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"What's behind the editing?"
Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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11-24-01, 02:18 AM (EST)
 
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"What's behind the editing?" |
Mark Burnett can’t control the outcome of the game. He may try to influence it with the situations he creates, or the challenges he selects, but who wins them and who gets voted out is, for the most part, out of his control.What he can control, are the things he chooses to show us, or not show us. Every week he has 72 hours of footage, from multiple cameras, from which he only has to show us about an hours worth, plus some carefully selected “insider” clips, giving us the illusion that we are somehow getting a peak at something he did not want us to see. Two episodes ago, Lindsey missed the target that could have won her immunity. Mark Burnett could not control that. Brandon was edited to be trying to draw votes for the good of his alliance. Had he actually been voted off, we would probably never have seen that footage. Last week, which in reality was early August, the tribes merged, Teresa won immunity, and Clarence was voted out. Clarence was the obvious and logical choice for the rest of the tribe to target. Mark Burnett could not control the vote, he could only control what he chose to show us… Burnett knows who the final two are. He could not control the outcome of the game, but while editing the footage he had many options and many paths which he could lead us down to make Survivor interesting, entertaining and surprising. Last episode, Clarence was the obvious post merge bootee and Burnett had to find a way to conceal the obvious from his audience. Since there probably wasn’t any footage to accomplish it he had to conceal the merger itself, by having Jeff plant the seed of doubt and by not showing any footage confirming the merger. Thanks to Diane and Carl, it worked. Burnett knows who wins immunity next episode. He knows who gets voted off. He knows who the final two are. Burnett takes reality and edits it into the most interesting story he can tell.
So, let’s consider how he might have edited last weeks episode knowing who wins immunity and who gets voted out next episode…
1. MB knew that Boran had a 6-4 advantage going into TC and must have felt fairly sure of their alliance to vote out Clarence, leaving them with only a 5-4 advantage.
MB tried to hide the strong alliance by editing to show Kelly’s dislike of Lex, and Kim J. not liking being “told what to do”, regarding the vote for Clarence. In the end none of the Boran jumped ship. MB edited to try and create some doubt for the upcoming episode.
2. If a Samburu member gets voted out this coming episode…this follows the obvious game logic, MB would edit to create doubt that the obvious will occur and show the Samburu with a plan to survive. A good indication that they do not.
Previews show the Samburu recognizing that their days are numbered if they do not make a move at the upcoming TC… {Jeff Probst} ...And the ex-Samburu members concoct a plan. {Teresa} If we're going to make a move, it has to be this Tribal Council...
{Kim P} Right. {Teresa} ...It has to be. * An original Samburu works to pull over an original Boran to their side; the Boran tribe member shows interest. But more than likely the plan falls short.
3. MB knows who wins immunity. Regardless of whether they are a target or not, they will be edited as one to make their immunity more dramatic. So, whoever wins immunity next week will have been edited as a possible target last episode and during the upcoming episode…
Frank, who had evolved from the cold, unfeeling military guy, into a sensitive family man, has now mysteriously taken another turn to become the loner that doesn’t fit in… Teresa appeared from nowhere, to become the heroine who stood up to the new villan Lex, only to become the target of his “witch hunt”. Lex who was originally edited as the “guy who everyone liked” has now become the new villan, and the apparent target of the Samburu counter attack. Based on the editing, it appears that one of these three will win immunity this week, because they have been edited as targets.
4. MB knows who gets voted out next week. Last season “Mitchell’s interview” provided insights into behind the scenes. He mentioned that those contestants asked to do “confessional” interviews were often those considered by the producer to be likely targets at TC. Mitchell mentioned that if you were not asked for an interview, you felt “safer” than if you were, because the camera crews and staff were privy to all the conversations going on between tribe members and knew more than the contestaants themselves. They saw the big picture. The point being that an increase in the number of confessional interviews (increased face time) is often associated with an increased likelihood of being a boot target. Brandon seemed to have an increased amount of interview time, as did Theresa and Frank, with Brandon having several “confessionals” (up against the stone wall). Frank was edited as vulnerable and not fitting in. His editing was too blatantly misleading to consider him a viable target this upcoming week. Kim P. is still to underdeveloped to be going next week. That leaves Brandon or Teresa.
MB knows who gets voted out next week. Is it Brandon, whom he has quietly developed over the last few weeks in preparation for a boot this week, directing attention away from him by putting the spotlight on Lex’s “witch hunt”? Or is it Teresa, who’s predicament could not be concealled, so MB decided to edit her as a martyr and strengthen the image of Lex as the villan, recognizing that it would make for better story when he finally falls later in the story? Reading between the lines and behind the editing is the key to spoiling the storytellers story…  Krautboy
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landruajm 6040 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-24-01, 11:15 AM (EST)
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2. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
Krautboy's analysis is cogent and probably mostly right, so I'm not disputing the vast majority of it. The history of MB's editing is such that those portrayed as most likely to be targeted soon, aren't. He is certainly trying to misdirect spoilers--and other viewers--as to alliances and possibilities.However, I think it's not entirely true that MB can't control the outcome, as Krautboy says right up front. The history of game play shows that. Rules have changed on a whim, immunity challenges are designed to favor--or disfavor--certain players at key moments. E7 was a perfect example; an endurance-based challenge gave the less physically able players a fighting chance to win immunity, and one did. I'm only saying all this because I think that MB does exert a tremendous amount of influence over the outcome. His rules, his ref, his game. And while he can't actually control the outcome, the lengths to which he will go to try to "influence" it can't be understated. 
So much more than a sentient computer.
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janisella 698 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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11-24-01, 04:08 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
The reason I picked Frank to be booted was because I thought the IC looked like something Clarence would win and figured Frank was the next likeliest target (Clarence was going to be my pick for ep. 8). Unfortunately for MB and his editors, Clarence didn't win immunity and there was really no surprise at TC.
