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Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-07-02, 12:25 PM (EST) "Where is Ethan's torch?" Sorry, I didn't realize I didn't post these caps/analysis here. This is built on Paratrooper's interesting torch scene speculation from Episode 11 (which had impact on Episode 12). If you saw his speculation at SurvivorFever, you know that in Episode 11, just after Tom had won the broken pot challenge, they showed a shot of the MotoMaji camp of the Survivors' torches leaning against their boma. In this shot, there were 5 torches visible and the Immunity Necklace was around Lex's torch. Since at that point there were still 6 players in the game and it made no sense that Tom's immunity win should be draped around Lex's torch, PT wondered if this might be a shot from Episode 12, indicating that Lex would win Immunity in that episode. And indeed that proved to be true (Lex did win). To see a shot of this scene, scroll down, it's in my later analysis. Then in the very beginning of Episode 12, we were shown another torch scene. It was a pan shot, and in this shot we saw only 3 torches and again Lex had the Immunity Necklace draped around his torch. Based on this shot, I did my homework and found several shots to try to prove whose torch was whose, and the end result is that Ethan's torch was not among the three remaining torches. Could this indicate that Ethan goes next? I dunno. Here's the cap analysis for you to digest anyway: I've added text to most of my caps in order to outline what I'm trying to point out. I only have a couple additional comments to add. First up, Ep 12's TC arrival and torch shots. I capped these so we could see who had what torch and what identifiable markings could be determined from these shots. Now some shots of Tom's torch to show you clearly which one is his. Now a couple less clear shots of Mama's & Ethan's torches, that make it sorta clear which one is whose. Now a shot from Ep 11, which Paratrooper already pointed out on SurvivorFever. I added some text to show what I see. The only thing I can add is that the torch I've ID'ed as Mama's has the names Dave, Molly and Tom on it. Prior to figuring out that Tom's torch was definitely the #5 torch, I'd thought the "Tom" name indicated this was Tom's torch. But now I know it's not. It's Mama's, but who the hell are Dave, Molly & Tom? In the next series of shots, you can also see the name Janice painted on this ball. None of these names are listed as relatives in Mama's bio, but beyond what CBS has spoon-fed us, I don't know diddly about about Kippy Grant. Now the pan-shot series that started this whole cap hunt. This scene was the very first from tonight's (Ep 12's episode), which would seem to indicate it occurred after Tom had won IC the day before. But the IN is on Lex's torch here too, and there are only 3 torches shown in all. There very well could be another torch to the far left and the camera just doesn't pan enough. But from this series, all I can see is that Tom's, Lex's & Mama's torches are accounted for. Ethan's is not. Take from that what you will.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Where is Ethan's torch? The Lopi 01-07-02 1  RE: Where is Ethan's torch? dangerkitty 01-07-02 2    RE: Where is Ethan's torch? MDSkinner 01-07-02 4        RE: Where is Ethan's torch? psileste 01-07-02 6            RE: Where is Ethan's torch? MDSkinner 01-07-02 7                RE: Where is Ethan's torch? wendyp 01-07-02 8  RE: Where is Ethan's torch? Ogachu 01-07-02 3    RE: Where is Ethan's torch? Bungler 01-07-02 9  RE: Where is Ethan's torch? TheWanderer 01-07-02 5    TOM AND T-BIRD DON'T SPEAK! Rose Red 01-08-02 10        RE: TOM AND T-BIRD DON'T SPEAK! weltek 01-08-02 13  RE: Where is Ethan's torch? Tatina 01-08-02 11  RE: Where is Ethan's torch? mindysue 01-08-02 12    RE: Where is Ethan's torch? Rose Red 01-08-02 14

