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NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 03-25-02, 04:22 PM (EST) "The Significance of Raiding the Camp" One of the teasers for episode five states that the RC winner gets to raid the camp of the losing tribe. We don't know what the winners are allowed to take, so we must assume they are allowed to take anything material. For the sake of this analysis, I'm going to predict that Rotu wins the RC. First of all, there is no reason to "thow" it, and I'm sure they don't want their camp raided. Coupled with their physical and numerical advantage, they're a good bet to win Javeline RC. Now, this idea of one camp raiding the other is a new one. Why now? Why add this to the mix rather than handing out a bag of doritos and calling it good? Well, I have had a sick feeling ever since I heard about this reward, and it has to do with Mark Burnett. Consider this: The tribal shuffle in S3 did little to prevent the inevitable Pagonging of the dysfunctional Samburus. Boran worked together surreptitiously (signaling to each other, throwing the IC) to ensure a safe merge for the original six Boran, and we still saw an all Boran final four. This must have maddened MB to no end. Rotu was the self proclaimed "Love Tribe", and might as well be poster children for how to work as a team. They're group supportive, they're kind, and they're industrious. How could MB make them turn on each other post-swap if he couldn't get the Boran tribe, who wasn't nearly as cohesive, to do so? So what does he do? The first RC after the swap is to have the losing team's camp pillaged by the winners. Now consider for a moment what that must be like for the losing team. First off, they have very little to survive with -- a couple of pots, some clothes, a knife and whatever they were able to build, catch or collect. Now, imagine that you have been switched to a weaker team, have lost all the challenges since the switch, and the people who you bonded with and worked closely with for ten days ... these people tromp through your camp and take your precious necessities as well as the food you spent the day collecting. Worse case scenario, they take everything: clothes, tools, food. In the back of your mind, MB's ominous words, from the night before you left, ring in your ears "you don't know if there will be a switch, when the merge will happen, or if one will happen." Your life just got a hellofa lot worse. You can't crack a coconut, boil water....and all because of your former tribemates. This is a betrayal pure and simple. Kathy would definitely see it as such since she fully expects Rotu to help her Pappy and Neleh out, and I know I would see it as such as well. Yes, it's part of the game, but to see your former tribe mates ransack your camp after kicking your ass in a challenge? What a sicko MB is. This reward invites, nay, it begs for original tribemates to betray each other. This, my friends, is the end of innocence. Rotu may or may not be headed to TC this week, but the innocence is lost regardless after the winning team takes their reward. I had been thinking that it would be so cool if the Rotus just said "hey, we don't want any of your stuff". But then I realized I was just being naive. Naive = innocent. Then it hit me. If Kathy and crew think that Rotu will back off to benefit Maraamu, she's being naive, as I was. The innocence is lost when we find out Rotu doesn't back off to help Maraamu out, at least in the RC. Will it break up alliances? I don't know what alliances are being formed in Rotu, so I really don't know. What I do know is that Mark Burnett is one EVIL sausage, and I for one am not looking forward to this betrayal.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: The Significance of Raiding the... Bebo 03-25-02 1  RE: The Significance of Raiding the... SurvivinDawg 03-25-02 2    RE: The Significance of Raiding the... TheWanderer 03-25-02 3        Another possibilty cowboyroo 03-25-02 4        RE: The Significance of Raiding the... sonrod 03-25-02 5            RE: The Significance of Raiding the... I_AM_HE 03-26-02 6  RE: The Significance of Raiding the... jkokoj 03-26-02 7  RE: The Significance of Raiding the... pisspoorprotoplasm 03-27-02 8    rules weltek 03-27-02 9  RE: The Significance of Raiding the... JeffGator 03-28-02 10  No one likes preaching mavsfan 03-28-02 11  RE: The Significance of Raiding the... JohnMc 03-29-02 12    RE: The Significance of Raiding the... Blueville 03-29-02 13        RE: The Significance of Raiding the... JohnMc 03-29-02 14

