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mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-25-01, 02:40 AM (EST) "Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" Kelly gave us atleast 3 pieces of info that I think are relevant. 1) Kelly came to like Frank 2) Brandon and Kim Powers are on friendly terms (talk regularly) 3) Teresea is a "Master manipulator" 1st Kelly came to like Frank - Based on the 1st piece of info we deduce Frank and Kelly had to spend some qualitly time together at Loser Lodge, so we were prety sure Frank would be voted out in the next 2 episodes. Most all of us incorrectly made the assumption it would be during the second episode. That was a mistake on our part, not Kelly's. The info she gave us was valid we just didn't come to the right conclusion. 2nd Brandon and Kim Powers are on friendly terms Based on the 2nd piece of info I suggest Kim Powers hangs around in the game for awhile. My argument essentially is that Kim Powers was hurt/betrayed by Brandon when he jumping to Boran - If Kim Powers get's the ax this week it will still be directly due to Brandon being a turncoat. I think the longer Kim hangs around in the game the more likely she is forgive Brandon. The speculation that Kim Powers hangs around for awhile dove tails nicely with the 3rd piece of information Kelly gave us which is... 3rd Teresa is a Master manipulator. Several people selected Kim Powers as their boot choice this week based on the proposition that this spoiler had failed to come to pass. I had suggested the possibility that the Master manipulator tag was due to Teresa freaking Lex out when she voted against him, thus causing him to question Kelly's loyalty to the Boran alliance. If we all agree at this point that the vote against Lex was NOT the event that earned Teresea the Master manipulator tag doesn't it really stand to reason the only thing that can really earn her that tag is to survive the Pagonging? Teresea can survive the Pagonging in one of 2 ways. She can EITHER convince 1 Boran to betray the L/T/E/MK alliance and join her and Kim P, OR she can wait until Kim P is voted out and then convice 2 Boran to Betray the L/T/E/MK alliance. I think that's pretty much the only 2 choices, any 3rd ideas are welcome. The idea that 1 Boran jumps ship (specifically Lex) and joins Teresea and KimP makes the most sense for the following reason. 1st Occams razor says it makes more sense for 1 Boran to betray the alliance than it does for 2 Boran to betray the alliance. 2nd The idea that 1 Boran betrays the alliance to join Teresea and KimP dove tails nicely with the theory that KimP hangs around long enough to no longer blame her ouster on Brandon. 3rd The Boran alliance has shifted from Lex-Tom-Ethan with MammaKim as the 4th wheel to now being Tom-Ethan-(maybe) MammaKim with Lex as the 4th wheel. 4th MammaKim didn't like Kelly playing both sides and seemed offended when Teresea suggested an all woman alliance, But Lex has shown a willingness to ammend alliances to fit his needs. 5th Teresea essentially told MammaKim thanks for letting us know your not interested, it gives us a chance to try other stuff. IE. Teresea isn't giving up. 6th Lex's "gut" told him he could trust Teresea when he was looking for the "snake" that voted against him. Ok, I know some of these overlap somewhat, and some of the ideas could be expanded on and fleshed out. But It's getting late and I think ya'll get the gist of what I'm suggesting. The strongest arguement against this is that Lex shouldn't switch sides and that he should stick with his Boran alliance. But Lex hasn't really been playing according to the game strategy we've seen in SI or SII. Between telling Clarence "We pick you", to risking the Boran's 5-4 advantage by voting out Kelly, Lex is playing the game in away none of us would have imagined someone who wanted to win $1,000,000 would have dared.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... Rose Red 12-25-01 1    Reasons for Lex mavsfan 12-25-01 2        RE: Reasons for Lex Rose Red 12-25-01 3  RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... TheWanderer 12-26-01 4    RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... dabo 12-26-01 5        small correction Outfrontgirl 12-26-01 13            Agree AyaK 12-26-01 14                RE: Agree Outfrontgirl 12-26-01 16                    Links AyaK 12-26-01 17                        RE: Links Outfrontgirl 12-26-01 22        RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... Loree 12-27-01 32  Kelly & Frank Bebo 12-26-01 6    RE: Kelly & Frank MDSkinner 12-26-01 7  RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... Swami 12-26-01 8    Claypots - IC or RC? Rose Red 12-26-01 9        RE: Claypots - IC or RC? dabo 12-26-01 10  RE: Lex cleaned up Loree 12-26-01 11    RE: Lex cleaned up dabo 12-26-01 12  RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pa... Outfrontgirl 12-26-01 15    The Hidden Alliance-Ethan and Kim P... Rose Red 12-26-01 18        Several comments AyaK 12-26-01 19            RE: Several comments Rose Red 12-26-01 20                Ayak! OFG! I found Kelly's quote Rose Red 12-27-01 26            Lex's target ------> Tom mavsfan 12-26-01 21                RE: Lex's target ------> Tom dabo 12-26-01 23                    Brandon's reasoning Rose Red 12-27-01 24                RE: Lex's target ------> Tom Naked 12-27-01 27                    RE: Lex's target ------> Tom mavsfan 12-27-01 30  Accurate quotes, a good thing if we... Outfrontgirl 12-27-01 25    RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing i... Rose Red 12-27-01 28        RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing i... Outfrontgirl 12-27-01 29            RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing i... mavsfan 12-27-01 31

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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-25-01, 10:25 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" >Kelly gave us atleast 3 pieces >of info that I think >are relevant. >2) Brandon and Kim Powers are >on friendly terms (talk regularly) > >3) Teresea is a "Master manipulator" >2nd Brandon and Kim Powers are >on friendly terms > >Based on the 2nd piece of >info I suggest Kim Powers >hangs around in the game >for awhile. My argument >essentially is that Kim Powers >was hurt/betrayed by Brandon when >he jumping to Boran - >If Kim Powers get's the >ax this week it will >still be directly due to >Brandon being a turncoat. >I think the longer Kim >hangs around in the game >the more likely she is >forgive Brandon. The >speculation that Kim Powers hangs >around for awhile dove tails >nicely with the 3rd piece >of information Kelly gave us >which is... > >3rd Teresa is a Master manipulator. > > >Several people selected Kim Powers as >their boot choice this week >based on the proposition that >this spoiler had failed to >come to pass. I >had suggested the possibility that >the Master manipulator tag was >due to Teresa freaking Lex >out when she voted against >him, thus causing him to >question Kelly's loyalty to the >Boran alliance. If we >all agree at this point >that the vote against Lex >was NOT the event that >earned Teresea the Master manipulator >tag doesn't it really stand >to reason the only thing >that can really earn her >that tag is to survive >the Pagonging? > >Teresea can survive the Pagonging in >one of 2 ways. >She can EITHER convince 1 >Boran to betray the L/T/E/MK >alliance and join her and >Kim P, OR she can >wait until Kim P is >voted out and then convice >2 Boran to Betray the >L/T/E/MK alliance. I think >that's pretty much the only >2 choices, any 3rd ideas >are welcome. Merry Christmas, mavs! And for your present I would like to point out just HOW much of a master manipulator Teresa turns out to be! From the Vid caps for the next ripsnortin' episode, TOM seems to be out on the safari/balloon/overnight RC with someone slimmer(who isn't?) I thought at first this was Ethan. But due to the SUDDEN cleaned up haircut and beard trim of a VERY spruced up Lewith movie star sunglasses, yet)that is pictured in the next IC, the claypot/cudgel competition, I'm deducing that Lex and Tom go on this reward-to-end-all-rewards, which probably also effectively will end the L/E/T and either one or both of their games. This overnight RC gives the "Master Manipulator" Teresa to go to work in overdrive on the remaining two Boron, Mamakim AND Ethan. Teresa must be a VERY effective real estate salesperson. I think she could sell any one anything and she sells Mamakim and Ethan their dream house in the sky, but convincing them to vote out whichever of the two absent gentlemen(I use the termly