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Bungler 497 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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11-24-01, 01:17 PM (EST)
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5. "MB's mindgames" |
Krautboy --Not sure if this is even the appropriate topic to list this new discovery under, but after an EZ poster named momloveshercolby asked me about it, I looked into it. Early in Episode 7, Brandon was shown in a confessional saying how glad he was to be rid of Lindsey. This was pre-merge, and note the Samburu colors around his neck.
 Then, IC happens, merge happens, and we're suddenly back to a Brandon confessional. It's post-merge, but...what's this?...doesn't it look like the same exact scene? But now his colors are MotoMaji green. How'd that happen?
 It's obvious how it happened. EPMB is seriously screwing with this game. We can't even really trust our eyes, because he's manipulating things to a drastic degree this time around.
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diamond 2307 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model"
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11-24-01, 02:10 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: MB's mindgames" |
Bungler - I totally noticed this too. While it may be the first time he's gone so far as to actually change something (i.e., the buff color), there have been a number of occasions where I think he has used parts of the same confessionals in more than one episode. There have been a number of times where I've seen a confessional, and the person was dressed exactly the same, sitting in the same position, with the same background, as they were in a confessional from an earlier episode. I can't say for sure that any of the ones I'm thinking of were really the same (I haven't done a side-by-side comparison like you did), but would anyone realy be surprised if MB did this? Of course, doing this might not be a huge deal, but he is showing statements out of context and perhaps giving or implying meaning where it does not exist. I completely agree with the Krautboy's theory about MB using editing to suit his own purposes. One example that sticks out in my mind is the scene of Boran deciding who should go on the "quest." The only thing we saw was someone (Tom?) asking Ethan who he thought should go. Ethan said Tom, Lex, and Kelly. Since then, I've seen many people who think that Ethan alone was the one who made the decision, which is of course absurd. Obviously, there was far more discussion than that (and Kim J. confirmed it in her statement at tribal council), and most likely, everyone was given the opportunity to say who they thought should go. However, the only input we were shown was Ethan's. Maybe it was just done because there wasn't time to show us any more deliberation. Maybe it was done to try to paint Ethan as the decision maker (and he was also the one who came up with the idea to throw the challenge). Who knows? With so many hours of footage to choose from, MB can easily find and edit enough snippets to create whatever story he wants.
"One of the few consistent pleasures of "Survival," we reflect, comes with watching the loathsome contestants get hurt. Does that make us bad people?" - Jeff Stark, Salon.com
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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11-24-01, 04:02 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: MB's mindgames" |
Bungler, excellent find, you're the Vidcap King!The part in Brandon's hair, the shadows on the rocks, are all exactly the same. Amazing! This is a perfect example of MB manipulating what he shows us in an effort to control our perception of what really happened. He may have slipped up and given us a clue that he probably didn't expect us to catch! He didn't know we had Bungler on the team! Unfortunately I taped the wrong channel. Can someone provide a transcript of what Brandon said when he is shown wearing the green merge colors? Obviously MB went out of his way to make it appear that Brandon's comments were post-merge. So whatever it is that Brandon is saying is a red herring. It's a quote taken way out of context and used to mislead or conceal the real event that MB can't control. In addition, this can probably be considered a reliable spoiler because MB did not expect us to find it! Bungler, thank momloveshercolby for us... Krautboy
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Sam Buru 40 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-25-01, 10:29 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: MB's mindgames" |
Frank’s Confessionals in cronological order from the show1st- By the tree with Color Altered Yellow Buff around his neck
-Frank talks about the challenge being Individual or Group? (Adds no content to storyline) 2nd-By the tree with Green buff around Neck
-Franks talks about the Wagner family reunion, but your name is Smith 3rd-By the tree with the Green buff around Neck
-After returning to camp Frank didn’t want to stand around, so he gathered wood. 4th –By the tree with no buff, Camera moved right due to the angle of the branches with respect to the trees.
- After Elephant scene, Frank states that there are a few humans he wouldn’t interact with but animals yes. 5th – By the tree with green buff, same camera angle as 1 through 4.
- Frank talks about the Tribe name "moto java". 6th – By the tree with green buff around neck as in 5.
- The tribe may be saying "vote Frank off."
My contention is that Frank stated 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 all at the same time. I am looking at Frank's hat, the placement on his head, the hat strap angle across his ear, shadows, the placement of the buff, the angle that the two branches make a "v" shape with respect to the tree.
The point is to show MB's editing tricks. My bet is that upon review of the show, someone caught the colors on Brandon and Frank's buff being wrong. I think it is fairly easy to alter a color. Reality, or Altered Reality
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krampot 3 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "American Cancer Society Spokesperson"
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11-25-01, 01:43 AM (EST)
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17. "LOCATION" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-25-01 AT 01:44 AM (EST)copied from my post over at surviiivor.com regarding BRANDON's confessionals: One thing that really makes me raise an eyebrow is the logical location behind these interviews. Let's think about it. We know that Boran camp is a good distance (several miles) from Samburu. Interviews are most likely within a close walking distance (out of earshot) range.
The one with a red buff he would have been near Samburu. Then after they merged they used BORAN's camp. Obvious location inconsistency here. My guess would be that they had him put on a red buff to talk about how glad he was Lindsey is gone since that is best for the beginning of the episode. Theres some type of alteration going on. **Edited to clarify I am talking about Brandon
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Sam Buru 40 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-25-01, 08:21 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: MB's mindgames" |
Going back to Brandon's pictures by the rock cropping. Take a closer look the buff. Keep in mind each fold, the direction of the writing in each fold. This is the exact same buff, the color has been altered digitally. Frank's picture also has the buff color change. The detail with the twigs in the foreground, the placement of Frank, Frank's hat, etc with respect to the twigs would have to be the same. This would be a difficult to pull off by changing buffs. MB went through the trouble to modify the colors digitally, after the fact. I haven't looked at Frank's sequence, but Brandon's seems to be post merge. It depends if that rock cropping was a Samburu site or Boran, I think Boran. MB went back to change Brandon's red to get his "Lindsey's remarks" in pre-merge for the show. Krautboy - Excellent Post about MB editing!
