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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
attention-seekers pretending to be one big happy PG/PG13-rated family. Don't
be fooled. Trying to get everyone to agree with you is like herding cats,
but intolerance for other viewpoints is NOT welcome and respect for other
posters IS required at all times. Jump in and play, and you'll soon find out
how easy it is to fit in, but save your drama for your mama. All members are
encouraged to read the
complete guidelines.
As entertainment critic Roger
Ebert once said, "If you disagree with something I write, tell me so, argue
with me, correct me--but don't tell me to shut up. That's not the American way."
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"What did we learn from S6?"
JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 01:04 PM (EST)
 
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1. "What we've learned" |
From Jenna: You CAN pick your loser.Brian was able to do it, and Jenna did too. Nothing says that because you win F3 immunity that it is the kiss of death. From Rob: You may need to change alliances. We saw it from Vee as she betrayed Kathy in the end, but never has anyone flip-flopped so blatantly and had as masterful control of the game before. Rob basically took Rich's alliances to the next level. From Christy: Commit to an alliance Non-committal is the commitment to get booted. From... lots of this season's cast, as taught by Rob and Jenna: An alliance may only be good for one TC, if at all... Also from this season's cast: Don't play your hand too soon. Isn't that right, Deena, Alex, Christy... 
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 01:29 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Alex - that even when you're 32 you can still fall victim to the cute girls and act like you're in HS. note to self: if ever on survivor, don't do this. it isn't cute.
Butch - not bothering anyone really bothers people. note to self: sometimes creating or going in on debate makes other more important players like you more.
Christy - obviously that you have to lie and tell whoever is asking whatever they want to hear.
Daniel - if you speak a language (not english) that someone else speaks, and you guys talk in this language, keep it secret!!! DUMB!
Dave - that cute + rocket scientist = too good to be true. oh, wait. about the game... well, he taught me about too little too late. he tried to make amends with christy way too late. last night before he was gone. nice try.
Deena - even if you're in the popular crowd, they still don't like it when you have your own ideas. better to sit back and suggest an alternative rather than take charge and tell 'em how it's gonna be.
Heidi - *sigh* girls are girls and girls are b!tches. watch out for them. keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Janet - know your limits
Jeanne - don't get mad, get even! (maggotty manioc! nasty!)
Joanna - keep your personal beliefs OUT, especially if they largely dissent.
Matthew - let people KNOW you're a player! you have to let them KNOW you *meant* to do things, or they'll think it was just dumb luck and not give you the credit, or the money...
Rob - i love rob. too bad he has a girlfriend now. but i learned from him what he said in summary at the reunion: know where you stand, know where others stand, and know where others *think* they stand.
Roger - don't be bossy! even if you're right, let it go. it's only 39 days. so what if it doesn't always go your way. so what if everyone starves or dehydrates. it's their own stupidity. just make sure *you* are okay without bothering everyone.
Ryan - was ryan the one who gave the "don't lie to the girls. we didn't catch any fish. don't say we did when we didn't" speech? if so, i learned, don't be so loud on the first day. and this game isn't about honesty, hello!
