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PLEASE NOTE: The Reality TV World Message Boards are filled with desperate
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"Zoe's Vote at the TC"
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-19-02, 01:20 AM (EST)
 
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8. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-19-02 AT 01:22 AM (EST)i originally thought so too katem, when i first contemplated a zoe defection. however, i'm not so sure now. John only knows he got 5 votes, and cannot be sure that one of his alliance members voted against him, much less which one. furthermore, i think he (though not necessarily Tammy or Robert) would give her credit for doing what she needed to do when it was clear nothing she could have done would save the original alliance. should she make the final 2, i would not be surprised to see John vote for her over his enemies, Sean and Vee, or Paschal and Neleh, who also swore to vote with him. against Kathy, i think she'd at worst be an even bet for john's vote. so unless she goes up against T or R (all but an impossibility), i think Zoe will get at least 1 of the 3 votes (and if she goes up against T or R, taht would leave only two of the three to vote against her as it is). 
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Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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04-19-02, 07:47 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
I read 2 articles on two different Survivor Sites, including the ECST, (more than once),
and I still have trouble believing it  .I don't know how a vote for John; would make any difference, at this point, IMHO. She gloatingly and willingly smashed those cocconuts, along with J/T/R; which were visible to K/N/P/S/V. Furthermore, she lied (badly) to Kathy (at least) twice (that we know of). I really can't see this vote garnering favour with K/N/P/S/V,
and since she is an unlikely candidate,
IMO, for the Final four;
it would be irrelevant for J/T/R. Why did she do it? Was she sensitive to the
changing tides of power.
From what, we have seen so far; she has shown extreme insensitivity, in recent weeks. On the other hand; she obviously liked Gabe, even 'though she voted for him.
According to Sarah, she, along with Neleh, helped her with her bout of seasickness. As I see it, the 1st 3 targets of the NewMu/OldMu alliance
would probably be: Tammy/Zoe/Robert--due to T/Z, being bigger immunity threats than R; due as well, to Tammy's overconfidence. If Kathy is stupid enough to still trust her; which I hope not,
she (Zoe) might last longer than Robert. Since Pashal wasn't to happy to align with Sean/Vee
--especially Sean; it remains to be seen,
if this newly formed, shaky alliance, will hold. 
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BaquaR13 1336 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 00:46 AM (EST)
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6. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
I am hinting at the possibility that she might have held it up to the camera but perhaps they just didnt show it, possible to keep it secret. But i dont know why they would want to keep it secret...
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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity"
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04-19-02, 01:23 AM (EST)
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9. "Zoe does it all the time" |
>I am hinting at the possibility
>that she might have held
>it up to the camera
>but perhaps they just didnt
>show it, possible to keep
>it secret. But i dont
>know why they would want
>to keep it secret
...actually the post that got deleted by heymikey was correct, she never said anything. Its obvious from watching this show that during the vote the survivors are instructed to write theur vote then hold it up to the camera and give a cute little speech about your vote.
I noticed during the Gaybe vote that Zoe wrote her vote and then folded it right there on the table and put it in the jug w/o saying anything. I remember thinking how odd that was, but then to see her do it again its clear that she simply has absolutely nothing to say, ever. She really is quickly becoming my most hated Survivor ever. And her vote tonight was completely unnecessary.
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-19-02, 09:34 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
I dont think that Kathy and Zoe are tight, otherwise Kathy would have been at least mentioned Zoe as a possible swing vote in her favor during the show.VanQ, please don't take this personally, because I really am posting it to be helpful, BUT: You MUST learn that Mark Burnett shows us what he WANTS us to see. You didn't SEE Kathy speak of Zoe as a swing vote BECAUSE (if it happened) MB did not allow that to be edited into the show. Just because you SAW Kathy complaining that Zoe lied to her face (after their beach conversation), doesn't mean that Kathy & Zoe didn't come to an agreement later (or even on that beach, though I don't think that happened). My point is that you simply cannot take something that wasn't shown as proof that something did or didn't happen. If you do, then you are putty in MB's soiled hands. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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04-21-02, 07:09 AM (EST)
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37. "Zoe and Kathy (RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC)" |
I think that Kathy is extrmely smart and knows how to read people.