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munson 1314 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beef Jerky Spokesperson"
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11-24-01, 01:47 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
I believe that MB edits the show for the weekly TV viewer, not the spoiling community, so, for what it's worth, I did a small sampling of friends and family who watch the show regularly but are unaware of boards and websites like this.I asked four fans who they thought was the next to be voted off based on what they saw in E7. All four named Frank as the most likely candidate for the boot in E8. The reasons were (1) Frank was an outcast in the merged tribe; (2) his "elephant dance" was bizarre; and (3) he's a member of the old Samburu. The editting of E7 did Frank no favors. When asked "What about Lex?", the response was interesting. He is seen as the leader of the old Boran in a very Rich sort of way. Kelly is well liked. KimP is still invisible. Tom is entertaining. Everyone is pulling for MamaKim to win the whole thing. The Teresa/Tina comparison is in full effect. I don't know if this reveals anything new, but if Krautboy is right about the intention behind the editting, Frank, as the obvious choice, is probably safe and may in fact win immunity in E8.
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MDSkinner 716 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Reality Show Commentator"
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11-24-01, 02:27 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
Fantastic post Kraut, and in my estimation it is dead on. I think that the key to this week in regards to spoiling is that we need to focus on the fact that it will be a Samburu that will be voted out and not Lex, which is who I believe MB would like us to think. As to who it will be, I also agree with your analysis. Kim P still has far too much development to be voted off, plus she is not a threat. Frank, is a possible threat, but he has been made the outsider, and the almost obvious choice. At this stage I may even still have to go with Frank, but I agree with Kraut that the editiing makes him TOO much of the obvious choice, and so much that he is not likely to go.So that leaves Teresa and Brandon, and if I were to put hig money on it right now, Teresa would be my choice. She has proven herself to be a threat, and she is strong of mind as well as body(more so than Brandon in my estimation). She may very well be the target.
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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11-27-01, 07:40 PM (EST)
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21. "Editing of Frank" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-27-01 AT 08:04 PM (EST)MDSkinner: Found another example that seems to support the hypothesis we've been discussing... Frank, is
>a possible threat, but he
>has been made the outsider,
>and the almost obvious choice.
> At this stage
>I may even still have
>to go with Frank, but
>I agree with Kraut that
>the editiing makes him TOO
>much of the obvious choice,
>and so much that he
>is not likely to go.
> The transcripts from survivor insider show that although Frank was edited as an outsider, he was really very much apart of the "I Never" conversation. From Survivor Central, here is part of the conversation: I NEVER-PART 2- SEX ON A TRAIN: (merged tribe) KimJ: Very good.
Teresa: Frank?
Frank: Forgive me for steering this ship back on course, but I’ve never forgotten to tell the three people in my life on a daily basis that I have loved them.
Kelly: Aw, I forget that all the time. That sucks.
Lex: Oh, I never forget that. About a hundred times a day.
Kelly: I need to do that more.
Ethan: Tom, I love you. (laughter)
Tom: I knew that.
Kelly: Tom, I love you too
Tom: That’s the reason I went over to Brandon’s camp.
KimJ: I love you too.
Tom: I was worried about him. (Ethan)
Brandon: I’m safer than him.
Tom: Exactly right!
Kelly: I’ve got a good one, and this is one we haven’t done.
Brandon: We had very little cuddle time. Very little.
Tom: Kim hogs you. I think me and you’d have gotten closer if it hadn’t been for her.
KimP: (whining) Well.......I’m sorry!
Brandon: Kim’s an evil woman. She was stepping in...
Kelly: OK! Kim, I’ve never told a lie!
Brandon: To get a$$?
Tom: (muttering) Bullsh!t......
Kelly: Oh Come ON Tom!
Tom: I mean, hell......
Brandon: That’s so stupid; everybody has!
Clarence: I once told a girl I played for the Pistons.
(girls scream)
Tom: I would have told her I played for the Pistons.
Brandon: I think I was an astronaut once, for God's sake. I think everybody does.
KimP: An astronaut?
Brandon: I may have had the costume.
Tom: I told a woman I was going on Survivor just to.....
Kelly: Yeah, right.
Tom: This old lady--it still didn’t work!
Lex: Your wife doesn’t count.
Tom: It still didn’t work. She said, “In your dreams thar, fat boy!”
(Clarence says something. I can’t understand him-something to Brandon maybe about opening a bottle?)
KimP: I’ve never had sex for money.
KimJ: Oh, that’s great. Me neither........drinks, but not money...
Kim P: Yeah......drinks
KimJ: That’s not money.
Frank: Come on. A good bartender anticipates. Brandon! A good bartender anticipates
(I think they are goading him to open another)
Brandon: Am I getting paid here?? I didn’t think so.
Tom: (to KimP) You little witch you! I let that hog lay with you every night over there!
KimJ: Just because she doesn’t need the cash.
Tom: That’s what I was saying. Brandon was wallering all over (making panting noises)
Kelly: Let’s change it to if you’ve done it, then raise your hand.
KimJ: Go to the 2s ...I HAVE.
Frank: I have had sex with a stranger on a train from Muenchen to Treeburg (sp?) A Czechoslovakian woman that I thought I was in a James Bond movie because I had nuclear top-secret security clearance.