Shawna - never say you want to go home. never, ever. even if you do, don't ever say it. you might as well say "i am no longer interested in receiving one million dollars." who would say that???those are my takes... ~ cq
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ulalame 778 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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05-12-03, 01:30 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 01:33 PM (EST)I would add: From Deena -- be loyal to your allies. Imho, her decision to target Alex prior to taking out the misfits was her downfall. Generally -- weight loss spoilers once again proved very fruitful. Going back to look at the weight loss thread it's remarkable how almost perfectly right on it was. Of those with major weight loss reports (Rob, Matt, Butch, Heidi, Deena, Christy, Jeanne) all but one made the jury, and the rest made it quite far in the game. Edited to fix my link.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 01:47 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 01:51 PM (EST)In my opinion, this Survivor series turned many well-established patterns on their collective ear, to wit: 1) Pagonging did not occur in this series. The male-female split-up, followed by a tribe-remixing at a good moment, made for a dynamic unseen before. The players actually had to work it to the end! Made for some interesting play. 2) Crafty play really didn't get it done. The Final Two were people who hung on coattails or had their plans destroyed (Jenna admitted that her alliance was totally destroyed). The gameplay that won for Richard and Brian ended up failing for Rob on account of Jenna's immunity run at the end. In the end, it was individual challenge play that took Jenna to the promised land. In addition, three of the final four were hardly scheming gameplayers. Rob was, of course, as were Alex and Deena. But not Butch, nor could Christy be said to be a savvy gamemaster. 3) Rarely have we seen such emotions of personal dislike, and in some cases like, as this show. Christy's hatred of the Cute Girls has rarely been seen (although her inexplicable vote for Jenna at the end was stunning). Jenna and Heidi's feelings towards Rob ("feel free to write R-O-B on your parchment tomorrow night"). Dan/Ryan vs. Roger. Jeanne's feelings toward the Cute Girls, and vice versa. EVERYONE's feelings toward Roger, leading to his pre-jury termination. The only thing similar that I can really recall were Samburu in Africa, and Ted/Ghandia in Thailand. Oh, there may be more examples you can think of over time, but the levels of emotion seemed to be at a more frequent and all-time high here. 4) Related to No. 2 above, traditional methods of winning Survivor barely apply here. Brian and Dick Hatch won by gameplanning and control. (Rob might have fit in this category). Tina Wesson and Vecepia Towery had similar winning strategies, although Vee's was so deep-background we could never see it. Ethan had a method between Brian and Tina: get in an alliance, keep control, but keep friendly and just background enough not to get in trouble. Jenna's strategy, strangely enough, seems unique: Her alliance was destroyed. She never tried to be friendly like Tina. She was definitely rarely in control of the situation, and was often following others. She didn't work; in fact, she avoided and/or refused to work! Like Brian and Colby, though, she won challenges, especially when she needed them. If anything, Jenna won in a unique way: luck! As to spoiling, many of the old "rules" were re-written, but I think the biggest thing to come out was trusting spoilers that had no business being trusted. ChillOne, Milkshakey, etc., were adhered to until the bitter end (see Krautboy's final vote message in the thread as an example), even though they'd been shown to be false (and shown to be false time and again in the ChillOne case). And you KNOW when SherpaDave gets one right that something is amiss...  (Admittedly, my own theories proved humiliatingly inadequate, and will need close re-examination prior to S-VII). Last, but not least, despite everything seeming different, I believe that this is how Mark Burnett originally envisioned the game would be played! Dick Hatch set a different blueprint in the first series, that took MB five long series to overcome. Only now, with strong tribal and later personal alliances overcome, did the true gameplay of the late middlegame (as shown by Rob) become possible. Amber/Roger/Lis could've set the pace in Austrailia with an alliance to counter Tina/Colby/Keith, but they failed in their duty. Here, at last, was Survivor the way it was meant to be played. Will that continue for the future? Time will tell.   
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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evanakm 250 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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05-12-03, 01:56 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 01:59 PM (EST)We learned that being a mature individual just does not work. What a shame that Matthew could not win because he was willing to have some self respect. I had some hope that the people with more than a shallow personality might somehow finally make a statement. But it's not as if it is unseen on Survivor, the high school mentality sprayed its foul stench all over parts of S3 and S5. And S2 was nothing but a bunch of Alexes, Heidis, and Jennas; it just wasn't as obvious because there were no Robs and Christys to balance it out. I hate to say it, but I've lost all interest in Survivor after this atrocity. I may end up watching S7, but I was a huge fan of The Amazing Race, but the ending of TAR2 killed that show for me because it proved that you migtht as well draw names from a hat to determine the winner. And now it remains to be seen whether or not I'll ever watch Survivor again. I am sorry to say this, but even if you are a fan of Jenna, there is no way you can say she deserved or even earned the win, for the simple reason that she only earned two jury votes. I'm not going to get into whether or not she deserved to be in the F2, but she does not belong in the Pantheon of winners. A 6-1 landslide vote has nothing to do with whether or not she earned it. It just means that people were voting AGAINST Matt. Although I will give credit where it is due, it is not due here. - Richard won by acting civil to the jury, and he managed to squeak 4 votes out of it.
