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bergdogg 380 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 03-22-02, 01:59 AM (EST) "Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" When I was at work today, me and some friends were discussing last nights episode. My friends didn't know of Zoe real well, and I said to them that a lot of our posters talk about why she hasn't made much of an impact on the show yet. Anywho, it got me thinking about everything we have been discussing on our board. Why is Zoe so silent. Then it came to me: Maybe MB is saving her for a greater purpose. But what could that purpose be? Is she like Tina, and what came to be known as the "Dog that didn't bark" spoiler? Or is it something else. Then, it hit me again: THE VILLIAN!! EPMB has been quoted to saying that thier is a villian in this series, but nobody seems to live up to Survivor's villianous role as of yet. We have the Ambiguously lazy duo, but they aren't very threatening, thus their not very high on the villianous pedestal. So is Zoe being hidden until after the merge, where MB will show us our villian late enough in the game for her to take control of it and make a serious push at the top spot?? Opinions pleeze??   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... smokedog 03-22-02 1  RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... smiley 03-22-02 2    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... hrc2u 03-22-02 3        RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... SurvivorBlows 03-22-02 7  RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... MikeD 03-22-02 4    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... Meemo 03-22-02 5    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... Tatina 03-22-02 6        RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... MikeD 03-22-02 8            RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... Loree 03-22-02 9  RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... PepeLePew13 03-23-02 10    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... Loree 03-23-02 11    Zoe?! Pshaw. George Tirebiter 03-23-02 13  Tammy probably not the villain, Joh... Seyz 03-23-02 12    RE: Tammy probably not the villain,... I_AM_HE 03-23-02 15    RE: Tammy probably not the villain,... ItzLisa 03-24-02 17  RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... ivoryElephant 03-23-02 14    RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... KLicK 03-24-02 16        RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Vil... hrc2u 03-24-02 18  Let's examine editing patterns plea... NightScribe 03-24-02 19    RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted a... Dalton 03-24-02 20        RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted a... Kokoro 03-24-02 21        RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted a... dabo 03-24-02 22            RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted a... managerr 03-25-02 23

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smokedog 1885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 03-22-02, 03:18 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" The reason MB 'hides' some of the talent is usually because since they stay in the game a while, he has plenty of time to tell their 'story'. For example, we don't know a heck of a lot about Zoe, Tammy, Paschal, etc. You can conclude that they last for quite a while. Whereas characters such as Sarah and Hunter have had prominent camera time because they are only on the show for a short period of time. We will be seeing a LOT of Rotu in the later episodes. He will make exceptions if the character is particularly entertaining or charismatic, such as S1 Rudy and S3 Lex. Sometimes a player is boring like S2 Nick and lasts fairly long, so there are variations on this theme. As far as Zoe being the 'evil one'? Well, it might be my imagination, but she does look a little bit like a witch...   Top

smiley 2009 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 03-22-02, 08:06 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I don't think she will turn out to be the villian. The way Zoe has been edited has been interesting. We've heard alot about Zoe indirectly without hearing her speak (though I still wonder why MB hasn't shown her). It's been indicated that she is a strong group supporter and also someone who is a comforter (like in Sarah's chat when she says Neleh and Zoe helped her through her barfing saga). So far, everyone seems to be fond of her.   Top

hrc2u 146 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-22-02, 10:43 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" LAST EDITED ON 03-22-02 AT 04:36 PM (EST) LAST EDITED ON 03-22-02 AT 10:43 AM (EST) Edited to say, "Boy, am I losing it. The article was about Tammy not Zoe. So please disregard." Last night I was at I think Surviivor.com and they have articles archived. I found one that interviewed her (Tammy)boyfriend. He didn't say much, but did mention that, Villians are always more interesting and she does write about them quite a bit. And just maybe she could be Villianous. Thought I would throw that out there to think about. Article came out in Feb. before the season showcased, on television. hrc2u   Top

