Email this topic to a friend Printer-friendly version of this topic Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)		Archived thread - Read only  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Conferences Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)
Original message

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-04-02, 07:27 AM (EST) "Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" LAST EDITED ON 03-04-02 AT 07:33 AM (EST) Greetings. I don’t intend to bother y’all very much with my presence, so here is my sole contribution to your spoiling literature. It worked fairly well for me in S-III. Background: I call it the “Hollow” theory after a book by Agatha Christie, titled “The Hollow.” If you haven’t read it and want to, don’t read this as I’m about to give away the plot. In the book, detective Hercule Poirot comes upon a scene: a scatterbrained woman is standing next to a swimming pool with a smoking gun in her hand. In the pool, at the bottom, is her abusive husband, who has been shot to death. Looks simple, right? Well, there was no shortage of suspects all willing to suggest that they themselves had done it and that the scatterbrained woman was innocent and set up. Poirot followed many clues but eventually solved the problem by realizing that all the clues led AWAY from the truth. Relative to Survivor: Mark Burnett (“M.B.”) has two audiences: 1) The “normal” viewing audience and 2) spoilers and bashers, such as yourselves. MB goals are to entertain and pleasantly surprise the first group, and to absolutely deceive the second group to the best of his ability. He doesn’t “lie” to us, and the “Outfrontgirl Theory” was and is a real good one, but MB will try hard to make us go in a certain direction that leads AWAY from the truth. To this end, he edits his shows in certain ways which will cause the “normal” audience to be surprised by something new and unexpected, and cause the “spoiler” audience to gnash their teeth in dismay. A prime example of this was practically forcing the “all-female alliance” down our throats in S-III. Another example was how Frank was featured on one show. This board (and several others), felt for sure that Frank was gone the next show, and voted accordingly. But on the next show, Frank was virtually unseen and was not voted out for another episode. Therefore, when watching Survivor, I take into consideration that MB is trying to lead us AWAY from the truth. We may have seen some examples of it in Ep. 1: Pushing the romance so hard, the conflict between John and Kathy. Was it genuine? Or was it intended to lead us AWAY? Some of it was genuine, but it’s up to us to pick the wheat from the chaff and give MB the spoiling he so richly deserves. I have seen some on this board make assumptions based on what MB showed us (or didn't show us). Please do not be misled or make assumptions based solely on what MB shows us. Take him with BIG grains of rock salt. And Agatha Christie’s story? Poirot realized that all the clues led him AWAY from the truth and always brought himself back to the truth. The woman did it. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... Bebo 03-04-02 1    RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... SurvivinDawg 03-04-02 2  RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... sleeeve 03-04-02 3  RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... Outfrontgirl 03-04-02 4    RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... SurvivinDawg 03-05-02 5        RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... Outfrontgirl 03-05-02 6            Sig pic resizing tool Outfrontgirl 03-05-02 7                RE: Sig pic resizing tool SurvivinDawg 03-05-02 8  RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... SherpaDave 03-06-02 9    RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... SurvivinDawg 03-06-02 10        RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... PsychoDoc 04-04-02 11            RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Li... SurvivinDawg 04-04-02 12

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Messages in this topic

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-04-02, 03:49 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" LAST EDITED ON 03-04-02 AT 03:50 PM (EST) True, MB loves misdirection and uses it to the hilt. But...he finally has a selling point to the show that was missing in the prior versions -- SEX. All he's had in the past was the did they/didn't they with Colleen and Greg in S1, and the Jerri lust for Colby in S2. But now he's got out in the open, real plot point booty that he can use to try to get people away from Friends and salivating over his show again. He's going to use it. I don't think it's misdirection -- I think it's a ratings grabber. It's the same reason he keeps showing Sarah in a bikini each and every time possible. Some things are shown because they matter to the game, while others are shown to grab viewers. <insert joke about what the male viewers want to grab HERE>   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-04-02, 04:59 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" My point exactly. MB can use the "Romancing the Stonehead (i.e. Rob)" angle to lead us AWAY from the truth. Another example: The questions on the See-BS site, and the teasers for next week, while valid and true, are attempts to lead us AWAY from the truth. Prime example last year was the question "Who will go first?" (or was it "Who will last the longest?") and the choices were Lex, Brandon, and Tom, leading you to think one of those would be next. Turns out that was the week FRANK was waxed. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

