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MFinShenZhen 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-07-01, 08:48 AM (EST) "Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" I assigned my conversational English class here in ShenZhen (southern China) to watch The Amazing Race this week, because I wanted to see their reactions to the show and the way China was portrayed. (We are one week behind the U.S. screenings, and they just showed the Beijing episode.) They agreed that the ping pong matches were not fair, and that the kid did not play well against Frank. They thought it was because the kid was nervous about playing on camera. They did not think that color was a factor. They hated the Guidos. There is one guy who has watched the entire series, and he described them as "troublemakers," and commented that they like to bully women. (Even the woman on the street in Beijing.) He specifically looked up the word "bully" in the dictionary so he could use it to describe them! The students also thought the way they were waving money at the pedicab driver was REALLY insulting. Maybe they felt either that they were accusing the guy of not trying his best, or they were rubbing the fact that they were rich westerners in the guy's face. I did not ask them why they thought this was so bad. The Festers and Rob and Brennan were the students' favorites. They guy who always watches the show said the Festers were his favorite, "Because they always have bad luck." I asked him who he hoped would win now, and he said, "Anybody but team three (the Guidos)." The students were also impressed by the Fester's quoting Buddha. They thought his words were "profound." Another guy liked Rob and Brennan because they were calm. Two students thought it was really bad that Frank and Margarita argued in public. One person thought Frank criticized Margarita because he loved her and did not want her to eat the bugs, and another student thought Frank was just rude and did not know how to cooperate with his wife. We all noticed they that most of the footage of Beijing was old stock footage. It was from 1995 or so. If you go to Beijing now you will find something that looks very different than what you saw on the show. It is very bustling, busy and lively with a lot of construction. People wear modern-looking clothes with lots of bright colors, not like what they showed on television. We also noticed that they barely showed any young people or children. Another thing is that there are no motorcycle taxis in Beijing. So this is not REALLY the type of transportation people would use. Also, only tourists would take pedicabs. A Chinese person wouldn't. One interesting thing was that the students said the show would be good for Chinese people to see because it would help teach them that people from other countries have different likes and dislikes than they do. For instance, most Chinese people where I am love chicken feet and squid, and they would never dream that a westerner would find them disgusting. That's why if you go to China, people will serve you stuff like sea cucumber and duck tongue. They assume that because they think it's great you will too. But this program showed them that maybe it isn't true. Another funny thing is that "bald man" in Mandarin Chinese is "guang tou." So it was Guidos vs. guang tous for third place! MF   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    Thanks Canada Girl 12-07-01 1  RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... sittem 12-07-01 2  RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... prime8 12-07-01 3  Thank you AyaK 12-07-01 4  RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... steven 12-07-01 5    RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... sittem 12-07-01 6        RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... indiansummer 12-08-01 7            RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... sctes 12-08-01 8                RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... indiansummer 12-08-01 9                    India kirin 12-08-01 10                        RE: India ann 12-08-01 17                    RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... Goober 12-08-01 14                        Chinese food steven 12-08-01 15                    RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... sctes 12-08-01 16                        RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... indiansummer 12-09-01 18                            RE: Even Chinese people hated the G... sctes 12-09-01 19                    Indian "sexism" AyaK 12-10-01 26                        RE: Indian "sexism" indiansummer 12-11-01 29            The Slighting of India ursusminor 12-08-01 11                RE: The Slighting of India indiansummer 12-08-01 13                    India and China racefan_asia 12-10-01 20                        RE: India and China sctes 12-10-01 21                            RE: India and China indiansummer 12-10-01 22                                RE: India and China racefan_asia 12-10-01 27                                    RE: India and China indiansummer 12-11-01 30                                        RE: India and China racefan_asia 12-11-01 31                                            RE: India and China indiansummer 12-21-01 34                                                RE: India and China sctes 12-27-01 37                                        RE: India and China sctes 12-11-01 32                        Detour non-completion penalty ursusminor 12-10-01 24                            RE: Detour non-completion penalty Cole 12-10-01 25                                RE: Detour non-completion penalty ursusminor 12-10-01 28  What a great post! RaceGirl 12-08-01 12    RE: What a great post! managerr 12-10-01 23  Glad you liked it! MFinShenZhen 12-15-01 33    RE: Glad you liked it! barcel 12-22-01 35        RE: Glad you liked it! MFinShenZhen 12-22-01 36

