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Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:10 AM (EST) "Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" LAST EDITED ON 05-10-05 AT 10:21 AM (EST) Anyone up for a discussion about Bush and Blair and their little decision in the summer of 2002? A Memo was recently leaked, and it looks pretty nasty. Memogate Did the Administration deliberately manipulate intelligence to deceive the American people about the strength of its case for war? Rep. John Conyers has garnered 88 signatures asking for an explanation from the White House regarding the memo. In a nutshell: • Prime Minister Tony Blair chaired a July 2002 meeting, at which he discussed military options, having already committed himself to supporting President Bush’s plans for invading Iraq. • British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw acknowledged that the case for war was "thin" as "Saddam was not threatening his neighbours and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea, or Iran." • A separate secret briefing for the meeting said that Britain and America had to "create" conditions to justify a war. • A British official "reported on his recent talks in Washington. There was a perceptible shift in attitude. Military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5996 The Memo is here. Some suggest impeachment is in order for Mr. Bush. The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch? ETA: tags   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... newsomewayne 05-10-05 1    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... mrc 05-10-05 2        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Swami 05-10-05 3        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Draco Malfoy 05-11-05 111    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... frisky 05-10-05 4  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 5  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... landruajm 05-10-05 6    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 7        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 30            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 33  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... iatovttotx78 05-10-05 8    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... newsomewayne 05-10-05 10        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Swami 05-10-05 11            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SurvivaBear 05-10-05 12            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... newsomewayne 05-10-05 15        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... iatovttotx78 05-10-05 58  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SurvivaBear 05-10-05 9    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... FesterFan1 05-10-05 13        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SurvivaBear 05-10-05 14            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 18            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 21                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... KeithFan 05-10-05 97                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 99            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 31                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Spidey 05-10-05 67  wait a minute! moonbaby 05-10-05 16    RE: wait a minute! Swami 05-10-05 24  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 17    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 19        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 20            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 22                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 23                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 32                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... dabo 05-10-05 34                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 38  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Bobdechemist 05-10-05 25    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 26    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 27        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 29            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Bobdechemist 05-10-05 68                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 72                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 73                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 74                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 77                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SurvivaBear 05-10-05 75                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 76                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... AZ_Leo 05-10-05 78                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 81                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Spidey 05-10-05 85                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 94                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SherpaDave 05-10-05 96        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Bobdechemist 05-10-05 37            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Swami 05-10-05 45        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... SurvivaBear 05-10-05 54            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 62    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 42  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 28    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 35    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 36        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 39            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 40                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 41                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 43                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 44                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 47                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 49                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... landruajm 05-10-05 69                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 59                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 63                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 65                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... landruajm 05-10-05 70                                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... desert_rhino 05-10-05 71                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Surveysez 05-10-05 51                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 53                                Great Article! Devious Weasel 05-10-05 60                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 46                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 48                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 50                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 55                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 57                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 61                                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 64                                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 66                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 52  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Silvergirl1 05-10-05 56  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... cahaya 05-10-05 79    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 82        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... cahaya 05-10-05 84            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 86                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 88                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 90                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Devious Weasel 05-10-05 91                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 92                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 93                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 98                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 101                                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 102                                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 103                                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 104                                                    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 105                                                        RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 106                                                            RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Gothmog 05-10-05 107                                                                RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Wheezy 05-10-05 108    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Bobdechemist 05-10-05 83    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... J I M B O 05-10-05 87    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... mrc 05-10-05 89    RE: Creating conditions to justify ... TechNoir 05-10-05 100  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Estee 05-10-05 80  Understatment of the whole memo: HobbsofMI 05-10-05 95  An update straight from Iraq on how... HobbsofMI 05-11-05 109    RE: An update straight from Iraq on... Wheezy 05-11-05 112        RE: An update straight from Iraq on... desert_rhino 05-11-05 113            RE: An update straight from Iraq on... Wheezy 05-11-05 115        RE: An update straight from Iraq on... HobbsofMI 05-11-05 114  RE: Creating conditions to justify ... Femme 05-11-05 110

