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talljenna 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-14-01, 00:20 AM (EST) "Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." Interesting night! I sensed within a few minutes that Brandon was going nowhere. Frank and Brandon hated one another. There was no way they would coexist even if it was strategically beneficial for both of them to do so. Brandon hoped to gain the trust of the Boran members, and he lost. Frank hoped to lure somebody over and won. I also predicted before the show that Tom was the most likely to jump ship. He did, and I think it was for more than one vote. He obviously lost all faith in Lex as a leader, and I think he sincerely trusts Frank. Add Teresa and LilKim to the mixture and Tom is in Hog Heaven! Lex made a huge blunder in targeting Kelly. His gut was wrong, and it destroyed his tribe. Yet he was not wrong about Brandon. Brandon intended all along to stay loyal--his dislike for Frank insured that. Lex was also correct in seeing Frank as the biggest remaining Samburu threat--not Brandon. The biggest losers? Lex was already a target, but Ethan and Mamakim just sealed their fate. Tom has absolutely no reason to stay loyal to Boran. Ethan and Lex are far greater IC threats than anyone in Samburu. Tom was likely the 4th wheel because of MamaKim's inability to pose any threat in IC challenges. Lex will likely be the first target if he loses Immunity, but if not Ethan will go. Tom in the final 4 with Frank, Teresa and LilKim? Yes Ethan & Mamakim are the big losers tonight. This time they should have followed their leader. talljenna   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... J Slice 12-14-01 1  RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... shanana banana 12-14-01 2    Agree AyaK 12-14-01 4    Tom appears to have more options th... talljenna 12-14-01 5        RE: Tom appears to have more option... shanana banana 12-14-01 8            Ethan talljenna 12-14-01 10                RE: Ethan Loree 12-14-01 20            RE: Tom appears to have more option... runningchicken 12-14-01 14    Nope Afreaqua 12-14-01 17        RE: Nope ADKer 12-16-01 27  RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... namssa 12-14-01 3    RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... ivoryElephant 12-14-01 6  LilKim & Teresa talljenna 12-14-01 7  Is Brandon stupid? mookiemeister 12-14-01 9    RE: Is Brandon stupid? Afreaqua 12-14-01 18  These Bunch of Surivors make no sen... Seyz 12-14-01 11    RE: These Bunch of Surivors make no... kellyn 12-14-01 12        Why was Kim P so desparate to win? katethegreat 12-14-01 13            RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to w... shanana banana 12-14-01 15                RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to w... samiam 12-14-01 16                RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to w... BCGuy 12-14-01 19                    RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to w... Kaumanaboy 12-14-01 21                        RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to w... kellyn 12-14-01 22  If I were Tom . . . . flyfly 12-14-01 23    RE: If I were Tom . . . . flyfly 12-14-01 24  RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... heymikey 12-15-01 25    RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... anotherkim 12-15-01 26    RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and... Loree 12-16-01 28

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J Slice 13166 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-01, 00:31 AM (EST) 1. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." I was getting tired of Ethan and Mamakim anyway... such lemmings to that moron, Lex! Glad Tom jumped ship, he seems like a nice enough guy... a shame he'll probably be the one who gets dumped around the final 4 or 3... way too nice to keep around, unless someone decides to be as moronic as Colby and spoonfeed Tom the mil. I've got my eye on Frank. creepy as he is, I'm almost sure he's gonna go far. Besides, with Tom and T, it's all gravy... I have a bad vibe that as soon as Lex is gone, LilKim is next, though D: Liked her, too. *sigh* this one's a ##### to predict! -=J=-   Top

shanana banana 658 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-14-01, 00:52 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." I'm not so sure about Ethan and Momma Kim being the losers tonight. I think old Boran will regroup next week (even Lex) -- after all, they finally got their majority back and they would be completely stupid to allow themselves to go back to even numbers with old Samburu. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Tom may be irritated with Lex (and it appears Ethan is too, the way he questioned him about who he was more loyal to, his old friends or new friend Brandon) but Tom will stick with Ethan and Momma Kim, I'm sure. And Lex will go along with them now -- he has no choice. Old Samburu members will only survive now if they can win immunity challenges. At least this is the way it SHOULD go! LOL. But who knows what the hell this crazy bunch is going to do next. There appears to be no rhyme or reason to this year's Survivor. shanana banana   Top