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The Lopi 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 01-07-02, 12:52 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" First post so please bear with me - I went to the thread that seemed most appropriate, and I've tried to read everything posted before but obviously could've missed something. At this stage whoever of Lex and Ethan doesn't win IC has to be the next to go - too many dislikes of Lex,and Ethan is just a plain threat. My guess is Ethan goes next. After that it's anybody's game. But did anybody notice Lex's personality in the interactions with his family - he was a completely different person and his wife and kids clearly knew/loved him well. That with the hospital scenes made him seem much more likable. To me he has been playing the game, and whatever mistakes he's made (and some big ones) we've seen them. I think he wins! PS In such a highly charged issue why wouldn't MB allow all the contestants go with the supplies to the clinic ?? - if you want to be seen as missionary then at least let everyone participate - wonderful reward but not right as a challenge.   Top

dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 01-07-02, 01:24 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Bungler, you do amazing work. Where would we be without your vidcaps and analysis? I won't presume to follow your reading of the caps, I can't discern the things you do - I just believe you. What keeps me stuck is this: the ONLY way Ethan can be voted out is if MamaKim votes for him. There is no tie he would lose, so it has to be 3-1 against him. What possible scenario would have MK voting for Ethan? Oh Great Spoiler Minds, is there one? I haven't come up with one yet, and I'd love to hear it if someone has. dangerkitty   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 01-07-02, 01:40 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" If Lex wins immunity, and Lex and Tom ask her to vote with them against Ethan, I think it is very possible that she will join them to vote for Ethan. He is a threat for immunity, and it would give her a great shot at the final two, and it would guarantee her the final three(which she can not have for sure right now). A lot of folks see Mama Kim as the fourth person in the alliance, and if she is given a chance to be final three, I think she would probably snatch that right up. Now that they are in the final four I won't be surprised about anyone voting for anyone else.   Top

psileste 23 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 01-07-02, 02:06 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" If Lex wins immunity, MK would still be in the final 3 if she and Ethan vote for Tom, since Tom has more votes than she does. As long as she and Ethan vote together she will be in the final 3.   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 01-07-02, 03:53 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" This is true, and would be the smartest for the two of them no matter which scenario we look at, but there is no guarantee at all that they will vote together. It is definitely conceivable that Ethan could be the first one gone this episode due to the fact that he is a threat. It certainly would not be the most shocking thing that could happen, anyway.   Top

wendyp 2081 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 01-07-02, 04:35 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" If Ethan is gone first it sure would throw alot of people for a loop. However I agree with MD that it would be smart to vote off Ethan, since he is a IC threat and very likeable. If MamaKim is smart she will vote with Lex and Tom to boot Ethan. She knows that Lex does not trust Tom and his comment about the jury does not know that side of him. She would be thinking that Lex will pick her and she will win against Lex. The only problem with this is will Tom pick her if he wins IC or will he stick to his word with Lex.   Top

Ogachu 58 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 01-07-02, 01:31 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" LAST EDITED ON 01-07-02 AT 01:31 PM (EST) Just to the left of the Immunity necklace, between it and MK's torch, what is that stick thing with red paint near the bottom. Part of the boma, or possibly the bottom portion of Ethan's torch??? "Your big country ass is climbing a palm tree in the middle of Africa, you realize that, don’t you?" -- Clarence / S3   Top

Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-07-02, 09:19 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Ogachu, That thing is a spear.   Top

TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 01-07-02, 01:47 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Bungler... Great caps and analysis. However, at this stage of the game, is it possible that MB is trying to play head games with us? Last night, I saw a commercial for the finale epsiode. It said to tune in at 7:30 for a preview show (here on the west coast). THe final piece of the commercical was very interesting. As they began to flash all the survivors, I tried to take notice of the order. It was not in the order of booting until the F5, where they flashed the faces in the following order: Teresa, Lex, MK, Tom and Ethan. Ethan's flash lasted the longest. Does this mean anything? Maybe; maybe not. I highly doubt that MK would vote off Ethan if he doesn't win the IC in the F4. She would then know she would not be oicked in the F2. She knows she has a better chance if she keeps Ethan to be in the F2. IMHO, the F4 IC will be won by Lex. Lex and Tom vote for MK (thereby Lex keeping his word not to vote for Tom). Ethan and MK vote for Tom. In the 2-2 tie, Tom loses due to prior votes.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-08-02, 02:53 AM (EST) 10. "TOM AND T-BIRD DON'T SPEAK!" I totally agree with this last post. MK has gotta wanna stay longer than F4 if she has the chance to. Now let me point you all to what T-Bird just told Entertainment Weekly today. SHE AND TOM DO NOT SPEAK!!!! ew: Have you spoken to Big Tom since he found out you tried to get him kicked off? TB: I haven't talked to Tom.(!?!?!??!??!??!?! Punctuation, mine) I don't know how he's going to react t it. But what I said is true. He had actually tried to get Lex off a bunch of times but he didn't want to do it himself. WHOA! Why wouldn't Tom extend the same courtesy to fellow Southerner Teresa, whom he seemed so fond of, that he's extended to Ethan, Jessie and now Brandon,( who is planning to visit the Goat Farm of the Universe, but hasn't yet. )??? BECAUSE TERESA'S LAST MANIPULATION WORKED and they vote off Tom next. I do not consider this pan across the torches a spoiler. I do a weekly cable TV show and I'm tellin' yawl, just because the camera has STOPPED PANNING doesn't mean that Ethan's torch was just inches on the other side of the shot. Unless you saw the WHOLE camp in a pan and his torch was nowhere to be found, and even that is not definate proof of anything. Ethan could've been holding it for a few minutes for some reason. Anything is possible-- MB is just screwing with out heads again, per usual. True-er Spoilers- Tom's Sister and the whole darn town saying he made it to the F4, but not necessarily beyond it. I think Tom's feet and MK's dung bath are much more reliable spoilers in that it tells us that NEITHER wins. MB wouldn't edit his winners to be smellin' up the place. The only thing that bothers me about this scenario is that great pic of Ethan visiting Tom. You wouldn't think that Tom would have him down to his farm, if like Kelly got rid of Sue at the end of S1, he voted him off... But MK's now under the gun. She's GOTTA work some big something this time or she IS OUT. And Teresa told Lex and KIM about Tom's vote. Hmmmm.... The still most likely final two are Lex and Ethan. Or Ethan and MK, per Kelly's friends' list.   Top

weltek 16936 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 01-08-02, 09:27 AM (EST) 13. "RE: TOM AND T-BIRD DON'T SPEAK!" Great info, Rose Red. I think it makes a good case for him going next or being in 3rd place. I think Lex wins immunity and gets honest with Tom about what he heard. In true Lex fashion, he'd want to tell Tom why he's going to vote for him. He must explain why it's ok to break the promise they made. I could see Tom saying that "Teresa ain't done me right".   Top

Tatina 112 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 01-08-02, 05:59 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Now, I haven't actually seen this sequence, so I might be wrong about this, but I think that Ethan's torch is simply further left from Mama's torch, since the camera movement seems to be from right to left and it stops to the Mama's torch.   Top

mindysue 39 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 01-08-02, 08:26 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Yesterday I saw a preview that said at the end "Does Ethan, the fan favorite, win it all?" People are going to tune in to see if Ethan wins. If Ethan is voted out early in the show, many of Ethan's fans are going to change the channel. They might not care if it is Tom, Lex, or Mama Kim that wins it all, only to see how Ethan does. MB has an obligation to his advertisers. He does not want to have people changing the channel in the middle of the show to something else. Instead he wants to attract more viewers as the show progesses. As a result, I think that Ethan will make it to the final 2. That is the only way to keep Ethan's large fan base to continue to watch.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 01-08-02, 11:32 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Where is Ethan's torch?" Excellent observation, and I think you're right. Hope you're right. I can totally see Ethan moving right into a major film career from this.   Top

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