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newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:14 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Don't know if I can do the deep end discussion on this, but can we have a side discussion on why now, any new scandal that comes up has to have the suffix -gate attached to it. I hate this. Anybody else? Exorcised by Syren, 2005   Top

mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:17 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I just want to know if anyone saw W's dancing on the news. The guy has rhythm, my friends, rhythm! A Nefarious Dice Creation   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:20 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" This dance was the first time GW made a move I appreciated. Obviously--he missed his calling. Hi Wheezy! I have to work today.   Top

Draco Malfoy 10525 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 08:05 AM (EST) 111. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" That was my Moment of Zen. "The radio business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:22 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Ah, yes, gate-loathing, also known as gategate. The world is my litterbox.   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:25 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Surely you jest. Our glorious leader is a paragon, I tell you, a PARAGON.   Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:26 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Why are you worrying your pretty little cocker spaniel head over deep-end stuff, sugar? You just get back in the kitchen and let the menfolk handle it, mmkay?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:51 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" woof. The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:41 PM (EST) 30. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Is "woof" another way to say "sure do enjoy humping your leg" ? "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." John F. Kennedy   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:45 PM (EST) 33. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I think Urban Dictionary describes it as "look at that dawg who's about to post. Boyoboy, she's mean." The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

iatovttotx78 2645 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 11:00 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" >Some suggest impeachment is in order >for Mr. Bush. This, I'd like to see... ~Tim~ We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are. Snookery people do snookery things.   Top

newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 11:13 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Why should he be impeached? It's not like he had sex in the oval office with Tony Blair. Exorcised by Syren, 2005 I've got my stick. Now I'm just looking for a dead horse.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 11:23 AM (EST) 11. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Look up, Wayne. The dead horse is italicised in your post.   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 11:31 AM (EST) 12. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I thought that 9the italicised part) was what he was talking about. Honestly, i think the two are compareable. We had eighteen months of information like this. About 51% of Americans apparently do not care.   Top

newsomewayne 9353 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 11:55 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Why should he be impeached? It's not like he had sex in the oval office with Tony Blair. Better? Exorcised by Syren, 2005 It was just a joke.   Top

iatovttotx78 2645 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 01:13 PM (EST) 58. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I didn't mean that they should impeach the Shrub, only that it'd be fun to see them try... ~Tim~ What's wrong with sex in the oval office. And my understanding of things is that it wasn't the sex, persay, that they attempted to impeach Clinton for. It was lying about it under oath.....   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 11:04 AM (EST) 9. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" First, I thought Knight Rider was David Hasselhoff's old car. Secondly, This is OLD NEWS. Basically, we are talking about people's perceptions. We will never truly know what was in the mind/heart of GWB/Tony Blair leading up to the decision to go into Iraq. They were interpreting the data through thier own lenses/mindset. Was that view skewed? Sure! Just like everyone's view is skewed to some extent. For those who see evil motives behind every action of GWB, this is just more evidence. For those who feel we did the right thing going into Iraq, this memo means nothing. I do not see the point of beating this dead, old horse.   Top

FesterFan1 5947 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 11:37 AM (EST) 13. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" It's not old news if this latest wrinkle is true. There's a difference between bad intel and made up intel. The former is incompetence, the latter is lying. Y'know, the same thing ol' Willie got impeached for. Only this is a much bigger deal...allegedly, of course. Fester   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 11:53 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I suppose it would be helpful to read the actual memo before I comment futher. However, it appears like more of the same to me. Some MI6 guy is telling Blair, "It seems like GWB has a hard-on for Saddam. He is interpreting this intelligence data in a totally different way." (paraphrase)   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:08 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Yeah, it probably would be helpful. This is new information.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:22 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" No, the memo doesn't say that intelligence is being interpreted in a certain way. It says: {i]But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. In other words, the policy (invasion of Iraq) was already deterimined and the intelligence and facts were being manipulated to support the policy. As Fester points out, that's vastly different from saying intelligence is being interpreted incorrectly. Further, this memo and this meeting took place in July 2002, at a time when the American public was still being told by the President that war could be averted if Iraq met certain conditions. I assume your earlier reference to 51% was a reference to Bush's percentage of the vote. Considering that support for the war now hovers around the mid-40s, shouldn't that be the relevant figure right now?   Top

