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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 07:40 AM (EST) "SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" THIS SUNDAY, MAY 19, AT 8pm ET/PT Note: This added for those of you who might still not have that in your heads. It's down to Paschal, Neleh, Vecepia, and Kathy: Last-minute deals, surprise twists of fate, two Immunity Challenges, and two Tribal Councils later, two of these castaways will face a Jury of seven and be asked to answer for their actions on the island. Bonds of friendship and feelings of betrayal surface during a heated final Tribal Council. Find out who wins Survivor: Marquesas when the final vote is revealed LIVE from New York's famed Central Park on the two-hour season finale! Then stay tuned to see all 16 castaways reunite for the first time, also live from New York, on a special reunion broadcast hosted by Rosie O'Donnell! Poll question is simple enough: Who will be the SOLE SURVIVOR? Note: left to right, top to bottom: Kathy Vee Neleh Paschal "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... SurvivinDawg 05-17-02 1  RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... cowboyroo 05-17-02 2    RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... Loree 05-17-02 3        RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... Ra_8secs 05-18-02 15    RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... bebekid 05-17-02 4        RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... ShowMeTheWinner 05-17-02 5            RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... SurvivaBear 05-17-02 6            RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... MC_Hampster 05-17-02 8  RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Fina... Spidey 05-17-02 7  Additional propaganda--SeeBS Newsle... George Tirebiter 05-17-02 9  Vee wins immunity MattyMax 05-17-02 10  A Couple More Pieces.... Kokoro 05-17-02 11    RE: A Couple More Pieces.... shakes the clown 05-17-02 12        RE: A Couple More Pieces.... Loree 05-17-02 13        RE: A Couple More Pieces.... forehead 05-17-02 14            RE: A Couple More Pieces.... Bebo 05-20-02 20  New Radio Promo sweetpea 05-18-02 16    RE: New Radio Promo cutie 05-19-02 17    John Quote Spidey 05-19-02 18    Correction sweetpea 05-19-02 19

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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 07:46 AM (EST) 1. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" Dawg's $0.02: This is really written up and embellished (New York's "famed" Central Park), but the only thing worthy of attention is the "heated" final Tribal Council.... that's when the Jury questions the Final Two, if my memory serves me correctly. Maybe John gets into it with someone. "Pappy, you smuggled! I'm so proud of you!" -- Neleh Dennis *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-17-02, 10:29 AM (EST) 2. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" "Feelings of betrayal" during the intense tribal council would most likely refer to Pappy, or possibly Neleh. I don't think any of them would accuse Kathy or Vee of betrayal. They all say Vee flip-flopped alliances, but also made it clear that she would be upfront with them about it. 4 of the jury members are there due to Pappy/Neleh changing sides. Kathy was never part of the deal. I could almost visualize a rat/snake speech to Vee/Pappy. Vee didn't go with being 5th wheel on Rotu 5 (snake), but Pappy just turned on them without warning when he said flat out all he had to go with is his word. "Surprise twists of fate" may mean Immunity Challenge interferes with someone's game plan....I don't think it would refer to surprise votes or they would choose a different word than "fate". Last minute deals most likely would be Kathy and Vee. If Kathy votes with Vee in F4, she will take her to F2 if she wins immunity or vice versa. I don't see any scenario that Kathy will not vote with Vee. She made it very clear that she was not aligned with any one at last night's TC, and the smart thing would be to vote with Vee, no doubt. I disagree with a lot of people's assumptions that Pappy would win a jury vote against any of them. I think he would be the least likely to win a jury vote. He's the one that right out broke his word to 4 of the jury members. I think we got a clue with Robert in his interviews when he said his only choices to vote for were Sean/Vee. This was him living up to his bargain that he wouldn't vote for an original Rotu until all Old Maraamus were gone. He said him and Sean were good friends out of the game and had a lot of good talks, but then said his only voting options were Sean/Vee.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 12:05 PM (EST) 3. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" "Feelings of Betrayal" during TC could be how Pappy and Neleh would feel if Kathy joined with Vee for a tie vote. They are now expecting Kathy to go along with them and vote out Vee. But if Kathy decides to vote with Vee against them they may feel betrayed by Kathy since they feel they saved her when they voted out Gina. The biggest betrayal would be if Neleh turned on Pappy and voted with the females to save her own hide. I could see Pappy being very upset and he'd feel like a fool. And I think Neleh is capable of turning on Pappy to save her own skin. She has that sneaky little smile that makes you want to reach in the TV and slap her. I think if Vee or Kathy won immunity and Neleh was scared she would be a target she might agree to vote out Pappy. She may worry that she would lose a tie vote and want to be sure of making it to final 3. I don't think Pappy would turn on Neleh, but I do think Neleh would turn to save herself. And Pappy would feel betrayed.   Top