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Canada Girl 3340 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 12-07-01, 10:05 AM (EST) 1. "Thanks" Thanks for your analysis and contributions of what Chinese people thought of the show.It is very interesting to hear another culture's reactions to waht we've been watching. Be sure to share next week if you assign it again!   Top

sittem 4186 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 12-07-01, 10:10 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" What a great posting MFin!! It would have been great throughout the race to have had reflections from other countries as people from those countries watched the show. We have so little idea how our (Americans) behavior is perceived in other cultures so what you've given us is very interesting. I'm not very surprised by any of it - especially regarding the Guidos. Looks like their behavior stinks in any culture. The comments about ping pong and the kid being nervous at first seems like the right explanation to me. LOL that a Fester could be viewed as "profound"!! However, I think that reflects respect from the commentor that Fester would take the time to get a little understanding of something from their culture. Thanks for the insight.   Top

prime8 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-07-01, 11:11 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" Wow, thanks so much for your post. It was great to read yours and your classes insight. I am an anthropologist and needless to say, reading other culture's perspectives is fascinating to me. And, I agree with sittem; it would have been nice to read perspectives of people living in the countries in which teams have competed. Again, thank you for sharing!   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-07-01, 11:47 AM (EST) 4. "Thank you" MF, thank you for this wonderful post. It's interesting that those of us on this message board forget about the huge cyber-community out there -- we just tend to think of ourselves as being all US and Canada here. Then we hear from Ruthless and mark grace, bringing us the Australian perspective on the Race, and now we get the Chinese connection through MFinShenZhen. Are there more of you watching and reading this board from outside the US and Canada? If so, welcome, and please tell us where you are -- By the way, to start things out, I'll let you know that our four admin/moderators of this board (SurvivorBlows, IceCat, sleeeve, and me) are broken down as two New Englanders, one Californian, and one Canadian. I personally live in Lexington, Massachusetts, about a mile from where the first shots were fired in the American "Revolutionary War" (April 19, 1775).   Top

steven 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-07-01, 04:19 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" LAST EDITED ON 12-07-01 AT 04:19 PM (EST) Hello, this is Steven from Hong Kong. I'm a Chinese, too. Actually, MF is watching the Pearl channel in Hong Kong. As he said, we are one week later than US. Most TAR viewers in HK hates Guidos, too. Why? 1.They are SO rude in Beijing airport, by screaming at the taxi driver. I would say that every transport provider will most likely be screamed or treated impolitily by Guidos in the whole race. 2.Most viewers in HK love to see them lose, but they are so lucky(or the devil stick with them?!) that they are still in the race. 3.They cheated in the eating contest. They just half eaten the chicken feet, and many more. I still can't figure out one thing: Why they can pronouce "Park" in Mardarin? By luck or what?   Top

sittem 4186 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 12-07-01, 05:21 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" Steven - Thanks for your contribution. I think they could speak Mandarin because they had a travel guide which probably has some words in the local language to help out in getting around. They looked like they were reading from a book or guide of some kind when they were in the cab. They have traveled a lot before TAR so they know some useful things to do in order to get around.   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-08-01, 07:51 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" This letter gives me a chance to defend the Indians shown in the show inviting such commnts as"felt like bashing the old lady who kept nodding her head".She was so obiviously trying to please the "white sahibs" as is still wont.I have sometimes been overlooked in resteraunts etc so that they could serve a "hippie from the west in loin cloth".Sure there is poverty but there are also a lot of beautiful places,beaches etc in India.Just as new age revellers and other cults are not true representatives of some other countries "rat temples " are rare and not all of us pray "to rats".India is a vast and tolerant society and we have absorbed and assimilated from all other cultures.There are often seperate lines for men and women in cinema theaters.train stations etc.The man at the counter was obiviously telling mommily "to find the seperate line for women"(meant as a convenience often smaller lines ,often used my wife to get the tickets faster'.No Railway official in India would refuse to serve women.No we are not the taliban! The only Indian watching the show   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-08-01, 08:38 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" >This letter gives me >a chance to defend the >Indians shown in the show I think most of the people on this board are well aware that the show is highly edited to show us what the producers want us to see. I'm sure that many of the contestants are narrowly represented just as are the countries and cultures they are visiting. Would it be fair of me to assume that people in other countries who watch this show now think that all Americans are as insensitive and culturally ignorant as most of these contestants? That we teach our sons to kick national monuments and our daughters to curse at people who don't speak English? That all gay couples are prissy a-holes? That all young lawyers are honest and concerned for the well-being of others? C'mon, this is television.   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-08-01, 08:52 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" wow! was meant for those who seemed to be serious when they made such comments"I dont want to visit India because of the way they treat women"."they like rats more than humans"(not all on this list).Could be missed the joke ! etc.I dont take TV seriously.But must say of all the place visited India seemed to get the worst rap( maybe a wee bit touchy!).No offense taken!U all welcome to come and visit.   Top