While Kathy and Zoe are definatly not tight
--in other words, Kathy can't trust her
--that doesn't mean that they don't have some kind of alliance.I believe that EPMB is misleading us with Ep. 9's title. The 2 peas are not Neleh and Pashal, but Kathy and Zoe. To quote SurvivorNews.Net's article by Beth Brigham, titled, "Who is Zooooooooooe?", Thursday, April 18th, 2002: "So Zoe has made her stand
and voted against her former alliance. To further heal the rift with Kathy,
Zoe is shown at Tribal Council wearing an upper-arm band just like Kathy's. Two Peas in a pod--looks like a brother--sister pact to me." Shades of Burn-it's misdirection in s2? Remember the secret Colby/Tina bond?
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bergdogg 380 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 01:28 AM (EST)
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10. "Zoe with N/P, NOT KATHY" |
After thinking about it a little, maybe Zoe hasn't been lying one bit (yeah right). She told everyone that she wasn't alligned with John, and tonight she proved that she may not have been. Since nobody else seemed to know though, it really doesn't make sense why she voted to John??To me, everyone was immediately thinking that K/Z are alligned, but I think that is a bridge that was broken a long time ago. Since Sean and Vee didn't know that Zoe wasn't really with John, that only leaves two other people....PAPPY AND NELEH!!!!! We saw Neleh put her head on Zoe's shoulder at TC, and most of us thought nothing of it. We thought it was Neleh showing her weakness to the alliance. Maybe Zoe is N/P's ace in the hole. Not only that, they can fix any bridges that Kathy has, and that leaves us with a four person alliance, and with what seems to be an obvious boot of either Tammy or the General, we can say that they will have the advantage right after this upcoming vote, and S/V may never see it coming. Hulkamania is STILL runnin' WILD!!!!
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Mitrelleum 257 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 02:42 AM (EST)
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12. "RE: Zoe with N/P, NOT KATHY" |
I distinctly remember Zoe not showing her vote for Rob. I have ranted about for the last 3 weeks on my Fanatics Love List. I clearly think, she has missed the point, because even if she had nothing to say, she could have held her vote up to the camera, like in S2 when Colby re-voted for Mitchell, and said nothing. Zoe is probably sitting at home, going "D'oh! I didn't know that!" It's clear, she has never watched the show.
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ShowMeTheWinner 962 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent"
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04-19-02, 05:52 AM (EST)
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13. "RE: Zoe with N/P, NOT KATHY" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-20-02 AT 04:31 AM (EST)The thread is long but basically here's what I think of Kathy: I have very high confidence in Kathy. This is the woman who saw through the Rotu 4 alliance before any of the other people were clued in on it. Remember, she was there on the island and didn't have the benefit of watching over everything like us television viewers at home. We don't even know who to believe on that backstabbers-filled island but this woman did and that said a lot about her smartness. Therefore, I'm not surprised that Kathy would actually think two steps ahead of the game and roped Zoe in as her ally. Neleh has her Pappy, Sean has Vee, Tammy has the General. Where does that leave Kathy and Zoe? She needs an ally to do better than 3rd position when it comes down to S,V,P,N, and her in the final 5. Barring an immunity run, there's no way that one of these people will take her instead of their partners to the final two. With Kathy and Zoe being best friends in the tribe prior to the switch, it will not be difficult to amend their relationships and play the game afresh as two allies. And who better to sit next to at the final TC than the lying backstabber? Something tells me that she's gonna be sitting pretty at the last TC. To me, everyone was immediately thinking that K/Z are alligned, but I think that is a bridge that was broken a long time ago.
This may be one h3ll of a broken bridge but it's still a bridge to the million dollars! Who else would she turn to other than Zoe? Tammy? uh-uh. The General? Nope. John? She may as well kill herself. Zoe's THE choice. Brilliant Kath. Just brilliant!
Evidence to backup Kathy's brilliance:
I stand corrected when I said that Kathy should pretend to play nice and not have voted for Zoe at the episode 7's TC. She made it clear in this week's confessional that she was trying to make Zoe uncomfortable and her TC vote for Zoe did just the trick. If you take OFG's Astrology thread as a spoiler for a person's personality, then Kathy read Zoe like an open book. Like Zoe, I am a Pisces myself and I know that I hate it when people make me uncomfortable and make me feel guilty. Kathy's working on Zoe and boy, did she have a major pay-off!
