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The Rusty Survivor 14 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-22-02, 07:44 AM (EST) "Who takes into account the 17th player?" I'm just wondering if any of those who have played Survivor have tried to take into account the 17th player, that is Jeff Prost? You see, I've noticed that while some challenges in the game are set in advance, others are done on the fly, that is, as a reaction to the current game situation and how the players are playing. I believe Jeff is sometimes deliberately putting a fly into the ointment to stir things up depending on the situation. You cannot tell me that challenge which exposed the rat-pack of 4s pecking order was a coincidence. Jeff set a trap for them which they could've avoided if they'd seen it but they walked right into it, thus turning the whole game around. So, Jeff Prost (or maybe Mark Burnett) is the 17th player. He peruses the tapes every day to see what's going on and then reacts accordingly, trying to skewer everyone's plans. See? He's playing too. So, for future strategy, Survivor 5 etc, perhaps players need to take into account this 17th player. For example, if you desperately wanted to win an upcoming immunity, and you had been playing deviously, and you had the feeling that Jeff was going to try and shake up your plans, you might speak into the camera about how concerned you were about the upcoming immunity, and make out (for instance) that you hope it isn't a mind challenge when in fact that is what you are stongest at. Next immunity is (surprise surprise) a mind challenge. You've beaten Jeff at his own game.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Who takes into account the 17th... SurvivinDawg 05-22-02 1    RE: Who takes into account the 17th... PagongRatEater 05-22-02 2        RE: Who takes into account the 17th... managerr 05-22-02 3            RE: Who takes into account the 17th... SurvivinDawg 05-22-02 4                RE: Who takes into account the 17th... DVK 05-22-02 5                RE: Who takes into account the 17th... ZealousElijah 05-22-02 6                    RE: Who takes into account the 17th... SurvivinDawg 05-22-02 7    RE: Who takes into account the 17th... Kokoro 05-28-02 12  RE: Who takes into account the 17th... Survivorerist 05-22-02 8    RE: Who takes into account the 17th... sleeeve 05-22-02 9        RE: Who takes into account the 17th... Survivorerist 05-23-02 10            Legal fairness vs. viewer ratings..... sleeeve 05-24-02 11

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-02, 09:43 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" The only problem I have with what you say: You're assuming that Jiffy controls the game. It's actually Evil Peckr Mark Burnett that controls the game... Jiffy is just the host and does what EPMB tells him to do. But yes, absolutely, MB does these things and (who knows?) perhaps players do try to manipulate the manipulator. It happened fer sure in S-1 (when the players demanded more food or they'd quit). We just may not know of other examples. "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-02, 11:40 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" Once again you have beaten me to it, Dawg. I agree wholeheartedly. I think that everything that Jeff does, including the questions he asks at TC and scripted by EPMB to push the game in the directions that he would like to see it go. Don't give Jeff too much credit. Even though he is certainly the best host on reality TV, he is not responsible for the twists and turns that are put into the game.   Top

managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-22-02, 11:46 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" You definitely want to take into consideration what you say into the camera. Who knows MB will decide to screw you. He didn't like the smug way the Mall Rats were acting in S3 and set up the twist just to screw their alliance. Challenges are brought in at opportune moments to decide the most drama, questions at Tribal Councils are definitely designed to reveal alliances if they are in secret. I.e. if you are going to make a key strategy move, it's best to keep everyone in the dark until the last second. Jeff being the best host on reality TV isn't saying much.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-02, 11:59 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" He didn't like the smug way the Mall Rats were acting in S3 and set up the twist just to screw their alliance. I personally think he did it not so much because of his own dislike of the Mall Rats, but because audience poll numbers showed a hatred of the Mall Rats that was causing a loss of Viewership. But you do make an excellent point... note that Jiffy's TC questions are particularly probing... you KNOW they went over the film and picked out the juicy tidbits, then slam a contestant with that stuff in front of his/her peers. "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