kirin 30 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-08-01, 10:35 AM (EST) 10. "India" While I assume that most people in other countries are perceptive enough to realize that all American tourists are not going to be rude, pushy, overbearing or acting like these frenzied contestants, recent events in the world have given me pause. I suppose I never fully grasped that there are those that truly hate Americans and all that America represents. And in some ways, I can't really blame them for feeling that way. Having a tv show focus on Americans rushing around and belittling other countries and the people of those countries isn't exactly helping our image right now either. But, ultimately, one hopes that people all over the world who might watch an episode realize that it is simply a tv show created for entertainment, and at times showing the worst in human behavior. The contestants are exhausted, on edge and have had little opportunity to really look around them, or probably to even think about what they say and how it might come across to others. Saying that, I think that India was portrayed unfairly. While I have never been there, I saw little that made me want to visit. My overall impression after watching the two episodes? Lots of people, poverty, dirt and chauvinism. Is that a fair portrayal? I highly doubt it. I also have to say that being there did little to bring out the best in most of the contestants. Maybe they'd had too little sleep. Maybe they were hungry. Whatever the reasons, it was pretty humiliating as an American to watch them berate people for not having the answers they needed, making disparaging remarks, and wearing handkerchiefs. What I saw in those episodes was not a place I'd want to visit, and not the type of Americans I'd want to representing me in another country. Okay, ending here as I feel I have lost some focus and clarity. Hopefully my point comes across as I intend it to. As much as I have loved watching TAR, I have seen some things that make me cringe. ( Such as the poor cab driver in China beating himself on the head trying to understand the Guidos.) However, I realize its only tv and highly edited. I hope others all over the world realize that as well. I, for one, have really appreciated the comments of everyone with a different frame of reference than mine. Thanks! Kirin   Top

ann 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-08-01, 08:20 PM (EST) 17. "RE: India" I thought the scenes in India were by far some of the most interesting on the show and I have added the Karni Mata temple to my List of Places to See Before I Die along with the Palace of the Winds and the Amber Fort (everyone goes to the Taj). Drew and Kevin playing cards with the locals on the train was priceless as were Rob's comments on the train about other cultures and what an incredible opportunity it was while talking to the elderly Indian man bobbing his head. Emily swearing and berating Indians because she couldn't make herself understood was sickening. That was singularly the most uncomfortable moment in the show in my opinion. BTW, I ate a chicken foot at dim sum in SFO once and it was OK, just a little knuckly.   Top