Kathy is also self-aware (as evidenced by her saying in Mara that she was a bad leader) and is not delusional like Paschal and Neleh before they opened their eyes. Kathy knew that her position in the game wasn't going to change if she had voted for Rob or anybody else last week. No matter who she voted for, she knew that Sean, Vee, and her had to be next. Why don't she vote for Zoe and see if she could guilt Zoe by either making her part of Zoe's alliance or getting Zoe to defect? And it did work! A billion bonus points for this strategy. I'm really loving Kathy now and I'm pretty sure that I'm not putting her on a pedestal with my analysis of her character here. Here's a woman who's kicking and screaming when her butt is on the line and would actually do something about it. In her confessionals, she had said that she wanted to win and there's no way that she's gonna let people use her to climb their way to the top, which was why she didn't want to align with John et al. She's really heeding her own advice as she knew that Paschal and Neleh or Sean and Vee will do the same thing to her and use her as a swing vote unless she does something about it.
I don't think Zoe is aligned with P and N. If they are like 99% of the people, I think the passive Neleh and Paschal would feel antsy about their last minute choice for John and think of nothing else. On the other hand, Kathy has had 6 days to think over her strategy. She knew that she needed P and N to survive to the end but I think she was also aware that she would win the million if she were aligned with P and N, whom she had said in the Gina-boot episode confessional as "inseparable". So she went to Zoe to mend her bridges and to recruit a much needed ally.
The vote will still go down to 5 to 4 if Zoe had stayed with Rotu 4. In fact Paschal and Neleh would actually make a bad move if they had recruited Zoe. With S,V,P,N,K as the final 5, Kathy is surely going to align with P and N. Why get the extra backstabber who could align with S and V to take you down? Thus, the only Logical person to recruit Zoe is Kathy-- yes dare I say the "L" word-- it exists this season! Hallelujah! This TC is the beginning of the KZ alliance and this vote against John is Kathy's test to Zoe if she'd actually join up with her to take John out.
Kathy O'Brien... The Sole Survivor!
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MeToo 158 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson"
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04-19-02, 03:33 PM (EST)
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27. "RE: Zoe with N/P, NOT KATHY" |
I was just scrolling through the closed captions provided by AyaK - great job Ayak!!!!, Thanks!!! - and I found this quote which I believe to have been spoken by Kathy:>> I need to have paschal experience some of this turmoil. A couple more pieces of turmoil and they see how people act, then they might commit to understanding that the powerful people need to go. This was earlier on in the episode when she had approached Paschal and he was essentially unconcerned about the Rotu-4 alliance. My question is, did Kathy *do* anything about it, or was Paschal's eventual turmoil completely and utterly the events at the IC? What I mean is, did Kathy approach Zoe sometime after this (not shown to us), and did anything else take place OTHER THAN what we saw? This statement certainly outlines her intent. Thoughts?
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samboohoo 17173 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-19-02, 08:49 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
I actually didn't realize what had happened until I read your thread. Then I went to the CBS website to check it out for sure. I haven't done the total research on this, but as I recall, I don't ever remember seeing Zoe give John her word (back when Gabe got the boot). They showed Robert and Tammy, but all Zoe did was sit there and nod, etc. I noticed there was a lot of love going on between Neleh and Zoe at the TC when Rob got the boot. I always suspected those 2 had some sort of bond. Now there's Pappy, Neleh, Kathy and Zoe. Since they didn't show the last vote, Tammy & Robert may not know that Zoe defected. She's got to keep up the scam for one more week. Vee and Sean are still wild cards. If they know Zoe is part of the K/P/N alliance, that puts them in 5th & 6th again and they may go back to Robert and Tammy to force a 4 v. 4, thus earning a shot at 3rd and 4th. Just one thought on Kathy and Zoe. It's hard to tell whether Kathy was the genius all by herself or if that was part of a plan. Kathy and Zoe had been off by themselves before Rob confronted them. We only saw what MB wanted us to see.
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Teddy_Bear 1675 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall"
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04-20-02, 04:13 AM (EST)
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31. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-20-02 AT 04:21 AM (EST)After reading all of these posts,
and reflecting what Kathy said to Paschal; I remembered that Kathy specifically stated that John and Tammy were playing really hard--not Robert or Zoe. Robert let the cat out of the bag during the IC; however, when he asked Tammy, basically, if she wanted to do the honours--regarding chopping Neleh's coconuts. Even though Tammy didn't follow through on this; the damage was already done, IMO. I don't see either one of the staying more than a few more weeks on the island (unless Tammy can be the 2nd survivor contestant ever, to pull off a series of Kelly Wigglesworths), IMHO. For reasons--which are either irrelevant or,--that we are not privy to; Kathy kept her suspicions regarding Zoe, to herself. Could this be a part of the "power shake up," that See-BS is referring to? Damn that EPMB  ! ! ! for keeping us in the dark  .
