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"OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion"
Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 02:17 PM (EST)
 
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"OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
I think we're all done with this book now. Right? So let's discuss Part 3 and the book as a whole. Here's some discussion questions to get it started.1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers? 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel?
3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes?
4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section? 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit? 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy?  
Save a horse, ride a cowboy.
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 04:02 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
Always making me think, you are.1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers? While Meriam and her mother enjoyed good times, her mother's negativity really played a role in Meriam trusting her. And Meriam suffered because of who she was - a bastard (I don't have the book to look up the "h" word). Jalil was always good to her and showered her with love (even if it was only once a week). As a result, he could do no wrong, and Meriam's mother could do no right. Her mother's suicide was the turning point. It started her on her guilt path. And the realization came too late. Laila suffered negativity from her mother because of who she wasn't - one of her mother's sons. But at least this realization did come before her mother was killed, and there was somewhat of a peace made there. I don't know why Meriam was never able to carry and deliver her own child. Perhaps it was a higher power or fate protecting a child from having to live in Rasheed's house. Perhaps it was a higher power or fate "punishing" Meriam by denying her motherhood since she betrayed her own mother. Laila was blessed with Tariq's child and perhaps her pregnancies were fate's way of giving Meriam a chance. Laila, Aziza and Zalmai were Meriam's redemption. She was able to give love, receive love and she gave up everything - including here life for them. Laila received love and ultimately protection from Meriam that she didn't receive from her own mother. 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel? I think the men's "brains" ultimately inhibited their ability to think and to see. While the women were smart, they thought more with their hearts, which provided clearer seeing and thinking.
3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes?
Interesting. I'm not really sure. I think it could have been any given movie, but this was just that time. Perhaps there is relevance to the fact that here was this ship, hitting an iceberg and then sinking, and there was hope for survival (and for death of certain characters) and someone to root for. Where Afghanistan had hit many "icebergs" (representing the changes), and here was a chance for hope and for someone to root for. 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section? I have said it, and I have seen others agree. Prior to this, I was ignorant to life in Afghanistan, and everything I had known had been from the standpoint of an American, post 9/11. The firt 3 parts helped me to understand, helped me to relate, helped me to empathize. It gave me a new perspective and a better understanding of why someone would want to go back there and would want to be proud. 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit? I didn't expect it, but I don't know that I was surprised. I don't think I thought he had "died," but rather that he was more of an invalid. I had not suspected this from Rasheed. I had not given him enough credit for being that smart. 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy? Yes, but there will always be the scars of the past. As long as they have Aziza and Zelmai's relationship with Tariq continues in a positive way, I think they can. I do wonder if going back is something that Laila needs to just get out of her system or if she is really in it for the long haul. But I think that as long as the two of them are together, they can be happy. And I forgot about the new baby. I do hope it's a girl.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 04:22 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
Hope for survival... very good thought. I hadn't thought of that.
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smokeysmom 184 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 04:19 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
1. Interestingly, I find myself not really remembering so much about Lailas’ relationship to her mother, whereas Miriam’s mothers suicide informed her whole life. Somehow I felt that Liaila and Miriam developed their whole own ‘nother relationship, neither believing that they would have the real unconditional comfort a mother can provide.2. This was one of the most surprising things to me about the whole book – there was hardly any religion or religious explanation for most of the events in the narrative. When I got to this part, I felt that the author put me in the same “WTF?” shoes as the whole country was put in, by suddenly trying to apply “religious” principles to the devastation of a country and a history. I loved how the author left all “that” til “then”. Ouch. 3. I would hope they would write books, dance, paint pictures, etc. before taking chances with their lives for Titanic. To me, their love of the film is like a love of romance, humanity, struggle. Their own artists or poets could have fulfilled this human need, but they had been silenced. People need dreams, and romance. 4. I didn’t quite get that, except that it took the personal out of the story somewhat, and brought us back to the realities in that portion of the world. 4. I WAS SHOCKED! I had no idea. I kept wondering why the man seemed familiar to Laila... Rasheed. you a$#hole. 5. Yes, I think I have to believe that they can be. That they teach their children how not to accept what they did. That’s the only way to change it, right? And I'm with SamBoo -- I really hope its a girl.
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dragonflies 8051 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 06:19 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
LAST EDITED ON 07-09-07 AT 06:21 PM (EST)I did finish this weekend! As I told Weltek on Friday, this was not at all a typical book that I would read. I didn't read Kite Runner last year, but am thinking of going back and reading it after all of these are done. 1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic
importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and
Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers? Symbolically, it shows the difference in their relationship over time. At first they were rivals of a sort, then became friends, and then even more than friends. As far as their relationships with their own moms, neither had very supportive moms or good relationships with them. Both experienced "good times", but more "bad times" with their moms. As a result, they didn't trust each other much. For Miriam, the suicide of her mother pushed her on the road of guilt, whereas Laila was able to separate herself from her mother, and maintain a more positive life outlook. I found it interesting that both had better experiences with their fathers (well, until Jalil betrayed Mariam). 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors
and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel? The irony is found in the near complete destruction that was caused by the men and their wars. 3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes? When people are completely repressed, they will find ways to rebel. We've seen similar things happen throughout history, whenever a country/people were beting completely dominated. (Think Anne Frank) Watching Titanic seems to be what the majority chose for this rebellion, of sorts. What struck me as odd is that it didn't seem the Taliban did much to counteract the effects of Titanic. 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How
does it change the effect of this final section? Phooey on me, I didn't even notice this. 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the
depth of Rasheed's deceit? I totally didn't see that coming. However, after thinking about it, and having learned more and more about Rasheed, it didn't surprise me in the least that he would sink to such depths. 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy? Yes. They will always have scars from the past, but their relationship was so strong, that I believe it will overcome any obstacles they would face. What a great love story it turned out to be in the end! 