- Tina won by smiling as she stabbed people in the back, with the swing vote coming from Jerri who was unwilling to vote for Colby who she could not respect as a winner.
- Ethan probably shouldn't have been in the F2 in the first place, but he certainly earned his votes by being nice along the way. He also threw two of those votes away at the final TC, but he still earned the jury vote.
- Vecepia won because Neleh shot herself in the foot in front of the Jury, but the jurors were not voting personally, they were voting based on events in the game, and remained friends with Neleh afterwards. It was a fair jury vote.
- Brian was IMHO the best player ever, and the fact that it was 4-3 instead of 7-0 does not speak badly about his play, it just speaks well about his competition. Both Brian and Clay played to the jury as they were being voted out, and Brian was just better at it than Clay. But Jenna did NOTHING to earn a single vote. When she was up in numbers, she didn't want to work because she thought she was safe. When she was down in numbers, she didn't want to work because she was being voted out anyway. Then she has the nerve to say at Tribal Council that she was handicapped and that she worked twice as hard as everyone else to get where she was. That kind of behavior does not warrant six jury votes, I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. But let's take a look at where those votes came from: Heidi - Okay, I'll say that Heidi's vote was earned. Rob - Rob said that his vote was only based on the answer of his question, and I think Jenna told him more of what he wanted to hear. I won't go into whether or not that type of question is cheap, but Jenna played well into it, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that one. Deena and Christy - Their choice between Matt and Jenna was based solely on who had the fewest number of penises. I do like them both as decent people, but I lost all respect for the both of them. I'm not even going to touch the Marilyn Munster treatment from Jenna, but does Christy even realize that she wouldn't have even made the Jury if it hadn't been for Rob's willingness to look at her as a person instead of a woman? And let's not forget the fact that Jenna called Christy greedy for not getting any food at the auction, while Matt gave up a visit from his mother. And if Deena is such a femenist, then why does she want to promote the behavior of someone who is degrading to women everywhere? That is not feminism, that is sexism, period. Alex - What an arrogant jerk. He was acting like a bully at the final TC and the reunion, Matt loked shocked at the way Alex blatantly insulted him in front of a live audience. Forget this crap about him being closer to Jenna, I seem to remember him in a joint confessional with Matt. He did not vote for Jenna because he liked her, the reason was simply sour grapes. Alex's logic is real simple: if he couldn't make the finals, well, there might as well be a crap winner. Dave - Didn't Dave say his vote was going to whoever gave him the least BS? I think that someone needs to explain this concept to Rocket Boy. Either that, or he was just as full of crap as Alex was. It is fitting that last season ended with Jeff talking about John Nash, because I can take a scene from A Beautiful Mind to explain this situation. After Nash loses at Go, he says that the game is flawed, so that's why he lost. Matt was a good sport, but it was the same situation. But I've digressed enough. There are a couple things to be learned from the unfortunate ending to this season. First, after the merge, never give a mouse a cookie if you have an intertribal alliance. You have to Pagong a couple members of their tribe to let them know that you're the boss. Second, always split up a pair. Rob should have voted out Jenna or Heidi instead of Alex. Yes, Alex was more of a potential volatile threat, but better to leave a loose pair than a tight one. Third, it seems like a 4 member alliance is better than a 3 person alliance. Even though it is less stable, it not only gives you a little more breathing room, it makes one less enemy to vote off. And finally, I really wish this were untrue, but after this jury vote, I guess that the smartest thing to shoot for is a same-sex F2. Sometimes the mixed F2s break in favor of the men, sometimes in favor of the women, but it is just too unpredictable to guess who will vote based on gender lines. Yes, the immunity screwed it up, but I think Rob's game was next to flawless. He didn't have the luxury of Brian's breathing room due to the delayed merge which I still curse. Brian could affort to take a second to exhale and make all sorts of contingency plans, but Rob couldn't, and immunity burned him. It was an unfortunate ending to what would have been the best season ever if Matt or Rob had won. Edited for typos.