Lex: I’ve sure never done that!
Frank: She was in a red dress which was like that movie, The Lady in Red
KimJ: Really.......
Frank: Never asked any questions. She said she worked in a law practice.
Kelly: Wow!
Frank: That’s always been a memory.
It seems obvious that MB was very deliberate in his editing to show Frank as an outsider and logical target, when in reality he fit in very well and was well liked (as noted in Clarences comments from his on-line chat:
"Brandon_Rocks: Was Frank really that much of an outcast from the rest of the group?
Survivor Clarence: Again, I can only say how I felt because I didn't really spend too much time talking about Frank. He didn't seem like an outcast from my point of view. He's just a guy who knew what he stood for and a guy who knew what he was willing to compromise on or not compromise in terms of his morals and at times just didn't have a very popular opinion. While he was part of new Boran we never had a single issue with him. I liked him personally." MB's editing is trying to paint a misleading picture of Frank on the outside, not long for the tribe, but reality is most likely quite different... (Edited to add Clarences' on-line chat comments.) Krautboy
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Lightmage81 225 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Network TV Show Guest Star"
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11-28-01, 08:19 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Editing of Frank" |
Not sure about this but I'm sure Brandon said something (in Tribal Council) about Frank cracking jokes and he (brandi) nearly fell over. (or sumthin like that)I believe this must have occured during the "I Never" game... More edvidence of MB editing. Anyway:
with MB out of town filming survivor4, he can focus little attention on his well known "on the fly" editing (though I;m sure he left a team of little Marks) till at least late Dec. That would leave about 3 or 4 episodes left... IMHO this could mean that either the next few episodes are pretty boring or MB is one fooking smart bast@rd who thought of all this B4 he left...... flame away......
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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11-29-01, 03:31 AM (EST)
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31. "EDITING FROM TAHITI" |
>
>Anyway:
>with MB out of town filming
>survivor4, he can focus little
>attention on his well known
>"on the fly" editing (though
>I;m sure he left a
>team of little Marks) till
>at least late Dec. That
>would leave about 3 or
>4 episodes left...
>
>IMHO this could mean that either
>the next few episodes are
>pretty boring or MB is
>one fooking smart bast@rd who
>thought of all this B4
>he left......
>
>flame away......
Nay, nay, not so, kind sir. MB has the editing of all this planned down to almost the MINUTEST detail, before he went.(He knows what footage he has to work with, after all, and who goes where, when and how everything has to be structured to keep it interesting.) No, no, MB leaves NOTHING this important to chance. There is the hand of a master auteur, albeit a video one, behind all this. This is also one of the reason why we all find it so fascinating. We're dealing with ONE person's personal vision here, and it's so rare in the COMMITTEE atmosphere of TV and Film today that we find it shocking, and refreshing, because it's so engaging. This is also the way Alfred Hitchcock used to work. The editing, the shots, were crucial. I wouldn't be surprised if he even went so far as story-boarding every shot, the way Hitchcock did. That's how you create suspence on film.
Also, you can edit a show on an computer in Tahiti, and have it hooked up to his main editing suite in LA or New York, or whereever it is. Everything can be emailed anywhere, including and especially film editing instructions. It's called a Paper Edit, but I'm sure MB POURS over the footage on his own Avid in Tahiti and is in constant touch with his inner circle of editors back here. And views all of it every week. In Tahiti, he's merely overseeing challenges, etc. It's easier and less time-consuming than the editing, if you're doing it right. And MB has a LARGE and very well paid staff to do all this. Someday some one will write a graduate thesis on the Editing of Survivor, just like the did with Hitchcock's minutiae.
His editing skill is one of his most brilliant talents, and he's NOT going to delegate that responsiblity to anyone, megalomaniac that he is. And I wouldn't either, if I were him.
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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11-24-01, 09:52 PM (EST)
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15. "CBS Poll..." |
A poll on the official CBS site asks the following questio:Who is more likely to be voted out sooner?
Lex--he could be seen as a threat 47.21%
Brandon--he has been targeted before 28.38%
Frank--he has been called an "outsider" 24.42% Total Votes: 15732 Interesting that Theresa is not listed as one of the "voted out" choices!? Another example of MB and CBS trying to influence the perceptions of the viewing audience, and steer them away from Teresa? Krautboy
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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11-25-01, 11:56 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: CBS Poll..." |
I totally agree, KBoy! Excellent editing analysis! Congrats to all. Brandon is symbolically seen between a ROCK and a hard place. He looks like he is about to be beheaded. And he probably is, soon. He certainly looks tortured and in jeopardy.
The editing in this show is superb. It's the main tool MB has to keep us involved, keep it interesing, keep us guessing. He HAS to throw suspicion on others, otherwise this all could be SOOOO boring. The editing is his paintbrush as he fills in his master-canvass.