Goober 209 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-08-01, 11:49 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" LAST EDITED ON 12-09-01 AT 09:46 AM (EST) "One interesting thing was that the students said the show would be good for Chinese people to see because it would help teach them that people from other countries have different likes and dislikes than they do. For instance, most Chinese people where I am love chicken feet and squid, and they would never dream that a westerner would find them disgusting. That's why if you go to China, people will serve you stuff like sea cucumber and duck tongue. They assume that because they think it's great you will too. But this program showed them that maybe it isn't true." Hi friends from Southeast Asia and all, Indeed that episode was the "Thriller in Manila" compared to this week's non-event. Sadly it was also the last we got to see of New York's finest legal beagles, Kev and Drew. The shot of Big Drew bunched up in a fetal position, covering his head as he tried valiantly to hold back his tears still gets to me. Here's hoping a wrap-up episode is in the works post-race. If you're listening TAR producers, we need some Fester closure here! On to the business of global food. I think fresh squid fried with a crispy batter coating is considered finger-lickin good by folks of most cultures and countries. Magarita might have enjoyed the dish had the squid not been fried plain. Chicken feet on the other hand (sorry couldn't help it)...hmmm... a soy sauce dip could have helped things along. Lord knows how the contestants managed to keep it down. I highly doubt even the locals have chicken feet plain. The gastronomic experience was evidently made to be as unpleasant as possible by anoretic producer Jerry Bruckheimer. When translated from Cantonese,(I could be wrong here) this delicacy means "Phoenix Claws". Which brings me to the topic of Team Guido. They're not really evil. They just look it. This is TV. I bet in real life they're chatty with telemarketers and donate big time to animal shelters, really. Their most priceless moment was the pedicab chase sequence where anxious blonde Guido kept flipping back the red screen veil of the pedicab to check on the Festers who in turn were hot on their wheels-- a la Ben Hur meets Crouching Tiger, HIdden Dragon. Blonde Guido remided me of a "traditional" Chinese bride on the run from an arranged marriage to a bald gladiator. Talk about east meeting west, that was surreal!   Top

steven 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-08-01, 12:21 PM (EST) 15. "Chinese food" >On to the business of global >food. I think fresh squid >fried with a crispy batter >coating is considered finger-lickin good >by folks of most cultures >and countries. Yeah! It taste great! >Magarita might have >enjoyed the dish had the >squid not been fried plain. In Chinese cooking, we don't fry a plain squid. Most likely will add some favourings, seafood souce, etc. >Chicken feet on the other >hand (sorry couldn't help it)...hmmm... You guys might need to have a visit to Hong Kong than. Because we knows how to make delicous chicken feet, and you might love it once you try it. >a soy sauce dip could >have helped things along. Lord >knows how the contestants managed >to keep it down. >I highly doubt even the locals >have chicken feet plain. No way, plain chicken feet is tasteless! >The gastronomic experience was evidently made >to be as unpleasant as >possible by the anoretic producer >Jerry Bruckheimer. When translated from >Cantonese,(I could be wrong here) >this delicacy means "Phoenix Claws". Yes, chicken feet means "Phoenix claws" in Cantonese. Damn, you are making me hungry now!!! Cantonese food rules!   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-08-01, 08:04 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" I'm sure that many people have gotten an unfair misrepresentation of India from the show, and I certainly can't speak for anyone but myself. I think it's easier to assume that most people can't think for themselves than that American viewers are more intelligent than to believe everything they see on a game show. If the people who made those disparaging comments about India were being sincere, then I can see how this would be so troubling. At the same time, however, I don't think one can generalize that Americans as a whole would perceive what they see on this show as a true representation. Some will and some won't. I probably overreacted in my earlier post, and I know your comments were more critical of the show's representation than the viewers reactions. I've run into a lot of anti-American sentiment from people who's main or only exposure to America is through the media. To assume that we are of a common mindset which includes believing that everything we see on t.v. is the "truth" sounds hypocritical to me. I'm not saying that you were doing that at all, but I think that's why I reacted the way I did. Without