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Solitaire 103 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-20-02, 02:37 PM (EST) "Hindsight is 20/20... " ...so with the value of hindsight, it might be worth our while to take a look at some of the foreshadowing in S4: --some time ago, someone correctly pointed out that the comments about "Pappy and three women" during Episode 6 could be a prelude to a Final 4 composed of Paschal and three women. --during the slingshot IC in Ep 11, Kathy made the comment "the chicks are in the finals" when she, Vee, and Neleh were the last three left in the IC. What was particularly interesting was that not only were these the final three, but they actually finished in that order. MB couldn't have controlled the way they finished, but I'm sure he enjoyed the foreshadowing. Any others?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Hindsight is 20/20... MatineeIdol 05-20-02 1  RE: Hindsight is 20/20... RDIheath 05-20-02 2  RE: Hindsight is 20/20... SurvivinDawg 05-20-02 3    RE: Hindsight is 20/20... jkokoj 05-20-02 4  RE: Hindsight is 20/20... MC_Hampster 05-20-02 5    RE: Hindsight is 20/20... ivoryElephant 05-20-02 6        RE: Hindsight is 20/20... Dreamkumo 05-20-02 7            RE: Hindsight is 20/20... Mitrelleum 05-21-02 8  Where is the "hand me the check" sp... PagongRatEater 05-21-02 9  RE: Hindsight is 20/20... cowboyroo 05-21-02 10    RE: Hindsight is 20/20... SurvivinDawg 05-23-02 12        RE: Hindsight is 20/20... JohnMc 05-23-02 13  SNews IslandFever 05-23-02 11    RE: SNews snoocharoo 05-23-02 14  RE: Hindsight is 20/20... Survivor Freak 1987 05-30-02 15

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MatineeIdol 104 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-20-02, 02:51 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " 1. Sean's comment about a black person not being able to win survivor 2. Sean's "always bet on black" statement   Top

RDIheath 59 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-20-02, 03:09 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " Ok here was the KEY to this years winner. NELEH is HELEN backwards. There are shots of the flags backwards throughout the entire season, there are flipped caps in nearly every episode, there is blatant and obvious :reverse/opposite" references and couple that along with Seans EP1 or EP2 comment that an african american could never win Survivor and you have your winner. MB said during Survivor 1 that there was a hint in the first episode as to the winner of the show and has reiterated that statement in some form or another in each of the subsequent series this one was no different, he just chose to point the finger away from the winner. Apply the "backward/opposite" editing throughout the series and you ahve the winner as being either V or Sean Half the world IS Half the world WAS Half the world THINKS while the other half DOES   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-20-02, 03:47 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " LAST EDITED ON 06-01-02 AT 12:07 PM (EST) While I think the things you brought up are coincidence, Solitaire, I do have some things to look at that might help in the future: I would like to commend my vote message to your attention for some ideas what to look for. 1) MB edited Neleh in the final few episodes in a very negative fashion. I believe he did that because he knew who the Final Two were (and at that point I believe he knew who the winner was). Knowing that Pappy and Kathy were popular, and would be eliminated by a rock (Pappy) and voted out by a traitorous deal (Kathy), MB needed a way to make Vee look good in the eyes of the Viewership. To do this, MB began editing Neleh very negatively. The exit interviews of several people were extremely negative towards Neleh, while not mentioning Pappy at all. This was to condition the Viewership to be glad of, and even to root for, a Vee victory. It also served to misdirect us somewhat, a bonus for MB. So we should be on the lookout for a shift of editing in later episodes, and if one person is suddenly being edited very strongly, but there's no real reason to think he/she will be voted out, then think down the road. 2) The Outfrontgirl Theory worked extremely well in the early episodes (pre-merge) and should always be a top consideration for the serious spoiler. 3) "Bet On Black", as I mentioned in my vote message, was in my opinion thrown in by MB in the manner of "Gervase X" or Richard Hatch's "just write me the check"... MB knew what it REALLY meant, but we never would until it was too late. These things are hard to forsee, though, because MB USUALLY uses these as misdirection (Silas saying to just write him the check, for example). 4) Although some dispute it, all the backward shots of Neleh (and others) might have been a hint that she makes the Final Two (some also saw this as a clue Neleh won). 5) I haven't done it yet, but I'm going to look into just how misdirectional the SeeBS "misdirection" was. It seemed to me that it wasn't as blatantly misdirectional as S-III. Feel free to look into this, also. 5a) in conjunction with the above, the Exit Interviews, the trends of said SeeBS offerings, etc., can be analyzed for clues. Rosie's "slip" that she thought Kathy won, after letting us know she's seen the final episode, was the classic misdirection that convinced me that Kathy did NOT make the Final Two. WE also got mucho clues from Gina's interviews, Da Robfadder's interviews, Patricia's "I hope Hunter wins!" shenanigan, etc. 6) I believed that a lot of my success (14-2-0) was due to trying to look at MB's editing and what SeeBS was presenting (or mispresenting, as the case may be), rather than what was being shown to us on TV. The OFG theory is a good example of the application of this. Many people, I noticed, voted early, not waiting for Thursday morning Early Show vidcaps, or last minute interview clues. Patience, my friends. 7) It doesn't hurt to be a lemming sometimes, either, and accepting what others have concluded. This saved me when voting Gabe (I almost voted Rob) and the General (I was thinking about Sean). It can also hurt (voting Da General instead of Zzzoe). Hope this helps. "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-02, 04:17 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " Right on Dawg! I kept thinking the whole season "mis-direction" all the while it was really in our face editing. MB has conditioned us spoilers to think about all the mis-direction. It worked in my case. Every time I though about a comment such as Sean's "bet on black" I thought "no MB would not be that obvious"! I wonder if MB will be so in our face next season. Or will JkokoJ be looking at all the "mis-direction" again!!!LOL See ya next season!   Top