sleeeve 3456 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 03-04-02, 08:19 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" >Greetings. I don’t intend to >bother y’all very much with >my presence With excellent posts like this, "bother" isn't the word I'd use at all. Here's hoping that you'll grace us with your presence on spoilers a little more often You never know what might be up my sleeeve...   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-04-02, 10:29 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" LAST EDITED ON 03-04-02 AT 10:39 PM (EST) Dawg, that was beautifully explained and I agree with you 100%. I too am a big Agatha Christie fan. I really like the way you laid out this theory with such clarity. On one hand, we should always expect that something major may happen five minutes into the next episode of which MB has given us no clue. The show may open with some brand new conflict or problem and the theme of the evening becomes clear, but then it's too late for the Spoilers. As you say, we are all gnashing our teeth. Example: Jessie in Ep 2 of S3. Until we saw her all dehydrated and sick at the opening of Ep 2, who knew she was the new weakest link at Boran? How could we have known? Had any conflict been shown with Jessie? There was none. For all we know, something similar happens in Ep 2 this week and all the predictable boots get to last another week. On the other hand, you give us this perfect example of another classic MB misdirection with the Christie suspect who originally appeared to be the obvious suspect, and in fact did it. I don't remember who came up with this last season, but I remember discussing the idea prior to the Frank boot: sometimes the bootee is in fact obvious and makes the most sense from the previous show, and Burnett cannot hide that logic in the prior show because it's integral to the story. The best misdirection is then to put the person in our faces as the likely bootee. Burnett knows that Spoilers see red herrings everywhere, and will miss an obvious boot because it's too obvious. Cases in point are Kimmi, Frank (when his time finally came), and notably Linda from last season. The promo said one of Samburu lost it, and we had the footage of Linda doing a weird ritual and saying "Thank You," and suddenly it became too easy. Many did call that boot, but others were looking for something more subtle. The task is to figure out from week to week which Agatha Christie we are dealing with--the one with the bootee smack in front of our eyes, or the one from whom our eyes were being averted by a bunch of promo misdirection. If someone can please tell me how to do that... Anyway, I'm glad you're back Dawg! Thanks for the insights and I hope you keep 'em coming. Edited to fix this and that... "the fascination of what's difficult..."--W.B. Yeats   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-05-02, 12:24 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" LAST EDITED ON 03-05-02 AT 12:28 PM (EST) Exactly what you said, OFG. Of course, other spoiler information is very important, also. To use one of your examples: I actually missed the Linda vote because some important spoiler info came to my attention after I'd voted (on another board). I thought Samburro was going to win the IC, and what I thought was the IC was really the RC (and Samburro did win that, if memory serves correctly). I saw the correct info on this AFTER I'd voted; otherwise, I would've made the correct choice. Another thing that I didn't really say in the original thread up top: Much of what MB shows us that we think MIGHT be important and lead to something turns out to be nothing. Remember Boran climbing to the top of that mountain? Oh, the speculation that followed that! It was speculated that it was an RC reward, it was speculated that someone was there or not there in the shadows, etc. Turned out that it was something Boran just did (or was asked to do by MB & Co.?), it was just a pretty vista shot, it was 30 seconds of TV time, and it really amounted to NOTHING of importance. Anyway, my only point is that we should not allow ourselves to be led astray by what we see. A great example is Patricia and the machete tree. We saw ONE image of her setting the tree as the machete location. It APPEARS that she's being bossy, taking control, etc., and this might get her in trouble... it might be important, but it might be that it turns out to be very much nothing. We need more spoiler info!!! P.S. OFG, I did read the posts around here for S-III, and your analysis was some of the best and often the most accurate (if not the ONLY accurate) information. I hope you'll be keeping up the good work for S-IV. I've got to find a way to reduce the size of this thing: *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-05-02, 01:56 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" Dawg, thank you for your kind words! Much appreciated. I hope to be around, but things are pretty busy IRL, more than last season. Your example of the Tricia "bossy" promo is a good one. Similarly, before the show started we had one pic of Tricia "sitting on her ass" with the palm fronds, and some thought that indicated "lazy" and out of there. Later we saw pics in which several of the others were shown sitting down and working on the palm fronds--a tribal project, not a sign of sloth. Yet another approach to spoiling by which one can counteract misdirection would be the "Dalton" approach--pay no attention to the smoke and mirrors and apply common sense. One way of voting that I think hardly ever works is to vote for the person WE (or anyone) want to see booted because we can't stand them. Dislike of the player is almost always a product of the editing, and when we fall for it we are letting MB manipulate our emotions. The very fact that he is bothering to edit someone as a villain or a jerk or bitch probably means they will be around long enough to play out their role, so it's no use jumping on their boot bandwagon the first week we feel like we can't stand them any more... As you say, there are many factors to consider on any boot, which is why I think out SOTS thread is so valuable. It brings all the evidence for any one week together for consideration.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-05-02, 01:58 PM (EST) 7. "Sig pic resizing tool" Dawg,You mentioned your sig pic size. For you and anyone else who wants to resize-- Boomerang sent me this url for downloading a pic resizer called Irfanview. It's simple to use even if one isn't real savvy with graphics. You can just tell it to resize the pic to 60 pixels in height, the standard sleeeve mentions in his guidelinge post. http://quantum.tucows.com/index.html this is your pic at that size, but it loses a lot I'm afraid. The program also allows one to crop the pic and change contrast etc., which might help with making the main parts of your subject bigger and clearer...   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-05-02, 02:10 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Sig pic resizing tool" Thanks for the URL and the info. Yes, that pic doesn't do well when it gets really small... It'll just have to remain big and be used sparingly, I guess. Here's one I did successfully downsize. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