LOOSELY) does not win immunity. Mamakim wouldn't do this big move alone, but with Ethan she would and vice versa. The end game is nigh, and both of them have expressed their displeasure with Lex's Brandon moment. Although Teresa has been playing up to Lex, she and Mamakim and Ethan were on the same team after the switch. Kim P will fly under the radar and do whatever MamaT-Bird tells her to do at this point. The vid caps also heavily imply that Ethan, and the Kims do not win the IC. There is that vidcap with the three of them walking out of the boma without the necklace. Now it's hard to tell, but it looks like Tom and Lex back in the boma don't have necklaces either. EPMB is really handing the story to us this week. If Teresa wins immunity who are L/E/T gonna vote for? Kim P.? Or the now-seen-to-be-traitorous MamaK.? Tina Wesson in US Weekly thinks L/E/T will stay together to the end, and Michael Maerz of Intertops is quoted as saying that MK 'thinks she's in with the L/E/T alliance, but isn't." Kelly's, who is now said to be a former SurvivorSucks poster(and maybe still is, and perhaps here,too), "Master Manipulator Teresa" term was blurted out in a fashion to make me believe that it's true. She hasn't earned this title yet, as you point out, mavs. But I think this episode is the week that all MPMB's switched chickens come home to roost. And the dust devil tells us that there is a HUGE voting change coming. OK.OK. So Teresa works and works on Mamakim and Ethan. They are resistant, but Ethan is pissed at Lex for taking Tom, when he took Lex on his goat trip. And realizes that he is third man out and that Lex is the immunity threat. Kelly(spoiling again)seemed to have some fence-mending time with Lex (at Loser Lodge? Where else?). Otherwise would she have called him like she did that night her boot aired? She had NONE with Mamakim, and also seemed distant from Ethan. Her FUN AT THE LODGE indicates someone like Tom joining her and the fun team of Brandon and Frank pretty soon. Both of these statements, if true, indicate that BOTH Lex and Tom end up at the Tassia Hotel. She seemed truly distant from MK and Ethan. If MK were to go this week, she might have had the time to make up with her, but she seems to have had none. Ethan and MK - and Teresa and Kim P. put their plan into act to oust a Boron and then Lex wins an immunity again and they have to target Tom. I think Ethan may think that his chances with the women are better than with L/E/T now that the game is winding up and it's time to cut his loses and get ruthless. But it backfires on him when Lex wins immunity again and they have to target his good buddy Tom. I hope acid casualty Lex goes though. ANOTHER Kelly spoiler is her statement that she would vote for "Any Samburu" which indicates that either Teresa or Kim P. make it to the final two. And Kelly has a choice. If Kelly is to be beleived at all. After all, this is the girl who said that she was "rooting for Frank". Yeah, right. And Frank this week only gave us all his name, rank, and serial number. I think this week is the episode to end all episodes in terms of switches and twists and turns. The African Dust Devil was Tornado-sized last week foreshadowing the biggest dust-up of them all...   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-25-01, 07:00 PM (EST) 2. "Reasons for Lex" Rose, it looks like we agree that Tbird manages to pull a Boran over to her side, but I disagree completely as to who plays the part of Benedict Arnold. T-bird only needs 1 Boran because she already has Kim Powers with her. There is no reason for her to try to get 2 boran to play Benedict Arnold. Even if T-bird WANTED to pull 2 Boran over, Ethan isn't going anywhere. He's ALREADY part of a 3 person alliance in his mind. Ethan has reason to believe the alliance is currently the E/T/l alliance... If Lex flakes out E/T pull in MK and cut Lex out of the deal. (which is MammaKim's hope). So I can't get on board for Ethan joining up with T-bird and Kim P. MammaKim has more reason to join T-bird this week than last week, now that Frank is out of the picture. But MammaKim seemed insulted last week that T-bird would EVEN SUGGEST MammaKim should defect. If MammaKim were going to EVEN CONSIDER defecting, then she wouldn't have been telling Boran what T-bird was up to. MammaKim pretty much turned her back on Kelly for fraternizing with the enemy. I can't see MammaKim being the Benedict Arnold. Mammakim almost certainly figures that if she made the final 2 against T-bird of KimP, that her old Boran teamates would "goon" her. MammaKim's chance at the $1,000,000 is better if she sticks with Boran. Finally, I just don't think MammaKim is cut throat enough to break her Boran alliance. This leaves Tom or Lex as the possible turncoat. We know Tom is already displeased with Lex regarding Lex's loyaltly to Brandon. If Tom or Lex either one win the RC It is logical that the winner brings the other to "talk about it, man to man". Should Tom or Lex fail to reasurances the other that they are FIRMLY in the Boran alliance, then they will be drawing a big old circle on their chest. I think if Lex decides the Boran alliance has shifted to E/MK/T that he will be receptive to Tbirds overtures, and that Lex will play the role of Benedict Arnold joining in a Tbird/Lex/KimP alliance.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-25-01, 08:32 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Reasons for Lex" Lex is the immunity threat to Ethan and to all of them actually. Should he NOT get the immunity this week, he's gone. If you want to think of it this way, Ethan is running the show, and can talk MK and Tom, nevermind TB and KP to join him in this AND THEY ALL WILL. Is Lex good at throwing things, aiming things, yes. I think he did VERY well at the bow and arrow, but refresh my memory if I'm wrong, Ethan totally rocked. I think EPMB realizing he's got another "star" on his hands, like Colby, has started creating immunity challenges that Ethan could conceivably win. Like this week's claypot challenge. The fact that we see Lex's pot shattering may mean something, but then again may not. But his haircut certainly does. Also, these people have been out there over a month now, and the end game is nearer for them than for us, and things start to break down. Ethan'll NO arguments from Tom over getting rid of Lex now. If Teresa wins immunity she's saved this week, but NEXT week her number could be coming up. However, ALL the men may turn on Mamakim for even wavering a little. Ethan may not like that, though, and try to stop it. I hope he would any way. No, Lex has gotta go.   Top

TheWanderer 267 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-26-01, 11:05 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" In another thread, someone posted that in an interview with Kelly, she stated that she called Lex after the episode of her booting and he wasn't pleased to hear from her. Why would he continue to hold a grudge (like Soozan against Kelly in S1), unles that meant something. As much as many of us (and the viewing audience in general) would like to see Lex go, I think he stays at least until the F3, if not F2. I believe he either wins the RC or is taken along by the winner and that is why he looks cleaned up. If Tom wins, it would be a good idea to take Lex along. Remember that we are not shown these challenges and their results in an un-cut fashion. Maybe the contestants have a little bit of time to "strategize" before making their pick as to whom to take along. Is it possible that E/MK/T decided that if one of them wins, that the winner take Lex along? Or Maybe Tom thought this up all on his own. In either case, this would give a "calmer" environment in the camp, for the remaining to to take the "temperature" and maybe give a glimmer of false hope to the remaining Samburus. Since strategy plays a big part in the game ("Outwit"), why else would they show Tom playing checkers and beating everyones ass? According to the CBS info for Ep 11, the IC is similar to that in S2, where the contestants' families actually make-or-break the IC for them. That means it's anyone's game. Also, given that MK spoke with Ethan about Teresa's plotting, it is quite possible that barring immunity T-bird gets ousted. Her manipulation can go just so far. Remember that some of these contestants have lucrative endorsement contracts at stake. If they give away too much, MB can quickly kill those endorsements, which would be far more painful than a $5 million dollar lawsuit. That is why I wouldn't place too much creedance in to Kelly's comments at this time; the only statement I would read into is what I referred to above regarding her call to Lex. I like Kelly and wanted to see her go farther as I believe many people did. The way she was booted was played up to force the viewers into seeing Lex for what he really is: and obsessive paranoid.