MC_Hampster 105 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-20-02, 05:58 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " - There was a ton of editing the first half of the show focusing on the Alpha male. As we know, final four were three women and one "weak" male. Final three - all women. -MC   Top

ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 05-20-02, 06:07 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " During the 12th episode the camera zoomed in on Vecepias back and then panned over to the knife she was holding. The shot was out of context and was put in their for obvious reasons but I didn't know why. I thought, "does she stab someone in the back or what"? Well, she did. She alligned with Kathy, then Stabbed her in the back and alligned with Neleh. or something like that. Hail Kathy! the Sole survivor!   Top

Dreamkumo 14 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-20-02, 06:38 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " The whole immunity sling shot challenge where Kathy was dancing like an egyptian and saying "Chicks in the finals" thing has been mentioned because they did make it to the finals. I dont have a tape of that episode, but could someone check theirs for me. If my memory is right, In the challenge, I think Robert got out first, then Sean, then Pappy, then Kathy, then Neleh, and Vee won. If it happened, then the coconut chopping challenge wasnt the real eye-opener, that showed it all. Heres to wishful thinking that my memory is still good.   Top

Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-21-02, 02:35 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " I also think that if Vee had not won, not only would we not have seen Sean's "bet on black" comment, but I guarantee there would have been less Veejus and more of Neleh's religion. I think if Vee had lost after running on the strength of Jesus, it would have been a blow to any Christian audience MB might have. Bt if Neleh won, I guarantee it would have been the opposite. I'm sure he would have made Vee look bad, and shown more Neleh praying and so on. Keep this in mind when berating Vee about her JC speech.   Top

PagongRatEater 12996 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-21-02, 04:12 PM (EST) 9. "Where is the "hand me the check" spoiler" In the past few seasons there has been a hint either in early episodes or through-out the show pointing us to the winner. As has already been pointed out, they seem to only be visible in hindsight, but there did not seem to be anything early on that I saw that pointed to a Vee victory. In S1 you had Richard's cocky statement that ended up being prophecy. I dont recall anything from Africa, but perhaps someone can help me on that. And then the infamous Star of David from last year. This year I stuck to my guns on Neleh specifically because of all the backward shots, but as the Dawg pointed out - this season was all about mis-direction and it retrospect it seems that these shots fell into that catagory too. Misdirection was certainly the best spoiler of S4, but it is a VERY dicey way to try to figure out who the ultimate survivor is. The editing of Vee was not at all helpful in figuring out that she was the winner, so what was? What was the alleged giveaway for Vee? I contend that there WAS NONE and that we may want to reconsider any spoilers that may seem to point to the winner as misdirection. There is too much guesswork involved in trying to find that giveaway comment and if it turns out to all be misdirection then you are just building speculation on top of speculation. As Shakes said - spoiling is a week by week thing. I think additionally it could be considered a season by season thing. This year was the Year of the Hollow Theory. Previously we have had the Year of OFG. I think that to look for consistency could be a mistake and that we will have to try to build a better mousetrap every year to catch out bootee. The real lesson to me is - everything changes. MB likes it that way and CHANGE is the only constant.   Top

cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-21-02, 07:47 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " In Episode 1...JP said when on the original ship "one of these castaways will win the title of Survivor and a million bucks" or something close to that....They showed quick shots of Vee, Zoe, John and one more (I believe either Gina or Rob M). As he said the word "one", Vee's pic popped up. In the opening credits, Vee and Peter were very similar, however the scene following Vee was the "fire" that led into Gina's shot. I got a lot of clues from the order castaways were in the Glossary on the CBS website...Its difficult for me to put in words, but if you look at it you can see a pattern... ETOnline- every player was shown before booted at some point in time, thus any players not shown yet at all were not booted. I was the one with the Paschal/3 women thingee.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-23-02, 06:12 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " Its difficult for me to put in words, but if you look at it you can see a pattern... Try to put it into words. I don't see a pattern. "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-23-02, 02:03 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " He's been playing Survivor bingo with Mararotu too much.   Top

IslandFever 205 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-23-02, 04:03 AM (EST) 11. "SNews" I didn't get too much from the show's editing but I did notice that on SurvivorNews.net that many times an article featuring that week's bootee would be in the upper left corner. This made me think that Snewser had some pretty reliable inside info. The wierd thing was that before Zoe was booted her picture was in the upper left with an article but Robert was predicted that week. I kept with Neleh due to the backward imaging but thought it didn't add up that her image was so maligned towards the end. I knew the Tahiti Press was false when they said the final 2 were a male and a female. They always have been so it wouldn't be news unless it was 2 females or less so 2 males. And still I predicted Pappy in the final 2. I just couldn't stomach Vee winning. MB kept emphasizing Neleh and Kathy toward the end by camera shots. I figured one actuallly was in the final 2 and one was misdirection. Actualy I think Sean won by proxy as the story line was his for much of the time. So it seems the minority rules S1-gay, S2-female, S3-Jewish, S4-Black female. So for S5 we need a half Black, Chinese, lesbian, Buddhist winner and we will hit all the bases.   Top

snoocharoo 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-23-02, 04:40 PM (EST) 14. "RE: SNews" You forgot the "handicapable" and "native American" representation   Top

Survivor Freak 1987 47 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 05-30-02, 04:49 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Hindsight is 20/20... " Here are a few When JP said that one person would walk away with the million dollar prize on the first episode one of the people they showed whiel he said million was vee During the preview of the last episode, you could see that rosieodonald was wearing a maraamu bufff, which was veceipas origional tribe And also the fire right after veceipas face during the openeing pictures   Top

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