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 02:37 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
i just want to say that i totally agree with you on all the crappy logic that went into the voting for sole survivor.i laughed out loud (at work, embarrassing) and had to wipe the rainbow spittle off my monitor (i was drinking a mtn dew) after this: "Deena and Christy - Their choice between Matt and Jenna was based solely on who had the fewest number of penises." *LOFL* ~ cq
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Wacko Jacko 2438 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model"
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05-12-03, 03:01 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Argee with Boilermaker: That people that do no work around camp, rely on their beauty, treat other people like crap, and beg people to vote them off - Can Win a Million Dollars.Don't forget strip, use the I need the money more speech, give up their voting strategies early, and be a spoiled brat. I know I am forgetting more. But I've wasted enough time on this. What I have learned is that it's not about how well you play the game it's about how many friends you can make. Spend time talking to all the players. Matt worked his but off and even worked out a good strategy at the end but unfortunately it's all about voting for who gave each jury member the most time. This ending proved to me that the game of Survivor is very flawed I will never take it seriously again. I will never become attached to any of the survivors in this game (like wise never get angry and anything they do). Just watch it with the who gives a bleep about who wins it. Jenna was a disgrace to the show and will drag the future episodes down a notch. Survivor I predict will go two more seasons and it will be thru. S7's ratings will be lower and they will give it one more shot after that and it will be done because that seasons ratings will be even lower. I also agree Alex was an arrogant jerk. What was his problem?
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cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 03:07 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
"Survivor I predict will go two more seasons and it will be thru. S7's ratings will be lower and they will give it one more shot after that and it will be done because that seasons ratings will be even lower."I bloody hope so. I'm so angry at myself for getting so into a television show. I *knew* better. TV -always- disappoints. This one was a huge let-down. "I also agree Alex was an arrogant jerk. What was his problem?" I think a better question is, why does he bear such a striking resemblance to Jeff Probst, anyway? 'sup wit DAT??? ~ cq
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chillinmcmillan 44 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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05-12-03, 08:29 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
One more episode after Survivor 8...All Star Survivor, which I am saying right now that Rob will win!
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Innisfree 1 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-12-03, 02:57 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I've been lurking this entire season and I'm real impressed with all the minds on this board. I'll be more involved next season, I promise. I think Christy voted for Jenna because she thought Jenna needed it more. Jenna's almost-sincere apology to Christy softened her up a bit and then Jenna's answer to Deena's question indicated that Matt was playing for the experience, not the money. Christy probably thought that she was being compassionate by voting for Jenna because Matt had already accomplished his goals in the game by being the most adept at living in the rainforest and Jenna, who definitely cared less about being the toughest and cared more about the million, still has student loans and her moms hospital bills to help with. Also, I don't think that Christy voted based on gender because I don't think Christy would be as sensitive as Deena about the "may the best man win" remark or the men's general attitudes. Christy seemed to have lower expectations for women, or at least herself as a woman. She wanted to, and did, prove the capacity of deaf people to interact and compete at a high level, but in confessional, she said she wanted to be the last woman in the game. None of the guys indicated that they would've looked at being the last man in the game as an accomplishment (except for Rob wanting Heidi and Jenna in the F3, but that was a different motivation talking).
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 05:05 PM (EST)
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22. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
At the reunion, Christy explained that she voted for Jenna because she came to the realization that Jenna "outwitted, outlasted and outplayed me." Huh?? ME?? After some Jiffy probing about whether Jenna actually outplayed her opponent in the F2, MATT, Christy said that was possible, but she was with Jenna from the beginning, so Jenna outplayed HER, so she should win the million dollars over Matt, who only outplayed her for half the game. WTF???? What a stupid reason to vote for someone. I know, you can vote however you want, but that's just as dumb as pick-a-number and needs-the-fn-money in my book.