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 12:12 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" I don't think Lex would have been holding a grudge against Kelly right after watching the episode in which she was booted, he may have been embarrassed and unprepared to deal with her at that time. Anyway, in her words, Kelly thought the real alliance in OB was L/E/K/K, not L/E/T, So Kim J. may feel that the real alliance (post Kelly) was still L/E/K(herself) with Tom as the fourth, rather than L/E/T with herself as the fourth. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 04:58 PM (EST) 13. "small correction" dabo, >>I don't think Lex would have been holding a grudge against Kelly right after watching the episode in which she was booted FWIW (maybe nothing), Kelly said she called Lex from the East Coast in advance of his seeing the show on the West Coast. (Ah, that 2 hour window of time I know so well!) So Lex had not yet seen the show, and Kelly said she was letting him know he didn't come off edited as bad or mean as she expected, which says to me she thought he looked relatively good compared to how he behaved during that period. Yikes, cause he came off as a paranoid psycho egomaniac... As to a grudge--I don't think we can really figure out much beyond the fact that Lex still didn't like Kelly, never did from the beginning of the game and the feeling was mutual. It's certainly possible they could have spent time together outside the game and maintained their dislike since it seems to stem from a personality aversion, aggravated by Kelly having a good case for a grudge against Lex for choosing not to believe her after she swore on the life of her brother. Plus, Lex had ample time to see one or more clips of Kelly ranting against the way Lex acted like her dad, before the boot episode. On the other hand, when Kelly says "Lex is a nice person outside the game" she says "he's a dad" etc.. She used examples from what she knows of his real life. I have NEVER heard her say he's been nice to her outside the game or showed his good side directly to her. This inclines me to think they didn't spend much time socializing at the Lodge (meaning 5th or better for Lex), but maybe not. Hanging out didn't help Frank and Brandon bond, another pair who just don't mesh.   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 05:43 PM (EST) 14. "Agree" >This inclines me to think they didn't spend much time >socializing at the Lodge (meaning 5th or better for Lex), but >maybe not. Hanging out didn't help Frank and Brandon >bond, another pair who just don't mesh. Just to reinforce this point, here are Brandon's comments about Frank, in EW: ******************** So you even talk to Frank? I didn't like Frank at all until I got home. After we were back for a little while, Frank called and put his girls on the phone to say hi to me. I guess he's only really in his element at home. ********************* So, we know that Brandon and Frank were in the lodge together for 9 days, but Brandon didn't like Frank until they were back home. It's interesting, because the first two series of "Survivor" didn't seem to have these lingering animosities. Oh, and here's what Kelly had to say about Lex: ********************** So how much do you hate Lex? You know what's funny? I don't hate him. It was the way he was running things that I was uncomfortable with. He went through this emotional transition when we got to Samburu. Before that he was a happy-go-lucky guy. The things he said about me were definitely cruel and unusual. Even when I said bad things about people, you could tell I was kidding. The scary thing about him was how serious he was. Have you spoken since you've been back from Africa? I called him last night, actually. Before I started speaking ill of him on TV we talked every once in a while. After the Thanksgiving episode I knew I was next, so I waited until the show aired to call him again. I called him last night because I wanted to tell him I had no ill will and it's just a game. He wasn't too excited to hear from me, so that was a quick conversation. ************************* And, since we're on the subject, here's what Frank has to say about Lex: ************************* Why do you think Lex was gunning for you? Lex is a good guy. He just saw me as a threat. It was a case of two alpha dogs in the same litter box. You can't have it. But he had distanced himself from some of his own tribe members and that foundation was crumbling, so it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if I had won the immunity challenge. **************************** Frank thinks "Lex is a good guy"? Hmmmmm.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 06:17 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Agree" Very interesting, AyaK. The Frank quote on Lex was new to me, and it's definitely food for thought. Could certainly point to a Lex boot. I missed all the interviews this week except Early Show, due to the holiday. Would you mind identifying the source so I can check it out? As for the lingering animosity: I think with Brandon and Frank it boils down to Frank's rigid disapproval of Brandon's lifestyle--primarily his gayness, probably the bartending and partying too. The NRA differences, other political issues. As Brandon said, they are so far apart in their views, that if they never played Survivor they could have lived next door and never spoken a word to each other. In S1 we saw Rudy come around to the idea that he could like a gay guy without approving of the lifestyle, but maybe Frank's disapprovals ran even deeper and more inflexibly than Rudy's--plus the two were NEVER true allies. It's pretty hard to warm up to a guy who so totally and vocally opposes every thing you stand for day in and day out.   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 06:30 PM (EST) 17. "Links" LAST EDITED ON 12-26-01 AT 06:34 PM (EST) OFG (and everyone else interested), each of those quotes comes from an interview on EW.com: Frank, dated 12-26-01. Brandon, dated 12-17-01. Kelly, dated 12-10-01, which is also the source of the "Lindsey/Jerri" confusion. Frank's CBS Web chat, which has not yet been posted, had zero spoiler value. My favorite moment: benny: Did you do anything interesting to pass the time once you were in the jury? Survivor_Frank: Yes. Gee, Frank, did you ever think that someone might have wanted to know what you did? Thanks for sharing, dude.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 11:02 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Links" AyaK, thanks for the links! I had seen Kelly's but the two latest I had not. I'm not sure whether the comment on Lex is spoiler or anti-spoiler, but it's interesting. Then there's his comment that he told Teresa to vote for him because he didn't want her to be the next one booted after him, which presents a similar question... It's really funny to hear Brandon saying he allied with Lex over Kelly because Kelly was too smart, whereas Lex was paranoid and easy to manipulate. Loved it! And this, from your post above: benny: Did you do anything interesting to pass the time once you were in the jury? Survivor_Frank: Yes. My immediate thought: Now here's a deposition witness who followed his attorney's instructions to answer "yes" and "no" whenever possible... Did he give his name, rank, and serial # as answer to any of the questions?   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-27-01, 12:25 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" Everytime I hear a reference to Lex disliking Kelly (even now) I think he must not win the game. Anyone who had won the game would have no reason to resent the other players. I would think you would be more generous about forgiving if it was a good experience. But if his witch hunt of Kelly is what started his downfall he could still indirectly blame her. He doesn't even want to be reminded of that incident by speaking to her. He seems to have some bad feelings and that would not be how the probable winner would act.   Top