KeithFan 7422 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 06:58 PM (EST) 97. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Seems to me it's the old saying, "Hope for peace, prepare for war". I don't have a problem with them preparing to go to war with anyone, that's it, making plans. Hussein could have avoided all of that by complying with the UN resolutions. I think we are losing sight of that.   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 07:06 PM (EST) 99. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" If "fixing facts and intelligence to the policy" is "hope for peace, prepare for war," I think you need to make a Keithfan/Bushspeak==>English dictionary available for those of us who only speak the latter. I will note that I asked for similar clarification during the "what the meaning of is is" debate (in another venue, of course).   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:43 PM (EST) 31. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You musta forgot where you were posting there. We are the crowd that reads the original documents and makes folks provide evidence. Rough crowd, we are Go read it. It's uglier that even we thought.   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:24 PM (EST) 67. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" It's uglier that even we thought. Speak for yourself. I've pretty much suspect as much all along. Shame, shame, shame on them (the administration). They are personally, morally responsible for every loss of life in Iraq. And shame on anybody who thinks this is ok.   Top

moonbaby 17120 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 11:56 AM (EST) 16. "wait a minute!" Meemo leaked? Is he ok?   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:28 PM (EST) 24. "RE: wait a minute!" LOL Moonie! That one made my day!   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:07 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" The funniest part of this is the predictability of the response. Unless, of course, you count the nauseating jingoism, 'cause that's pretty funny, too.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:09 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" So what's your prediction, JV? The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:20 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" "but Clinton banged an intern in the Oval Office" "It wasn't LYING, it was just a selective interpretation of the data" "[I haven't read the memo, but] This is just some Liberal with an axe to grind" "Okay so it was lying, but it doesn't change anything" "Oh, so you think the Iraqi people should have had to remain under Saddam's bootheel?" "If you don't like it here, maybe you should go live somewhere else." Did I miss any steps?   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:23 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You forgot "You're unpatriotic and you hate America." "How can you not support the troops?"   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:25 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Thanks, man. I knew I was missing one or two.   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:44 PM (EST) 32. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Also "But Iraq is better off"   Top

dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:45 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" "Need some wood?"   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:51 PM (EST) 38. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I took that to be covered under "Oh, so you think the Iraqi people should have had to remain under Saddam's bootheel?"   Top