SurvivorBlows 15230 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-22-02, 02:13 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" >I found one that interviewed her boyfriend. ... >she does write about them quite a bit. I think you're confusing Zoe with Tammy. As far as I know, we've seen no mention of Zoe having a boyfriend, plus TAMMY is the crime reporter, ZOE is the lobsterwoman. -SB   Top

MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 03-22-02, 11:54 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" We can only hope that she turns evil because the way they are editing her currently, she is BOOOORRRRRRRIIIINNNNNGGGGGGGG.   Top

Meemo 3519 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-22-02, 12:34 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I get the feeling that she isn't getting much airtime because she is somewhat introverted. I don't know if she fooled them in the selection process, but they can't very well show much if she isn't saying much. There is prospect that she could turn out to be the villain, but I think that Rob (as mentally incapacitated as he is) is supposed to be fullfilling that role. We can be sure that the tribe will keep him around at least one weak longer than Sean.   Top

Tatina 112 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-22-02, 12:35 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I think that the way Zoe is edited now makes her extremely interesting. She doesn't necessarely have to turn villianous, but she will definitily be a key player in this game. In fact, if we are to believe some of the comments by other survivors she is definitely taking Tina's role here (well, someone could argue Tina was villianous in her own sweet Southern way). She seems to be there for them, even the ones that aren't aligned with her (I think that the fact we did finally get a Rotu, Robert, to speak of strategy or the lack of it means he hasn't been included to the talks that have very likely taken place in Rotu camp. I also think, for many reasons, that Zoe has been included). I'd say she is a person nobody would like to sit next to at the F2, but probably have to.   Top

MikeD 344 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 03-22-02, 02:15 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I dont even know what her voice sounds like!!!!   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-22-02, 03:49 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" If she disappeared into the jungle would we even notice?   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-23-02, 01:53 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I believe that TAMMY is the one setting up to be the villain of the show -- we've seen her serving Sean and Rob and enduring their idiotic comments, and we've seen her standing behind these two in the background shooting daggers with her eyes. It would make perfect sense if Tammy then orchestrates whatever happens in the next episode or two and gets Sean and Rob booted and then she does more and more after that to be edited as a villain. Like someone else mentioned on this thresd, Tammy is a crime reporter so she understands the mind of a villain and there's that hint from her boyfriend/fiance/whatever about the villain comment. As I pointed out long before the show started, she's got that look in her eyes that suggests she's a bit nuts or something.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-23-02, 02:34 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" Well if Tammy went on to doublecross one of her old Rotu tribemates I could see it. But I doubt most of the audience would see Tammy as a villian if she gets Rob and/or Sean booted. A villian is usually someone that we see doing wrong against players we like. Someone that causes the likeable players to be booted by deceiving the others. But we tend to cheer for the players that boot the players that behave like Sean and Rob. I just find it interesting that MB said there was a good villian and yet we are all still arguing or wondering who it is. To me that means nobody is a definite villian yet. Either MB is hiding what they have done to shock us or they haven't done anything bad yet.   Top

George Tirebiter 2982 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 03-23-02, 08:04 PM (EST) 13. "Zoe?! Pshaw." I've only read that Gabe and Tammy have potentially wicked sides that might prove interesting; Zoe has been portrayed as a well-liked mother and community leader, and I seriously doubt she would fit the bill of villain. To my eye, it seems that John is the one with the potential to evolve into THE villain we've been primed to expect. . . From the start, he was portrayed as desperate to come out on top, he battled Kathy for the provider spot in the tribe (with comical results), and we've already had a teaser of him arguing with Gabe over the direction Rotu goes, now that they have the Slacker Twins on board. My money's on him to become the Jackass We Love to Hate. . . GT When women go wrong, men go right after them.-Mae West    Top

