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TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-18-06, 06:43 PM (EST) "In Defense of Katherine" LAST EDITED ON 05-20-06 AT 01:27 PM (EST) Note to my fans, haters and those who don't know who the heck I am: Sorry I have been lax again about posting my Gay Idol Journal, my day job here at the Mousehouse has me running like a severed-headed chicken. Needless to say, I am still watching Idol. And I stopped by to check things out here... only to be infuriated by what many of you are saying. So I had to speak up. In Defense of Katherine Over the past few weeks, and particularly in the last 16 hours, I have read some pretty severe comments on this and other Message Boards about AI5 finalist Katherine McPhee. Common words used in these posts include: snotty, arrogant, rude, slutty, mean, two-faced, evil, fake, and, worst of all, 'entitled.' Furthermore, according to these self-proclaimed 'critics,' Kat's parents, close family, friends, and anyone who likes her at all, are also all of the above things and more. They don't like the faces she makes when she gets negative comments from the judges. They don't like that she was happy when Elliott was voted off. In short, they think she is a cruel heartless biatch. (Hell, I think they would accuse her of being the anti-Christ if they had any evidence of that fact.) I happen to have a bit of knowledge of Kat, and of her mother and boyfriend as well, and I felt forced to speak out in defense of these attacks on her character. As I have stated in previous columns, Kat is the opposite of arrogant. In fact, she is perhaps the least confident idol finalist this year. Much of her life, she has been a 'theatre geek.' Well-liked, but not overwhelmingly popular, and a bit shy around groups of people. Performing is a way to 'come out of her shell' for her. She may come off as being over-confident, but this is all a defense-mechanism... a shield she puts up to cover her self-doubt. She has also fought weight issues, and recently lost a bit of weight. She has never thought of herself as truly sexy... or even attractive... and the attention she is getting this season is all new to her. Consequently, this is all a bit hard for her to adjust to. Praise is unexpected. And being criticized harshly in front of millions of people would be difficult for ANYONE, but it is especially hard for her. She is her own worst critic, and so when the judges criticize her, she takes it very personally, feels she has failed, and becomes immediately defensive. When she is criticized for being 'pitchy', this hits her especially hard, because questioning her musical ear, something she is somewhat confident with, causes her self-doubt to get even stronger. I wonder if any of you 'critics' have ever performed before an audience before? I have on numerous occasions, and let me tell you, it ain't easy. The nerves and adrenaline propel you through, and frequently you can't remember what you have just done when it's all over. If what you do remember is that it was a pretty good performance, only to be told later that you sucked, it can be pretty annoying and disheartening. Ever heard back a tape of how your voice sounds? Most people's initial reaction is "Ick! Is that how I actually sound?" It is impossible for a performer to know exactly how they look and sound. Criticism (especially from people, like Paula, who are not good with words) can be very hard to understand. The 'tilted head, quizzical eyes' expression Kat gets is just that... she doesn't know what she's being told, or how she can fix it for next time. It doesn't all compute for her. Kat was not in any way expecting to get this far. Her reaction last week, at Chris' elimination, said it all. The judges savaged her. She fully expected to go home. This week, she expected the same. So, when it was Elliott instead, she reacted with joy. Please, people, can you really blame her? Would you not be joyous in the situation? And it's not as if she jumped for joy (like Paris did a few times.) She simply smailed and looked in the direction of her parents. Of course, Taylor appreared to handle it better. But the truth is, Taylor knew full well it wasn't going to be him. The judges have pumped him up for weeks. He had plenty of time to prepare his "Oh I'm sorry for Elliott" response. Kat, however, was caught completely off guard for the second week in a row. In summary, I feel that the criticism of her 'attitude' is completely innacurate. Notice I am not criticizing those who call her 'wooden' or 'plastic.' 'Plastic' is sometimes an accurate description of her. When she is nervous or doubtful, she pastes on a big smile to cover her emotions. That fake smile is not the real Kat. Feel free to criticize her for that... she is working on it, like all performers, but has a ways to go. Feel free to criticize her if you don't like the tone of her voice, or if you don't like the style of music she sings, or if you feel she has let her nerves get it the way of her performance. But before you attack her personality, take a moment to consider the fact that your assessment of her personality is being formed with little actual evidence of who she is. And I think this is unfair, innacurate, and sometimes downright mean.   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    *claps* mrc 05-18-06 1  RE: In Defense of Katherine irishrose 05-18-06 2  RE: In Defense of Katherine zazzy 05-18-06 3  RE: In Defense of Katherine Rhyn 05-18-06 4  RE: In Defense of Katherine KoalaChick 05-18-06 5  RE: In Defense of Katherine Fishercat 05-18-06 6  RE: In Defense of Katherine batts 05-18-06 7    RE: In Defense of Katherine SeniorCitizen 05-18-06 8  RE: In Defense of Katherine dangerkitty 05-18-06 9  RE: In Defense of Katherine rn4stork 05-19-06 10    RE: In Defense of Katherine niteowl0205 05-19-06 11  RE: In Defense of Katherine katharine06idol 05-19-06 12  RE: In Defense of Katherine sylvester 05-19-06 13    RE: In Defense of Katherine LisaPles 05-19-06 19        RE: In Defense of Katherine rn4stork 05-19-06 24    RE: In Defense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-19-06 22        RE: In Defense of Katherine sylvester 05-19-06 23            If Parent McPhees are behaving badl... singer 05-19-06 25                RE: If Parent McPhees are behaving ... AshamedPoster 05-20-06 51                    RE: If Parent McPhees are behaving ... zazzy 05-20-06 55            RE: In Defense of Katherine CattyChat 05-19-06 26            RE: In Defense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-19-06 37            RE: In Defense of Katherine zazzy 05-20-06 56        Re: Katharine, account of taping We... bbblues 05-19-06 28            RE: Re: Katharine, account of tapin... CattyChat 05-19-06 34    RE: In Defense of Katherine priestdi 05-19-06 29        RE: In Defense of Katherine sylvester 05-19-06 35  Well done, Todd singer 05-19-06 14    RE: Well done, Todd archon 05-19-06 17        Thanks, Archon... singer 05-19-06 18  RE: In Defense of Katherine CattyChat 05-19-06 15  Amen Sister brvnkrz 05-19-06 16    RE: Amen Sister sisterwoman 05-19-06 20  RE: In Defense of Katherine Tahj 05-19-06 21  RE: In Defense of Katherine Captain_Savem 05-19-06 27  RE: In Defense of Katherine priestdi 05-19-06 30    RE: In Defense of Katherine Devious Weasel 05-19-06 31        RE: In Defense of Katherine rn4stork 05-19-06 32        RE: In Defense of Katherine CattyChat 05-19-06 33        RE: In Defense of Katherine sylvester 05-19-06 36            RE: In Defense of Katherine priestdi 05-19-06 38                RE: In Defense of Katherine Fishercat 05-19-06 39        RE: In Defense of Katherine AshamedPoster 05-20-06 50            RE: In Defense of Katherine Captain_Savem 05-23-06 108  RE: In Defense of Katherine LIVEURBESTLIFE 05-19-06 40    RE: In Defense of Katherine Fishercat 05-19-06 41        RE: In Defense of Katherine singer 05-19-06 43            RE: In Defense of Katherine Fishercat 05-19-06 44                RE: In Defense of Katherine singer 05-19-06 45        Hey Fishercat sylvester 05-20-06 47            RE: Hey Fishercat Fishercat 05-20-06 52        RE: In Defense of Katherine LIVEURBESTLIFE 05-20-06 57        RE: In Defense of Katherine priestdi 05-23-06 109    RE: In Defense of Katherine singer 05-19-06 42    RE: In Defense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-20-06 58    ABSOLUTELY AGREE tenmeters 05-20-06 60        RE: ABSOLUTELY AGREE mrc 05-20-06 61            RE: ABSOLUTELY AGREE Fishercat 05-20-06 62  RE: In Defense of Katherine frisky 05-19-06 46    RE: In Defense of Katherine sylvester 05-20-06 49  In Offense of Katherine AshamedPoster 05-20-06 48    RE: In Offense of Katherine Fishercat 05-20-06 53        RE: In Offense of Katherine AshamedPoster 05-20-06 54            RE: In Offense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-20-06 59                RE: In Offense of Katherine frisky 05-21-06 64                    RE: In Offense of Katherine priestdi 05-22-06 65                    RE: In Offense of Katherine archon 05-22-06 67                        RE: In Offense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-22-06 68                            RE: In Offense of Katherine archon 05-22-06 75    RE: In Offense of Katherine Devious Weasel 05-22-06 69        RE: In Offense of Katherine Tahj 05-22-06 72        RE: In Offense of Katherine tenmeters 05-22-06 73            RE: In Offense of Katherine Devious Weasel 05-22-06 77  RE: In Defense of Katherine aquariaqueen 05-20-06 63  RE: In Defense of Katherine Magnolia_Rocker 05-22-06 66    RE: In Defense of Katherine Bravegirl 05-22-06 70        RE: In Defense of Katherine TODDLJ 05-22-06 71    RE: In Defense of Katherine tenmeters 05-22-06 74        RE: In Defense of Katherine Bravegirl 05-22-06 76  Boo Hoo kiki_k 05-22-06 78  Great big huge eye roll geg6 05-22-06 79    RE: Great big huge eye roll Devious Weasel 05-22-06 80        RE: Great big huge eye roll TODDLJ 05-22-06 81            RE: Great big huge eye roll tenmeters 05-22-06 91                RE: Great big huge eye roll frisky 05-22-06 92        RE: Great big huge eye roll geg6 05-22-06 84            RE: Great big huge eye roll TODDLJ 05-22-06 88            RE: Great big huge eye roll Devious Weasel 05-23-06 100                RE: Great big huge eye roll geg6 05-24-06 111  RE: In Defense of Katherine simba 05-22-06 82  Larry, can you answer this? Tahj 05-22-06 83    RE: Larry, can you answer this? simba 05-22-06 86    RE: Larry, can you answer this? TODDLJ 05-22-06 87        RE: Larry, can you answer this? zazzy 05-22-06 89            RE: Larry, can you answer this? KoalaChick 05-22-06 90            RE: Larry, can you answer this? TODDLJ 05-23-06 94                RE: Larry, can you answer this? zazzy 05-23-06 97                    RE: Larry, can you answer this? TODDLJ 05-23-06 98                        LOUSY PR? singer 05-23-06 99                            RE: LOUSY PR? simba 05-23-06 101                                whitney/celine niteowl0205 05-23-06 106                            RE: LOUSY PR? simba 05-23-06 102                                AGREE? singer 05-23-06 104  RE: In Defense of Katherine Irishbear0987 05-22-06 85    RE: In Defense of Katherine SeniorCitizen 05-22-06 93        RE: In Defense of Katherine jags 05-23-06 95        RE: In Defense of Katherine simba 05-23-06 96            RE: In Defense of Katherine Bravegirl 05-23-06 103                RE: In Defense of Katherine singer 05-23-06 105  RE: In Defense of Katherine Magalie18 05-23-06 107  late bloomer cqvenus 05-23-06 110

