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Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 06-29-08, 08:54 PM (EST) "Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-29-08 AT 08:58 PM (EST) http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_9725077 _____________________________________________________________________________ I'd never heard of this until I read the article in my newspaper. I find it disturbing because I can see it being easily abused. It also smacks of something akin to secret police. Am I being too paranoid? I'm curious about what others think. It's a Tribe!   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Are You a TLO? KeithFan 06-29-08 1    RE: Are You a TLO? Tahj 06-29-08 5        RE: Are You a TLO? frisky 06-29-08 6        RE: Are You a TLO? KeithFan 06-29-08 10            RE: Are You a TLO? frisky 06-30-08 11                RE: Are You a TLO? KeithFan 06-30-08 13                    RE: Are You a TLO? frisky 06-30-08 16            RE: Are You a TLO? cahaya 06-30-08 12            RE: Are You a TLO? mysticwolf 06-30-08 14  RE: Are You a TLO? mysticwolf 06-29-08 2  RE: Are You a TLO? agman 06-29-08 3  RE: Are You a TLO? frisky 06-29-08 4    RE: Are You a TLO? agman 06-29-08 7  RE: Are You a TLO? cahaya 06-29-08 8    RE: Are You a TLO? Tahj 06-29-08 9        Just a few marketing issues! IceCat 06-30-08 15  RE: Are You a TLO? Snidget 06-30-08 17  Tahj, you are... singer 06-30-08 18  RE: Are You a TLO? kingfish 06-30-08 19  RE: Are You a TLO? suzzee 06-30-08 20  RE: Are You a TLO? maroonclowns mom 06-30-08 21    RE: Are You a TLO? Tahj 06-30-08 22        RE: Are You a TLO? CantStandToLook 06-30-08 23            RE: Are You a TLO? Tahj 06-30-08 24                RE: Are You a TLO? agman 06-30-08 25                    RE: Are You a TLO? maroonclowns mom 06-30-08 26                        RE: Are You a TLO? agman 06-30-08 27                            RE: Are You a TLO? maroonclowns mom 06-30-08 28                                RE: Are You a TLO? agman 06-30-08 29

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KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 09:35 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Are You a TLO?" I can see how it can make one paranoid. OTOH, there really needs to be a system in place to report these suspicious activities. Obviously, we're never going to see 4 armored divisions massing at the border. The only way possible to stop potential threats is to keep our eyes open. Would you feel more comfortable with a govt program to get every neighbor to spy on each other? I think this is the least invasive way to go an probably a lot more effective, given the knowledge and training of those doing the reporting.It's not like these are Minutemen shooting anything coming across the border, these are trained men and women, who, in the course of there work see something that could be construed as a part of a terrorist plot and are trained to report it to someone who will look into it. If there wasn't such a system in place I'd be more worried. I would much rather see us being proactive rather than reactive. Someone may have a legitimate reason for buying 150 disposable cell phones, but I'd certainly feel more comfortable if someone did a quiet once-over to check them out if they do.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 06-29-08, 10:46 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Would you feel more comfortable with a govt program to get every neighbor to spy on each other? Well, see, I'm worried this is where this may be headed. These trained men and women live in neighborhoods and have neighbors. I don't doubt that they would hesitate to report something while not on duty. I don't think I'm going to be looking over my shoulder all the time, but this just makes me very uncomfortable. It's a Tribe!   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 10:57 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-29-08 AT 10:58 PM (EST) >These trained men and women live in neighborhoods and have neighbors. Yep. Among these men and women who have been through three days of training will be idjits who think they've been handed the key to the friggin police station. You can't put this kind of power (or perceived power) in the wrong hands. Just the perception of power alone can totally fvck someone up. It happens all the time in the workforce -- take a normal office worker and promote him/her to manager, and suddenly they grow fangs and furrowed brows and fur where there was no fur before. My neighbour is an "auxilliary" cop. He's always citing bylaws and calling "the shop" if someone in the neighbourhood builds a fence one or two inches over code. He's too short to be a cop, so that need for "power" has to be manifested somewhere, you know. Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.   Top

KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 11:45 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Then, I ask in all seriousness, where do you want suspicious activity reports to come from? If we aren't going to get caught with our pants down (again), it's going to come from someone like this seeing something, reporting it up the chain of command, and the connections made from there. Forget your initial knee jerk, show me a workable solution that is less invasive of privacy.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 00:04 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Are You a TLO?" "someone like this" Like what? You've stressed that these are trained individuals, and I've stressed that they have been through only three days of training. They cannot possibly have any more skills to assess a situation than any member of the general public. If you, Keithfan, see suspicious activity, do you report it? There is something about this that goes beyond the vigilence that has become the norm since the attacks on America. It's hyper-vigilence, if that's a word. Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.   Top

KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 00:47 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Are You a TLO?" If you, Keithfan, see suspicious activity, do you report it? Yes, I have. Just last week someone came in and threatened to dismember everyone, then walked off and bought a knife. I called the police and they tracked him down. But to the matter at hand. All I have seen so far here is hand wringing. If someone presents a reasonable, rational, effective, and most importantly proactive solution that is more agreeable I'm perfectly willing to listen to them. The same people who complain about Big Brother are the same who are going to complain that nobody saw the obvious warning signs.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 02:02 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Are You a TLO?" >If you, Keithfan, see suspicious activity, >do you report it? > >Yes, I have. Just last >week someone came in and >threatened to dismember everyone, then >walked off and bought a >knife. I called the >police and they tracked him >down. > >But to the matter at hand. Oh, this is totally relevant to the matter at hand. What makes these designated TLO's more qualified than the vigilant citizen to observe, assess and report suspicious behaviour such as you have done? What exactly are they looking for and reporting that the guy on the street will not? If I see someone I've never seen before going to my neighbours house, knocking, and going to sit in their car, and then knocking again, and then going back of the house, I'm calling the cops. Why do you need to appoint special people to do what the everyday guy should be doing? I can see what I hope are good intentions here, but the concern I have is with the wannabes. There are a lot of people out there who do not know how to deal with "power." You can give someone a power but if they don't have the skills to use it properly, it will be misused. You can't learn in three days how someone is going to react to an increased sense of authority. Cops have continuous training in racial profiling and stereotyping. Three days is not enough to protect people from being targeted just because of race or class. Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.   Top

cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 00:06 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Are You a TLO?" It seems to me there is already a system in place, and I think this adds a somewhat obfuscatory layer to the process involving people whose primary mission is not law enforcement. What if I did see suspicious activity? Suppose I see my neighbor hauling stuff into his garage that seems out of place, and he/she gets visits from people rarely seen in this area? In general, I'd mind my own business, but if it seems like it warrants further investigation by law enforcement, I'd call the police here and explain what I saw that was cause for serious concern and then let them take it from there. I would assume that they might do professional law enforcement surveillance of their own to check what is going on. What I don't see is people not within law enforcement doing the work of professionals based on a watered-down 3 day seminar-style course (yes, I looked at the course syllabus on the TLO site). I can't imagine an electric utility meter reader doing the work of a police detective or investigator. Surfkitten Summer sigshop 2008   Top

