Email this topic to a friend Printer-friendly version of this topic Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)		Archived thread - Read only  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Conferences Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)
Original message

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 10:08 AM (EST) "Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Last week, I was so impressed with Ian's strategy that I said he was "looking good and smelling like a rose". This week, to use Jeff's words, he's "reeking" again. It was like a different person was playing the game last night, or maybe last week's great strategy was the fluke. Ian and Tom started out recognizing that they couldn't leave the three women alone on the island if one of the two guys won the RC. The only disagreement Ian and Tom seemed to have was about who to take with him on the reward. Not leaving the three women to plot a takeover and having a man at each site to keep track of things and for recruitment was certainly the only way to go......BUT then when Ian won, he said that he'd promised Tom if it was a car reward, he'd take him (I assume this is because the guest has sometimes gotten a car, too, in the past) but Tom specifically said last week that they weren't going for the icing, they wanted the whole cake. So,Ian, I really can't believe you created such an untenable situation for yourself on the possibility that there might be a second car. Where was the bigger picture? I have to say, that at the end of last week, I was rooting for you or Tom to win it all but after all the potentially fatal flaws you created last night, endangering Tom's game as well as you own, and despite my lack of respect for Caryn, I hoped that when Jeff read the votes, the name we'd hear as the next juror was yours. A Corvette is a fabulous prize but you won't be driving it to the bank to cash a million dollar check!   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... bostonrobfan 05-13-05 1    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... Angelfood 05-13-05 2  RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... Andromeda 05-13-05 3    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... bostonrobfan 05-13-05 4        RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... Andromeda 05-13-05 5            RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-13-05 8            RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... protagonist 05-13-05 13    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... snoopy 05-13-05 6    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-14-05 25  RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... KyleMan_200 05-13-05 7    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... arturbars 05-13-05 9        RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... KyleMan_200 05-13-05 11  Ian wants the title of Mr. Congenia... Andromeda 05-13-05 10    RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Cong... RealityMom 05-13-05 12        RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Cong... trudy 05-13-05 14            RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Cong... tvgeek401 05-13-05 15            RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Cong... Incognito9 05-13-05 18                RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Cong... J Slice 05-14-05 35  RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... Loquatrix 05-13-05 16    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-13-05 17  RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... ctheshow 05-14-05 19    Ian is Katie's ticket to the final ... Andromeda 05-14-05 20        RE: Ian is Katie's ticket to the fi... Loquatrix 05-14-05 31            RE: Ian is Katie's ticket to the fi... RealityMom 05-14-05 34    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-14-05 21        RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... Andromeda 05-14-05 26            RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-14-05 33  RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-14-05 22    RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... becca 05-14-05 23        RE: Ian, did you forget you're goin... RealityMom 05-14-05 24            Caryn on Survivor Live? Andromeda 05-14-05 27                RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? RealityMom 05-14-05 28                    RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? Andromeda 05-14-05 29                        RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? RealityMom 05-14-05 30                            RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? becca 05-14-05 32                                RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? RealityMom 05-15-05 38                            RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? Andromeda 05-15-05 36                                RE: Caryn on Survivor Live? RealityMom 05-15-05 37

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

bostonrobfan 490 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-13-05, 11:32 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Ian really blew it last night. Not only did he take Tom when he was supposed to take one of the girls, but he basically told Katie their whole strategy. I think Tom realizes Ian can't be trusted. Not because he's sneaky, but because he has diarrhea of the mouth.   Top