Bobdechemist 3932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-10-05, 12:35 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I also didn't read the memo, but I'm still not entirely convinced that Bush wasn't behind 9/11. He and his oil and weapons cronies ceratinly benifited from it more than anyone else did. I doubt he would be president if it weren't for that. I probably could be convinced if it weren't for the fact that everyone else who believes that is a raving lunitic who sends out emails loaded with factually incorrect information (ie lies). > As for helping the Iraqis? How about helping out in Rwanda, Sudan, Ivory Coast, Tibet, East Timor (Ok, I know the UN got around to that one)etc... hmmmm...Maybe it's because they are all DIRT POOR and have no OIL.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:37 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Now you've done it. No no no...didn't you hear? Iran is next. Slated for June. Wheeze * lunch?   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:38 PM (EST) 27. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I also didn't read the memo, but Okay, I have just one thing to ask here: Why?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:41 PM (EST) 29. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" What...you think people actually read those things? Those links up in my first post go to ebay and virtual pet. (methinks bob needed to spout, and she didn't want to start a new thread, cuz she's trying to get mine locked. She sneaky, the Bob. ) The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Bobdechemist 3932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-10-05, 01:29 PM (EST) 68. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" LAST EDITED ON 05-10-05 AT 02:55 PM (EST) I read the memo. Yeah, I knew all that. They wanted to go to war. They pushed the war. There were other countries to go to war with. They wanted to invade Iraq. They invaded Iraq. They killed a bunch of people, flexed some military muscles and probebly got some nookie. edited to add: The hostility in this post is all directed towards the bushes and shrubs, non towards the adorable wheeze (unless she morphs into freaky clown head wheeze, of course)   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:56 PM (EST) 72. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" you know I was only teasing you, right bob? *smooch* and just a general comment to all-- The significance of this memo is that 8 months before Blair and Bush got approval to declare war, the had secretly agreed to do so, and to 'make sure it happened'. Each leader lied, and lied, and lied some more. For eight months. It went so far that shortly before the war was declared, the US said 'we'll go to war without Britain if we have to.' What a setup. What kind of man is this president of ours; he is bloodthirsty, and set this whole thing up so that he could be some sort of war hero. He had so much fun with the death penalty in TX that he must have more? All the lies...how can anyone trust a thing this guy says or does? It makes me cry that he calls himself a Christian. He is a bad man. *Allegedly/in my opinion, wherever the tags are necessary. of course. The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 02:00 PM (EST) 73. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Psst. Is that any way to talk about Operation Inigo Montoya?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 02:09 PM (EST) 74. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Last I heard, Inigo's papa was alive and well with the Clenis.   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 02:44 PM (EST) 77. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I am so proud.   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 02:19 PM (EST) 75. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You see things your way, I see a man with firm convictions. He saw Saddam as an evil man, a cancer that continued to infect and inflame the Middle East. The Prez did all he could do to remove him and the world is better for it. You say he lied, I say he made the case in the best way he could. In the end, I still say this is only a "smoking gun" to those who have already convicted him. So he was planning take out Saddam in 2000, or 1999, or 1992? So what? Saddam is out of power and Bush is re-elected.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 02:37 PM (EST) 76. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Then that's the case that should have been made to the American public. But it wasn't. The case made to the American public was that we were in danger of attack if Saddam was left in power. And that was obviously untrue.   Top

AZ_Leo 3526 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-10-05, 03:35 PM (EST) 78. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" "I see a man with firm convictions" What convictions? If he really had firm convictions about removing tyrants and dictators who torture, suppress, and murder their own people then why hasn't he invaded other countries like, I don't know, Saudi Arabia? His (and his advisors) convictions were to get rid of someone who caused them great embarrassement in the original gulf war and they didn't care how many of their own and others had to die to do it. They wanted to invade Iraq one way or another whether 9/11 happened or not. I don't believe they were directly involved but they certainly took advantage to further their own personal goals.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 03:56 PM (EST) 81. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" SBear, you're an historian, right? What are the rules under which a president may declare war on another country? So a president can target one man and his country because he believes the man is evil and a cancer that continues to inflame a portion of the world. He may make a case in the best way he can by altering intelligence information and creating false fear and frenzy in the minds of his own country's people to get their support. And in the process, thousands and thousands of innocent lives are killed -- the same lives that were 'inflamed' are now dead, plus more than 1600 US Soldiers. And thousands severely injured. And all the rest of those serving the US with potentially long-term effects on their own health and minds. Using your terms, if our next president feels the same way about, say, Pat Roberson, would it be justifiable for him to go after Pat in the same manner? The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Spidey 6259 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 04:36 PM (EST) 85. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You say he lied, I say he made the case in the best way he could. Yeah, by lying. He manipulating the facts to justify his pursuit of war in Iraq and has thereby caused untolled damage, destruction and death. But I do agree with you that he has "conviction." Unfortunately, his conviction is not based on what is just and proper, but rather getting what he wants regardless of cost or legality. The man is a war criminal, plain & simple.   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:23 PM (EST) 94. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" See? You're jumping around in there. It makes it hard to keep track when you've kinda got both #2 and #4 covered in there. Well, and the "axe to grind" one. Dammit, how am I supposed to keep track of which stage we're in?   Top

SherpaDave 8326 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 06:44 PM (EST) 96. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I see a man with firm convictions. By which I assume you mean prior convictions... Dave writes † Dave edits † Dave blogs   Top