first-hand knowledge we can all make assumptions regarding what other cultures are like, as well as assumptions regarding what they think of our own people. My guess is that there are people all over who question what the media tells them, and others who don't. I'm often embarrassed as to how I think Americans are portrayed around the world, as well as here at home. I hope that people in other countries don't simply believe everything they're told about us, just as we shouldn't about them. In America, where we're supposed to have such freedom of expression and information, one has to make a very diligent effort to seek world news and perspectives outside of the mainstream media. People with alternative viewpoints are often ridiculed as well as being victims of intimidation and vilolent crimes. I guess I'm getting way off topic here, but the point is that while it's unfortunate and perhaps irresponsible of TAR to present such a narrow view of India, not everyone who watches this in America is going make the unquestioned assumption that this is an accurate representation of anything. As I stated before, I think even the contestants themselves are not accurately represented, let alone the course of events on the show. The rules are glossed over, the time-frame is manipulated, and some events have just been left out for one reason or another. Am I still hooked? Absolutely. p.s. Part of my whole rant was just so I could make the Lawyer joke.   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-09-01, 08:39 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" The whole point was that of all the locations in the show the one which invited the most adverse comments was India.I am glad some people liked the segments and would include some of the sites in their itinery.I dont think this is a question of the intelligence or objectivity of TV viewers etc.I also heard the Festers saying in a TV interview that the one place they would not revisit is India.They are of course entitittled to their opinion.This is not a new phenomenon.All countries and people have been misrepresented at one time or the other in the media.I think the point was to put some of the events shown in the episode in prespective and not to question the objectivity or intelligence of TV viewers anywhere.   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-09-01, 09:17 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Even Chinese people hated the Guidos!" I think the producers probably were trying to make it exciting by making it seem that the contestants were in an adverse situation or not handling it well. Based on the comment you saw from the Festers they were rather successful. I guess they tried to give both the contestants and the audience a certain view of India that was not very favorable. In their own minds maybe they even thought that were providing a humbling or educational experience for everyone. The contestants certainly were not shown at their best. I like the Festers but I think they expressed a fairly narrow perspective in general, not just about India. They wrote off Paris, for example, comparing it to SoHo. Paris is a favorite city of many people, yet the Festers didn't seem very charmed. They were even on a boulevard of exceptional ritz and popularity. This was also early in the race, and presumably they were not as burnt out as when they arrived in India. The main moments that I recall them expressing positive statements about their location were away from people and cities in general. Momily also made negative remarks about several different places, not just India. Too bad they didn't get to eat the chicken feet. I'm curious to see how F&M would have presented themselves if they had not secured the Fast Forward duing that leg in India.   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-10-01, 06:37 PM (EST) 26. "Indian "sexism"" indiansummer, thanks for the explanation. I, for one, couldn't figure out why the railway person wouldn't sell Momily tickets; it never occurred to me that there would be a separate line for women. Just for information, why would there be separate lines for men and women?   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-11-01, 07:39 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Indian "sexism"" it is a leftover of the Raj days.In theaters etc women have the choice to join the general line or if they feel unomfortable can stand in a seperate line.Actually it is a continuation of the old chivalry (ladies first etc some Indian feminists do oppose it).In fact it is men who resent it because there iare always longer lines for men.Most women these days prefer to travel in the general compartment rather than the seperate compartment reserved for the.MY point really was that as Government policy(Indian Railways is run by the GOVT) such discrimination will land you in lot of trouble as it is banned in the constitution.Society is different.Unfortunately still very patriarchial   Top