smokeysmom rocks!
etf extra bold
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 08:59 AM (EST)
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9. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
I too wondered about the title of the book, and I tend to agree with your thought.But in this context here, I see this line really talking about Meriam. She was always described with the long face and as not exactly being attractive. But she was so beautiful on the inside, and I think this speaks of her inner beauty.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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Karchita 4483 desperate attention whore postings
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07-09-07, 07:11 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
LAST EDITED ON 07-09-07 AT 07:12 PM (EST)Good questions ... 1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers? I am not sure I see any symbolism, but I do see a sort of balancing. Mariam had a relationship with her mother, but no daughter. Laila had a relationship with her daughter, but no real functioning mother, since she emotionally abandoned her. Marian and Laila formed a relationship that was like mother-daughter, and they gave each other what they had missed out on previously. 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel? The irony is that the men of the Taliban caused problems for everyone and by turning herself in to stand trial, Mariam was trying to make things better for Laila and her children. In a way, she was outsmarting them because Laila could go on to live the sort of life the Taliban didn’t want women to have. 3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes? I think this what inevitably happens anywhere in a totalitarian regime. It could be that this is simply what really happened in Kabul, or it could have some deeper meaning. I think water imagery appears throughout the book whenever people are being congenial, so maybe the popularity of that movie, is meant to show that the Afghanis still felt a bond for each other no matter the repression of the Taliban. I also like the idea of the message of hope in the movie having special appeal for the people of Kabul. 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section? I didn’t notice this as I was reading, but I think it lent a feeling of optimism to the ending. Oddly, when I read The Kite Runner, I did notice that Hosseini did the same thing for the ending.
5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit? Yes, I was surprised. No, I also didn’t think Rasheed was smart enough. 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy? Yes, I think their relationship is built on mutual respect and love and the author intended us to think they will be happy.
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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 09:49 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter....I think it was clear Miriam was the more "experienced" one in living as an adult woman and it was a natural role, especially given the nature of how Laila came to live with them. I think it symbolized the recognition for each of them, that despite their mothers' faults, the love and sacrifice their mother's endured was made apparent to them. They came to know the struggles their own mothers had and felt compelled to push through life making ammends with their ghosts. IMHO.
2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel?
Western societies treat women as equals (*snort* for the most part), thus it was silly to cite Westerners for providing the sexist logic. 3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market... I was surprised by this. It seemed a silly risk to take, but for some reason, it was a worthwhile risk for the Afgahnis. I think for the women, the idea of being treated like a princess and living the life of luxury was very appealing. Rose was in a higher class than Jack in that movie. Starcrossed lovers. It was a position many Afgahni women probably found very appealing. For Afgahni men, they might have found it appealing that Jack rose above the class structure and became a hero to Rose. I do think many art forms encourage us to think anything is possible, to open our minds to outside ways of doing things. The Tailiban preferred to keep people in the dark ages. As for literal art such as statues, etc, it was very much a rejection of idolizing anything other than Allah. 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section? For me, it transported me into the reality that this novel was not a story of the 1800s. It was very real, very present and I think the author wanted to force us to realize Afgahnistan was once a great country and longs to be a great country once again...however, it still faces many struggles. 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit? I WAS surprised. I thought the visit from the man telling of Tariq's death was VERY strange and found it a bit unbelievable, but I hadn't thought it was a clever ruse by Rasheed. I expected a con by that man, but it never came to fruition, so I just accepted it for what it was on the surface. 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy? Yes. Although I think our standards vs. Laila and Tariq's standards of happy are a bit different. I think by living a life of purpose, they will find happiness. 
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 11:03 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers?
Everyone else has answered this better then I could, so I'll just ditto. 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel? I agree with Weltek, the irony is that in most Western civilizations woman are considered equals. 3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes?
I hadn't thought about the hope for survival angle before and now I really like that. I think they all risked it to be able to escape for awhile. Escape on the big beautiful ship. 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section?
I think he did this in Kite Runner too. I think his intent is to show us how Afghanistan was in the past and how they became to be country strife with civil war. 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit?
Very surprised! I also didn't think Rasheed was smart enough to pull something like that off, or even think it up. 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy?
Yes. I think they will be very happy together as a family.
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Breezy 18380 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 11:05 AM (EST)
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12. "Another question" |
Where you surprised that Jalil left Mariam her share of the inheritance?