Bebo 21083 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 12:21 PM (EST) 6. "Kelly & Frank" Kelly is good friends with Brandon, who is at Loser Lodge with her. Kelly gets to know Frank at Loser Lodge. The most logical reason would be that the next bootee would want to pal around with Brandon but not with Frank, which would lead Kelly to spend the quality time with Frank. Who fits? Teresa - NO. If Teresa is the next one voted out, she'll hang out with Frank instead of Brandon, so they'll be no reason for Kelly to reach out to Frank. Tom - NO. Tom would feel more comfortable hanging around with Frank than Brandon. Ethan - NO. Ethan had conversations with Frank before he left and did not trust Brandon, so he would be more likely to hang out with Frank. KimJ - NO. No sign of bonding between her and Brandon during the game. Frank would be willing to associate with her, respecting that she "honored" her word given to her OB alliance. KimP - YES. Yes, she felt betrayed by Brandon. But Brandon has made it clear that her friendship meant a lot to him, so he would try and patch things up with her at the first possible opportunity. He succeeds, so they must have had some time to iron things out. Lex - YES. How obvious was it that Lex did not like Frank? Add to that his friendship with Brandon and refusal to vote against him, plus the rift between Lex and Kelly, and it would be very reasonable that a Lex boot would force Kelly to get to know Frank better. So just looking at the Kelly and Frank quality time issue makes Lex and KimP the two most likely to get the boot next episode.   Top

MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-26-01, 12:45 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Kelly & Frank" See, I think that Teresa fits this as well. When Kelly was booted off, at the end she did create a bond with Teresa and formed an alliance(albeit a very short lived one) and I think it is very possible that even though Teresa would hang out with Frank a great deal, she may also feel inclined to hang out with Kelly. This might very well be the thing to bring them together, and in fact I see this as far more of a likely scenario than that of either KimP or Lex. Plus, I don't see how a Lex boot would incline Kelly to get to know Frank. Neither of the two would want to hang with Lex most likely, but it also would not necessarily make them hang out together either. If it were to do that, then they would have started that relationship already since it is just the two of them and Brandon. Adding Lex to that mix does not add anything in regards to Kelly and Franks relationship. So I think you are stretching on that one basically. Kim P is probably the most likely to bring the two together, but I think that Teresa could easily do that as well, and maybe even more likely.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 02:10 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" > >Teresea can survive the Pagonging in >one of 2 ways. >She can EITHER convince 1 >Boran to betray the L/T/E/MK >alliance and join her and >Kim P, OR she can >wait until Kim P is >voted out and then convice >2 Boran to Betray the >L/T/E/MK alliance. I think >that's pretty much the only >2 choices, any 3rd ideas >are welcome. If Lex does not win immunity this week, Teresa will survive because there will be no pagonging done. Lex has shown himself to be a HUGE competitor. This must give Ethan nightmares. In competitions, Lex is smart, focused and man does he hustle--that guy is faster than Ethan as they sprint from spot to spot in contests. And if Lex makes it to F3, he is not going to pick Everyone Loves Ethan to go with him. If she is still there, he will pick the Thong Granny because T-Bird/F/K/B & KP are unlikely to vote for her, IMO. So, Ethan should support booting Lex at first opportunity since it may be the only opportunity. MK will go along with E. Everyone, Boran & Samburu alike, can happily vote off Lex--E/KJ/T will still have the numbers to take their alliance farther into the game. >The Boran alliance has shifted >from Lex-Tom-Ethan with MammaKim as >the 4th wheel to now >being Tom-Ethan-(maybe) MammaKim >with Lex as the 4th wheel. I'm sure Lex senses this too. So.... If Lex does win immunity, who do they vote off? Lex trusts T-Bird & E, he needs KimJ at the end, so KimP or possibly-but-unlikely Tom become his targets. Can master manipulator T-bird convince L that Tom is the one who should go? Or will she abandon KimP & try to partner with her good buddy Lex who trusts her with all of his famous gut? (Ethan will let Lex take the lead again in deciding who to oust in this scenario). MamaKim said it would be "an interesting Tribal Council". A Pagong is NOT interesting. And as several people including Rose Red(Herring) have pointed out, that old swirling dust devil has grown huge & its coming our way again. Times they are a changin' in SurvivorLand. No pagong this week. Swami   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-26-01, 02:21 PM (EST) 9. " Claypots - IC or RC?" Thanks, Swami, for totally reading my mind(and my posts) I totally agree with you. The GET RID OF LEX campaign will reach critical mass this week. Also, there seemed to be some confusion elsewhere on these threads that the Internet Cafe- The Folks at Home Compete by Answering Africa Questions - is the IC, and NOT the claypots, which would make the claypots the RC. Any clarifications? If it's the folks at home who determine the winner of the IC ANYBODY could win this. But I seem pretty sure its the clay pots.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 02:30 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Claypots - IC or RC?" Internet trivia with family at home winning immunity for their loved one in Africa? That totally sucks but after the subjective distress signal ic and MB throwing the chaotic game regressive 3-3 switch into the works, anything is possible. I hope you are wrong about this, Rose, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything MB might pull. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 02:40 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Lex cleaned up" Lex may not win anything or be taken on a trip. This could be the episode where they all get gifts from home. Someone could get a razor and Lex shaves with it. They have gotten things from home before. Since they talk to their loved ones this week I would not be surprised to see gifts included.   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 02:52 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Lex cleaned up" The "care package from home" has always been delivered by the "visitor from home" (Sean's dad, Colby's mom), so this would be another indicator that possibly the "reminders of home" and "visitor from home" have been combined into one episode this time. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 06:02 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Kelly helped us - The end of Pagonging" Mavsfan-- Your post is so well presented and full of interesting thinking. Much of it makes sense to me, although I don't see Lex jumping ship at this point. Could happen, though. About the Kelly's friends' Lodge spoiler--which is 2-2 now even if that may be the end of its run: Bebo's post above is closest to my thinking: KimP or Lex fit the current dynamic and Teresa does not. I tend to think KimP is more likely to repair her friendship with Brandon if she goes sooner, while you think later. I think both ways have valid points. So here's my counterargument to you on that: 1) the farther away people finish from each other in the game, the more reason for the one finishing worse off to hold a grudge. 2) the closer one gets to the possibility of winning the more seriously people take anything or anyone that ruined it for them. As Lex observed (I think correctly), the closer you get to feeling it's possible to win the more obsessed you become with staying, in which case KimP would be more likely to resent what Brandon did. 3) If KimP goes now, it's just as easy for her to realize that her own mistake in not re-uniting with Brandon cost her the game, and to feel guilty and want to make reparation when re-united with Brandon. 4) The friends history for S2 shows a pattern where people booted in reasonable proximity to each other tend to bond on the jury and stay in close touch afterwards, at least until the Finale has aired. (Exception: Colby and Nick at Vegas together although never did jury time together. BUT they have nearly the same birthday and hung out in a friendly fashion for the short time they were on the same tribe, and Nick NEVER had a reason to resent Colby, as Nick knew he was being booted for his IC threat potential and they were never allies so no betrayal.) At this point I feel either Lex or KimP would fit the jury profile, so I'm not saying it must go one way or another, just offering a rationale why it would also work for KimPowers to go at this juncture.