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Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-25-02, 04:41 PM (EST) 1. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" You and Loree have brought up some interesting arguments on this idea (hers are on the E5 title thread). I'm going to throw out some more fuel for the fire. You assume that they wouldn't want to have their camp raided. Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a loss for them to have some of their stuff taken. The worker bees could easily rebuild, so they really wouldn't be losing all that much. And once the camps merged, they'd get the stuff back. After reading an article about Gabe in this weekend's paper, I get the feeling that he wouldn't enjoy taking even more from the weaker tribe. I posted this link on another thread, but I'm going to reference a different part of the article here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sunday/features/day/Story/1107138p-1105423c.html Several families moved to the area about the same time as the Cades, so the Cade children grew up as part of a large --for Celo, anyway-- group of kids. They were taught to respect the environment, invest in strengthening community and scrutinize the means toward any end for fairness and morality, Marilyn Cade said. "Gabriel is very into process, how you do something," she said. "The way you do something is talked about a lot in Celo and if you watch, you can see that process to him is in some ways more important than the show." ... His parents watch "Survivor" with mixed emotions. Gabriel's tribe has been invincible in the challenges that determine which team gets a treat or must vote someone off. Gabriel is safe, but the other tribe's suffering just isn't the kind of spectacle that folks in Celo enjoy. What do they gain if they throw the raid? Well, the grateful little Maraamu, who are little risk in individual immunity challenges, will be open to reestablishing alliances with their original buddies post-merge. The one flaw in this is that unless the treemail makes it obvious what the reward would be, there's little chance to discuss a strategy and decide whether or not to throw it. Still, it could be what John and Gabe's discussion is really about...   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-25-02, 04:46 PM (EST) 2. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" I also posted about this in the E5 Title thread, but I'll reiterate some of it here. IF (and it's a big IF) MB planned this beforehand, as he and JP have stated, then this was planned to do pretty much what you said: to cause the new tribes to bond, and hopefully create a "new" rivalry between the "new" tribes. If MB didn't plan this beforehand, then the likely reason is to keep Rotu from throwing challenges. I know, I know, it's an RC not an IC, but they still might find reason to throw it. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 03-25-02, 05:19 PM (EST) 3. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" Are there rules? What we don't see in the previews, is JP explaining the rules if any. Isn't anyone wondering if there will be guidelines? Aside from the obvious food and tools (pots/pans/machete, etc.), if MB/JP doesn't stipulate guidelines, what is to prevent the raiding tribe from: - taking the other tribes water, dumping on their fire, then taking the water jugs? - taking personal belongings? Let's say the losing tribe is Maraamu, aside from having a difficult time opening coconuts, they could still have fruit. But if the have to start making fire again, that could prove difficult. Then again, if they having nothing to gather and boil water, it seems that even if they win the IC, they'd have to merge. It would be difficult for them to survive without what little additional clothing they have and no potable water.   Top

cowboyroo 590 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 03-25-02, 06:05 PM (EST) 4. "Another possibilty" Say Rotu feels sorry for the new Maraamu tribe being so much more obviously weak for a physical type challenge and outnumbered, so they opt to lose the RC on purpose. They have 8 people. What could it hurt to lose a few things? Kinda like when an adult plays a game with a kid and lets them win to build their spirits. Say Rotu does this and Maraamu goes haywire when they raid the camp and takes way more thought possible, and leaves it in shambles through getting caught up in the moment. They may even be so caught up in the victory that they failed to see it was given to them... This could also be the end of innocence...   Top

sonrod 25 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 03-25-02, 11:02 PM (EST) 5. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" As far as the raiding tribe taking the pots,pans,water,tools,etc. If this is a real raiding tribe, if you're the Maramuu tribe, why not take a few members of Rotu. Maybe take Gabe and John. (If that were to happen perhaps that is where Gabe and John are discussing bringing the original Rotu alliance together or staying with their new tribe after having been "carried off" to the Maramumu tribe. Maybe anything goes, winning tribes have the option of taking a player or two.   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-26-02, 02:10 AM (EST) 6. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" i've said it before, but i'll say it again- IF Maraamu wins, and IF they are allowed to take a hostage, it would make MUCH more sense to take Rob or Sean. It weakens the ex-Maraamu in new-Rotu, and gives Maraamu another sacrificial victim should they lose another IC. by taking Gabe or John, they only weaken old-Rotu's strength in new-Rotu by making it possible for one ex-Rotu to betray the tribe and side with the ex-Moomoos, and, should they lose again, they will be forced either to sacrifice one of their own, or the only likeable Moomoo, Gina. but I'm not sure they would think that far ahead in the heat of the moment   Top

jkokoj 4389 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 03-26-02, 09:48 AM (EST) 7. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" The raiding of the camp episode is going to be good. There will be hurt feelings no matter which tribe wins this RC. Even if personal possessions are not part of the reward taking food and the knifes and even the magnifying glass would be a devestating loss. MB is a sneaky devil and knows that it will be difficult for feelings not to get hurt, especially the emotionally charged Kathy.   Top