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mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-18-06, 07:17 PM (EST) 1. "*claps*" LAST EDITED ON 05-18-06 AT 11:00 PM (EST) What Larry said.   Top

irishrose 75 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-18-06, 07:46 PM (EST) 2. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Very Well Said.   Top

zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-18-06, 07:50 PM (EST) 3. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Todd, I appreciate your comments. I have often wondered if Katherine's actions were a defense mechanism. I also saw a video of her on the web where she was rehearsing a play. She looked a little bigger then as compared to now (not much). One comment I have heard about her from friends is that they are frustrated that the judges have told her repeatedly week after week not to oversing (feedback they agreed with)...yet she does over and over again (OTR an exception). It is like she once was told she was good when she belts it out and she thinks that is the only way anyone will think she is good. In any event, some people have commented that she has been unable to incorporate the feedback from the judges on a consistent basis and they find that a turn off.   Top

Rhyn 524 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-18-06, 07:52 PM (EST) 4. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I'm over all the haters. I cannot fathom why some people have made up their minds (en masse, no less) to loathe and deplore her conceit. I just absolutely do not understand that reaction. Dislike her singing? Her social-awkwardness? Her fashion choices? Whatever. All those things, for the record, endear her to me. She has a fantastic voice, and she dresses like hell and acts rather goofy. She's every friend I've ever bothered to want to be friends with. I just adore her. And I ache for her when people are so ugly. They talk about her like she's Kevin Corvais or something.   Top

KoalaChick 509 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-18-06, 08:05 PM (EST) 5. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Larry, thank you so much for posting this. I have been baffled by the way Kat has been perceived on these boards. I find her charming and incredibly talented. I think some of the negative comments are prompted by jealousy of her looks and skills.   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-18-06, 08:13 PM (EST) 6. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" This was very nice to see, and I am glad someone finally said it.   Top

batts 1731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Peanut Festival Grand Marshall" 05-18-06, 08:28 PM (EST) 7. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I've always liked Katherine. She's on my current PTTE to win American Idol.... (even though my psychic abilities really SUCK this year) I usually give the 'haters' the talk to the hand gesture. I'm glad you spoke up for Katherine, though. I lvoe her!   Top

SeniorCitizen 57 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-18-06, 10:17 PM (EST) 8. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" LAST EDITED ON 05-18-06 AT 10:38 PM (EST) In a post early this morning on the "I love Katharine McFee" thread I expressed many of the same observations, not from knowing Katharine personally, but from suspecting she is very much like one of my several daughters, a statuesque beauty who has a great deal of self doubt. It is evident to me that Kat was in many ways the youngest of the contestants this year. Paris, Lisa, and even Kevin seemed to me to have a lot more self confidence from the beginning. Whichever of the two final contestants win, it will be a wonderful show, and this trial of fire will probably help Kat to gain the strength she will need if her talent takes her into the world of professional pop music. Or perhaps she will, like singers such as Mandy Patinkin and Jason Alexander, and even JaLo, become someone who will be known more as an actor on TV or in films. Love and luck to you Kat.   Top

dangerkitty 1913 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-18-06, 10:43 PM (EST) 9. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Larry, You are a wonderful person. Thank you for saying this. I've been shocked at the ugliness and venom that has been hurled at her. This post is a breath of fresh air, and more. Thank you, thank you. dk   Top

rn4stork 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 00:24 AM (EST) 10. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" a truthful person..... you have concisely put into words what MANY people have been thinking for a while about the disgusting things people with consciences have been posting. shame on these poor people who are just full of HATE..... what is wrong with them.....venting on a person they don't even know.... i applaud you.   Top

niteowl0205 136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 01:06 AM (EST) 11. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I wish more people out there could see this post. I love Katherine and see her as a real person. I am afraid that Taylor might win, but Kat will go on to great things.   Top

katharine06idol 1 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 01:41 AM (EST) 12. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" THANK YOU soooooo much for posting this...i really think that people who can relate to kat, people who are JUST LIKE HER, are able to understand her so well, while others who don't struggle with the same things see her in the way that they have said...i share a lot of the same "ways" with Kat, so i never see what they see, and i totally get her, and i thank you so much again for posting this in her defense, because she is so deserving of that. unfortunately, no matter what anybody says, people will believe what they want to believe and see what they want to see, HOWEVER, if it makes even ONE person think about her in a different light, it was worth it, ya know? thanks again!   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-19-06, 02:20 AM (EST) 13. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I wasn't so much bothered by Kat smiling after the news last night, but I was truly horrified by the actions of her mother. I think alot of the venom coming out today is a direct result of her mom's fist pumping, MCPHAN chanting celebration while Elliott's mom cried. Posters on all the boards are mean to all the contestants, I've seen horrid things written about all of them. I'm not sure why Katherine alone should be defended? You're entitled to say what you feel, but I'm sorry, it doesn't change the way I feel.   Top

LisaPles 740 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-19-06, 09:32 AM (EST) 19. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" >Posters on all the boards are >mean to all the contestants, >I've seen horrid things written >about all of them. >I'm not sure why Katherine >alone should be defended? Yes, this is the nature of most message boards especially in discussion of "reality TV". I think it's cool that everybody watches the same thing and has different opinions. I'm not sure why people feel such a need to defend someone who was cast for a contest show. There are a lot of super heroes out there who want to rescue a damsel in distress. It's classic! Don’t get me wrong, I do think that it’s nice but a little weird that people take these things so seriously.   Top

rn4stork 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 12:21 PM (EST) 24. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" >>Posters on all the boards are >>mean to all the contestants, >>I've seen horrid things written >>about all of them. >>I'm not sure why Katherine >>alone should be defended? > >Yes, this is the nature of >most message boards especially in >discussion of "reality TV". I >think it's cool that everybody >watches the same thing and >has different opinions. I'm not >sure why people feel such >a need to defend someone >who was cast for a >contest show. >There are a lot of super >heroes out there who want >to rescue a damsel in >distress. It's classic! Don’t get >me wrong, I do think >that it’s nice but a >little weird that people take >these things so seriously. I like both Idols. I believe that Taylor is getting some venom that is apparent....but Katherine is by far the stoned victim. I find it refreshing that there are still heroes that come forward to uphold a damsel's virtue. I wouldn't mind one of those myself. Words hurt, serious or not.   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-19-06, 11:32 AM (EST) 22. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" LAST EDITED ON 05-19-06 AT 11:36 AM (EST) Two points in rebuttal to your statements, sylvester: 1. If your daughter just made the finals of the biggest talent contest in the nation, I have a feeling you might get a little bit happy. I don't understand all the venom about this action. Additionally... I have heard from friends who were at the taping that night, that the reaction of Peisha McPhee was edited out of context. For the first few moments, she just stood there in shock, with her face in her hands. Then she reacted with glee a few minutes later, after the Elliott sympathy/mother crying/etc. had passed. The editors put one mom crying next to one mom pumping her fist for dramatic effect. The events weren't happening at the same time. 2. True, posters are mean to all contestants. And when they are mean about someones CHARACTER, I think all contestants should be defended, not just Kat. I happen to know Kat as a person, so I choose to defend her. Others can feel free to defend Taylor, or Lisa or Kellie or Ace if they like. I don't know those people. And, to LisaPles: You are wondering why people take this seriously... remember, I live in Sherman Oaks, California... and I take this seriously because she is someone who I happen to be aquainted with. Attacks on her character on this website or any website are unfounded and heartless. And someone needed to say something.   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-19-06, 12:10 PM (EST) 23. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" "1. If your daughter just made the finals of the biggest talent contest in the nation, I have a feeling you might get a little bit happy. I don't understand all the venom about this action. Additionally... I have heard from friends who were at the taping that night, that the reaction of Peisha McPhee was edited out of context. For the first few moments, she just stood there in shock, with her face in her hands. Then she reacted with glee a few minutes later, after the Elliott sympathy/mother crying/etc. had passed. The editors put one mom crying next to one mom pumping her fist for dramatic effect. The events weren't happening at the same time." Todd, I mean you no disrespect, honestly. You obviously feel a need to protect this girl. I agree with Lisaples that this seems to be a classic case of 'damsel in distress' syndrome. I saw much worse said about Kellie Pickler, but people didn't seem to jump to her defense like this. Maybe because she didn't have a family friend/acquaintance that was a regular poster on this board. As far as my reaction if it were my daughter. I have 2 daughters, both in their 20's, so I am familiar with motherly pride. I just can't imagine being that insensitive, I truly can't. Of course there is no exact parallel, so I can only try to put myself in that situation. But Mrs. McPhee is a show business pro, no? I would think she would be acutely aware of her demeanor on camera. Isn't this a live show? How could they have edited the reaction shots? It's not just Wednesday night either. It was reported in an online magazine article (The Advocate) that Mr. McPhee rushed the judge's table during commercial break one night, because the judges in his humble opinion had been too harsh on his daughter. According to Paris' family anyway, that kind of thing isn't allowed. That was the week Kat got a big apology from Simon the next night. I also know that Peisha McPhee was bending the rules for months by her website/email campaign for her daughter. She and Kat were both communicating directly with McPhans. AI did finally put a stop to it.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 12:26 PM (EST) 25. "If Parent McPhees are behaving badly," then people should snark at them, not Katherine. But vilifying the entire family makes no sense to me. (Actually, I am glad that someone has stood up to the judges and called them on their pimping.) It is no secret that these "live" shows get to us after a time delay. Personally, I have complained vociferously about editing shenanigans on other reality shows (particularly the Apprentice's "live" finale). Editing and producer image manipulation can run rampant in these environments, and they often do. I suspect that this is the case now. None of these observations take away from Katherine's basic musical ability. If people focus on that simple fact and on the fact that Taylor's musical abilities also bring something very special to this competition, then these discussions would not be so heated. --Singer   Top