Bobdechemist 3932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-10-05, 12:50 PM (EST) 37. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" LAST EDITED ON 05-10-05 AT 12:51 PM (EST) Because I already believe that Bush and his my little pony sidekick Blair are a bunch of power hungry, glory seeking lyers that I just can't bear to hear more about it. I heard Bush for 2 minutes on T.V. saying that "all the insurgents in Iraq prefer tryranny to democracy" and I just about killed the television. Yes, that's it, all those people in Iraq want to live in a tyranny rather than a democracy! I think the people in Iraq would just like to get the power turned back on in Baghdad, the murder rate to go back down to the Saddam years, the child mortality rate and literacy to go to the pre first Gulf war days. What a lot people don't realize is life is NOT better for the Iraqis now than it was under Saddam. They have a theoretical democracy (that is losing ministers left, right and centre), but they have less freedom, less luxeries, less water, less gas and more bombs and death and illegal arrests now(A lot of Iraqis do believe it will get better) Some people just want the Americans to leave their country. Think what would happen if France decided that Bush was dictator after the previous election and had invaded. Maybe some American would have blown up a few Frenchies? > I knew I shouldn't have even opened this thread when I saw the title. My poor blood pressure.   Top

Swami 5885 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:01 PM (EST) 45. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" My Little Pony? You know, he does kind of look like one of those. ...and agree on the rant stuff.   Top

SurvivaBear 2634 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-10-05, 01:07 PM (EST) 54. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Okay, where oh where is the actual memo? I went to Wheezy's link and read the editorial, but where is the actual memo? I mean, did you expect Bob and I to google it or something?   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:20 PM (EST) 62. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I think you'll have your best chance of finding it by using the link "The memo is here." in Wheezy's initial post. YMMV   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:56 PM (EST) 42. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I'll agree with the premise that he would not have been re-elected President without it. I would also agree with the premise that it could have been prevented. But I don't think he had anything to do with it and I do think the reason it wasn't prevented was because no one in the new administration had the foresight to see that the world had changed so drastically that our main enemies were no longer states but terrorist groups.   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:40 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Will you marry me? (After I marry True, that is. I'm asking to be bigamously engaged.) "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." John F. Kennedy   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:48 PM (EST) 35. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" *looks around suspiciously* who, me? well, I'd better go edit post #33 then, huh. Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:50 PM (EST) 36. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Shouldn't that be bigaymously engaged?   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:54 PM (EST) 39. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" It should indeed. I stand corrected. "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." John F. Kennedy   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:55 PM (EST) 40. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I thought you were proposing. Shouldn't you be kneeling? The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:56 PM (EST) 41. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Some people aren't as hung up on convention as you are. Just sayin.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 12:57 PM (EST) 43. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" We're having a convention? OT Con 2005?   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 12:58 PM (EST) 44. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" And, according to JV, we get to hang somebody up during it. Oooh, maybe they could be the next Jesus!   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:02 PM (EST) 47. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Cool. I'm not going near the vendor booths though. They always rip you off.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:04 PM (EST) 49. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Especially ones that promote skeevy on-line gaming websites. I mean, really. What type of person would hawk those at a convention?   Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:33 PM (EST) 69. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" M/D/P One only slightly a cut above the type of person who visits the booth?   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:15 PM (EST) 59. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I fully expect you to stop by the chainmail vendor's booth. {meaningful glare} I hear he has cool things like this titanium and bronze pendant:   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:20 PM (EST) 63. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" jv, I don't often get serious, especially when I'm helping thread-jack one of Wheezy's deep-end ventures, but I have to say, you do some jaw-dropping things with maille, and I'm in totally awe (and envy) of your artistic talent. ok, back to your regularly scheduled threadjacking.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:23 PM (EST) 65. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Nice. Very, very nice.   Top

landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:35 PM (EST) 70. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I just want to know how the MSM gay librul agenda promoters got you to use that particular coin in the pic. Tres cool, JV.   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:37 PM (EST) 71. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" They bribed me. With sex. Well, with the promise of sex. Okay, okay, they sent me some pictures of Iraqi women baring their ankles. bastige.   Top