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-12-03, 05:00 PM (EST)
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21. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Agreed -- the alliance was A/J/H/D/R. No way were H/J going to give up their testosterone, it would have been just D/R, and then Rob would have been dead.
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steppingrazor42 283 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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05-12-03, 03:00 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
We learned that you can be a complete A-hole thru the entire thing, ride coattails, do basically no work, ask to be voted off, be selfish, and STILL win!!! What a joke! I wish Rob had won. Last night's final vote was a joke. I am PRAYING tha S7 is better, if there is anyone as annoying as Jenna I can't watch any longer.
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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 03:49 PM (EST)
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16. "This is reality TV" |
LAST EDITED ON 05-12-03 AT 03:53 PM (EST)1. I have learned that the most popular and beautiful people really do win.  (I should have been Prom Queen!!!!). 2. Nobody likes someone who acts crazy - even if you aren't. 3. You don't really have to work hard because someone will always be there to help out. Whether it be the worker bees or welfare! (Get off your a$$ and work!) 4. If I play to people's feeeelings, then I will win. After all, I'm needy and the other guy isn't!! 5. Doesn't matter WHAT your IQ is. Some people just don't have common sense!! Hello, Heidi! Anyone home? But seriously.... It's reality TV. Look at your life - and you will see a little bit of Survivor. Everyone has a Jenna, Heidi, Rob, Matt, Butch, Roger, Deena... etc. in their life. Life isn't fair and neither is Survivor.
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-12-03, 05:17 PM (EST)
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23. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I'm not 100% sure this is the right thread for this...
As a spoiling newbie, I learned something about trying to read juries. (Actually, I learned something about a lot of things – Thank you all!)Although I knew in the front of my brain that the jury was only seeing TCs, I was still imposing on them knowledge and impressions they couldn’t possibly have – not having seen the rest of the game. I wasn’t careful enough in trying to guess the way they would vote. When Dave was booted, Matt was still the weird outsider, Deena’s alternate target (from their reward getaway), and Jenna was one of the popular kids, and he had spent a date-night with her. The next to join him, Deena, still thought of Matt as a weirdo outsider, and had been aligned with Jenna. A player, we couldn’t be sure whether or not Deena would hold a grudge against her alliance, but we did know she’s a MAJOR feminist. Alex comes along, and at the time of his boot he, too, is an ally of Jenna, and thinks Matt is a weirdo outsider. Christy follows. She’s had a bit more contact with Matt than the others, but she’s a follower, and once she’s cried out over the stepsisters, she’s going to look to Deena & Dave to point her in the right direction. (Deena probably pointed out to her that Matt & Rob voted for her just as much as J/H, so she might as well vote for the ovaries.) The Porn Queen arrives next, and snuggles up again with Alex. She knows by now that Matt’s not as creepy as the others think, but as Jenna’s bestest buddy, why would she tell them that Matt’s a pretty cool guy? Butch, well…he’s Butch, steadfast and true. Rob -- I was surprised at Rob’s vote, but not shocked. Rob spent too little time with the jury for the point I’m trying to make. The only people that could have said anything about Matt not being a psychopath were Christy (never influenced anybody the entire game), Heidi (Jenna’s right breast), and Butch (no one ever listened to Butch). Next season, I will pay better attention to what juror’s feelings were before and at the time they were booted, and pay better attention to how well new bootees are likely to fill them in or influence them.
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frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-12-03, 10:34 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Tamarama, you've done a great job answering the question I have been shouting from the rooftops all day - - WHY???? Except for one thing... "Deena probably pointed out to her that Matt & Rob voted for her just as much as J/H, so she might as well vote for the ovaries." Deena would say "panties."
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Smartycat 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 01:01 AM (EST)
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30. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
We learned that Helen Glover didn't have the right recipe.
Apparently, dirty bikini bottom soup was a hit for Jenna.
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-13-03, 09:52 AM (EST)
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39. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
EEEWWWWWW!