SherpaDave 8326 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-02, 05:56 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" I agree with a ton of what you wrote in this post, Dawg, but there is a bit of it that I disagree with. I'll paste the relevant bit here and then explain my logic. Relative to Survivor: Mark Burnett (“M.B.”) has two audiences: 1) The “normal” viewing audience and 2) spoilers and bashers, such as yourselves. MB goals are to entertain and pleasantly surprise the first group, and to absolutely deceive the second group to the best of his ability. I disagree that he always wants to deceive us and make us gnash our teeth. Here's my logic in that. Spoilers are, in almost every way, the biggest fans of his show. We are to Survivor, pathetic as it sounds, as Trekkies who attend conventions are to Mr. Roddenberry's creation. While that might make us freaks in MB's worldview (and probably in most people's wordlview), it makes us valuable freaks. We are likely to discuss Survivor more than just about anyone else who watches the show. Spoilers make lots of free publicity for MB. So... It's important for MB to keep us watching, to keep us talking about the show, to stoke our silly religious fervor. And to do that, he has to entertain us. The best way to entertain us, of course, is to keep us on our toes. I think he's very aware of the spoiling crowd and our value to him. This, I believe, is why the shows typically get more and more difficult to spoil as the season progresses, in spite of the smaller pool of bootees to choose from. It's the "first taste is free" principle. The first one is always easy. That sets the hook. As the season progresses, there are others that aren't too touch, either. That keeps the hook set. Sometimes, it's even making new spoilers feel like they're smarter than the old ones and hooking them for the first time. As OFG said, it's telling the difference between the two that is difficult. I'd like to echo sleeeve's sentiment that I hope to see you around more on Spoilers this season. Hell, I hope to see me around more on Spoilers this season. Oh, and I took the liberty to play with your big pic in Photoshop a bit, working toward clarity while still meeting the 60 pixel height. Hope you like it. Song: Rob the Builder! Rob: Can I touch them? Song: Rob the Builder! Sarah: Yes, you can! Criminals From the Neck Up   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 03-06-02, 06:45 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" LAST EDITED ON 03-06-02 AT 07:07 AM (EST) Spoilers are, in almost every way, the biggest fans of his show. True, but in terms of numbers, we're almost nothing. According to this board's own report, we have (as of the time of this posting) 4287 active members. That's not very much in Nielson Ratings terms. MB does want to entertain us as well as the non-spoiler audience... but he wants us to be wrong, unsuccessful in correctly spoiling his show. After Survivor II, where info leaked like a sieve and some people got every guess right, MB shut it down tight for S-III, resulting in much less spoiler information coming out, and not nearly as many correct guesses. This is just my opinion, but I think MB declared war on spoilers for the S-III series, and delighted in attempting to mislead us at every opportunity. From the questions and clips on the See-BS Survivor website, to various news "leaks", MB has been spinning his web, trying to ensnare viewers, but not let them see what is coming from the middle of that web (harsh analogy, I know, but you get the idea). For example, rather than show challenge footage for a next show that might give away what they were, MB showed footage from previous shows. The flip side of that, to help you make your point Sherps, is that ratings dropped for S-III: it might have been the barren landscape and lack of water, but it might also have been the absolutely brutal lack of spoiler information and constant stream of disinformation that came out during that show. Another example is the week of the merge, in S-III. Several sources (but all See-BS sources) discussed Teresa: about her and Carl having to share sleeping quarters on safari, that she was a friend of Diane, that she was seen here and there, blah blah blah. Many people (meself included) voted for her to be booted. Ooops, she won immunity and Clarence (really the more obvious choice) was invited to take the walk of shame. Now please don't get me wrong: I am NOT saying that MB is "cheating" or deliberately doing "Gervase X" pics to muck with us on a weekly basis. He does tend to stick to certain themes, and develop his characters as the show runs along. I'm just saying that when he shows us a scene, don't jump to a conclusion or extrapolate something from it that isn't there. P.S. Thanks for the work on the pic. I'm also going to work on it myself and try to reduce it some without losing the visual impact of it. Let's see how this worked: *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