DVK 33 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 05-22-02, 01:22 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" A couple more comments. Not allowing any smuggling from Neleh and Paschal from the boat when everyone on shore was expecting something like what Pappy and Sean brought back was a setup and stirup. Also, I think it was Robert who was asked, how long is tribal counsel really? and he said it was somewhere between 45 min and 3 hours long and we see about 5 min of that. They could probably edit it to look like anyone is a good guy or any one is a bad guy. DVK ___________________________________________ And your whiney butt opinion would be?   Top

ZealousElijah 7 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-22-02, 01:27 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" MB wouldn't know if the mallrats were doing anything. The game was filmed and edited long before the show was aired. But, I'm sure it's obvious that the behavior of the mallrats would definitly effect ratings. On Good Morning America when Jiffy and MB were talking about S5, didn't MB refer to Jeff Probst as a Producer? I'm not sure there, but I'm nearly positive that he refered to Jiffy sitting at a table discussing changes for S5. I'm sure Jeff gets involved in the game and is just as evil as MB. Oh, and MB always refers to location as the 17th player. So he and Jiffy must be 18 and 19. ;)   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-02, 01:58 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" You're right about the filming vs. airing, ZE. Jiffy once said in an interview that he reviews film for questioning the players at TC. So Jiffy does get involved... however, anyone who thinks Jiffy isn't on MB's very short leash probably thinks MB would never stoop to manipulate the game... "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-28-02, 10:56 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" <<It happened fer sure in S-1 (when the players demanded more food or they'd quit).>> And how the alliance blatantly lied when the cameras were in their faces.... And really I can't believe they didn't do the same thing in S2 - "food for shelter? Nevermind then, we'll just starve and take a vow of silence" ----------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again.   Top

Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-22-02, 07:34 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" I have a question though, exactly how much is Jeff Probst, or Mark Burnett even, by law allowed to manipulate the game? It makes sense that they sure can manipulate the questions at TC as much as they want, but there are some other things I'm curious about. Are they allowed to just stick in the various challenges anywhere they want? Can they just throw in a twist anytime they want? I remember reading something a long time ago about how manipulating game shows can be against the law, so how much power do Jeff Probst and Mark Burnett really have? ======================= Survivorerist - Oh where oh where did my sig pic go? (Courtesy of Strider ) "I mean to see that we had just turned around like that at the last second and beat 'em at their own game...I think it's just hilarious! Like, I just laughed my head off! Ah ha ha ha..." -Neleh Dennis   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-22-02, 09:43 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" S1 and S2 were filmed under the guise of being a "game show"... as such, MB and company were required to follow the fair standards and practices of game show rules, per the FCC. S3 and S4 were filmed as "reality TV shows", and the contestants signed away any rights that they had, including statements that basically said that this was not a gmae show, and that the producers could select any winners/losers in any way that they wanted. (In other words, according to the contestant contracts, MB could walk into camp, declare one person the winner, and demand that the others stayed on the island for the full 39 days to compete for second prize while the winner celebrated in a hotel room somewhere.) As such, we have seen more blatant manipulation (the swaps, etc) since the contracts were modified, and we have Stacy Stillman to thank for it. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

Survivorerist 4103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-23-02, 05:21 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Who takes into account the 17th player?" Thanks for the info, eee All I can say is this blows big time! Well, I hope they will still maintain some degree of fairness in the series to come ======================= Survivorerist - Oh where oh where did my sig pic go? (Courtesy of Strider ) "I mean to see that we had just turned around like that at the last second and beat 'em at their own game...I think it's just hilarious! Like, I just laughed my head off! Ah ha ha ha..." -Neleh Dennis   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-24-02, 00:01 AM (EST) 11. "Legal fairness vs. viewer ratings..." The change in the contracts prevents the contestants from complaining about unfairness in the way that the game is played... however, MB must still maintain some air of fairness in the way that the game is played, or he will lose his viewer base... so I don't think you have anything to worry about. You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

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