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-26-01, 06:35 PM (EST) 18. "The Hidden Alliance-Ethan and Kim P." OFG, Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year, too, from your #1 fan. Besides Kelly, that is. Who used to be a member of SS. And she still might be posting there - and here. Anyway of checking if she was a Blows member past? Or present? Now, as far as hot of the press spoilers, Frank just pretty much sunk Lex as this week's bootee in EW. He told them, and I'm paraphrasing, that "It would have been interesting to see what happened if I stayed, since Lex was in an alliance WITH THOSE PEOPLE(caps mine) which was crumbling anyway." So I think it's Sexy Lexy who's leaving tomorrow night. I have to wonder if you have a bias against Kim P., though, I do have to say, OFG. And while it's understandable that someone as seemingly clueless and strategy-free as she is could make the Final 2 or even win, it's entirely possible. There are bigger targets than she is still left. Like Lex, Tom, Teresa, never mind Ethan. Kelly, since we can't seem to stop talking about her here, HI KELLY! BTW! did say she "would vote for someone from Samburu, y'know, like Teresa or Frank or Kim Powers. I wouldn't vote for someone from Boron, because they betrayed me."!!! This means she's she had a CHOICE?!? So it's one OB and one OS? Which could just be the Sphinx-like Kim P. Also, I see EPMB'S hiding of her for so long very suspicious. Why? This is what he did with Tina, if you remember, to divert attention away from her. To make her look not important. I'm beginning to think that he is doing this again with Kim P. Also, somewhere EPMB, and perhaps Jeff Probst said something to the effect that "The Final Two were the least likely people." Now, I don't know where this quote came from. Perhaps somebody else knows. And Kim P. would certainly fit "the least likely" defintion. Also, I think that night watch scene with her and Ethan, which you thought was gratutious, was actually very important. They were showing what they were BONDING. She was turning to Ethan for help.And he seemed to like her. Also,that statement by either EPMB and/or Jeff Probst, saying that the winner, or the final two was shown in the first fifteen minutes, or was it five minutes? of Ep.1. Ethan and Kim P. were the first two people to embrace each other after the tribe got off the bus. Significant? Maybe...Maybe not... I also remember feeling about her the way I felt about Tina at this time last year when Tina experienced a similar spike in face time. I was beginning to have to revise my opinion of Tina as a non-entity, because she was certainly emerging, as,well, AN ENTITY. NOBODY takes Kim P. seriously as a contender. But there she is in the final six. Already yet. And people are starting to like her, Tom, for one big for instance and Ethan...Are the Kims and Ethan the final three? And Ethan votes out Mamakim at the last minute thinking that she would be more sympathetic than Kim P. But with all those OS's on the tribe, I think they'd ALL VOTE for her to win. Also, Brandon would make friends with ANYbody who got to the Final Four, or Three, or Two, or One. Especially if it was his old friend Kim Powers who was about to become a millionare. And she'd help him out, outside the game. You know she would. Also, Carl and Linda's BOTH expressing regret about not knowing her better. Hmmmm.....   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 07:51 PM (EST) 19. "Several comments" >OFG, Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year, too, from your >#1 fan. Besides Kelly, that is. Who used to be >a member of SS. And she still might be posting >there - and here. Any way of checking if she was >a Blows member past? Or present? If Kelly were an SB member, we wouldn't reveal it in case it might tick off MB. SB members shouldn't have to worry about exposure. So ... since I've already stated that I wouldn't tell the truth if she were a member ... there isn't any point in answering the question, is there? >I have to wonder if you have a bias against Kim >P., though, I do have to say, OFG. Actually, I'm the one who speculated that this week's boot choice was either Kim P or Lex, based in large part on my belief that the Old Boran core sticks together. >Kelly, since we can't seem to stop talking about her here, >HI KELLY! BTW! did say she "would vote for someone >from Samburu, y'know, like Teresa or Frank or Kim Powers. >I wouldn't vote for someone from Boron, because they betrayed >me."!!! I don't remember seeing this quote. Where did she say this? Here's what I remember from her Web chat: BeastieGirl: Kelly, are you mad at Lex for orchestrating the vote against you? Kelly Goldsmith: You know what? No, I'm not mad at Lex. It's just a game. Everybody says it's just a game, but it's really important that you look at it like that, or else you end up building up hostility, and that hostility only hurts you. Forgiving and forgetting is really the only way that you can handle thing post-SURVIVOR. {N.B. A very intelligent answer, equally applicable to imaginary Survivor-style games.} hot tamale ringwald: You seemed angry at Tribal Council. Is that because you knew how your own tribe members were going to vote? Kelly Goldsmith: I wasn't angry as much as frustrated. It's hard to realize that the people you cared about distrust you and that you have no way to prove that you didn't do anything to lose their trust. I was very hurt. GKat: Kelly, what are your true impressions of the Boran members now that you have watched the episodes on TV? Kelly Goldsmith: Oh, I'm so excited to tell you! Diane's just crazy, but a lot of fun. Jessie's great; I wish she could have hung around more. I really enjoyed the time we spent together, that is when she wasn't sick. Now on to the juicy stuff! Let's see...Tom. Tom is very, very funny. He kept everyone laughing. Even a normal story told by Tom was really hilarious. Then we have Ethan. What's funny about Ethan is that I was out there with him for a long time but I never felt like I got to know him. He's very guarded, but a good guy. Let's see, who's next? Clarence! Clarence is awesome! The things some people didn't like about Clarence I grew to love. He could've cared less about playing the game of SURVIVOR. He was who he was and I thought he was fun to have around. I don't want to forget anybody. Let's see...now we go to Lex. To be honest, Lex isn't a bad guy. Until we switched over to Samburu he was a lot of fun, kind of happy-go-lucky, if you can believe it. I think really when Lex started politicking, the worst side of him came out. He was obviously very sensitive, almost to the point of paranoia. Unfortunately, it made him kind of unpleasant to be around, but again, that's just a small side of him. He's not a bad guy. Finally Kim Johnson: I have to be honest; she really let me down. Early on when she was losing challenges for us I would have done anything to help her stay. I thought we had a really great bond, but apparently it was superficial, if she would consent to vote against me that easily. Kelly_Fan: Kelly , has Lex apologized for making you the scapegoat? Kelly Goldsmith: You know what? I'm glad you asked. No, he hasn't, and I don't think he's sorry, But you know what? I'm not asking for an apology. It's a nasty game, and there can only be one winner. He did what he felt was right at the time, and that was it. If I were him I'd be sorry, though. ************************ None of those comments sound like someone who would prefer to vote for a member of Samburu over a former teammate, unless the former teammate were Lex or Mama Kim. I don't see any antipathy toward Tom or Ethan here. >Also, I see EPMB'S hiding of <Kim P.> for so >long <to be> very suspicious. Why? This >is what he did with Tina, if you remember, to >divert attention away from her. >To make her look not important. Some of us speculated that he was doing the same thing with Amber and Nick. But he wasn't; they just weren't "good TV." I think the same is true with Kim P. >Also, somewhere EPMB, and perhaps Jeff >Probst said something to the effect that "The Final Two >were the least likely people." Now, I don't know where this >quote came from. Perhaps somebody else knows. I have never seen this quote. Do you know where you might have heard it?   