Surveysez 2793 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:05 PM (EST) 51. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" There already is a new Jesus: Jesus Christ in legal battle for West Virginia driver's licence > And according to his lawyer Christ is not speaking to the press at this time.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:06 PM (EST) 53. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I bet his brother's name is "Dammit"   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:16 PM (EST) 60. "Great Article!" I love some of these quotes: Christ is moving to West Virginia to enjoy a slower lifestyle. That and the couch burning. "Christ is not speaking to the press at this time," Pishevar said. I understand he refers people to his biography...   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:02 PM (EST) 46. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" What makes you think I wasn't at the time. Oh, well. I wasn't. I was afraid you'd confuse me with Buggy. Btw, I'm taking all this blather as a "no"   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:03 PM (EST) 48. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Hey! Don't insult Wheezy's blather!   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:05 PM (EST) 50. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Does the Wheezus have a blather infection?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:08 PM (EST) 55. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I'm afraid it's gone to my head.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:11 PM (EST) 57. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" <==is that why you're wearing this thing, then?   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:20 PM (EST) 61. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" It does look vaguely diaperish.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:22 PM (EST) 64. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" But I guess that Depends...   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 01:23 PM (EST) 66. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Some A&D ointment should help clear up that diaperash, shouldn't it?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:06 PM (EST) 52. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Wait! I'm just playing hard to get. Take me back! The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Silvergirl1 9342 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 01:08 PM (EST) 56. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I love this part: This record is extremely sensitive. No further copies should be made. It should be shown only to those with a genuine need to know its contents. Still reading it, and then I will decide whether to come over to the deep end discussion. Silvergirl Life is Good!   Top

cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 03:49 PM (EST) 79. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Having read the report and the memo, here are some excerpts and comments: Memo excerpt: It seemed clear that Bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided. But the case was thin. Saddam was not threatening his neighbours, and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran. ...The Attorney-General said that the desire for regime change was not a legal base for military action. There were three possible legal bases: self-defence, humanitarian intervention, or UNSC authorisation. The first and second could not be the base in this case. Relying on UNSCR 1205 of three years ago would be difficult. Bush tried all three legal bases: 1) "Self-defence" from the potential use of WMD's and terrorists and nation-states that harbor them. 2) "Humanitarian intervention" supposedly on behalf of the Iraqi people under a highly repressive (and deadly to the Kurds) regime. 3) UN Security Council resolutions and presentation by Powell. The first basis for self-defence didn't hold water then, and far less so in hindsight. The second basis may have been true, but there are dozens of repressive regimes still in existence, so why Iraq in particular? The third basis was not given UN sanction. The end result is that Bush, with Blair, unilaterally decided to invade Iraq, for the very reason that does not have a legal basis: Regime change. It was and still is my opinion that the U.S. had no justification for the invasion of Iraq. Moreover, I am of the opinion that the cost is far, far too high, not in terms of dollars, but in other terms. The human cost of the Iraq war is still mounting, and what we often do not see on the news reports is the number of civilian casualties, including women and children (estimated to be many times that of combatants). There is also the political cost, the least of which is the disenfranchised relationship between the U.S. and Europe. The U.S. has managed to alienate itself from most of the developing and third world countries, and (no surprise) most Islamic countries. Rumsfeld recently remarked openly that he wasn't sure if the U.S. was defeating more terrorists/insurgents than new ones that were joining and being trained. I believe that the Iraqi invasion unnecessarily added "fuel to the fire". It seems to me that it would have been far more effective and prudent to focus resources on successfully capturing Bin Laden and eliminating the remainder AlQueda network still in Afghanistan and Pakistan. (There was a very interesting interview on 'Meet the Press' on Sunday with the author of 'First One In' on this very issue). Will Bush be impeached? Forget it. Republicans have the majority in both houses. Should he be impeached? U.S. presidents in the past have gone to war for much flimsier reasons, so I see no precedent for impeachment here. Should so many innocent people die for one man's dream to democratize the world?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 04:09 PM (EST) 82. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Welcome to OT, Cahaya. (There was a very interesting interview on 'Meet the Press' on Sunday with the author of 'First One In' on this very issue). Was this the dood who was ordered to take BinLaden's head home packed in dry ice inside a cardboard box ? The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