AyaK 10426 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-01, 01:20 AM (EST) 4. "Agree" I agree, shanana banana. I think Ethan is actually the person who put this all together, though MB didn't show us that. Lex told Ethan and Tom that they were free to vote out Brandon of they could get the votes without him, and he fretted that they'd create a monster that would lead to Boran getting booted. But Ethan was too smooth to end up with that result. No one had to swear on their first-born sons, and yet I think everyone from both tribes ended up going along with the boot except for Lex. Ethan, Tom and Mama Kim are still a Boran team, and Lex will rejoin them for a while, as Frank and Kim P. are voted off.   Top

talljenna 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-14-01, 01:30 AM (EST) 5. "Tom appears to have more options than Brandon..." Yes Tom was joined by Ethan and Mamakim in this vote, but only Tom was approached by Frank. This appeared more than a "one vote" handshake to me. What advantage did Old Boran gain by targeting Brandon over Frank? None IMHO. Yes they were unsure whether or not Brandon could be trusted. Yet they all knew Frank was 100% committed to Samburu. The chance for any other Samburu to "switch" was eliminated when Brandon crossed over, and Frank was also tightly aligned with Teresa. Brandon was an obvious target--Boran knew this, and they wasted a chance to eliminate the biggest Samburu threat remaining--Frank. They could have gained an advantage, and safely booted Brandon in a week or two. But once again (as with Kelly) they leave themselves vulnerable. Tom has a choice. He is obviously frustrated with Lex, and Frank/Teresa/LilKim need someone. He may indeed stay loyal, but the door is open for him should he decide to leave. If Frank was booted, it would have been Old Boran 4, Samburu 2, and Brandon one. The chances of any defections are eliminated. Not now. If I am Tom, I leave in a heartbeat. As I said, he will not win an IC challenge against Ethan or Lex. Against Frank, Teresa and LilKim? Possible. talljenna   Top

shanana banana 658 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-14-01, 01:54 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Tom appears to have more options than Brandon..." But on the other hand, if Brandon is not to be trusted it's best to get rid of him now (Ethan's viewpoint), especially because Lex is all of a sudden Brandon's new best friend. What if they did vote out Frank, then Brandon switched back to Samburu, taking Lex's vote with him? Seems unlikely, but the way Lex was strangely swearing his loyalty to Brandon had to be disconcerting to both Ethan and Tom. Like Ethan said, Brandon may be loyal to you (Lex), but he's not to me, Tom, or Momma Kim. I think Ethan sounded a bit pissed in that conversation he had with Lex where he was asking him what his levels of loyalty were between old friends and new. Maybe it was best to get rid of Brandon before they find out what other trouble he can stir up, perhaps with Lex at his side now. After all, Lex did turn on two Boran members over Samburu members in the last tribal councils and he's appearing more than a little unstable. I think it was time for Ethan to cut the leadership head off of Lex. One thing is for sure, I was quite pleased with Ethan's take charge persona that was shining through in tonight's episode. I think he's doing a lot more behind the scenes planning than we are getting to see. This gives me hope that he's going far in the game. shanana banana   Top

talljenna 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-14-01, 02:09 AM (EST) 10. "Ethan" Obviously my loyalty (and silly crushes) belong to Ethan. I want him to win! Yes Lex is shaky, but I think they (Mamakim and Ethan) should have intervened a week before. They all agreed to boot Kelly. Only Tom appeared distraught over this decision. If booting Brandon was a message to Lex, then it was indeed a bold one. I think Ethan and Mamakim need to make a secret deal with Tom assuring him that Lex will be the first target once Samburu is whittled down. They can't be blind to the fact that Tom has bonded with all of Samburu. Ethan, Lex (excluding Brandon) and Mamakim have not. They have to at least be concerned that Tom could defect. If Frank was gone he had no choice but to remain loyal.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-01, 05:02 PM (EST) 20. "RE: Ethan" Ethan and MamaKim can't really guarantee Tom that he will not be voted out first of the final 4 and that Lex will. What if Lex wins the IC that week? Would Tom believe that Ethan and MamaKim would vote against each other instead of Tom if Lex won that immunity?   Top

runningchicken 15 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 10:44 AM (EST) 14. "RE: Tom appears to have more options than Brandon..." I agree. Brandon was too untrustworthy to keep around. Lex would much rather go to the F2 with Brandon than Ethan, Mama Kim or Tom if he has any brains. If I were Tom I would have never trusted Brandon to vote off Frank no matter what he said. He was too dangerous and Tom did the smartest thing he could do. Frank hasn't seemed too great in challenges anyway plus he doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed so I don't think they are as intimidated by him as people think. As far as Tom switching to OS that would be the stupidest move he could possibly make. Pissing off your old tribe won't do you any favors in the F2. The only reason Kelly lost to Richard in S1 was because she gave people the impression she was trying to play both sides of the fence and they didn't like it.   Top