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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11-28-01, 07:13 PM (EST)
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29. "SurvivorFever Boot Poll" |
MB's strategy is working...Here is the current poll from SurvivorFever: Choose the next contestant to be voted out of their tribe:
Total Voters: 1416
Brandon 401 (28.3%)
Ethan 22 (1.6%)
Frank 298 (21.0%)
Kelly 14 (1.0%)
Kim J. 21 (1.5%)
Kim P. 15 (1.1%)
Lex 479 (33.8%)
Teresa 142 (10.0%)
Tom 25 (1.8%)
Lex, Brandon and Frank lead the voting. Just the way MB's CBS Poll has led the ordinary viewer to vote... Krautboy
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I_AM_HE 6123 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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11-28-01, 05:05 PM (EST)
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28. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
LAST EDITED ON 11-28-01 AT 07:23 PM (EST)great post Krautboy! and interesting points all, about Teresa's editing. i really had her only about 5th in my likely target list Brandon, Lex, and Frank all tied, but i also thought the poll question may indicate all three are safe i also see Kelly as a potential target, if she has slipped at all and shown her "I'm a b!tch" side. though realistically not this week. they have to trust her or else go into a tie where they have two members with more votes than any of the Samburus I had Teresa next, based on combination of likeability/ex-Samburu/challenge factor, but she really probably should be ahead of Kelly, if not the triumvirate...you all have made me sufficiently worried about the chances of her being booted next  Kim P would be 6th as ex-Samboohoo Tom and Ethan probably are about the same, as challenge threats, plus potentially in bad shape if there's a coup against Lex. but Old Boran is indeed probably stronger than the editing shows (though i still don't trust Kelly at all) Kim J definately has the "Stone Cold Lock to be around Next Episode" title
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diamond 2307 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Seventeen Magazine Model"
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11-30-01, 00:45 AM (EST)
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32. "More evidence of manipulative editing" |
I was rewatching the last episode (the last real episode), and something caught my eye. I don't think this has any spoiler value, at least not with respect to the scene in question, but it is really bothering me that this shows how heavily this show is edited to convey whatever MB wants. During the setup for the arm-raising-water-bucket challenge, when JP is explaining the merge and the challenge, the footage of the survivors reacting is spliced together completely out of order. When the survivors first arrive, Brandon has his red buff around his neck. Then JP tells them they are merging and they all presumably take off their old buffs (which we don't see). As the green buffs are handed out, there's a shot of Kelly, Brandon, and Kim P. handling the new buffs, presumably to put them on. Okay so far. A few seconds later, though, we see Kelly, Brandon, and Kim P. again (the shot where Kelly does her brief wiggling-two-thumbs-up dance move). In this shot, the buffs have mysteriously vanished. I suppose they could have stuffed them in their pockets or something, but I really don't think so. Right after this, we see a wide group shot of everyone, and Brandon clearly has his green buff around his neck, while Kelly has hers in her hands again. JP starts explaining the challenge, and suddenly there's a full-screen shot of Brandon wearing his red buff again (as JP is saying "the slightest movement will bring the bucket over"). How sloppy are these editors that they go to the trouble of splicing in this shot and they don't even notice that hey, it's the wrong color?? Soon after this is another wide shot of everyone, and Brandon's back to the green buff as they all go to take their places for the challenge. So who cares about this? Well, I know that MB uses editing liberally to create the story. That's fine (as Kelly would say). However, I have always at least thought that in any particular scene, if someone is talking, that whatever else we see (like other people's reactions) is continuous and happening in "real time." For example, when JP says something, and we see a shot of someone reacting, I have assumed they are reacting to what he just said. Based on the scene I described above, even this assumption is wrong. As I said, in the scene I described, it doesn't tell us much. All I think MB was trying to do was create a little drama (notice I said "try," since he wasn't too successful) in a stunningly boring episode. The main thing that really bugs me is that I feel so manipulated. diamond
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Sam Buru 40 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Beauty Pageant Celebrity Judge"
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11-30-01, 09:06 AM (EST)
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33. "RE: More evidence of manipulative editing" |
I guess MB has always pulled this manipulative editing on us. This episode with the merge just highlites things due to the buff colors. It is like EPMB needs to create an alternate reality he hopes is more interesting that reality. Seems like he is between a rock and a hard place on S3. I think that the show peaked at Episode 5, and MB pulled the Twist without realizing the consequences later on in the show. Silas was going to get it! The Malliance just didn't have the numbers to pull it off in the long run. Did you notice how big of an idiot Clarence was portrayed last night? Why didn't MB show that stuff earlier? Because we would have known how much Clarence was really on the chopping block at the merge. Just after the job on Clarence, MB makes Frank look like a wild man with the antlers. Hummm, Frank is still there. Krautboy, lets look at this effect on the SF poll. This should steer more people to Frank. Yep, Teresa is a gonner!
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Krautboy 2750 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Howard Stern Show Guest"
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12-01-01, 06:29 PM (EST)
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34. "Lex's Torch?" |
 This image has been discussed in great detail in its own thread but I wanted to add it as another example of MBs editing... Burnett cannot control who wins immunity. He knows who won immunity and he wants us to think Lex wins rather than the person who actually did. That person has probably been edited as a target for the upcoming episode, because it will make the IC more dramatic when they win. More evidence of MB steering the viewer away from expecting a Frank IC win by carefully selecting what he shows us and what he doesn't... Krautboy
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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12-01-01, 08:46 PM (EST)
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35. " Kim's torch is Lex's Torch?" |
Kboy! Beautifully detailed vid cap. So beatiful and detailed in fact, I can see an "IM" at the bottom of the torch. Could this be "KIM"? Could this be Kim's torch? Her name is on it? So it isn't Lex's torch after all! But which Kim is it? Mamakim or Babykim? And what is Lex's skull doing on it? Or is this just another artful EPMN set-up? It's a stunning visual, but what does it mean? Did one of the Kims have a skull on theirs, too?
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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12-02-01, 02:24 AM (EST)
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37. "Who's in the front seat of the truck?" |
Abso-f***ing-loot-ly fantastic vid cap analysis!! Of course! ANOTHER red herring!?! Of course! Wouldn't you think EPM had better things to do than to put every one through all this! I'm glad you enjoy doing it, though. It looks like a tremendous amount of work, but we're all grateful for you showing us the REDDEST of the Herrings! Ever! I mean, the "IM" is probably just saying "IMMUNITY" Like, hang the necklace over here, kids. So who wins Immunity? There's seems to be a ground swell over at SS for Brandon to win the Reward, but the IC?
BTW somebody, maybe it was you, blew up the window of the truck a gazillion times to reveal what looks like Brandon and a small blonde woman in a sports bra(Kelly? Kim Jay?)in the front seat. Or is this ANOTHER red herring, too?