Angelfood 2114 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 05-13-05, 11:41 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" LOL brf! so true. He does. I was happy that Ian shaped up last week, but I wasn't shocked by last night - he's been kinda sweet and clueless for awhile.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-13-05, 12:47 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" I have been rooting for Ian since day one, but I have to be realistic at this point and admit that Ian really blew it last night. For the past several weeks his odds of winning have steadily declined, and last night was a turning point for him in that I believe it will be nearly impossible for him to win at this point. His inevitable failure is based largely on two shortcomings: his refusal to break promises and his inability to lie. Being a bad liar is not necessarily a game-breaking flaw, but his obsession with keeping his word will be the end of him. It was his refusal to break promises that put him in such a precarious situation last night. After he won the reward challenge he was faced with a tough decision: break a promise he had made to Tom or break a promise he had made to Katie. Obviously it was impossible to keep his word to both of them at this point so he had to weigh his promises. Apparently he had been telling Katie all day that he would take her with him if he won the reward challenge, but Ian had previously promised Tom that if the reward involved a car he would take him. Here's the clincher: he shook hands with Tom when he made that promise. Apparently a promise given that includes a handshake trumps a promise given only verbally. Essentially, Ian and Tom's previous "handshake" overruled the plan they made that morning to not take each other as a companion should one of them win the reward challenge. I can't put the blame completely on Ian, though, because even though he was so short-sighted that he chose Tom when good strategy would have dictated otherwise, Tom let him. Tom is a good player and I was shocked that he didn't say something to the effect of, "Ian, I really appreciate the gesture but you've spent all day promising Katie that you would take her so I think it's only fair that you choose Katie." The argument that Ian had with Katie after he got back from reward was bizarre, at best. I can fathom someone getting upset when they are accused of being a liar or of breaking a promise, but Ian's reaction to Katie's accusations was over-the-top. I couldn't believe how he was groveling! "I'll be your friend for the rest of your life, if you'll let me," and "if you want me to step out of the game, I will." The hell? I wanted to smack him! Ian, you've got to keep your eyes on the prize! This is a direct quote from Ian from a clip on the Survivor Insider this week: "A good friend is more important than a million dollars." I think that says it all. That is an admirable sentiment, and in the "real world" I would say that someone who values friendship over money definitely has their priorities straight. However, this is SURVIVOR and if you didn't come to win the million, WHY are you even THERE? Katie isn't stupid. Now that Ian has exposed his soft underbelly to her I think she will play him like a fiddle. In my opinion, Ian has assured Katie a spot in the final two. Ian will make SURE that she's not the next one to go, and once she's in the final three she's a shoo-in. I see four possible scenarios and in every one Katie ends up in the final two. 1. Katie wins final immunity. (unlikely) If she wins final immunity she automatically makes the final two. 2. Ian wins final immunity. (possible) He takes Katie. Ian WILL take Katie if he wins final immunity. He PROMISED her. 3. Tom wins final immunity. (probably) He takes Katie. I think it's more likely that Tom will take Katie than Ian. 4. Tom wins final immunity. (probably) He takes Ian. Now this would be the most interesting scenario. If Tom chooses Ian I think that Ian will "step down" so that Katie can have his place in the final two. In fact, I would put money on it. ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

bostonrobfan 490 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-13-05, 12:52 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" >>Ian's reaction to Katie's accusations was over-the-top. I couldn't believe how he was groveling! "I'll be your friend for the rest of your life, if you'll let me," and "if you want me to step out of the game, I will."<< I think Ian has a serious crush on Katie, maybe even thinks he is in love with her.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-13-05, 01:23 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" If anyone would have suggested this possibility before last night's episode, I would think such a theory ridiculous. However, I now think that this is not only possible, but probable. I pegged Ian early on as the type of person who was loathe to break a promise to anyone. Some people get really, really upset when they have to go back on their word or when they have to lie. Even though Ian seems to be that type of person, his reaction to Katie last night was beyond the pale. If he is not in love with Katie, his behavior defies explanation. ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 01:40 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Hey, Andromeda, Good to chat with you again! Ian seemed so level-headed in his feelings about Katie last week. He realized when she put him out during the challenge that she might be turning and he acted accordingly. So did something happen between them in just the next day or two that we're not seeing- something that meant a lot more to him than to her because their scuffle or whatever was definitely over the top. Why didn't he stand up for himself more and remind her that she didn't hold promises she'd made to such a high standards. Any respect for him I had last week went right out the window (or in the Corvette's case- flew out ) after his dismal showing yesterday.   Top

protagonist 101 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-13-05, 05:25 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" I called it last week when I saw the preview for this weeks show: Iam is SO in love with Katie. Those tears and pleading words were NOT that of simply "just a friend." You would only get that emotional over someone who was more than a friend. I am not sure what is going on with them, if anything really is at this point. But I am pretty near sure that Ian feels something for Katie. It's kind of cool because it's always been so apparent when people hook up on this show but they try to hide it sometimes or say nothing is going on or say we are here to play the game (Jenn and Greg, Rob and Amber there's more just forgot names). This is the first time we suspect strong feelings from Ian and possibly Katie but nothing can be confirmed--so it is very dramatic and new for Survivor! Different is good!   Top

snoopy 7 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-13-05, 01:36 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" the emotion was alittle too sickening last night. OK - Jen is the first one gone (though either Ian or Tom would be smart to get rid of the other and keep the women since the final immuninity is always a stamina task which either of them can beat the women. (although one season it was a quiz ) If jen goes and one of the guys wins final immunity your right they will take katie with them since she's pisssed off and double crossed quite a few poeple (greg, jen karen). They would stand a better chance against her. In a head to head tom v Ian. Tom wins (better competitor and the whole NYC fire fighter sentimentality)   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 11:17 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Andromeda, I've been thinking about Tom's not declining the reward since it happened because both my husband and I had the same reaction you did- remind Ian subtly what they'd agreed on by telling Ian he should take Katie instead. What I've decided is that he was momentarily so blinded by the thought that another car might be waiting for him that he didn't react strategically. At least a car is better than jumping in the water for some pizza! (and I'm a huge Stephenie fan)   Top