PsychoDoc 95 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 04-04-02, 08:23 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" Sorry, know this is an old thread, but since it is not locked and and I feel this great need to comment on this. >Spoilers are, in almost every way, >the biggest fans of his >show. > >True, but in terms of numbers, >we're almost nothing. According >to this board's own report, >we have (as of the >time of this posting) 4287 >active members. That's not >very much in Nielson Ratings >terms. Was thinking that we are not really "almost nothing." If you count the lurking addicts who just read the spoiler board, we might be a force to be reckoned with. I for one, stumbbled into this board shortly after S1 ended(I only watched the last episode), got hooked and have been lurking since S2. It took me 3 seasons to master enough courage to post up here this year. I'm quite sure there are many others out there who on account of the lively discussions here, are contributing to MB's ratings.   Top

SurvivinDawg 6816 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 04-04-02, 09:47 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Sole Contribution To Spoiler Literature" I wasn't trying to diminish our importance... quite the opposite as MB declared war on spoilers in S-III, and continues in S-IV... but I'm just pointing out that in numbers terms, we're a few thousand... whereas ONE ratings point is something like 900,000 homes or so... That first audience is MILLIONS of people, we are a VERY small percentage by comparison... that's all I was trying to say. *** Contradictions don't exist. If you are faced with a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong. -- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged   Top

Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Select another forum Lobby The Amazing Race Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--The Amazing Race Fanatics Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Basher Forum (Protected)   |--The Amazing Race Spoiler/Speculation Forum (Protected) American Idol Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--American Idol General Discussion Forum (Protected)   |--American Idol Individual Contestant and Judge Discussion Forum (Protected) Big Brother Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Big Brother Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Bashers Forum (Protected)   |--Big Brother Live Feed Updates And Spoilers (Protected) Survivor Message Board Forums (Conference)   |--Survivor Fanatic Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Basher Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Spoilers Forum (Protected)   |--Survivor Games Forum (Protected) Other Reality TV Shows (Conference)   |--The Bachelor / The Bachelorette Forum (Protected)   |--Dancing with the Stars Forum (Protected)   |--Other Reality TV Shows Forum (Protected) Off Topic (Conference)   |--The Help Forum (Protected)   |--Off-Topic Forum (Protected)