I think I'll change my name to Rose Red Herring!
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dabo 26942 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-03-01, 01:13 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: Lex's Torch?" |
In my opinion, this clip goes to Lex's "witch hunt" because the person he's after (whether or not he finds her) is Teresa, the immunity winner in episode 7 who voted for Lex in order to keep her word to Clarence. If you watch episode 7, after Teresa won immunity Lex (who hadn't previously been in the same tribe with Teresa) not only gave her a big victory hug, but also walked back to camp arm-in-arm with Teresa, like thay were old pals or something. His politicking has been geared to being important and valuable (as opposed to likeable), and his getting close to Teresa post-merge was an attempt to monopolize a player with whom he had previously had no contact. He may not, then, suspect his own mistake, but ultimately his "witch hunt" is a dumb idea anyway, no matter who goes (assuming it isn't Lex), if they think he was responsible that's one vote from a jurist he's likely not to receive in the end. "If all machines were to be annihilated at one moment, so that not a knife nor lever nor rag of clothing nor anything whatsoever were left to man but his bare body alone that he was born with, and if all knowledge of mechanical laws were taken from him so that he could make no more machines, and all machine-made food destroyed so that the race of man should be left as it were naked upon a desert island, we should become extinct in six weeks. A few miserable individuals might linger, but even these in a year or two would become worse than monkeys." (Samuel Butler, "Erewhon")
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-03-01, 04:18 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
Krautboy,
Sorry I missed the chance to read this before, but the analysis in your opening post is just excellent. I especially like the idea that the person who will next win IC gets edited as the next victim, because there is no way really to predict in advance who wins the individual IC's, other than a guess based on prior editing.I would say: put your method for guessing the bootee side by side with good old common sense as to who ought to go. By common sense I don't mean according to the quotes and clips we've been directed to pick up on. I mean the basic situation in the camp. Time and again the players have failed to do any dramatic alliance switching; they tend to go with the easy, obvious votes. We tend to forget how hard it is for them to confer properly about voting, and how they need to be SURE of a voting majority going into TC; therefore people who have voted together reliably in the past tend to trust each other and not to jump ship. About the digitally altered colors--I am not at all shocked.
I am surprised though that people are talking about Burnett editing Survivor Africa from Tahiti. In Burnett's Survivor One book, he talks about editing as the footage comes in, and trying it out with the crew to see if it feels right to them. I've assumed he still does much of the editing before he knows the final outcome--trying to read and capture the story in the field as it unfolds. OF COURSE he does the final editing in the studio. He has to go back and tweak it somewhat once he knows how it ends up, but I would think it was all done before the show aired its first episode. The previews may be finalized closer to air date. It would be interesting to know on both counts. The Insider Clips must have been chosen from rejected footage after the final edits. Those choices were doubtless finely calculated to appear to give alliance info while hiding some major discussions. Back to the actual show: my theory is that MB has a philosopy that he's MORE likely to give the overall outcome away if he waits until he knows how it shakes out. If he himself doesn't know, then his unconscious won't have the means to cause a slip up. Yes, I think he believes in Freudian slips of the unconscious, very much so, and tries to defend against them. This is the reason he's put out for the IMO lame lockbox and hiding the winner from himself, and I would propose he would adhere to the same philosophy for his rough edit. Let his gut be his guide about what to show to tell the story as he is there in the midst of it. Also, think about his time management needs. When does he have a big block of time to edit Survivor Africa? While he's shooting it, and not while he's preparing to shoot in Tahiti or actually on the new location. I don't envision MB throwing it together each week after he hears the response over the last episode. The thing is put together as a package ASAP while he's immersed in it, and then he goes off to immerse himself in next project, is my guess. The guy has a lot to do and little time. Right or wrong, my theory only adds support to your idea that each episode is edited to obfuscate the following episode, as there would be enough lag time in the field. Anyway, I have one additional theory about previews and the bootee--which I have posted before but will propose again: there will be a good shot of the bootee in the preview. The shot will probably not be setting them up as a target--although Linda's a notable exception, but there will be something to bring that player to the public's consciousness--even a simple close-up shot of them smiling or making a funny face. I notice some good shots of Teresa in this preview. 
With every mistake, we must surely be learning--George Harrison
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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12-03-01, 10:50 AM (EST)
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42. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
>Time and again the players have
>failed to do any dramatic
>alliance switching; they tend to
>go with the easy, obvious
>votes. We tend to
>forget how hard it is
>for them to confer properly
>about voting, and how they
>need to be SURE of
>a voting majority going into
>TC; therefore people who have
>voted together reliably in the
>past tend to trust each
>other and not to jump
>ship. Ah!OFG, That was BEFORE "Le Twist" made everything a lot more, well, twisted. I don't think old rules apply in this new, "improved" version of the game. Did the Twist change ANYthing really? It busted up the Playskool-ers, but two of them are still there and doing very well. The Twist made it a new game with new rules, and perhaps, a different outcome. Evidently, he's just pulled this again in Nuku Hiva(see Survivor News) >In Burnett's Survivor One book, he
>talks about editing as the
>footage comes in, and trying
>it out with the crew
>to see if it feels
>right to them. I've
>assumed he still does much
>of the editing before he
>knows the final outcome--trying to
>read and capture the story
>in the field as it
>unfolds. Well, as someone who edits a weekly television, let me explain a couple of things about editing. When I have a LONG series of shows to edit, like I do when I go on location to Europe or something, and when I return and I have TONS of footage that I have to shape into say, nine programs, I HAVE to have an overall edit plan sketched out, otherwise it's absolute chaos. Who's on which program. What to emphasize in what episode. Who gets the emphasis. The inverted pyramid we all learned in journalism school still applies. Whoever you feature UP FRONT, Out Front, will get the lion's share of the attention,like on the first episode of the series. Unfortunately, Bush pre-empted the all important first episode and threw all of MB's well-laid plans into a cocked hat. Most Americans missed this episode where all the characters are carefully introduced. Didn't MB say somewhere that the clue to who the winner is was in the first three(or was it five?) minutes? I watch ALLL of my unedited, raw footage over and over until I can map out a rough outline of say, there will be nine episodes, or eight. Within this outline, which you HAVE to pretty much stick to, or your lost, there is very little room for manuevering, but there is some. Like for instance after Sept.11, and the response to some very funny, upbeat shows that started airing, I EXPANDED that some footage to highlight a particular performer who was coming over very strongly and who the viewers were responding to, and wanted to see more of. Also, people wanted to laugh and enjoy themselves at that time, and be diverted, so I turned up the comedy. I thought I was finishing NINE episodes of this recent sojourn, but then towards the end, my staff (and perhaps the viewers, too) wanted an end to this particular series, so it's coming in at eight episodes this week, not nine, as I had anticipated. Now, MB has a much more rigid plot-line spinning out, and has a lot more footage, god knows, than I do, to work with, but I can see him saying. like with Linda,"Emphasize her 'Mother Africa' rants. They make her look crazy and a little dangerous.' He has to create character as well as drama, but then we all do.