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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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05-13-03, 05:31 AM (EST)
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32. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Although I'm extremely disappointed with the outcome, I am pleased to see some of the "old rules and standards" of survivor gone by the way side.With all the old rules out the window I was hoping that we would get an unconventional winner in Matt but instead we got the beauty queen er ah the swimsuit model. This may be the first survivor where a sort of high school politics played a role in who won. Very sad development. 1.When Dave left the tribe he had spent most of his time with Matt and KNEW how hard of a worker he was even if he was a little bit different. All he knew of Jenna was that he wanted to jump her bones(at less than 100lbs she was a mere skeleton) and that she was very lazy. His jury question was the worst one ever. 2.Deena votes purely based on man v woman...huh? 3.Heidi was a gimme vote and I really wonder what she said at loser lodge and if there was some "jury tampering" going on. I wonder if she played up the fact that Jenna really "needed" the money because of her situation and that Matt didn't. Her final question was predicable as his her personality. I don't care how high her IQ is, she is not that smart of a person. 4.Alex was a gimme as well. He was a jerk through out the final TC and at the reunion show. His constant head shaking was in poor taste and very immature. 5.Butch was a gimme. He asked the best question, although he did get the first shot. He at least showed some semblance of objectiveness. 6.Your vote somewhat makes sense as you would vote for the person who you believe bested you, and Jenna did best you in the end. 7.Why Christy, why? It's like going threw 4yrs of high school being tormented by this same girl and then you vote for her as prom queen over one of your misfit friends...huh? The jury voted for need, and the landslide in Jenna's favor spoke volumes. I mentioned this above but I wonder what went on at loser lodge. Where Alex and Heidi campaigning for Jenna. I wouldn't put it past either one of them. If this game is going to degenarate into who needs it the most then we just as well have a tribe of the very poor and those taking care of their sick and dying relatives. This vote amounted to jury nullification. If this becomes a trend then I'm going to be done with this show forever.
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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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05-13-03, 07:50 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I learned from S6 what I learned from S4 to now. As much as it pains everyone, Jenna won so she had to have done something right. No one says you have to like the winner and that has been a big mistake in spoiling the show and why over the past few seasons the winner was surprising to a lot of people. Throw all the standard editing clues out the window people, MB did when he did Survivor Marquesas, he is not going to "edit" the winner each season now based on prior seasons; he is going to edit the person as to who they are like em or not! Jenna was Queen of the Amazon, she used sex appeal (Helen of Troy, Cleopatra). Brian was a used car salesman and he fooled people of what and who he was. Vee was a silent winner because she moved in and out while everyone else created drama. Instead of automatically pegging the people I think I would like to win, I have to keep remembering to look at ALL of them as potential winner regardless of who I liked or disliked That is a big mistake - "they can't win, they are nasty, obnoxious, lazy, etc" That is OUR basis but winning this game is not about who WE like so I have to try to remember that and I got to remember also that physical strength/athleticism is not what always makes up an IC. Dismissing someone because they'd never win an IC is dangerous cause Jenna won four. Momma Kim won a crucial one etc. Key immunity wins will always help someone and those who we don't feel would even beat someone else in an IC is boxed thinking with the way MB designs these challenges.
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forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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05-13-03, 10:38 AM (EST)
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42. "social ties & market your strategy" |
>>As much as it pains everyone, Jenna won so she had to have done something right.