Ra_8secs 1081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Politically Incorrect Guest" 05-18-02, 00:15 AM (EST) 15. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" What happens on a tribal council tie, since votes against supposedly don't count? I can definetly see Kathy/Vee and Neleh/Paschal squareing off. Then it's a quiz contest? That's the "tribal loyalties" breakdown, I think. and hugs and sunshine for all, Ra   Top

bebekid 1621 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-17-02, 03:47 PM (EST) 4. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" >Last minute deals most likely would >be Kathy and Vee. If >Kathy votes with Vee in >F4, she will take her >to F2 if she wins >immunity or vice versa. I >don't see any scenario that >Kathy will not vote with >Vee. She made it very >clear that she was not >aligned with any one at >last night's TC, and the >smart thing would be to >vote with Vee, no doubt. Cowboyroo, tell me why you think this. The only reason that I can see that Kathy would vote WITH Vee in the final 4 is if Vee has immunity. Neleh and Pappy would not vote for each other, can't vote for Vee, Kathy would be their only option. The best Kathy could hope for in that scenario is to win the tie-breaker (whatever it is) and that is too risky. Why risk 4th place when she is guaranteed at least 3rd with Pappy and Neleh? And I'm certain that Pappy and Neleh will return the favor to Kathy for not siding with Sean and Vee last night. bebe   Top

ShowMeTheWinner 962 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 05-17-02, 05:33 PM (EST) 5. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" I still stand by to what I said in one of the threads before last episode and I absolutely agree with cowboyroo that Kathy will make a good choice in aligning with Vee next unless Paschal or Neleh wins the next IC. I know some posters think that the K/V alliance will be a stupid move so I'm going to argue against it here and try to answer the critics who are against this move. Objection 1: Kathy will not look good in front of the jury because she'd look like she had betrayed Paschal and Neleh Kathy is not a backstabber because she never has an alliance with Paschal and Neleh in the first place. That is not an assumption but a fact because we got to see the Jerry Springer show last episode around the campfire where everyone, except for Paschal, explicitly said that they did not have an official alliance. Voting together with P/N last episode should also not be considered as the three of them being an alliance together. I think up until the end, Kathy does not even know who to choose between P/N and S/V, and even if K does have an alliance with P/N, that alliance is not tight because she was definitely considering voting with S/V. I also don't see what's wrong with levelling the playing field now by aligning with Vee to make it 2 against 2. IMHO, Kathy's still playing the game fair and square, and she's just ensuring that she's given the same fair chance to go into final two. If Paschal and Neleh can have a pact, why can't the same privilege be used by her to advance to final two? Objection 2: Kathy owes Paschal and Neleh a favor because they kept her around instead of Gina When it comes to favors, Kathy doesn't owe Neleh and Pap anything. They didn't vote her off against Gina and Kathy didn't vote Nelly off against Sean. They're all quits now. Objection 3: Kathy will go with the person whom she thinks is the most deserving of the million and Vee is not the person. Kathy made it real clear last episode during her confessional that ultimately she's still looking out for herself to win the game. And who can blame her? She's the most deserving of the final four to win the million because she's made risky decisions and took her chances instead of going wherever her bread is buttered. If Paschal and Neleh wouldn't let the most deserving person win, why should she extend that privilege to them? There are 2 scenarios where I think Kathy will make a good move by aligning with Vee. Scenario 1 is like what I was saying in one of the threads before last episode: Vee winning immunity. Kathy is the automatic target of Paschal and Neleh. To save herself, Kathy could align with Vee because Kathy is going to get voted off unless she does so. There is no way that Paschal and Neleh would vote against each other at this point. Vee would also do well by aligning with Kathy as she'd most definitely be the next to go if she doesn't win the next IC. And since Vee is safe from this vote because of the IN, she might as well take her chances now because she'd certainly be the next to go if she were to continue to stick with P/N. Scenario 2 is if Kathy wins immunity. Same as above. Just change the names Vee with Kathy and vice versa. This will be a dangerous play for Kathy however, if Paschal and Neleh wins immunity. If Kathy makes her move and Vee is worried about her position and doesn't want to take chances, she could go to P/N and tell them about the plan. And knowing Vee's history of flip-flopping, Kathy's better off with the final 3 insurance of sticking with P/N. I sure hope that Kathy will see this (and I'm confident that she will) and take Vee to final two if she or Vee were to win the next IC. All the best to my favorite Survivor, Kathy O. Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor!   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 05:53 PM (EST) 6. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" I just have to post my complete agreement with you, Show Me. Although I agree that voting with Vee has it's risk, I believe it is her only chance at taking it all. I think Kathy sees this and I know Kathy itends to "go there". Beware the Bear! Thanks IceCat!   Top