And he'll map out an outline of who he's emphasizing and WHEN.
Like in S2, he made a CONSCIOUS decision to hide TINA almost completely in the editing. No episode focused on her, ever. Which I always thought a little odd, but then, of course, he was saving her to the end,and also, of course, her and Colby's alliance.
That actually is a brilliant choice, in my book, because he made her look at once bland, and also, not important, and also mysterious. We never really knew that she was bossing everybody around and masterminding everything and that everybody was running to HER for decisions. I think Jerri confirmed this in an interview. Also, MB has this habit of focusing on the next bootee on the show BEFORE they actually go. Like Frank has been, and Teresa really hasn't, in the last couple of episodes.
He also has to make the votes and the story make sense. That's why we're seeing Lex developed differently now because he's getting votes. And that has to explained. Like I know a lot of people felt cheated by the first bootee in S2, Debb. We didn't understand, initially, why she got it in the neck, and so quickly.
And as I said before, elsewhere, S3 is being edited like S2 with the MOST important players and alliances NOT being shown. Like for instance, Ethan. In the recap, he almost looked like he had been voted out already. Which, Tina-like, is A GOOD sign. Of course, the same could be said for Kim Pee, but I think her lack of development is because she's basically, well, she's being seen to be not that smart. OR IS SHE? Elizabeth and Amber didn't really emerge until the merge, either. Also, MB is EXCELLENT in making us shift our responses, again with the editing. We were supposed to find the Mallwretches hateful, but now, in the last episode the remaining two, esp. Brandon, are being made to seem EXTREMELY sympathetic. Same with nice guy Lex SUDDENLY turning into Osama Ben Lexy. Also, MB has a TON of footage, and not that much air time, really, to convey A LOT of story. So therefore anything he does include, like, for instance, Tom's horniness, MAY have a very strong reason for being there other than comic relief. It may become a VERY important part of the PLOT, if say, his infatuation with Teresa leads to Dinner, a Movie and Betrayal. His or hers? >OF COURSE he does the final
>editing in the studio.
>He has to go back
>and tweak it somewhat once
>he knows how it ends
>up, but I would think
>it was all done before
>the show aired its first
>episode. That's right.
The previews may
>be finalized closer to air
>date. It would be
>interesting to know on both
>counts.
>
>The Insider Clips must have been
>chosen from rejected footage after
>the final edits. Those
>choices were doubtless finely calculated
>to appear to give alliance
>info while hiding some major
>discussions.
>
>Back to the actual show: my
>theory is that MB has
>a philosopy that he's MORE
>likely to give the overall
>outcome away if he waits
>until he knows how it
>shakes out. If he
>himself doesn't know, then his
>unconscious won't have the means
>to cause a slip up.
> Yes, I think he
>believes in Freudian slips of
>the unconscious, very much so,
>and tries to defend against
>them.
I don't buy this at all. Not with the way he practically edited Tina out of the first episode of E2 completely. Also, by doing this he confounded one of the primary rules of journalism, the inverted pyramid. You put the most important "hook" of the piece in the first sentence. You put it first. Also, in fiction writing, say, a novel, you INTRODUCE all your characters. However, in MYSTERY writing, you hide all the clues in plain sight, which is what he did with Tina. Her non-entry into S2 on the first episode laid the ground work for how everyone(me included) felt about her - FOR A LONG TIME. The editing said, "She's a soccer mom. She's not important. Don't pay any attention to her, because we're certainly not." The focus was on the colorful Alpha males, Colby, Keith, Mike, and also of course, the Joan Collins of Reality TV, Jerri Manthey.
Tina's editing was pure Agatha Christie. The least likely suspect. The butler did it. And she sure did. Come to think of it this may be why he's hidden Teresa so completely up until now. Revealing her metallic Southern accent, her strength, her smarts, her likeablility facter, her athleticism would have given too much away too early. He's got ANOTHER Tina on his hands, and hey, maybe she wins this one, too! It's deja vu all over again.
> The guy has a
>lot to do and little
>time. I would think he may be as much as month to six weeks ahead, or in his case, more. Most weekly network TV shows are shot about that far ahead.
Also, screentime is the most valuable thing a producer/director/editor can give to a "peformer". Vis a vis, the tremendous amount of footage he gave to last week's bootee, Clarence, who he clearly hoped would win. All that face-time and now he's gone... >Right or wrong, my theory only
>adds support to your idea
>that each episode is edited
>to obfuscate the following episode,
>as there would be enough
>lag time in the field.