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-26-01, 10:29 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Several comments" At one point I thought I was reading nothing BUT Kelly quotes! She was so all over the place and in your face about it. But I THINK she said that on the Early Show. The remark about the two teams. And not voting for the Boron AT ALL. Or if it wasn't there, it could've been in her online chat, but I seem to remember her tone of voice, but perhaps I'm wrong. The only other place I could've seen it(since believe it or not, I don't have television. I live in a building that can't get reception in Manhattan because of all the skyscrapers around. After 9/11 I get channel 7, but nothing but snow on CBS, and Oy! I owe the cable company so much...well, I digress) The only other place I could've seen it was the E! pre-game show, where each bootee has a separate interview that they show done in an E! Studio somewhere. Probably New York. But perhaps I read it in a transcript of one of her many interviews. The E! Pre-Game Survivor Show is on at 7:30pm Thursdays right before the Big Show, and is a marvelous way to refresh and revisit before all the REAL drama begins. I find it a fun Survivor appetizer, but others might not. I was surprised nobody picked up on that Kelly quote, but I'm glad you are, AyaK. It's been bothering me since I heard/read it. The thing that sticks in my mind about it is that she said, that she would vote for "Frank, or Brandon or Kim Powers, or someone like that, y'know the Samburu" and I had to pause for a sec, because I FORGOT that she doesn't call her KIM P! Like we all do, DUH! Of course, Kelly being the mega-spoilster she seems to be, well, only HALF of what she said seems to be true, if that much. So I guess I figured her blatantly implying that the Final 2 were one OB and one OS was just as true as her saying, "I'm rooting for Frank" which I didn't believe the moment I heard it from either her or Clarence who also said. As I've said before her coldness regarding the OB scared me a little in its hostility, especially Kim J. which you've mentioned. There was NO mending there. Why? The KIMS are the Final Two? Though maybe that wasn't on the Early Show either, maybe it was the E! Pre-game interview. There's usually not much on that show in terms of Spoilage, but to see the old Survivors interacting is some times priceless. And where are Colby, Tina, Keith, Elizabeth, Rodger,Alicia, Nick or Amber? NOWHERE to be seen on these shows. It's always Jerri and Kimmi(who don't seem to get a long) and Mitchell and I think once it was Jeff Varner. Richard Hatch, of course, and Joel Klug, who has a lovely affable presence, has been on the most after Jerri. And Gervase who just sits there. Jerri,beleive it or not, SHINES on this show. Is Kim P. good TV? Well, that's an interesting question. WAS TINA? With that metallic voice and, er, unusual build? Kim P., and I don't want to sound like her advocate here, is reasonably attractive and has "a good body" as Jeff Probst keeps pointing out, defensively, in interviews when told that "they voted out all the cute chicks." I hope she's not as dumb as she sometimes seems. To have survived as long as she has implies a certain cunning, at any rate. Richard and Tina, no question, were both VERY smart people, and that the million could be won by somebody of Kim P.s "ability" is more than a little unsettling, I know. But it COULD happen. She's likable, affable. She seems to have charmed the men. Oh, and another bitter Kelly quote from US WEEKLY that might mean something in the next ep. or two, Kim P. "likes older men." Hmmmm... I'll look for that OS vs. OB Final 2 quote from Kelly. As far as the MB's or Jeff Probst's saying "the two least likely" I read that on SS, and many there asked the same question. "Where was it from?" Every wanted chapter and verse of the interview, and I don't think ANY body has yet to come up with EXACTLY where one of the two of them said it. Rose Red(Herring) PS: IF Kelly is on SS as "Colleenlover", I thought her saying re: the Immunity, "We just watch the same jerk winning it week after week, like the last times" was priceless. And indicates that Lex can't be stopped. But judging by Frank's remark to EW, Lex's "alliance is crumbling." So maybe "Colleenlover" isn't Kelly. Oh God! Now I'm spoiling other spoilers! Help!   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-27-01, 01:53 AM (EST) 26. "Ayak! OFG! I found Kelly's quote" AyaK, I found Kelly's quote. It was from a RADIO show in San Diego, which can be accessed very easily by clicking on the headline "Kelly on the Jeff and Jer Show." This is still up on Survivorfever.net, but won't be for long, as its now at the bottom of their page. It's an AUDIO clip which is why her tone of voice saying this struck me, about the OB. The question they asked her was who would she give the million dollars to?(In other words, "Who won?" Or "Who did you vote for?"} And she says "That's hard..." and obviously doesn't want to answer it. They ask her again and she says,"Well, I have a problem with giving ANYbody a million dollars. But I would not give it to any of the people who voted against me. I would give it to one the Samburu people, someone who helped me," I'm paraphrasing here. This isn't exactly word for word. And then she says quite clearly, "I would give it to someone like Frank, or Teresa or KIM POWERS. Yeah, I would definitely give it to one of them. Frank, Teresa, KIM POWERS." They press her about her old tribe, the Boron, and she slurs her words here,and drops her voice, trying not to be intelligible. And the only thing I could clearly hear was that she kind of tartly said, "I wouldn't give to one of THEM! They voted me off!" And there you have it. Listen to it. It may be me but I think she listed the OS in the order in which they are perhaps booted, or last. 1) Frank 2)Teresa 3) Kim Powers But also, I felt she emphasized the words KIM POWERS. She hit them a little too hard, I thought. With just a tinge of enthusiasm, like she was trying to tell us something. She also raves on and on about what a nice person Frank is and how she thought he was this "aloof nut" because of what the younger Samburus were saying about him. She obviously spent A LOT of time with Frank. This we now know to be the case. She seemed pretty pissed at Brandon,but not THAT pissed(cuz she knew he was following her out of the game) but she did really seem pissed, again at Lex, and VERY pissed at Mamakim, whose name she could barely say. Ethan she thought was aloof. It's a very interesting interview. She doesn't seem so intent on spoiling, spoiling, spoiling here and she doesn't seem to be outright lying like she seemed to be on the Early Show. This, I think, is the real Kelly here on this local San Diego show and she's telling us the truth. God! Kim Powers could really win this! OR, re-reading this all again, before posting, this may be what she WANTED to do, but couldn't because the F2 are two OB that she has negative feelings about, Ethan and MK? Lex and MK? She obviously ADORES Tom, but doesn't seem to imply that he was one of "those people" that she HAD to vote for. If it WAS Lex and MK, how pleasant a choice is THAT for Kelly? If it was Ethan and MK, I guess it's pretty clear she'd vote for Ethan. So maybe being the sobersided. objective journalist I purport to be, the Samburu list are the people she would've LIKED TO HAVE voted for, but couldn't because they didn't make it. However, no matter what you may think of this spoiler, I do think she inadvertently listed the final Samburu boot order. Frank(we know to be true), Teresa,(whose name she pronounced warmly) and KIM POWERS. Perhaps they all go before the F2, but Kim Powers is the last one out. If indeed she leaves at all. She also doesn't call her by any nickname, she gives her name its full weight, KIM POWERS. Everyone else just gets a first name, and she can't even say MamaK's name at all, without stumbling. Hmmmm.... Maybe Ethan and MK are the F2 after all...OFG, you may get your wish after all... AyaK, I'm glad you made me find this. It's very illuminating. Kelly actually sounds likeable and relaxed here and not speeding her brains out like on the Early Show.   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-26-01, 10:42 PM (EST) 21. "Lex's target ------> Tom" A) More reasons to think Lex jump ships During the "Food Auction" alliances were laid bare. This was mentioned by CBS Promo's and by Lex himself. So what alliances were shown specifically? 1) Ethan/Tom - I've got to think this makes Lex A LITTLE NERVOUS if he thinks about it very much. The alliance WAS SUPPOSE TO BE 1Lex/2Tom/3Ethan/4MammaKim. 