KyleMan_200 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-13-05, 01:37 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" I already had the feeling that Ian had crushed pretty hard on Katie, but your so right there is no other explanation for his behavior than he's in love with her. By all aperances Ian is a wonderful person, kind, loyal, upstanding, true to himself and his word. Problem is while this makes him a great friend and person, it doesn't do much for winning survivor. Taking Tom on the reward had to be one of the biggest bone head blunders ever. That being said somehow Tom and Ian or both still there.   Top

arturbars 605 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 01:44 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" > That being said somehow >Tom and Ian or both >still there. Only becasue Caren turned out to be just as big of an idiot as Ian!   Top

KyleMan_200 10 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-13-05, 02:22 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" >Only becasue Caren turned out to >be just as big of >an idiot as Ian! Caryn didn't have any options. Once Ian and Katie patched their littel tiff (otherwwise known as the over inflated tear jerking drama fest) she was the odd one out. Tom had imunity, Ian and Katie were not going to vote against one another. in order for her to effect things she would have had to pull of a Caryn, Tom, and Jen final 3 plan.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-13-05, 02:11 PM (EST) 10. "Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" Hi, RealityMom! I usually lurk as opposed to posting (hence my pathetic DAW level) but I think the topics you start are always interesting so it's fun to jump into your threads. As far as the Corvette is concerned: the curse of the car continues. Why doesn't Ian realize that you can't have the car and the million! It's one or the other! I really don't know why Ian was such a wreck last night when he seemed so level-headed last week. If he is falling in love with Katie, though, that would go a long way toward explaining his erratic behavior. If that were the case then I'm sure his feelings for her are getting stronger with each passing day. I also lost respect for him last night insomuch as his obsession with "honesty" and "friendship" and "loyalty" are misplaced. Those are great qualities to have in the "real world" but when you're playing Survivor you need to understand that "all's fair in love and war." At this point he's digging his own grave. Ian keeps making Katie all these promises, too, and last week he really topped himself when he promised her brother that he would "look after her." KyleMan_200, what you said about Ian is spot on, and I couldn't agree more. Get a grip, Ian! You're not playing for the title of Mr. Congeniality; you're playing for the title of sole survivor! ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 03:06 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" Thanks for those nice words, Andromeda! I always enjoy all your insights.   Top

trudy 171 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-13-05, 06:23 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" I know this is wayyyyyyyyy out there, but what if Ian turns out to be as good an actor as Caryn was last week? I don't think he really is - struck me as "in love" but what if??????? Katie is kind of dolphin shaped.............   Top

tvgeek401 1615 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-13-05, 06:30 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" Katie is kind of dolphin shaped............. *chortle* Handcrafted by RollDdice ignore this space. ignore, ignore, ignore this spaceIcecat is da bomb!   Top

Incognito9 1622 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-13-05, 11:34 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" Nah, I'd say Katie's more shaped like a whale. Or a school bus. Oops, this ISN'T Bashers? Ahhh cr@p. Sorry.   Top

J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-14-05, 11:32 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Ian wants the title of Mr. Congeniality" ... Thank you for nearly making me piss myself laughing. Are you familiar with the old robot saying, 'DOES NOT COMPUTE'?   Top

Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 08:58 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" My take: 1. Ian is smart enough to know he couldn't leave Caryn and Tom to strategize on a beach while he's off showering with Katie. Tom is his only serious competition, and Tom has Caryn in his back pocket. 2. Ian is smart enough to know that taking Caryn on the reward would piss Katie off FAR more than taking Tom on the reward. If there is attraction between Katie and Ian, then that would be inflamed in all the wrong ways if he went on a reward with another female. Additionally, it would cause Katie to seriously question whether she's still F3 with Tom and Ian, or if Caryn has usurped her slot. 3. Ian is smart enough to know that Jen is irrelevant at this point. She'll write down anyone's name she's told to write, as long as it's not her own, so she doesn't need a reward to sweeten her, and nor is she a risk to leave behind on a beach. Additionally, if there is attraction between Ian and Katie, again it would be foolish to take pretty Jen away for an overnighter. The only right thing to do was take Tom. Clearly, Ian is hugely confident in his own ability to direct Katie's actions, and he is absolutely right -- she's done exactly what he told her to do on the Gregg vote and on the Caryn vote, even though until the very last minute she was apparently going to vote differently. Ian knows how Katie will eventually vote before even she knows. He knew 100% that he could safely leave her alone with the other two women and nothing would ultimately come of it because he would do and say all the right things to bring Katie back under his wing when he got back to camp. Whether Ian and Katie genuinely share an attraction beyond simple friendship, or whether Ian has cleverly identified a need in Katie that he could fulfil with this kind of "special" attention, is immaterial. The fact is, it's there, and Ian knows he can count on it. All he needed to do was tearfully prostrate himself and beg her forgiveness and make lifelong love promises to her, and she's right back in line. It was not a mistake, taking Tom on the reward. It was the best move Ian could make for himself.   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-13-05, 09:44 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Loquatrix, I have to say that this is a spin on Ian's actions last night that I hadn't thought of. I did wonder if Caryn should have broached Tom about voting Ian off by telling Tom that Ian was his only real competition in the challenges but I never considered the possibility that Ian was purposely keeping them apart or that he didn't want to anger Katie by choosing Caryn. If Ian was doing this much strategizing, then my hat's off to him but based on how bizarrely Ian was behaving yesterday, I really don't know how much credit for thinking clearly we should give him.   Top