AshamedPoster 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-20-06, 00:21 AM (EST) 51. "RE: If Parent McPhees are behaving badly," I will agree AI seems to have an anti-Katherine bias. My basis for this belief is how they panned to her creepy parents about 25 times during the Final Three. Despite my general dislike for Katherine, her parents are probably her biggest detractor. It almost seems like they have one guy shooting them the whole time and the producers immediately pan to them whenever they are acting up. Even though I like Taylor, the show's bias towards him is a little annoying.   Top

zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-06, 10:40 AM (EST) 55. "RE: If Parent McPhees are behaving badly," I do not agree that AI has an anti Katharine bias. Showing Kat's parents has been part of her story all along--as they have shown Elliot's mom all along. Taylor's family has been shown to a much lesser degree. Showing the family is part of the AI strategy to get you to vote for someone. I have had friends tell me they were voting for Elliot not just because they like his voice but because they liked his story and his mom. AI wove that story, complete with Elliot's mom being in most of his shots at his hometown, unlike Taylor's or Kat's story. Kat's family was shown at the end of her hometown visit; Taylor's not at all. Someone made these production choices--with the contestants I would guess. In any event, Kat's family being shown in previous shows is an AI supportive move and now in the last show it is an anti-Kat move? I don't buy that at all. IMO Chris and Kat received the most helpful lighting and production work from AI while on stage...Taylor got the reprise of Jailhouse rock opp, and Elliot got the mom story. If anything, Elliot got the least help and Taylor had even less until the extra jailhouse rock slot came along. IMO Kat is getting the Carrie treatment--lots of extra production help to showcase her when singing.   Top

CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-19-06, 12:41 PM (EST) 26. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" "I saw much worse said about Kellie Pickler, but people didn't seem to jump to her defense like this." Actually, I vehemently defended Kellie when people started viciously attacking her character and finally, after quite a few posts, a few others jumped on board with me to defend her. I agree Kellie has received the worst. As soon as some of it started trickling over to Kat's character as being a snob, a slut, etc., I then defended her character. For me, it's not "damsel in distress" syndrome, as I am a woman -- but rather, it's just that I cannot stand to see people unfairly skewered to such an extreme that you would believe these people knew first-hand of the supposed "character flaws" they are so quick to remark on as though it were fact. I've been taught to live by the "Golden Rule," to "do unto others as you would have done unto you." I'm sure everybody here has been the victim of false assumptions and were probably hurt by it at some point in their young lives. When I was a teen, I was very shy and lacked self-confidence and didn't think of myself as attractive -- later I was to learn that many people perceived me as a snob, conceited and that I thought I was "all that" and in reality it was the total opposite and anyone who took the time to get to know me or approach me found out who I really was. So, I can totally relate to what Larry is explaining about where Kat comes from in that regard and that was one of the reasons I started defending her so early, because I had a hunch she was shy and lacked self-confidence by her mannerisms and to me she seemed really sweet and sincere, though guarded. As an adult, I don't let people's words and first "assumptions" bother me, because I have had a few years to mature and grow in life. When I was Kat's & Kellie's age people's criticisms cut like a knife no matter how false they were. Kat & Kellie are going to be hurt deeply by what people post about them and we all know that they have been told and read various posts on various boards. This is age-appropriate behavior for them to be hurt and to let it affect them. Anyway, I don't have a problem when people criticize or tease these contestants about their singing or if they made the wrong wardrobe choice or their dance moves are a joke -- what I do have a problem with is people unfairly attacking the character of these contestants and spewing very hateful comments about them or speading unsubstantiated rumors. It seems to me the people writing these vile comments are the ones who are taking things too seriously and not those of us who like to gently remind that we don't know any of those claims to be true and they are unfair and hurtful. Kind Creation of ARNutz   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-19-06, 05:37 PM (EST) 37. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" The show is definitely edited. (I work for Disney TV, I know a bit about how 'live' shows work.) For one, there are several cameras taping at all times. The producers choose which footage to use, carefully showing which images are the most effective and avoiding ones which are less effective. These are snap decisions, but they are definitely decisions. They chose not to show Kat hugging Elliott. They focused on Elliott's family during that moment. Then, they cut back to her, to show her smiling at her parents. This was a choice the producers made. Additionally, there is a tape delay even in a 'live' show. On the fly, they replace some footage with other footage that happened on a different camera. There isn't a ton of time for this, but it does happen. Especially if they are trying to get a very dramatic image or juxtaposition of images. They chose not to show her parents looking surprised and confused. They chose instead to show a view of them where they were pumping their fists. Before this, they re-used a shot of Elliott's Mom crying from another camera that happened a few seconds earlier. This was a better, more dramatic juxtaposition. It's live TV... but it is manipulated carefully.   Top

zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-06, 10:45 AM (EST) 56. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" As far as the edit of the McPhee parents after Kat made F2....it seems that the McPhees are performing savvy--her mom is a singer and her father is in production--so they are no strangers to the camera. Let's face it--Kat's mom was playing to the camera--she was talking and arm waving for the camera! Why be so surprised that it winds up edited as it was?   Top

bbblues 9 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 12:57 PM (EST) 28. "Re: Katharine, account of taping Wednesday night" I found this account from someone who was at the taping on Wednesday night on another message board. I have never been a Kat fan because Chris was my one and only , but what is now going on now is ridiculous. I hope this sheds some light. Someone posted this on IDF: Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE(Yaminit4ever @ May 18th 2006, 4:29 PM) I never posted on these boards before but I decided to sign up because I wanted to tell you guys what happened last night. I was in the audience last night and watched the show on tv today, and I have to say what the Camera does to people is not right. I for one was never a Katherine fan, I found her to be rude and nasty. But after attending the show for the first time last night and then watching it back on tv it is not what it seems! When they announced Elliott was going home Katherine put her hand on her heart (i guess she was nervous) and then she put her arm around Elliott and was saying something to him and like rubbing his back so it looked to me as if she was consoling him, then he said something and Taylor and Katherine were smiling. Then today when I watched it on tv it just looked like Katherine didnt care. Another thing is when Katherines family was smiling I think it was at the point Katherine and Elliott kissed because the whole crowd went wild (not kissed like in a "I want you" way but in a friendly way)..They made it look really bad on tv and it wasnt. After the show Elliott was crying and said that he is so happy he got to be a part of the show and he thanked everyone then they rushed him off the stage but he came back out and the judges were hugging him and then Taylor and Katherine and him had a group hug for like 10 minutes and wouldnt let go lol then I had to leave so I didnt see what else happened. Aside from Elliott leaving it was a great show. Their voices sound 10x as amazing in person then on tv as well. They look like they really love each other and they got really close it was good to see. If anyone has any other questions ill be happy to anwser --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Top

CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-19-06, 02:13 PM (EST) 34. "RE: Re: Katharine, account of taping Wednesday night" GREAT post, Bbblues, and welcome to the boards. Hopefully your post will remind people that these shows are all about E.D.I.T.I.N.G. and we never see the whole picture and things can easily be taken out of context before we start pointing fingers at someone and are prepared to burn them at the stake for a misconstrued action. Kind Creation of ARNutz   Top

priestdi 378 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-19-06, 01:37 PM (EST) 29. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" > >Posters on all the boards are >mean to all the contestants, >I've seen horrid things written >about all of them. >I'm not sure why Katherine >alone should be defended? > So .... five wrongs make a right now? A lot of people out there are mean-spirited and nasty, so that makes it OK for people to behave boorishly toward her too?   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-19-06, 02:31 PM (EST) 35. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" "So .... five wrongs make a right now? A lot of people out there are mean-spirited and nasty, so that makes it OK for people to behave boorishly toward her too?" Sigh. I'm sorry that I can't jump on the 'poor poor Katherine' bandwagon. I don't think that stating that I was horrified by her mother's behavior is an unfair bash of Katherine. They are ALL young, they are ALL I'm sure hurt by some of the criticisms. Others have fared worse. If the original post here had mentioned any of the others, I would have been more sympathetic. We have a family friend/acquaintance here, rushing to the defense of his friend, and only his friend. If you could reply and show me where I said it was ok, I'd appreciate it.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 06:38 AM (EST) 14. "Well done, Todd" Finally, a voice of reason in the midst of this hot, stinking mess. I find the vitriol against Kat extremely sexist to boot. I doubt that there would be the same level of negative comments about a man, esp. with reference to appearance. The people who try to nail her on vocal production don't do very well at it, so they try to hang their criticisms on weak and unfounded arguments about her personality. And they don't even know her. Give the girl a break, already. Enough is enough. --Singer   Top

archon 178 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 08:35 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Well done, Todd" Singer... I agree with you and Todd about all the carp that Kat has taken the past few weeks. But I really do not beleive the abuse is because she is a woman. I can remember quite a few male contestants who were thoroughly criticized on this board over the past few seasons. I dont know Kat at all, so I have no insight to her psyche. Just wish she would stop belting and just sing. If she had been doing that, I think she would not have to be surprised she makes it through week after week. Archon "You can get more with a 2x4 and a kind word than with just a kind word." (Marcus, B5)   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 09:01 AM (EST) 18. "Thanks, Archon..." LAST EDITED ON 05-19-06 AT 09:05 AM (EST) for your note. Maybe I should clarify my comments about sexism. I haven't seen many people talking about how much they like the tight pants that male singers wear, though I have seen posts about Ace being "eye candy." (Heck, I've made them myself.) Saying that someone (male or female) is cute, but they cannot sing, is not the same as speculating about moral character based on appearance. (I'm referring to comments that call Kat "slutty," and goodness knows I've seen them.) I doubt that people saying these types of things even know the girl. And if she were slutty, why would they care? Would they care equally about how a male contestant behaves in this area of life? I doubt it. So the nature of some negative comments about Kat's appearance go to my comments about sexism. I just don't see the same level of negative, sexual appearance comments being made about the male contestants, and I don't see those comments being linked to the male singers' morality. I think people are more catty about Kat's appearance than they have to be. If she were a good-looking man with a good voice, I do not think that the venom would be as apparent. And I doubt that there would be judgments about her moral character based on those superficial television images of her. (And I've commented about Elliott and Bucky's teeth and Chris's Death Stare, but my comments did not go to whether any of these guys have loose morals.) Oh, and I agree with you 100% about belting, Archon! I think that she does this a bit too much, and I think that she does it because she is a young singer. When she's more seasoned, I am sure that she'll rein in this impulse. I still think she's outstanding. --Singer   Top

CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-19-06, 08:13 AM (EST) 15. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" THANK YOU, Larry, for a well-timed and well-worded post. I feel like I have been shouting to brick walls in my feeble attempts to defend Kat and Kellie before her -- both of whom I felt were being maliciously & unfairly attacked regarding their character and who they are in general. Like you said, you can criticize their singing ability and whether it's not to your liking, but the extremely nasty & baseless remarks that have been thrown around this thread have been terrible, unfair and without merit. Thanks again, Larry, and I hope your words will make some people think about why they write the hurtful things they write. You know the old saying, the pen is mightier than the sword . . . words do hurt, even when the don't hold an ounce of truth. I have seen Kat change over the last few weeks (just as Kellie did in her last couple of weeks) and I honestly believe it's mainly attributable to the extremely nasty & hurtful things that have been posted about them. People seem to forget that they are young girls with a lot of life experiences ahead of them to experience and allow them to grow in maturity, self-confidence and wisdom. People also forget that we are only seeing one tiny facet of who these people are and to judge their character on a few minutes of singing, edited clips and their raw reactions to what is thrown at them when they are standing on a stage in front of thousands and on TV before millions. One final time, thank you, Larry, for your insightful post and I hope everyone takes the time to read it. Kind Creation of ARNutz   Top

brvnkrz 20491 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-19-06, 08:34 AM (EST) 16. "Amen Sister" Applause for Larry. I knew I liked you. One nation under George, divided.   Top

sisterwoman 163 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 09:53 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Amen Sister" I'm not a Kat fan, but not because I think she's a snot. I am one of those who doesn't like her style of music. I think she has a beautiful voice and she's a knock out to look at. I love seeing a woman who isn't skin and bones up there strutting her stuff. I liked her a lot at first, but then she made a comment early on about how Constantine's "make love to the camera" stare inspired her to do the same. My interpretation of what she said there, I don't have her exact words, but basically that. Ugg, I hated Constantine so much, especially because of those cheesy looks and now its all I can picture when she does it. Blech! Yeah, that's petty, but I can't shake it. It sets her up in my mind to be somewhat fake (I don't think she's really fake, but putting on a show, if that makes a bit of sense!)Anyhow, it keeps me from jumping on her bandwagon. And I REALLY like Taylor, so I'd like him to win anyhow. Larry, you said your piece so well. I agree with a lot of what you said about Kat.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-19-06, 11:25 AM (EST) 21. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Great post LJ. It's nice to see cooler heads prevail. It's too bad that the kind of bashing you address takes place, but it seems to come with the territory. I hope Kat isn't reading a lot of it because it would be best for her to try and insulate herself from it. I'm shocked to hear you say that she doesn't think she's attractive. When I've watched her, I've actually found myself mesmerized by her appearance. I hope her attitude about herself will change eventually. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

Captain_Savem 3731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-19-06, 12:48 PM (EST) 27. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Very well said LJ. Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo. MySpace   Top

priestdi 378 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-19-06, 01:42 PM (EST) 30. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Thank you so much for this. I've been very disturbed by the extreme ill-will and nasty comments I've been reading in too many places, including a board I manage. I cannot fathom how people can develop such animosity toward someone who's done nothing remotely wrong to anybody. hating on her for being too perfect (in their eyes) is just nonsensical. even if she WERE perfect, this is somehow her fault? something she should apologize for, or be ripped apart for? it's simply absurd to me. ditto for hating Kat for something her mother did. that has what, exactly, to do with her? I appreciated you earlier comments about kat's background, it changed the way I've viewed her these past few weeks. and on another note, I thought her "rainbow" was second only to fantasia' "summertime" as an all-time Idol best performance. I wasn't expecting it, and she blew me away. I've been completely perplexed by some of the responses I've seen to it, it's like people are incapable of really hearing her, their irrational dislike gets in the way of their hearing.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-19-06, 01:49 PM (EST) 31. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I think for most people it isn't necessarily a dislike of Kat as it is perception of her as threat toward their favorite, Taylor. I think if Elliott had stayed around instead of Kat, a lot of this bile would be directed towards him. Wednesday night was a wake up call for a lot of people (and judging by his expression, for Taylor as well) that Taylor isn't the most wildly popular AI contestant ever. As a result, we are now seeing a lot of attempts to either denigrate the results or denigrate the opposition.   Top

rn4stork 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-19-06, 01:53 PM (EST) 32. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" >I think for most people it >isn't necessarily a dislike of >Kat as it is perception >of her as threat toward >their favorite, Taylor. I think >if Elliott had stayed around >instead of Kat, a lot >of this bile would be >directed towards him. > >Wednesday night was a wake up >call for a lot of >people (and judging by his >expression, for Taylor as well) >that Taylor isn't the most >wildly popular AI contestant ever. >As a result, we are >now seeing a lot of >attempts to either denigrate the >results or denigrate the opposition. > > > Weasel..... I believe you hit the nail on head.....   Top

CattyChat 3379 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Car Show Celebrity" 05-19-06, 02:11 PM (EST) 33. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I too agree, Devious, that that is probably a big cause for the growing animosity against their favorite's competitor. But it's funny that people should even think that way. I, for one, started this season with many favorites -- I honestly think, hands down, this season's top 12 is head & shoulders above the prior seasons. As the season went on, I ended up with my top 4 -- Taylor, Kat, Chris & Kellie. I love them all the same, but for very different reasons AND while they were all competing for the top spot on AI, each is so very different that none of them are in real direct competition with each other. They each have their own sound and their own niche in the business. People should remember that and that, in all seriousness, it doesn't matter who wins next week (and this includes all of the top 12) it boils down to their own individual style and talent as to where it takes them. So next week, I'll vote just as much for Kat as I do Taylor, because I love them both. My votes with cancel each other out, but I feel that voting is showing my support for both of them (I thought about not bothering to vote since I like them equally, but changed my mind). Kind Creation of ARNutz   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-19-06, 02:39 PM (EST) 36. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I think that's carp DW. Fans of the other contestants have been denigrating Taylor since the beginning. The biggest push on the AI boards yesterday regarding Katherine came from the Elliott fans, not the Taylor fans. The week before the anti-Kat stuff was coming from the Chris fans. It's always been obvious that you don't like Taylor, so your comments are par for the course.   Top

priestdi 378 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-19-06, 06:34 PM (EST) 38. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" in my personal observations, however, the criticisms of the men have been on a different plane from the nastiness that was aimed first at Kellie and now at Kat. it's more personal. meaner.   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-19-06, 08:08 PM (EST) 39. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" As one who is guilty of this behavior toward Kellie (and I regret what I have said at this point. I still think she was faking it, but I have no concrete proof and I should not have said what I said), I agree with prestidi. I have criticized three contestants this year. Chris: I critcized his inability to pick a song that wasn't a rock song until his 7th selection of the competition (Bon Jovi, Fuel, Seether, Stevie Wonder covered by the RHCP, Johnny Cash rocked up a bit, Creed). He looked like a part of the male genitalia with ears (taken from VFTW). I got bored with him quickly. Ace: The permanent scar could have been one of the lamest moments in Idol history. Kellie: Unlike the other two, I not only attacked her voice and inability to perform outside of the realm of country, but I attacked her character as many are doing to Kat. I saw her as faking naivity and innocence. I'm sure you guys could find my posts here. There is a difference between male criticism and female.   Top