cahaya 19891 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 04:26 PM (EST) 84. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Yup, that's him. And his reaction that order given to him was what, "We don't have any dry ice in Afghanistan." Bush's idea of a Christmas decoration: Bin Laden's head on the White House flagpole.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:04 PM (EST) 86. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I was trying to picture this guy walking into the Oval Office. "Here you are sir, bin laden's head. We took the turban off to save on shipping, but it's him all right." The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:12 PM (EST) 88. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You can save on shipping if you buy several terrorist's heads at once.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 05:13 PM (EST) 90. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" I guess there's more than one way to get a head in this world.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:14 PM (EST) 91. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" LAST EDITED ON 05-10-05 AT 05:16 PM (EST) Well we all know how much trouble it caused the last time a president got a little head in the oval office.   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 05:19 PM (EST) 92. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Ok, for the 10 millionth time, I give up. Again. Forever and eternity. dammit   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:22 PM (EST) 93. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" No! Don't quit while you're a head.   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 07:06 PM (EST) 98. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" You don't mean it this time either. How you doin' Mom?   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 08:32 PM (EST) 101. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" damn. she's on to me. jes fine, thanks for asking. Now, who are you, and what have you done with Tech.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 08:36 PM (EST) 102. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" the way this SHOULD HAVE gone: Tech: but gothmog doesn't really mean it Goth: does anybody wanna peanut? The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 08:39 PM (EST) 103. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" um, um, there's no crying in Baseball!! wait. wrong movie.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 08:42 PM (EST) 104. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" you're just trying to win points with me. I think that worked. The truly brave are soft of heart and eyes, And feel for what their duty bids them do. -Byron Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 08:48 PM (EST) 105. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" great! Um, how many points, exactly? not to seem like a brownnose or anything   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 08:53 PM (EST) 106. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" at least one but not more that two. (don't make me send you out into the hallway again)   Top

Gothmog 2886 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest" 05-10-05, 08:57 PM (EST) 107. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Yay. I think that puts me in the lead. you must have me mistaken for someone named Grendelsmom. I? am GotMom? Big difference.   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 10:53 PM (EST) 108. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Well, since you are the only one with any points, I'd say yes. I'm sorry...do I know you GotMom? ? Wheeze * lunch?   Top

Bobdechemist 3932 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-10-05, 04:22 PM (EST) 83. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" The bit about creating terrorists is intereresting. I have often thought that if you want to create terrorists, a really good way is to invade their country, throw anyone with any suspician of being a terrorist or in the wrong place into jail. Then torture them in jail. Great.. > I bet that every person in Iraq has at least one close family member who was killed, arrested, wounded or tortured by the Americans. I think it's amazing they aren't more upset.   Top

J I M B O 6839 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:08 PM (EST) 87. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Moreover, I am of the opinion that the cost is far, far too high, not in terms of dollars, but in other terms. I agree. While I supported the impeachment of a president who lied under oath, I fully admit that any 'cost' was a slippery slope at best (i.e. bad example for kids, blah blah blah). A freakin WAR though? That's a lot of lives. I'm shocked that whoever leaked this didn't do so before the election...if they had a choice that is.   Top

mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:13 PM (EST) 89. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Will Bush be impeached? Forget it. Republicans have the majority in both houses. Should he be impeached? U.S. presidents in the past have gone to war for much flimsier reasons, so I see no precedent for impeachment here. Agree. It won't happen. A Nefarious Dice Creation   Top

TechNoir 9741 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 07:09 PM (EST) 100. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Will Bush be impeached? Forget it. Republicans have the majority in both houses. Should he be impeached? U.S. presidents in the past have gone to war for much flimsier reasons, so I see no precedent for impeachment here. Will he be impeached? Not until after the 2006 elections. As for the precedent for impeachment, wasn't our last president impeached for lying? "If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich." John F. Kennedy   Top