ctheshow 9 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-14-05, 00:52 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" I lost respect for Ian as a player this week. Katie is playing Ian like he is a "soon to be dumped boyfriend". The way Ian placated to Katie is very sad. Ian has verbalized a promise to never write Katie's name, not under any circumstance. Katie is an opportunist. She will definitely write Ian's name if it helps her purpose as evidenced by her desire for an all woman's alliance. No problem, she is playing the game. Ian is playing like a fool! Hope Tom can win all the remaining immunity challenges.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-14-05, 01:35 AM (EST) 20. "Ian is Katie's ticket to the final two" I agree with everything you just said, ctheshow. I don't think I could have put it better myself. Great post, Loquatrix. After giving your take some thought I've decided that I agree with part of your view on Thursday's episode. There is definitely something to your idea that Ian's choice of company on his reward challenge was not as stupid as I thought it was initially. It was a prudent move on Ian's part not to leave Tom and Caryn alone. Obviously there was no point in taking Caryn or Jen, and I think that only reason he felt secure in his decision to leave Katie behind was because he thought they had a strong bond. He was a bit paranoid that Katie would turn on him, but he had enough confidence in their friendship (or alliance, if you like) to believe that she would stay loyal to him despite her chance to form a new alliance with the women. You've convinced me that taking Tom on the reward was the best move Ian could make at that point because it is likely that Tom would have turned on him and voted him out. After all, Tom wouldn't really have to be worried about getting voted out if it were just him and the three girls; it is so unlikely that any of them would win immunity that I'm sure he would have banked on the fact that he could win the remaining immunity challenges and coast into the final two. That being said, I still think it was not so much strategy that led Ian to choose Tom; rather, it was his strong sense of loyalty and honor. Ian has stated on several occasions that when he makes a promise it “means a lot to him”. Therefore, when he said that his decision to take Tom was based on a promise that had been cemented with a handshake, I believe him. He is a bad liar and if he were truly choosing Tom for a reason other than what he claimed it would have been evident in his voice and his body language. From your post it seems that you think Ian is manipulating Katie. There is undeniably subterfuge taking place, but I feel that Katie is the one doing the manipulating. To borrow some of your words, I think that Katie has cleverly identified a need in Ian that she can fulfill with “special” attention and all she needed to do was shed a few tears and give him a guilt trip to make him fall back in line. Ian’s tears were genuine; he was really, truly upset. I must say that I also disagree with your assessment that Ian’s relationship with Katie is immaterial. In fact, I feel quite the opposite: I believe that Ian’s feelings for Katie (platonic or not) are an integral part of the game insomuch as they are so strong that they have begun to interfere with his game. Perhaps it would be better to say that they have taken over to the point where they are now dictating his entire strategy. There is little evidence to support the theory of Ian being a master manipulator. He’s never indicated in a confessional that he’s using Katie as a stepping stone on his way to the million. More importantly, he is a bad liar. I honestly think he is one of the worst liars I’ve ever seen. When he tries to lie to someone his body language completely changes, he starts stuttering and stammering, and he usually deliberately looks away from the person and often at the ground. What’s even worse is that telling a lie seems to plague his conscience so severely that he often inadvertently blurts out the truth: Last week he said, in front of Gregg, “I think tribal council tonight will be interesting, the way the whole thing plays out.” This week he said, in front of Tom, “Caryn, my alliance consists of you, me, and Kat----, I mean Tom.” I understand if you disagree with this (and to be quite honest I also wish this were not the case) but perhaps the best evidence is straight from the horse’s mouth. There’s a clip on the Survivor Insider this week called “Friend or Foe” in which Ian talks at length about his fight with Katie and says toward the end that “Everybody wants a million bucks. I want it just as bad as anybody else does, but there are certain things that are more important than a million dollars as well and one of them is a good friend. That was the first priority today.” Well, there you have it: Ian has chosen friendship over money, and that's why he will lose. I like Ian very much. He has been my favorite from day one, and I really want to see him win. I badly want to agree with your assessment of Ian as a clever and shrewd player whose every move is well thought out and carefully chosen. This is just no the case. His feelings are dictating his strategy, and while would never use Katie, Katie most certainly would, and probably will, use him. She will walk all over him in order to get to the final two. At this point, sadly, I feel Ian has no possibility of winning. I think the best he could now is come in third. ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