2) Tbird/Frank - No surprise there, but Tbird is a free agent now that Frank is gone. 3) Painfully obvious KimP has no alliance. Lex is smart enough to know, I think, if the final 3 comes down to Lex/Tom/Ethan that there is a STRONG possibility Tom or Ethan will choose to bring the other to the Final 2 ie. NOT LEX. So Tbird would sell her soul for and alliance that keeps her alive. Lex needs a new alliance. His gut trusts Tbird. Tbird has no ties to KimP. Lex cast his lot with Tbird & KimP THIS WEEK. B) reasons to think Lex stays in the game - Swami, you speculated that Boran turns on Lex & cuts him out of the herd this week as with Jerri in SII, but I don't see this happening. Sure it happened in SII, but Tina was driving the bus then. Lex has been driving the bus in SIII, and I just don't think MammaKim, Ethan, or Tom have shown the leadership or the killer instinct to turn on their own tribe member. (I still think the idea to throw the IC to oust Silas was Tbirds idea, not Ethan or MammaKims). Too Swami, let me point out (I think it was discussed for about 3 minutes on this board several weeks ago) that in the opening sequence showing all the players, right after Jessies intro, there is a one or 2 frame shot of Lex buried, very much like Colby last season. (and we know Colby made the final 2). To The Wanderer - I agree I think, that the cool reception Kellys call to Lex got indicate that Lex and Kelly never had a chance to reconcile at Looser Lodge, and frankly I'm expecting at this point for Lex to make the final 2 and for Kelly to give a Soozan type speach full of SNAKE refrences. I disagree with you in thinking that Tbird gets the ax because I don't think the "Master Manipulator" tag has been played out yet so she has to stay. In conjunction with the point above, Kelly mentioned per AyaK's post that: ...He went through this emotional transition when we got to Samburu. Before that he was a happy-go-lucky guy... If Kelly spent much time at all at loser lodge with Lex she should have seen the return of the "happy-go-lucky guy" and made up, or realized the "happy-go-lucky guy" was just a front, and that the "evil Lex" was the real Lex. c) Why Lex targets Tom We've seen comments from Tom that Lex joined with Brandon because he was worried Kelly would join with the Sambura to oust Lex. ie he was just trying to save his own skin. Now Tom thinks Lex has some answering to do to Ethan and Tom. I don't think Lex is going to take very well to Tom thinking he has something to answer for. Also, if Lex does jump ship to Sambura he will probably not tell Boran. So Boran would target Tbird or KimP. Lex/Tbird/KimP would probably target Tom due to his multiple prior votes. It's the surest way to win the tie breaker, as well as it gets rid of the guy who's challenged him (only room for 1 alpha male). Although it's not a reason for Lex to target Tom, a Tom ouster continues Kelly's "fun at the lodge" spoiler. Per Ayak's post: ...Now on to the juicy stuff! Let's see...Tom. Tom is very, very funny. He kept everyone laughing. Even a normal story told by Tom was really hilarious... Too, Tom was friendly with Frank, as well as with Brandon. It's not hard for me to imagine Tom being the conduit thru whom Kelly becomes friends with both Frank and Brandon. In fact I'd argue he's a better ambassador than Tbird (who would hang with Frank) or KimP (who would hang with Brandon). I think the Good Old Boy Red Neck image Tom has been painted with by many of the SB members has been in many ways unfairly applied. We saw in the Filler Clips that Tom didn't have any problems with Brandon and even seemed to like "Sugar Butt". Too, while many members of SB have been offended by Tom and thought he was a sexist and/or a dirty old man, the woman of SIII seem to like Tom just fine. To Outfrontgirl my counter arguement to Kim Powers going now is the following: People tend to blame others even for their own mistakes, so I don't think KimP will realize her ouster is due to HER failure to make up with Brandon. Rather, She will continue to blame Brandon until a better scapegoat comes along. So, if Kim Powers has forgiven Brandon, I think it means she found a better scapegoat (like she makes the final 3 and Tbird takes Lex to the final 2).   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-26-01, 11:51 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Lex's target ------> Tom" Just to add my observation re. the relationship between Kim P and Brandon: In my opinion Kim P. had an epiphany of sorts when Brandon went against Samburu to vote off Kelly, she realized that the one person she was counting on and trusting had cut her loose and she was alone in the game. I believe she accepted what Brandon had told her prior to his being voted off, about how it pained him that she was angry with him and he was sorry and so on, and at that point repairing their friendship became essentially a matter of time and of letting bygones be bygones. She was still left alone in the game, however, and voted for Brandon knowing she could not reteam with him and have any security. In other words, I don't think there is that much standing between them and their friendship, they could easily take care of that even if the only time they have to do it would be during the wrap party. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-27-01, 00:50 AM (EST) 24. "Brandon's reasoning" And Kim P. is perhaps the recipient of $100,000 to $1,000,000! That would be NO problema for Brandon.   Top

Naked 887 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Fitness Correspondent" 12-27-01, 02:13 AM (EST) 27. "RE: Lex's target ------> Tom" Mavsfan, Excellent post. I think that your logic is pretty sound in the assumption that Lex could jump ship to T/KP, but I don't think that it is a possibility. The only way for this theory to work is if Lex has immunity again. If he does not have immunity, he will lose in a 3-3 tie with Tom. Lex has been open with all of his decisions. This is something that I personally admire about him, although I believe that it has hurt his game. I don't see him as trying to sneak into a new alliance now, because the only thing that he can say at the end game to win would be that he played the game straight the whole time. If he joined a new alliance, he could not say this. I also don't think he wins immunity this week. This weeks IC picks show that Tom is gunning for him. It is saying this in an unobvious way. We, as avid fans remember last years county fair plate shoot, and would know the significance of Tom hitting Lex's pot in an IC challange, but the avererage veiwer would not. They would just see another game being played. Therefore, he is not "Spoiling" the show for the average veiwer, but we know what this means. In the IC picks of the tribe walking to tribal council, we don't see that big ugly necklace on Lex also. I know that it is a far away shot, and it is possible for it to be hidden behind a bush, but after close examination, I don't think that it is on him. My official pick this week is Theresa, but my "Gut" is telling me that Lex goes. I think that the wisest decision for the tribe to make would be to keep him in hopes of him sitting next to you in the final 2, but these people have not played very wise this year. It probably has something to do with the African sun and Amoebic dysentary. Naked   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-27-01, 03:24 AM (EST) 30. "RE: Lex's target ------> Tom" <<The only way for this theory to work is if Lex has immunity <<again. If he does not have immunity, he will lose in a 3-3 tie <<with Tom. This is correct assuming the Boran know to vote against Lex. So I'm assuming that Lex DOESN'T pull Tom aside and tell him "I'm voting with Sambura against YOU tonight". I'm assuming Lex will let Ethan/Tom/MammaKim think the plan is to vote against Tbird, or Kim Powers - Both of whom beat Tom in a prior vote tie breaker. <<Lex has been open with all of his decisions. This is something <<that I personally admire about him, although I believe that it <<has hurt his game. I too thought taking Clarence and then Kelly aside and telling them "tonights your night" was gutsy/admirable (and very dangerous). But that is a strategic gamble, not a requirement. I didn't see him go to Brandon and tell him "Bud, I've done all I can for you, but your out of here tonight." or go to Frank and tell him "Pack your bags, it's your turn." Maybe those "Man to Man" chat's did take place with Brandon and Frank and we just didn't see them. However, it's also possible he's only been doing the "Man to Man" chat's with his fellow Boran figuring it would give him a slight advantage with the final Jury should the final 2 be Lex vs Any Boran. In other words, if Lex decides to jump ship so the final 2 comes down to him and Kim P (his 1st choice) or him and Tbird I don't think he would tip his hand to Boran. I think Lex could beat Kim P against the jury. He would run the risk of the Boran's on the jury voting against him for betrayal, but I think he could make a decent arguement that He PLAYED THE GAME while Kim P just "showed up" and that he deserves to win more than she does. He would have a much more difficult time beating Tbird I think, but being in the final 2 with Kim P or Tbird atleast gives him a CHANCE to win the $1,000,000. If he sticks with Boran there's a good chance he doesn't do better than 4th (barring immunity wins). How funny would that be, that the Jock Ethan was worried about Silas and Clarence and this little skinny tattood rocker dude stands in the way of Ethan going on an immunity run like Kelly and Colby.