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RiverGirl 58 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 11:53 AM (EST)
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14. "RE: Another question" |
I wasn't surprised by this. I think Jalil was a good guy deep down, and wanted to do the right thing. A bit of a coward, but overall he knew what was right.
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 02:39 PM (EST)
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19. "RE: Another question" |
No, I was not surprised. Especially in light of his attempt to visit her and her rejection.Also, I have the impression that his wives (surviving ones) would not have known how much he was worth, etc. So he may have been able to do it with no one knowing.
Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.
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Lasann 3616 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 11:39 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
1. This question is so deep that I can't even begin to answer. The peeps up there have done a good job.2. Well, Western doctors have proved some differences in women and men's brains but I'm not sure what he was referencing, perhaps the more emotional side of women. 3. I can image the longing to see something other than what was happening around me. The most popular movie at the time would probably be one thing I would like to see. I also wondered about the movie reference and the fact that Mariam's father was supposed to take her to the movie. The second part of this question actually fits with the book I'm reading about America's christian far right. They also want to chip away at our freedom of expression in art, movies, music, television, private lives. We should be grateful to our founding fathers. Otherwise, if they could, these radical crazies would take away all our freedoms and we would be limited to the Creation Museum for entertainment. 4. To give the reader the impression that Afghanistan's past was both good and bad and that the present is hopeful. 5. Yes, no. 6. Yes, I think they are and will be despite what the future holds.  A Syren creation
Silent complicity with apocalyptic rherotic soon becomes collusion with plans for religiously inspired genocide. - Richard K. Fenn
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RiverGirl 58 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 11:58 AM (EST)
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16. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
LAST EDITED ON 07-10-07 AT 06:28 PM (EST)How did every one feel about the ending of the book? Was it a little too easy for Laila to get back together with Tarique? Was it really realistic that they could come together again? I don't think it was overly realistic, but I was happy that one of the two women got her "happy ending." Although there will certainly be a lot of emotional scarring for both Laila and Tarique to overcome. But at least they are together. It gave me a much needed glimmer of hope and optimism. Edited to fix spelling.
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weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 12:17 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
I don't think it was "unrealistic" they could get together so easily and the story of how they came back to work in the orphanage. However, I think it was unrealistic their lives in those years won't more impacted by violence.
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CTgirl 8013 desperate attention whore postings
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07-10-07, 09:13 PM (EST)
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20. "RE: OTBC Thousand Splendid Suns Final Discussion" |
I just had a marathon reading session all day (inside in air-conditioning to beat the heat  ). I loved this book even more than The Kite Runner. When it came out, I read the reviews and had opted not to read it because I wasn’t sure I would want to read the section set during the Taliban era. Thanks Breezy for picking this; I may not have read it otherwise and it’s the best book I’ve read in a quite a while.1. At several points in the story, Mariam and Laila pass themselves off as mother and daughter. What is the symbolic importance of this subterfuge? In what ways is Mariam’s and Laila’s relationship with each other informed by their relationships with their own mothers? To me, the most important symbolism is that after all Mariam’s heartaches over her miscarriages and her anger at Rasheed in taking a second wife, Laila finally gave her the family she had desperately wanted since she was a little girl. Mariam realized that Nana had been a good mother and was trying to protect her from the world so she was able to step in and stand up for Laila unconditionally and give her life for her. 2. One of the Taliban judges at Mariam’s trial tells her, “God has made us different, you women and us men. Our brains are different. You are not able to think like we can. Western doctors and their science have proven this.” What is the irony in this statement? How is irony employed throughout the novel?
The irony is in how he twisted the facts. Western doctors have proven that men and woman think differently but not that females can’t think as well (or better!) I honestly didn’t notice much irony in the book. 3. Among other things, the Taliban forbid “writing books, watching films, and painting pictures.” Yet despite this edict, the film Titanic becomes a sensation on the black market. Why would people risk the Taliban’s violent reprisals for a taste of popcorn entertainment? What do the Taliban’s restrictions on such material say about the power of artistic expression and the threat it poses to repressive political regimes? We’ve seen time and time again in history that if you try to tamp something down creatively, it’ll just escape in another form (or on the black market). Human beings need creative outlets and entertainment. The Taliban was noted for cycles of crack-downs so I assumed the Titanic fever was during a lenient period. I did find it funny that Titanic was even more popular there than in the US (Titanic rugs!). 4. While the first three parts of the novel are written in the past tense, the final part is written in present tense. What do you think was the author’s intent in making this shift? How does it change the effect of this final section? I thought that he wrote the last section in present tense because he was talking about present day Afghanistan. He wanted the story to end there, if he had written the last section in the past then we wouldn’t have the hope that he gave to the ending of the book – a reborn Afghanistan and a new baby, an eternal sign of rebirth and renewal. 5. Were you surprised when Tariq returned? Had you suspected the depth of Rasheed's deceit? I was slightly surprised when Tariq returned - I didn’t think he was dead, but I didn’t know when he would return or how crippled he would be. I was really surprised by Rasheed’s deceit – I didn’t think he had it in him! 6. Do you think Laila and Tariq can be happy? Yes.  
Summertime by Sharnina
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