ursusminor 58 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-08-01, 11:02 AM (EST) 11. "The Slighting of India" Thanks for this post. I always appreciate the offering of opinions and clarifications which cause me to reconsider my own viewpoints and add to my own understanding. I might point out though that the Karni Mata Temple was offered as an example of India's religious diversity, which the thoughtful would not assume was part of the mainstream. As an aside, America aspires to religious diversity, but can you imagine how a Karni Mata Temple would fare in an American city?   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-08-01, 11:19 AM (EST) 13. "RE: The Slighting of India" Americans are actually well liked in India in fact taxi drivers,porters,hoteliers etc treat them preferentially to locals.Thoughtful people understand the context but I know of visitors to the US baffled that not everyone lolls around like"the baywatch team" or live in mansions like in "santa barbara"(two programs very popular here).I thought even the Guidos have thier defenders so wanted to throw in my two pennies worth for the motherland(not that a five thousand year culture needs my help).realize this is a "bashing board"'Loved the show and you guys are really entertaining.Dont want to turn it all too philosophical   Top

racefan_asia 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-10-01, 02:59 AM (EST) 20. "India and China" HI, I am a race fan in Singapore. We actually get to watch it the same time as in USA (it airs early afternoon our time - with a repeat in the evening prime time). I thought the the India episode was very realistic. I went there went I was just 16 for the first time and it is a big shock to the system - the poverty is just overwhelming. I really felt for Emily and Nancy as it was just so traumatising for them; a completely different world than they were used too - and no one at the place were at could speak English. This is only one side of India of course, but nonetheless a side that definitely does exist. The producers were very enlightened to bring the contestants there. And then there is China, a place I visit regularly. I did think the footage was edited to make China look quaint, old-fashioned and well Communist. Must have been cleverly edited as they somehow missed all the skyscrapers, shopping malls and smartly dressed people. But I guess its TV. There is one question that perplexes me though : the food market opened at 6:30am - yet the teams did not arrive at Tiantan Park until 10:30am. I am so surprised it took so long to get and cook the food and jump in a cab. 4 hours is an awful long time... The other thing was that it was light at that time...and it is winter...I am wondering if they started off later (remember the Festers had even had a Danish by then). I felt so sorry for the Festers...the run from East Gate to the South Gate is really, really, far. And I agree the Guido's did not finish the chicken feet. Thats not fair. But my biggest gripe is why Momily got a 24hour time penalty for taking a cab in Thailand...whereas when those evil scheming Guidos took a cab in Italy it seemed like just a minor time penalty! Anyway I love the show and was just hoping that the Race would come to Singapore. I know its pre-recorded, but I would just love to run into one of the teams ie. Momily and to help them out   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-10-01, 03:59 AM (EST) 21. "RE: India and China" >But my biggest gripe is why >Momily got a 24hour time >penalty for taking a cab >in Thailand...whereas when those evil >scheming Guidos took a cab >in Italy it seemed like >just a minor time penalty! It's hard not to see this as totally unfair, but Momily seemed to make the choice to "give up" and ultimately got what they wanted. I would have been soooooooooo much happier with the show as a whole if Momily had stuck it out and Guido came in last for real after beating them out for the FF. The fact that the Guidos will never go through the elimination process (outside of the bedroom, anyway) is more of a disappointment to me than the fact that Momily was eliminated. p.s. Sorry for the visual   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-10-01, 07:34 AM (EST) 22. "RE: India and China" There is overwhelming poverty,crowds ,pollution etc which can be a shock to the system but yet you can show a crowd as either a vibrant community or a lynchmob.Is there a different side sure there is.is there poverty,tenements etc in Tunisia,Africa China etc.I am sure there is.Maybe the urestricted access etc in India helped to potray it as it is ie cows,pollution etc.I honestly cringed at the way the people were potrayed.Honest or not from katherine mayos book to the city of joy there seems to be prespectives and prespectives.Mine happens to differ and I sincerly hope Amazing race 2 goes no where near there.   Top

racefan_asia 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-10-01, 09:14 PM (EST) 27. "RE: India and China" I actually think they showed it as it is. Most of the people who surrounded Momily's van were the kind of beggars that hang around most tourist sights in India unfortunately. I agree the woman who was nodding her head was trying to be nice, but the whole thing is really just freaky. I think what really scared Momily was that there driver too did not seem to respond to them or understand. All they had wanted to do was drive away from that group but he didn't. Once they got into a better neighbourhood they could have found their way. Believe me, I have been surrounded by such crowds too and it is unnerving to say the least. We saw the better side of India later when they were in Agra etc. If you ask me the producers did a very honest job of showing the real India...not some romantic V.S. Naipaul vision of it. Of course, there is much more to India but they did show the reality....remember this is a reality TV show not a travel documentary.   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-11-01, 07:48 AM (EST) 30. "RE: India and China" As it is for India but a romantic version of China?tunisia etc(have traveeled widely.When the French refuse to talk English it is Quanint Indians well they are freaky!).I hope you have the same tolerance when they show people being caned for minor offences,arrested for spitting gum etc!I would rather wander around with my cows and monkeys surrounded by non English speaking hoardes than in a controlled society.I respect your views but If you think Naipaul is a fan of Indian society you have not understood him(he is one of the harshest critcs of India most Indinas did not even celeberate when he won the Nobel prize)One visit to India does not make you an expert.I dont want to digress but will end with Mahathma Gandhis comment on Katherine Mayo's vituperative book "A drain pipe examiners report".   Top

racefan_asia 12 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-11-01, 07:44 PM (EST) 31. "RE: India and China" HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY COUNTRY?!! In Singapore no one is arrested for spitting, chewing gum much less caned for it. Chewing gum is not even banned. Just pure exaggerations. To say it is a controlled society is another half-truth. Our laws and legal system are inherited from the British and actually come from the Indian Penal Code. I am a fan and great supporter of India at all times - but still have to tell it as it is. India has a long way to go. And what makes you assume I had only made one visit to India? Big assumption there. For your information I had visited many times, had attended school there (The Doon School), and have a great many freinds there. Showing the shocking reality of India's poverty for first time visitors was what Amazing Race achieved. It is tragic that after 54 years of Independence such rampant poverty and corruption still exists.   Top