pisspoorprotoplasm 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 03-27-02, 05:14 PM (EST) 8. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" I was just over at one of the other Spoiler boards and there was mention made of Sean and Kathy getting into an argument during a Rotu raid of the Maraamu camp, specifically involving some sort of melon. Could this be the "innocent comment" that causes all the friction? Also, some mention has been made of Gabe's lip injury...Is it a stretch for him and Sean to get into a fight, due to the ill feelings after the raid? Just some thoughts...   Top

weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-27-02, 05:40 PM (EST) 9. "rules" There would be no chance of Gabe and Sean getting in a fight and remaining on the show from what I understand. I believe it is expressly stated in the rules that they can cause no intentional harm to eachother. Guess that would explain a Gabe boot...which is what some speculate, but I couldn't buy their logic. Anyway, I think it was a former Survivor contestant who revealed the rule. I think someone asked the contestant in a chat about almost hitting someone or such & the contestant explained why he never could've done such a thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.   Top

JeffGator 1401 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 03-28-02, 02:25 AM (EST) 10. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" Wow nightscribe, I'm impressed. I definitely agree with what you said about why it's titled the end of innocence. I have a feeling that it's going to anger whatever tribe is ransacked and that the tribe will feel that the other has gone too far. I think that this may alienate Neleh and Paschal and when the 2 tribes merge, they will be the first 2 voted off. ______________________________________________________________ 19 year old Student at the University of Florida--Go Gators, Go Gina, and Go Gary and Dave! ______________________________________________________________ "I may be alot of things, but I ain't no Hershey Bar."   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 03-28-02, 12:36 PM (EST) 11. "No one likes preaching" Thanks for this thread NightScribe. - I think this thread is Excellent proof that using logic to spoil the show can work. Gabe strikes me as having a wide eyed innocence about him. The article listed by another poster on this thread tells me Gabe grew up in a community that teaches sensitivity for other people, particularly weaker people. When Maraamu raids Rotu I could easily see Gabe refusing to participate, and even preaching/lecturing to the other Maraamu that what they are doing is just plain wrong. I think one lesson we've learned from prior SURVIVORS is that when someone starts lecturing their fellow tribe members, they are soon shown the exit. I know there is talk on another thread that Gabe leaves this week. I voted for Rob in part because I could not figure out a rational as to what would cause Gabes boot. Your thread gives me the perfect rational for Gabes leaving tonight. As another poster mentioned in this thread, the promo says it's the end of innocence for BOTH tribes. I would kind of like to change my vote from Rob to Gabe for this week, and make Rob my back up pick.   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 03-29-02, 11:20 AM (EST) 12. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" The significance: Moomoo definitely was able to thrive as a result of winning the RC. The biggest thing they won was the ability to win IC and stay alive for 3 more days. (Interesting note: Kathy/Neleh/Paschal have won all but 1 challenge, more than anyone else so far. Does this give them a psychological edge, especially since they like their campground better now?) This also served to solidify the alliances. New Moomoo is THE Moomoo tribe. These 4 could make it to F4 if they play their cards right. It also is what created the New Rotu alliance of John/Robert/Tammy/Zoe. These 4 could also make it to F4 if they take Sean/Rob/Vee with them. Sean/Rob/Vee are the swing votes now. Their best bet is to align w/NM since we know that NR will Pagong the OM. Of course, there has been a lot of STUPID game playing in this installment. Sarah and Gabe should go down as the most clueless gameplayers so far. Who knows what else can happen? Will someone pull a Brandon this season and defect only to be voted off in 3 days?   Top

Blueville 115 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-29-02, 11:53 AM (EST) 13. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" JohnMc, I would submit that John, Tammy, Robert, and possibly Zoe were already an alliance, even before the switch. See my thread titled Origianl Rotu Alliances appear to be..... Blue   Top

JohnMc 2679 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 03-29-02, 01:02 PM (EST) 14. "RE: The Significance of Raiding the Camp" I think the switch happened early enough in this game that the original alliance that were formed had to be re-formed. Remember in S3 where it was an even 3-3 switch? Silas was destined for the boot on his team because the other 2 could ally with New Boran. Lindsay was the next because she had prior votes. Boran was tight, even with the swap, and they could use this to their advantage. This time the switch is 3 days earlier. Gina really likes the people that she's with. She is basically Frank/Teresa in getting Sarah booted. The remaining 4 NM are definitely a tight alliance. Also, the Rotu alliance formed in ep5, or re-formed if you believe that the had an alliance before. Zoe may be disappointed, but she'll get over it. She has an alliance now. The NR and NM alliance will be fighting for control at the merge. The swings will be the OM members. Do they align w/their current tribe or their former tribe??? (I believe that V can go either way, and she's smart enough to "avoid the drama.")   Top

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