Afreaqua 181 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 01:40 PM (EST) 17. "Nope" "but Tom will stick with Ethan and Momma Kim, I'm sure. " Dontcha know that when 2 rednecks shake hands there aint hardly nothin' that'll break that agreement.   Top

ADKer 143 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-16-01, 00:01 AM (EST) 27. "RE: Nope" I have been waiting for posts to start referring to the "RNA" - red neck alliance. I did not see Tom and Frank shake hands in an alliance, but maybe I missed it. Frank is abrasive and insensitive but also trustworthy and straightforward. If Tom said he would align with Frank and Teresa, I think he would stick with it. I think that Tom is reluctant to betray Ethan and Momma Kim, and maybe Lex, who may be a decent person despite having gone off the deep end. I don't think Tom will betray his Boranmates unless they do something to deserve it.   Top

namssa 24 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 00:54 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." Don't be too sure. Sure Tom switched over to vote with Frank but so did everyone else. MamaKim and Ethan also voted out Brandon. I'm not so convinced that next week Tom will stick with Boran and vote out Frank or Teressa. Boran now has a 4-3 lead and although it is shaky (thanks to some of Lex's idiotic moves) it still may hold together for a few more episodes. I think Tom is still somewhat aligned for now.   Top

ivoryElephant 2257 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model" 12-14-01, 01:39 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." These survivors are more unpredictable than the Seattle Seahawks! (beat a good team, lose to a bad team) I think I read somewhere that Kelly said alliances were switched dozens of times a day. So even though Tom switched he can always switch again. This is why the show is so exciting this time. The alliances aren't firm. Except we know now that Kim J will stick with her "special friend" Ethan. "What a twisted web we weave when at first we practice to deceive"   Top

talljenna 35 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 12-14-01, 01:51 AM (EST) 7. "LilKim & Teresa" I must once again add that part of my logic is based on Tom's obvious lust for women. Oh, but that is a dumb way to play this game! True, but we have seen how much "gut instinct" emotions, and hatred have skewed otherwise sound logic. Tom's lust may indeed be his weakness. Or his strength? If Frank's handshake cannot lure Tom over, then Teresa's southern charm or LilKim's breasts may! This game defies logic, so anything can happen! Next week instead of Lex's gut, it will be Tom's........ talljenna   Top

mookiemeister 284 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-14-01, 01:58 AM (EST) 9. "Is Brandon stupid?" Brandon mentioned his strategy during the previous tribal council when he voted out Kelly that he plan to rejoin his original Samburu tribe. It was good strategy. Why did he not explain this to Samburu? He has ample chances to do this. His RC win with Frank is a perfect chance to put aside the difference and for him to explain to Frank an easy road to final 4. Neither Frank nor Brandon deserve to win this game! They put their emotional hatred of each other ahead of the game. This is no way to play the game. Also, he basically gave up the game when he told KimP that she can vote for him if she wanted. Man, how stupid can he be? Try to explain to her the reason why you couldn't tell her about voting for Kelly. It's only because KimP was close to Kelly and Brandon didn't want KimP to accidentally spill something to Kelly. Brandon not explaining his plan to his Samburu tribe and then telling KimP that she could vote for him ultimately led to his demise.   Top

Afreaqua 181 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 01:51 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Is Brandon stupid?" I don't agree....well I agree that Brandon is stupid but... "Neither Frank nor Brandon deserve to win this game! They put their emotional hatred of each other ahead of the game. This is no way to play the game." Frank didn't put his emotions ahead of the game....last episode he said while he didn't like Brandon he would align with him for the sake of the game. Then Brandon turned around and PROOVED beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was untrustworthy. I posted somewhere last week that Samburu didn't need Brandon if they could get an old Boran over to their side...which Frank did....what's more he shook on it and everyone knows what a handshake means to Frank. Actually when Frank said he never went back on a handshake I thought "Oh how corney and rednecked of you....can't you think of a fun story?"....but who knows....he did establish the one way to ensure his trustworthiness. Perhaps he shook hands with Theresa too. I'm seeing the final four being Frank, Theresa, Tom and someone else *insert mysterious music here* It would be nice if it were Ethan. We need a bleeding heart liberal to offset the rednecks and the southern charm. The jury would be in a quandry if forced to choose between a combination of any of these; Ethan, Theresa, Tom. Each are highly likable.   Top