Loquatrix 640 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 07:59 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Ian is Katie's ticket to the final two" I completely agree with you that Katie would walk all over Ian to get to the final two, if necessary - in fact, we've already seen her twice coming THIS CLOSE to casting a vote that would terminate her F2 alliance with Ian. First, she was ready to jump to Gregg's Gregg-Jenn-Katie F3, only coming back into Ian's fold under the threat of Purple Rock. Then, she was ready to jump to Caryn's Caryn-Jenn-Katie F3, only coming back into Ian's fold once Caryn blew her wad at Tribal Council. As Katie has said all along, she goes where the power appears to be, and moves quickly to correct her position once the power dissipates from the person she's standing behind. But I don't think Ian is in love with Katie, nor she with him. I believe they're fond of each other, and loyal to each other in one way or another, but each is somewhat manipulating the other. Ian is good at identifying when Katie needs to be fawned over to keep her sweet, and Katie is good at identifying when Ian needs to fear being abandoned by her. Like a lot of people who do have strong friendships, it is largely because they are able to identify each other's needs and desires and -- in normal circumstances -- fulfil those needs. And in Survivor circumstances, to exploit those needs within an inch of killing the friendship. I think their manipulation of each other is definitely a two-way street, but I happen to think Ian has the upper hand and you happen to think that's Katie's. (Side note: Is Katie a jinx? The leaders of the new alliances she dallies with get voted out immediately. OR... does that make her completely in control of the game, since on two key occasions her decision has changed the course of the game from the direction it appeared to be going? OR... does that make IAN completely in control of the game, since he is the one who is able to convince her to abandon her new-fangled alliances and return to the original plan, despite it being obvious to her and everyone else that she's playing for second place, at the very best, by doing so?) Regarding Ian's confessionals and the absence of admissions that he is manipulating/scheming, I believe this is an editing choice on the part of the production. Ian probably is talking about it, but we're just not being shown it. I believe he's actively being afforded the "super nice guy" edit even above and beyond the fact that he clearly is actually a nice guy. Tom is being shown as the schemer out of the two of them - the one who'll make threats when necessary, the one who'll find the right words to say to people to bring them into line, the one who has been actively shown as the primary manipulator throughout the game. For balance and contrast, we never hear a sneaky word out of Ian. When he has words to say to someone like Katie, we're shown a heartfelt Ian, a crying Ian... an Ian who believes the words he's saying, rather than an Ian who's just saying the words he needs to say to bring Katie in line. This is why, even in confessional, I doubt we'll ever hear Ian say "Oh yeah, Katie, whatever - she's my ticket to the Final 2" or "I'm only here for the million dollars and screw everyone else." In your quotation from the Survivor Insider, you unbolded the word "today" but I think that's actually the key quote of that entire sentence. TODAY, his friendship with Katie was more important than a million dollars. He is absolutely not saying that it is ALWAYS more important than a million dollars. Here, this is Ian being given "super nice guy" edit AND still sounding like someone who very much intends to be a million dollars richer soon. Finally (seems like I could yammer on with you forever about the Ian edit!) a little titbit I remembered from last season. Recall when Chris was away on reward with Ami and Eliza, while Scout and Twila were left back at camp? Ami's in the shower or something, and Eliza and Chris are sitting at a table in their robes. They get around to congratulating themselves on getting so far into the game, and Chris comments on getting to Final Four with their only competition being a 60-year-old woman and Scout. Eliza looks at him quizzically and says, "Getting to Final 3, you mean!" Chris quickly realizes he's ALMOST just told Eliza the truth -- that she's getting voted out in fourth place -- then corrects himself and says yes yes, of course, final three. That slip reminds me a lot of Ian's slip this week. These men are both honest brokers who have trouble telling brazen lies; they either forget what "fake truth" they're supposed to be holding to, or they start blithering obviously insincere drivel when put on the spot about it and making it totally obvious they're lying. And of course Chris' slip didn't cost him a million dollars. :grin: I think it all depends on whether EPMB this time wants us to have a winner who is a Powerful Challenge Competitor/Useful Actual Outdoorsman/Clever And Ambitious But Genuinely Nice Survivor like Ian, or a winner who is a Powerful Challenge Competitor/Useful Actual Outdoorsman/Tough But Warm Hearted Cunning Politician like Tom; either outcome would be splendid, in my book, with an Ian win being a bit splendider. Barring an unprecedented