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geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 12-27-02, 11:39 AM (EST) "Survivor casts and common sense" Hello everyone, this is my first ever post. I've been a loyal Survivor fan since the first installment, and i've been a regular reader of this website for the past 3 installments. Now that Thailand is over, a recurring question keeps popping up in my head as i watch each episode, and especially on Thailand i feel my comments/question is pertinant since we FINALLY had a decent player in the game with Brian. Brian "got it". Brian didn't care if he stabbed people in the back. Brian understood this was A GAME. Why do the contestants care so much about loyalty and the other player's feelings? They are there to play the game and try to win a million. Loyalty isn't part of this game, it doens't get you the cash. Yet we always get people worried about stabbing someone in the back. I simply don't understand that mentality. In the end, i was glad Brian won, and it was refreshing to see someone actually playing the game well. In Marqueses, Vee simply kept under the radar and won, although her getting to know every other player helped her immensely, and you have to give her credit for that. Same with Ethan in Africa, and Tina in Australia, they both kept under the radar to get to the end. Only Rich and Brian had a true game plan, and they both won. I'd be interested in other's comments.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Survivor casts and common sense MakeItStop 12-27-02 1    RE: Survivor casts and common sense geekboy 12-27-02 2        RE: Survivor casts and common sense frisky 12-30-02 3  RE: Survivor casts and common sense Bungler 12-31-02 4    RE: Survivor casts and common sense ADKer 01-01-03 5        RE: Survivor casts and common sense PepeLePew13 01-02-03 6            RE: Survivor casts and common sense ADKer 01-02-03 14        RE: Survivor casts and common sense geekboy 01-02-03 7            RE: Survivor casts and common sense Wacko Jacko 01-02-03 8                RE: Survivor casts and common sense geekboy 01-02-03 9                    RE: Survivor casts and common sense Wacko Jacko 01-03-03 15    Lex, Kelly G., and Tina FesterFan1 01-02-03 10        RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina geekboy 01-02-03 11            RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina FesterFan1 01-02-03 12                RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina geekboy 01-02-03 13  RE: Survivor casts and common sense Monnie 01-03-03 16

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MakeItStop 1098 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 12-27-02, 11:51 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" Welcome to SB geekboy! I think what happens is that the players form bonds. They are living together 24/7 and that is bound to happen. Some players, like Brian, stick with their plan to not let these bonds interfere with their game. And others ... well ... let their emotions rule their behavior. I think it is easy for us to say they should do this or that. I don't think we can really understand what they are going through. We may think that we do, but we don't. Just about every Survivor has said it is a life changing experience and that we can't understand unless we go through it. Maybe Shakes could shed some light on the situation. I think he had a game plan for Love Cruise, but I think he found out that people's emotions are a big part of the game. And then you have your bartenders, aka wanna be actors, that are completely useless and who don't care about playing the game. “She’s a beauty queen gone bad!” -- Marcellus about Amy.   Top

geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 12-27-02, 02:36 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" But honestly, what does this say about your 'general survivor contestant'? You can't deny that this is truly a game, not a social event. But then, you are saying that a very high percentage of contestants lose sight of it being a game. Granted, some are simply in it for the fun, and for the vacation, but i have to believe that most, if not all, would like to win the million. I would have also expected more people would come to the game like Brian as a 'business trip', wouldn't you? I understand your comments. I understand that a lot of people come out of it saying its a life-changing experience, that they learned a lot about themselves, blah blah blah, but i honestly don't believe them when they say that the experience they gained is worth more than the million dollar prize. I simply think that is them putting on a happy game face after they are voted out.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-30-02, 11:40 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" Hi, Geekboy! I think that at the time they get off the boat and start the game, each castmember fits into one of two groups: the Win-At-All-Costs Players and the Win-But-Without-Sacrificing-Integrity-and-Honesty-And-All-That-Crap Players. Both are dead set on winning the game in their own special way. The phenomenon you describe is perplexing. However, I think what happens is that cabin fever sets in. When they arrive at the site, they are thinking as individuals. They are scheming, plotting, and integrity-ing individually. But then, they become part of a group, a very close group unlike any of us who aren't Survivor alumnus can imagine. Now, there are several hundreds of books on the subject of the effects on an individual upon becoming part of a group, and I am far too lazy to look anything up in any of these books to cite here, but I'm pretty sure that something groupthinky is happening to change these headstrong strategizing playas into snivelling, shaky little grannies. I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Brians are more fun to watch.   Top

Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-31-02, 07:26 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" hiya geekboy... Richard - I hate him, but he deserved to win. Brian - I hate him (after the fact...based on some smugness I've heard about after his win), but he TOTALLY deserved to win. Kelly Goldsmith - Played a similar game to Brian, but got Lexed, an egomaniac who had no idea how to play the Survivor game. Deserved to win. John Carroll - Played Brian's game, but then switched to Richard's game (i.e. he let his inflated ego loose) when his alliance's strength was becoming clear. I wanted him to win, but he shouldn't have mixed up his game plan. Tina Wesson - played Tina's game, and in my opinion is the only Survivor ever to play a sharp, ruthless game, but with integrity. Most deserving Ultimate Survivor yet, in my opinion. Ethan Zohn - Blandly niced his way into the million. Second most undeserving winner ever in my opinion. He bored me to tears. Vecepia Towery - played a weird combination of Ethan and Brian's game. I guess you could argue that she played Tina's game too, but I don't agree with that one. She niced her way into the end, a la Ethan, although I don't believe she was nice at all (she just ducked the dramas, and got to know people). She reminded me of Brian, in that she did the non-commital agreement thing whenever she was drawn into a drama. But in the end, I think she helped direct a few knives into the backs of those whore weren't smart enough to avoid the fray. I don't think there's any one way of winning, but I have to admit that I like Tina's the best.   Top

ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-01-03, 10:47 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" I think that a partial explanation for the behavior of the casts is that the physical deprivations, lack of food, water, creature comforts, make the whole experience very real. Expecially in Africa and Australia, the cast appeared to experience severe physical hardship. I think of Brian as the anti-Colby. They were both dominant players but Brian was there, above all else, for the money. Colby placed greater value on his integrity. I guess they were both true to themselves with very different values and outcomes. Brian deserved to win but I prefer to watch a player like Colby. Greed is common; integrity is not.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-03, 08:41 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" I'd submit that you can always have your integrity in your real, everyday life... however you've got an once-in-a-lifetime chance to win a million dollars and make yourself that much more financially secure for your family, so people will do things they don't normally do at home/work for the sake of winning. I would safely bet that if Colby was where he was (deciding between Tina and Keith at the F3 TC) WITH a wife and two or three kids and they weren't doing so hot financially... he'd have picked Keith instead. Let's not forget that at the time in the game, most of the others didn't have a beef with Brian at all because he played the game well and for all of Helen's smoke-blowing at the final TC, she did after all vote for Brian -- a guy who showed a lot more integrity than Clay did. And speaking of integrity... both Ted and Helen talked about the pecking order behind Brian/Clay/Jan's backs, and Helen didn't go up to Brian to let him know about what had transpired if she truly was with him.   Top

ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-02-03, 08:16 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" This reminds me of a joke that my first employer liked to tell: There was a wealthy old man who said to an attractive young woman "Will you have sex with me for one million dollars?" The young woman mulled it over: "Just one time for a million dollars? .... Well, I guess I will" To which the old man replied "Well, will you have sex with me for $50?" The young woman was offended "What kind of a woman do you think I am?" The old man said "We have already established that you will do it for money; Now we're just quibbling over the price."   Top

geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-02-03, 09:10 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" So, you're saying Colby wasn't there for the money? Or are you saying that playing Survivor with the sole intention of winning the million dollar prize lacks integrity? Come on.... I'd say that both had integrity, but Colby was much more a touchy-feely person. Brian knew what he wanted, and he got it. Bravo.   Top