indiansummer 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-21-01, 01:32 PM (EST) 34. "RE: India and China" Sorry forgot all about this board.See how easily you loose your cool when somebody makes a judgement on your country.Just last week the networks here showed a programme on the "chewing gum thing" and a few years ago there was much ballyhoo about an American student who was caned for spraypainting graffiti.Actually I love singapore enough to marry somebody who was born here.Sctes yes I was trying to make a point about the sensitivity of people to such potrayal>My father in law lived for thiry years in singapore.The point was never about the poverty.It was about the selective potrayal of scenes.All of us Indians who watched it felt so.In Fifty years we have also send sattelites to space,emerged as a software power and numerous other things.Again to go back to Gandhi a drain pipe inspector only sees the filth not the people behind it.I am glad U liked India sorry it did not show in your earlier comments and how dare you condemmn my country!   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-27-01, 04:43 AM (EST) 37. "RE: India and China" >I am glad U liked India >sorry it did not show in >your earlier comments and >how dare you condemmn my country! I think you're confusing me with racefan_asia or someone else. I neither condemed nor praised India. I have not been there or to Singapore. I was just commenting as an observer of the show and the message board.   Top

sctes 53 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-11-01, 08:26 PM (EST) 32. "RE: India and China" LAST EDITED ON 12-11-01 AT 09:47 PM (EST) >I hope you have >the same tolerance when they >show people being caned for >minor offences,arrested for spitting gum >etc!I would rather wander around >with my cows and monkeys >surrounded by non English speaking >hoardes than in a controlled >society. Indiansummer: Are you being facecious about Singapore to make your point? Your comments seem to betray everything else you've said.   Top

ursusminor 58 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-10-01, 02:21 PM (EST) 24. "Detour non-completion penalty" >But my biggest gripe is why >Momily got a 24hour time >penalty for taking a cab >in Thailand...whereas when those evil >scheming Guidos took a cab >in Italy it seemed like >just a minor time penalty! This seems like a good opportunity to discuss the time penalty Nancy and Emily received for (willfully) leaving a detour uncompleted. From the team release times from the next episode, we know that a) Kevin and Drew arrived at the Tiger Cave Temple at 3:03 am. b) Joe and Bill arrived at 6:31 am. We also know that c) Nancy and Emily arrived between those two times, though we don't know exactly when. That would be about a 3 1/2 hour window in which they could have arrived. Given that, would a four-hour time penalty have been fair? Would a three-hour penalty have been fair? Either would likely have put them behind Joe and Bill.   Top

Cole 409 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-10-01, 02:32 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Detour non-completion penalty" Ursus, I see that you're fairly new here, welcome! Also it seems that you are either in Australia or Asia and see the show delayed. Regarding the time penalty, it has been discussed at length on one of the threads (not sure which one), but I think the point racefan was trying to make was that 24 hours was an awfully large penalty. Consider that other teams have skirted the rules before (the grandparents at the Eiffel Tower and Frangarita and the Guidos at the aforementioned Bologna train station) and they were given minor penalties that did not affect the standings of the race. I think racefan's point was that the decision to levy penalties, and the extent of them, seems to be pretty arbitrary.   Top

ursusminor 58 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-10-01, 11:00 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Detour non-completion penalty" Thanks for the welcome! Actually, I'm from here in Houston, Texas, from where I can tell you that teacher Leslie's Sunday paper she reads most often (the Houston Post, per CBS biography) hasn't published since 1995. I've been lurking for a bit before posting; wanted to read all previous message topics first, and does that ever take time! No, I hope I didn't step on any toes with my last post, as I know that the topic has been beaten almost to death. Just thought I had a small thing to add to it that I didn't recall seeing elsewhere (perhaps as a bit of comfort to Nancy and Emily fans?) Indeed, a lot of people do see the time penalties as seeming arbitrary, and I'm not inclined to argue with that at all. I myself feel that they are not, but I think I'd rather take that on faith than read through the three binders of legalistic text which hold the rules and any conceivable contingencies! To be annoyingly correct, Dave and Margaretta's Eiffel Tower penalty did drop them behind Paul/Amie and Nancy/Emily, though it would have taken only a thirty-minute penalty to do that.   Top