Seyz 198 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-23-02, 06:58 PM (EST) 12. "Tammy probably not the villain, John and Neleh In an Alliance? Zoe seems like a Wildcard." I don't think Tammy will become the villain at all. I think she might play a part in kicking off Sean and Robert due to her comments in the last episode. "First Vote". She also said some things about Rotu being like a family and that it was a good thing. This doesn't sound like someone who will become a villain at all. She could become the villain in future episodes.. but that would be a 180 change in how she's presented right now. I also rewatched last episode.. and it seems like John and Neleh may be pretty close. I think that first scene they showed of John helping Neleh with her hair reflects a lot about their relationship. Neleh also had the "Thanks Babe" comment. You don't call someone babe unless you're close with them. What's more we've seen John and Neleh in numerous shots together.. in ICs and photos. Also John was the most vocal in cheering Neleh on in the food-reward. They were also together looking for food. It also seems like that when the "switch" occurred.. the first person Neleh looked up towards was John (they were standing next to each other. It would also explain why John is so concerned with getting Rotu back together. If he's close with Neleh and Kathy (which I really think he is.. because there was also the scene last episode where Kathy was praising John for his cooking skills and the sea urchin incident) it would totally make sense for John to be concerned with getting Rotu back together. This really leaves Gabriel.. I think Gabriel might end up to be the villain. Right now.. the villain would probably be the person that betrays the old Rotu. I don't see anyone doing that except Gabriel. Zoe's a good gal. She doesn't look like a villain to me at all. I think she's just staying low under the radar.   Top

I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-23-02, 11:30 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Tammy probably not the villain, John and Neleh In an Alliance? Zoe seems like a Wildcard." Lets also consider the fact that no one on Rotu has been to TC, and so they don't know each other's hand writing...under these circumstances, it would be very easy for a Rotu to side with the slackers and evict an old Rotu, especially if they feel their original Rotu alliance is the smaller/weaker one. No one could know who voted against them then. that person could then throw another challenge and further weaken the opposing Rotu alliance, or side back with the other three Rotus, having done the damage already... I don't think its likely, but possible. And I think Tammy is a prime candidate. Despite her comments about booting Sean and Rob, she was definitely the least annoyed by them, and the least upset to see Paschal, Kathy, and Neleh go. John or Gabe might as well, in order to take out their rival. Robert and Zoe I see as less likely to do this, but perhaps their lack of screen-time is masking some potential villiany. Zoe, though, as a fishing boat captain, I think would be too intolerant of slackers to permit herself to vote against someone else. It would take two people to switch sides on this vote to avoid a deadlock, but even a tie would evict an old Rotu if they lose the tiebreak.   Top

ItzLisa 3350 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-24-02, 08:42 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Tammy probably not the villain, John and Neleh In an Alliance? Zoe seems like a Wildcard." LAST EDITED ON 03-24-02 AT 08:58 AM (EST) >This really leaves Gabriel.. I think Gabriel might end up to be the villain. Right now.. the villain would probably be the person that betrays the old Rotu. I don't see anyone doing that except Gabriel. *** Go back and watch episodes 1, 2, 3 and 4. Pay careful attention to everytime Gabriel opens his mouth. Generally, the only things he says in his camera confessionals is how happy he is that everyone gets along so well, how he loves the great vibe within the tribe, how they get stronger and stronger due to their good will and kindness towards each other, etc. It was Gabriel who dubbed Rotu "The Love Tribe". The only bad thing he has to say about anyone on Rotu was episode 2, about Kathy, and his complaint was - guess what? - that she doesn't try to bond with the rest of the tribe like the rest of them do! Are you sure this is the guy you see betraying the rest of the tribe? Maybe John would, maybe Robert, but I truly don't see that coming from Gabe. Sure, if it did happen, it would make for great television, because who would see that coming? But I truly doubt it. Fact is, we've been told there's going to be a "villian" this season, and we've already got two - Rob and Sean! That's not to say that an original Rotu couldn't pull a surprise out of the hat, but this S4 has already got two of the most nauseating, disgusting excuses for human beings, entertaining as they may be, that this show has ever seen. We've got two, along with the now disposed dim-witted tramp - that sort of makes three in one show. I mean, I think the villian role has been a bit done to death on this edition, actually! **************************************** Visit BlossomArt's Ebay Page! "This is a check made out to you, the Beatles, for $3,000 - you divide it up any way you want. If you want to give Ringo less, it's up to you." (SNL's Lorne Michaels, April 1976)   Top

ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 03-23-02, 09:18 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" I watched a interview of her on the cbs site and she didn't come across on camera very well. I think the reason she doesn't get much face time is because she isn't camera savvy. "I know I don't know you, and you're probably not what you seem, but I sure would like to find out so why don't you climb down of that TV screen" Gina Crews, the Sole Survivor!   Top

KLicK 316 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 03-24-02, 06:29 AM (EST) 16. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" Isn't it possible, that as a first ever in Survivor, someone figures out that their best strategy is to jump from the back-end of the "strong" alliance to form a new one? Couldn't that be the instinctive crime reporter, Tammy? It takes 5 people to control the game early, but ultimately a three-some is what is essential. If Tammy (&John?) feel like they are #4 and #5 (or worse #6 and #7) in the Rotu alliance would they think to use the knuckleheads to oust their competition? Vote with the knuckleheads against Gabe. If necessary, vote with them again against Zoe or if possible switch back and vote off Sean to keep the upperhand. When the merge comes, pull Neleh, Paschal and Kathy (and or Gina) back into your alliance to get rid of the knuckleheads. It's risky for sure -- but if Tammy and John want to WIN their best chance is to get rid of their biggest competition BEFORE they end up on the jury.   Top

hrc2u 146 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 03-24-02, 12:07 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Zoe: silent now, but is she Villianous later???" LAST EDITED ON 03-24-02 AT 12:16 PM (EST) Wouldn't a villian be deceitful? Imagine that for a moment the Tammy and John lead Rob and Sean on to believe that they are in an alliance to them. They could do this by staging a view arugments among other Rotu's to give crediablity to their change of heart. Perhap's the argument with Gabe is to make Rob and Sean think that there are problems in the "love" tribe. Or, Perhaps even at the 1st TC they vote of Gabe, who's their strongest opposition. Then turn around and work with the other's to get rid of Rob and Sean, having gotten rid of Gabe who appear to speak for the tribe. Either John or Tammy now leads the tribe, and at the merge will take the former Rotu's back into the pack. I think we are at a key point with allainces as some has pointed out. You need to line your ducks up now to work to get to the finish. I think we will see more double agents if you will in this next episode. I really hope so as it would make for more interesting television. hrc2u   Top

NightScribe 761 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 03-24-02, 12:39 PM (EST) 19. "Let's examine editing patterns please" I agree that Zoe's story has yet to be told, that we haven't seen much about her, but probably will in the future. However, I don't think this means she's S4's one great villain. Let's look at what slim footage we have seen so far. episode 1. Zoe is shown rallying Rotu while they paddle to shore. Her one confessional in this episode is about "getting a rowing motion like on old whalers". That's about all we saw of her. Episode 2. She performs well in the "Do or Dive", is the first to step forward during Fafaru challenge. While Neleh is struggling in the tie breaker, Zoe can be heard encouraging her "You're so much tougher than he is", we hear from the background. When Neleh wins, it's Zoe who rushes toward her, picks her up and hugs her. No confessional in episode two. Episode 3. Zoe is holding Robert's hand during his jungle surgery, and compliments John on his skill. "Good job butcher" she says. Then in her only confessional of the episode, she comments on Gabe's idea for building the raft con-tiki style. She has a cute smile on her face while talking. She's also shown as a strong competitor during the raft race. Episode 4. Zoe is the first person to turn over her disk during the "activity". The look on her face is priceless. At first it's obvious she's pissed, but then she gets another look, like "Okay, I got your number Jiffy". As she walks to the mat; it's clear that she is very concerned about how the tribes will reshuffle. She's glad when her teammates start to come over, but also welcoming to Vee, Rob, and Sean. There's an interesting smile and wink she gives when Pappy goes over to the Moos. Again, she's shown as a strong, steady tribe member both in camp and in challenges. No one has said a bad word about Zoe. She hasn't been shown pairing up with anyone OR going off by herself. She's a team player, competent in all she does. She is also the only tribe member not shown dissing Kathy. She's a huge cheerleader for her teammates and is just as huggy as the rest of the Love Tribe. In all of this, I cannot find a single villainous characteristic. If there was one great villain of the show, the editing would have already begun on that person. I'm convinced after last episode that we're talking about Rob here. Forget the "mastermind" stuff -- that's just part of the game, but the slurs against EVERY member of Rotu are totally unnecessary and arbitrary. He's our villain, and he'll get no "character redemption" from MB. Zoe will be important later on, but only after this silly struggle for the Alpha Male power is over. Those jackasses are so concerned with power and leadership that they don't realize who's really in control there.   Top