AshamedPoster 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-20-06, 00:15 AM (EST) 50. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" As a fan of Taylor, I am not really concerned about him winning Idol or not. He has a niche already and will make a record. Winning would just be a welcome bonus. My dislike of Katherine is sincere, I really liked Elliot and honestly would be comfortable with almost every other contestant winning the contest (although not all deserved it equally). Can't people just dislike anyone anymore? I like Taylor but don't get upset when people call him overrated, spastic, and mildly obnoxious...because I can't honestly disagree. Perhaps Katherine is just a generally dislikable person...that happens sometimes   Top

Captain_Savem 3731 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Thong Contest Judge" 05-23-06, 06:40 PM (EST) 108. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Can't people just dislike anyone anymore? Absolutely you can. Hell, this board was created for that very purpose. A place where ad hominem attacks are not only encouraged, but revered. I would even argue that shows like The Real World, Survivor, Paradise Hotel, Love Cruise, Joe Millionaire and the like were created for the sole purpose of eliciting those very responses from it's viewers. Wasn't it Ali who said something along the lines of if they love me they'll root for me, if they hate me they'll root for me to get my head knocked off, but either way, they're gonna wanna pay to see it? Well that's reality tv. But I digress. American Idol is a different beast in that there is the assumption of a talent contest. So AI is more like Star Search than it is like Survivor. And because we are assumed to be judging or liking people based on talent, attacking someone's character doesn't translate so much. Now you and I know that viewers will like or dislike the contestants for whatever reason they choose, but one can't escape the underlining theme that AI is a talent show. I for one don't like Taylor Hicks. But I never attacked his person. I just don't think he's all that. I think his voice is okay and his style corny. But he seems like a pretty cool guy and I'd prolly hang out with him in RL. But as far as his talent goes, I would put him in the same group as Bo last year: Glorified Lounge Singer. Alot of people on this board don't agree with my assessment. My point is, some people separate the person from the performance, some people don't. And I think that's where the difference lies. Handcrafted by RollDdice, yo. MySpace   Top

LIVEURBESTLIFE 302 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-19-06, 08:42 PM (EST) 40. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" TODDLJ writes: "And it's not as if she jumped for joy (like Paris did every week.)" I had to respond to this comment. I never saw Paris act ungraciously. What I did see were tears shed everytime someone was voted off. If the voted off person was in the bottom 2 or 3 with Paris the first thing she always did was give the eliminated contestant a warm and supportive hug. Never did she grin with glee and joy. Don't know where you got your perception of Paris but it is waaaay off base.   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-19-06, 08:46 PM (EST) 41. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Source: VFTW: Paris Bennett said in an interview that she did a happy dance when you were eliminated from the competition because she really didn't like you. Of course, those were fighting words for us, and Paris became VFTW enemy number one. Had you heard about this and what is your reaction? Brenna: Your montage put it eloquently . In a song I wrote, entitled Coal To My Diamond, I address that issue. Honestly, she is a little kid, she's 17, and I am a grown woman. My play dates ended in the 1980's. http://www.votefortheworst.com/brenna.html   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 08:58 PM (EST) 43. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" For the record, I am basing my comments on the final 12 competition. This interview does not prove that Paris danced a happy dance on-camera. I hold to my position that I have never seen her do this. --Singer   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-19-06, 09:03 PM (EST) 44. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" The OP used words like "never", which means just that, never. I think Larry was off with the "every week" comment, although I see no difference between the F12 and F24. And the on-camera shouldn't matter either. If she did it off camera instead of on, that just shows a sense of stage awareness and a false attitude.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 09:09 PM (EST) 45. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Agree totally. I guess you've seen enough of my posts to know that I care about evidence, and I just wanted everyone to know that this is what I am basing my opinions on. I will also say for the record that if Paris did this and if she participated in a cat fight with the other contestant, then she was wrong. --Singer   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-20-06, 00:03 AM (EST) 47. "Hey Fishercat" I am a regular on the VFTW boards (different screen name though) I've seen you mention the board before, do you post over there too?   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-06, 00:52 AM (EST) 52. "RE: Hey Fishercat" I sporadically post over there under the name "waruv". It's once in a rare while.   Top

LIVEURBESTLIFE 302 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-20-06, 01:22 PM (EST) 57. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" As I remember it nobody really liked Brenna. Also, this quote comes from a website. As a viewer, I would never know who Paris like and disliked because she was gracious enough not to show it on national TV.   Top

priestdi 378 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-23-06, 07:29 PM (EST) 109. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Everybody I know did a happy dance when Brenna went down. She came across as SUCH a major #####. So if Paris was glad to see her go, she can just join the crowd with thousands of others who felt the same. That means nothing whatsoever about her character, or about how she felt when anybody else was eliminated.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-19-06, 08:53 PM (EST) 42. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" It's just as amazing as the unfair comments about Kat. People wanted to denigrate Paris for having a music background and a family that wanted her to sing. Since it was difficult to make the erroneous case that she could not sing, they picked her family apart, they picked her clothes apart, they picked her speaking voice apart, and then I even read some posters' unsubstantiated claims that Paris had a problem with That Pickle because she did not stand really close to her when both of them hit the seal. I never saw Paris rejoicing in any contestant's misery, but people have tried to create the fiction that she did. Also, she is one talented kid, and the fact that she was able to sing her way through each genre of music with very few glitches is amazing. This is particularly true, given the fact that she is so young. Her detractors could not disprove the fact of her vocal gift, so they started a rumour that she was somehow unsure of her musical identity. (Yet some of the same posters applauded Chris for being a one-trick rock pony.) Anyway, I see definite parallels between the unfair treatment of Kat and of Paris, in terms of unsubstantiated comments about their personalities and behaviours with other contestants. Thanks for pointing this out. --Singer   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-20-06, 01:23 PM (EST) 58. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" AGREED. Sorry about the 'every week' comment, it was an exaggeration and offbase. 'A few times' would hev been more accurate. Even so, I don't blame Paris for jumping for joy, either. If I was in her shoes, I'd probably do the same. I'm not slamming her for saying she jumped for joy.   Top

tenmeters 202 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-20-06, 07:47 PM (EST) 60. "ABSOLUTELY AGREE" Paris was probably the most gracious contestant in AI history. To think she's only 14.   Top

mrc 10113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-20-06, 09:44 PM (EST) 61. "RE: ABSOLUTELY AGREE" She's 16 or 17, no?   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-06, 10:29 PM (EST) 62. "RE: ABSOLUTELY AGREE" 17 I believe   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-19-06, 11:38 PM (EST) 46. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I just want to go on record as saying that I have bashed everyone, not just Kat, and except for Chris. I am an equal opportunity basher. Rolly made this. Desperate Housecats   Top

sylvester 555 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-20-06, 00:06 AM (EST) 49. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" "I just want to go on record as saying that I have bashed everyone, not just Kat, and except for Chris. I am an equal opportunity basher." Well at least you admit it. I don't bash anyone on this board. I have bashed Chris many times on the VFTW board, I admit. Always good to have balance in the world, lol.   Top

AshamedPoster 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-20-06, 00:06 AM (EST) 48. "In Offense of Katherine" What I find hysterical about this thread is that the same people who admonish others for "bashing" someone they don't also claim to know the psychological explanations for the behavior of Katherine and her creepy parents. I am not going to claim that Katherine is a slut...or that she is a bad or self-consumed person. I don't know her, I can't make those claims. However, from what we have all observed, she sure comveys that by her wardrobe-choice, eye-rolling, and incessant pouting. And it seems rather absurd for viewers of a voyueristic television show such as AI to admonish other viewers for criticizing on screen behavior. What also appears lost on people is that this a "pop" music competition. And in pop music, appearence and reputation are often more important than an individual's singing ability. While I am a Taylor fan, I openly admit that Taylor, Kat, and every other contestant on the show falls short of being a "world class" singer. But thats not what this show is about. I wonder if these same people write the same type of feverent defenses to every celebrity that appears in the tabloids. Finally, what is so wrong about making assumptions on someone based on repeated behavior which conforms to those assumptions? In essence, such inductive reasoning is the basis for logical thought. I am not a judgmental person, and I almost never become invested in reality TV stars, but I truly despise Katherine. While I admit that is based on personal opinion, I also know she has to be pretty offensive to achieve such a dubious honor.   Top

Fishercat 4168 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-20-06, 00:54 AM (EST) 53. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Eye-rolling, outfit choices, and pouting make someone truly despised? Eeek, tough crowd.   Top