mysticwolf 10692 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 01:38 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-30-08 AT 01:52 AM (EST) Not "caught with our pants down again"? Are you serious? Give me a break. Freaking fiction writers had suggested in their stories that someone might eventually pull a 9/11. No one paid any attention, and afterward everybody of note said "Oh. We couldn't have seen this coming." Our answer? We take away liquids in carry-on bags; We take away nail nippers, pen knives, etc.; We make everyone boarding a plane take off their shoes. Etc. None of which means carp because while we inspect passengers and crew, we rarely - and only sporadically - inspect any of the contractors that supply food to planes, or the crews that load baggage, or do the cleaning, etc. Don't get me started on inspection of container ships, international trucking, etc. But now, in the name of national security, we give 3-day seminars to folks so they can report on whatever they see that they deem "suspicious". Which includes things like taking photos of a dam that you're visiting while on vacation? Yep. The world is a terrible, frightening, place. Anyone and everyone you may see might be plotting the imminent demise of you and/or all of your related citizenry. The most seemingly innocent behavior might be the precursor of something bad. Be afraid. I'm sorry. That's not how I want to live. And, that's not the world I want the young people I deal with daily to inherit. Asking people to be vigilant and report what truly seems out of the ordinary is one thing. Give some of them a seminar and make them some kind of "super observer" is another. The former will turn up truly suspicious observations. The latter will turn up people that are looking for suspicion in corners in the hope that they will get the credit if - big, maybe - something turns up. That "big, maybe" can ruin a whole lot of innocent lives in the process. My question? Homeland Security money was handed out to a number of areas. New York, if I recall correctly, got less money than Montana. (Montana, I believe, got the largest handout of HS money.) Florida got less than Colorado. There were other major handouts in areas that wouldn't be your first choice if you were really looking at it logically. Not much of it made much sense, but it's money. It has to be spent or it eventually gets taken away. Guess this is how they decided to spend it. I am not at all feeling more secure from it. Too bad I didn't do a security start-up and try to get in on the "need-to-spend-it" money. I handled security. I could do a seminar like that. Too bad it's so "brush the surface" training that it's essentially worthless - except to the person that decides they want to use it to make a name for themselves. Worthless, or not, I'd be rich now. And, that's the paranoia. Because, these people have badges. That's what makes it most dangerous, imo. Arguing with a badge, or anything placed on your "permanent record" by someone with a badge, doesn't lead to anything good. And, it's one He11 of a big step backwards into something reminiscent of McCarthyism. And, McCarthy times, in worldwide historic terms, are nowhere near what this is really reminiscent of. A smokeysmom "In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught." - Baba Dioum   Top

mysticwolf 10692 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 10:23 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Paranoid? I think it's fair to say that when even a 16-yr. veteran officer with the FBI thinks this is a bad idea you can be forgiven if you feel paranoid. Me? You can add scared shiteless to the paranoia. This is not what I expect from my country. A smokeysmom "In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught." - Baba Dioum   Top

agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 10:31 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Are You a TLO?" *puts on sunglasses. Pulls up collar. glances quickly in both directions. Looks around again, adjusts fake beard. Peaks out window in kitchen. Quickly opens door grabs newspaper and jumps back into house. Closes blinds* Oh no, I'm not the least bit paranoid about this <<dripping sarcasm>> Taj, I feel the same as you and Mystic on this one!   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 10:43 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Three days of training. Three days. You can bet there is no evaluation within that three day period. There wouldn't be time. In that short timeframe, this would be one-way information delivery, here's what we're looking for, go get'em, boys. We already know that it's possible for cops to act based upon bias and stereotypes, even with YEARS of training. But three days? Friggin UTILITY workers?? I have nothing against utility workers, but these folks don't specialize in people. And they're suddenly going to have insight into human behaviour in three days??? I would be interested to hear what AyaK has to say about this. One wrong "arrest" (and there will be at least one) and what will happen in court? Could a charge of stealing a car suddenly be beefed up to a federal charge of terrorism? Could the individual, if found not-guilty, turn around and sue the utility worker for wrongly fingering him? Couldn't a case fall apart if one of these three-day trainees was inarticulate and couldn't deliver on the stand, for lack of real investigative training? This seems really effed up. Perpetual *headbutt* compliments of Rolly.   Top

agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 11:12 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Are You a TLO?" This whole thing scares the livin crap out of me! I can just imagine the law-enforcement wannabes who will sign up for this!   Top

cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-29-08, 11:13 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Just don't get too curious and go looking at www.tlo.org. Security, Intrusion, and Detection For site security purposes, and to ensure that this service remains available to all users, all network traffic is monitored in order to identify unauthorized attempts to upload or change information, or otherwise cause damage or conduct criminal activity. Anyone using this system expressly consents to such monitoring and is advised that if such monitoring reveals evidence of possible abuse or criminal activity, system personnel may provide the results of such monitoring to appropriate officials. Unauthorized attempts to upload or change information, or otherwise cause damage to this service, are strictly prohibited and may be punishable under applicable federal law.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 06-29-08, 11:44 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Jeez! This stuff is seriously beginning to freak me out. Maybe they should change the name to Paranoia, Inc. It's a Tribe!   Top