Dalton 1271 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 03-24-02, 08:44 PM (EST) 20. "RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted above....." I've read all 19 replies in this thread and was going to contribute but NightScribe said it all for me!!! This S-4 season has its share of villains and some (or one) of them may even make it to the Jury after the next three people are booted out. ZOE has been consistantly friendly to everyone without trying too hard and MB has yet to show us her personality. ZOE is saving herself for when it really counts....the final five; and in the meantime, who has an "excuse" to vote against her...if they even get the chance? If it turns out that ZOE will be called "villainous" --- it will only be because she has made friends with her original Rotu team and because she is much stronger than people suspected. In the individual IC's, after the merge, look out for Zoe to give it her all and be among the best. Dalton   Top

Kokoro 3899 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 03-24-02, 11:38 PM (EST) 21. "RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted above....." <<This S-4 season has its share of villains>> Exactly....If Rob or Sean make the jury that just could be our main villain. I mean, look at S2 - Jerri gets booted and it becomes the battle of the nice people. Sure, they were still picking off the minority team and people didn't exactly love that Colby won all the challenges but the closest thing to a villain was Keith being an idiot. ---------------------------------------- Now let us never speak of S3 again.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-24-02, 11:51 PM (EST) 22. "RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted above....." Thanks, Scribe and Dalton, for putting some much needed perspective on the Zoe question. From what came out about Zoe prior to the first episode, she seems like someone who is perfectly suited to the game, a very resourceful and tough individual. Anyway, as things currently stand, the villain is Rob, and he may well go far in the game. Aside from the losing streak that went on in Original Maraamu (and Rob totally blew two of the immunity challenges for the tribe, curious), he was the one who manipulated the tribal dynamics to his own advantage. And when the switch happened, rather than just accept that he was doomed, he began looking for ways to manipulate the situation to his own advantage. While his assessments of his new tribemates were crude (though entertaining), they showed where his strategy lay. As well, he monopolized Sean's time as much as possible (just had he had done Sarah in Original Maraamu, but that had a different dynamic) which resulted in Sean's "vote me off" outburst to Gabe; in my opinion Rob pushed Sean's buttons in order to place his ally ahead of himself in the boot order, thus buying himself more time. Should he make it to the individual challenges, look for Rob to give everything he has to winning immunity whatever it takes, while working the other players as much as he can. Rob is credited as being a construction worker, but from his bio we know he has a degree in psychology, likes to play head games, and hopes to become a doctor someday: ie Rob is to a real construction guy the way Rodger (the banker) was to your typical dirt farmer. (And, personally, I think Rob would be better off aspiring to be a lawyer; hope none of you legal types take exception to that.) Cap'n Zoe Just YoHoHoee!   Top

managerr 1959 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 03-25-02, 11:04 AM (EST) 23. "RE: DITTO what NightScribe posted above....." How would you feel if you were reading "Snow White", and all of a sudden, the real villain is revealed to be one of the 7 Dwarves and not the Wicked Stepmother? (With no setup whatsoever) If Zoe suddenly becomes a villain, that would be one of the worst editing/storyline jobs of all time. You don't just introduce a villain without no setup like that. In S3, Lex turned out to be the "post-merge" villain, but there was definitely a lot of setup. We saw his conflicts with Kelly and Clarence, his attempts to build an alliance and he was always strategizing in confessionals. We've had none of that with Zoe. Only John and Kathy, and to a lesser extent Gabe and Tammy appear to be strategizing in Rotu. (That we're shown)   Top

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