Seyz 198 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Blistex Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 03:49 AM (EST) 11. "These Bunch of Surivors make no sense at all!!!" Um.. why is voting so sporadic and unpredictable? Why doesn't anyone stick with their alliances? Why did KimP vote off the only person who would never vote her off? I can see why Kelly said that there would be a lot more fun at the lodge as people got booted. I can see Kelly and Brandon having fun. Who else would she probably have fun with? Probably KimP, Ethan, Theresa. I think KimP just put herself in a dangerous situation. She's in an outnumbered tribe.. and she voted off her only real ally (I really think that Brandon would've protected her or taken a bullet for her, esp. after he said his final words) Now.. she has no real allies.. she's on the losing tribe.. and she's an immunity threat. If the Borans stick together.. she might be as gone as soon as next episode.. eeps.. that would back up Kelly's "fun at the lodge" comment. The Only way KimP can make it to the final 4 is if Tom defects from the Borans.. and I don't think he will.. Why did the Samburu not try harder to pull Brandon back , instead of giving him the cold shoulder? They've pretty much killed themselves. sigh.. now I think the Final 4 is Tom/Lex/MK/Ethan.. and now.. by the looks of it.. Lex may have a shot at the final 2.. weird....(and just last week.. I thought the samburus would be the final 4) I'm rooting for KimP.. but her voting for Brandon bugged me... it didn't seem like the right move for her.. you want allies in this game....   Top

kellyn 7 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 09:31 AM (EST) 12. "RE: These Bunch of Surivors make no sense at all!!!" LAST EDITED ON 12-14-01 AT 09:32 AM (EST) i used to think kimp is just a harmless person..apparently she's stupid too...okok..im biased..i agree that when she voted brandon off, she voted off her only true ally and friend. i mean ex-samburu owe no loyalties to her, and i think boran will go back to pagong off the samburus one by one. Also she proved that shes a strong immunity threat to reckon with, anywae i dun understand why she was so desperate to win the IC, did she think she was in any danger of being voted out? so i think kimp wun last long.... my first message..but well i have to start somewhere   Top

katethegreat 207 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-14-01, 09:57 AM (EST) 13. "Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" I agree that it seemed weird that Kim P was so desparate to win the IC. Was she worried about getting voted out, or did she want to make sure someone else (Lex?) didn't get immunity . . . It reminded me of when Teresa won the first individual IC, when Clarence was the one who needed it, but T didn't really need it. Do these people have any strategy beyond today, one challenge?   Top

shanana banana 658 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 12-14-01, 12:25 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" >>>>I agree that it seemed weird that Kim P was so desparate to win the IC. Was she worried about getting voted out, or did >she want to make sure someone else (Lex?) didn't get immunity . . . ======================= Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Kim P was trying so hard to win the challenge to make sure that Lex *didn't* win it. I'm sure Lex was their target vote again for the TC and perhaps they were hoping that Brandon at that point would rejoin them to help vote him off. In a 4-4 tiebreaker, Lex is gone. But after he won the IC they had to rethink their whole game plan -- perhaps they were simply pissed that Brandon had shot their whole chance at getting rid of Lex by not helping to vote him off last week, now this week he's got immunity -- B will obviously stick by him again this week since Lex is safe from the vote and so in anger they knew there was nothing else they could do and they got rid of the person who screwed it all up in the first place. shanana banana   Top

samiam 5976 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-14-01, 01:29 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" I've thought about this a lot, and my first thought was that she was trying to make sure Lex *didn't* win. However, IIRC, when she thought Frank had won (when he was disqualified), she also was visibly upset, collapsing in the sand before she realized the challenge wasn't over. This tells me that she wasn't just upset that Lex won, but that she lost. There's something here MB isn't showing us, the smeaky bastige. "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."   Top

