenna's social skills (such as they were) were deemed more important, and better. Jenna did play the "honesty" card somewhat. But the premise that this jury composition helped her is dead-on accurate. Her alliance, she said, was destroyed... but that meant they were on the jury! Her friend Alex was on the lazy side... he won't hold laziness against her. Her good friend Heidi was ringleading the laziness brigade. Heidi couldn't have cared less about the work ethic. Dave wasn't around long enough to see her not working (and his social relationship with her was better than his with Matt, anyway). Rob was sunning himself before turning on Alex/Heidi/Jenna... certainly he values good gameplay over work ethic, and was likely impressed by Jenna's victories in the challenges. Deena also wasn't around as long... but her feminism in wanting a woman to win overcame the work ethic issue... and we can also probably say that Deena though Matt was psycho (as was pointed out in another thresd). Butch did vote for Matt, calling him the "true Survivor of S-6" (and I now take this to mean that he knew Jenna would win and his comments were to display his disapproval at the others' choice of Jenna for the "wrong" reasons). Only Christy's vote remains truly inexplicable, IMHO.
  
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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tanyafrommd 25 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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05-13-03, 10:32 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
>Deena, and maybe Dave, were Christy's
>friends when she got to
>the jury. They probably
>had discussions about voting criteria
>for deciding the winner.
I totally agree...... Christy never did appear to be a strong leader.... she always wanted to be part of the in crowd.... and once she became a member of the jury, I suspect she became even closer to Deena.......... Deena probably convinced Christy that a woman deserved to win......even if it was Jenna.
And they were right........lol You gotta admit....Jenna deserved to win after winning those last 2 challenges......the guys had basically dismissed her after Heidi left.....serves them right...........NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even if it is Jenna... I think she has done a great job of "damage control" after admitting that she appeared spoiled, and immature on the show... she probably has grown up a bit as a result of her experience. But poor Heidi has no clue..... she was still acting like an "airhead" on the reunion show..... I guess she was still trying to hide her high IQ..... I know...take it to Basher's.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-14-03, 08:01 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Disagree" |
I would think that the rules would prohibit ANY discussion between jury members of the game or voting, including criteria. I also think the jurors can talk and get away with it and MB's rules just keep them from openly deciding who to give it to.I also think that the jury should be allowed to see more of what goes on. We don't see everything at Tribal Council, a lot is edited out, but we know that Jiffy gives them a pretty good grilling. But even with that, just seeing them at Tribal Council doesn't give a jury a good picture. For example, a lot of Matt's hard work, especially after the shelter burned down, wasn't seen by many of the jury members. Heidi and Jenna's decision not to help wasn't seen. JP may have asked about it at TC, but that's not the same as seeing them just sitting there smirking as Matt works his butt off to shelter them. Furthermore, while Jenna won several challenges (and the one that the jury was allowed to witness), so did Matt. If winning challenges is a criteria for a vote (as some of us think it should be), then shouldn't the Jury see this happen? I'm not exactly for a Big Brother style ability to review everything that goes on in the BB house (like the confessionals), but maybe have the jury witness the challenges and hear some of the interactions that go on there. That might be a little more fair to both the Final 2 contestants, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-13-03, 11:55 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
Yes you are correct. Jury demographics are a big key. Deena choosing to side with the younger girls was critical in that it shifted the game over to the "young side", for only the second time in Survivor. (The first was Survivor: Marquesas, where a not-so-hard worker also won that edition)For the most part, the young-old balance will remain. It just depends which side would come out on top. A different jury might have given it to Matt, but then again, would either of them have made the Final 2 with an older crowd? I'm not so sure. (Matt would be seen as a threat, Jenna's laziness would do her in early) The important thing is to remember to be somewhere in the middle. Do enough work, but not enough to isolate yourself from the whole tribe. Survivor has nothing to do with real life "Survivor". It's a social game. Working together is also a *bonding* experience where you can form alliances. (Like Jeanne-Joanna or Dave-Roger-Butch) Or it can isolate you from the tribe. If you're foolish enough of a player to go fishing off alone or chopping wood alone, then you deserve your eventual fate.
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Snowbear 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 06:43 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
I agree. I think that Matt should have won the game. Matt is a true survivor. There is no way that Jenna could build a shelter, hunt for food or chop wood. She showed that during the show. You can't survive on looks alone baby!
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ryl 16 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson"
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05-14-03, 00:43 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Was it the demographics of the jury that made Jenna a millionaire" |
The results showed that you can. Which is exactly what I can't stomach. I find it "insulting", it's like "hey Matt you have worked so hard, fed us and built shelter for us but you know what, we prefer the sex goddess." Have to get over it.
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