>
> Yes. >Anyway, I have one additional theory
>about previews and the bootee--which
>I have posted before but
>will propose again: there will
>be a good shot of
>the bootee in the preview.
>
>
>The shot will probably not be
>setting them up as a
>target--although Linda's a notable exception,
>but there will be something
>to bring that player to
>the public's consciousness--even a simple
>close-up shot of them smiling
>or making a funny face.
>
FRANK.
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
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12-03-01, 02:26 PM (EST)
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46. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
Rose Red,
Thanks for sharing your professional editing experience!I have a few scattered comments. Voting before and after the twist:
The Samburu post-twist vote demonstrated what I was saying. The Old Boran knew they could rely on each other to vote as they promised when they got to TC. They didn't trust Lindsey. They were right not to trust her. Nobody jumped ship with their votes as a result of the twist. The twist gave Frank and Teresa the new ability to take out Silas, but they always wanted to do that. >>Didn't MB say somewhere that the clue to who the winner is was in the first three(or was it five?) minutes? No, he said the first few minutes were the best beginning ever and we would know Survivor, the show, was BACK when we saw it. LOL, not too many agreed. Jeff said the first bootee got their face time and wouldn't be hard to guess. That was accurate. My remarks about Burnett keeping knowledge from himself were based on his comments about how he couldn't stand being on edge about revealing the known winner during S1, so he decided to allow himself some ignorance in S2. He DID work on the editing while the show was shooting in S1. He talks a lot in his book about trying to get the feel right, there on Pulau Tiga (of course he is more experienced now). He did not just shoot it all and then take it back to the States. He had the first episode essentially done when Kelly won RC at the Malay bar--although I think Jeff only showed her the opening. If you saw the Early Show tour of the production facility in Kenya, it was very sophisticated, and I therefore think the editing process starts while the show is being shot. I think (from reading Burnett's book) that Burnett has a strong sense of the "spirit of place" and uses being on location as a way of finding the essence of his project. Tina--
I agree that he edits as with a mystery piece. He would have given away the show by featuring her strongly in the first episode, simply because she didn't act to earn prominence right away. I also agree that MB hid the strength of her alliance with Colby, although several people on this board figured it out. Apart from not knowing whether she and Colby had agreed to keep each other in the Final 2 instead of going against Keith--Tina was obvious to me starting with Maralyn's boot. When she said "Let the Games Begin" at Mitchell's boot, Ep 4, I had her pegged as one of the Final 2 (assuming Kucha didn't dominate the merge). Post merge I thought it was very obvious Tina was running the show. Yes, Burnett softened her leadership with the editing, but I and others (at least on Spoilers) could see it. Teresa, on the other hand, remained practically a non-entity until Ep. 7, more like Nick and Amber--both of whom flew UTR and then never really made an impact. If Teresa goes to the end, then Burnett has risen to a whole new level of hiding the major players. I agree that Burnett has hidden where the core loyalties lie in Boran because that information would take away a mystery central to how the game ends. Your information was really interesting and I hope I don't seem to be totally disagreeing; I found most of what you said persuasive and all of it educational.
With every mistake, we must surely be learning--George Harrison
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Outfrontgirl 6830 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Playboy Centerfold"
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12-03-01, 01:43 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
zzz,
>>I find this running debate between OFG and Rose quite interesting. You have each staked out a position whether Teresa or Frank goes this weekNot so, where I'm concerned. My position isn't that Teresa for sure goes this week. I think it could be either Teresa, Frank, or even Brandon (based on face time). My argument is that they would be much smarter to boot Teresa than Frank, because in reality she is the bigger long-term threat, and that they have enough information to perceive that if they're looking clearly. Rose Red has just given a good argument that Teresa really is a threat, ala Tina, but one that may get by them. Will they be smart enough to recognize that in time? I'm not laying any bets based on their perceptive abilities. I'll probably vote for Teresa this week for the personal reason that it would make me mad at myself to miss her the week she goes after being wrong on her 3 times already, but that's hardly an argument I'd use to try to convince anyone else.
With every mistake, we must surely be learning--George Harrison
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Rose Red 419 desperate attention whore postings
DAW Level: "Daytime Soap Guest Star"
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12-03-01, 05:36 PM (EST)
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48. "RE: What's behind the editing?" |
Thank you OFG and zzz,
This is more stimulating than most of the award panels I have to sit on as a critic! I can't name the organizations, but they have list=serves that aren't NEARLY as intelligent or as thought-provoking as this board is. And they're supposed to be. The hilarious name notwithstanding.SurvivorBlows, Lol.YES, Mark Burnett's editing of the show, as fellow professional, every week. leaves me gasping. How that get all that on camera, and all that mumbling and whispering. Almost IMPOSSIBLE to pick up clearly on the best of mikes. Well, the did win an Emmy for Sound Editing. Of course, they have state of the art equipment in every respect. The editing is like his paint strokes,if he were a painter. And, yes, I'm all for Frank going this week, and the antlers he rode in on. And I'm going to go even one step further in my hypothesis. He was SOOOOO successful at hiding Tina last year that he's upped the ante and is now LEAVING OUT IMPORTANT PLAYERS and information at perhaps an alarmingly high rate - ALMOST COMPLETELY. Some people may think that he's left out TOOO much, and that's why some people find this series dull. I find it just as fascinating as ever, present companies insights providing an even greater.ongoing depth. I bet MB reads these boards more than we do! Hi, Marky Mark! Thanks for keeping us guessing! And here's to your idol(I'm guessing)the late Dame Agatha Christie!
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p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e - p l a c e h o l d e r t e x t g o e s h e r e -
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