BCGuy 4 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 01:52 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" I think the original Samburus would have regrouped to vote off Lex if Lex did not win immunity. However, after Lex won immunity, the only other Boran with prior votes that Samburu could have vote off based on a 4-4 tie breaker at TC was Tom...and Frank would not go along with that. As a result, any attempt to pull the original Samburu back together fell apart. I think Kim P. was deparate to win immunity because it was Samburus only chance to regroup.   Top

Kaumanaboy 19 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Got Milk? Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 07:33 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" Could be that she figured that if Frank won imunity she would be the target from OS. Then when Lex won, there goes who they would vote for. Also, she seems to be bonding with Tom, so with Lex immune, she would have to vote for Tom to save her old tribe. After all the backstabbing from previous TC's, she probably said screw it, I'll vote for the one who stabbed me in back by messing up all my work to get Lex out last time. By the way, I really like this board rather than the other board that will remain nameless (SS), it's much more friendly towards people just throwing ideas out there, good or bad.   Top

kellyn 7 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 09:15 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Why was Kim P so desparate to win?" well i think kimp didnt want lex to win it.I dont think frank is happy with lex's "leadership" position in boran. i dunnoe but i think frank and lex both want to lead with their bossy characters. I think OS may want to vote out lex next wk, but i think kimp is in a vulnerable position. i dun see really anyone left that kimp is truly allied with. I mean people may like her, but when it comes to voting, they may want to vote kimp who has proved herself more than a substantial immunity threat.I think next IC she'll probably be more desperate (that will be funny)Anywae all this is guesswork, because i really cant figure these people out.   Top

flyfly 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 09:57 PM (EST) 23. "If I were Tom . . . ." Not that I would ever wish to be, but if I were Tom I would do my damnedest to boot Kim P. this week. Why? That leaves a 3 to 3 tie next week. If Lex wins immunity, I'd stay with the original Boran alliance and no one's the wiser -- realizing that all of Samburu will probably vote for me or Ethan, but Boran will win anyway because it'll be 4 to 3. Then I get to come in 3rd for sure and maybe get a shot at final 2 because Lex is making an ass of himself. If Lex fails to win immunity next week, I would vote with old Samburu agains Lex. Old Boran would vote against Frank -- who I like better than Lex anyway, and probably more than Ethan, too, though Ethan has not done anything to get me worried -- and Lex would lose because he has more votes than Frank. I'd get to hang out with Teresa for a while, who's hotter than MamaKim (remember I'm thinkin' like Tom here) and maybe take Frank to final 2. No one likes him anyway and in a showdown, they'd choose me over Frank. What a hoot, a good ole' boy coup!   Top

flyfly 5 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson" 12-14-01, 10:02 PM (EST) 24. "RE: If I were Tom . . . ." "realizing that all of Samburu will probably vote for me or Ethan, but Boran will win anyway because it'll be 4 to 3." OK, I'm a newbie, I meant, "realizing that all of Samburu will probably vote for me or Ethan, but Boran will win anyway because it'll be 4 to 2" next week if KimP is gone and Lex wins immunity.   Top

heymikey 238 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star" 12-15-01, 08:19 PM (EST) 25. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." >>> He obviously lost all faith in Lex as a leader,... I don't think that is the real reason why he went against Lex and voted off Brandon. He just hates Brandon because he's gay and Frank seems to be the kind of guy who has the same beliefs as he does.   Top

anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-15-01, 10:31 PM (EST) 26. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." I don't think Tom ever said he hated Brandon for being gay--he wasn't happy with him because he couldn't be trusted. I think Tom made it clear that he liked Brandon as a personjust fine--different that any of his other frineds, but interesting. They are still friends, too, so he must not be too anti-gay. Brandon switched teams and lefthis best friend in the dust. Tom was smart to doubt him--had KimP played along, Tom would have been correct. Kim If it's a mental challenge, we're screwed... Big Tom on his partnership with Lil' Kim   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 12-16-01, 12:04 PM (EST) 28. "RE: Lex's gut, Tom's handshake, and the real losers......." I think Lex had Tom convinced that the Samburus would vote for Tom since he had the most votes. So Tom had to find a way to save himself. He knew Frank didn't like Brandon and decided to make a deal to save himself. Now that TC is over and I think Tom will wait and see who wins the next IC and who looks vulnerable. Tom will do what is best for Tom. If Lex/Ethan/MamaKim all agree to vote together then Tom will probably vote with them to be in the majority. But if Lex and Ethan disagree on the vote I could see Tom just moving over to vote with Frank and Teresa.   Top

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