AshamedPoster 6 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-20-06, 01:00 AM (EST) 54. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Like I said, the despise is just my personal feelings. Can't justify them 100%, but I know the aforementioned added to it. I think part of the reason was that I really liked her at the start, but I think her performances steadily declined (her first few were amazing) and she shedded the sweer/classic beauty persona for the awkward sluttiness. In fact, I don't think she is actually a slut, she looks too uncomfortable when she is trying to be seductive...which is equally offputting (in my mind).   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-20-06, 01:36 PM (EST) 59. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Other than your choice of the word 'despise,' which seems a bit severe to me, your other comments actually seem tame. I've certainly 'bashed' all the contestants, including Kat, for wardrobe choices, image choices, and perceived attitude in the past. These topics seem fair, we're just commenting on what we see. I'm not sure you are the sort of person my original post was criticizing. I was criticizing those who judged her (or Paris... or anyone I suppose) on her character and value as a person despite not knowing her at all.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-21-06, 11:08 PM (EST) 64. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" LAST EDITED ON 05-21-06 AT 11:09 PM (EST) I guess there's just a fine line between "character and value" and "perceived attitude." If I perceive her attitude to be "snotty," "b!tch," or "snotty b!tch," and I label her as such on these boards, am I judging her character or her value as a person? You could certainly perceive that about me, just as I perceive that she's a snob. But, it doesn't mean I really feel that way. It's just a TV show, and this is just a message board. This is a distraction from real life for us, while it's real life for Katherine. You guys know that I don't know Katherine, and that I'm just making an assumption based on what little information I have. Just as an example: I perceive that Chris is probably really good in the sack. Why? Well, because he's a sexy guy. I'm just commenting on what I see, but is it fair for me to make the assumption that because he's sexy, he's great in the sack? Probably not, although I'm sure he wouldn't mind. LOL So, what was my point? *wipes drool from chin* Oh, yeah. I guess my point is, and Larry, you know I love and worship you, that as a defense to the basherers, this is sort of our own little game within a game. I'm pretty sure Smelliot doesn't stink, but it fun to just call him that, you know? Everyone we've ever bashed here at SB has a story. In fact, I'd bet that the most bashable people probably have the heartbreakingest stories of all. But we don't know the stories until someone on the boards posts -- hey, I know this person, and you guys are being mean. What do we do? Hit alert, and the mods come, and tell that person that bashing of the contestants is okay. We know we're being mean. You are also being mean in your journals when you say that whatserface is getting fatter on Survivor while everyone else is gaining weight. But you know what? We love it. It's funny, and we all know at the same time that there's probably a good reason for so-and-so to be fat. Maybe she was abused as a child. Maybe she has the fat gene. Maybe she's a rollercoaster dieter and has fvcked up her metabolism. She probably cringed when she saw herself on TV, and here we all are, laughing at her when she's struggled with this her whole life. But that doesn't make you or I bad people, Larry. Are we being heartless? Yep. Are we getting joy from someone else's hardship? Sure. Is it right? Probably not. But it's fun. I enjoy basher threads more than any other threads. I laugh at the VFTW threads, even though I disagree with most of what people are saying. It's just funny stuff. I need a laugh. When you are doing the journals, I'm sure in the past you've been totally cognizant that, yes, you are making fun of people for their appearance, and yes, there is probably a deep-seeded reason for their appearance, because humans are complex beings, but you have chosen to be shallow. You've said this in your disclaimer, Larry. I've chuckled at it myself. Most of all, I guess the reason that bashing is easy for me, is because I love self-deprecating humour more than any other kind of humour. I deprecate on myself ALL THE TIME! They rip Taylor on the VFTW boards, but he is said to be "honoured" that he is their chosen one. I just love that. I was really pissed when I saw the McPhee's behaviour on TV. Kat's behaviour could be chalked up to inexperience and immaturity, as can her many bashable comments. But mother McPhee is like a can of stinky salmon Friskies left open on the counter, waiting for me to pounce upon. I hope you can decipher my ramblings to mean what I want them to mean, Larry. I absolutely *heart* you, even though I don't know you and for all I know you could be a heartless b!tch, and it would really bother me if you thought I was a bad person because I called Kat McQueen "Kat McQueen." *headbutt* Rolly made this. Desperate Housecats Edited to fix my b!tches.   Top

priestdi 378 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Cooking Show Host" 05-22-06, 02:54 AM (EST) 65. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" but the bottom line, for me, is it's part of the dark side to be needlessly nasty to our fellow humans. no matter how much it's gussied up with wit. there's just no higher good being served by it.   Top

archon 178 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 08:48 AM (EST) 67. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" But mother McPhee is like a can of stinky salmon Friskies left open on the counter, waiting for me to pounce upon. *snort* Sorry -- just loved that... While I do not think Kat is a slut, or that Elliot is smelly, or that Chris is hot (although, I did shave my head last week and Mrs. Archon did seem to like it alot --- hmmmm)... These contestants/judges/familes set themselves up for criticism and commentary! I didn't audititon to be on a TV show -- they did. I don't get paid for my musicial opinion - but the judges do. I don't stand in the studio audiance and get face time on national TV - but the families/friends do. Nobody put a gun to any of these peoples' heads and said "Be on TV or your meat". They ALL know the show. They ALL know the game. They ALL CHOOSE to play. Since they willingly and happily put a bulls-eye on their chest, is it wrong NOT to take a shot every now and then? In fact, I think I could argue the point that they WANT us to take shots at them. It all falls under the category of "There is no such thing as bad press". We talk, others talk, word get spread and people get popular/famous from it. Happens every day in the "reality tv" world. It is what they want. You cant tell me the winner wants to JUST be recognized as the best -- and then slip on into obscurity. They want what this exposure can bring them. So, do I have a right to form and voice an opinion about a contestant based on what I am permitted to see on my TV? Of course! If I think Paris is a talented mimmic and her song choices give me the impression she is a 17yearold slut -- I can say that. Doesn't mean I think she IS a 17yearold slut. But that is the impression I form by what I am seeing. If I think Kat is using her "ample assets" to lure more male voters to her side in lieu of a superior singing voice -- I can say that. Doesn't mean she IS playing up the sex card - it could just be how the producers are showcasing her. If I think Elliot is really bland and has to get his teeth fixed -- well, I can say that too (in this case, reality is the same as perception )... All we have to go by is what we see on TV. It may not be fair to judge them by these manipulated images - but then - unless you personally KNOW these people - what we form in our minds is reality. Afterall, what impressions do you have about Frisky? or Todd? or Glow? Or me? While we do not bash each other (as we are one big happy reality-tv-loving family) we do have mental images we form - just by the words we use to express our opinions. If we did not want to give an impression of ourselves - we would have just kept lurking... (oh, and for the record, I cant see ever forming a negative impression about Frisky ) Archon "You can get more with a 2x4 and a kind word than with just a kind word." (Marcus, B5)   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-22-06, 10:59 AM (EST) 68. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Yeah, archon and Frisky, all the above is valid, points taken. I guess there is a fine line between what annoys me and what doesn't in terms of the posts here and on other boards. I'm not asking that your right to snark (nor mine) be taken away. Somehow commenting on someone's weight, or manners, or hair, or lack-of-talent, or their choice of clothing (dreadful or otherwise) seems more humane to me than saying that someone is a whore or an 'evil, worthless person' and doesn't deserve to win because of it. Additionally, I guess the truth is, it becomes more real when instead of just a blob on your screen, it is a person who you happen to have contact with. Some of the attacks on Kat seem particularly personal and cruel, and I think people like you and I can tell when the line has been crossed. Every now and then I have crossed the line of good taste, and have apologized for it when I do. I guess I'm just asking people to be a little classier and a little less heartless. But in the end, people will do whatever they want, won't they? So maybe all I'm doing with the post above is letting people know that there are two sides to this discussion, and that I happen to fall on the side that thinks people are being too hard on Kat.   Top

archon 178 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 01:45 PM (EST) 75. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Todd... If I had a chip in this game, I would probably feel exactly like you do. You know Kat, so some of the abuse that most people would just laugh at -- well, it hits home for you. You are right -- some of the criticism leveled at the contestants has been past the line of good taste (and I will include myself here - for me, it is probably Paris)... ...commenting on someone's weight, or manners, or hair, or lack-of-talent, or their choice of clothing (dreadful or otherwise) seems more humane to me than saying that someone is a whore... Very true. Unfortunately for the contestants, while they can control some aspects of their performance, they cannot control what the producers decide to put on-air or how they do it. The producers are the ones that generate the image - and its that image that we base our impressions on. In reality-tv, the viewer is constantly being manipulated to think a certain way about a contestant. After all these years, we still fall prey to it. We need to look past the surface image into reality. I think most people here do that well... Archon "You can get more with a 2x4 and a kind word than with just a kind word." (Marcus, B5)   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 11:48 AM (EST) 69. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Finally, what is so wrong about making assumptions on someone based on repeated behavior which conforms to those assumptions? Because you haven't independently witnessed any behavior, nor have you directly witnessed any behavior in the context where that behavior occurs. You are, in effect, only seeing what you want to see.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-22-06, 01:29 PM (EST) 72. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" I will add to the above that you are only seeing what they want you to see, as testified to by those in the above posts, and they can be very, very manipulative. Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

tenmeters 202 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-22-06, 01:30 PM (EST) 73. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" You are, in effect, only seeing what you want to see. i think this statement is true for you weasel, for me, and for a lot of other people in this forum.   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 02:24 PM (EST) 77. "RE: In Offense of Katherine" Never said it wasn't true for me. It is. On the other hand, I'm not the one trying to make the claim that my opinion that someone is a "pretty offensive" human being is based on objective observation of that person's behavior.   Top

aquariaqueen 2616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Survivor-themed Cruise Spokesperson" 05-20-06, 10:55 PM (EST) 63. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Once again, I read and thoroughly enjoyed/understand your opinions. Although this post wasn't nearly as entertaining as your journal, I appreciate your insight in this manner. Best wishes to you.   Top