turnaround which would have to astonish and delight us all beyond our wildest imaginations for the season to be considered a success, Katie and Jenn are out of the race, which is fine with me. Ooooh, gosh, one more thing. :duck: If Tom wins this season, I think there will be a very powerful argument in favour of anointing him Best Survivor Ever To Play The Game. And for some reason, I'm just not feeling that in my gut. It would be weird to kind of grudgingly have to admit that Tom would now be that person. I just don't LIKE him enough. Dumb, huh. :grin:   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 10:08 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Ian is Katie's ticket to the final two" Loquatrix, I think Chris was saved and won, ultimately, because Ami and several others really resented Twila's lie that she swore on her son's life. Even Jeff seemed to be pointing out that Chris had lied many more times and played a lot of people in the process. I remember Jeff asking Julie if she felt that Chris tried to forge a sister/brother type relationship with her and if now, she felt she'd been had. She did. I think Ian is a genuinely sweet person with a good heart. I remember how he couldn't look Stephenie in the eye when she asked him what was happening. I think Chris just couldn't keep his facts straight.   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 03:19 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Ctheshow, Did Ian actually say that he would never write Katie's name under any circumstance because I remember a contestant from an earlier season (I don't remember who)who also said he/she'd never write a certain person's name either and then added that meant it would never be written when it was down to the final two either. So this could mean the same thing here- that when it's down to the final two, if it's Katie and someone else, Ian will vote for the other person. If this is the case, I wonder if Katie realizes this and if so, it'll be one more reason she'll use to keep playing Ian. Also, if Ian's one of the jurors and Katie is one of the final two, hearing Ian's statement and Katie's response during the final tribal council will be very interesting!   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-14-05, 01:11 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" RealityMom, I was just thinking about this exact same thing this morning! I came here to post about it but I see that you already have. To answer your question, though, here are two quotes from Ian that I think are relevant to this subject. The first was made in a confessional and the second was made to Katie: “I told Katie I wouldn’t write her name down and that means a lot to me.” "No matter what you learned I said wouldn’t vote against you, I have every intention to take you to the final two." When I was thinking about that first quote this morning I realized that if you took that quote literally it would mean that Ian wouldn't even write down Katie's name when it's down to the final two. However, the second quote helps put the first into context, and it seems that what Ian was really expressing was that he wouldn't write her name down as a vote against her. What is the most intriguing to me, though, is that Ian's quote about not writing down Katie's name was included in the final cut of the episode. It didn't end up on the editing room floor, and there must be a reason why. The editors are crafty and I can see them specifically including that quote in order to foreshadow that Katie will be in the final two and that Ian will not vote for her. Moreover, the way things are going it seems that Katie has a guaranteed spot in the final two and Ian will probably come in third (unless he can win final immunity). It's likely that we will see Ian on the jury questioning Katie during the final tribal council and that will be very interesting indeed! ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 09:41 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Andromeda, I forgot to thank you earlier today about the two quotes that give, perhaps, a clearer understanding of Ian's intentions. I also wanted to ask you if you really think that Ian would actually decline his place in the final two, if Tom chooses him, and give it to Katie. If that happens, I think Andrew LLoyd Webber can put it to music because it'll be the biggest sacrifice that I can think of (even greater than Colby and Tina) in Survivor history. Ian's worked so hard, I hope that he's not thinking with his heart, etc. instead of his brain.   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 03:24 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Does anyone remember if Ian and Tom said they'd take each other when it got to the final two. We've heard so many promises made about the final four and final three that I don't remember if they said that each would take the other or do they both want to bring Katie, since they think they have the best chance of winning against her. Knowing how Ian feels about loyalty and promises, if he did make a promise to Tom, then if he's the won who wins the last IM, and Tom is one of the final three, then Ian probably will bring Tom. But I think Tom is much more focused on winning it all and will take whoever he thinks is the weaker of the two.   Top