Wacko Jacko 2438 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 01-02-03, 11:52 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" My view on how Brian played the game is pretty much the same as yours. I think hindsight is 20-20. He didn't play a perfect game. I think he was too focused on eliminating the other contestants that he forgot some of the things that are also important in winning the game. One is getting to know all the castaways. The other is just being honest. He tried to turn everything around on those he eliminated. He could've just said to Ted and Helen that he was playing the game and that he thinks highly of both of them and was sorry what he had to do. The problem was he was lying them but he tried to make it look like it was Helen and Ted's fault they were eliminated. Brian also could of told Ted he had a plan and that Ted was working on destroying his plan. He could've told Helen that he might not of beaten her. When it was all done. Clay blew it. He should of won but he for one should of answered helen's question. I think if he would of told Helen three things he did to help out she would of voted for him. Clay said it didn't matter because Helen was so mad. But that is wrong she was just as mad at Brian. plus, if Clay would've answered that question he could've gotten someone elses vote. Helen wasn't the only one hearing his answer. That was really stupid on Clay's part.   Top

geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-02-03, 12:00 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" Jacko - I think we pretty much agree, roughly 80%. Part of the game of survivor is deception (aka lying) so i have no problem with how Brian played the game. I think he played excellently, the best since Richard Hatch, and i think he could show Richard a thing or two. I do agree that he didn't take a page from Vee and get to know as much about the others as he should have. On the other hand, deception and honesty do not go together. He was honest with Clay, who was his #2 all along. I think that is the ONLY person you can be truly honest with in the game. I agree Clay blew it, but i do not agree he should have won. Brian outplayed him, and i was surprised it was a 4-3 vote. geekboy   Top

Wacko Jacko 2438 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 01-03-03, 02:28 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" I agree Brian was the better player, but he had many holes in his game plan and Clay if he played it right could of won. Both faired really bad in their interrogations. Brian played the turn-everything-around-on-the-other-player game. Plus knowing that Sook Jai would have 4 jury members and CJ having only 3 he should of played the game better with the SJs. Clay played the SJ game more superior than Brian except Clay also blew it when he blew up at Jake.   Top

FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-03, 12:40 PM (EST) 10. "Lex, Kelly G., and Tina" Bungler, I have loads of respect for ya, but I have to disagree with a couple of things here. Kelly Goldsmith - Played a similar game to Brian, but got Lexed, an egomaniac who had no idea how to play the Survivor game. I'm not quite sure why you think Lex "had no idea how to play the...game". He alone couldn't have axed Kelly. Clearly Kim J., Tom and Ethan all had their doubts about Kelly and listened to Lex. I'd argue that the ability to get others to do your bidding is pretty good game playing. It worked for Rich, Tina and Brian. The timing may have been bad, but in the end it didn't hurt him. Lex's downfall had nothing to do with his strategy. It had everything to do with his physical inability to win the F3 IC. Had Kim J. not won the F4 and F3 ICs Lex had a very good shot at winning S3. Kelly, OTOH, was very foolish with the way she conducted herself after the merge. She talked to people outside her tribe, and it made people think she was up to something. Lex didn't pull her name out of thin air. He was wrong, but his instincts weren't. If she didn't betray him then, she would've sooner or later. Her inability to get anyone to side with her shows how little the rest of the tribe thought of her. She knew she was going, yet she couldn't sway anyone to save her. All she had to do was convince Ethan, Tom, or Kim that Lex was wrong (which he was). She couldn't do it. Doesn't sound like someone deserving of a win to me. Tina Wesson - played Tina's game, and in my opinion is the only Survivor ever to play a sharp, ruthless game, but with integrity. Most deserving Ultimate Survivor yet, in my opinion. I hear this a lot, and I just don't see it. The only difference between Tina and Rich/Brian is that Tina smiled as she put the knife in people's backs. Ask Mad Dog, Mitchell, Jerri, and Amber about whether Tina played with integrity. Personally, I think the whole "integrity" thing is bunk. You can not win this game without being disingenuous at some point. It can't be done. So why split hairs about whether someone played "as ethically as possible". If your lack of ethics outweighs your gamesmanship, then you won't win. Plain and simple. Brian lied his ass off in Thailand and still won. It makes him unlikable, but not any less of a winner, IMO. Tina gets a pass because she was such a good schemer, she got to know everyone and was able to schmooze her way out of her betrayals. Good for her, but it doesn't mean she played any more ethically than Rich/Brian, just a whole lot shrewder. Fester   Top

geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-02-03, 02:13 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina" Fester- You have it exactly right - there is no place for integrity in this game. This is what bothers me so much, with the majority of people afraid to hurt anyone's feelings. The fact that people try to play this game with integrity is what shoots them in the foot in the end. You have to lie and manipulate. Its a game, for God's sake. But, you also have to lie strategically and be able to plan out the 16 weeks, then eventually change you plan after a few weeks and a few surprises, etc. This is what Richard and Brian did so elegantly. This also raises another big question in my head - why the tendency to do the 'Pagong-ing' post merge? Again, it seems like there would be some advantage to realign your strategy post-merge, and possibly take a few of 'your own' out. But Brian didn't do that, so i suspect he felt the sookies were the biggest threat??? It would be a good question to raise to him. Geekboy   Top

FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-02-03, 02:34 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina" This also raises another big question in my head - why the tendency to do the 'Pagong-ing' post merge? Again, it seems like there would be some advantage to realign your strategy post-merge, and possibly take a few of 'your own' out. I would imagine it's a devil you know vs. the devil you don't situation most times. It was done in S4, but came back to bite Neleh in the end. Tina and Colby wanted to oust Keith pre-F3 in favor of Rodger and Lis, but couldn't do it for fear of a tie in the F4. It really would have to obviously benefit those defectors from the dominant tribe. Otherwise it's too much risk for too little reward. This is what MB is up against. He keeps trying to create scenarios where players have more and more interaction time with players not from their original tribe. The problem is that many of these alliances (and certainly the bonds) are made in the first 7 days. This is why I really think all 16 will live on the same beach from Day 1 for S6. But Brian didn't do that, so i suspect he felt the sookies were the biggest threat??? It would be a good question to raise to him. It didn't make any sense for Brian to cut Helen, Ted and Jan loose earlier than he did. He had all 3 of them eating out of the palm of his hand. Why mess with that? If he had inklings that Helen and Ted were going behind his back, he may have tried to cook something up, but that's all speculation. If he alone had jumped ship to SJ, it would've been suicide. Even if he made the F2 by some miracle, he wouldn't have gotten a single vote from his old CG buddies. Fester   Top

geekboy 1788 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-02-03, 02:40 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Lex, Kelly G., and Tina" Fester - Your analysis makes sense, i guess its just me hoping for more surprises each week. This season was quite predictable from the get go. I agree all 16 on the same beach is what will likely happen, based on the success of adding more drama this season. I would like to suggest to MB to take it a step further, and dump the whole notion of two tribes, and just have 16 people competing. In a way, the tribe thing and the subsequent pagong-ing detracts from the mystery, i believe. Maybe in S7... Geekboy   Top

Monnie 25 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 01-03-03, 10:49 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Survivor casts and common sense" Hey I am new too! I think everybody has some sort of strategy no matter how small when they begin Survivor it may be to be quiet and lay low or it may be to be funny and make everybody like you there are all different strategies and not just rich and brian had game plans I think Tina and Vee had game-plans also just not as noticiable however Ethan didn't really have a game plan in my opinion   Top

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