Magnolia_Rocker 2139 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Roller Coaster Inaugurator" 05-22-06, 08:34 AM (EST) 66. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Thank you, thank you, thank you Larry! I posted a while back on the Kat thread in the individual forum that I just could not understand how people could "hate" a person so much that they only knew from a reality show. Thanks for standing up for her and letting us know a bit more insight to her character. I think she's even more adorable now. Siggy thanks to Syren!   Top

Bravegirl 113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 11:53 AM (EST) 70. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Let me say right up front that I am not a Katherine fan, so everyone can now start shouting 'basher' now. BUT.......I have to say that even though Katherine may very well be a shy, awkward, girl with no confidence, she comes across as bitchy and arrogant. Is she really that way??? Who's to say??? A lot of people who lack confidence come across that way. They do it to cover up their insecurities. That said.......I absolutely can not understand WHY everyone makes such a big deal about Kat being criticized. Am I wrong or is that the whole premise of this show??? Anyone who goes on AI KNOWS that this is going to happen to them. Yes, they are going to be praised or criticized before the nation. That's how the show works! When Simon says that the performance was 'horrible' or 'karaoke', it is his opinion. Right or Wrong. And he is paid handsomely to give it! So if someone comes on one of these message boards and says that they believe that Katherine looks like a snot or sounds terrible, why is that so wrong?? It is their opinion and they are entitled to it. Right or Wrong. Heck, I've heard all kind of derogatory remarks about Paris, Ace, Taylor, Elliot and poor Mandisa. BUT.....No one jumps to their defense like poor little wonderful Kat. How come????   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-22-06, 01:04 PM (EST) 71. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" It's really not my fault (or my problem) that no one defends the others. The attacks against Kat have been pretty bad (and I happen to know first-hand that they are unfounded) so I chose to defend her. To all those demanding the right to bash the contestants... I'd like to say... Defending her is my right too, correct? Freedom of speech and all. Free country. Just sayin.   Top

tenmeters 202 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-22-06, 01:33 PM (EST) 74. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" i am not sure this post has swayed a lot of people one way or the other.   Top

Bravegirl 113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 01:52 PM (EST) 76. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Yes, ToddLJ, defending her is most certainly your right. As is giving my opinion about her talent and on-stage personality. I never said that it was or was your problem to defend the other contestants. You missed my point entirely. Which was....why should things be any different for Katherine??? If someone puts themselves into a competition where you they KNOW they are going to be criticized, why is everyone so shocked when it happens???????   Top

kiki_k 1444 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 02:51 PM (EST) 78. "Boo Hoo" Seriously, its nice and all that you know Kat, and I'm sure she is how you describe, BUT the fact is SHE put herself on MY tv -- that gives me the right to think and/or judge her anyway I want -- if she can't "handle" it, as you seem to imply, then she shouldn't be on this show. and btw -- I don't hate Kat, nor do I particularly like her, either. But even if I did "hate" her, that would be my right as a viewer. Let's not forget, if it wasn't for the viewers of AI, the show wouldn't be the ratings juggernaut that it is, and it wouldn't be giving Kat all the exposure that she is getting. That's how it works -- she wants the "good" things associated with being a contestent on AI, then she better learn to deal with the bad, too. I have zero sympathy for her.   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 03:41 PM (EST) 79. "Great big huge eye roll" Gads, people, get over it. It's a freakin' message board. In which bashing the contestants of these shows is not only allowed, but is encouraged. Sorry, Larry, but having been in a similar position with several reality show contestants of my acquaintance who have been unmercifully bashed in a very personal way, I have just learned to say what I know about them and then just let it go. A good example for me is Amber Brkich. She is one of the most reviled people to ever enter the reality universe. But I know her and her family and she is nothing like how she has been edited or how people perceive her. But I can't change anyone's mind about that and I have given up trying. You know that Kat is a nice girl and that's all that really matters. Same goes for me and Amber. Goddess of the Steeler Nation   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 03:45 PM (EST) 80. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" I have just learned to say what I know about them and then just let it go. No offense, but isn't that what Larry's trying to do?   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-22-06, 04:07 PM (EST) 81. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" Thanks for defending me weasel. Okay, I'm officially letting this go. Maybe no one's opinions were changed by this post, but at least it gave us all something to discuss (80 posts worth) while we're waiting for the finale. And it also voiced an opinion that clearly a lot of other people besides myself (see above the numerous "I agree" posts) have on this issue. Oh, and on a side note, please feel free to call ME a slutty, arrogant biotch. It would be accurate.   Top

tenmeters 202 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 05-22-06, 09:10 PM (EST) 91. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" LAST EDITED ON 05-22-06 AT 09:12 PM (EST) slutty, arrogant biotch| it just didn't feel right to say it to Larry.   Top

frisky 11695 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 10:51 PM (EST) 92. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" It feels right when you top it off with a little *spank*. Rolly made this. Desperate Housecats   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-22-06, 04:43 PM (EST) 84. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" I guess what I meant was it doesn't do much good to start a thread "in defense of." It just gets the people who hate the person you know and like all fired up to bash all the harder and more personally. I tried that and it just made me more upset for Amber. I might fire off a quick post if I feel the need to, for instance, say that Amber is in reality a very kind person, but then I tend to leave it at that. Starting a thread about it tends to put you in their crosshairs. People are going to think Kat's a slut or whatever because that is what they want to think, not the reality. And I just want Larry to save himself some heartache. Sorry, Larry, if I sounded snarky or whatever. But as soon as I saw this thread and some of the posts in it, I knew how you felt. At least, I think I did. And I know that you could say that Jesus himself had come down and annointed Kat as a shining example of perfect womanhood and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to those who want to tear her down. Goddess of the Steeler Nation   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-22-06, 06:20 PM (EST) 88. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" No worries, geg. I was trying to get the discussion going, and I guess I succeeded! And, I want to add, I think Amber is a Diva and she got rave reviews in my Gay Survivor Journal column (back when I used to care about Survivor.)   Top

Devious Weasel 18756 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-23-06, 11:37 AM (EST) 100. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" I thought Jesus annointed you the shining example of perfect womanhood? Or was that just a dream I had?   Top

geg6 14941 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-24-06, 10:39 AM (EST) 111. "RE: Great big huge eye roll" You are correct. I am. And that was a fantasy. Goddess of the Steeler Nation   Top

simba 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 04:26 PM (EST) 82. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I think that is very well said. Although I would prefer Taylor to win, I think that Katherine was right to tell the judges that they have been hard on her. Every year, they pick the one they want to win, and then a few weeks before hte finale, the judges change their tune and are hard on the other contestants. The definately wanted it to be an all guy thing this year. My husband wants Katherine to win. And he said that the Judges have been unfair, and especially to tell Katherine that she overdoes it, when she does not. And that she is pitchy when she is not. Eventhough she is not my favorite because of Taylor's charm and entertainment factor, I think Katherine does not deserve how mean people are being. I think she is sweet. And I also felt sorry for her that she did not have the home town support that the others had.   Top

Tahj 4136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-22-06, 04:35 PM (EST) 83. "Larry, can you answer this?" And I also felt sorry for her that she did not have the home town support that the others had. I was wondering why. Can you tell us Larry? Moves courtesy of Syren   Top

simba 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 06:02 PM (EST) 86. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" I was wondering this as well. My thought was partly that she is from the Hollywood CA area, and they are so used to celebrities that it is not a big deal to people there. It also isn't a small community like you would get in Alabama etc. And also, she is an attractive female. Maybe she is not really popular, and maybe her network is more her family. Just a thought. But I really felt sorry for her that she was not able to have that like the others. I am sure that had to have made her feel a little bad.   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-22-06, 06:14 PM (EST) 87. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" LAST EDITED ON 05-22-06 AT 06:21 PM (EST) It was a closed event, limited space. Mostly just school kids. So, unlike the other two events, there was no publicity of any kind regarding it. Local press didn't run anything about it and it wasn't on any of the news channels. There were no posters or banners annonucing it. Locals... even those aquainted with her and her family... weren't invited. The difference is that Taylor and Elliott's events were supported by their city and state governments, because Elliott and Taylor are considered celebrities. Here in LA 'celebrities' make up half the town. Simon made it sound like no one wanted to see Kat, but that's not the case at all. No one even knew it was happening.   Top

zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-22-06, 07:28 PM (EST) 89. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" I read on another board that it was in the local LA papers and on TV.... I also read that it was a closed event at the high school.   Top

KoalaChick 509 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 05-22-06, 07:32 PM (EST) 90. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" I also read that the city of Sherman Oaks wouldn't approve a parade permit. Bummer, it made it look like her hometown didn't really represent.   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-23-06, 01:18 AM (EST) 94. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" It wasn't in the papers and TV until after the fact. Reporters attended and covered the event.. but it wasn't anounced to the public beforehand.   Top

zazzy 4390 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Jerry Springer Show Guest" 05-23-06, 10:21 AM (EST) 97. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" LAST EDITED ON 05-23-06 AT 10:22 AM (EST) The post I read said it was in the papers before the event. The person who posted was from the area. I read it on a blog; the poster was frustrated about not being able to be in the high school and was part of the crowd waiting outside--thinking they would get a chance to cheer Kat as she arrived or left. The group waiting outside was too small, though, so that did not get in the clip (30 some people). It would take a lot to find that blog post at this point; in any event, Kat is F2 and should do a beautiful job tonight reprising her best performances.   Top