IceCat 17415 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 01:55 AM (EST) 15. "Just a few marketing issues!" The re-branding focus group has decided that Terrorism Liason Officer (TLO) was: a) too military sounding with a -3.7 on the Ear Friendliness Quotient (EFQ); b) not specific enough as 33% of customer survey respondents thought the role of the TLO was to 'liase with and assist terrorist individuals and groups in the local area'. Some working titles that the re-branding focus group are currently working on are: a) Bestest Friends of the State; b) Protection Super Friends; c) Sons and Daughters of Liberty. Once the branding issue has been rectified there should be no furhter problems with the service.   Top

Snidget 44369 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 05:59 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-30-08 AT 06:02 AM (EST) ETA: Read that wrong. However I do agree that there are lots of people who don't need to have any more power given to them until they are trained and vetted so they can use it wisely. On the other hand, I think everyone should be given more information about what is suspicious behavior that should be reported to authorities. I don't have a problem with general training for anyone that is likely to be in places where they may spot something.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 06-30-08, 06:28 AM (EST) 18. "Tahj, you are..." not being too paranoid. Not in the least.   Top

kingfish 20752 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 08:10 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Let's just call it what it is, "The Barney Fyffe Patrol". Out to Nip it in the Bud. Or, unfortunately, maybe more aptly, the modern day civilian component of the East German Stasi.   Top

suzzee 5961 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 08:24 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-30-08 AT 08:25 AM (EST) This phrase ""Suspicious activity" is broadly defined in TLO training as behavior that could lead to terrorism: taking photos of no apparent aesthetic value"on one paranoid hand it is suspicious, on the other hand photos I have taken (because I stink at composition)have no aesthetic value to anyone but myself. Any dispute among neighbors, acquaintances could lead to an abuse of something like this. Your neighbor's kids tear up your lawn and in a fit of pique you report a "suspicious activity". Where and with whom lies the burden of proof of these accusations? I got the same Orwell feeling when the Homeland Security was announced. The name evoked really unsettling feelings that I still haven't completely shaken. Big Brother (no not that one) is watching. Surfkitten Summer Sigshop 2008   Top

maroonclowns mom 1102 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 06-30-08, 09:28 AM (EST) 21. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Like the "fly boys" up in the sky. You can`t see them but they are up there patrolling the skies all day and all night and aren`t we glad the are.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 06-30-08, 10:26 AM (EST) 22. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Say what? What exactly are you talking about MM? I guess I'm unaware of this as well. It's a Tribe!   Top

CantStandToLook 6254 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 11:01 AM (EST) 23. "RE: Are You a TLO?" Could it be this???? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1981129/posts   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 06-30-08, 11:08 AM (EST) 24. "RE: Are You a TLO?" *snort* At this point I'm willing to believe just about anything. I am curious about the flyovers, though. It's a Tribe!   Top

agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 11:13 AM (EST) 25. "RE: Are You a TLO?" I'm not sure how often it happens, but I have heard that the skies are patroled frequently. Especially since 9/11. I would assume it happens more around what are thought to be potential targets for terrorists.   Top

maroonclowns mom 1102 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 06-30-08, 11:42 AM (EST) 26. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-30-08 AT 11:45 AM (EST) It`s not since 9/11. I was in the airforce back in the 50`s where I learned about the patrols. At least here in Canada so I`m sure US does it too. (edit for bad spelling)   Top

agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 11:48 AM (EST) 27. "RE: Are You a TLO?" LAST EDITED ON 06-30-08 AT 11:54 AM (EST) I'm sorry, I said especially since 9/11 .(sorry I wasn't clearer about that. I need to clarify my writing )FIL was in the Air Force in 60's and said it happened sometimes. I'm sure there is a lot of spying going on that many of us are unaware of!   Top

maroonclowns mom 1102 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 06-30-08, 11:53 AM (EST) 28. "RE: Are You a TLO?" in cheek, agman   Top

agman 11166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 06-30-08, 11:55 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Are You a TLO?" back at ya............ Eggman, SharTribe sig shop 2008   Top

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