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-27-01, 01:49 AM (EST) 25. "Accurate quotes, a good thing if we can get it..." LAST EDITED ON 12-27-01 AT 02:15 AM (EST) A couple quick comments on the quotes that are getting repeated, because I think it's important to keep quotes as accurate as possible and remember the context... 1) Teresa is a Master manipulator. Here is the quote from Kelly's Chat. If anyone got the master manipulator line from another source, I hope you will post and set me right. -------------------------------- Q: How do you feel being titled by some as the "snake" or "the manipulator" of this season's cast? Kelly Goldsmith: I think most people who watch the show would agree that I actually didn't end up being much of either one; at least I hope so. I played up the whole manipulator thing because I thought being controversial would help a kind of wimpy girl get on SURVIVOR in the first place. Competing with people like Brandon, Lex and Teresa, I think it would be hard for me to earn the title of "The Manipulator." So we can see that somehow the legend has grown to add "Master" to the phrase, so we have extra high expectations. And we can also notice that Teresa is last on the list of three and not singled out. I tend to read the series as descending in hierarchy, but in any case, we already have a gauge as to Brandon's level of "manipulation," so that may give us a point of comparison for Teresa. Brandon succeeded in the very short run only. There is no reason to take this quote as an indicator that Teresa is Tina II, but she may well do more than she's managed to date, IMHO. 2) Kelly's quote about who she would vote for, first discussed by Rose Red above. I heard a quote along these lines in the San Diego Jeff and Jerr show radio interview; the link should still be on SurvivorFever.net. She did not say she had a choice between Boran and a Samburu. She doesn't talk about her actual choices--of course not--she said she would find it hard to vote for someone who backstabbed/betrayed her. Then she went down the list of remaining players and talked about who fell into that category. She would vote for any of the Samburu because they didn't betray her, well, Teresa "lied a little" but was OK. And she didn't know about Brandon until later. Then she started to do Boran, and said that Ethan and Tom didn't betray her although technically they helped vote her out, which left Lex and KimJ, but she wasn't able to address them because the interviewer cut her off and changed tracks. We know from elsewhere that she thinks those two betrayed her. The only real conclusion I got was that she would NOT vote for Lex or KimJ. She did not say--of course--whether she had to deal with one or both of them as a choice. Personally, I thought she was listing the Samburu three of Frank, Brandon, and KimP first because they were the three she most wished had had a chance, and she was enjoying imagining that any of them made it. My instinct told me she had to choose from 2 Old Boran. Listen to the interview yourselves and see what you think. 3) The Jeff P and Mark B quotes cited by Rose Red that floated around ss.com. I think we have to be wary of quotes that aren't exact and where no one ever came up with the source. We can be pretty sure they have gotten distorted even if they were ever reliable quotes. I remember that Jeff said the first bootee was obvious in Ep 1 and got their face time--he didn't say anything about the winners being featured at the beginning that I heard. Sounds very unlikely that he would. Burnett said the first five minutes was the best ever--nothing about the winners, just that the drama was incredible. (??? Still wondering what he meant!!!) I suspect those quotes mutated from poster to poster... I don't want to impugn your memory, Rose Red, especially when you've said you are a reporter, but I do think we need to have exact quotes from which to launch speculation. In that spirit--I recommend that anyone interested in Kelly's quote about her vote preferences should listen to the Kelly radio interview and NOT work from my paraphrase alone, because I just wrote from memory of what I listened to two weeks ago! The "Manipulator" quote, however, is pasted verbatim from CBS.com.   Top

Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 12-27-01, 02:17 AM (EST) 28. "RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing if we can get it..." Boy, OFG, did we both post AT THE SAME TIME or what? Amazing! I was writing to you, what you were writing to me. As my sainted mother used to say, "Noble minds run down the same drain." And yes, I think your analysis is the correct one. Of COURSE, she couldn't say who she voted for! It was who she WISHED she could've voted for! And she didn't get the chance. However, whether or not Kim Powers makes the final two, she's certainly hovering near it and gets closer to it than any of her other teammates. She could be like an Elizabeth last time out. She did make the Final Four, even though she was from the otherwise doomed Kucha tribe. And yes, things DO get repeated and repeated until the become fact, like over at SS. I realize their is a BIG difference between these two boards. And they do tend to cite things MB and Jeff P. are supposed to have said like "The least likely people are the Final Two" and "The Final Two are in the first fifteen minutes of Episode One." EVERYBODY was in the first fifteen minutes of Episode One And also "The answer is in the Great Gatbsy." Where did they say these things? Nowhere? In the fevered spoilers' imagination on SS? And Surviiivor? Thank you for straightening this out. Of course, Kelly couldn't come right out and say who she voted for. Didn't she ROLE HER EYES when Regis asked her this and made a face? Not having TV or a very clear Realplayer on my computer it's hard to tell. But people thought she was implying she didn't like the winners. Anyway, I'm glad that we are now on the same page...as it were. The editor of my paper would TOTALLY agree with you. Accurate quotes are EVERYTHING.   Top

Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-27-01, 02:59 AM (EST) 29. "RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing if we can get it..." LOL Rose Red, at the synchronicity! Well put on your part, and thank you again for all the nice things you say to me! I agree that Kim P could be like an Elisabeth. Or an Amber (which would be this episode). Remember how everyone knew they couldn't let Lis get to the Final 3 cause she could possibly win IC and slip through and win? I don't think I'm biased against Kim so much as pretty sure that the people with alliances won't let her get there. Very quickly we will see the game shift from worry about IC threats to worries about a likeable Samburu, i.e. Tbird or Kim, making it to the Final 2. Therefore I expect to see a move to get rid of them so that the jury can only choose from Old Boran. Despite their fans' wishes, Colleen, Lis, and Amber failed to escape from the determination of the less likeable power players to weed them out, and I don't expect to see it now. (although we have the UK example of Charlotte.) Like Colleen, Kim has no real friends left and she's almost the last of her kind. I know, the game is supposed to evolve beyond its original pattern, but I think a known winning strategy appeals more than a wild switch of allegiance. What we call interesting TV, the Survivor players call RISKY. Conflict of interest there...   Top

mavsfan 693 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-27-01, 04:27 AM (EST) 31. "RE: Accurate quotes, a good thing if we can get it..." Thanks for finding the actual "manipulator" line. I went back to see where I got the "Master" from. Last week in your post regarding Kelly and Franks quality time I made the arguement that Tbird would make a good boot candidate for the week to serve as ambassador for Kelly and Frank establishing a friendship. One poster stated Tbird couldn't leave yet the "master manipulator" tag hadn't come to pass yet. I without doubt got it from there, so I'm appreciative that you were able and willing to go back and search out the original text. Now I fear people who have read MY POSt will pick up the master manipulator tag.   Top

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