TODDLJ 421 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star" 05-23-06, 11:10 AM (EST) 98. "RE: Larry, can you answer this?" Sorry, I also live in the area, and I didn't see any pre-event article. Perhaps I overlooked it. Anyway, it certainly wasn't well publicized.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-23-06, 11:20 AM (EST) 99. "LOUSY PR?" If it's true that the producers and judges were gunning for an "all boy finale" (witness Randy's interviews in the weeks leading up to the visits home), then Kat's small PR events could have something to do with this. I am sure that if the producers had wanted to, they could have done a better job of drumming up support for her at home. Seems to me that they couldn't be bothered. Yet another example of how these folks (producers) "make sociology" as they attempt to manipulate outcomes. Too bad for them that most of the viewing public did not go along with their scheme. Kat made it to the finals anyway. Good for her. --Singer   Top

simba 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 01:53 PM (EST) 101. "RE: LOUSY PR?" I agree. It has been the same every time, as far as the Judges all of a sudden trying to manipulate the vite at the end. And I also, think they could have done more for Katherine. I was thinking about this today. I wonder if they see how many people vote each week, and then decide who they think will make the best records, have the best chance to make them money. And so they push down the others,and build the one they decide up. Just a thought. But what I don't understand is why they wouldn't want Katherine to win. It seems to me that her looks and singing would definately sell records. They could make her into a pop diva or a country singer, really. I love Taylor as my favorite after Chris, but I wonder where they can really go with the whole record thing with Taylor. And you know what really makes me mad. They keep comparing her to the big singers saying she is trying to be that good and is not. Well, I rally think she is that good. Maybe not like Whitney or Celine. But I think she runs a very close match with Aguilera or Mariah, with some more experience. I really think Katherine is that good vocally. And it is like no matter how good she does it, they knock her down. Even Paula. My husband are like, "Are they hearing the same performance as us?"   Top

niteowl0205 136 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 04:13 PM (EST) 106. "whitney/celine" Yeah, and I can't stand Whitney OR Celine (or Mariah, for that matter). I love Kat. She seemed really hurt that she didn't have the 'hometown support'. Southerners will always support someone more than the jaded hollywooders.   Top

simba 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 02:00 PM (EST) 102. "RE: LOUSY PR?" Oh, I just posted but had another thought. Also, when the Judges were leaning towards Fanstasia, and Ruben, they geared their final performances to totally suit them with their back up singers, and gospel type theme. It will be interesting to see if they make it better for Taylor than for Katherine. It seems to me I even remember one of the idols microphone giving an idol problems towards the end, that seemed kind of funny. I can't remember who it was, Bo maybe? I am not big on the whole "conspiracy theory" thing, but I do think that to some extent it is promoted to sway, definately. I am unsure about he phone system thing though.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-23-06, 02:41 PM (EST) 104. "AGREE?" with both of your posts, Simba. I've been saying this to myself all along, esp. as far as the producer manipulation thing is concerned. They do the same thing on the Apprentice and other "reality" television shows. The thing with talent shows is that the singers will do well for themselves if the producers would get out of the way. And I would respect the judges more if they would simply tell the truth, the musical truth, about a performance. I am in love with Taylor, but I cannot stand by and watch them drub Katherine for no good reason. She's the best technical singer up there (and she's passionate), and he is the best performer up there. Either of them would make a good winner, because they touch people musically in different ways. There's no reason for the producers to sway the show by giving one singer more time on stage than another (like they did with Elliott and Kat), or to give one singer better lighting or costumes than others. Just let them sing. The viewers can hear if a person is a good or bad performer. At least that's what I think. --Singer   Top

Irishbear0987 17 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 05-22-06, 06:00 PM (EST) 85. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Thank you! Finnally someone states the truth!   Top

SeniorCitizen 57 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Hollywood Squares Square" 05-22-06, 11:32 PM (EST) 93. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" A few years ago I volunteered to run for city council in my town when an entrenched majority had made a series of bad decisions. I yielded happily in favor of another candidate who shared my opinions but who had a strong base (related to half the people in the county). I yielded to him happily because I knew that many people feel the same way as some on this board. The idea that when someone volunteers to become a 'public' person that their characters and lives are open to ridicule and slander has become established in the minds of many if not most Americans. I still feel that American Idol should be about talent and entertainment. All the finalists had these qualities to some degree. Gauche and a little awkward they may be at times, but both the finalists keep me interested and entertained in a positive way. I really feel that I like both of them almost as friends as I have watched them through the weeks. I guess that is what makes the difference. To some of use they are people, to others they are media creations, DAWs, mere objects of derision. When I finally stopped reading from the sidelines and accepted the title of DAW in order to make posts, I started out with a more sarcastic point of view. I made some unkind remarks about Kelly that I now regret. Since then I have realized that for my own sake I needed to humanize my attitude.   Top

jags 124 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 08:28 AM (EST) 95. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Amazing, I was not going to post for this message. But after reading your post I feel I must. I have been defending Kat since all these cruel comments started. I came to realize that the reason it was not so rampant was because people were being cruel to others such as Kelli and Paris, But when they left all that was left was Kat. You know it was okay to joke about someones dancing or facial expressions because it was in fun. I understand everyone does not like the same future Idols, but why say the cruel things things that were said about her character, family and friends. As I mentioned before none of us know these performers well of enough to comment on there character. I appreciate the fact that you admitted that you fell into the trap of following the pack and not making comments based on what we know, and not from the comments that we hear about them. This has been one of the most diverse competitions that I have seen and would like to see it end on a great note. JAGS   Top

simba 8 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 10:15 AM (EST) 96. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" I appreciate your honesty. I am a Taylor fan. My husband is a Katherine fan. And I also, saw some of the posts, and I was starting to believe what they were saying about her. After it was pointed out, I did feel it was wrong of Katherine to not look sad when Elliott was voted out. And I also was getting a little tired of Katherine trying so hard to act sexy and ogle the camera during her performances. It seemed a little over the top. I do think she is extremely talented though. I was teetering between thinking she is sweet, and thinking she is a little self-absorbed. But then I saw the post about her above, in defense of her. And I really saw that she is younger than Taylor and may not have realized to be a little more careful about her expressions. She also is in a different boat with the Judges really slamming her unreasonably every week, which I already thought. And I just saw the point about how she is dealing with all of this, and how she may present herself because of it. So, now I am more apt to not jump to criticize. However, I had never posted before, so never said bad things about her. Some of these people it seems need to not slam someone ever a singing contest. I am sure that these kids read these boards, and it must be very hard for them. I think we all should keep that in mind and not be so mean spirited. Anyway, I thought your post was nice. It takes a lot for these kids to get up there and try like they do. I did notice that the guys this year were less sensitive, and have not taken Simon to heart and laugh it off more. Good for them! Taylor os one that seems not to take Simon seriously, and Chris also seemed to laugh off his remarks.   Top

Bravegirl 113 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 02:02 PM (EST) 103. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" Taylor has been very wise to ignore Simon's comments and laugh them off. If he had listened to Simon and 'toned down' his performances, I do not believe he would be in the finals. Simon was dead wrong about his advice to Taylor. I do not, however, believe that the judges have been 'slamming Katherine unreasonably'. They have been just as hard on other contestants. They are there, afterall, to voice thier opinions. I do not think that it is necessary to be nasty to the contestants but they (meaning Simon) do it to everyone. How many times has Simon told Taylor that he looks like a 'drunk' or a 'cheap karaoke performer'?????? Again.....if you're going to put yourself into the AI spotlight, you had better be able to take criticism without whining.   Top

singer 1910 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Herbal Healing Drugs Endorser" 05-23-06, 03:06 PM (EST) 105. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" "if you're going to put yourself into the AI spotlight, you had better be able to take criticism without whining." Up to a point. Simon admitted that he had been dumping on Katherine unfairly at one point during the season. He also apologised for having done so. Giving good, solid musical criticism is one thing. Saying mean and unconstructive things about a singer to get viewer responses or votes to sway in a certain direction is something else again. No one is suggesting that judges not critique. Many people on these boards are suggesting that they should be fair and balanced in that process. Too often, they have not been. (Note how they pimped That Pickle, while being extremely hard on Paris, who was clearly a superiour singer with extraordinary range, especially for a kid her age. Note how they looked over Taylor's pitch problems, while nailing Katherine on the same issue during the same shows.) I could go on and on about the inconsistencies, but I won't bother here. My main point is that the judges are all experienced professionals. They should pay close attention to what they really hear, rather than to what the producers tell them to say. --Singer   Top

Magalie18 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 05-23-06, 06:25 PM (EST) 107. "RE: In Defense of Katherine" LAST EDITED ON 05-23-06 AT 06:41 PM (EST) Why does she care what people have been saying about her? Why wait until now to speak up? That was too convenient. That won't change her haters' mind and make them vote for her or like her. If she is in the final two now, that's because those who voted her didn't care who she is. In other words, they don't have to know who the heck you are to like you, dislike you, criticize you or sing your praise when you are in a competition. I myself don't hate her or like her, I never voted for her and I'm not voting for her tonight either. And even if I had just found out in that post that she had donated one of her kidneys anonymously or whatever, I still wouldn't vote for her. LOL Good Luck to both Contestants. May the best performer win! Well, I do hope it's Taylor. He's cute and mad funny and he can sing too   Top

cqvenus 9765 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 05-23-06, 10:46 PM (EST) 110. "late bloomer" that's me, not katharine. i just want to say that i've arrived late to this party, and add that i agree with people that she's on a TV show, she has to deal, while simultaneously pointing out that you can't judge a book by its (heavily edited, created for ratings) cover, thereby contributing absolutely nothing of value to this conversation, and seizing this opportunity to use this new sig line. ~ cq The permanent scar could have been one of the lamest moments in Idol history. -- Fishercat, on Ace   Top

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