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SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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04-19-02, 09:49 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
The surprising thing to me about the Zoe vote is not that she cast it but that the CBS website is basically ignoring the fact that she did so.You are hitting the nail very hard on the head, GuessItRains, and I commend you for this observation. In accordance with my Hollow Theory, CBS is ignoring Zoe's vote, making sure not to bring it up because it is very important for the future of the game! I am going to go you and everyone one further, also. Tina Wesson, the champion of Survivor II, made this important observation:"Watch who sits next to each other in Tribal Council. Feel free to review the tape, but if memory serves me correctly, Neleh, Kathy and Zoe were sitting as a group. So what I think happened: Neleh went to Kathy AND ZOE and turned them. They wanted Zoe's vote because they were not sure about Vecepia's(!) As it turned out, they had more than enough. But I'd watch Neleh, Kathy and Zoe very carefully from now on.
*** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
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Granvil the 4th 38 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 11:15 AM (EST)
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22. "Praise for Dawg's Hollow Theory" |
Did anybody notice (after the fact, of course) that the Hollow Theory (HT) was in full effect last week? In the See-BS misdirection for Ep. 8, the first statement was "With "Boston Rob" now gone, Sean and Vecepia vow to fight till the end. But John has his own plans for them." This is PURE HT! John had plans for sure, and we were all speculating on what those plans would be, but that was completely throwing us off of the fact that it wouldn't matter at all what Johnnie-boy wanted. What's more, Survivabear posted a thread dedicated to the HT and didn't clue in on this, and S'Dawg himself even expanded without catching it. My point is that this shows how powerful and well-used the HT actually can be. I'd appreciate Dawg's analysis on a more frequent basis. It certainly looks like it applies to the Zoe cover-up, and we should heed this closely! Granvil
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Blueville 115 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 01:05 PM (EST)
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24. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
Dawg, I'll take Tina Wesson's comments a little further. She said to watch who people hang out with the whole show. Who do they sit next to around the fire? If they win a challenge, who do they look for first to celebrate with? I've been saying since the switch episode that Zoe was aligned with Gabe, Paschal, and Neleh. Which is why it wasn't a lie for her to tell Rob she was not in an alliance with John, Tammy, and Robert. Immediately following the switch episode, I also said that Kathy didn't know what an alliance was, and if she did, she probably THOUGHT she was a part of one. She may not have been then, but she certainly is now. Zoe voted for Gabe because it was the way the tide had turned, and it kept her from exposing herself (so to speak  ) Now she can re-align herself with Paschal, Neleh, and Kathy. I think Zoe's vote for John was a way to prove to Kathy that she wasn't lying to her. Rotu didn't got to TC for the first 10 days or so. To think that there was no alliance building, no discussions between individuals about sticking together, and no sub-tribal relationships built is, IMHO, very naive. Blue
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survivorscott 2191 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 11:36 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
Zoe/Pascal/ Neleh all I keep thinking about was that wink Zoe gave Pappy when the switch happened, Do you think they were together then?
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sweetpea 223 desperate attention whore postings
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04-21-02, 01:05 PM (EST)
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38. "Regular Viewer Has No Idea" |
I thought it was interesting that I spoke to one of my sons who watches every Survivor but has no interest in reading any spoiler boards. He had NO IDEA that Zoe has voted for John and was shocked when I mentioned it. This plays into why Burnett is hiding Zoe's vote as mentioned by others.
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munson 1314 desperate attention whore postings
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04-20-02, 09:16 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
>The surprising thing to me about
>the Zoe vote is not
>that she cast it but
>that the CBS website is
>basically ignoring the fact that
>she did so. Here's the
>exact quote from the site:
>In the end, Neleh and
>Paschal joined Vecepia, Sean and
>Kathy in voting out John
>Carroll. If this was some
>irrelevant throwaway vote, then why
>wouldn't CBS at least offer
>some justification for it? Personally, I think this is an attempt at misdirection by MB to paint Zoe as a target in E9. Until I read differently on this board, I assumed that Zoe voted for Sean along with the rest of the Rotu4. And until this vote was revealed, I assumed that Kathy was still not happy with her based on the Kathy's confessionals during the game. Or put another way, until I learned the facts, I believed that Kathy would make Zoe the prime target on the now Rotu3. Sure, spoilers caught it quickly. The casual viewer might not have.