becca 17 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-14-05, 10:25 AM (EST) 23. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" From the clips we have seen, Tom/Ian have no final 2 deal. Ian and Tom have discussed only going to the final 3 and Tom has told Katie/Caryn that he doesn't want to face the final 2 with Ian. Ian and Tom have discussed together how both Caryn/Katie think they are in the final 2. Caryn said that until this episode, Ian was the golden boy. He hadn't lied to a single person in the entire game, and apparently was as nice and sweet as played on the t.v In contrast, as we know Tom was kind of bossy. She says that she told Tom that there is no way your beating Ian in a jury vote. Tom taking Ian to the final 2 would be Tom pulling a Colby. Ian also doesn't want to go to the final 2 with Tom, according to Tom. Because Tom's his biggest competition and his been under Tom's shadow. Ian as we've seen has a hard time making promises he won't keep. He wavered with Caryn. So he and Tom have probably been honest with each other in the beginning because I think they really do have a tight friendship. Yeah, Ian's primary concern was keeping his friends, but he's really put himself in a position where he at the final 4, he can do whats needed to be done without losing friendships. Ian and Tom have a "gentlemen's agreement" and neither will be angry with the other when one gets voted out at the final 3. As for Katie, being loyal to Katie is beneficial to Ian. He can easily beat Katie in an jury vote. Don't get me wrong I think this game is hard for Ian because he really is a nice guy, whose obviously not good at lying to people. However, I won't criticize the boy's conflict management skills because he did what was necessary to get Katie to keep him. (Caryn said she thought caryn was overacting, but not Ian.) Why those guys kept Ian around, when he was unbeatable in the jury, and was a huge immunity threat makes no sense to me. It should have been an unanimous vote.   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 11:10 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Ian, did you forget you're going for the cake, not settling for the crumbs?" Hey, Becca, Thanks for the reply. When you talk about the clips and Caryn discussing Ian being a golden boy until this episode, are you referring to the SurvivorLive interview from yesterday because I lost my connection during the show and so far, they only have part three on the computer?   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-14-05, 01:18 PM (EST) 27. "Caryn on Survivor Live?" Yes, Becca, thanks for that insight about Caryn's thoughts. If those comments did come from this week's episode of Survivor Live then I really appreciate you posting them here because Caryn get on my nerves and I just couldn't bring myself to listen to her talk for an hour. Is there anything else she said that's pertinent to Ian or Tom's character or strategy? On a side note I was really excited because last week when Gregg was on Survivor Live they actually took my call and I got to ask him a question! It was so cool. ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 01:30 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" Andromeda, I was on hold last week but they ran out of time. I actually got on yesterday and my phone had this long pause so I didn't even realize I was on the air, then I got to ask my question and the phone went dead! So I got to just hear the start of Caryn's answer and then, nothing, so I don't know if they came back to me or not. I've been trying to catch it on cbs.com but they've only got part 3 as of now. I'm kind of mortified to actually hear it because I keep visualizing them asking me something and then saying- oh, well, we lost her. I thought Gregg came off fantastically last week. He seems like a great guy. Caryn also came off a lot better than I would have thought. Jenna loved that Caryn "cleaned house" (Caryn's words) at tribal council.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-14-05, 01:56 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" Since the call to Survivor Live is long distance I decided before I called that if they told me I had to hold for a long time I'd just forget about it. Thankfully when I called I was told I would be the third caller so I only ended up having to wait for about 10 minutes! I think I know what happened with your call. It's kind of weird when you get on the switchboard, as I'm sure you know since you've gotten through before. When you call and the screener answers and then tells you that you can ask your question there is silence for a bit so it seems like something is wrong but then you get the audio feed for the show. Just before they connect to your line the audio feed cuts out and there's silence for a moment yet again. Then you hear them greeting you and you get to ask your question and then what happens is Dalton (who works the phone) says "thank you" and then hangs up on you so essentially what happens is you ask your question, you hear a moment of the audio where they are responding to your question, and then you hear nothing because you've been cut off. I hope they didn't "lose you," but if they did I wouldn't be embarrassed about it because it's live and that sort of thing happens sometimes. I hope you got through, though --- if you did let me know and I will be sure to watch that part of Survivor Live! It's exciting when you get through. Gregg was great on Survivor Live last week. It sounds like you watched it; I was the third call ("Lauren from Florida") and I asked him about why he trusted Katie when she told him she was sneaky. It was weird hearing my voice on the show, though, and it was kind of embarrassing because I like to think that I don't have a southern accent but I could hear a trace of it when I listened to my call! ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-14-05, 02:05 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" I'm Judy from Los Angeles and I asked Caryn if she'd gone to Tom to try to vote off Ian, so that Tom wouldn't have any real competitions in the challenges and I heard her say she did, then I lost the connection. That's why Becca's information was especially interesting to me because it sounds like it might have been in response to my question. I have a very strong New York accent, in spite of living in Atlanta for years, so I hate to hear myself, too, but it's so nice that a show is broadcast live all over the country, so we can actually ask questions. I'd love to call The Early Show but it's already taped by the time it's broadcast here in LA. By the way, I remember your question and I thought it was a very good one and that you sounded great, too. I was going to ask if Gregg had picked up on Ian's slip of the tongue about the "interesting tribal council". I hate to think what my phone bill will be this month!   Top