>
>This is a circular argument. If you win it's because you deserve to win and if you deserve to win you will win. I don't buy it. It may be valid in a perfectly designed game. But Survivor is far from that. I agree with VerucaSalt. I think the "something right" that Jenna did was in building social ties. It's not about what we think is right, it's the jury's perception based on social ties that matters. I think I'll be looking more for developing social networks during the game. Not a new thing really - Tina reminded us to look for who's sitting together etc. In fact, during the finale it struck me that Jenna & Rob were sitting next to eachother in the plane, in the boat to the F4 TC,... The other big piece is to assess jury's perception of game-play. We knew Matt was learning from Rob. Matt became a good strategic player, but only the viewers / Markopolo thread readers observed this. Matt could/should have marketed his strategy in front of the jury. >> Key immunity wins will always help someone
>
>This is my point elsewhere. When you get to the final 3 or 4, immunity becomes so huge that it overshadows everything else. These can take any form and are not always entirely fair. The last one, for example, favoured Jenna because women have a lower centre of gravity and can thus balance better. A whole game played well, with good thinking and strategy, goes out the window with one key immunity. It's a serious flaw in the game and should be fixed. Well, with the Amazon female theme, MB had to rig enough challenges to keep up the alternating M-F-M-F-M-F winner pattern ... forehead
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tamarama 1785 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser"
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05-13-03, 02:44 PM (EST)
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50. "RE: social ties & market your strategy" |
>>I agree that she deserved to win over Matt for the reasons you stated. That's not the point. She did not do "something right" to get into the finals. Even she and Matt agreed that Rob was a better player than either of them<<Although I'm NOT at all a fan of Jenna's (I'm sure my neighbor's think I'm nuts -- I shouted at my TV when the vote was read), She did in fact do something right. She won the 2 critical, final immunities. Just as the game is not all catching fish, it is not all gameplay either -- you have to win challenges. She did.
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Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 01:11 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I hope they never use the coconut challenge again. It is never fair for the targeted person to save themself. Dave never had a chance. The winner is always someone that was never in danger of being voted off.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 01:22 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I have to disagree about the last challenge favoring Jenna.She had to hold her headdress above her head, and that takes stamina that calls upon strength. Yes, she can balance better, but odds are that the guys will hold their headdresses up longer. And Jenna almost faltered twice, maybe three times, but recovered. The last challenge being the endurance challenge has been around for a long time, and is likely not to be changed. I also thought the maze was a very fair and equal challenge to everyone. Anyone could have won that one, and Jenna happened to.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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DoodleBug 5133 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 02:12 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I agree with the arms giving out on a girl compared to a guy, but what about the size of their feet on that tiny board. You can't tell me that Jenna didn't have an advantage there.
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DRONES 615 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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05-14-03, 07:32 AM (EST)
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51. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
I agree that the last challenges didn't favor anyone but I would like to see a return of the fallen comrades challenge. It would have been very interesting to see how well each of the final 3 did there.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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05-13-03, 09:31 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
When Dave left the tribe he had spent most of his time with Matt and KNEW how hard of a worker he was even if he was a little bit different. All he knew of Jenna was that he wanted to jump her bones(at less than 100lbs she was a mere skeleton) and that she was very lazy. His jury question was the worst one ever. I must respectfully disagree with just about all of this. Dave knew Matt worked hard... but he thought Matt was psycho. Dave and Matt were seemingly never in the same alliance, pre-swap, pre-merge, or post-merge. While Dave may have voted for Jenna because of her sexuality, I tend to think he just liked her better (I mean that platonically). Also, I don't think his jury question was bad at all, and may have been a deciding factor in his vote. Jenna answered it well; Matt stumbled through his answer. One thing about Butch... I think he and Heidi were the only two that congratulated the Final 2 for making the Final 2. I may be wrong about that. I agree about Christy. And I agree about the "need" issue (which was shown as early as S-3 with Lindsay saying Carl didn't need the money in the Ep. 3 TC). But I don't think it was jury nullification. It was a stacked (pun not intended) jury in Jenna's favor.
Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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VerucaSalt 1580 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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05-13-03, 12:01 PM (EST)
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43. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
And something else, despite all the work Matt did and perhaps was looked upon by the audience as more worthy/deserving, I think they were also looking at the fact that Rob assisted in him getting very very far. You can work like a dog but that doesn't mean you should win the game either. In the matchup of Matt and Jenna, I can see how the jury may have felt she got herself to the final two whereas Matt had Rob for a good stretch to keep him in the game.
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tspitzen 6 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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05-13-03, 02:35 PM (EST)
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49. "RE: What did we learn from S6?" |
Lie about having a sick parent/loved one, it may get you some votes in the end. You may be hated, but the votes will already be cast. I really think someone in the future will pull this.
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