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shakes the clown 3366 desperate attention whore postings
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04-20-02, 10:27 PM (EST)
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36. "yeah but...." |
> And until this vote
>was revealed, I assumed that
>Kathy was still not happy
>with her based on the
>Kathy's confessionals during the game.
...as I pointed out in my thread about the Rotu alliance Kathy's confessional was from the previous episode and her 3way discussion with Rob and Zoe. I surmised (correctly) that the reason MB was using an old confessional is because he had no inflamatory material from the ep.8 one on one Zoe/kathy conversation, meaning that Zoe and Kathy would make up during their talk in ep.8. It seemed obvious that if Kathy was still distrustful of Zoe after their one on one talk then she would say so in the confessional that followed instead of having to go back and recycle an old confessional from a different conversation.
That was actually the main reason that I predicted that Zoe would defect from Rotu and allign with K/P/N.
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SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings
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04-19-02, 04:46 PM (EST)
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28. "CBS.com has the full clip of the Zoe/Kathy beach talk" |
LAST EDITED ON 04-19-02 AT 04:56 PM (EST)In the videos section for Ep8, is a pretty long clip (the cameramen actaully sits down at one point then later moves around to another angle) of the Zoenigma/Kathy beach scene. http://cgi.cbs.com/video/video.pl/?url=cbs/cbs/g2demand/entertainment/primetime/survivor4/week08/video08_03.rm&proto=rtsp ...honestly it comes across to me that Kathy seems fairly comfortable with Zoenigma's answers. Kathy admits she voted for Zoenigma last TC, Zoenigma says she understands. Kathy still doesn't let Zoenigma off the hook on the Zoenigma/Rob/Kathy confrontation, saying that Zoenigma still should have come clean and admitted to Rob "yes you fool, but we just said you that to fool you." It's clear Kathy still has some recentment about Zoenigma's handling of the issue, although if the "Zoe just lied to my face" comment that was shown on TV after the beach scene is to be believed, maybe Kathy does hold more than some mild resentment against Zoenigma. -SB
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vulcan 56 desperate attention whore postings
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04-20-02, 09:05 AM (EST)
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34. "RE: Zoe's Vote at the TC" |
Could the reason Zoe decided to vote for Johnn was that she too (like Pascal and Neleh) saw her place in the pecking order and she decided to jump ship; She was fourth out even before Neleh and that could have been a big enough slight to make her vote to dissolve the partnership and vote John.
The roach is back bashers bash away
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Goblin 24 desperate attention whore postings
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04-21-02, 04:43 PM (EST)
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39. "The Madonna Strategy" |
A worthwhile idea to pursue is that tactical genius is hidden by editing. While Nurse Johnny Baby or Jerry preens for the camera, waxing elequent on their Machivellian plottings, someone quietly forges a winning strategy. Whatever one might think of Tina Wesson, she understands the backgammen maneuveurs of the game very well.Pascal and Neleh may be tactical geniuses. Winning strategy one: Form a rock-solid alliance, preferably a youth/mature axis (Evil #####/Rudy, Gretchen/Greg, Tina/Colby, Rodger/Liz-Liz). Winning strategy two: Find a third partner who will link to the power of two, either through debt (Keith, Colleen) or because he is pursuing a separate media whore strategy (Archangels Michael and Gabriel). The advantage a team mate like the two Angels provides is the dampening effect they have on alliance building. It becames a taboo topic (Pagong, Kucha, Rotu), which is to the advantage of the power of two. Winning strategy three: Woo the one who knows which way the wind is blowing, and will vote with whomever will win (Nick, Zoe). Even when EPMP throws a monkey wrench in the strategy, Joseph and Mary maintain winning strategy one, establish strategy two (Kathy), and work towards strategy three (Gina, and after merge the reunion with Zoe). Kathy and Zoe are not an alliance. Pascal and Neleh alerted the Sea Captain who knows where the wind blows.
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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