becca 17 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-14-05, 09:04 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" Caryn said that until this episode she thought ian was golden and that she went to Tom about it, and Tom went right back to Ian. i could be wrong though its totally possibly Tom/Ian have a final 2 pact but I think Ian's sincere about taking katie. She said though that she wanted to the jurors to know that Ian wasn't mr. sweet and innocent and he was lying to people. There were two early spoilers which say that during the end game, Ian becomes a bit of a polorizing figure and isn't as well liked as he was in the beginning of the season. However, they say its Ian and Katie in the final 2. I think this is totally possible given what happened in the last tribal council and whats happening perhaps after that.   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-15-05, 01:31 AM (EST) 38. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" Becca, Thanks so much for the answer. As you see from my other posts, I asked the question about Ian on SurvivorLive but never heard the answer. It's good that Caryn was so forthcoming. I'm looking forward to lots of discussion after the show.   Top

Andromeda 51 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-15-05, 00:55 AM (EST) 36. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" RealityMom, I know what you mean about your phone bill! I bought a calling card just for this purpose so I wouldn't have to deal with any surprises on my phone bill this month! At least the number to call the Early Show is an 800 number (if memory serves me) but I've tried calling them before and it's pretty much impossible to get through. That's really funny that you were going to ask Gregg if he had picked up on Ian's slip of the tongue because I almost asked him that myself. I had two questions in mind (that one and the one I ended up asking) and I just couldn't decide! I still hadn't made up my mind when they put me live on the show so I just went with whichever one I had the impulse to ask at that moment! We think a lot alike when it comes to Survivor, it seems. I took your advice to watch Survivor Live with Caryn since you said she didn't come off as bad as you thought. I'm glad I listened to you because I must admit that as irritating as I found her to be on the show she was extremely articulate and well-spoken on Survivor Live. She definitely had some very intelligent and interesting theories and insights on the game. I also got to hear your question which was cool because now I have a voice to go with your posts. I thought you sounded just fine; you do have a New York accent but it's nothing to worry about! I mean, if that's where you grew up it's only logical that you would have that region's accent, just as I have a trace of a Southern accent since I grew up in Florida. Although if I perceive a "trace" of a Southern accent in my own voice then I suppose that other non-Southerners must perceive a very strong accent... Oh, well. You did get to ask your question and Caryn did answer it. I think you thought you got disconnected prematurely but what happened was after you finished asking your question Dalton hung up on you so you were cut off from the live audio feed. The same thing happened to me and it was a bit confusing but that's just the way it works! They hang up on you so they can make more room for other callers. Your question was very good; I had also been wondering why Caryn never pressed Tom about voting off Ian so it was nice to hear her answer to your question. In case you still haven't been able to watch Survivor Live by the time you read this I will post Caryn's answer: Yeah, I did at some point mention to Tom and then Tom ran back and told Ian. I thought, you know, I was thinking Ian was the "golden boy"; I mean, Ian really, up until recently, hadn't lied. Um, and when he was "golden", you know, I did say something to Tom about nobody's going to beat Ian. I said, "No one is going to beat Ian," and then Tom ran back and told Ian and uh, you know, and then I'm starting to realize how tight their bond really is, so... You know, you have to be careful who you talk to and how much you talk to them and when you talk to them; it's a very delicate situation out there. ~*~Andromeda~*~   Top

RealityMom 560 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-15-05, 01:30 AM (EST) 37. "RE: Caryn on Survivor Live?" Andromeda, Thanks so much for getting the whole answer. For some reason, my computer is only opening up part 3 and I'm sure my question is on part 2. I thought Caryn really did come off well on the show. Until I watched the show, I didn't realize that she knew she was being voted off and that was why she "cleaned house" at the tribal council. Another caller asked the other question I had on my mind- are the jurors able to confer with each other, though I think the actual question asked was if the jurors are sequestered. You heard them all being evasive. But I think the fact that Caryn went off to the jury wanting to give them information before she left meant that she didn't know if she'd have another chance to talk with them. We still don't know what happens when they are together, if they are together. The week that Stephenie was on, was the first time I watched the show. I had 2 or 3 questions and did get through but 2 were already going to be asked and they weren't interested in the 3rd. Then, in the shower, of course, I thought of another question- did Coby's information help her and if so, how. What's funny is that another poster wrote after I mentioned something Stephenie said, asking that very question. So I had to tell him it wasn't discussed. Then when Gregg was on, he basically answered it when he said that when Stephenie went around telling everyone what Coby told her, he(Gregg) decided she was too much of a wild card and that was a major reason he wanted her voted off. I'm glad I finally started watching the show because I do feel like a lot of the questions we have get answered. Doesn't it seem like all the contestants this time are going around telling what's happening more than usual. I wonder if this is because they've been together as a team so long that the bond makes it harder to keep things secret. Both my kids have southern accents, having lived most of their lives in Atlanta. My daughter says "y'all" so it's an interesting house- I'm from the Bronx, my husband's from Brooklyn and my kids speak "southern". Have a great night. I can't wait for tomorrow and thanks again.   Top

Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Select another forum Lobby The Amazing Race Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Amazing Race Fanatics Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected) American Idol Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--American Idol Individual Contestant and Judge Discussion Forum (Protected) Big Brother Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Big Brother Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Bashers Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Live Feed Updates And Spoilers (Protected) Survivor Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Games Forum (Protected) Other Reality TV Shows (Conference)   |--The Bachelor / The Bachelorette Forum (Protected)   |--Dancing with the Stars Forum (Protected)   |--Other Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected) Off Topic (Conference)   |--The Help Forum (Protected)   |--Off-Topic Forum (Protected)