Estee 57126 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 03:49 PM (EST) 80. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" President's head. Wall. Repeat.   Top

HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-10-05, 05:30 PM (EST) 95. "Understatment of the whole memo:" There was little discussion in Washington of the aftermath after military action. created by Syren   Top

HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 00:04 AM (EST) 109. "An update straight from Iraq on how are troops really feel." I just got back from my fishing club meeting and if you remember one of our members was called up and went to Iraq. Well he is back with no extra holes but he tore his shoulder so bad that they gave him a medical discharge. He did this by pulling one of his good friends out of a truck after it was hit by an RPG or IED, they never found out what, outside of Mosel (sp?). He was so glad to be home but he fears for all the soldiers that were still there. He said out of the 300 people in his Company about 5 have died and 55 injured from January of this year to April 15 when he was flown out. They told him he was not coming back and getting a medical so he left everything there because he never wants to remember this place. After he got home he looked up all the deaths of his Company members and saw that only one was reported due to combat and the other 4 were due to accidents. The accidents were RPG’s, IED’s, MG, grenades, etc. He then started to look at other people he knew from other units that died or had injuries and many of them are not being reported correctly. He said about 1 in 5 is reported right and that most of them are when camera or press people are there. He said the place is he!! on earth and he is so glad not to go back. All, repeat All, our troops moral is very low and they still don’t have the right supplies, we are going to ship another box of stuff to his Company this week after everyone gave up over $200 right than and there, and the stuff we sent they went threw in a week, and they scavenge for armor for their trucks, humvees, and themselves. The people that they made friends with when they first got there now hate them because of all the attacks and deaths of their own and so they blame the US for everything. They think the new government is a joke and a puppet of the US and all they do is try to stay protected in the green zone. We are not winning the hearts and minds of the people. They will not work on any projects to get the electricity and water back on because they get shot while they are working. He worries for all his friends still there until September, if that’s when they get to leave. One Company was all packed and on the tarmac when they were told to go back to a more dangerous place then where they were and lost 3 truck full of troop to and from the airport. Now tell him that W’s is a man of principal and convictions. Tell him that even though there was not immanent threat of attack from Iraq that it’s worth it to just get the dictator out of power. Tell him that when he had to pull only half of his buddy out a truck and watch him die that it’s worth it. Tell him that they made the Intel fit their plan that it’s worth it and ok. This war wrong from the start and W and his Hawks did it to settle an old score and that is it. Now may the blood from all the dead and wounded give nightmares to all those people for life. created by Syren   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 10:03 AM (EST) 112. "RE: An update straight from Iraq on how are troops really feel." Wow. Thanks for sharing your story. It's very sad. I read recently that the number of Iraqi children who are malnourished has nearly doubled since the beginning of the war. I'll try to find the link.   Top

desert_rhino 10087 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 10:17 AM (EST) 113. "RE: An update straight from Iraq on how are troops really feel." What kind of American ARE you, rodent?   Top

Wheezy 9153 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 12:20 PM (EST) 115. "RE: An update straight from Iraq on how are troops really feel." The wrong kind.   Top

HobbsofMI 16065 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-11-05, 12:09 PM (EST) 114. "RE: An update straight from Iraq on how are troops really feel." His story is very powerful and we all sat just stunned. He also said if he ever signed up for an anti-war movement, protested, or spoke out against the war that his medical disability checks would stop and had to sign a confidentiality agreement to get discharged. People who make it back and speak out get sent back quick or the stop loss order keeps them in so they can be punished by a military court. Good to see that we treat our soilders so well. created by Syren   Top

Femme 3621 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-11-05, 00:20 AM (EST) 110. "RE: Creating conditions to justify a war...Bush and Blair busted?" Some suggest impeachment is in order for Mr. Bush. I agree with "some." At least we wouldn't have to hear any more about Michael Jackson.   Top

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