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mindysue 39 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge" 11-30-01, 08:53 AM (EST) "reading of the votes" I have a question. Does Jeff look at all the votes prior to reading them? He says that he goes and "tallies the votes". When Silas was voted out, Frank's vote was not read. Since there were 5 votes for Silas and only 1 for Frank, only the first 4 votes were read and all were Silas. When Clarence was voted out both of Lex's votes were read to the council. Since 8 people voted for Clarence only six of Clarence's votes needed to be read out and Lex's could have stayed hidden. Why was this done, to create controversy? to hide Frank?   Top

Subject     Author     Message Date     ID    RE: reading of the votes anotherkim 11-30-01 1    RE: reading of the votes zzz 11-30-01 2        RE: reading of the votes PepeLePew13 11-30-01 3            RE: reading of the votes zzz 11-30-01 4                RE: reading of the votes Loree 11-30-01 5

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anotherkim 14420 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-30-01, 09:14 AM (EST) 1. "RE: reading of the votes" Yes, he looks at them. he and I would assume MB arrange them so that there is some air of mystery about them. As to why he reads some and not others, there has never been an explanantion. I sure would like to see it come up in a post-Survivor interview. That part stinks, IMHO. Kim   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-30-01, 09:36 AM (EST) 2. "RE: reading of the votes" kim is abolutely right. I think it is clear that MB arranges the votes before they are read and tells Jeff P how to read them. Sometimes he reveals all but "pile on" votes for the loser and other times he hides votes. There is no justification for why he does this, but he clearly does this. I think he tries to protect potentially weaker players (like Frank who was in a weak position by having only Teresa left as an ally) and hurt potentially strong players (like Lex who was the perceived leader of the biggest alliance). More than anything, I think MB likes reversal of fortune stories because they are more interesting and less predictable. If the winner is obvious from the beginning it is not that interesting. But if someone that looked like they were out of it comes back to win, that is interesting (at least to MB). He also tries to protect people he finds "interesting", e.g., that he thinks may cause conflict or are otherwise entertaining to have around. So MB will do anything in his power (like choosing challenges that favor one tribe or person over another--or revealing or hiding votes) to help people he wants to help and hurt people he wants to hurt. MB does NOT view this game an a completely fair and objective "gameshow" rather he is trying to tell an interesting story. He gets a lot of criticism for this approach, including from me who wishes it were more "fair", but I "fear" that if I got my way I would quickly find the show quite boring. Maybe MB knows what he is doing, or maybe he is just a jack-ass--you decide.   Top

PepeLePew13 26134 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-30-01, 09:54 AM (EST) 3. "RE: reading of the votes" >Maybe MB knows what he is doing, or maybe >he is just a jack-ass--you decide. I think he is both. I certainly can understand his desire to hide/show throw-away votes to create drama but I cannot understand why the lawyers aren't all over this already. You're right, MB does NOT view this game an a completely fair and objective "gameshow" rather he is trying to tell an interesting story. But he's fidding around with the lives of 16 people who may need the $100,000 or $5,000 or the million (depending on where they finish) to make an impact on their lives, and any time you offer big time money - it IS a game show and hiding some votes can have a huge impact on where, let's say, Frank finishes. Frank could end up with $100,000 because people didn't know his vote instead of let's say $5,000 if his vote got revealed and half of the tribe decided to target him to go in a tiebreak. I believe that this issue is going to prove out to be insignificant in the overall scheme of the game, i.e. the tiebreak won't be needed to decide Frank's placement in the game, but certain people can certainly use this vote-hiding as a weapon against MB in any lawsuits in the future (or in the past as with Stacey's). "Damn you, Carl, for leaving me here with a bunch of misfits." Frank Garrison, Nov. 1/01   Top

zzz 703 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator" 11-30-01, 10:13 AM (EST) 4. "RE: reading of the votes" I understand your desire to find evidence of MB doing something "illegal" but I don't think even if we could PROVE that he did these things to help or hurt a contestant it would help Stacey's case ot anyone else's case against MB. The reason is this--Stacey is claiming MB directly affected who people would vote for by conferring with them. I think if that fact could be proved, MB would lose. It is clearly against Survivor rules for the producers to try to tell players who to vote for or who not to vote for. But just because MB cannot talk to the players to try to get them to change votes, it does not mean MB is prohibitted from affecting the outcome. These people came on the show knowing what the rules would be. The rules are that MB can pick challenges and arrange vote tallying however he wants for whatever reason he wants. That is clearly contemplated by the rules and MB is allowed to do it--even though I think it diminishing the meaningfulness of the game. Remember what the original purpose behind the law was. In the 50s, the game show 21 had players win week after week by being given answers to questions. The audience and the opponents, however, had no way to know this was going on. Thus, it was a fraud on the audience and the opponents. If the rules stated that the producers could give answers to anyone the producers wanted to give answers to and this was known by all the players--it would not have been a problem at all. If you are willing to go on a show in which the producers can make you lose because they like someone else better--that is your problem. The courts are not going to step in and say such a show cannot be produced. To bring this to our situation--everyone knows that MB picks the challenges and arranges the vote tallies. This is not secret. The players and the audience know that MB choses these things at his discretion. MB does not publish a rule that says challenges are picked out a hat at random with 100 possible challenges in the hat. MB does not publish a rule that says the votes will be picked out of the box at random but will stop once additional vote reading is irrelevant. If those were the rules and MB secretly violated them--then you would have a successful lawsuit if you could prove it. But MB has made his discretion clear in the rules--that is the game the players signed up for--and that is the game they are stuck with. So MB can legally continue to mess with the game to his liking as long as he limits his interference to the things in the rules that give him discretion.   Top

Loree 8616 desperate attention whore postings DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold" 11-30-01, 01:39 PM (EST) 5. "RE: reading of the votes" I think in some ways MB ends up like us. He picks his perfect 16 players and then some of them don't live up to his expectations and he gets upset and wants them off his show. We feel that way but have nothing we can do about it. MB can only do so much. He wanted Rudy to stay in the first Survivor. He found Nick turned out to be very boring on the S2 (keeping a low profile) after acting completely different during the interview process. We kept wondering why Nick was being kept under the radar. Turns out he never did or said anything interesting to show us. So MB ended up ignoring him for most of the show. MB uses his favourites to narrate the story and entertain the audience. He really doesn't want those characters voted off. He was upset with the laziness of some of the young Pagongs on S1. Both MB and Jeff complained about them. Greg had the nerve not to take his show serious. I think MB felt the same about the mall rats on S3. So he tried to shake them up this time. How dare they do nothing and sleep on his show. They were hired to entertain!   Top

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