RaceGirl 50 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 12-08-01, 11:18 AM (EST) 12. "What a great post!" Thanks so much. I enjoy hearing perceptions from other countries. The fact that disliking the Guidos appears to be universal is an added bonus! Indiansummer--you are right--my reaction to the India segments was negative. I thought it did not seem like an appealing place to visit despite the Taj Mahal. I see this as my weakness though, not the fault of India.   Top

managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 12-10-01, 10:42 AM (EST) 23. "RE: What a great post!" No doubt that if any of us would take a trip to India, we would have a better time. Simply because most of us would plan for it, know where to go and where to avoid, learn about the culture, etc. On the other hand, if I were to suddenly go to India or any non-other Western-cultured country tomorrow without any advance information, I'd be totally out of my depth. I actually think Frank and Margarita would have been ok in India. Margarita would be smart enough to go to Agra, knowing where the Taj Majal is. That was the one thing which seemed to confuse people the most.   Top

MFinShenZhen 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-15-01, 11:19 AM (EST) 33. "Glad you liked it!" Hi -- I just want to say thanks to everyone who said they liked my post. Unfortunately, my students were not able to watch the show last week because they had a meeting. A couple things I thought while watching -- it was incredible to me that Frank would think they were supposed to jump a fence, and basically break into the area around the Great Wall. I was thinking it was lucky for him that he does not look Chinese and that there was a camera crew around. If he were Chinese, I believe he could get some lead in his butt (or at least, get it kicked) for that kind of thing. It was also a pity that we did not get to see much of the prissy Guidos on the public bus. Being on a Chinese public bus can be a harrowing experience. You often have people throwing up, people eating sunflower seeds and spitting the seeds on the floor, and people carrying live chickens in plastic bags. People probably stared at them and might even have touched them, and I'm sure their reaction would have been something to behold!   Top

barcel 2 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-22-01, 04:08 AM (EST) 35. "RE: Glad you liked it!" > ...It was >also a pity that we >did not get to see >much of the prissy Guidos >on the public bus. >Being on a Chinese public >bus can be a harrowing >experience. You often have >people throwing up, people eating >sunflower seeds and spitting the >seeds on the floor, and >people carrying live chickens in >plastic bags. People probably >stared at them and might >even have touched them, and >I'm sure their reaction would >have been something to behold! > I am a AM fans from Hong Kong, China. MFinShenZhen's first post is meaningful in the sense that it reflects (and sometimes quite correctly tells how the Chinese feel about the show). Yet, I must say the article quoted above is quite misleading. Bearing in mind the contestants were in Beijing, where whether you like it or not, a capital of a huge country. People living there are not country people! There maybe littering problem. Other than that, they are no differnt from any capital-inhabitants of the civilzed countries. This is not the time of the '70s where western tourists are not as easily seen. I can't figure out where MFinShenZhen get the idea of such clown-like characters because (save from the remote regions in the country) no matter ShenZhen (very south of China) and Beijing, westerners are no strangers!   Top

MFinShenZhen 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-22-01, 12:09 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Glad you liked it!" Well, maybe Beijing people are pretty blase, but people who visit Beijing from the countryside, in my experience, can get pretty excited when they see foreign people. I was in Beijing with a black woman and a red-haired woman, and people kept asking them to pose in family pictures! Even in SZ, most of the foreign people I know have had somebody reach over and touch their arm hair, kids pull on their beards, etc. According to the statistics I was told when I came here, there are only 400 non-Chinese living in SZ, which has 4 million plus people. That's not a lot. I often meet people like shopkeepers and taxi drivers who tell me they have never met a white person face to face before. I did not mean to talk about Beijing people in a mean way, in fact Beijing is a great city and I found the people there really laid back and hospitable. But, because of the crowds, etc., some people can't take it. I was curious to know what-all happened to the Guidos and how they reacted, that's all. I must say your attitude toward the mainland is a lot more positive than that of a lot of HK people I've met!   Top

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