MC_Hampster 105 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-17-02, 06:28 PM (EST) 8. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" This will be a dangerous play for Kathy however, if Paschal and Neleh wins immunity. If Kathy makes her move and Vee is worried about her position and doesn't want to take chances, she could go to P/N and tell them about the plan. And knowing Vee's history of flip-flopping, Kathy's better off with the final 3 insurance of sticking with P/N. I think Vee would be smart enough to stick with Kathy if Kathy approached her. I don't think immunity is the issue. I don't think Kathy has anything to lose by ganging up with Vee. P/N WILL vote for Vee next Tribal counsel, barring immunity. If there ends up being a tie breaker and K/V lose, Kathy still makes final 3. And she knows they will vote her off at final 3 regardless of whether she joins with Vee or not. Kathy really has nothing to lose (except maybe Jury votes). -MC   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 06:27 PM (EST) 7. "RE: SeeBS Misdirection, Ep. 13 Finale" >It's down to Paschal, Neleh, Vecepia, >and Kathy: Last-minute deals, surprise >twists of fate, two Immunity >Challenges, and two Tribal Councils >later, two of these castaways >will face a Jury of >seven and be asked to >answer for their actions on >the island. > My take on "surprise twists of fate" is that it is either something IC related, as others have said (stupid mistake, pure guess, Neleh and Pappy getting blown from the totem pole during the endurance challenge from a slight breeze...), or perhaps how a tie vote is resolved? Something random and arbitrary? (Which I personally think would suck.) Another possibility is they are just pumping up the finale and there is no meaning here whatsoever. Twists of fate is vague and mysterious, must be something great, oooh...   Top

George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-17-02, 06:36 PM (EST) 9. "Additional propaganda--SeeBS Newsletter #12 5/17/02" SDawg, I'm going to tack on today's Still Standing Newsletter #12 here, because it doesn't merit a new thread: NUKU HIVA. On Night 36, at a Tribal Council in which strategies evolved and disagreements emerged, Kathy Vavrick-O'Brien's swing vote went with Neleh and Paschal, and Sean Rector became the twelfth castaway to be kicked off the island. For all the latest, including Sean's Final Words, log on to the Official SURVIVOR website: http://www.cbs.com/survivor. And don't forget to vote in the Final Four Sole Survivor Poll. Who will leave Nuku Hiva with $1 million: Neleh, Paschal, Kathy or Vecepia? THIS SUNDAY, MAY 19, 8pm ET/PT It's down to Paschal, Neleh, Vecepia, and Kathy: Last-minute deals, surprise twists of fate, two Immunity Challenges, and two Tribal Councils later, two of these castaways will face a Jury of seven and be asked to answer for their actions on the island. Bonds of friendship and feelings of betrayal surface during a heated final Tribal Council. Find out who wins SURVIVOR: MARQUESAS when the final vote is revealed LIVE from New York's famed Central Park on the two-hour season finale! Then stay tuned to see all 16 castaways reunite for the first time, also live from New York, on a special reunion broadcast hosted by Rosie O'Donnell! ***** Don't miss a special encore presentation of Thursday's episode of SURVIVOR: MARQUESAS on Saturday at 8:00 ET/PT. So--this time their so-called newsletter reads exactly like the website? (<<Thought I'd throw that in for those who might struggle to find a difference.) Figures they'd be even more stingy than usual, but I have to wonder--Why bother?! *sigh* Oh, for a good ol' EYEmail to ponder over. . . GT Doing nothing is tiring, 'cause you can't take a break!   Top

MattyMax 515 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-17-02, 06:40 PM (EST) 10. "Vee wins immunity" It seems that the 'last minute deals' must imply that Vee wins immunity. Kathy won't turn on Paschal and Neleh, because she's been loyal & she has a really good chance at beeting them in the last IC. If Vee wins immunity, then there would have to be some sort of 'last minute deal', because Fallen Comrads IC ALWAYS takes place at TC, and the vidcaps support this for this year. Now, what deals are possible? Well, Neleh and Paschal have to vote for Kathy, So Kathy must side with Vee. Who will Kathy and Vee target? I bet they strategized about it before the challenge. Neleh is the bigger challenge threat (poor pappy can't even stand up, or put together a puzzle), but there's probably a challenge to break the tie, so Pappy may be the easier kill. I am thinking of other situations that could break down, but I don't see many other realistic 'deals' occuring. Ohh... I'm so excited for a HEATED final tribal coucil. I hope they yell. I think that because of the Rotu4 & Sean, any possible permutation of finalists would be heated. I really really really hope that Vee wins Fallen Comrads, she has the best odds, having been on every single survivor's team at one point. MM   Top

Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-17-02, 07:12 PM (EST) 11. "A Couple More Pieces...." LAST EDITED ON 05-17-02 AT 07:14 PM (EST) 1.) Remember the recap when Kathy said something along the lines of buying Gina a log cabin when it was all over (while voting her off)? I don't remember the exact quote but this should be a factor - is it misdirection? Is it mis-misdirection? ;) 2.) Gina: "I know the final 2 and I'm pretty sure I know who won." While I don't think anyone has sat down and really explained the game and the boot order to Gina, if she knows the winner it ~may~ be obvious to us as well. As it stands now, the only way I see her knowing the winner is if Vee is in there. Of course, she could think much less of (one of) K/P/N then we have been led to believe.... EDIT: Grammatically incorrect ;) ----------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again.   Top

shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-17-02, 08:40 PM (EST) 12. "RE: A Couple More Pieces...." >2.) Gina: "I know the final >2 and I'm pretty sure >I know who won." ...I was just thinking aobut this today, only I couldn't remember exactly how she said it....did she definitely say that "I know who won" or did she say "I know who I would've voted for." You're probably right Koko, but for some reason I seem to remember it the latter way. Does anyone know for sure. Your way makes more sense cause unless Vee is in the finals how would Gina have a clear cut choice since she appeared to get along with K/P and N.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-17-02, 11:23 PM (EST) 13. "RE: A Couple More Pieces...." Gina said when she was still on the show that she realized that Kathy wasn't liked that much by Pappy and Neleh. So since she was kept separate from the jury, I wonder if Gina just assumes that everyone felt that way about Kathy. So she thinks Pappy or Neleh would win over Kathy. What I remember was that Gina said she didn't know who won but she knows who the final 2 are. Then she stated that she felt she knew who the winner would be between them. So this could all be Gina's opinion with her limited knowledge of how the jury would think. And Gina did not spend any time with alot of the jury members. I don't think Gina would really have any idea who voted for who. But I do not think she would have seemed so sure if the final 2 was between Neleh and Pappy. Gina seemed to like them equally.   Top

forehead 932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 05-17-02, 11:31 PM (EST) 14. "RE: A Couple More Pieces...." http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/2740.shtml (interview with Gina posted by Bebo) Relevant part: =================== I know you can’t tell us, but do you know who won? We know who the final two are because we’re all very close. But nobody knows who won -- we have our ideas -- but the show has proved to expect the unexpected. So keep watching because it gets even better -- I can guarantee that. =================== As Bebo added: - They know the final two and have a pretty good idea who won. Hmm, doesn't sound like another 4-3 vote to me.   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-20-02, 08:36 AM (EST) 20. "RE: A Couple More Pieces...." As Bebo added: - They know the final two and have a pretty good idea who won. Hmm, doesn't sound like another 4-3 vote to me. <<Waving to my fellow spoilers>> Oh my heck, forehead had to find this quote from me. Time for me to start eating some serious crow. Rude snot fluent in Sarcastic...and those are my good points. 'Canes Rock! Beat Canada!   Top

sweetpea 223 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-18-02, 03:25 PM (EST) 16. "New Radio Promo" I heard a new radio promo today while in my car. I couldn't write down the words so they are apprxomate. The VO said (when referring to the final TC), something like "the most unexpecteded vote ever". Then John saying "I didn't believe HER when she said that to me."   Top

cutie 58 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-19-02, 04:33 AM (EST) 17. "RE: New Radio Promo" i immediately think of vee. i remembered john saying that when vee told him that she would not vote for rob, john said she lost trust in her. maybe john voted for neleh making this an unexpected vote? (though i dont think so)   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-19-02, 10:17 AM (EST) 18. "John Quote" To me this could be John giving his reasons for NOT voting for Neleh. He didn't beleive the sweetpea act she was giving in her final speech? I really don't know why John would tell us he "isn't done yet" just to make a predictable vote for Neleh over Vee. What would he really have against Vee anyway? She still though she was with the Rotu 4 when her coconuts got smashed. John broke that deal. This could also be referring to Neleh in a F2 with Kathy, same reasons. I still can't buy Kathy not making F2. I just think she would have been edited differently. So many people (viewers) really like her now and are rooting for her - what a letdown if she doesn't get to F2.   Top

sweetpea 223 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-19-02, 12:05 PM (EST) 19. "Correction" I heard the radio promo again just now. The exact words were: "The most OUTRAGIOUS vote" And, "I didn't believe her when she LIED to me"   Top

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